Consider the Wildflowers
Consider the Wildflowers
088. Shanna Tells All! Running a Business Without Social Media - Season Three Kickoff (Part I)
Consider the Wildflowers the podcast is officially back for season three! Keeping tradition with our season kickoff episodes, we’re turning the tables a bit—Rhiannon Bosse is here to interview me about something that has profoundly shaped my personal and professional life: running a business without social media.
If you've ever dreamed of escaping the endless scroll and reclaiming your time, this episode is for you.
WILDFLOWER SHOWNOTES : https://shannaskidmore.com/season-three-kickoff/
📌 RESOURCES MENTIONED:
My 2017 Instagram Departure Video
Blog Posts About My Social Media Free Experiment
Heath Wilson: Create Healthy Habits with Technology
Erin Loechner: From HGTV to Living Tech Free
Shanna (00:00):
We had planned this three month road trip where we were going to take off for three months to celebrate these huge milestone moments in our life and business, and that was how we had originally come up with a goal for the launch was to take that three months off and fund our business and fund our bills. We surpassed that goal. Kyle graduated. We went on this road trip and I remember Ree that I was trying to document this road trip. I was taking pictures where we were going, and I was so frustrated because again, I couldn't get the images to look right or I was trying to write these beautiful words, or I would post something and it wouldn't get as many likes as I wanted or thought that it should. And it was Dampering this incredible experience that we were having, this trip, honestly, of a lifetime.
(00:51):
You're listening to Consider The Wildflowers the podcast, episode 88, season three kickoff. Let's go. I am beyond thrilled to be back for season three. Thank you for listening, reviewing and sending sunshine our way. We love hearing how this podcast encourages you on your own entrepreneurial journey. We have some incredible interviews lined up for season three, as well as a few highly requested solo shows. Today is a phone one, keeping tradition with our season kickoff episodes. I sat in the hot seat and my friend Ri and Bozi is here to interview me about something that has profoundly shaped my personal and professional life running a business without social media. If you've ever dreamed of escaping the endless scroll and reclaiming your time, I'm so very excited to deep dive with re over the next two episodes. Yes, we got very chatty all about my journey running my business without relying on social media since 2017.
(01:39):
Over the next two episodes, I'll be sharing all about my journey of leaving social media behind exploring the reasons, the process and the aftermath, as well as my tips for transitioning off social media. This is a topic near and dear to my heart, and it felt like the perfect way to kick off season three. However, before we dive in, I want to frame this conversation a bit because every time without fail, I talk about being social media free. It brings up a lot of feelings for those listening. I expect nothing less today. Some of you listening love social media. Some of you despise it, others probably fall somewhere in between. And whether you believe social media is a necessary evil in running a business in 2024 or the greatest blessing to small business since the internet, my goal is simply to share my own journey and be open about how this very personal decision has impacted my business.
(02:25):
I hope above all else that you don't feel shame or guilt and how you choose to use social media, but instead feel empowered that social media is a choice and one you get to make. Okay, you ready? Shanna tells all social media Marketing part one. Let's dive in. Hey, it's Shanna, and this is Consider the Wildflowers, the podcast. For the past 15 plus years, I've had the honor to hear thousands of stories from entrepreneurs around the world. As a former Fortune 100 financial advisor turned business consultant, I have a unique opportunity to see the reel behind the highlight reel. I'm talking profit and loss statements, unpaid taxes, moments of burnout, and those of utter victory. Or as my husband says, the content everyone is wondering but not many are talking about. And now I'm bringing these private conversations to you. Hear the untold stories of how industry leaders, founders, and up and coming entrepreneurs got their start, the experiences that shaped them and the journey to building the brands they have today. Stories that will inspire and reignite encourage to redefine success and build a life and business on your own terms. Welcome Wildflower. I'm so glad you're here. Okay, Ree, welcome back to the show. This is so fun. I love these season kickoffs because I kind of get to turn the mic around and I get to sit in the hot seat. Thank you for being here as the interviewer. I'm really excited about our conversation today.
Rhiannon (03:43):
I am excited too. This is very full circle for this journalism major, and let's put these two journalism degrees to use today.
Shanna (03:52):
Let's do it. Let's do it. Okay, I'm excited. So let's just dive in and I would love for you to talk about, so we're going to talk about social media free and taking my business off of social media, what that looks like and all the nitty gritty. But I would love for you just to share what made you want to have this conversation.
Rhiannon (04:12):
So when you interviewed me a couple months ago, it was at the end of our conversation, off script, if you will, not being recorded, that I had asked you if you had ever devoted a podcast episode to your journey and just your relationship with social media. And to my surprise, you had said no. And I jokingly asked you, well, how long has it even been? At this point, I feel like there's such a distinct recollection of life before the pandemic and life after. I always think we're seniors in post pandemic life, right? There was the freshman year, and then there was the sophomore year. We're seniors already,
Shanna (04:50):
Which is crazy to think about, which
Rhiannon (04:51):
Is so crazy because the pandemic still feels so fresh in my mind, even though it also feels like so long ago. And you had said seven years, and I'm thinking, okay, wait a second. I have an 8-year-old, so that means I'm doing the math, the gymnastics math in my head, and I'm like, seven years. And this isn't a conversation that no one's had very publicly with you. I think as we have more societal conversations about technology and what that means in homes and for our mental health and in relationships and with business, I mean, you're the perfect person to enlighten people, not change minds, but enlighten people and allow them to get curious about what life and business could look like without this thing that is so seemingly critical in everyone's lives. So I am so honored and so thrilled that you're allowing me to ask you these questions, and I hope that this conversation is just a really big encouragement to your listeners and to anyone who, again, is just curious or interested in pursuing a similar adventure.
Shanna (05:51):
Thanks, Ree. Yeah, this is going to be great. Thanks for your curiosity and allowing me to share my story because you're so right. I'm very, very passionate about this conversation and I don't talk about it enough. For sure. So you ready? Let's just dig
Rhiannon (06:05):
In. We're going to talk about it today. Okay. Okay. So trying to give a little bit of structure to this conversation because you are so passionate about it and I'm so curious about it. I could see this going rogue. So if we could stick to three parts is sort of how I'm structuring this. I'd love to know about your pre-departure from social media. So kind of building up to your decision, the actual departure that you made, tangibly, what that looked like, how you prepared for it, really sort of what it looked like, and then life after your departure, what that looked like and what that has looked like. And then I have a fun few bonus questions at the end, but talk to me a bit about what you can remember about social media when you're actively using it, if you can remember that far back and how your experience was both on a personal professional
Shanna (06:47):
Level. Okay, love this question. So I'll say social media for me was Instagram. This was before, I never really Twitter, I did not all, or TikTok I don't think was around. So when we talk about social media, Facebook and Instagram, my roommate in college set up my Facebook account and my username is still the same, if that tells you anything. I don't know. I guess I'm a late adopter to all things, but Instagram. So I started my business officially in 2013, and I had an Instagram account at that time, and it was mostly pictures of my dog. And I was doing florals with Amy Saba. So it was pictures of, I was working with Amy at the time, so a lot of pictures of flowers. It was nothing for business. And then 20 14, 20 15, it started to shift because I was getting a lot of clients from the creative industry, floral designers in the wedding industry.
(07:37):
I'm sure that's when we met. So I always really struggled with Instagram because it's aesthetic, it's beautiful, and I do spreadsheets, so I never knew how to match what I envisioned in my mind for Instagram to be, and the beauty of it, I have high aesthetics anyways. I want that to be high quality with what I do for my job, which is numbers and spreadsheets, and I never could match that together. And that was really, I think you were really doing this, but not many people were doing brand shoots and actively taking photos of their job. You know what I'm saying? That was still pretty new and definitely weren't planning photo shoots just for Instagram. So that was my initial struggle with social media. I never knew how to tell a visual story at the quality I wanted, and I definitely didn't want to be taking all the pictures, which I was.
(08:37):
And so kind of a lot of people at that time, they had their Instagram husbands and I was taking pictures. I was interrupting our life trying to capture photos. So that was kind of my first initial trying to do social media for business. It was always a struggle, but I got a ton of people off of Instagram at that time. It was bringing in 70% of my website traffic because that's where my clients were. And honestly, that's where they still are. So that was kind of my early experience with social media, and I just kept trying to trudge through it until 2017.
Rhiannon (09:16):
Do you feel like, okay, so you bring up a really good point that the heart and soul of what you do is numbers, and numbers are not only unappealing and aesthetics. How do you fluff up a spreadsheet? Right. You don't. And also, this is very much the heartbeat of what you're passionate about. A lot of people avoid numbers in their businesses. The very people you're catering to, you're serving them because they can't do that part well themselves. So
(09:44):
To try and make that attractive would be a challenge in and of itself. Do you feel like, and I'm kind of jumping ahead to bonus questions here, but do you feel, or what would it look like if you were to go back to Shanna in 20 13, 20 14 and have gone a different direction with a creative business or even stuck with the floral side of things where the content was different and more easily accessible at your fingertips? What do you think your relationship to social media would've looked like if you had more visually driven content to share?
Shanna (10:15):
Oh, that's such a good question. Ree. I think it would've been easier. I say that, and then I know there's people out there struggling. I don't know how to take pictures. We aren't photographers. I am not a photographer. And now I know there's a lot of opportunity where you can buy photographer presets, but I just did not know how to take my own pictures and make them beautiful to the level I wanted them to be. Maybe what I would've told myself is what I need to tell myself and all new things right now. I'm blogging a lot, writing a lot. Writing's a weakness for me. We all start as beginners somewhere. So maybe if I had given myself more grace, the more you do it, the better you'll get. I think it would've been easier because the content would've been more beautiful. Florals are beautiful, but I think I still would've struggled with editing it and making it, I'm not a photographer and I didn't have the funds.
(11:08):
And at that time, that wasn't even a thing to really hire photographers to take these stock photos basically for you, I think there's a lot more opportunity now. There's a lot of stock imagery that's beautiful. I know people do photo shoots, but I think I still would've struggled. I wish I had just focused on the story more like writing. I always loved sharing the story and the heart behind what I do, the life numbers provide for you. Sure. That's what people were most drawn to anyways. But yeah, I really wanted it to be beautiful. I know people out there can resonate with this, and I just couldn't get it there. Even with a different subject matter, I think I still would've struggled. And I didn't want an Instagram husband. I didn't want to put my phone out all time. And I am actually pretty introverted. I don't know. I mean, I talk about this more now, but people, I'm very friendly and I love meeting new people, but I'm that person that buy a farm and bury my gold. That's who I am. And so putting my face on there all the time, and now that I have kids, I think I still, y'all social media,
Rhiannon (12:12):
So many levels, it
Shanna (12:14):
Would still struggle.
Rhiannon (12:14):
The whole kids on social media thing is a different conversation for a different day. But I actually stopped sharing my kids' faces, and I don't think I've shown their faces probably in years. Maybe beginning of pandemic was the last time. And those images were very, I don't want to say censored, but the backs of their heads, if you will. So you could make out their stature and size in general age, but distinguishing facial features, I very much felt uncomfortable sharing those things and just wanted to be really aware of their agreement of those things and what they would think looking back and again, another conversation for another day. But I respect that a lot about you. So what do you feel, or what can you recollect, aside from not wanting to have social media interrupting your life anymore, which I love was maybe a defining moment, time place that you were at where you felt, okay, this is it. It's time to make a change.
Shanna (13:15):
So in 2016, I had just launched the blueprint model, which is my signature program, all about business and finance for creative entrepreneurs. Also, at that time, my husband Kyle had just graduated with his second degree in engineering. It was a huge time of celebration. We launched the program. We, I think had wanted around 30 people to enroll, which would've been huge. That would've been a 60,000 launch. We had 54 people the first time. So we did 108,000 in sales, a six figure launch. The first time, I had no idea what we were doing. We were just like, if we could serve more people, we recorded the first one at our kitchen table. It was just such a blessing for our family financially, but a blessing to get to work with 54 people where before I could only work with very few. So we had planned this three month road trip where we were going to take off for three months to celebrate these huge milestone moments in our life and business.
(14:12):
And that was how we had originally come up with a goal for the launch, was to take that three months off and fund our business and fund our bills. So we surpassed that goal. Kyle graduated. We went on this road trip, and I remember Ree that I was trying to document this road trip. I was taking pictures where we were going, and I was so frustrated because again, I couldn't get the images to look right, or I was trying to write these beautiful words, or I would post something and it wouldn't get as many likes as I wanted or thought that it should. And it was dampering this incredible experience that we were having, this trip, honestly, of a lifetime where we traveled all around the country, and I remember my husband multiple times, he would say, Shanna, why do you need that? Why do you need Instagram?
(15:05):
Why do you need to show up there? Why do you need that? And I remember being like, I have to have it. I run a business. This is where all my clients are. I have to have it. And we had many, many, many conversations because he was watching it from an outsider's perspective, stealing my joy. I was allowing it to steal my joy. And I do want to say, I think I get this pushback all the time when I talk about social media. Some people love it, some people really truly thrive in it. And I think great. That was not me. I was not thriving. I was very emotionally connected to it, and I spent so much time on it. So that was where it started. It really was Kyle saying, why do you have to have that? And we were on this amazing trip, and I remember there were days where I would go and we would have no cell service, no internet, nothing. I couldn't post. And I remember feeling like a weight was lifted. I didn't have to be connected. So that's really where this idea was strongly planted in my mind. That was 2016. Okay.
Rhiannon (16:08):
So then 2016, you feel this pole. It's almost like a physical reaction. You have your husband noticing how you're feeling. You're on this amazing trip. So let's kind of segue into part two then, where you actually lead up to the decision to, Hey, we're going to do this thing. Walk me through what that looked like, because I don't think you woke up one morning and just deleted Instagram and said, that's it. There was obviously some strategy, some thought, probably some hard decisions, probably conversations to be had with your team, with your business. Walk me through the actual nitty gritty of how you handled this.
Shanna (16:42):
Yes. Okay. So that was the summer of 2016, and it really sat with me for the next six, nine months later was when I left. And I really feel like, honestly, I feel like it was God telling me that I needed to let this go, and I had such a fear that my business would fail, that people would forget me, that everything we had built would go away. And I think that's why I had to leave. I had to trust the Lord. And I know not everybody listening shares the same faith, but I felt like it was not just a nudge from my husband or my heart. I felt like it was something I was called to do, but I was really scared. So I did not do it immediately. First of all, documented the numbers. I knew that 70% of our traffic was coming from social media.
(17:38):
So I went in after I finally decided and finally listened, okay, let's do this. And I wanted to do it more like a detox. I would say that's how it started. So it was going to be for three months. And I set a goal that when I left, I wanted to replace that traffic from Instagram with a more sustainable marketing source. So for us, that was blogging, SEO, doing more on the blog side. And so again, I looked at all of our numbers coming from Instagram. I looked at how much time I was tracking my time. I love tracking my time. Please track your time if you're not doing it. I use a free tool called Toggle, T-O-G-G-L. And so anytime that I was working on editing a photo for Instagram or writing a post for Instagram, I would track that amount of time.
(18:33):
I was really organized. I was pre-planning everything I was using, which I don't even know is still around, but I was setting all the boundaries. I was pre-planning my posts. I would go in for 30 minutes a day and engage right back to the dms and comments. So it was about five hours a week that I was on and committed to creating content for Instagram. So I was like, if I could take that five hours a week and replace that with one blog post, so write the blog post, prep the blog post, put it on Pinterest. That was my strategy. And so I wanted to take that time and replace Instagram traffic with a more sustainable for me form of traffic. It took 18 months. That was all for a year and a half. What I thought would be a three month detox, which we'll talk about, turned into a year and a half.
(19:24):
After three months, I kind of forgot about it. Truly, the first three months were hard, but after that, it wasn't. And I came back after 18 months and we'll talk about that. And then went off after a week, I think, and haven't come back. So that was how I prepared to leave. If I were to do it now, which I know is jumping ahead read. So I'm not going to say this a lot, but if I were to do it now, there were some more things I would've done. I would've applied for all of the influencer accounts. I wanted Amazon storefront to know it, I think is what it's called. Any kind of accounts like that that you want for affiliate links. I would've done any affiliate links, like any software I use, I would've applied for those because they look at your Instagram following and your activity on Instagram.
(20:12):
And so I got denied for a bunch of that stuff for a long time. I would've done that first, but I completely went off. I took my profile down. I did not just leave it up and leave a link. I took it off. And I'm glad I did because now I cannot log into Instagram. I can't look at, I can look at your posts, I could maybe look up your profile, but then I would get kicked off. I would get prompted to log in. Got it. So it became like a fail safe for me. I could not even get on, which was what I needed. Right, that
Rhiannon (20:46):
Firm.
Shanna (20:47):
Yeah. So
Rhiannon (20:49):
In terms of, sorry, I'm processing so many of your answers to these things. So some of my responses don't feel super eloquent, but I think it's important to note that all of your questions or answers to my questions rather, are coming from a place of, well, you're not on Instagram actively as yourself responding to people posting things. You do still have a social media presence manned by your team. Correct.
Shanna (21:19):
Okay, great. Great question. I am pretty sure it's funny. Yes and no. I don't even know the answer to this. Yes and no. So last year, one of the ladies on my team asked me if they could turn. I did not have it even on. You couldn't even find me for years. I think now if you look it up, I could probably look it up. You could find me. So you
Rhiannon (21:40):
Definitely do.
Shanna (21:41):
She turned it on. You do. So I could get an Amazon storefront and a Target affiliate account, and now I think that they post the podcast to the stories. Yes. So you won't see any active posts, but you'll see stories yet. And I don't do, it's not me. I don't even know how to log in.
Rhiannon (22:03):
Yeah. So your last post,
Shanna (22:05):
Which we can talk
Rhiannon (22:06):
About was 2019, August 7th, 2019. It's a quote, and then you have your follower account who you're following, and then 890 posts. So while you are not necessarily manning this account,
Shanna (22:19):
So I have not done it since 2017. Okay, got it. So I had team members probably in 2018 or 2019, I think it's kind of like it's come on. It's come off. But when I have not had a team, it has been fully off. If you looked it up, it's not there. And I actually think that's better. And the reason why is because you were judged based on your follower account. And I had 15,000 followers before I ever went off Instagram. In 2017, I had over 15,000 followers. So my account has not grown at all. If anything, it's gone down. But 15,000 in 2017 was a lot. 15,000 now, I think is maybe still not a bad number, but it's not great. And so if I try to go and apply for an affiliate account through somebody, or I just find that people look you up on Instagram first. And so if you're not active, it's the same reason on your blog. I tell people, if you aren't actively writing on your blog, take off the take the data, take the data off, take
Rhiannon (23:28):
The data off. So
Shanna (23:29):
It doesn't say last published post 2018, if you're not active just for me on Instagram, it was better if I didn't have it, because what happened, if people can't find you on Instagram, where do they go? Your website? And that's what I wanted them to do. I want them to go to my website. So now we have it. And this is a great conversation I should have with my team. I guess it's up. They had to make it active, honestly, I truly believe this is why we got an Amazon throw, an Amazon under the bus. We got denied for years for an Amazon storefront. And my team last year asked me if they could turn it on. They reapplied, we got accepted. So I don't know, but that doesn't seem like a coincidence.
Rhiannon (24:12):
And then so back to what I was going to ask because Oh, sorry. No, no, you're totally fine. That was really important information, knowing that you have this account that your team is managing and that it is a place to still be seen if people are looking for you, where you can share episodes of the podcast and almost have a landing spot, even though you're not personally greeting people at the door. Do you feel like your, how do I word this? Your experience, this journey of how you approach social media, how you use it, how you don't use it, would be the same, and your business would be the same if that account was completely dark and gone.
Shanna (24:53):
Yeah, I think it doesn't help or hurt us. Got it. At all. Okay. Honestly, I was a little bit convicted. I had a conversation on the podcast with Eric McVay, and we actually discussed social media a little bit, and he said he uses his social media account. Now, he wouldn't have it either, is kind of how I took it. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but when he posts, he gets to shout out the other vendors that he worked with, the floral designers, the planners, like other people he worked with on the event, and he got to use his platform to champion them. Oh, that's cool. And I think that's the conversation we had with my team. This was last year sometime about why we posted stories. Because I do feel we have our blog, of course, and our email list, but I want to thank all of the people on our podcast who have come and given of their time, we want to shout them out as well. And so I think that's probably why the team also posts to Instagram. But yeah, it doesn't affect our bottom line at all. If anything, it probably hurts it.
Rhiannon (25:59):
Well, I don't know if it hurts it, but I just wonder how many people listening who might struggle with Instagram aren't struggling with Instagram specifically or social media specifically, but instead with the emotions, it's triggering. And if we were to utilize it differently, whether that's a team or a management company or some type of Planary app, like you said, if our relationship and our outlook on social media would shift because we were removed from the inner workings of it, the vanity metrics, I haven't posted in five days. People are, am I missing out? Are people wondering what I'm up to? I have to go keep tabs on this person. There's just so many intricacies of the app and what we're thinking, what other people are thinking, and a lot of them are made up too. So I wonder if we're missing out on an opportunity to use Instagram as a tool. It's just allowing other people to use it for us.
Shanna (27:04):
Okay. So can I speak to that? I would
Rhiannon (27:06):
Love that.
Shanna (27:06):
Go. I don't know what you're going to think about this, but I have seen, what I have seen is yes, so my team can post to it. It is a marketing tool for our business. I know that without Instagram, I will likely never get discovered by Joanna Gaines for Magnolia Network. Actually, you know what? I think I could, if enough of your fans reach out to her. I know there are people finding people for podcasts where I know I've missed out on a lot of opportunities. I feel like I live kind of quiet over here, if that makes sense. But I do also know that whether we're posting to stories or not, I hope that Instagram has an algorithm. And if you don't play to the algorithm, then it's really not doing anything. So yes, while my team can post on there and my team can show up, they would have to really show up in order for, I think the algorithm to reward us.
(28:09):
And as I understand it, all of these apps, the goal is to keep the audience on there longer. And so I would have to be interacting with you and DMing you and replying to your comments and writing. Really, I feel like I would have to be engaged for Instagram particularly. That's the only one I can really speak to, reward us. Does that make sense? And so yes, I think you can have a marketing team do it. Yes, I think you can have someone on your team maintain a presence, just know the strategy behind it. And I think it's also important to know there is an algorithm and their goal is to keep people on the platform longer. So if you aren't doing what they want, don't get discouraged. I think be very specific on why you're there and what your goal is. And we still very much limit it because we believe that our time is better spent on marketing elsewhere.
Rhiannon (29:11):
I almost liken it, or maybe I even read this somewhere, it's been a while that I've kept this analogy in my head and heart, but a lot of social media, not even just Instagram, but apps in general, technology in general, again, a bigger conversation for another day are very much designed to be like slot machines where you think just one more pull, one more open, one more refresh is going to give you the thing you need. Whether the thing is a visual or a piece of, I mean, it's all pieces of content, but a burst of inspiration, a good laugh, a controversy, a deep desire to contribute to the comment section, which nothing ever good happens in the comment section. We have this insatiable desire to just more and more and more and more thinking the next thing that we receive is going to fulfill whatever desire it is we're looking to fulfill. And it's such a dangerous way to fill your day. And it is such an addictive, not for everybody, of course, but
Shanna (30:14):
I think for most people I do. I really do think, and I want to say Ree, that I want to share my experience I have not done, there are so many people who've done extensive research. There's so many incredible books out there. So if that's someone, if they really want to, I'm just sharing my experience because I don't know all of those things. And I could be wrong, but I will say, I think that's right. It's created to be addictive. And I think this is interesting to note, I left social media when it was still chronological. And so you could catch up on your feed, you could go through it. Is that the right word? Yeah, chronological. Well, and also I could see where I ended and catch up on everybody and then be off and
Rhiannon (30:56):
Be good. But you also left before, if I may note, because I think this is important also before reels,
Shanna (31:03):
Absolutely.
Rhiannon (31:03):
You left before carousels where you could upload multiple images in one post, right?
Shanna (31:10):
I'm actually pretty sure I left before stories, and then my team came back in 20 18, 20 19, and then, yeah, and now utilize stories, but I never, yeah, that was before stories
Rhiannon (31:21):
And that changed. And the other thing, when all of these new features, if you will, rolled out with Instagram, the algorithm also started rewarding people who were utilizing all features. So not only now were things not chronological. There was a system you had to beat, but now you can't just put all your eggs in one bucket and put up a really beautiful image with a thoughtful caption. But then there's the hashtags that you need to be systematic about. And now you need to also be posting on your stories. And you need to upload three reels a week, and you need to engage with 10 people and don't leave your dms unanswered. And it's like, I
Shanna (31:55):
Feel tired,
Rhiannon (31:56):
So tired. And it's like, I hope you flossed your teeth today because you're going to spend all your time on social media trying to figure out the system. So
Shanna (32:06):
Ree, that's where I just get to, if we look at it from a purely marketing perspective, all of that time can be spent elsewhere and I think create longer lasting. Kyle and I talked about, my husband and I talked about this the other day. He does all of our marketing strategy now. We actually kept speaking of Facebook the whole time. We did not post to it, but we ran our first Facebook ad in 2018 or 2019. So we had Facebook, I think the whole time because we used ads. So I just had this conversation with Kyle the other day, my husband and I said, and he said, we're playing, I can't remember exactly how I said it, but basically talking about SEO and content creation, the long game, the right game, but it's the slow game. And Instagram, social media is kind of like a quick win, a quick hit, but then it's gone.
(33:01):
And so again, I still think what I went to in 2017 was like, how could I take these five hours and use it better if I'm only thinking about social media as a marketing platform? I'll tell you, and I know this one of your questions later on, but I miss the community. I miss the dms. I miss out on so many things. I feel truly off the grid. And while I like that in a lot of ways, and I miss it, I miss out on speaking opportunities. There's so much I miss because I'm not on there, and that doesn't go away. But if you're looking at purely marketing, there's a better use of your time. Yeah.
Rhiannon (33:42):
Oh man. Okay. Still so many questions to ask. Okay. We're unpacking so many things here.
Shanna (33:47):
I'm excited.
Rhiannon (33:48):
Okay. So we talked a little bit about the tangible steps and the time that you took away and what that looked like. But just if you could even break it down into three bullet points, what were the three things you did from, Hey, I'm going to get off of social media to, okay, now I'm off. If you could pinpoint just three important things looking back that helped you make that transition, emotions aside, what were those three things?
Shanna (34:16):
So I set a date of when I was going to leave. I told my team and I wrote a blog post about it, why I was leaving, and I did an Instagram post. You know what? It's funny. I did a video. I think it's still probably on there. I recorded
Rhiannon (34:39):
A video, put in the show notes first
Shanna (34:40):
Thing.
Rhiannon (34:41):
Yeah. Oh, I'll put a video in the show notes and the blog post so that people can go back and read it.
Shanna (34:46):
Okay. Yeah. This is 2017. Y'all said, don't judge me. Okay, Ree. So I set a date, told my team, created a video to post on Instagram saying Bye-bye. And a link to the blog post. And then again, I recorded all of our numbers and data, so how much time I was spending on Instagram, how much it was bringing to our website at the time I wanted to document it. I called it my social media free experiment. That was before that detox term came about. And I went off and I think it was the first day of Lent, I remember, oh, smart. In 2017, I went off and I don't think I planned that. It just happened to be that way, and that's what I did. And then I started writing blogs and we did YouTube for a little bit, and I started an email list.
(35:42):
So I just worked on other marketing strategies and more long-term, social media is just content creation. That's what it is at its core. If you think about just the marketing for business content creation. So how could I create content that's going to live and last longer? So that's what I did. I'm going to be honest, I didn't do it well. I blogged really inconsistently. I did emails really inconsistently for years. My business would be so much further along if I had shown up in blogging and long form content and all that. But that's what I did. And I went off and there's so many things I could tell you what happened after that. But I will tell you, my biggest fear felt like it happened. I felt like I truly was forgotten. That was 2017. The other thing that we did to prep, which is big, I can't believe I didn't say this first.
(36:37):
We created a financial plan for our business to know how much money we needed to sustain us for the entire year of 2017. And at that time, we were doing kind of open cart, closed cart. We sold our main program one time a year, the blueprint model. So we opened the blueprint model right before we went off. And so basically that funded us for the entire year, which I know sounds crazy to some people, but we did a big enough launch where we could, if we made $0 for the rest of the year, we would be okay personally and in the business. I know that's a huge privilege and not something everyone can do, but I would definitely say it hurt our business. We lost traffic. I truly felt like I was a forgotten for a very long time.
Rhiannon (37:28):
Okay,
Shanna (37:29):
So wait, so I'm thankful I didn't have to worry about the money.
Rhiannon (37:31):
Yeah. Okay. So hold that thought. It hurt your business. However, the time you got back, not having the kink in your neck from looking down at your phone, your eyes straining with your phone in your hand at night when you go to bed, the reaching for your phone and the impulse, the comparison of things that you're seeing online, which back then felt very different than it does now. Would it be fair to say, looking back, that maybe some things in your business were hit, that the things you gained far outweighed the loss?
Shanna (38:11):
Ree, if I could cry on this podcast, if I could give everyone listening, I will cry a hug and say, it's the best thing you'll ever do for your life and for your business. That's what I would tell them. I remember, there's so many stories I could tell you, but I took all of, and I didn't even have. What's interesting, I didn't even have email on my phone. I don't have Facebook on my phone. I don't have Instagram on my phone. I didn't back then either. I literally used it as a marketing tool. I would log in, I would log off. I had such good boundaries and it still affected me. And I remember one time I was at a speaking event and somebody bravely asked me, they were like, what do you even talk to your husband about? And I was like, that is such a vulnerable question, but it's so true.
(39:05):
Do you ever feel like you, you're so wrapped up in your business, this can happen. Or social media, you don't even know how to have conversations anymore outside of those things. And that was one of the biggest things I loved that I saw happening was just enjoying my husband. We didn't have kids at the time, and we could talk about anything. Your eyes reopen to life outside of you and not life in your phone, and you don't feel this pressure to get back to people all the time. But it was really hard at first because I felt like, yeah, people forgot me. People move on. They're still running their businesses, they're still doing things. In fact, I actually felt like in some ways I got replaced. I was this voice, and when my voice went away, did somebody else's voice come in? And what I learned is, no, no one can be you and you just keep doing your thing.
(40:04):
But it was the best thing I ever did for my family, for my health, for my mental health. But what was funny is I had to put Pinterest on my phone because I remember I would reach for my phone would that impulse is so true. It was an addiction. It was a habit. I would just pick up my phone, but I would have nothing to look at. So I remember putting Pinterest on my phone because I was like, well, I feel safe with Pinterest and I can scroll and look and have something just for a little while. At least now I don't look at Pinterest on my phone, but for something for a little while, it helped. And I remember also when I went to another speaking event and I was sitting in the airport and I was a really small airport, and I remember looking up and just being like, I was reading a book and I was like, every single person in this airport is on their phone.
(40:52):
You see it at restaurants too, every single person. And you feel so alone and you feel so strange, and you feel like, I feel like I am unintentionally swimming upstream. I never got on this. It's not like a crusade for maybe now it's more so I'm pretty passionate about it. But it wasn't like, I'm not trying to get everybody in the world off of social media. I just wanted to get off of it. But now it feels so counter-cultural that it feels like I kind of am on this journey that I didn't necessarily ask to be on. But people are so curious about it because I think 99% of people want to be off social media, honestly, if they were just to get honest about it. So yeah, those are the tangible steps. That's how it felt. Okay.
Rhiannon (41:44):
Yeah. Okay. So then it's been seven years, right? Is that the math?
Shanna (41:49):
Yeah, 2017. So yeah.
Rhiannon (41:52):
Okay. Seven years. Other than the community and the engaging and maybe some opportunities that possibly would've come into your path, had you have stayed the course, are there other parts that you miss?
Shanna (42:06):
Yeah, about social media. I want to, can I say one thing about, of course, the departure where you said, how did your clients react and your audience and your friends. I want to say first I think it strengthened the relationship with my clients in my audience because I had so many people reaching out saying, thank you for sharing your story and getting off and giving us courage to try the same. I still get that seven years later. I still have people say that. I love that. I still have people say, I follow you because you are not on social media. I trust you because you're on. I just in that way, I think it's totally strengthened those relationships. So I wanted to bring that up. I also wanted to bring up the fact of what I said before. If people can't find you on Instagram, they come to your website. I remember having this one email, it was the first or second weekend, someone emailed me and said, I couldn't find you on Instagram, so I signed up for your newsletter. And I was like, thank you. Exactly.
Rhiannon (43:02):
That's what we
Shanna (43:03):
Wanted. This is the point. So I will say though, about family and friends, I have missed out on my best friend's baby shower. I missed because they sent Facebook invites and I didn't get it. My best friend, and she texted me pictures after she lives in a different state, and she was like, sent me pictures, and I was like, I'm so sorry. I literally didn't even know this was happening. Somebody else threw for her. Got it. Of course. Or she would've invited me. Sure. But her friend threw it for, and she didn't even know that I didn't know. And my family, they want to post pictures of our kiddos and Can we announce your baby? You haven't announced it. So it's just an interesting, when you choose to live differently than others in your life, no matter what it is, you have to know why. Right. Okay. Now, many years later, let's go back to, what was your question before I got on that tangent?
Rhiannon (43:57):
No. Okay. In your response there, inspired another question, not to keep comparing businesses and the means in which we share our gifts and our services with the world, but how do you think somebody who does have a highly visual business, let's say floral design, just given myself and your background, would thrive, survive given the day with a journey you've had where they're catering to highly emotional clients, spending a good amount of money on a very big life milestone that is a one-time, one and done type experience. How do you think somebody would go about, and I'm jumping ahead now here too, but how do you think somebody would go about removing themselves from social media and still ensuring that they were able to have success? Is this purely a case of you got to get scrappy, creative, figure it out, find some other ways, work a little bit harder and smarter, or is this the same formula would apply in your opinion?
Shanna (45:09):
It's such a good question. I think that we overestimate the value of social media and underestimate the value of other long form content. And because we overvalue social media, we put so much time and energy and effort into it. Whereas if I have an artist that I just found via Pinterest that I have purchased multiple prints and pieces from, and I need to email her and tell her, I found you on Pinterest. That's how I found a lot of people. And I think how many people are working on their Pinterest strategy and posting all of these amazing images to Pinterest? Same. I would kind of flip that around too. If you're afraid of your clients, like, oh, I'm afraid if I don't post this photo shoot or this wedding on social media, my client's going to get upset. And I'm like, well, I kind of want to say, what if you post it and it doesn't do as well as your last one?
(46:16):
How could that crush your client? Was my event not as pretty as there? There's just so many things. If you think about it differently and fight for the, let's get off of social media, I think you'll see that there's so many reasons that it would be better for a lot of people, but we so often fight for it. And I think long form content and SEO, I still truly believe, and I said this seven years ago, my clients, who are the ones that their businesses, they're the ones on Magnolia Network, they're the ones on Forbes. They're the ones making seven and eight figures. Those clients started as bloggers. That is how they got known. First is SEO. And I still think that's what's going to work for us in 2024. I mean, marketing trend alert, I guess. I still think that's how we, again, it's the long game.
(47:13):
It's not the fast game. And so I would say, and anyone listening who has a highly visual business, and I love kind of going back with what Eric McVay said of how to shout out vendors. How could you do that in a way other than social media? What if you like, I'm going to fight to get this published somewhere. I'm going to fight to get you SE. I think so often we make the case for social media when in fact, if we flipped it around and said, maybe I could do better without it and serve my people better that way. Maybe that's, you know what I'm saying? Well, it's
Rhiannon (47:48):
Putting the social back in the media. We get so caught up in the media being the content and just pedal to the metal, right? Pump it out, pump it out, pump it out. What's going to get in front of the most people? It's the pursuit of the viralness right now. And instead, it's like you said, how can we lift up others? How can we have a goal so that when we log on or open the app, we aren't just halfheartedly scrolling without any intention of what we're trying to do? Because that's when it gets a little slippery, and that's when your spouse or your partner or your kids are saying, mommy, put your phone down. You've been looking at it too long.
Shanna (48:34):
And I think people say, if you start with a blog, right? Start with the blog. That's the most important piece of content. And then you can push it out to Pinterest, you can push it out to Instagram, you can push it out to Facebook, and that's great to have a social media strategy. It can be just a tool for marketing. But I think we have to ask ourselves, particularly with Instagram, maybe, I don't know if there's other places where it's social, it's truly still social. Is that still serving you? Can you get back? Do you feel the pressure to get back to all the dms? If you don't, then okay. If you don't feel the pressure to get back to all the comments, then okay, you have to know what works for you. But again, I think so many people fight for it because we feel like we have to just say, why do you have to have it?
(49:17):
And if you don't want it, you don't have to. We talked about this read before. It's so individual to each person, and I just want to be the voice that says, if you don't want it like me, I did not want it. I want it off. It was not good for my mental health. It was not good for my business. It was not good for me. If I logged on first thing and saw my post didn't do good, or somebody sent me a mean dm, which has just escalated more since 2017, not less. People have become a lot more combative. I hear horror stories and I'm just like, how does that affect the rest of your day? Do you think you can show up and do your best work and write a blog or an email or show up for your clients in the best way? If you're hurt, if your emotions are hurt, I could, or for your
Rhiannon (50:05):
Family, right? On a more sustainable level, how do you show up for your kids at the bus stop or your husband at dinner or your sick mom that you're caring for, or whomever, whatever it is that you're showing up for in your life, how do you do that with a full present heart when pieces of it are left in a DM from a stranger
Shanna (50:25):
And it hurts it? There is psychological studies, and I, again, you all look them. I don't know. I'll try to find it and put 'em in the show notes. But I remember this from when I have a psychology degree. I learned this in my classes that for every one negative comment that's said to a child, I think you have to say five or maybe 10 positive comments, like negative comments stick to our brains. Whereas positive comments bounce, quote me on any of that. But that's how I receive. You heard it here first, that message. Yeah. Statistics. And I think we feel that if, even if you sense negativity, and maybe this is just the nine Enneagram in me, and if I was, and I remember we used to say this to myself, if I was just stronger, if I could just have better boundaries, I can still do this. I could still show up if I was just mentally stronger. I would shame, almost shame myself that I wasn't doing it right, that I wasn't doing social media well enough and see how all these other people can do and it doesn't affect them. And I'm like, does it not?
Rhiannon (51:34):
They have a thicker skin, right? Yep. I've had those same thoughts, and I think we focus so intently on what we're going to lose if we were to make a departure instead of what we would gain
Shanna (51:47):
And you will gain. For me, I gained the world. My business I love that is so much better. And I'll tell you, we did 200 and 250,000 2017. We did 450,000 in 2018. We did 750,000 in 2019. And in all of those years without relying on social media to grow and sell our products. And I will say, yeah, we had affiliate partners who still shared on social media, and that'll happen for you all too. If you decide to go off, they'll still be vendors who share your work. They'll still be fans. That's the goal. Our fans will tell their friends. And so it wasn't like Shannon's disappeared from social media entirely. It's just I'm not, and then I think people are like, oh, she's not on social media. It's awesome. It's like our presence. But you did ask me what I miss about it. I do miss. I truly don't know what's going on in people's lives, and people don't know what's going on in mine. And in some ways, I like that. Now I blog personal things. I blog more even if I read them myself. But there is, I miss the social aspect, like the original design for these platforms before they became marketing machines
Rhiannon (53:09):
Like a Tumblr. Yeah. We need Tumblr to come back.
Shanna (53:12):
I know. Let's, let's bring back Zenga.
Rhiannon (53:15):
What was, oh my God,
Shanna (53:18):
I missed the social part. I miss that. It still feels like people can go viral and get on those vanity metrics, get on in magazines or get on shows, and I don't know. I think that can happen for us through SEO, but it's different. And I will say for anybody planning to go off or wanting to go off, it is a lot more work. But in the end, it's a lot less work. Does that make sense? Work you put in today is work that will pay off for years to come instead of, but it takes time, right? You can take a shortcut. Yeah. Yeah. So it's different. Hey, wildflower, think of this as intermission. We are going to pause our conversation here and pick up next week with the rest of our chat about life without social media. In the meantime, you can head over to consider the wildflowers podcast.com for show notes, resource links, and additional resources if you are considering your own social media detox. One final thought for today from Bob Goff. I used to be afraid of failing at something that really mattered to me, but now I'm more afraid of succeeding at things that don't matter. As always, thank you for listening. Make sure to tune in next week to hear part two of my conversation with Ree.
