072. Rachel Awtrey: Lessons Learned From 2 Million Podcast Downloads

Did you know the global number of podcast listeners is expected to reach over 504 million this year? 

More and more small business owners are jumping on the podcast bandwagon (myself included!) but our latest guest has been at this since 2018 – and she’s got so many great insights to share.

Rachel Awtrey is a mom of two, lifestyle blogger, and host of the Real Talk with Rachel Awtrey podcast. In this interview, Rachel shares how she turned her summer project into a full-time business and creative ways she’s learned to stand out in an increasingly crowded market.

2 Million Downloads and counting? Let’s Go! 

WILDFLOWER SHOWNOTES : shannaskidmore.com/rachel-awtrey

📌 RESOURCES MENTIONED:
Real Talk with Rachel Awtrey
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Transcript

Rachel (00:00):

Over the eight weeks, something happened. Call it favor, call it opportunity. Call it. We were meeting the market with what it needed. I'm not sure something happened and our listenership went up crazy amount. Then we started, for some reason we ended up on agency lists. So if someone were to write a book or someone were to write a song, their publishing house or whoever is helping them, provides them typically with an agency that gets them and their book or whatever their new project is out in front of people. And so we ended up on that list somehow and started getting pitched massive names. People I should not be sitting with on a computer as just a 23-year-old that didn't really know what she was talking about, but we did get the opportunity so we just went for it.

Shanna (00:48):

You are listening to Consider the Wildflowers the podcast episode 72. Did you know the global number of podcast listeners is expected to reach over 504 million big M million this year? More and more small business owners are jumping on the podcast bandwagon, myself included, but our latest guest has been at this since 2018 and she's got some great insights to share. Rachel Ria is a mom of two lifestyle blogger and host of the Real Talk with Rachel Autry podcast. In this interview, Rachel shares how she turned her summer project into a full-time business in creative ways. She learned to stand out in an increasingly crowded market, 2 million downloads and counting. Let's go. If you dig professional bios, here's Rachel's. Rachel Autry is a trailblazing influencer and podcaster who defies conventional norms by inviting her audience to peek behind the curtain of her life. Rachel is a mom of two little boys and military wife, and after moving eight times in her seven years of marriage, she knows a thing or two about making community wherever she is with an unwavering commitment to transparency.

(01:51):

Rachel shares her personal journey, triumphs and challenges of breaking down barriers and inspiring others to embrace their own authentic selves. Through her empowering content, she provides a unique blend of encouragement and practical tips, empowering her followers to navigate life's obstacles with resilience and grace. Okay, formal introductions over, let's dive in. Hey, it's Shanna and this is Consider the Wildflowers, the podcast. For the past 15 plus years, I've had the honor to hear thousands of stories from entrepreneurs around the world. As a former Fortune 100 financial advisor turned business consultant, I have a unique opportunity to see the real behind the highlight reel. I'm talking profit and loss statements, unpaid taxes, moments of burnout, and those of utter victory. Or as my husband says, the content everyone is wondering but not many are talking about. And now I'm bringing these private conversations to you. Hear the untold stories of how industry leaders, founders, and up and coming entrepreneurs got their start, the experiences that shaped them and the journey to building the brands they have today. Stories that will inspire and reignite encourage to redefine success and build a life and business on your own terms. Welcome Wildflower. I'm so glad you're here. Hi Rachel. Welcome to the show. This is going to be so fun.

Rachel (03:04):

I am so excited. I love sitting behind podcasts, whether it's mine or yours or whoever's. I love

Shanna (03:10):

Podcasts. I love that your podcast is called Real Talk. I'm so obsessed

Rachel (03:14):

We do that. Lots of real talk. I was always the girl in the class if the teacher was like, does anybody have any other questions? Everyone's like, everyone be quiet so we can move on. But I was the girl that always raised my hand and asked the question that I'm pretty sure everybody else was thinking, and is that continued into adulthood where I'm like, we have so many other questions. We're still thinking like marriage, faith, business, friendship, all the messy things. I'm like, I'm happy to go first. I'll break the ice.

Shanna (03:42):

Rachel, have you ever felt the need to reign that in?

Rachel (03:47):

Yes, and I do feel like with adulthood obviously it comes maturity and with wisdom comes discernment. And so I do feel like I have good boundaries on knowing the room, knowing the people I'm asking, the advice and expertise from knowing what questions belong where and when is something that I feel like I have learned. And really through this whole journey with the podcast and learning what voice do I project to be the answer to my questions. And that has been really cool. I have found really great people by being on the hunt and not just taking the first answer that comes. So I'm happy to put my questions and put other people's answers out there. It's been sweet.

Shanna (04:28):

I love this so much because I was saying before we hit record, I am such a curious person. I just, me too. And because I have had the honor and the privilege to work with entrepreneurs for 15 years, which is just crazy. That's huge.

Rachel (04:47):

Yeah,

Shanna (04:47):

I feel like I've gotten to sit in these rooms, which is why I wanted to start this podcast, send these rooms where entrepreneurs have conversations that I don't think they have and I get to ask these questions that people don't get to ask. And I'm like, I love that I get to do money because I'm like, so I mean, but how much money do you make? Because I want, everybody wants to know. And so the reason I asked you that question is because there's definitely times where I will dig and then there's times where it's like, Hey, maybe we're going to leave that one. We're going to let that sit. And figuring that out when you're so curious I

Rachel (05:25):

Know can be a full thing. A lot of times I ask questions and I realized the question I asked wasn't the question I needed to be answered. And so figuring out first, what am I curious about and what am I going to try to get to the bottom of so that I don't waste my time and I don't waste somebody else's. So I'm like, if I'm curious about home culture, I'm really not curious maybe about home culture as much as I am about compassion for myself as a mom. And so it's that question I'd be asking, not why I'm always overstimulated. What can I change about my home? It's like, no, no, what can I change about me? So I'm learning too. The longer I sit with my questions, the really I can get to the nitty gritty. What is it really that I'm trying to get answered here? And so I bet you feel the same. Yes.

Shanna (06:07):

That's such a good way to think about it. Asking questions is an art. Yes, yes. Asking the right. So you're

Rachel (06:14):

Curious how much money people make, but you're also like, I want to know how you made it. I don't just want to know your number. It's the same.

Shanna (06:22):

Lots of people love to share their numbers more so these days than they ever have, but I'm like, but what's that number say? And there's so much more to unpack there. Okay. Hi Rachel. This is going to be so fun. Tell everybody hey, just like who you're, and then yeah, I get to be so curious about how this all began, what your business looks like. So just say hello and tell everybody who you are now, what business you're running now.

Rachel (06:47):

Okay. Hello, my name is Rachel Autry. I feel like it's important I have context into personal life before we jump into professional. I think that gives an idea of what all's going on. At the same time, I'm a mom, so two little boys, Maddox and Oliver, they are two and a half and almost one. So we are in the diapers, cribs, all the things the trenches people say, but we love it. I do this with my husband Thomas. He's great. He is a pilot, so his schedule looks very different than everybody else's. I feel like he's not nine to five Monday through Friday. So it affords us a lot of time at home and he's a lot of time away, but there's nothing in between. So he's either home for dinner or he's not. And he also is a pilot and flies for the military, which took us through about a three year process of training with military, you can imagine Top Gun movie. But in real life, that was us about three years and we just settled back in Birmingham about a year and a half ago. So we are in Birmingham, Alabama. Love it to death. This place has my heart.

Shanna (07:51):

Is this your home born and raised Birmingham, Alabama? No, we

Rachel (07:55):

Were born and raised in Columbia, South Carolina, and we are high school sweethearts. We broke up for a few years and definitely dated other people, but we rekindled in college, so we just claimed high school sweethearts, but that's us. We moved to Birmingham just for an adventure, like newlywed, fresh out of marriage. We're like, let's just do something fun, move to Birmingham for the adventure and just never left. We love it. Oh, that's awesome. And then professional wise, with all of the moves and the hustle and figuring out how to champion Thomas and all of the things that his career was asking of him, I tried to figure out what does my career look like inside of all of it. This was before remote working was really a trendy thing. So no one was happy to hire me to work from home or wherever I was going to be in the nation, and no one really wanted to hire me for six months.

(08:43):

I don't blame them. So I try to figure out how do I make something for me that I can carry anywhere with little overhead? And honestly, I didn't approach this like, oh, how can I money with my time? Honestly, I didn't. It was more where do I see lack for women like me? And I tried to fill in the gaps for us and then came profit and business and opportunity and connections. So now I have a podcast, it's called Real Talk with Rachel Autry. We just rebranded it to be that name back in July. So it was about six months ago

(09:16):

Before it was called Behind the Bliss Podcast, and I started that in 2018. So it's been about five years before that there was a blog and through all of it, there is an online encouragement through Instagram blog, email, newsletter, text list. We just try to fill in the gaps for women that are, we kind of talked about this before we pressed record, but I just feel like we as women are so curious and we want to ask these questions that we were talking about at the beginning and who can we turn to that can give us the right answers and that we can trust with the information. There's a lot of information, so I just try to meet entertainment with faith, with answers to all of our questions and it is a really fun intersection to be at.

Shanna (10:01):

That's so wonderful. So your husband was a pilot first and then joined the military?

Rachel (10:07):

No, he actually enlisted into the military when he was 17 in high school and he was a mechanic on F sixteens. He was a crew chief, loved it, just wanted to be close to an airplane and he took the first opportunity.

Shanna (10:21):

Which ps speaking of Top Gun, my husband is not the military pilot, but he is just a private pilot. Oh, nice. The F 16 was the one flown in Top Gun? Yes. Which they don't, right? No, it was the F 14. F 14, okay.

Rachel (10:39):

Thomas would be so mad if I didn't correct you. That's the reason

Shanna (10:42):

Why so cop, he's like, they don't fly the F fourteens anymore. I don't think so. So he's wow. In high school enlisted

Rachel (10:50):

And then he went straight into basic and tech school and took a gap year and he is in the National Guard, so technically part-time military, he still is part-time military, but he does have a private gig that is his full-time civilian career. So it's a juggle, but it works and it is fun. I always say this, people are like, what's it worth to have a husband that is either gone or home? Home? And I'm like, it is a lifestyle that's completely different than anybody else and there's pros and there's cons to that. But I will say at the end of the day, to have a husband walk through the door that loves his job creates a culture that is worth the sacrifice of whatever it is, whether it's deployments or him being gone for seven days straight often, it just is worth it to have him be happy. It means a lot sets us up for success better than a cubicle like mechanical engineering job ever would, at least for him.

Shanna (11:50):

Sure.

Rachel (11:51):

So we did whole career pivot. The first, I don't know, eight months we were married, we did not get married and think he was going to be a pilot. He had a quarter life crisis shortly after we set our vows. So we went for it.

Shanna (12:06):

And he wants to fly fighter pilot like jets like

Rachel (12:10):

Fast. So he flies the KC 1 35. So when you're in military training, they train you on basically everything at the beginning just so that you know what you would be interested in flying or what you're good at flying. And they kind of tell you

(12:25):

He loved fighter pilot, he loved the fighter life. And I'll just say it out loud, if you're a military wife, you get it, you're probably nodding your head, but fighter culture is totally different than what they call heavy culture. Heavies is the bigger, bigger planes. So we just knew what was going to be a best fit for us in our family and our future and our other goals. And fighter pilot life just wasn't for us. So I think in a dream world we could have tried to make it happen, but it just wasn't going to happen. So he flies the Casey five, he

Shanna (12:56):

Flies the heavy five.

Rachel (12:57):

Got it. He flies a heavy. Got

Shanna (12:59):

It. I love it. I'm learning so much.

Rachel (13:01):

I know I learned so much. And I like to be the SparkNotes translator for my friends that aren't in the military life. There's a lot to it. But now he flies a gas station basically and they refuel planes in the air while they're flying

Shanna (13:15):

Wild. That is so cool. My husband edits our podcast that he's going to be loving this whole conversation

Rachel (13:19):

Geeking out. I love

Shanna (13:20):

It. Geeking out. And Lauren on my team, he probably spoke with her husband is a military fighter pilot. Nice. And we have all the pilots in our life and we love it. Look that.

Rachel (13:33):

Look at us.

Shanna (13:33):

Go look at us. Go. Okay. So you just wanted to have some work and maybe work is even the wrong word. You wanted to have an outlet to love on others in a season of life that felt unknown moving, a lot of change. So you started the blog and then because in 2018 podcasting was still pretty, what made you say, I'm going to start a podcast that was still pretty new, right? Early to market?

Rachel (14:08):

Oh yeah. No one had a podcast. It was like me, crime junkies and churches putting their sermons up somewhere for audio version from Sunday. That was really it. And there was a few other, of course like a handful, but it was not the industry it is today. I started the podcast because I had a friend in a similar boat. Her husband was deployed. We both were just trying to find purpose with our season and we were trying to find content that could encourage us in ways that we learned, which was audio. We knew podcast customer a thing. I love listening to podcasts, but I didn't think that I could start one. I didn't understand how easy it was at the time and we just went for it. We did a summer project. We said let's give it eight to 10 weeks. And we didn't start it to be what it is today by any means.

(14:52):

We started it because again, for us we needed an outlet, a project, creative space. So we just did it. We did it over the eight weeks. Something happened like call it favor, call it opportunity, call it. We were meeting the market with what it needed. I'm not sure something happened and our listenership went up crazy amount. We started having guests on the show. Then we started, for some reason we still aren't sure how we kind of joke about it. We ended up on agency lists. So I'm trying to figure out how to explain it. If someone were to write a book or someone were to write a song, think like Carrie Joe, Matthew West, Lisa Turkers, these kind of people, if they write a book, their publishing house or whoever is helping them provides them typically with an agency that gets them in their book or whatever their new project is out in front of people.

(15:46):

That's through radio shows, TV interviews, podcast episodes. And so we ended up on that list somehow and started getting pitched massive names. People I should not be sitting with on a computer as just like, I think, how old was I at the time? A 23-year-old that didn't really know what she was talking about, but we did get the opportunity so we just went for it. So about a year into it we realized, okay, we have conversations, opportunities, people are calling us to get some ad space on the show. This is no more cute summer project. So what do we want to do with this? My friend decided this was such a fun run. I bless you to go on your own. I didn't know this is what we were signing up for and it makes so much sense for you, but I cannot carry this. Well. Yeah, because

Shanna (16:37):

Weekly publishing

Rachel (16:39):

It's a big deal. It really was a lot.

Shanna (16:41):

And you, so you have no idea how you got on this list, but

Rachel (16:50):

Our genre when we first started was I think religion and spirituality. And so typically publishers like Zondervan and Harvest, you got found looking for these,

Shanna (17:01):

They found us. And then it's like, okay, here you go. Here's all the things. Get the people on.

Rachel (17:06):

And it perpetuated this beast because when we have larger, well-known guests on our show, they share our show, our show grows, we get other larger guests, other larger guests come on share our show grows. So it kind of became this snowball effect and yeah, it happened fast.

Shanna (17:28):

Okay, so now you're like, I'm moving forward with this year in, I mean were you just taking it day by day where people were like, Hey, I want to pay you for ad space. You're like, okay, great. Did you figure out how to monetize the work and was the money even a motivator for you? Did you want to monetize it?

Rachel (17:49):

Yes, because it's a lot of work and I wanted to be paid for my time. At that point, I was editing the show, I was doing all the admin of back and forth with different agents with these guests. I was doing the logistics and creating the links to get the people on the show. It was a lot that was doing on my own. Granted, this was before I had kids, it was just Thomas and I had just quit a corporate e job to be available for the podcast. I really felt like there was momentum and wanted to be obedient in that. And we also had just kind a crazy ish life once we had settled in Birmingham for a moment. I don't know, I just wanted to put my attention where it needed to be and it felt like that. So I dug my heels in deep and I did the work and it was a day by day. We still did an episode every Wednesday and I edit it every week. And we recorded, we would batch record a ton of interviews at once and then have three or four months worth and then I would do it all again. And it was a lot. But I will say I felt like I saw vision through it. I felt like it had a direction. I knew that one day I wasn't going to be doing it on my own.

Shanna (18:56):

I

Rachel (18:56):

Knew that one day the podcast world and industry had to keep up and catch up and provide me people, teams, opportunity systems that I was having to create on my own. And today, looking back, we do have all those things and I don't do that. And I literally sit behind a microphone and everyone else carries the rest of the machine and it's incredible. But it came from me having to know the nitty gritty, the ins and outs and all the details of how it should be done and how I wanted it to be done excellently so that I could actually invite someone else to do it for me and not just feel like, ah, I don't know what's happening. Can you help me? Yes. Yeah, I knew it was happening.

Shanna (19:36):

Rachel, I love that you said that so much because as business owners we are asked to do so many things we were never trained or equipped to do. Be the CFO, be the CEO, be the marketing team, be the graphics team, be the web designer, be the copywriter in your case, edit a podcast, be a producer, be a sound mechanic,

Rachel (19:56):

All of it. But

Shanna (19:57):

I think, and this is what I tell all my students, all my clients, I want you to know, so I teach finance, but it's like I want you to know enough about your numbers

Rachel (20:06):

Where

Shanna (20:07):

You can almost critique and evaluate someone you're hiring to do it. Because if we just have no idea, it's the same. My husband joined us officially in 2021 and he does so many things, but SEO being one of them, it's like I didn't even know what SEO meant. When computers, technology and my brain hurts. I'm like, I at least need to know enough where I can be strategic about it, be thoughtful with it, understand, and then I can leave it to the experts. But yeah, I love how you're like, it's good that you had to learn these things and now you can

Rachel (20:46):

Hire team, it gets you good. So when you do hire a team, sure they're carrying out the responsibilities, but I do think it's important that I know what's going on and why it's being done so that if we needed to pivot or I saw an opportunity, I knew how to ask the people that were doing the things, how to pivot with me or if I needed to make a decision about holidays, for example, are right now. And I just feel like holiday content is out there. So we're trying to figure out how do we make the most of this and how do we get affiliate links out to people and how do we all these things. And so for a team that understands what I'm trying to do and I understand and respect that it takes them to do it. I don't know. We're lean and mean and it makes sense and we get it. And so when we need to get a bigger direction moving, everyone can kind of all be hands in and understand it and not feel like, well, this is my job, this is what I do. Everyone just gets it. So

Shanna (21:43):

Rachel most. So I feel like podcasts are kind of one of two ways. One, it's a marketing platform, growing your brand, getting an audience, growing reach. But for you, the podcast was your original offer. It was the original way of making revenue. And now would you say through the growth, so five years now, you mentioned affiliate links. Is it still kind of though your main We have a podcast.

Rachel (22:19):

Yeah. It's so funny. So we're sitting in a lot of meetings right now for just different projects and everyone is trying to make sense of our numbers. They're like, you have this many followers, but you have this many clicks and conversion. Your conversion is so high, how does that, what's going on? And I'm like, I think it's because I'm not just some girl that grew a following on Instagram when Instagram was really cool and gangbuster it up and did all the things and then all of a sudden someone's like, oh, you should have another platform, start a podcast. Then I start a podcast and I'm not a celeb that decided to start a podcast with all the juicy things that I know in the entertainment world. I'm just a girl that started a podcast and people like to listen and some people choose to follow me on other platforms.

(23:06):

So yeah, the podcast is really my main thing. That's what I try to tell businesses too. When we're working with ad sales or any opportunity for somebody else to be basically have a billboard on our show is kind how I describe it. It is so worth it. Sure. I'm not a celebrity and yeah, I haven't written five books, but I have an audience of people that show up every Wednesday for the past five years, and I'm, I say, you need this vacuum. They're like, I trust you. I'll buy the vacuum. And it's not like, oh look, it's not like, oh, look at me, I can sell vacuums. I'm like, no. I have done so much behind the work scenes to create a place people can come to every week where I don't publish shows if

Shanna (23:46):

For real talk. Yeah,

Rachel (23:48):

Real talk. Yeah. They know that I've had interviews that I will never publish because it didn't go well, and I'm not just going to do it. So I have content. They know that I've come back on the show and been like, okay, I have to admit something. I told y'all to buy this lipstick last week. And actually I hate it. I am that girl that has the real talk. So when I say so-and-so goes, they're like, okay, we're with you. And I'm so thankful for that because I needed that girl in my life. So if I can be that girl, big sister, twin sister, whatever, for someone else, I'm happy to be. And so that's where, yeah, the podcast is our main thing. And it translates well. It converts really well for sales. But bigger than that, I think, and I say this every time the audience in the podcast space is different.

(24:36):

This is the girl, if you're trying to build the girl who listens to my podcast, she wants to become better. She is interested in parenting better, doing business better, being a better spouse, or at least learning something or trying to be affirmed in it. Or she is in the car and she's not going to turn on a song. She's going to turn on a self-help situation, maybe real talk. And those are the girls that make moves. Those are the girls that go for it. Those are the girls that listen in and do something with the content, whether it's buy something, share something, show up to events we host. So I am all in the podcast world right now because those are my girls. They get me and I feel like I know them now, which is so

Shanna (25:19):

Sweet. Bessy, I love podcasting. So I struggled with, I quit Instagram 2017, and I, so many people listening know this side part of my story, but I struggled so much. I knew content blogging, SEO, Pinterest, I wanted to create a more sustainable marketing for my business, but I'm a slow writer. I'm so bad at grammar and spelling, oh, I'm good at money. That is the God given gift. God has given me a brain for a strategy, business strategy, finance, everything else I'm pretty much not great at. And so when I stumbled into podcasting, this is maybe a year and a half in a year, in a year and a half, showing up every week. I'm so proud of myself honestly. But finding it is just been a sweet place to, and I'm late probably. I'm very late to the podcasting, but I just love getting to have these conversations. So I love what you said. When you find for you, this is your space, this is the way you're serving, this is the way that you're showing up. So will you talk about though learning about pricing, taking on advertisers, what went well? Did you have some train wreck moments where just that wasn't the right fit? Walk me through how the podcast grew and then how it now is a revenue generating business model for you.

Rachel (26:58):

Yes. So I should say that there are lots of different streams of revenue here. I don't want someone to hear me and be like, I make all of my income on ads. Yes, that's a part of it, but that's not all of it. So just to map it all out, we have ad space for sure. We have affiliate, so just commissionable links. So we'll have, for people that don't know, it's like brands that give you a specific link that is tracked and it takes a portion out of someone else's purchase with no extra cost to them to pay you as a thank you for sharing. And then we have merchandise sales, we do retail and then we do events. And the event ticket really isn't like, I mean when I say we do events, I mean maybe we do one a year, but it's a fun way just to have a retail out in person to meet people behind a microphone and a computer screen all the time. We don't know who's listening on the other side. So this is a fun way for me to be filled back up and to say, hey, and hug people in real life. So that's a blast. So those are kind of all of our different ones. If I think of another one, I'll let you know. But typically that's it.

Shanna (28:05):

Did you ever feel unequipped to grow the business? And secondary question, did you ever want to stop having podcast conversations?

Rachel (28:18):

I feel a bit of imposter syndrome almost every day about something I am. For example, I'm sitting in my office space right now, people can't see, but I'm sitting in office space and just want to be real. What we do in real talk, right? It has a Christmas tree, it has a rug, and it has a card table from Target, and I have my microphone set up on a card table and last week it was a hamper. So I have these moments where I'm like, what the heck am I doing? And is it working? I can't tell. And that's why I think knowing your numbers is so important because your brain will lie and numbers. So you can figure out is something working? Is it not? If it's not working, stop maybe, or reevaluate. Don't let your heart convince you like, oh, this is a good idea.

(29:05):

So I feel like I'm learning a lot as far as feeling I do. I think that's also why it's so important to have a team paid or not. I think it's important to have someone from an outside of your own brain and body looking in and saying, this makes sense, this is worth it. This is not, or I like that idea, but let's try it differently. So for me, that does look like Thomas. He's on our team, not full-time, of course, but he helps a lot with sales negotiation. And just candidly, it helps to have a guy have those conversations. We've been on a lot of phone calls where it's been me and my girly girl. She's my right hand girl. Her name's I am confident in our skills, but for some reason, I'm just going to say it, the men on the other side of the phone feel like they can chew us up and spit us out and they can't.

(29:50):

And we stand our ground and it either we grow respect or they realize I don't think this is a good fit. I'm like, okay. So it just helps to have a deep voice, some testosterone in the negotiation conversations. It's kind of annoying, but that's just how it's for us. I think they think we're a cute podcast and we're trying to figure it out. And we have figured it out. We're bigger than people think. We've done this for five years and our numbers are our numbers. So it's been interesting to say the least, but, but having Thomas is on our team is great. I have Emily, she's my right hand girl. She sees the vision with me, she cheers me on, she calls me back. She is the strength to my balloon. And then we have a producer team and they have so much fun with our podcast.

(30:30):

They have made it super fun to listen to. They edit, pull insights, publish all the things. And then we recently signed with a network about six months ago, and they help a little bit with sales too. They help us run programmatic ads, which is like if you're listening to Pandora and you don't have the upgrade, it's like that. But for podcasts, we have a lot of people with their hands in the pot with ownership, which can sound tricky, but the right people, it creates an incredible formula and situation. So when you say, do you feel Ill-equipped, I say all that to say I do. But with someone else looking in, they can either tell me, you actually are ill-equipped. I do think we need to outsource this and shoot it to me straight. Or they can hype me up and be like, there's no one else that can sit behind the microphone.

(31:16):

We need you to show up this week. I'm like, okay. And if it can't be paid for the people that are listening that are like, that's fun, maybe one day. No, I think it can also be today. I think there's a lot of creative ways to get other people speaking truth into whatever you're doing. It can be an intern from a local college that needs some college credit and some experience like hire an intern or just get a board together. I did that right after my friend Mary Scott left. I felt a little bit lost with direction wanting to steward this well. So I invited a friend of mine who's in ministry, a friend of mine who's a CPA, a friend of mine who is just really fun and creative and quirky, and I just could trust hers. I just invited a lot of other voices I knew that knew me, but I also trusted, and I'd meet with them about once a month and be like, this is what's going on.

(32:03):

This is where I feel lost. Does this make sense? And having them really helped and they weren't paid. They showed up. They loved me and they wanted the best for me. So I feel like love that idea, Rachel. I love that you just need people, especially if you're an entrepreneur, trying to wade these waters alone and keep your passion alive. So with that, and as far as stepping away from podcasts, yes, I will say just quickly, no, there's weeks that I'm like, I don't want to do it. But I think more, it's not burnout, it's not an overall, I don't know, I should shut this down. Burnout. I think I'm tired. I think I'm taking this for granted. I think I just need to rest for a second, not give up. And I think that is because I have people that are like, Emily does this all the time. She's like, I don't know, Kaylee just messaged you yesterday and said that this is what she got out of that podcast. What if you hadn't done it? What if it was just for Kaylee? And I'm like, okay. And so then I imagine Kaylee's face next time behind a microphone. And that has kept me, I just feel responsible. So no, I haven't felt like I need to step away yet.

Shanna (33:14):

Yeah. I have a couple of questions that are off script, but let me before I get to those, because I wrote 'em down so I won't forget because otherwise I Sure will. Looking back over the past five years, do you see any major shifts, pivots, changes with this business and the business mission slash the business model?

Rachel (33:37):

Yeah, a little bit. I think there was a pivot and a shift when Emily came on board because Emily, like I said, just refresh is my right hand girl. She's remote based out of Houston, Texas. She was a teacher that wanted to get out of the classroom and just be at home more with her kids. We had a job opening, basically I just needed help with anything and I wasn't sure what I needed help with, but I needed help. She came on board and is an angel. She's crazy cool. Knows me better than maybe many people do, almost as much as Thomas. She just gets it. But she also was a listener to the podcast for the three years before she came on board. I love it. So she as a listener was like, this is what I like. This is what works. This is what people are looking for.

(34:25):

This is what you should do more of. This is what I hated listening to your podcast. And so I feel like there was a really cool momentum that started when she came on board because she gave a better, bigger picture. And then I would also say when we started having a little bit more intense and aggressive, I guess you could say, I hate that word, but aggressive sales calls about six months ago. Partly it was because I just became a little bit more unapologetic about what I was doing. And I was like, at the end of the day, it takes money to do this, whether it's subscriptions or paying my office rent or whatever it is, people listen for free for the past five years. Every Wednesday I need something. So I just got a little bit more aggressive and felt like with the confidence came opportunity.

(35:10):

And I think it was because people can believe you if you believe in you. And I will also add, we saw a lot of opportunity when we picked up a phone. I think as a practical, we got out of the email threads. We were like, Hey, let's get on a call, zoom, FaceTime, text me, you pick, but it ain't going to be an email thread anymore. And people are like, I respect that. And we have had real conversations, have become friends with our brands, have had higher return rates, I guess you could say, people wanting to work with us again, I think just because they're, at the end of the day, they're easy to work with, they're a lot of fun. And I believe in what they're doing, and I think they heard our voice and they heard passion, and they know us as people, not as our little circle in the corner of our Gmail. And that works too. So I would say those are the three things that really I felt like caused a good shift.

Shanna (36:07):

Okay. I love it. So I want to talk about forklift balance in just a second, but before we go there, I would love to hear, if you don't mind, to share about podcast saturation, how the market has really shifted and how that has affected you. And then on top of that, you mentioned earlier your numbers, your conversions. You can show those two brands that you are asking for advertising dollars, but in the world of influencers and social media numbers and your worth is based on how many likes you get. I'm joking about that, but that's, I have stories about That's

Rachel (36:51):

Yeah.

Shanna (36:52):

How have you fought for the numbers you have? Because we on this side, just to be transparent, have been turned down from certain things because I've chosen not to be on social media, but I'm like, you're not looking at all the other numbers in my business though. And so you have to kind of fight for different numbers when people are used to just like, okay, go to Instagram, see followers, see viewership. So podcast saturation, how have you dealt with that? And then getting advertisers to look at numbers maybe they don't typically look at,

Rachel (37:25):

Yeah, podcast saturation. Woof. So fun fact, if you have created more than 20 episodes, you now sit at the top 1% of podcasts because most people start a podcast and they don't finish it at all, or they realize how much work it is, they realize actually how much overhead there is. They realize no one's listening to this, or they just want to put up a fun one season, something, something. But if you are consistent, you will naturally outrun the rest. If you've been consistent, you will outrun the rest. Here's where I find it's trickiest is when I'm in a room of people. I was just at a really cool conference about two weeks ago, and the question is, what do you do? Who are you? What do you do? Where are you from? And when I say I have a podcast, they're like, oh, cool, my cousin has a podcast.

(38:18):

You're like, ah, okay, that's so cool, right? You're like, nice. Everyone and their roommate has a podcast now. So you have to figure out, how do you tell them? No, no, no, no, no. I have a podcast podcast without saying that because tricky, because I'm not trying to come off arrogant, but I am so proud of what we built. It's not in a closet. No shame of it is because it's where it started, but it's not on a closet on our voice memos anymore. This is a podcast. And so I don't know how else to say it. So honestly, I don't feel like unless they're interested, I don't owe them. I don't need to convince them it is what it is. And the amount of times that people have been like, oh, no way, that's so cool. Let me look it up. And I give them the name or I show them, or I don't show them, but I tell them what our website is, or I give them my card or whatever it is, they can have their own moment of, oh wow, okay.

(39:16):

And I have let go of needing to prove it or convince or defend or justify what it is. They will figure it out. And if they don't, they're not interested. They're not my people. And I think that that's anything a business owner has to learn. And then as far as, so saturation's really tricky because you just feel like you have to prove it. But I will say it has caused us to be a little bit more creative. So I'm realizing, okay, it's not just email lists. And honestly, the mom that I am, I don't want to be on my emails all day. I'm not checking my emails all day long, honestly, if it's a promo email, I'm deleting it. I can't manage that. So we've turned to text lists like SMS marketing, and it has been huge. And with these creative ways, it has almost given us more language, more proof that we are ahead.

(40:06):

So when someone looks at our numbers and they're like, how are your podcast numbers about to hit 2 million downloads, but you have 36,000 followers on Instagram because the other numbers that are 2 million downloads are celebrities with 200,000 followers on Instagram. And I'm like, because my podcast listeners don't really care about my everyday life necessarily. Some of them do, 36,000 of 'em do, but not all of 'em. But they care about every Wednesday showing up. And if you can get the first 62nd slot of what they listen to loyally every Wednesday, you're golden. And they're like, oh. So I think it's just learning what that brand values. And we've also had to walk away from conversations that's like, they don't value what we value and therefore it won't convert either. It won't translate. And so that's not our person. Thomas came on the team, like I said, about two or three months ago, he had his first sales call with us.

(40:59):

It was awful. And it was unfortunate because with the faith-based company, and the guy came in and was pretty intense, pretty arrogant, and I don't know how to describe it. And long story short, basically we got off the call and he was like, that was so bad we're I know. He's like, is that how it typically goes? I was like, it is typically how it goes. He's like, what do you do? And I'm like, we literally say, it sounds like at the end of the day, this is a question of do you value this or not? And if you don't value what we're offering, then I'm sorry. I don't think we can offer you anything else. And having to walk away and being okay with it, I know that sounds kind of cutthroat, but that's where we're at these days. I guess approaching it a little bit non apologetically has been really helpful for my mental health as well as just the success. And I feel like it's cutting away the fat and focusing on the meat and going back to the people that the ad went really well for two months ago and coming back and being like, that was fun. You got another product, you want to do another run that was a blast. And they're like, heck yeah, let's do it. So just managing what you have well and not worrying if something else falls to the side.

Shanna (42:10):

When you started your podcast, Rachel, you did it because you wanted to show up as a voice for a community that maybe you felt this need to serve, but now there's expenses and there's costs, and how have you set financial goals in your business? How have you wrestled with the numbers side? And then with that, I always like to ask, what's the best thing you've learned about money?

Rachel (42:43):

That's good. Knowing your numbers. I know we've said that a lot, whether it's your insight and your performance and analytics or if it's actually what converts, what works and what doesn't. And running tests and different campaigns and really just experimenting I think has been really important for us because the podcast world specifically is not what it was five years ago. So if we still did it the way it was done, it's not going to work anymore. And I hope we're not doing it the same this time next year as we are right now because it's going to be different. And I think holding things loosely, but with understanding of what you have to offer is really huge. You won't see, I think at the beginning I was really super frugal and I didn't want to, I don't know, get the best microphone or I couldn't afford the best microphone when I first started out, or I wasn't sure if something was going to be worth it.

(43:38):

I'm at the point now where I've seen me taking the risk financially or making the investment and seeing the return, and not all investments have had returns worth it to do it ever again. And so we've learned. But I will say that I have learned overall that when you make an investment, I'll give a concrete example of this space. It might honor your finances, it might honor the culture of what you're creating. It might honor the excellence of what you're trying to create, maybe more than the payoff you'll see up at first. But with that excellence and with the culture and with the energy that comes with making that investment, however big or small, if it was the right one and it returns well, it's so fun to see the fruit of it. So concrete example, like I said, this office space, I was recording the podcast at our dining room table or my nightstand for the past five years.

(44:30):

Finally got to a point I was living the nap time hustle. I was like, I cannot do this anymore. This is not the setting up the tearing down all of this space. We had merchandise, we have merchandise, and it was just living in our garage. It just was creating a lot of frustration, which made it really hard for me to show up every day with a cluttered space or a cluttered mind because the kids were upstairs napping. It just didn't work. So to be able to sign a lease pay monthly for a space that I created that is mine, even though I'm recording on a card table, like we already said, it helps create a space where I can clock in, clock out. My family's more honored for it. I can be more here going for it when I'm here because I'm stepping up across the threshold where I'm not having to worry about my kids, and it just helps me. So I think it also helps me put more skin in the game when you make an investment that's worth it. So I would say for somebody who is doing it frugally, I think that there's a lot of applause for that. But I also would challenge you that if there's a level up opportunity that costs money, maybe don't be so fearful to approach it. So that's probably my biggest, yeah.

Shanna (45:43):

Yeah. That's so good. Okay. Speaking of, I want to talk a little bit about work life balance, harmony, and then go into a quick fire round. So how have you seen your business shift in different seasons of life? For instance, having your little people.

Rachel (46:00):

Yeah.

Shanna (46:02):

How have you seen business change?

Rachel (46:05):

I think it was funny, I just talked about this on another podcast where I just shared that there, I will just say naturally, especially with affiliate marketing, there's going to be ebbs and flows. Holiday is so fun and wild and fast paced. Summertimes are typically really fun and fast paced, but fall for some reason right before the holidays or even I guess late summer, it's tricky because people start running out of budget or they're trying to figure out how does put all their marketing money towards what's happening with the holidays. And so we'd naturally see ebb and flows just in this industry. But even so, if you think of personal work-life balance, there have been seasons where I'm not able to show up or I don't want to show up. I'm trying to honor my family, my body take a maternity leave. And so it honestly just takes a lot of preparation from our side thinking through, okay, do we still want to have episodes go up?

(47:02):

Should I just go silent for a few months? Maybe that's not the best opportunity. So I just try to book edit, try to figure out how do I continue to show up in ways, maybe have emails that are still going out thanks to my team, and including some behind the scenes pictures of my home and my things that are happening with my little newborn so that people have a little bit more compassion. Because a lot of this industry that I live in, especially with what I'm trying to create, real talk is being real. And people see that and respect that and applaud it just as much as maybe showing up professionally every single week. So I think it's just taking a moment, stepping back, looking at the bigger picture. And we had talked about earlier to avoid burnout, figure out what you need in order to show up the best that you can.

(47:50):

So yeah, trying to figure out what the season is, what it's looking like, like I said, does take a lot of planning. So I think it also looks like not waiting until the last second to realize, oh no, my due date, it's next week. How am I going to plan for my maternity leave? It looks like sitting down at the beginning of the quarter with your people that we were talking about are on your team and say, what is it that's coming up that we still want to carry through, even if I'm not present? Okay, now how do we make that happen? And so I think just having a plan is something that's really important and people forget about until last minute.

Shanna (48:26):

Yeah. Yeah. I love this so much. I want so much to talk about motherhood with you, but you know what? We're just going to go listen to real talk. Yeah. We'll have to have another conversation. So let's go into a quick fire round. Sure. Okay. One thing you would be embarrassed if people knew

Rachel (48:45):

Hilarious. I will probably fall down a flight of stairs if I'm not counting each step.

Shanna (48:52):

Wait, what?

Rachel (48:53):

I know that's a super weird, fun fact, but it's not a fun fact I share often, but as I'm walking down stairs, I think I count in my head 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5, 6, 7, and if I lose count or don't count, I probably will trip. It's so weird.

Shanna (49:08):

It keeps you focused

Rachel (49:11):

And to the point where if I walk a staircase enough, I can typically tell you how many stairs are on there because you've counted them so many times.

Shanna (49:19):

You and Sherlock Holmes. Yeah. That's awesome.

Rachel (49:23):

It's so

Shanna (49:23):

Weird. Well, that's interesting. Okay, Rachel,

Rachel (49:26):

I know you probably were looking for something a little bit less like fun fact, but that's it.

Shanna (49:30):

I love it. I love it. Any regrets or wish you could do over moments?

Rachel (49:36):

Oh man. Is motherhood full of them? I think that's what I'm learning. I mean, I guess not regrets, but it's fun because I now have, like I said, a one-year-old. And so a lot of the things that I wish I had done differently with Maddox, my two and a half year old, I get to try again with Oliver and not necessarily, I don't know, I wish I didn't feed him X, Y, Z, but oh man, I really wish I cuddled him a little bit longer or was a little bit more patient with this process. And so I say right now I'm learning a ton about motherhood, but one of them is just the grace that knowing I did the best I can. I just want to caveat that, but I feel like leaning into the newborn is so hard in the moment, but I think you just asked that. And that's timely on my mind. As far as business goes regret, I think creating anything that isn't necessarily evergreen and counting on it to last forever, big regret. We've wasted a lot of time on certain projects that didn't last along with us.

Shanna (50:39):

It was like a quick win and then gone. Yeah, I hear that. And on the motherhood piece, thank you for sharing. I love hearing since I currently have one on the way in a two and a half year old. It's fun to get to hear you say just things you learned with the first that you could do with the second. Yeah, yeah. Big win or pinch me moment.

Rachel (51:03):

Ooh, this was a fun one, but when we rebranded the podcast back in July, we had landed a presenting sponsor, which is just fancy term for someone who is a sponsor and has their logo on your cover photo. And they have an ad on the first few episodes and basically they made the rebrand possible is kind of how it's pitched. And we had one and it was Dream, it was with Stanley, like Stanley Cups. That one was so fun. Lots of legalese, lots of moments. You want to pull your hair out and you're like, whoa. Not because of Stanley. I guess just because of

(51:40):

It was the first time we had ever done something like it. We learned a ton, but that was so cool to be able to launch it with an a-list Brand's logo on our cover photo is wild. And then I've had a lot of pinch me moments with just sitting behind the computer and sometimes even in person, heck, these days I feel like I sit in person a lot. People being able to hear from women or even men that I admire in the faith space and being like, I cannot believe I'm talking to you right now. I had this one interview with Carrie Job two years ago, and it was right before one of her albums came out and I just was asking her about, do you have a story behind how one of the first songs was written? She's like, I do. And then she sang it live. So amazing. Just for me. I think we did have video on that and my jaw just dropped and I literally had to pick it up off the floor. I can't believe it was happening. That's a fun pinch me.

Shanna (52:32):

Yeah. That's so cool. Well, the opportunities, so many things we have to learn, but then just these cool opportunities that you never would've had, so I love it. That's right. Alright. Best advice or just really good advice that you have received?

Rachel (52:49):

Oh man, there's like four in my mind. I'm like, which one do I pick? Yeah, someone has told me this and I'll never forget it, but if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together, you can get anywhere you want really quickly by sprinting, but it won't last you long. Or when you get there, you'll be tired and won't be able to actually enjoy your destination. And I feel like having people alongside you, whether it's friends, interns, hired help aboard, like we had talked about, is so incredibly important for keeping stamina and direction and having just some outside voices to see into what you're doing.

Shanna (53:24):

Yeah, I love it. Yeah, I'm taking that board idea and I'm going to go talk to Kyle about it right now.

Rachel (53:30):

No, you should.

Shanna (53:31):

Last quick fire and then we'll send it off. What are you working on now or one resource that you would like to share?

Rachel (53:38):

Ooh, well, this is a fun one. I think this can just land with anyone who's listening, but if you wanted to see how it's done or just have some fun as a consumer, whatever, or market research, text the word bestie, B-E-S-T-I-E to the number 5, 5, 4, 4, 4. And you can get an idea of how we do text list stuff, email marketing. It'll get you on all of our lists. That's a resource I would love to drop just if people wanted to spy on how we're doing things.

Shanna (54:05):

All right, bestie. Got it.

Rachel (54:07):

Bestie 2, 5, 5, 4, 4, 4. And it'll take you through a little thread and you can sign up and make sure everything's correct. But then as far as what I'm working on now, ooh, that's a good question. We have a lot of things in the oven. Not sure which one's going to finish first. I will say we are, this is exciting, and I'm literally staring at the boxes the furniture is in right now, but we right after I get off this call are starting to assemble furniture for our office space that's also going to be a studio. And so being able to upgrade some video content and we have some of our interviews up on YouTube, but just being able to do that more excellently is something I'm super excited about. So y'all stay tuned. It's going to be a lot of fun.

Shanna (54:48):

Awesome. Congrats.

Rachel (54:50):

Thanks,

Shanna (54:51):

Rachel. This has been so much fun. It's been a joy ticket to sit with you, and I just want you to send it off with taking it back, recording that very first podcast episode. What would you tell yourself on day one?

Rachel (55:06):

I would say take a deep breath and do it. Only you can do it. There are a lot of podcasts out there, and there's probably a lot of whatever anyone else listening is doing out there, but the only way that you can do it differently is by doing it your way and doing it excellently. And so don't try to be, whoever else in the industry is killing it because they're already killing it. But also, don't be afraid to show up if it's oversaturated. I mean, you walk into Sephora, there's so many different lipstick brands, but everyone has a favorite. So just do what you do really well. And I love saying this, but God only has one shot at you being you. So what does it look like for you to fulfill all that he has called for you? And that looks like walking humbly in step with him, asking about direction and then being obedient and doing it no matter how crazy or slow or fast it seems.

Shanna (56:02):

Yeah. I love it. Rachel, thank you so much for coming on the show, sharing your story, spending time with me. It's just been, thank you. Such a treat.

Rachel (56:10):

You are a blast. Thank you so much.

Shanna (56:13):

Hey, wildflower, you just finished another episode of Consider the Wildflowers, the podcast. Head over to consider the wildflowers podcast.com for show notes, resource links, and to learn how can connect with Rachel. I was watching a movie the other day. I wish I remembered which one. So I'm sorry I'm apologizing in advance. I don't. But this quote was so powerful, it stuck with me. Sometimes when you find yourself in a dark place, you get to decide if it is a burial or a planting. As always, thank you for listening. I'll see you next time.