084. Kathryn Hager: Unexpected Outcomes of Saying Yes!

The story of Ramble and Co began in 2009, in Kathryn’s last semester of college, when her great-uncle offered her the chance to buy his screen printing business.

After working two jobs throughout college, Kathryn had maxed out her income and jumped at the opportunity to work for herself. From side-hustle to 7 figure business printing tshirts, a powerful reminder that saying yes to opportunities can lead to unexpected and beautiful outcomes.

WILDFLOWER SHOWNOTES : shannaskidmore.com/kathryn-hager

📌 RESOURCES MENTIONED:

Kathryn’s Podcast: The Ramble On Show
Silobration
Lindsay Letters
Storybrand by Donald Miller
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Transcript

Kathryn (00:00):

Was 30 degrees. It rain the whole time. Nobody was selling anything and we were all sad Together. Her company is Lindsay Letters and shortly after we were together at Christmas at the silos, we bonded our team and her team all bonded. It was a great experience. Her daughter was in a horrific accident and had a traumatic brain injury. Her team approached us if we would want to, knowing that we screen print if we would want to do a batch of shirts to help fundraise for the She Bondi family and everything they were going through. And it was an immediate absolutely like if I could help in any way, that is what we would do. We threw together a design and within days we had the listings up on the website to print. So everything went through ramble's website and our social media. So she posted about it, we were tagged in it and we grew like 10,000 followers in hours and then the order started coming in. So altogether we shipped over 6,000 shirts. I had to call in volunteers, like friends from our community to say, I need you to come and ship all day. We were shipping 12 hours a day. We had four guys screen printing for us, including my husband, and it was around the clock ordeal.

Shanna (01:20):

You're listening to Consider the Wildflowers the podcast episode 84, the story of Ramble and Co began in 2009 and Catherine's last semester of college when her great uncle offered her the chance to buy his screen printing business. After working two jobs throughout college, Catherine had maxed out her income and jumped at the opportunity to work for herself from side Hustle to a seven figure business. Printing T-shirts a powerful reminder that saying yes to opportunities can lead to unexpected and beautiful outcomes. If you dig professional bios, here goes. Catherine Hager is the owner and founder of Ramble and Co. A women run shop specializing in hand-printed graphic tees and sweatshirts whose goal is for you to feel confident and supported in the words you are wearing. Shop online or visit in person next time you find yourself in the heart of Texas. Waco. Okay, formal introduction's over, let's dive in.

(02:06):

Hey, it's Shanna and this is Consider the Wildflowers the podcast. For the past 15 plus years, I've had the honor to hear thousands of stories from entrepreneurs around the world. As a former Fortune 100 financial advisor turned business consultant, I have a unique opportunity to see the reel. Behind the highlight reel. I'm talking profit and loss statements, unpaid taxes, moments of burnout, and those of utter victory or as my husband says, the content everyone is wondering but not many are talking about. And now I'm bringing these private conversations to you. Hear the untold stories of how industry leaders, founders, and up and coming entrepreneurs got their start, the experiences that shaped them and the journey to building the brands they have today. Stories that will inspire and reignite encourage to redefine success and build a life and business on your own terms. Welcome Wildflower. I'm so glad you're here. Catherine, welcome to the show. So glad you're here.

Kathryn (02:56):

I am so glad I'm here today.

Shanna (02:59):

This is going to be fun. Okay. Do you podcast a lot? Have you been on a lot of podcasts? Have you done a lot of speaking or is this kind of not every day stuff?

Kathryn (03:11):

So we have a podcast, actually it's called the Raman Show and it's not, something did not noticed. I'm very, because we don't talk about it and we took a break all of 2023. So it actually started as me and my husband's podcast. We called it the Armadillo Den and it was hosted by him and and it was just really fun. We wanted to share stories about business and entrepreneurship and share some of our friends entrepreneurial stories and then

Shanna (03:44):

So similar.

Kathryn (03:45):

Yeah, I love it. Very local. Pretty much everyone that recorded on it with us what came to our studio or our house and recorded. So none of it was virtual. And then we did it for one year. We did one season and then I could tell my husband was really, really not into it. And so we took a break and then we kicked it back up. We just kind of rebranded it to Be Rambles Podcast. Podcast and it kind of fizzled out again. I had an employee, Alyssa and honor two employees at the time who really loved the idea of the podcast. So it didn't feel like I was doing it all by myself. I had people helping me and it was our conversations. And so that is when we rebranded it and had a season of it. We recorded, but then Seasons of Life Change and those team members moved on and then I just haven't kicked back in myself

Shanna (04:42):

To do it. I'm obsessed with the Ramble on Show that makes me so happy.

Kathryn (04:47):

And that's exactly what it is. It is a very conversational style podcast. We haven't recorded in over a year, so the episodes are pretty old but they're still relevant. I do speak a little on marketing, mostly in royal towns. I'm from a very small town outside of Wichita Falls wi some people would probably consider Wichita Falls, a small town in Texas, far north Texas. But I don't do those very often. It's more of just when I'm asked to be a guest I'll say yes to those opportunities, but it's nothing I seek out.

Shanna (05:20):

Yeah, I love it. Podcasting. I love that you brought this up though. It's a whole thing. It's a commitment and I think sometimes people don't know jumping in. There's a lot that goes into it to keep it going. We are almost, well by the time this comes out, we'll have passed our 75th episode and I'm just like, here we are. I mean, so I'm

Kathryn (05:46):

Proud of you.

Shanna (05:47):

Thank you, Catherine. Thank you, darling. I'm the most inconsistent person. No, you're not.

Kathryn (05:53):

I,

Shanna (05:55):

I chose my words the year two words, savor and sprint, and it made me so happy because it encompasses my, just who I've embraced myself to be is I will run really hard and then I want to rest for a week and watch the whole episodes of Gilmore Girls, all of them. And so I've just kind of embraced. So it's been really cool to challenge myself and this has a ton to do with my team to show up every week and do a podcast. So we take the summers off, but other than that, 75 plus,

Kathryn (06:28):

That's huge. And being consistent on something, I mean for us it was not generating monetary, it wasn't a monetary portion of our revenue and how we function day after day. And so unfortunately it just didn't have, I haven't been able to keep it up with the workload that I have. And so I think I always have a list in the Notes app on my phone of all these amazing people I want to interview and topics I want to cover based on conversations with customers in the store, honestly. And I just tell myself one day, it's not a now thing.

Shanna (07:09):

Yeah, I do just want you to tell everyone who you are, what company you have, and tell me when you started the company you have now.

Kathryn (07:20):

Yeah, so I am Catherine Hager. I am the owner, founder, creative director. Wear so many hats of Ramble and Company. I really do tell it's easier for me to describe myself to people as just an entrepreneur. I am very passionate, creative, I'm a big problem solver. I have a lot of friends come to me when they have an issue with a product or idea because I can see it, I would say a visionary. So I like to see things, see the big picture, ask questions, and then help people solve problems. And I take that part of what drives me and that is kind of where Ramble has come to be. So we small batch, hand screen, print, apparel, that's really how it started. So yeah, my median or my art is screen printing. People often say to me, I'll get this in the store a lot or on dms and social media, you're always changing and there are people who say that in a very positive way. And then there are people who kind of say it more as a negative. I would say people who are less risky see how much I change and pivot to be a negative where it's just really me trying to survive as a business owner.

Shanna (08:42):

Would you say the types of products you offer change, change?

Kathryn (08:47):

Well, the little products that I carry are always changing the accessories. Add-ons is kind of what we call them behind the scenes, the actual, from day one, my designs have changed. We come out with new designs throughout the year, but I've always screen printed. I went into, I've done tee towels, tote bags, sweatshirts right now because it's a little chilly they're in season. But mostly me adding a second location, which is jumping way forward. I opened our second location in Waco in 2022. The layout of our store is I think a lot what lot of what people reference. I change the design, the retail aesthetic of the store pretty regularly. I like to keep it fresh. And with new products and new seasons, I think they tell a different story and it helps me to tell that story if I can change the design of the store. So I think some people like things to look the same every time they come in and there are people who like that it's different.

Shanna (09:55):

Yeah, that's so interesting. Yeah, I guess that goes to show you can't please everyone, right? So you just got to

Kathryn (10:01):

Do what

Shanna (10:02):

Feels good for you

Kathryn (10:03):

Always. Yeah, I think that it only fuels me and for those that may confuse, I just try to provide clarity through conversation and try to ask more questions to grasp what they're truly trying to tell me. When

Shanna (10:20):

Did you start the company? Originally

Kathryn (10:22):

In 2009, so I started screen printing my last year of college. I was actually about to have to take out a student loan. I thankfully got through most of college with no student debt. I had grants. And then the last semester the grants were not going to cover all of my books and tuition, so I was going to have to take out a loan and I was taking it really hard. And then out of the blue, my great uncle came to me and asked if I would be willing to buy his screen printing business. And so a little backstory, I was raised on a produce farm very close to where I live now, and I grew up going to the farmer's market. I grew up around very entrepreneurial people and so it didn't seem scary or weird at all, which is crazy. I was like, sure. I bought all of his equipment, a whole bunch of handmade rigged equipment for $11,000. I took out a loan from our local bank and my parents supported me. And for me it was a means to just pay for my last year of college and have some cash flow that I was more in control of.

(11:32):

At the time I was working two jobs and just no matter how hard I worked, I was only able to make X amount of dollars. I was an hourly rate employee. And so I knew if I owned this business and I worked really hard, I would have the potential to make more cash than I would if I was working hourly for these other people. And so the end goal though was still for me to go work and get a big girl job after college. I knew at this point I didn't want it to be what I was full-time doing after college. So I did work in oil and gas for six years while working. And so through those years I had my first daughter. I would work 40 hours a week in oil and gas and I would come home to our garage and screen print custom orders. So that means I was not printing any of my own designs. I was only printing for other people. A lot of churches and schools were two in events were the main source of income for me.

Shanna (12:37):

So people would send you the design, ask you to screen print it, and you would just charge

Kathryn (12:42):

X amount per shirt?

Shanna (12:44):

Yeah.

Kathryn (12:44):

Yes. And so the design fee, at the time I was not a graphic designer and I was having to outsource all of my designs to a local designer, very $75 an hour. So I realized I was spending so much. It's really the client pays for the designs. Most people have ideas and they do not have their own the skill to make their own designs. So very much a part of our services was helping people take this idea into a design and then I would screen print it. So whenever, and

Shanna (13:17):

You still just thought it was a side hustle, you did it for fun. What kept you going? Debt. I did

Kathryn (13:22):

It. You pay, you

Shanna (13:22):

Had a full-time job

Kathryn (13:24):

To pay off debt? Yeah, I mean when my husband and I got married, we got married in 2010, so a year after I purchased the screen printing business for many reasons, there was debt that was a cured going into our marriage. And so we use this as a way to only, everything we made, we paid off debt with. It was no extra money I was making enough for us to pay our bills. So it was a way for us to pay off debt, pay off our vehicles, and then it just opened and then we were able to save a new home, like a different home that was bigger with our growing family. So really

Shanna (14:07):

Was it just local customers? Yes. Was it just word of mouth?

Kathryn (14:10):

All local? All word of mouth. I never honestly have never advertised the custom part of our business. I don't do it anymore. I closed that chapter in 2021, but I from 2009 to 2021 printed custom orders for other people and it was kind of self-running. It was a lot of work, hand printing, all these shirts, but it really was, yeah, it's all word of mouth, which is crazy.

Shanna (14:35):

So amazing. How did it grow and was there ever a time where you were like, we need to cut this back. I have a full-time job. I've got at least one baby, maybe more now. Was there ever a time you were like, this side hustle isn't serving us anymore? Clearly not because

Kathryn (14:51):

I do it now, kept doing it.

(14:53):

So I think through seasons and having kids, I was very in control of what orders I would take on. So over the years I really started just increasing my minimum and I stopped saying yes to everyone. If you had just three shirts you wanted for a girl strip, the answer would be no. It got to where my minimum was about $500, so you would have to buy a minimum of 50 custom T-shirts for me to even take on your order. And that helped me control what I was making and just making the best use of my time

Shanna (15:28):

Printing. Did you get help? When did you start hiring? Was this all done from your house? I'm so intrigued.

Kathryn (15:34):

Yes. So we actually worked out of a non climate controlled garage from 2009 to 2017, which is crazy.

Shanna (15:44):

No big deal in Texas,

Kathryn (15:45):

No big deal. There's a funny story that goes along with why we finally got it out of the garage. But no, it was mostly me and my husband. I was a primary printer and then of course he worked full-time and he would help me if I was desperate, I would really ask for his help. He would come in and help me print and we would do it together. And then I didn't hire a full-time screen printer until it was my husband actually in 2017. He left his full-time job and we were so low entrepreneuring fully doing ramble starting in 2017. And so he was my first employee.

Shanna (16:24):

Okay. When did you decide something has to give it's ramble or my other job?

Kathryn (16:33):

When I couldn't sit at a desk any longer, I just couldn't handle going to work juggling children. I had two girls when I left my full-time job, I really decided at the time also I was doing photography and graphic design, so I was doing all these part-time things. And then I realized I had done enough work to calculate how much I could make a year doing these other projects, felt really risky to leave my full-time job, very well paid salary position to do this. So I justified it by breaking out my skills into thirds and saying, I know guaranteed I can make this much a year on design based on my past clients. Same with photography and screen printing. So I just quit in 2015 when I didn't want to go into work anymore and I had started cutting my hours back at my full-time job. I was probably only working 28 to 32 hours a week, which thankfully I had a great boss who allowed that. But yeah, he was in full support of me starting my own business. And that's really when we started, the growth of my company drastically increased when I went full-time and I was fully able to give everything to this brand.

Shanna (17:56):

Did you want ramble to be the company or did you also pursue design? I mean clearly you do graphic design for your company for Ramble, but were you pursuing three businesses at once or was it really

Kathryn (18:09):

Yes, and that business was called, I rebranded in 2018 to ramble. The business that we started was Little H Creative. My last name's Hager and I had little kids, so a very creative business name, which is funny now, but so at that time it was also a little H creative because I was screenprinting. I had started screenprinting my own designs through all of this. Got it.

(18:39):

Yeah, so I went full time. I was doing all three. So graphic design was primarily web design and stationary for people's weddings. The photography, I would do fall mini sessions and spring mini sessions, but that was about it. But thankfully was able to have enough clients to make that worth being a portion of our business. And then the screen printing part was me printing for clients. And then I had started dabbling in my own designs and I had a booth at a store in Wichita Falls that I absolutely adored. And so I took a risk and I put a few little cute onesies in this booth and I started selling out of kid clothes. So I started selling kid clothes only. I had young kids, so it felt natural that that's what I would do. And our booth space there honestly grew so much and so fast that I realized I needed a storefront location to deliver where people could come pick up their custom orders because I was delivering for people like, oh, you would order.

(19:40):

And because I didn't have a storefront I was delivering, which I realized was taking so much time out of the week, and I am a big batch worker, I like to block schedule at that time with kids, being a wife and having this business, the only way I was able to function was blocking my week to where I only worked on specific tasks or just specific revenue avenues on certain days of the week. So I felt like I was in control of everything that was happening, but now that I explained it, it was chaos. I mean it was full on chaos. That lasted about three years. I got the business out of our home in 2016 and then, yeah, phased out photography and web design for anyone else in 2018. So it took me three years to really realize what was scalable and most profitable. And that was screen printing because I didn't have to do it all myself. I was the only designer and the only photographer. So I decided to phase out the things that was only me, if that makes sense.

Shanna (20:50):

And then you could get your husband to help with screenprinting, you could get people help with packaging or I guess at that time you weren't really shipping, but yeah. Okay. Well tell me how the business then morphed into what it is now. So from 2018 into where we are today, it's grown to a very different probably look than it started. Tell me about that.

Kathryn (21:17):

Yes, we had a few things that happened that made our company just grow really fast. And it started, I think the first thing was probably attending our first celebration, which is a Magnolia, Magnolia market in Waco. They have these vendor fairs twice a year spring at the silos. Well actually at that time it was four a year. So they did a summer market, a spring at the silos, a summer celebration, and then Christmas at the silos. And funny story, I had actually applied to be a vendor multiple times and got denied. I got the email that was like, unfortunately we're not extending the invitation,

Shanna (21:56):

Get the short email.

Kathryn (21:57):

And after two times I was like, I'm going to change the way that I'm filling out this application because they need me. I know my product matches their clientele. I think this would be great for our brand. And so I kind of took a different approach when I filled out the application for the third time and I got accepted. And from that moment, well

Shanna (22:17):

Wait, what'd you do? What you got to tell us? I

Kathryn (22:20):

Really just why they need us. Instead of saying, I want to come there, figure out how I phrased it, but it was more of needy and then I turned it into, you need me, not I need you. It's demographic. My demographic, what I'm selling matches those people who are traveling to Waco, Texas to come to an event. I shifted a few of our designs and it got us in, which is great. And I don't take it as luck. I mean I think it was a door that was opened for a reason.

(22:54):

And from that point forward, we've been every year since, I can't even count how many events we've gone, but I had started building these wonderful relationships with other business owners, with customers. Our brand was growing online because people who go to those events were traveling from all over the US to see Chip and jojo and it's funny, you won't see them when you're there, but to just experience what they built, it really is beautiful and I'm honored to be a part of it. So that is what really shifted what Ramble is today. The biggest thing that happened for us, and I'm not sure if you're familiar with this story, is there was a vendor, so a vendor neighbor is what we called them. She was in the tent right next to us at a Christmas at the silos. It was 30 degrees rained the whole time.

(23:46):

Nobody was selling anything and we were all sad together. And her company is, it's Lindsay, she Bondi and her company is Lindsay Letters. And shortly after we were together at Christmas at the silos, we bonded our team and her team all bonded. It was a great experience. Her daughter was in a horrific accident and had a traumatic brain injury. And so her team approached us if we would want to, knowing that we screen print if we would want to do a batch of shirts to help fundraise for the Shei family and everything they were going through. And it was an immediate, absolutely if I could help in any way, that is what we would do. So we threw together a design. Actually Lindsay designed a shirt very quickly and within days we had the listings up on the website to print. So everything went through ramble's website and our social media.

(24:47):

So she posted about it, we were tagged in it and we grew 10,000 followers in hours it was, and then the order started coming in. So altogether we shipped over 6,000 shirts for Ava and I had to call in volunteers, like friends from our community to say, I need you to come and ship all day. We were shipping 12 hours a day. We had four guys screen printing for us, including my husband, and it was around the clock ordeal. And so that is a huge part of what even some of our followers still are like, I found you in the Abel Love days. And that was in 2019 when that happened and it just kind of sit into 2020, which was a horrific year. But for us, I mean we almost hit seven figures in 2020 and that was crazy. I mean just so much growth and I think what people needed was the phrases that we were printing. And so it was just a message that needed to be received and maybe life was going too busy before. I don't think people stopped to think about how much they needed the joy and to love where they are. And I built great relationships through that that year.

Shanna (26:15):

I'm so glad you shared that story. I did not know that Catherine, what a powerful moment to show up for a friend and to see how you could use the work that you're doing in your business to support. I mean, what a beautiful picture of I think most of our hope with entrepreneurship and the impact we can have with our gifts and talents. I would love to hear at that point you mentioned you had four screen printers. So at that time, so 2019 going into 2020, was it mostly your designs or others' designs, still screen printing, you're working out of, I'm assuming maybe like a warehouse now. What did the company look like? What were your main revenue sources? 20 19, 20 20, and then your team? What did your team look like?

Kathryn (27:09):

It was so big. Then we actually purchased a building in 2017 to get out of our garage. I had told my husband, I will not screen print in the heat another minute. And so small town connections, someone approached us and let us know they were selling their building. It wasn't going to be a listing, it was for sale by owner. So we bought a 1920s historical building in 2017 and the front half of it was retail and the back half of it was screen printing. And I had one tiny closet that was shipping and that is where we actually shipped the Ava Love orders from that location. And so at that point, I mean Wichita Falls is trying so hard to revitalize. We actually have great support from the community that was supporting us on a retail level. So I was designing all of our products and selling them in a store while also having the custom screen printing portion. And I would say online outside of Ava, love was very small. It was probably 15 to 20% of our income. You

Shanna (28:24):

Had started your website, you had gotten the e-commerce site up, but it was still mostly local screen printing. And I would say Texas retail shops,

Kathryn (28:33):

We really weren't out of Texas quite yet. And this sent us into the us We had

Shanna (28:42):

Between Celebration and Lindsay. Yes.

Kathryn (28:47):

So I think at one point the highest number of employees that I've had is 11, and that was for sure 2019 and 2020 because we were shipping so much. I had started manufacturing. So I had found a company out of LA that I was able to design my own. And that was a huge leap for us to get into that industry before we were just printing or buying wholesale shirts, printing on them and selling them. So to be able to manufacture hundreds of shirts was a huge increase for us. So I mean now to be very transparent, we have four employees. I have four employees, two in Waco and two in Wichita Falls including myself. So I primarily screen print all of our own products. So from then until now, parts of our business shifted. Covid really hurt the retail part. I was selling online, but I mean I was still having to support these people that worked for us.

(29:56):

And so I lost a lot of money in labor over 2020 and 2021 and trying to figure out how the business was going to remain, how it is, but just not spend as much, I was spending too much in labor and I found out very hard ways. And thankfully my husband went to work somewhere else. It was a transition we both needed. And then I kind of slowly started taking over. I got back into printing, I started the business printing, I outsourced it to team members, and then I kind of realized I was missing, part of the creativity of the brand was me being back there with the squeegee, looking at the inks, and I had lost touch with parts of the brand that we were kind of founded on

(30:50):

And and then really online business after Covid kind of drastically went down, so many people were tired of being on their phones and connected to devices. They were actually ready to be out into the world again. And so it was a funny shift of how to say, oh, whoa, we grew all this online to really quickly realize that's not sustainable, to rely on online sales. So I shifted it back to retail and that's when I decided to open Waco and go to Waco, mostly because I had built community there. Through events, I joined a cohort to a mastermind with other Waco business owners, female business owners, and I had just built this community there that got me out of a place of just deep isolation. And so it felt like the most obvious place to open a store, especially with so much Austin and Dallas traffic people taking day trips to Waco. And I had heard that over and over and over at all these events I was attending. Yeah, and it's worked out. We're doing great. That's kind of where we are now. We're trying to survive with two retail stores and shipping online.

Shanna (32:04):

Catherine, this is such a good story. Thank you for sharing your journey from building it up to near seven figure business to readjusting in the last few years, figuring out the difference Covid made online business. Now back to retail, opening a second store, how have you found, I'm sure this is an ongoing process, but the right mix for you in the season of having little people at home working in the Texas Heat. How have you in these last goodness, how long has it been? Since 2009,

Kathryn (32:46):

15 years? Yeah,

Shanna (32:48):

15 years. Found the right business model for you, or do you just feel like it's always responding to your life and your audience? Your business has shifted and changed so much, so much. How have you kind of found this is the right fit for right now?

Kathryn (33:06):

Yeah, I have always, like I mentioned at the beginning, been a curious person. I'm not scared of trying new things and I think what has helped me pivot through the years is being okay with closing something and saying yes to my day-to-Day looking different. So yeah, it's ever changing. The hardest part is knowing, I kind of in my mind think of life in seasons or chapters and ramble has been such an important chapter in my life, but I do feel very transparently a shift coming where my kids, I have a daughter in junior high. This is so weird that I'm like, I have a sixth grader and I have a daughter in first grade and the needs of them as babies and toddlers is so different than the needs that they have for me now. And so I'm trying to figure out how to make this business mold into what it needs to be to serve my family in this new chapter, this coming.

(34:18):

And I even was telling a friend recently, it might be a new book, I don't know. Yeah, I try to be very self-aware. That would be the easiest answer is aware of how I'm feeling. There have been seasons where I hit rock bottom and usually that feeling is feeling very isolated as the sole owner of the company and team members changing. I've had the most amazing people work for us, and when new chapters start for them, I kind of feel like I always have to go back to point A and retrain someone. And as I've gotten older, I'll be 40 next year and I just said, our kids are getting older and I'm curious if what this is going to look like.

Shanna (35:07):

Yeah.

Kathryn (35:08):

Because trying to be very self aware of how I'm feeling and what I think is going to serve not only our customers better, but serve my family better and our team.

Shanna (35:20):

Yeah, I love that. I've had a lot of people share with me lately that the needs of, because in the season of toddler, another one on the way, and it feels like I've had a lot of people lately say, your kids never need you less. They just need you differently. Yeah. So that's so interesting. Thank you for sharing that, Catherine.

Kathryn (35:42):

Yeah, our kids are very involved in our company as well. I mean, my 12-year-old can run our POS system. She's come to celebration and checked people out. She is, and my other two are not near as interested, but my middle child is very artistic and so I will let her sketch a design and print a shirt. I want to see her creativity blossom. So it's served our family really well and it's shown them how hard work can pay off

Shanna (36:15):

And staying open handed to whatever may come, whatever may come. I am curious, Catherine, in all of this and just listening, this is your brain. I'm assuming maybe you went to business school or finance class. I mean, how have you figured out, I'm sure through bumps in the road over 15 years, growing a company to a million dollars, 11 team members to storefront locations. How have you figured out all the money side, not to mention the fact that you have product and inventory and cashflow and paying employee salary. What has come easily when it comes to managing money? What has just been like, if anything, train wreck moment had to learn that the hard way?

Kathryn (37:06):

Yes, there are many of those. So business does come very naturally to me. I did go to business school when I started college. I wanted to be a speech therapist, took my first anatomy and physiology class, and I was like, I'm out. This is not for me. And I actually really struggled in college until I got into my business courses and was like, whoa, this is a breeze. And I went from having, I actually flunked out of college at one point, but I went from having a 1.8 and I graduated I think with a 3.5, 3.6 GPA. And it was not until I got into my business core classes that I realized this is how my brain works. This comes very natural to me. And so I think business truly learning is trial and error. And so through the years, I'm always testing whether people realize I'm testing product, I'm testing ideas, I'm testing the market on what I think will work, what people want, what people need.

(38:12):

I've ran into, I didn't run into, but I stumbled upon Donald in 2019. And I do think that was a major shift in my mindset of I am here to solve a problem. I'm not the hero of my brand, my customer is hero. And it shifted on how I present our products and how I kind of set up our store and how I want people to feel when they walk in our store. I want them to feel like a hero and we're just a guide that is leading them there. And so yeah, I would say business comes naturally, lots of trial and error. And the hardest part that I've had to walk through is knowing which opportunities are good investment and which opportunities were very, very bad investments. And that is an ongoing journey. I think this year we kind of finally, I don't know if I'll stick to this, but we really don't know if manufacturing is the best choice for a small business like ours.

(39:18):

We have grown, but we still operate very much like a small business. And when you manufacture, if anyone else is in the apparel industry, they know you have large minimums. Do you have to order so much at one time? And if your fit of that shirt is off by inches, a woman is not going to be happy. And so I have learned, I would say that's the hardest part is knowing which yeses or which directions to go to grow. And right now we've really, our goal for 2024 is not growth. It is just to maintain what we have and serve the customers that we have really, really well. So if new people walk into our store, that's great, but I really just want to serve, our reoccurring customer rate is insanely high, and I've always prodded ourselves on that is serving the customers that we do have really, really well. And so that's kind of our model this year is to just serve people well and they will spread the word versus constantly seeking new and better. And that is mental. I mean, I think business owners can get really stuck in constantly trying to reinvent the wheel and we're just trying to perfect it to a T.

(40:39):

Yeah,

Shanna (40:39):

Yeah. Oh, I love that. One of my mottos, or I don't know, phrases, goals for the year, I did not come up with this. I'm not taking credit for it, less but better. And just the idea of going deep instead of wide, and you're doing that with your customers, loving on your people really, really well. I always like to ask, what would you say is the best thing you've learned about money?

Kathryn (41:08):

That is a hard question. I think my personality type, I'm not stuck to money. I know there are people who hold it, don't ever want to let it go. I am more of a free spender, so I try not to hold onto it. It's mine because big picture, I'm like, money is not everything. So it's easy for me to spend has been very easy for me to spend money and invest in myself or invest in others. But I'm learning now that money is a good resource to have and to hold onto and not always spend at the first next idea. And that was some I mentioned earlier, my mistakes in employees was me feeling like I had to have these employees to grow to blank without having a good grasp on what that growth was going to be. I never wanted anyone to struggle outside of myself too hard. And so I just always kind overstaffed to make everyone comfortable. This is crazy how it sounds now, but I thought that was the best way to operate. And so now me and my husband very much are kind of not spending near as much as we have. I'm not really wanting to invest a ton into the brand, but just do what we know works well.

Shanna (42:36):

Yeah, I love that. I was just talking with somebody earlier and I was like, I feel like there's this business cultural idea of growth is good and growth is good. That's so true. But you have to keep growing. And so we invest in building our team, buying more product, the ability to sell more. And I think sometimes it's not even conscious, right? Yeah, it's not better. I love how you said that.

Kathryn (43:08):

Yeah. I think society on some level, for

Shanna (43:10):

Some

Kathryn (43:10):

People be this is what is being told. I listened to your podcast with Olivia and it was so beautiful how she talked about how you both talked about not she was content where she is and she doesn't feel like right now she had to grow a team and it resonated. I was like, oh, that's beautiful. I

Shanna (43:32):

Know, and it's funny because I think I say this so much, but I'm like, I think so many of us and the listeners of this podcast are like, we know we are choosing, we want a business that supports our life. That is the way we want to go. But it's still funny too. We operate in a very still business world that the messaging might not always align. And I see a lot of people invest in growth, invest in growth, invest in growth, invest in growth, and then be like, wait, huh, I'm actually not making more money. Money. Or I'm working

Kathryn (44:04):

Harder,

Shanna (44:05):

I'm working harder, I'm

Kathryn (44:06):

Working harder to pay for the investments I'm trying. So yeah, my, it's

Shanna (44:11):

A

Kathryn (44:11):

Whole thing. So this year I'm simple and present, which were similar to some words you had said earlier. And I think it feels right.

Shanna (44:21):

Yeah, I love it. I love it. Well, speaking of, with that said, I want to go into a quick fire round, but before we do, I would love to hear you just chat about 15 years in business, in a world that asks us to do everything. Well be a great wife, be an awesome mom, be an incredible business owner, be the CFO, be the marketing team. How have you found harmony in these past 15 years? I'm sure it's looked imperfectly, but what are ways that you have kind of kept the main thing, the main things kept your eyes on what you want and maybe how are you doing that today?

Kathryn (45:04):

Yeah, I think that keeping, there are many things that have happened over the years that WK say are a coincidence, but I think it's keeping your eyes open and understanding that doors open and that's good, but doors close and that's okay. And I very much believe that God has opened doors for my husband and I and our family, but we're aware of them. And maybe I wasn't always aware of certain situations as they were happening, but I think it's very important, especially if you're a business owner and entrepreneur, that you spend time reflecting not only, I would say I reflect more of the things that went wrong versus the things that went good. So I'm beating myself up over failures and I'm processing failures more than I'm processing wins. And lately, I would say in the last six months, I am processing wind to help me better understand my failures. And I think when you're plowing through so fast and just chasing your dream, you have to stop and just reflect or you won't remember it. That is, I mean, that was a lot of my journey until earlier today. I was trying to prepare for this and I thought, wow, we have done a lot.

(46:35):

So I would just say reflect and be aware that when things happen, it's not just a coincidence, it's because it either is meant to be or it's not meant to be.

Shanna (46:47):

Catherine, I'm going to plug something here, which I don't normally do, plug my own product, but I want to in this situation because I'm so passionate about this conversation. So I have a goal setting course, it's called My Blueprint Year, but it comes with a goodness, I dunno, I think it's 160 pages, I can't remember Journal, and it's a printable journal. In the past, we've done physical journals, but it comes with this journal. And what I love about it is there are weekly, monthly, quarterly prompts reflect on your wins, what went well, what were highs, what were lows. And I have journaled since I was in middle school or high school for a very long time, and I love this idea of reflecting and reflecting in our business. So I created this journal to not only track data and metrics and numbers. Of course that has to be in here. Yes, it has to be because I'm obsessed. But just these questions of how are you? And

Kathryn (47:45):

It's

Shanna (47:45):

Important. Well, in the business it was so well. So for anybody listening, my blueprint ear is a goal setting course, but please know the journal that accompanies it is my favorite. I keep it with me all the time with my laptop and I just write because it's such a beautiful way. Or there's, if you have a tool out there that you love, but just journal and reflect and it's so powerful. Catherine, thanks for bringing that up. And I'm so passionate about that too, because I think we can run so fast that when we look back, it's like you don't want to miss it. It helps. Journaling helps me stay present, and I really love that.

Kathryn (48:23):

I wrote a book with a then employee, but now is friend called Ramble Together, and it was a little worksheet book, and one of the phrases we discuss in it is slow down, look around. And my friend Caitlin wrote this blip about when you're driving so fast, you only see what's in front of you. Your peripheral is gone. You just don't see blurred. It's so blurred, and we just have to take time to stop so we can actually see the beautiful landscape and see what's in front of us and not just be chasing this pavement all the time. And so just like what you said, I think it's just so important that people slow down.

Shanna (49:08):

I just wrote down the, I think somebody needs to name their band chasing Pavement because that is such a good band name. Assuming the ramble together is not like something people can buy.

Kathryn (49:22):

Actually, we just had our warehouse sale. They've been sold out for months and I've just found a box. They launched March of 2020. Oh my goodness. Funny story. 5,000 copies never went anywhere. I have

Shanna (49:39):

Given, we sell 'em

Kathryn (49:40):

So many books away. I bet I have 50 in this box. I'm not even sure if they're on the website right now, but they will

Shanna (49:46):

Be. Catherine, I'm going to have to, but when this episode goes live, I'll want 'em for our listeners. I'll save it. Slow down. Look around. I'll save it. We're going to put a link in the show notes because,

Kathryn (49:56):

Okay.

Shanna (49:57):

So we're not just all chasing pavement. That was so beautiful. I mean, I see a song in there. We need to send these lyrics to Taylor Swift. Yes, we do. Let's go to quickfire. Okay. What is one thing you would be embarrassed if people knew

Kathryn (50:12):

So many things? I don't think people realized how weird and quirky I'm, and I love fire. I love my fire pit. It's one of the things that brings me the most joy and peace. I like driving around on dirt roads. I love tacos, and when I'm in, I'm all in on stuff. So I think when people meet me in person sometimes it's like, whoa, you're a lot. And that is kind of something that has been woven and my whole childhood is whoa. But I think that, yeah, it can be embarrassing when I'm like, I show up on level 100 and people are expecting like 50. Oh, so sorry. I get really excited about a lot of things.

Shanna (50:56):

I bet you parent differently because of that as well. With my daughter, she, anytime somebody says even just the word bossy or whatever, whatever, I'm always just like, you know what? I'm a stubborn person. She's pretty stubborn. I just always say, that's going to serve you well in life going to, and so I bet the way you've been told your life, wow, you're a lot probably has made you parent a little differently.

Kathryn (51:27):

It has made me tell them more like, I see you where you are, because I did not hear that enough. Yeah.

Shanna (51:35):

Thanks for sharing that. Okay. Any regrets or wish you could do over moments?

Kathryn (51:40):

No, I don't. I think I do believe things happen and they need to happen to shape you into who you are supposed to be. So no, do-overs, just trying to be currently just trying to be more intentional and discern unless impulsive. So no, but I have notes taken on how I can make better choices moving forward.

Shanna (52:06):

Yeah, I love it. Big win or pinch me moment,

Kathryn (52:11):

I would say probably something that was very affirming is when Lindsay's team reached out to us and wanted us to help them. I love serving people, and I really, it was a huge honor to be able to help them to the capacity that we did, because financially it raised so much money for them. It helped us also all proceeds. So we were paid for the cost for me to produce the shirt, but they got all profit. And to be able to help someone on that capacity was the biggest honor I think. I feel like I've been a part of.

Shanna (52:58):

Yeah, I love that. All right. Best advice or just really good advice that you have received?

Kathryn (53:06):

Oh, the one that's sticking out that someone told me recently was, I don't know exactly how it was phrased, but it was stop doing blank before you it in translating that, stop producing that if it's making you unhappy. So just making sure that the things you're making for us, I am a product-based company. The things that we're producing are actually, I genuinely, I want to make sure that I believe they're serving people well in their own lives, but it's, yeah, be conscious of don't do it just to do it, but do it because it's meaningful to you and to your customers.

Shanna (53:58):

I think that's so powerful because we tend to hold on things that are either working business wise, but maybe not working for us. Sometimes we hold onto things a little too long and it's always like, you know, hold on a little long, feeling bitter or resemble or, I see that with jobs. I think sometimes we hold on a little too long because it's going, it's financially rewarding or it's, you know what I'm saying? So I think that's really powerful

Kathryn (54:26):

Advice. Yeah, advice. And in this season, I do too, and in this season, and I remember the remark came out of, out of context, I think I was talking about how things were going, and it was a pause and they just said, stop before you resent something. I was like, oh, okay.

Shanna (54:47):

I have to process that.

Kathryn (54:48):

Okay, I'm going to process that. So I think recent, yeah, I've received tons of good advice, but that one sticks out because it feels relevant right now.

Shanna (54:55):

Yeah. Okay. Last quick fire and then we'll send it off. What are you working on now or one resource that you would like to share?

Kathryn (55:05):

Just new products. We just are about to launch a bunch of new designs. I don't know when this will air, but we do host a few events primarily in our Waco location because we have an event portion. We have an event venue attached to our Waco retail location, so we rent it out for parties, but we also host vendor markets our own, where we get to have small businesses come in. And I would just plug, if you can ever come to one of our events in Waco, please do and check out our products online. I've produce and really print new stuff on a monthly basis. So yeah, just check. I would plug just our website if you are not local to Texas or Waco, Wichita Falls area. And then if you ever are passing through Austin or Dallas, please stop at our store in Waco. It is so beautiful, and we are in the best little area of Waco,

Shanna (56:03):

And Waco is so fun. It's

Kathryn (56:05):

So fun.

Shanna (56:05):

We'll put all the links in the show notes. Of course. I can't wait to see your new designs. Catherine, this has been so much fun. I just soaked up your time. I mean, it just has been such a really good to spend time with you. I'm excited to see what's next. As you process that in the next season for you and your family and your business, take a look back to send it off day one, buying your uncle's, I think you said your uncle's screenprinting.

Kathryn (56:33):

Yes, my great uncle. Yes.

Shanna (56:35):

Your great uncle's screenprinting tools for $11,000. What would you tell yourself looking back now on day one?

Kathryn (56:43):

I don't know. I would say I never imagined this is what I would be doing full time. I would say trust yourself. Yeah. I think there are natural human, there's a human element of doubt and fear and understanding that it's okay to be scared, but don't let it hold you back, and I very much have not felt held back, but there have been times where I struggled and really just don't sleep because I stress about decisions I need to make, and I would just tell her to trust herself.

Shanna (57:20):

Yeah.

Kathryn (57:21):

Yeah. So good.

Shanna (57:23):

Catherine, thank you so much for sharing your heart and just your journey with business. I mean, just talking about such real things like isolation and trusting yourself and finances and it's things. I think as entrepreneurs so many of us feel, I mean, we're running these businesses sometimes feeling a little unequipped and by ourselves, right? It was just really good to spend

Kathryn (57:46):

Time with you.

Shanna (57:46):

Yeah.

Kathryn (57:47):

Find your people. It's very important. Yeah.

Shanna (57:51):

Catherine, this has been good. It's so good to know. Thank you for having me. Next time. I'm Waco, I'm coming over.

Kathryn (57:56):

Oh, please do.

Shanna (57:57):

Hey, wildflower, you just finished another episode of Consider the Wildflowers the podcast. Head over to consider the wildflowers podcast.com for show notes, resource links, and to learn how you can connect with Catherine. One final thought for today from Francis Chan, our greatest fear should not be a failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter. As always, thank you for listening. I'll see you next time.