071. Olivia Herrick: Choosing to Keep Your Small Business Small

Life as a small business owner is anything but predictable. Clients come and go, markets shift, seasons of life happen, and plans change.

Olivia Herrick is a graphic designer and owner of Olivia Herrick Design, specializing in logo, golf, print, and packaging design. In this interview, she shares how staying open to change allowed her to grow in unexpected ways and why choosing to keep her small business small made the most sense for her.

While the business world associates growth with success, Olivia shares how growing her business with a different vision of success has made all the difference. 

WILDFLOWER SHOWNOTES : shannaskidmore.com/olivia-herrick

📌 RESOURCES MENTIONED:

Olivia’s Childrens Book “Good Morning, World”
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Transcript

Olivia (00:00):

When I got out of college and got my first salary, I thought it was amazing. When I left my nonprofit job, I was making $50,000. I thought that was the most money I was ever going to make as a graphic designer, and now it's just insatiable. Is there ever enough? So I'm kind of starting to figure out that I can make lots and lots and lots of money, but at what cost?

Shanna (00:23):

You are listening to Consider the Wildflowers the podcast episode 71. Life as a small business owner is anything but predictable. Clients come and go. Markets shifts, seasons of life happen and plans change. Olivia Herrick is a graphic designer and owner of Olivia Herrick Design specializing in logo, golf, print, and packaging design. In this interview, she shares how staying open to change allowed her to grow in unexpected ways and why choosing to keep her small business small made the most sense for her. While the business world associates growth with success, Olivia shares how growing her business with a different vision of success has made all the difference. If you dig professional bios, here goes. Olivia Herrick is a Minnesota based designer and educator who is best known for her vibrant and energetic design work. Okay, formal introduction's over, let's dive in. Hey, it's Shanna and this is Consider the Wildflowers, the podcast.

(01:14):

For the past 15 plus years, I've had the honor to hear thousands of stories from entrepreneurs around the world. As a former Fortune 100 financial advisor turned business consultant, I have a unique opportunity to see the reel. Behind the highlight reel. I'm talking profit and loss statements, unpaid taxes, moments of burnout, and those of utter victory. Or as my husband says, the content everyone is wondering but not many are talking about. And now I'm bringing these private conversations to you. Here are the untold stories of how industry leaders, founders, and up and coming entrepreneurs got their start, the experiences that shaped them and the journey to building the brands they have today. Stories that will inspire and reignite encourage to redefine success and build a life in business on your own terms. Welcome Wildflower. I'm so glad you're here. Hi Olivia. Welcome to the show.

Olivia (02:01):

Hello. Thank you so much for having me.

Shanna (02:03):

We're going to have so much fun. We're going to have so much fun.

Olivia (02:05):

I'm extremely excited.

Shanna (02:07):

I can't wait to, okay, so I was saying before we hit record, like I a am a big fan of your work. B did not realize you have a book, so I just found it on Amazon. So excited, so many things. But just as a side note before we really get into this whole story you asked me about quitting social media and document it. So side note, I did quit in 2017. I did not document it very well. I do want to document it though, because now I get asked about it so much and I've spoken on so many podcasts about it, but it made me laugh and we can cut this out, Olivia, if you don't want to share it later, but right now my Instagram, I think is technically up. It's live because one of the gals on my team, we got denied for that it to know it or whatever that is.

(02:54):

We got denied by Target and I was like, y'all, I just want to share my target pillows, get paid commission on this. All right. So they were doing this experiment of turning back on my Instagram. Anyways, we got approved for Amazon and Target. So I saw when I was looking at your stuff this morning, prepping for our call, I saw you wrote on Instagram I think this morning. Is anyone else over the internet? Or maybe you did it yesterday and it made me laugh so hard because you were asking me about it before we hit record. So I was like, this is going to be a fun chat.

Olivia (03:26):

Yeah, I literally could not be better timing. Yeah, I post that. I mean I've been feeling that in my heart I think for a couple of weeks, but last night I just bubbled over. I was like, Hey, is anyone else kind of tired of all this? And I probably got, I mean, it's certifiably the most dms I've ever received at one time. There've got to be thousands of people who feel the same way. So I guess it makes me feel better that I'm not alone, but sorry that we're all kind of navigating the same tech burnout.

Shanna (03:57):

Yeah, I just want to talk about this so much. Oh, this is so big. I just did my annual survey with my audience and one of my questions is what are you totally over? And I still get to this day, and I always tell people I did not quit Instagram because I believe Instagram is the enemy. So I always want to preface that because I think it's done a lot of good for small businesses, but I still think people wish that it wasn't so needed in business.

Olivia (04:27):

For me, it's the pace I have made some of my best friends in my entire life through social media and moments where I felt so alone, I found people experiencing the same thing and felt so affirmed. There have been so many wonderful things to come from it for me. I think right now what I'm feeling is just the rapid fire nature of it. It's difficult for me to shut off and return to the pace of the regular world just looking out the window. My brain is so used to this sort of rapid fire mini attention span that we've all kind of been conditioned to have.

Shanna (05:06):

Yeah. Oh, this is so good. Olivia. Hi. Welcome. I mean, this is going to be such a good chat. I have followed your design work for years. I think you are. So you're on my dream list to work with. But for those who may not know, and we did a quick introduction before, but will you just say hello, who you are, what you do, and then we're going to kind of go back to life before business?

Olivia (05:30):

Yeah, absolutely. So I am Olivia Herrick. I live in the Twin Cities of Minnesota and I'm a graphic designer and for me that looks like a lot of brand identity work, a lot of packaging work, illustrations. Now I've kind of branched out a little bit into licensing and some patterns and that type of thing, but primarily what I'm doing, 99% of my day-to-Day work. My revenue is one-on-one client work, surveying clients in a variety of different capacities.

Shanna (06:00):

I love it. And did I read this right on your website? This is your what, 13th year in business? Yeah,

Olivia (06:07):

It's my 13th year as a professional designer technically. I see. Yeah, my business. Well, we can get into that. My business had to stop and a start in the middle there. I saw

Shanna (06:15):

A blog.

Olivia (06:16):

Yes, but I have been working as a designer for 13 years.

Shanna (06:24):

I love it. I pulled up some blogs that I'm excited to get into. One was about shutting down and going back to full-time work. One was about not demonizing hourly work. I thought that was so interesting. And then keeping your business small and lean. I thought that was so interesting about you here, build an agency and you can take time off. And it's like, no, I just want to do my work. And then if I don't want to work in July, I can't. So many. I was like, we are kindred spirits. And also Olivia, I don't know if you know this, but we lived in Duluth for about three years for a little stint with my husband's job. I know lived

Olivia (07:02):

In Minnesota. Yeah, Duluth is so mean, so beautiful and magical

Shanna (07:05):

There. It's so beautiful. It's so beautiful. Tennesseean moved to Minnesota. It was a whole trip, but it was pretty and I miss the snow. Okay. Tell me about life before business. So did you go to school for this? Did you always know you wanted to be a graphic designer? Why did you start your business? Walk me through the beginning stages.

Olivia (07:24):

Okay, okay. We will go way back in time. So I knew I would say pretty early on that I wanted to be a designer probably when I was 13 or 14, which didn't feel that young looking back on it or at that time. But now looking back on

Shanna (07:37):

It, it feel so mature. Yes,

Olivia (07:38):

I was a tiny, tiny microscopic child, so my mom was a graphic designer, she was an art director. I feel like, I just feel like that term was different, not back then, but in the eighties and seventies. And so she was an art director, so I grew up in an extremely creative household. My dad is an inventor, and so just in really different ways, my parents were very, very creative and it really marked my life experiences. So I went to college in Iowa, played golf there. And then after college I moved back to the Twin Cities and had a variety of different jobs. I worked for a commercial greeting card company. I worked for a nonprofit school for four years, and then I worked for an apparel startup, kind of a socially conscious apparel brand. And so I had really different professional experiences that looking back on it were so important for where I am today.

(08:39):

Getting those experiences and figuring out how to work with people. I mean, I learned so much in school, but I really learned everything professionally after that graduation day. There's so much that I could never have learned in school. So just navigating personalities, working with other people. When the copy isn't mysteriously in college, the copy is always the right length. Everything is as a designer within the parameters of your brain in college. And then you get into the real world with clients. And having worked in-House in all of my jobs, your clients are your fellow colleagues. And so just figuring out how to exist in the working world, I mean, it's such a period of growth and I have so much gratitude for the experiences that I had, even if they weren't always perfect at the time, no job is. They have really shaped who I am today.

Shanna (09:37):

At what point did you think I want to go out on my own and do this? Were you nervous? Do you have entrepreneurs in your life? I mean, did you think you would work at a job forever? Talk me through when you started thinking about starting your own company.

Olivia (09:55):

So it was in 2015 and at that point I was the marketing and communications manager. I've been promoted. I was very excited about that. And to be totally honest, I don't really remember when I graduated from college, nobody wanted to do their own thing. We all wanted to go work for an agency. It wasn't on a single person in my classes radar that you could freelance. I mean, it's so different than it is today. It's completely different. I graduated in 2010, and so that was not something that was on my radar. But within those first five years of being out of school, I think I started to see that there was the possibility for me to maybe do my own thing. However, I am a firstborn, sort of someone who is, I'm very passionate, extremely energetic, but I'm not really a fake it till you make it kind of gal.

(10:51):

And so I needed to be able to make the same amount of money that I was making in my job at that time, and I had no clue how to even begin to do that. I actually did. I went out and I figured I learned about retainers, which I didn't know anything about at the time. And I actually convinced my employer. I was like, Hey, I'm going to quit, but you should hire me for an annual retainer. I'll basically do the same job and you'll pay me half of what you're paying me right now. So pretty good pitch for them. And they took it. So then I needed to find one other client to also do the same thing. And so I had an ongoing retainer client that was five hours a month or five hours a week or I can't even remember what it was now. And they also said yes. And so then I had my salary covered sort of, I mean, I knew I needed to have one or two other projects kind of trickling in every other. And I think once I figured out that I could actually do it, once those were in place, then I was hyped and ready to go and really felt the entrepreneurial spirit kind of bubble up.

(12:06):

And for me, it was mostly a drive of wanting to have more control of my schedule. I play golf competitively still. I play a lot of tournaments. It's a big part of my life training and practicing and competing. And so at that point, having a pretty traditional, it was a little different. I worked usually from seven 30 to four kind of school hours a little bit more, but it was very difficult for me to take time off to do the things that I wanted to do in terms of competing. So that was really the biggest drive. I wanted to have more control of my schedule and be able to work at night if I needed to or at five in the morning if I needed to.

Shanna (12:46):

Okay. So I love that. Olivia, how did it go? I mean, how did you figure out pricing and getting clients and was it freelance for a long time? Tell me just kind of through the growth and what you learned, especially like you said you're great at your craft, but you weren't a trained business owner, so how did it go?

Olivia (13:07):

Honestly, it went great. The best decision that I made was offering retainers because what ended up happening is that I had my two big retainers and then I had one smaller one. And so really I ended up basically just working with three clients for two years and a couple of random one-off ones here and there. But it was so simple. I really did a good job of accidentally protecting my piece. I don't think that I set out to do that, but because I was working with people that I either had by working with or it was basically just a continuation of my job, it was really pretty easy. I mean, it wasn't easy. I was still working, but it was very seamless and smooth in terms of charging. I literally just made it up. I think I was charging like $50 an hour, I want to say maybe 55. The way my retainers were structured was basically they were incentivized to commit to more hours. So it would be like if it's just my rack rate, it's 75, but if you commit to 40 hours a month, it's 50. And so that was an easy sell for those two people.

Shanna (14:24):

And did you see growth over time? Did you get your website up? Was it Instagram? How did you start doing your marketing and when did you feel the need to get more clients?

Olivia (14:35):

Well, so after a couple of years, after two years, the needs of one of my clients, they had become bigger than my capacity to serve them, and so they ended up hiring a graphic designer full. And so then that client went away and I still did one-off projects for them, but it slowly went down. And so that's when I started soliciting more work. But to be honest, I have just been so committed to word of mouth from day one. I obviously use social media now. It's kind of accidentally become a part of my brand. However, I truly do not feel like it's a very big part of my business because I tell people this all the time and they don't really believe me, but I just don't get clients from Instagram. I don't share any work on Instagram and I don't solicit work on Instagram, and that is just a personal boundary that I have right now because I'm not interested in feedback on my work on Instagram. And so the way that I have gotten work has truly been mostly through word of mouth over 13 years, just slowly kind of bubbling over needling out into the world. But I would say pretty early on I wanted Instagram to be how I got clients. I just saw very quickly that I wasn't getting any from there, so it wasn't the best use of my time.

Shanna (16:08):

Yeah. Looking back, would you say that there's been any big pivots or shifts or wow, the business really took on? Do you see any highlight moments looking back since starting your business officially in 2015?

Olivia (16:24):

Yeah, so I would say in 2017 or maybe 2018, I really had become pretty determined. I knew that I wanted this to happen. I knew that I wanted my studios to be successful. It's not that I didn't know that before, but I think I just felt more committed, then more capable. I think that's natural. As time passes, we get more confident and I've just found as I've gotten older, I feel so much more at peace with myself. And so I think every year that past, I just started to feel more capable in who I am professionally. And so around that time, I just really took ownership of my business and basically said, Hey, if I want to do something, I'm going to make it happen. No one knows who I am. No one's just going to accidentally find me. So if I want to work with somebody, I need to go out and tell them if I want to do something, I need to connect with the right people to make it happen. Around that time too, I did have, I would call it a big break. I had just randomly Callaway golf. Someone was accidentally following me on social media and he asked me if I would design some head covers for their players for the masters, and that really has shaped the golf portion of my business. I work with a lot of golf clients now, and so that has really kind of kicked off that part of my business. That is a really fun portion of what I do now.

Shanna (17:58):

Yeah. Olivia, this is off scripting it, so I'm interested to hear your answer, but in the beginning, it sounds like you wanted freedom and flexibility to be able to have a schedule that allowed you to pursue these other passions that you have if you needed to replace your corporate income. Have you ever felt the pool as your business has grown or the longer you've been in business to make more money? What's your driver now?

Olivia (18:30):

Yeah, I feel that all the time. Well, first of all, I think that money is amazing. I think that money gives people options, and I think that there's nothing wrong with wanting to make money. There's this story, I don't know if you've ever heard this, the farm girl Flowers, CEO tells this story of when people interview her and they say, what's the inception of your business? And they kind of expected her to say like, oh, I grew up making floral bouquets in my backyard with my grandma. And she's like, no, I just saw a hole in the market and I thought I could make a bunch of money. And that's awesome. This expectation that for women, it's always like, oh, our souls work coming to life. And I always really try to tell people the other that you're doing this job because you want to make money.

(19:24):

So there's nothing wrong with that, and I'm sure you'd feel the same way. It's normal if you're running a business, you want to generate revenue. That's a pretty central part of it. So I try not to demonize it. Something that I'm working on a little bit is that when I got out of college and got my first salary, I thought it was amazing. When I left my nonprofit job, I was making $50,000. I thought that was the most money I was ever going to make as a graphic designer. And now it's insatiable. You can want, is there ever enough? So I'm kind of starting to figure out that I can make lots and lots and lots of money, but at what cost? And so at what point do I just say this is enough for right now? And balancing my parents, their parents, they did not have a lot.

(20:18):

My dad always says that. My grandpa would always tell him like, Hey, your goal is to have money so you can have a different life than you have right now. My grandma was a widow. She had four kids. She had never worked before. And so just lack really, I think impacted their lives. And so I did grow up with a push to be successful and to see money is something that I can use for good, both for my family and also in the world. The more money I make, the more I can donate, the more I can employ others, that type of thing. And so I don't know exactly how I got on this tangent except for it's so I always felt the pressure to make more money, which is yes, I think that that pressure is constant and I am trying to figure out how to get to a place where I can embrace that as a fun challenge. I love a challenge. I'm very competitive person, but also not be blinded by a desire for a finish line that is just keeps extending out in front of me in perpetuity.

Shanna (21:24):

Yeah. Oh, that's so true. Because yeah, looking back, I remember days where it's like, oh, if I made this much money that would be rich if I made this much money, that would be rich. And it's like, you're right. The finish line keeps moving, and that can be so quite exhausting. On this money topic, what would you say kind of relationship with money-wise, what has come naturally or easy for you? And then what would you say were some of the bigger struggles or lessons you learned with money and or running the back end of the business?

Olivia (22:04):

So what comes naturally to me, both related to money and just general business, I think it ties in, is that I am very driven. If I set a goal, I'm ready to go do it. I have high aspirations. I am my brain and my vision is on the moon. So that comes extremely naturally to me. Like I said, I'm very high energy. I wake up in the morning and I open my eyes and every single day I roll over and I'm like, please be five. I can't wait to get out of bed. That's just how I'm wired. I literally don't know how I ended up this way. My dad, how old

Shanna (22:44):

Are your children

Olivia (22:44):

Again? Yeah, well, that's true. That hasn't always been the case. They're four and one and a half, but still I have a, well that right now runs very deep, and so that has come very naturally to me. I'm a super enthusiast. Anybody who knows me well would tell you that I am all in on everything that I love in my life and it's a superpower, but it can also drive me down sometimes what has been difficult, I think as someone who is that way, that there have been seasons of my business mostly around motherhood. And when you're someone who wakes up going 65 miles an hour, the second that your eyeballs open, it's been difficult for me to see that there are times where I need to slow down and times where my vision needs to either be put on hold or just adjust because of the season that I'm in.

(23:43):

And I really struggled with that when my first daughter was born. I mean, I had a very, very, very difficult time. And I'm so glad I went through that because it did really impact when my next daughter was born, just being so much more equipped to understand, hey, this is a season. This isn't the end of your life. You will see your friends again. You will sleep again. You will have career advancements again. But that has been difficult for me even going into this literal season of winter and knowing I cannot be at full capacity with work because I'm probably going to have a sick kid at home every two to three weeks until March or April. And so just accepting the reality of light sometimes as someone who's sort of a dreamer can be hard for me.

Shanna (24:36):

Yeah. Oh, Olivia, this is all so good. Thank you for sharing that because as someone who is an achiever as well has been very competitive for all of her life, but desires for me personally, desires so much right now to soak up this season with these little people. It feels like a constant rebalancing, a constant wrestling with how much do you want to grow versus there's a saying, Olivia, if anybody listening, this is not my favorite. When people say, if you're not growing, you're dying. And I'm just like, that is actually not the case. So that brings me to this blog post I found on your website a little bit, and I want to talk about it if you're okay with it.

Olivia (25:27):

Which one is it?

Shanna (25:28):

The one where you shared that you decided to close down your business and go back to work full time? And then piggybacking off of that, I don't know what year that was written. Let me look.

Olivia (25:42):

I just wrote that within the last six months, but that was in, I think it was in 2016.

Shanna (25:49):

Okay. Okay. So I'm excited to hear about that. And then piggybacking off of that, yes, 2023 you, you have made the decision in your business in this particular season and it can change, but to run your business as a one woman show, keeping it lean, keeping it. So I would love just to talk through the decision making for you and growing your business and what led to some of those decisions?

Olivia (26:20):

Well, so first of all, going to work for a client. I mean, I would do that again, to be totally honest. I would never rule that out. Something that I know to be true in my life is that the best things and the worst things, but mostly the best things that have ever happened to me have been way outside of the realm of what I would've imagined for in my narrow vision of what I think my life is going to look like. So I really try to keep my heart open to new and different things at all times because I just think that it leads to so much goodness if we're willing to stay. So first of all, I would say I wouldn't be opposed to doing this again, and I don't think anyone else should be either. I think some people feel like if you start a studio and then you go back to full-time work, you have failed.

(27:09):

But that's not the case at all. So basically I just got recruited by a client. I was working for them a lot, and they said, please come work for us. And I finally just said, Hey, you guys have been saying this for six months. Just name a number. I mean, what are you talking about? Is this real? What is this just a, it's a little dance we're going to do for the rest of eternity. So they did and it was great, and I went to work for them. It was super fun. Very quickly though, I was not really doing any design work, which was hard for me. I was a true creative director where I wasn't an illustrator creating stuff every day, which is what I am very passionate about. And so I just knew that it wasn't going to work super. So I think I stayed a year and it was so fun.

(28:03):

They were really, really young too. So I think most people that worked there were between 22 and 24, and I was 28 at the time, maybe 27, which doesn't sound that much older, but I could not hang. I couldn't do the startup. We're staying in the office till 4:00 AM thing. I was like, okay, well it's four 30, so I'm going to get out of here. That was a great experience, amazing people, and it's really what I think of when I tell people all the time that my favorite part about my full-time jobs was my friends in every full-time job. I had deep, deep, deep friendships, and I miss that all the time in my work that I do now, especially after you have kids, I think sometimes that's even more, can make life feel more isolating. And so there are so many benefits to working. I mean, yeah, I could talk about that forever.

Shanna (29:01):

And then now, thank you for sharing that. I feel like that's helped shape the business that you want to have today and talking about this push to make more money and how have you found that, and we'll talk about harmony and balance and work-life balance and all that in just a minute, but the right fit for you in this season is to take on the client load you can manage and not try to grow this big agency. How have you wrestled through and figure it out? That is the pace for you?

Olivia (29:32):

Yeah, I mean a lot of trial and error. I have employed people more regularly. I have had people on contract and it just is, it's a lot. Managing other people is so much worse than just managing yourself. Now that's kind of a hot take because there are also so many benefits, the community and everybody's working together, but I take care of so many people in my life Day-to-Day right now that I just don't have a ton of bandwidth to be taking care of a ton of other employees. And so I really never wanted to have a big agency or anything. The main draw to that for me is money. Obviously I don't, for example, I don't offer web design. Well, if I did offer web design, that'll be a really easy way to tack on 20 to $50,000 per project. Instead, I just pass it off to my friends who also do it and they get that money, which also brings me a lot of joy and satisfaction.

(30:30):

But right now I'm like, okay, do I want the liability of that? No, I don't. Do I want the time and ongoing relationships of managing websites that I'm paying someone else to do? No, I don't. And so just getting really real with myself about what I want my life to look like, how much money I need to make, and then reverse engineering a business that works for me has resulted and me running extremely lean. I mean, my expenses are so low. It's like a joke almost. I literally just have my laptop, my office, I'm in my basement right now. My furnace is six feet away from me over there. And so I am just doing the most with the least and it is so freeing. I love it.

Shanna (31:19):

Olivia, thank you so much for sharing that because I think in the business world, and especially I come from a finance background, so it's very much three inch high heels, do the bigger better get the IPO. Money is king of the hill and I run my business so much differently. I think people know business built for life is my motto, building and designing a business for the life that you want, but it's not easy. Olivia saying, I'm going to keep this lean means there's projects you can't take on. There's money you're leaving on the table. There's stuff you're walking away from. And I just think, I'm sure you've set your mind to that in the season, but I'm sure there are days where it's not easy and I just love hearing what we all know. Money isn't the driver of joy. Of course. It's a necessity though. So

Olivia (32:22):

Yeah, it's a really hard balance to strike and I struggle with it a lot. I also feel like I've sort of crossed the starting line of the next chapter of my life. We're done having children. I'm a year and a half postpartum. I feel like I'm kind of waking up to myself again, just coming back to life a little bit. And so I have no clue what my business is going to look like six months from now. I could have a full-time employee. I mean, I really try to, like I said earlier, just stay open. I know that for sure for the last two years, being me alone is the best thing I could have ever done for myself and my business, but I can't say for sure that 2025 Olivia will feel the same way. And so it is really fun to stay, but being in a place where you're like, I want to make the most money I can while also having a good life. I think it's a really admirable thing to pursue, not be blindly. If you love your job and you love your work, making sure that you are pursuing that, but also pursuing your family and friendships and hobbies outside of work, it all adds up to a really lovely life.

Shanna (33:40):

And I love what you wrote in one of your blogs about your professor who said, there will be enough time in your life to do everything you want. And it reminded me of a Martha Stewart quote that somebody shared with me where she was being interviewed, and I think she was already maybe in her seventies, and she said, they were like, when are you going to do this, Martha? And she was like, there's always more time for that. And I just thought that was such a good healthy perspective and I love that reading that in your blog was the closest I've ever heard to that kind of same idea from Martha Stewart of just like, you can shift, you can pivot, you can change. Sometimes I think, I don't know if you do this, but I've put like, oh man, I messed up if I change course. But it's actually like, Nope. Isn't it cool that we have the opportunity to change course or the decision or I just changed my mind. I don't want to do that today and that's okay.

Olivia (34:36):

Yeah, I was just talking to a mom friend about this and feeling like every decision is a permanent decision, but really we're making the decision that we feel is right with the information that we have at that point in time and the information that we have, the life experience that we have will be different in a few years from now. So as someone who also really values staying true to my commitments, it is a fine line to walk of not being like, I'm done with this. Like, oh, nevermind. I don't want to

Shanna (35:09):

Do that anymore. Right, exactly.

Olivia (35:11):

But I do believe that if I wanted to become, I can't think of a great example. If I wanted to become a art curator later in life, I believe that I could do that if that's really truly what I wanted. I don't think that you pick a path and then you make it to the end and you die. I think it's just so wavy. It's curvy. You go backwards, you go forwards, and yeah, it all adds up somehow in the end.

Shanna (35:41):

Okay, this is so good. Let me ask you, I always like to ask a question to all of my people I get to chat with. What is the best thing you would say you have learned about money?

Olivia (35:52):

So I would say the best thing that I have learned about money is kind of twofold, and I have touched on this a little bit, but the first is that money does give you options. I think that it gives you, it's something that is worthwhile to pursue. I do sometimes struggle with feeling like I should just be doing my job because I love it and it shouldn't just be about the money, but at the end of the day, it is about money. It's very central to what I do as a business owner, and there's nothing wrong with that. And just embracing that that is a part of what I do and a part of being a good business owner and a strategic business owner that is very important to me. The flip side of that is that I do feel that sometimes when you get the ball rolling in terms of what you want and how much you want to make, that ball just keeps rolling ahead of you forever.

(36:43):

And so having some real sense of maybe not, I don't want to make more than this amount of money, nobody would say that, but evaluating every year, was the juice worth the squeeze? There are projects that I have had where it's like a $10,000 project and I'm still like, this is not worth it the way that they're treating me, the emotional turmoil. So I feel like when you first start your business, you sort of have this empty library, you have no experiences, you have had no bad clients, no good clients, and then slowly over time you just add all these touch points in and around money and owning a business, and in the end you just have this deep intuition about the right thing to do. So I think coming back to money, bringing that same intuition and evaluating how do I feel and is what I'm doing day-to-day in my business worth the output or what would be an easy switch to make so that I don't take a huge hit in revenue, but I'm at a lower capacity so that I feel better and have more time for myself.

Shanna (37:54):

I love that you just said, was the juice worth a squeeze? I need you to create a print. Olivia, that's so good. Speaking of balance, I think that's so good. We've talked about how your business has shifted in seasons of especially in this season, having littles now, maybe in the future it might shift again, but I would love to hear, I love that idea of balancing the need to make money versus the never ending. You can always make more like, okay, let's find a balance as far as making money. How would you say in your life, especially in this past season, that you have found that harmony with being the mom? You want to be being the wife, you want to be being the business owner, you want to be making the money you want to make. It's a lot, right? It's a lot of demands on us. How have you kind of structured that in your life?

Olivia (38:52):

So for me, when I am in something, I'm really in it. For example, my kids are at school or daycare during the day and when they're gone, I am working hardcore and I'm not feeling guilty about it because I'm like, this is my time to do this. I'm going to be all in when I'm with them. Similarly, I'm all in my phone is not in the room, I'm not checking on email. I'm momming hardcore mom mode, and that kind of compartmentalization has been really helpful for me. That's not right for everybody. Some people are like, oh, I want my life and my work to blend and it's so beautiful and I do not feel like that at all. I'm like oil, water, work, family, don't have them come together ever basically is how I'm surviving right now. And I just try to not feel guilty about having the business part of my life take up the amount of time that it does.

(39:51):

I have a good friend and she was listening to me just go on and on about feeling guilty, having all this mom guilt a couple of years ago, and she just looked at me and she said, what if you just consciously don't feel guilty? What if you just choose not to feel guilty? And it's really stuck with me because sometimes I think I feel guilty because I don't feel guilty. Does that make sense? I love my job, I love working, and then I feel bad that I love my job and I love working. And so the combination of being really in it when I'm in it, either with my family or in my job, and then also for me, I'm really passionate about my hobbies, so was my husband. And so we just give each other a lot of time to pursue those. So I feel very full as a person. I love my career, I love my family. It's such a fun time to have kids this age, and I also feel like I have my own identity as an individual, and so I feel very healthy and at peace right now. Did

Shanna (40:57):

It take you time, Olivia, to get there and I'm the same. I learned. It took me a while after having my daughter to learn I need compartments. I have friends that talk about integrating life and business and I'm like, Nope, I need on and off. I love how you said oil and water. That's what works best for me, but did it take you time to figure this out, this

Olivia (41:23):

Oh, absolutely. My first daughter when she was born, I legitimately thought I was going to be bored on my maternity leave, so I had a client starting two weeks after she was born. I mean, absolutely. I have learned so much in the last four years of my life and have changed so much. I think that anytime that you get something wrong, it's a huge gift because you can avoid doing it again in the future. And so I would just tell anybody listening if you were in a hard time right now. Yeah, it's a huge bummer. I've been through a lot of tough stuff, but also being able to say, this is such an important data point in my life and I will be able to use this moving forward. I'm not talking about major loss or trauma or grief, but just day-to-day life struggles. Yeah.

Shanna (42:20):

Yeah. Olivia, that's so helpful. I want to ask one more off scripted question before we go into a quick fire round. I love how you talked about, and this is my job every single day, we all have this bucket of time, we all have this financial need and or want or desire, however far you want to take that for you, especially making the decision to in this season, keep it as lean as possible, one woman show, outsource everything else that's not for you instead of hiring. How has that made you think about your offers? Because I think we are living in a season where I joke the six figures is now the seven figures and the scale, the scale has dramatically changed in the last 10 years. You are doing design work, you are trading a lot of time for the finances. Have you ever felt this tug pressure pool to change your business model to, and or let me ask it this way. How have you chosen which offers you're going to pursue doing your book, not taking on websites? What is your decision making process there versus what education isn't for me or this isn't for me, agency isn't for me. I'd love to hear just how you've wrestled through that.

Olivia (43:44):

Well, I have tried all of those things and the things that I don't like I stopped doing is basically the honest answer. I've just done it. There have been very few things where I have said, no, I will never do that. I have tried everything you just said, I've done it, and it either didn't go well or it went fine, but I thought I just didn't like the way this's felt or this was too much stress. Or is there another way I could do this where I could still make some money, but I can be less involved in this? The website is a great example of that. So I think just knowing that you're going to try a lot of things and some of them and not like others. Also, right now, my offer structure is I have three different types of services that I offer just trying to leave less money on table, and again, I'm trying to make as much money as possible.

(44:36):

That's a big part of why I'm running a business. And so I have a standard offer, which for me is either visual branding or packaging design, which is typically a more expanded offer over a longer period of time. I have a time sensitive offer, so a design intensive or a design day, and then I have ongoing offers, which would be for me as retainer. So I have clients that I work with every month. And so in doing that, I'm trying to kind of protect myself so that if for example, I never get another visual branding lead, my income is at least diversified enough where I'm not screwed on month two. So that has been helpful just for me to kind of think about how very rarely do all my clients have the exact same needs, and so how can I meet a prospective client where they're at and try to suggest something that's mutually beneficial for me and for them. Yeah,

Shanna (45:32):

I love that so much, and thanks for, I was just so curious because with the size of audience, you have the following, you have the energy around your work, the brand awareness. Like I said, I've followed you for years, clearly not on social media, but I've been a fan of your work. I could imagine you have been asked to do lots of things you have chosen not to pursue, and I love that you said you try it and if it doesn't feel right, then you don't. I think that's a great, great perspective. Okay, let's quick fire. Okay. It's quick fire. One thing you would be embarrassed if people knew.

Olivia (46:06):

So my favorite musical artist of all time is Kenny Loggins, which is a very interesting, fun fact about me. I have seen him in concert a bunch of times. I have sort of weird taste in music. I'm like Kenny Loggins, Phil Collins, Don Henley, Peter. Basically I'm an old soul and really got brainwashed by my parents' musical choices. So you can pretty much always find me listening to Kenny Loggins or the Bee Gees literally every single day.

Shanna (46:37):

This makes me so happy. So let's see. Kenny Loggins, I had to look it up. Danger Zone, top Gun.

Olivia (46:44):

Yeah, I'm more of like a deep cut Kenny Loggins kind of gal. Some of the nineties albums. I mean, it's literally what we listen to on repeat my entire childhood.

Shanna (46:55):

This makes me so happy. I'm going to have to listen to some of these songs. I only know the Footloose ones

Olivia (47:01):

And he definitely has some major hits, but I love my poor husband. He has to listen to all of my very interesting playlists.

Shanna (47:12):

Oh, your kids are getting such a good education.

Olivia (47:15):

I hope

Shanna (47:15):

So. Okay. Any regrets or wish you could do over moments?

Olivia (47:19):

Well, that's a great question. There are a lot of things that I have gotten wrong a lot, some small, some big. However, I truly feel that if they didn't happen when they did, they would've happened eventually in some capacity. And so I'm really grateful that every mistake I made, I made it when I did, and I would never change where I am today and who I am today. And so I feel like the only option is acceptance of everything in my past.

Shanna (47:53):

I think that's such a healthy and good perspective. Yes, because we can't get it. I'm a perfectionist at heart and it hurts so much, but I'm like, I mean, you should have got that right, Shanna, but it's so true. Like you've said throughout the podcast, the lessons learned in those moments are invaluable. Okay. Big win or pinch me moment.

Olivia (48:17):

I have had some really awesome high profile clients, but I have to be honest and they're wonderful and I love them, and when you get the inquiry in your inbox, you're like, I cannot believe this person is reaching out to me. However, for how exciting those are, I love the thrill of helping a small business go from zero to a hundred is so exciting for me. So I feel like the pinch me moment is every time someone trusts me to solve their visual problems, it truly, it never gets old, and I'm just in awe of the trust that people place in me. So I'm just grateful that that still feels magic to me, whether it's a Fortune 500 company or Susan's Flower Shop out of her garage, I love both.

Shanna (49:06):

Yeah, I love that. Okay. Best advice or just really good advice that you have received?

Olivia (49:14):

Well, you actually touched on it, which is my professor from college, Connie, I reached out to her. I was super overwhelmed. I wanted to change jobs, but I felt like a fraud and I felt like I was job hopping after just a couple years. And she just said, you are going to have enough time to do everything you need to do in your life, and you don't even know what those things are right now. So just basically trust that the path is going to kind of lay out in front of you, and it's not that you don't have any agency in your life, but just that release, this idea that every decision you make has to be the perfect decision because your life will evolve and so will what you are looking for and desire in a job and career.

Shanna (49:57):

Yeah, I love that. That is so freeing. All right, last quick fire and then we'll send it off. Okay. What are you working on now or one resource that you would like to share?

Olivia (50:08):

Well, I have really fun clients right now. I'm so lucky. Seriously, I'm like the luckiest girl in the whole world. I love my clients. They're so amazing. A bunch of them, two of them are going into mass retail, so we're doing their retail packaging right now, which is really fun. Like I said, zero to a hundred, these brands that start in, they're bootstrapping tiny brands and now they're going to target and Whole Foods, and it is so fulfilling to me to be a part of the journey for people. I also brought my retainer program Back to Life two years ago, and so just continuing to build that and grow my retainer clients has been really fun to get back to that structure of working as well

Shanna (50:52):

And having that ongoing relationship I'm sure is.

Olivia (50:54):

It's so meaningful. Yeah, it is.

Shanna (50:57):

I love it. Olivia, this has been so fun. I wish that I could just give you a hug through the screen. Thanks for sharing your story, and you are just such a delight. You bring such depth to what you're talking about, but also such lightness, and I think that's really, it's been a gift for me today just to get to sit with you and know there's freedom and what we're doing and there's freedom and the lessons we're learning and there's freedom in what we're doing. That's why we started entrepreneurship. Let's send it off with looking back on day one, and if you want to think about this as going out on your own, but looking back now with all the experiences you've had in life and in business, what would you tell yourself? Looking back?

Olivia (51:46):

I think I would tell myself to keep your heart open, and that despite your best efforts to wrangle life into a neat storyline, that there are going to be really wonderful things that happen and really terrible things that happen, and a lot of those are out of your control, and so finding some way to be at peace with the unpredictability of life sooner than I think I just kind of got there within the last two years. I think my life would've been a little bit easier if I had realized that a little bit early on in my journey.

Shanna (52:27):

I can yes to that so much. That's so good. Olivia, thank you for your time and sharing your story. It's just been such a joy to hang out with you today.

Olivia (52:37):

Thank you. I have 150 follow-up questions. I feel like now we should just flip and I should interview you. I don't have a podcast, but I'm sorry. I felt like I really talked most of the time and it's been fun to get to know you and I know that this will not be the last time that we talked.

Shanna (52:53):

Let's not. Let's first time.

Olivia (52:55):

Yeah. Yes. First time.

Shanna (52:56):

Hey, wildflower, you just finished another episode of Consider the Wildflowers the podcast. Head over to consider the wildflowers podcast.com for show notes, resource links, and to learn how you can connect with Olivia. One final thought for today from Winston Churchill, success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts. As always, thank you for listening. I'll see you next time.