079. Katie Williams: How to Sell Luxury Handcrafted Products

Katie Williams, owner of Mississippi Stitches, took up sewing while she was in nursing school. She started a small side business, but quickly realized it wasn’t sustainable on top of her studies believing she couldn’t charge enough for each pillow to make a sustainable income.

So Katie set sewing aside and worked as a pediatric nurse for 10 years. When she bought her first house, it inspired her to start sewing again. She re-opened her shop, this time as a ready-to-ship business instead of taking custom orders.

If you’ve ever wondered what it takes to build a successful business selling handcrafted products, this episode is for you! You’ll learn how Katie finds customers for her high-end luxury products, the one shift she made that had the biggest impact on sales, and the key to making $100,000 her first year in business.

WILDFLOWER SHOWNOTES : shannaskidmore.com/katie-williams

Transcript

Katie (00:00):

Actually, I was out fishing with my dad that summer and I told him, I was like, I think I want to quit. I mean, I quit nursing. And he said, oh, so business is doing that great. And I was like, well, no. Actually, at the time I think I was in $2,000 in debt. I may have had $2,000 in sales or something for that year. And he kind of laughed, was like, I mean, at the time I thought he was probably shaking in his boots. But that first year, like I said, I pushed myself hard. I tried to stay on task, I set routines, set schedules, and I ended up with sales almost a hundred thousand dollars that first year.

Shanna (00:36):

You are listening to Consider the Wildflowers the podcast. Episode 79, Katie Williams, owner of Mississippi Stitches took up sewing while she was in nursing school. She started a small side business, but quickly realized it wasn't sustainable. On top of her studies believing she couldn't charge enough for each pillow to make a sustainable income. So Katie set sewing aside and worked as a pediatric nurse for 10 years. When she bought her first home, it inspired her to start sewing again. She reopened her shop this time as a ready to ship business instead of taking custom orders. If you've ever wondered what it takes to build a successful business selling handcrafted luxury high-end products, this episode is for you. You'll learn how Katie finds customers for her high-end luxury handmade products. The one shift she made that had the biggest impact on sales and the key to making a hundred thousand dollars in her first year of business.

(01:26):

If you dig professional bios, here goes. Katie Williams is the owner and seamstress behind Mississippi. Stitches an online custom designer pillow shop. Since the end of 2019, she's helped her retail and interior design. Clients provide the finishing touches they need for a more welcoming atmosphere. Katie has a passion for curating timeless patterns and colorways that will make your home the inviting space you desire it to be. She's the proud dog mom to her five-year-old Pup Ruth, who provides all the entertainment to her followers on Instagram. In Katie's free time, you'll find her in the field along with Ruth or in her vegetable garden trying to develop a green thumb. Okay, formal introduction's over. Let's dive in. Hey, it's Shanna, and this is Consider the Wildflowers, the podcast. For the past 15 plus years, I've had the honor to hear thousands of stories from entrepreneurs around the world.

(02:13):

As a former Fortune 100 financial advisor turned business consultant, I have a unique opportunity to see the reel. Behind the highlight reel. I'm talking profit and loss statements, unpaid taxes, moments of burnout, and those of utter victory. Or as my husband says, the content everyone is wondering but not many are talking about. And now I'm bringing these private conversations to you. Hear the untold stories of how industry leaders, founders, and up and coming entrepreneurs got their start, the experiences that shaped them and the journey to building the brands they have today. Stories that will inspire and reignite encourage to redefine success and build a life in business on your own terms. Welcome Wildflower. I'm so glad you're here. Okay, Katie. Hi. Welcome to the show. Hi.

Katie (02:54):

Thank you. I'm glad to be here.

Shanna (02:56):

This is going to be so fun. And as I was kind of telling before, so I'm from Tennessee and I have a southern accent, but I've worked in finance for so long. You kind of drop it a little bit. And we've lived in Atlanta and Minnesota, but anytime I talk to you've been

Katie (03:14):

All over. Yeah,

Shanna (03:15):

Yeah. Someone southern or someone in my family, my husband Kyle, who's from Ohio is like, are you talking to your mom or your sister, your grandma or your sister? So I'm excited to see this how my southern accent gets thicker.

Katie (03:30):

We're going to feed off each other on that. I do the same. I mean, I've been in Mississippi all my life, and so I feel like it's just inherent. I can't talk any other way. But it is funny, when you're around other people from the south, it just gets deeper and deeper and deeper.

Shanna (03:44):

I know, and it's so funny. Some people think southern accents are beautiful and some southern accents are really beautiful. And then there's, they like other southern accents.

Katie (03:54):

Sometimes I listen to people, I'm like, oh my gosh, no. But I do. I think a lot of people are so intrigued by it. It certainly draws you in.

Shanna (04:03):

Okay, last thing about accents and then we'll actually talk about business. When we lived in Minnesota, it was so funny because people, when we first moved there, they're like, you don't sound like you're from Tennessee. And I was like, just wait, just wait. And so the longer we lived there, the more I think moving away from home gives you more pride in, for me at least, gives you more pride in where you're from. And so I feel like I got my Tennessee got thicker and thicker the longer I lived there. Although I did really enjoy our time in Minnesota, shockingly because shocking me, snow, me and snow. It's so

Katie (04:37):

Cold.

Shanna (04:39):

I really went, I don't do snow. And it's funny now. So I have a toddler, which is so cute, and we just had kind of a big snowstorm for Tennessee and a week of snow. And it's funny, and I totally get it now because we get so little snow. I mean, you understand Katie, that you don't buy snow gear. So my mom would be like, put plastic bags over your shoes and socks on your hand.

Katie (05:04):

The wax paper on the baking sheet.

Shanna (05:06):

I mean, you're using a cardboard box as a S slides. And it was like, go for it. And so that was my experience with snow. I was cold and I was wet. And you don't have the proper gear because it's like we're not going to invest in gear and in a year from now, you're not going to be able to wear it. You

Katie (05:20):

Don't even fit in it.

Shanna (05:21):

And so when my husband though grew up in Ohio, and so he did get snow and he loved it. He did the snowman and getting to sled, and so he had these fond memories of snow. So when we moved to Minnesota, I went kicking and screaming. But anyways, ended up falling in love with snow and winter and just the calmness and the quiet. And so it was really fun these past couple weeks where we

Katie (05:43):

Got to do, I like the one day snow when it's fresh and pretty and white and calm, but after that I'm like, give me the sunshine and the beach and the summer, I do not, I get cabin fever in the winter. I am just not cold weather person.

Shanna (05:58):

So it was just funny. Take a Tennessee girl and mover to, I think there's a movie about that. Okay. Hi. It's probably a Hallmark movie. Absolutely is. I'm going to post it in the show notes because it's so

Katie (06:10):

Funny.

Shanna (06:11):

Welcome. I'm just so glad we're here and we get to share about your business. Before we kick it back to life before business and how this all got started, will you tell everybody who you are and what your business is today? Yes.

Katie (06:24):

My name is Katie. I am in Mississippi. I'm an owner seamstress. I have an online custom designer pillow shop that I started, I guess full-time back in at the end of 2019. I work with retail clients. I have interior designer clients, and I just help them provide quality finishing pieces for their spaces. I do all the handcrafting of the pillows in my own home, in my small, little teeny, teeny workroom. But it's been such a joy to be able to brighten people's spaces, give them something that they'll love for years. It's just a lot of fun. Are

Shanna (06:57):

All of your pieces one of a kind?

Katie (07:01):

Yeah, so I work, all of the sourcing I do, all of the fabrics are, well, most of them are to the trade only, meaning you're not going to find these in your local retail shop. So they're unique in that regard. And I do custom work, so when you order for me, you pick the size you want, the style you want, trim options, all kinds of things. So yes, they are for the most part, very unique, one of a kind to your space. They're not ready-made off the shelf, that kind of thing. Yeah,

Shanna (07:30):

Yeah. They're so beautiful. Oh, thank you. My grandmother is a seamstress. She did custom wedding dresses and draper. Oh, wow. So I always love talking with other

Katie (07:42):

People who, well, that's so funny. Nowadays, so I'm in my fixing be in my upper thirties, I think I can say nobody sows anymore. It's such a, I mean it's a necessity, but it's kind of sad to me. And I say that knowing I cannot do apparel. If you ask me to he a pair of pants, I might can hem it, but altering your grandmother doing wedding dresses, that is a skill, a mad skill. I'm impressed by that.

Shanna (08:07):

She is so, so good. Okay. What were you doing before you started your business and how did this all get going?

Katie (08:18):

You talk about a wild journey. So I'm a pediatric nurse by trade. I went to Mississippi State and I actually have a marketing degree from Mississippi State, and I immediately entered nursing school. I graduated in the financial crisis of oh 8, 0 9, and the writing was kind of on the wall that it was going to be difficult to find a job. Things were, it's just a chaotic season. I think everybody in that era remembers how bad it was. And so I just decided, my mom was working in our local children's hospital. She was working for the newborn nursery, and I went to visit her a couple times and I was like, you know what? I could do nursing. This looks like something fun. So I decided halfway through Mississippi State that I wanted to enter nursing school. But I loved business so much. I loved my marketing classes.

(09:07):

So I opted to continue that, got my marketing degree, immediately went to nursing school. And then when I graduated nursing school, I became a pediatric nurse. I worked for about 10 years in the hospital and clinic setting. Specifically, I did pediatric oncology, hematology oncology. So I worked in our local cancer clinic and then did bone marrow transplant for my last two years there. I loved it. I absolutely loved it. But something, I don't know what shifted something in 2019 just didn't feel right. I had this urgency that entire year that I just needed to change. Wasn't sure what I wanted to do. I was sewing on the side at this time, and I'll get into that a little bit. I was sewing, wasn't making a whole lot of money, but I was like, I enjoyed that more. Even though, like I said, I was completely happy in my role, but something just felt like I needed to make a change. So at the end of 2019, I thought, if I don't do this now, I never will. So I left, I quit and I took a part-time nursing job. I didn't quit nursing completely. I took a school nurse job so I could pay a few bills just in case

(10:17):

Just to have a backup plan. But I think y'all all remember that in 2020 something big happened. So in March of 2020, I was actually furloughed from my nursing job, and so I really had to depend on my pillow shop full time. So that was scary, but it obviously worked out. I've been doing this for four years now. I'm no longer school nursing. I left that role over I guess about a year ago now. Completely gave that up. So it's just me and the pillows now, which is a big, to go from A to B. It took a lot of different little steps to get here.

Shanna (10:49):

Katie, when you left pediatric nursing, is that a career where you can go back? I mean, you have to keep your

Katie (10:59):

Yeah. Yeah,

Shanna (11:00):

Because a big deal. That's a big, big deal.

Katie (11:03):

So that's the other thing. Well, I'll kind of get into this a little bit too, but I do currently still have my license, but I think it's this year. It's either this year or next year that my license will expire and I'll have to make a decision. In Mississippi, you don't have to have continuing education, but you do have to work so many hours. And since I will not have been working, I won't necessarily be able to renew my license. So I'm in that debate stage. A lot of people will tell and they continue to tell me this, and I know it's good advice that you worked really hard for that license. You shouldn't give it up. But to me, it's almost like, this is going to sound backwards, but it's almost like I'm not giving my pillow shop the full if I always have a backup plan. When people say you can always fall back on nursing, you're just holding onto and not really given the business the opportunity it needs. So in some ways, I feel like letting go of that license or letting go of that hits me at a better advantage for my pillow shot to do better. Does that make sense?

Shanna (12:05):

Absolutely. Like that saying, burn the ships or whatever. That saying, you can't go back.

Katie (12:12):

And I honestly, it would be great to have that as an opportunity that, again, I loved my role, but it's also very specialized and I'm not sure anybody wants me to be their nurse anymore. I've been so far removed, even four years, so much has changed. So it's just the thought of what do I want to do with the rest of my life?

Shanna (12:32):

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Tell me about those early days with starting the Pillow shop. Did you get a website? Why custom pillows? How did you figure out pricing? Just were you like, I have to replace my salary. Just kind of walk me through how you went from I do this on the side as a hobby. This is my career.

Katie (12:58):

So back in 2000, I guess it was 14 or 15, I learned how to sew while I was in school, taught myself how to sew. I wanted to sew a machine. And for Christmas that year, my parents gave me one, and I was doing all kinds of little projects for myself. And then a few years later, so 2014, I decided to upgrade my machine and I got a machine that had a monogramming needle to it so I could do embroidery monogramming things as well as so, and that kind of got me thinking about just a side business, picking up some extra cash, just having some extra spending money. And so I actually started Mississippi Stitches technically in 2014, got an LLC, opened up shops, started ordering product, had my tax id, all of those things. So I did that for about a year and a half, and I got so burn out because it was a lot of effort, a lot of work for not much money.

(13:52):

I mean, you don't charge, I didn't charge enough, but also felt like I couldn't charge more. Nobody's going to pay $20 for a monogram. I just had that in my head that I couldn't charge what I really needed. And so I wasn't making a lot of money for the work I was doing, and I just decided enough is enough. So about a year and a half later, I shut it down and then I bought a house in 2017, bought my first house, moved in, and I thought I want to, so for myself again. So I started doing my drapery, my pillows, and I realized how much I loved that part. I didn't love the little monogramming embroidery work, but I loved the bigger projects.

(14:30):

So in 2000, I guess 18, I reopened just again as a little side business, just started doing ready to ship pillows. So I was making things, I felt like part of the struggle before was I was coming home from work, staying up all night, sewing, doing custom stuff, and again, not feeling like I was making what I should be. So when I opened back up, I thought, well, I'll just do ready to ship stuff. So I'll sit down on a Saturday morning, make a bunch of items, and then I'm not working every night of the week. And that went well. And that's again, so back in 2019, I was doing that and started thinking, okay, I kind of enjoy this. I miss the sewing part, not necessarily the monogramming, but I do miss the sewing. What if I started to do more custom things? People were requesting things.

(15:17):

They were asking for more custom work thought, what if I just do this? You mentioned pricing, that's always a struggle and I still struggle. Am I charging enough? Am I charging too much? And I think that that's probably a struggle for everybody, figuring out what your material cost is, what you as a entrepreneur deserve or what your labor is, all of those things. And I think I finally have settled into the right value, but it took a lot of time to realize what my markup should be, what my margin should be, that kind of thing. I mean, I probably will always continue to learn or make changes where I need to.

Shanna (15:54):

Yeah. Katie, how do you feel like the business grew? Was it just word of mouth? Was it mostly local? Did it start growing online?

Katie (16:05):

So I only operate online. I don't allow, I'm in my house. I don't allow clients to come here and see anything. I keep everything on my website. Only 2020 was an interesting year for obvious reasons, but I was starting on Instagram. I was getting an audience there just slowly but surely trying to be consistent. So word of mouth through that, people sharing my profile, friends of friends, just sharing about my business was incredibly helpful. In the beginning, I was also utilizing fabrics that happened to be on trend at the time, which was helpful. Not many other shop carried these fabrics, so I just sort of timed it just right that having those particular fabrics in my shop, that alone was drawing people to me through search engine optimization, Etsy listings, that kind of thing. People were searching for these fabrics and finding me. And so that was a huge help at the beginning.

(16:58):

I have transitioned. I've tried to transition my pieces to more, not necessarily less trendy, but just more timeless like things that you really can't find anywhere else that are a little bit more unique, that offer just a different kind of design, different classic style. And so that's sort of been a risk because I don't know if that turns off my client base. I don't think it does. I'm still in business. But making those transitions and finding things that make me happy to produce that give me joy too. It's finding that right balance that again, keeping my clients in tune with what I'm doing, making sure they love what I'm offering, but also enjoying what I'm offering. Does that make sense?

Shanna (17:39):

But it's still all custom mostly to the trade?

Katie (17:44):

Yes. So I have all of my material, or most of my is to the trade only, but I offer my product to retail clients so anybody can purchase from me. But I do have an interior designer program to the trade so that designers who are sourcing pillows for their spaces, they can use me and shop at a discount and use my pillows in their spaces, which I think is a big benefit. Part of the problem in my industry, the material that I use, most of the vendors have a minimum yardage requirement when ordering. So let's say two yards. Well, if you just want one pillow, two yards is a lot of material to buy for just one pillow. It can get expensive. You can see how that can get pricey when material is already expensive. So the way I operate is I am ordering larger quantities of these fabrics and I stock them.

(18:35):

I keep them in stock, which also saves on shipping costs, buying in bulk. And then if you just want one pillow, I have my pricing so that I know I'm keeping this yardage in stock. I'm not going to use two yards for you. I'm only using this amount of square inches or whatever, and I can price it a little better, which is beneficial to retail clients because you're not having to order through an interior designer when they're having to get a two yard minimum. I can get around that. So I'm able to keep prices at a better rate than if you were to go through an interior designer. But it also helps interior designers because if they do just want one pillow for their client or even two pillows, it saves them or their clients a lot of cost because I can provide those margins for them.

Shanna (19:19):

That's so helpful. What do you feel like as you've grown, just especially those first few years, and then I want to talk about later on if you saw any big changes, but those first few years, what do you feel like did go really well and then what were maybe some things that didn't go well?

Katie (19:36):

Yeah, like I said, the first year I was selling a majority of one person's fabric. So it happened to be a trend, and I stocked her patterns and they were all doing really well. But I realized that first year that all of my eggs were in that basket. And it made me nervous that when you're on a trend, what happens when that trend dies? So if her fabrics were no longer popular, what would happen to my shop? Would I still make sales? That kind of thing. So I realized after that first year that I really needed to make some adjustments and start looking at other fabrics and start showing my clients what else was out there, what other options they had. And I think that was a big risk because you never know what people want. And in the custom world, what works for one space is not necessarily going to work for another. So there are some fabrics that I have that I've learned. I've got fabric in my closet that I ordered even two or three years ago that never sold. And so carrying inventory is always an issue. I'm still learning how to manage that. But then I'll have some fabrics that will have sold since I opened. They've been a big hit since 20.

(20:48):

So I mean, I guess to answer your question, that first year, just learning what works for clients and figuring out that I don't need to put so much weight onto one fabric or one designer. I really need to diversify what I offer. But knowing that that's a risk too, because once you start branching out into other things, what if the client doesn't like it? Or what if you're buying fabrics that won't sell? Does that make sense?

Shanna (21:12):

Oh, absolutely. And I think carrying that inventory is you're buying, not that you don't have knowledge or you can know your customer, but it's always somewhat of a risk probably.

Katie (21:25):

Yes. Well, I think most of my clients now, or what I'm trying to do is my approach to Instagram or my approach to just my website in general is just to show clients that there's more out there than just what you see. Even on Instagram, there's more to the trend. A lot of people follow year by year. This fabric happens to be popular right now, or this is the style. But what I'm trying to show clients is that, I mean, these are expensive. My pillows are not cheap, and so they need to be, I could consider them more of an investment piece. So you want to be sure that when you buy from me, you're buying something that you'll love for years. And so I try to offer fabrics that are timeless. You're not going to buy a pillow for me, and it lasts only six months.

(22:08):

I mean, this will last you for years, the quality wise. And then the pattern and colors, they'll transition in seasons, they'll transition in stages of life. All of those things that I'm trying to, I think it's working. I mean, I'm trying to educate my clients on just what other options are out there. And again, what you buy from me, you can't really find off the shelf or you can't at all find off the shelf. You're not going to find it ready to ship. Certainly not in this kind of quality. So I think that's been a learning curve is again, just finding out. Okay, I may like a pattern too. I mean, there may be something that I really like and I'm drawn to, but maybe nobody else does. And there are things that other people like that I'm not drawn to. I'm like, why would they want that color? But I mean learning, I'm not here to serve myself either. I've got to figure out what clients are enjoying, what colors are staying on trend, but keeping a timeless style.

Shanna (22:58):

Yeah. Katie, can we talk through just kind of what you said, these are investment pieces. How do you find the clientele? Do you have a set group of designers? Are you marketing to designers? Because I mean, I don't know if you feel comfortable sharing, but when you can get pillows at various ranges of pricing to see pillows at the price point where you're selling, how are you doing this?

Katie (23:34):

I joke about my pillows. They are very expensive. But you can look at other pillow shops, and I'm still less expensive than others. Like I said, I try to provide a happy medium where I can stock larger quantities and lower my prices a little bit. But yeah, you certainly aren't going to go to Target or Home Goods or even some of these smaller marketplaces. I mean, my pillars are more expensive than those places, I guess is what I'm trying to say. That's obvious. But I think my goal is just to let clients know you pay for what you get. So you go buy a pillow at Target, you go buy a pillow at home goods, even like I said, some of these marketplaces, and that pillow is only going to last you six months, whether it's the fabric or the way it's made, it's going to fall apart.

(24:20):

The zipper isn't good quality, so quality opening and closing it, the zipper's going to tear apart in just a few months, and you're going to have to buy a new pillow. So all the money you spend to replace that one pillow when you could have just spent the money on the front end and had a quality piece that'll last you for years. And I think I try to explain that in my post a lot. I share a lot of behind the scenes how I'm making them, so clients see all the steps that go into it. I think when you look at a pillow on the shelf, you think, oh, that's just an easy square. I mean, there's no rhyme or reason, but when you look at the patterns that I stack, I try to show everything is centered appropriately. There are certain designs that need to match at the seam. So when you have a two-sided pillow, you want the pattern to be centered the same way. You want the seams to seem seamless, all of those things. I think showcasing that and educating my clients that these are the things you need to look for. Even if you don't buy from me when you're looking at another pillow, you need to pay attention because these things, if they don't have this quality, you're going to be replacing it quickly.

Shanna (25:27):

Yeah, I think that's, so Katie, I love that you brought that up. When you sell more of a luxury price point where you're good, you have so much of it is about educating your client, and I think it can feel intimidating. I don't know if you've ever felt intimidated just

(25:46):

With the price ranges that are out there. And I often get to talk about these money and pricing a lot with my students and clients, and I always say pricing is first and foremost about cost, and then a markup, there's an actual price, and then it's about perceived value to your customer. And so perceived value is about the education. I know just from my grandmother, just the idea of matching up seams or patterns to look at something and realize like, oh, the front and the back, the pattern continues, and most pillows, they're not going to match. It's not going to be that way. And so once you know that, and once you have been taught that you look for that, and I just don't think most people know. So I feel like probably a lot of what you do is educating.

Katie (26:39):

And like I said, I know that most of the people who follow me on Instagram, I know not every client, my or every person is my client. I should say it that way. I know I'm in a limited market, but even just teaching people, I mean, I didn't know these things even a few years ago. I would've thought it's crazy to spend more than $20 a yard on fabric. Why would you ever spend more than that? And now I realize, I mean even just sewing on these fabrics, working with them, the way they're printed, all of the things like the quality, the workmanship that goes into these, I now realize what a difference it makes. And yes, it's more expensive. And again, not everybody can purchase them, but they are quality and there's a reason they're expensive. And I think that's another thing too, educating my clients is that a 200 $400 pillow doesn't mean I'm making $200 or $400. I mean, my material cost is outrageous. So of course they're more expensive because of that, but it's not just because, I mean, there's a reason they're more expensive. It's not because I'm marking them up just for the heck of it.

Shanna (27:45):

Right. And I think the time going into each one, all of that's a factor. The inventory that you're carrying, so many things. Okay. So have you ever felt nervous or have you felt like you've found the right clientele and the right audience to really allow you to sell the quantity you need to make the income you need to make? How have you found that sweet spot of knowing that? I just think this is so great because it is a luxury good, but you have to sell, like you said, you're not making 200 or $400 on every pillow. You have to sell quantity still. So how have you maybe used your marketing degree or found success in finding enough people to buy this luxury product? Yeah,

Katie (28:39):

I think I'm still learning this to some extent. I've tried to place myself with the right people, reaching out to the right people on Instagram, connecting with building relationships with my vendors, which is always helpful because if you have good relationships with people, they're going to send their clients your way too. So always serving your customer first, whatever that means. I mean, I have people who bought for me, they've waited years either saving money or waiting on the right piece. They've waited years, but they know that I'm going to make it right. And even those people who may only buy once or buy the least expensive item, I want to serve them just as well as the person who's going to buy 10, 20, 30 pillows. For me, everybody who comes to me is equal, and I try to relate to them equally because I know that word of mouth is much more important than a post on Instagram.

(29:29):

I mean, you want people to refer to you all the time. So I would say building those relationships has been probably the most rewarding thing, just for me personally, but then also for my business, because people, again, when you serve them well, they're going to send their friends to you or their clients to you. I'm grateful to work with several interior designers. I work with a handful. Some are local and then some are out of Mississippi that I allow them to send me customer work. I don't allow this for everybody in such a small space, so I work for them. I guess personally, you could say they're ordering the fabrics, they're designing the pillows, and then they're sending me the material and I'm making it for their clients. My list for these designers or my list is so limited, again, because of my space, space, but this also allows me to reach more people because their clients know who I am now.

(30:24):

And so their clients receive a good product and they're telling their friends. That's how I've learned that in a luxury world, you really have to have that word of mouth. My clients aren't always on Instagram. They're not always searching for pillows. You're not buying a pillow every day. I've got to meet those clients at the right time. So I'm consistent in that. I'm posting frequently. I'm sending out newsletters, but I understand, I mean, a lot of that is going to fall on deaf ears because many of those people aren't going to buy from me, or certainly not at that time. That makes sense too.

Shanna (30:55):

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Looking back, have you Katie seen any big turning points or shifts in your business?

Katie (31:04):

That's an interesting question too. Like I said, that first year, just learning that I need to offer more, not just such a limited collection, has been a big shift for me and realizing always putting new product out. I think I wanted to point this out. In one of your recent podcasts, y'all mentioned the phrase, if you're not growing, you're dying. I think that was your most recent, and that's always stuck in the back of my head. You always have to be growing. You always have to be doing more, growing your business. And I've thought about that since the first year. What does that mean? I have learned that it's not necessarily growing profitability wise, but it's growing your product offering, reaching new people, just growing in what you offer. And so I learned that after the first year that I always have to diversify. I always have to keep new product out there, keep fresh, don't hold. If something's not working, get rid of it, move on, keep going, keep changing. I think that's been helpful. A good mindset for me is that you always have to keep, I guess keep up with the times is a way to say it.

Shanna (32:10):

Growing, innovating.

Katie (32:11):

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Shanna (32:13):

Has there ever been a point, this is totally off script, dunno why I'm asking. I'm interested, has there ever been a point where you're wanting to scrap it all and just do a totally different business model or something else?

Katie (32:26):

Maybe not necessarily business model, but there are hard days when you look at businesses on Instagram or social media, you think, oh, it must be perfect over there. They never post a complaint. You never see anything bad. But there are hard days here. There's a lot of things that happen. I probably am in my sewing room twice a week, three days a week if it's a big order week. But the other three days I'm in my office, I'm creating content, I'm dealing with shipping. And the shipping issues have been a lot. Those are some of the times where I just want to throw in the towel. This isn't worth it. Either a lost package or something's damaged, whatever it is. I feel like I'm always learning the shipping. And there are always issues that arise outside of just what you see on Instagram.

Shanna (33:13):

Oh, absolutely. We were kind of talking before we even hit record just about, as business owners, we are required to be good at so many things that are other than just our natural gifting. I mean, we've got to be good at marketing and pricing and bookkeeping and our actual craft and communication. And I mean hiring,

Katie (33:34):

It's a burden. It's a whole thing. It's a heavy burden. Yeah, and I think it's important. I'm learning this too. My first year, so when I was deciding whether to quit 2019, I was doing this on the side and I actually was out fishing with my dad that summer, and I told him, I was like, I think I want to quit. I mean, I quit nursing. And he said, oh, so business is doing that great. And I was like, well, no. Actually, at the time I think I was in $2,000 in debt. I may have had $12,000 in sales or something for that year. And he kind of laughed, was like, I mean at the time I thought he was probably shaking in his boots. He's an accountant. He does liquidations, and I'm sure he was calculating how long it would take for him to liquidate after I started what he was going to have to do to liquidate my assets.

(34:23):

But that first year, like I said, I pushed myself hard. I tried to stay on task, I set routines, set schedules, and I ended up with sales almost a hundred thousand dollars that first year. And I thought, that's crazy. And since then, I've certainly grown every year, but I think this year has been a turning point for me and that I've realized I kind of have plateaued at what I can do Myself, tried to run all of the things, and I've realized three years in, I've been pretty stable in my sales and I'm just realizing if I want to grow, I'm going to have to give away some tasks. I'm going to have to hire help. I'm going to have to put some things off on other people. And it's learning to give that up. I mean, it's a hard thing to not be in control anymore. And I'm bad at being a control freak. I like to at least have my hand in it to know how things are going, that it's managed well, that the customer's happy, all these things. So given that task to somebody else, makes me a bit nervous. But like I said, it's necessary. Necessary to grow, to expand, to reach new people.

Shanna (35:28):

Yeah, it's so interesting. I have always been so timid about hiring. I made my first hire, let's see, 2016 or 2017, so I was just two to three years into business full time. And it's funny when you're saying that, I look back and I'm like, gosh, I've learned so much. I've had a lot. I've had full-time employees, I've had a lot of contractors. I've learned so much. And I used to be so intimidated by it, and I am also a control freak. And now it's funny, this is our 11th year in business, and I'm like, wow, you know what? That's awesome. I'm actually kind of probably on the other spectrum. You're not the expert with my team. I'm like, go for it. You're doing great. And I don't know if that's just with life change or with time. And the last person I talked to on the podcast talked a lot about starting small and just one step at a time. It can feel so daunting when you look at the big picture, but if you're just do the next step, it's like, okay, I would love that. Yeah. So I'm interested. Hiring has been such a gift. I mean, now I don't know what I would do without my team, but I remember the days of just being so nervous and I think for me, just permission to get it wrong was really helpful and to

Katie (36:52):

Learn. Well, I think that's a good point too. All of the little things, I've learned so much in the last four years, and I didn't foresee where I would be now when I first started, but each little mishap, each little failure, you figured it out, you figured it out, and then the next time you knew better, instead of, I guess, wallowing in this issue, you just keep pressing on. It works out, you learn, you fix it the next time, and you should be good to go. I mean, something else will happen and you'll learn from it. And so it's the same. I've got to find that same mentality about employees too, learning how to do W twos, learning how to price things and do all the things. You can't learn them until you try them. Yes,

Shanna (37:35):

Unfortunately,

Katie (37:36):

Giving yourself some grace in that. I've got to give myself some grace. Yeah.

Shanna (37:40):

Okay. I'm interested talking. Let's talk about numbers for a second. Coming from a family that loves numbers and being told yourself that you were good with numbers and accounting and how have you seen that play out in your business? What would you say money-wise has come easily or naturally? Are there times where you rely on your family to bounce? Who coming from a family of accountants that you are able to bounce questions off of them? Or what would you say are those, what's gone well and then biggest struggles when it comes to making money?

Katie (38:17):

Yeah. I've always been good at profit loss. I understand you've got income, you've got expenses. You can't spend more than what you bring in. I get that that's always come easy to me, watching how I spend. But I'm never good at keeping cash. I could spend as much as I bring in if I wanted to. I've never thought about it as, I need to have so much cash on hand. I need to diversify things this way. That's never come easy to me. And so that's been helpful. It's been a learning curve in the business too, knowing, okay, next month I'm going to have to buy a lot of inventory, so I need to make sure my expenses are low this month. I'm going to need cash for that. Just forecasting in that regard. I've learned a lot just realizing or trying to plan ahead, realizing where my money's going, what months I'm going to be more spending more, this kind of thing.

(39:09):

I was never good at that before, but just out of the fact that I've had to be, I have learned how to forecast a little bit. Now, granted, I'm never good at forecasting enough to know at the end of September, I'm going to have maybe this month cash or we'll have spent this much, but on a day-to-day, month to month basis, I get it. The thing about my family of accountants, my dad, I mentioned hem, he's an accountant, and my sister, she married an accountant. So I've got three that are really close. But the thing about them that I love and hate the most is that they make me learn. I would love to pass this off or say, okay, you handle my QuickBooks, you take this. But they don't do that. They've made me learn, they've answered my questions, but they make sure that I know what I'm doing so that I don't give it to somebody who will mess it up later. Do you understand what I'm trying to say? So it's beneficial to have them, but I also wish that somebody would just do this for me. I feel like there are some days that I don't want to look at my numbers. I don't want to deal with my QuickBooks. I don't want to learn. But at the same time, I'm grateful that they do teach me and that they do help me to see, okay, you've got to pay attention to this. You need to start thinking about your cash or need taxes, that kind of thing. That's been a big, big help.

Shanna (40:26):

It's so funny, I have so many students who are like, thank you, Shanna, for educating me, but also I kind of miss being blissfully unaware. Yeah,

Katie (40:34):

Ignorance.

Shanna (40:35):

Yeah. But it's so true. It's like anything in your business, you can't hire to something until you at least have a working knowledge of it, because then it's like, I don't know even if this person's doing a good job or not, because I just don't know enough. I don't

Katie (40:50):

Know.

Shanna (40:51):

That's how I feel about SEO, which is a whole different conversation. Oh,

Katie (40:56):

Oh my gosh, I don't

Shanna (40:56):

Want to learn it. Okay. Tell me, Katie, what you would say is the best thing you have learned about money?

Katie (41:02):

Let's see. I think I've learned, we all value it differently. I've learned not all of us feel the same way about it. Not all of us spend our money the same way. And it's hard to scroll Instagram sometimes and see like, oh, those people have something. Don't why I can't. I have that, or Why don't I have that and I can get judgmental about it and this, that, and the other. But then again, I realized, okay, well, they probably look at me and feel the same way, especially talking about an expensive product. Here I am selling expensive pillows. They probably feel the same way about me. We just value things differently. So money is, I don't know, I just feel like you work with what you have. Don't worry about what other people think of you or what somebody else has. They may make their life seem like their money is endless, but I guarantee you it's not.

(41:49):

And so just learning to focus on my own income, focus on my own expenditures, and just not fret. Just don't fret about it. I listened to a podcast recently that she was talking about her business and how she used to worry about money sometimes, and is she getting enough? Is she earning enough? But she realized, God put this job, this business on her plate, he's gifted it with her. He's going to take care of her. And I have to remember that too. I don't need to worry about it, do the best I can, be consistent, take care of my people, and it's all going to work out. But also that, again, I don't need to worry about whether how other people are spending their money or what they're doing. Just focus on me, focus on what I can do, spend my money the best way I can, be a good steward of it and go from there.

Shanna (42:36):

It's so hard not to compare. And I think, oh,

Katie (42:39):

Gosh.

Shanna (42:41):

And I think coming from, I'm so thankful that I get to work with entrepreneurs and especially just the type of entrepreneurs I get to work with. But I still think even though we would say our value is not in just making the most money for most of us, making the most money we possibly can as a business owner, I feel like, I don't know, Katie, if you feel this way, it's like business success is determined externally based on how big you are, how much money you make, how much you bring in. And I think though most of us would say, that's not what we value. Somehow we still feel the pressure of that.

Katie (43:25):

Yes.

Shanna (43:26):

And I was wondering before we went into our, I wanted to ask you one more question before we go into a quick fire, but I was wondering, Katie, I don't know if you would mind speaking to this, but coming from a family of more, I'm going to say more maybe traditional type jobs, not maybe they own their own accounting firm, but the entrepreneurial creative spirit. Do you ever find that you feel like you have to talk truth to yourself? This is legit. This is a business

Katie (43:57):

All the time. So I am the third child from the baby, and I joke that I'm always the one that just kind of flies by the seat of her pants. I've always been just not the wild child, but I just have never felt like I have this path that I have to stick to and I have to do A, B, C, D in this order to get to where I want to go. My brother's an engineer, and you knew when he was born, he was born to be an engineer. My sister, an accountant, same thing. She's so driven and she's so good at what she does, accounting. That is her role a hundred percent. Then I came along and I'm like, well, I kind of like everything I could do a little bit of everything. I could dabble in this, could dabble in that. And so I've always just been, it'll work out.

(44:39):

You know what I mean? I'll just do whatever. And so sometimes I do feel like my family is so supportive of me a hundred percent, but sometimes I do feel like they think, oh, this is just a season. I think now everybody realizes this is not just a season. I think after that first year, everybody now realizes like, oh, she means this. But I do. I think being an entrepreneur, my dad, he's always been so encouraging to all of us, and he is always just told us, have options. He's never been, you have to do this. You need to get your master's degree, you need to work here, you need to do that. It's never been that way. He's just always told us to have options, and I've taken that advice. So well keep your doors open. Don't shut any doors. You never know what tomorrow will lead to where you'll go from here. And I appreciate that so much about my family, but it is funny when you look at us, I'm definitely the wild card, but I do think now that I've been doing this for a few years, I think everybody realizes okay, she's serious. This is real.

Shanna (45:43):

Yeah, Katie, I love it. Okay. I'm going to ask one question quickly and then we'll go into quickfire just because I always want to make sure we talk about just this idea of harmony in a world that ask us to do everything really well. And as we talked about even in the business doing everything really well, from marketing to accounting to your actual craft, how have you found balance? And the word I really love is harmony in your work life, in your home life, I'm sure it's been a journey. It's so easy to kind of eat, sleep, breathe our business, but are there some ways that you have implemented into your own life to maintain that harmony of work and life?

Katie (46:27):

I think in a lot of ways, and we sort of touched on this a minute ago about the world tells you you need to have this much money or you always need to be growing and having some growth of profitability every year, and I struggle with that a lot. I don't necessarily want to be a seven figure business. I don't want to work myself to death that I've accumulated this business and I have no life to show for it. So I think balance is always being flexible with your schedule. I'm not necessarily a routine person. I like to get tasks done. I can focus on the day to day, but I don't ever sit down and say, okay, eight o'clock, I'm going to do this at 10, I'm going to do that at five. I have to do this, I have to be here, there, wherever.

(47:12):

So for me to find balance, I know what I have to get done every day, but if something interrupts my day at 10:00 AM I don't fret over it. I know I can stay up a little later, shift my schedule around and just deal with it. And so I try to remember why I got in this business. Again, it's not to make seven figures or to have this hundred employees and manage this large company. It's kind of to enjoy life and have a lifestyle that I can do the things that I love and still make money doing it. And so just having that flexibility to know that I don't need to be worried If something doesn't get done today, it's okay. It'll happen tomorrow. I know some of that is I don't have children. I'm not married, so I don't have somebody depending on me every day. I'm sure if I had little mouths to feed, I might feel a little differently, but I just try not to get stressed over it knowing that I need to get out of the business. You've got to be able to step away, step away from your computer, do some things that you love, be with people you love, and know that the work will get done later.

Shanna (48:17):

Yeah. Yeah. That's so good. Katie, let's do some quick fire.

Katie (48:21):

Yeah.

Shanna (48:22):

Okay. First, what is one thing you would be embarrassed if people knew?

Katie (48:28):

I could probably say a lot of things. I'm a clean person. I really do like to clean. I keep my house pretty clean, but there's something about cleaning countertops that I hate. And a lot of people are like, I don't like to vacuum. I don't like to clean toilets. I don't know, I hate wiping countertops, so unless somebody's coming over to my house, there's probably crumbs or all over my, I don't know. There's something about wiping it down that I hate

Shanna (48:53):

That is so funny. That made me think of, it's so

Katie (48:55):

Random

Shanna (48:56):

Friends. I don't know if you grew up watching friends that the Monica Closets, she's such a clean freak, but then she's like, got this closet. That's her thing.

Katie (49:04):

Don't look in my closet.

Shanna (49:05):

That's the countertops. Yeah.

Katie (49:07):

I hate cleaning. I will never wipe them down unless somebody comes over. I just don't wipe them down. I hate it for some reason.

Shanna (49:12):

That's so funny.

Katie (49:13):

But otherwise, I promise mouth cleaned.

Shanna (49:17):

Okay. Any regrets or wish you could do over moments?

Katie (49:22):

I really don't have a lot of regrets. I think they're all learning moments, and I know that's kind of an easy thing to say. I will say I think I learned from all, I would do things differently if they ever came up again in the future. There was one specific moment when I first started, it was like January of 2020. I was selling only on Etsy at the time. Now I have my own website. I still sell on Etsy a little bit, but most of my income or most of my push is from my website. But at the time, there was another shop that opened up similarly to mine, and she stole a picture from my shop and used it in her listing. And I messaged Etsy and I messaged the seller and I was like, look, that's my picture. You got to take it down.

(50:07):

And it put me on guard. She did take it down. Thankfully, she never responded to me, but she did remove it and it put my guard up thinking, there are all these people out to copy me. I need to be careful about what I do. Well, a few weeks later, there was another workroom similar to my mind, and she had a product that was similar to mine, and I was so caught up in the moment, and I ended up emailing her. And I hugely regret that because now I realize she was not copying me, but I was so defensive about my own product. There are other places, other workrooms that use the same fabrics that I do. They make the same product, and I need not be so worried about some of those things. I guess my point is I overreacted a little bit and got defensive about myself, and now I realize it's a community of people. We're all in this together. Of course, if somebody's stealing your picture, that's one thing, but having a similar product, I don't need to worry about it. I serve my clients. I do the best that I can do, and other people are going to try to do the same things, but I feel like I overreacted in that moment, and I wouldn't do that again.

Shanna (51:13):

That is such a hard thing to go through and to learn. And I think unfortunately, so many of us do, and I think what you said, for me, when I've had an experience similar to that in the past, it was just fear. It's like, you love what you do so much. And I think that through that experience, it taught me no one really is you. Nobody can be you. And that was really powerful. Looking back, I would not ever want that to happen again, but I am grateful for what I had to learn through it. But I totally understand how hard the first time that happens

Katie (51:55):

Is. And I think fear is a good word. You do get, you've taken this big risk and you don't want somebody to take it away from you. But now I have some of the best relationships with other workrooms who are doing similar things, and we're offering similar products and we're able to share ideas with each other, and I realize how valuable that is now to have that community and to be able to ask others for help. Like, Hey, how did you do this? And they ask me for help and it's, it's a good community. But yeah, that fear the first year of realizing nobody's going to serve your clients the way you do, you don't need to worry so much about those kinds of instances. Again, if somebody's stealing your actual picture, that's one thing, but there are going to be other people offering a similar product or doing things similar to you and just show up for your clients, keep doing the things that you're good at, and it'll all work out.

Shanna (52:45):

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's so good. Know when you need to take action, and then otherwise, just trust that competition. I don't know. It can get such a bad rap.

Katie (52:56):

Yes,

Shanna (52:57):

Katie, thank you for sharing that. Okay. Tell me about a big win or a pinch me moment.

Katie (53:03):

So over the last few years, I've had a few, I guess, Instagram influencers that have purchased from me and shared me on their Instagram. And I always feel like that's such a big deal when somebody buys something from you and they have a large following. You get excited about it. You've just made something big. And I think that's such a cool thing to see my pillows in somebody else's house. Even some of my clients who don't have a huge following, but they still share my pillows. I just get such a thrill out of that. Last year I started doing a, talking about hiring help. I do have a local marketing firm that helps with my social media ads, so they manage my target audience and this, that and the other. And we set up last year just sort of a way to keep me accountable and to keep me consistent on social media.

(53:49):

I do about one reel a week, I create a reel, and this firm helps me boost it to the right people. So I've had a couple of them since doing that, that have gotten over 200,000 views, and something about that makes me feel good. You know how long it takes to put together a video. I mean, it could take hours, and when nobody sees it, it's really defeating, but when something goes well, it's like, oh, that's fantastic. And I got a lot of followers from it. It just made me feel like, okay, that was worth my time. It's just one of those feel good, like, oh, it finally worked.

Shanna (54:27):

Yeah. We've been working really hard on SEO in our business at my business for, I don't know, eight or nine years, and my husband Kyle came on in 2021 full time to handle all that, and SEO is one of his roles, and he's like, yeah, you have no SEO. I was like, fantastic. That's fine. Right. Anyway, so we just got an inquiry the other day from Google, and we always ask who you were referred by, and they said, Google. And it was so funny because one of the people on my team Fangirled Hard. Oh my goodness. You got an inquiry from, oh my goodness. And it was just a really cool moment of like, you write content or you tweak your website pages to optimize. We've been working so hard on whatever it is for us right now. It's SEO for you, it's your reels, and to see it pay off matters. Yeah, I love that. Yes. Okay.

Katie (55:21):

It is fulfilling

Shanna (55:22):

Best advice or just really good advice that you have received.

Katie (55:27):

I think just that, keep pressing on. I mentioned my dad always saying, keep your options open. I'm a hundred percent agree with that. Never keep your eggs in one basket. Always keep doors open. Keep building relationships, but keep pressing on. Don't fret over the little things. There will always be, we touched on this earlier, there will always be something that fails. There will always be something that goes wrong, but you just got to get past it. Move on. Just you're going to learn from it and move on. Don't fret over such little things. Yeah.

Shanna (55:57):

Yeah. I love that. Okay, last quick fire and then we'll send it off. What are you working on now or one resource that you would like to share?

Katie (56:07):

Well, my hope is, so I mentioned I'm in my little house. I work, I have a little three bedroom house and two of the bedrooms I've turned into my work dream in my office. So it's about 200 square feet of space. So last year I purchased some land that's not far from me, and I'm hoping that this year I finally get to build a bigger workroom, which would be fantastic. Talking about having plateaued, I really need to hire help, but I have no room in my house to bring in help. So I'm hoping in the next year, maybe two years, I'll finally be able to expand, to expand, to grow, to offer more. I'll have a bigger space and like I said, could bring in an employee or two to help me. So that would be ideal. So that's my big excitement for this year. I'm trying to just hold on to what I have, and like I said, hopefully we'll be able to move into a bigger space soon.

Shanna (56:57):

Yeah, I love it. Exciting things ahead.

Katie (57:00):

Yeah, I know. Very exciting. It's always something to look forward to. Yeah,

Shanna (57:04):

Building is fun. Okay, Katie, let's send it off with looking back now, what would you tell yourself on the day you walked in to, I don't either your supervisor, whoever you had to go in when you were a nurse and say, I'm done here, and taking your business full time. What would you tell yourself looking back now at that moment?

Katie (57:26):

Oh, man, I was so nervous that day, feeling like I'd let other people down, that I was leaving people behind. It was a hard chat to have. A lot of my friends still work where I used to. I stay in touch with them. But I think just realizing you've got to do things for yourself. Not necessarily worry about how you want to word this the right way, but I think you got to take care of yourself first. Do the things that make you happy and don't look back. Things will always work out. It's kind of going back to that. Just don't sweat the small stuff. Don't dwell on it. Keep moving forward, but realizing what opportunities are out there. You should never feel like you're stuck in a place or that you should be unhappy because this role, everybody's telling you you're great at it. You're fulfilled in this role. Maybe if you don't feel that way, look at other opportunities. Take the risk, do the thing. It will work out.

Shanna (58:25):

I love it. Katie, thank you so much for sharing your story. Thank you, Shannon. This has just been a blast to spend time with you.

Katie (58:32):

Yeah, no, thank you so much for letting me open up a little bit today.

Shanna (58:37):

Hey, wildflower, you just finished another episode of Consider the Wildflowers the podcast. Head over to consider the wildflowers podcast.com for show notes, resource links, and to learn how you can connect with Katie. One final thought for today from David Visco, if you have the courage to begin, you have the courage to succeed. As always, thank you for listening. I'll see you next time.