Risky Business - Why His Biggest Fear Became His Best Decision - LFG Media Group

Company: LFG Media Group

Owners: Jonathan Daniele

Year Started: 2022

Employees: 1-10

What happens when you stop playing it safe and go all-in on performance? In this episode, Jonathan Daniele, founder of LFG Media Group, shares how he built a $2M+ agency in under two years by shifting from monthly retainers to a bold pay-per-call model.

From call center grit to entrepreneurial growth, Jonathan opens up about the risks, rewards, and mindset shifts that come with putting your money where your mouth is.

Inside This Episode: Key Takeaways

• The emotional and financial realities of scaling fast
• How to treat every client’s business like your own (and why it matters)
• Why working “on your own dime” builds better marketers

Transcript

0:02

Welcome to An Agency Story podcast where we share real stories of marketing agency owners from around the world. From the excitement of starting up the first big sale, passion, doubt, fear, freedom, and the emotional rollercoaster of growth, hear it all on An Agency Story podcast. An Agency Story podcast is hosted by Russel Dubree, successful agency owner with an eight figure exit turned business coach. Enjoy the next agency story.

Russel: 0:40

What happens when you leave the comfort of retainers and steady income to invest in a in a pay for performance model? Welcome to an agency Story podcast. I'm your host Russel. Today we're diving into the fast-paced journey of Jonathan Danieli, founder of LFG Media Group, as he shifts gears from traditional agency work to building a powerhouse paper call performance network. From scaling to seven figures plus and under two years to aiming for a$10 million vision, J D's story is all about calculated risk, big ambition, and building a results only business model. Throughout this episode, we talk about the mindset shift required for a performance model, the emotional rollercoaster of betting on your own assets and what it really means to take your own advice. Enjoy the story. Welcome to the show today, everyone. I have Jonathan Daniele with LFG Media Group with us here today. Thank you so much for being on the show today, JD.

Jonathan: 1:31

Thanks for having me. It's great to be here. I appreciate it.

Russel: 1:33

I appreciate you joining and let's get right to it. What does LFG Media Group do and who do you do it for?

Jonathan: 1:40

We are a full service digital marketing firm that specializes in search engine marketing and social media marketing. The company basically started off in the healthcare sector, primarily working with drug and alcohol rehabs, you know, in the behavioral health space, and, uh, that's where we started. We've morphed into, uh, doing a lot of insurance as well, like U65 Insurance. Just recently we've started going much, much heavier on building a pay-per-call, uh, network. We're really big in solar now. We're also working in Tort and, uh, car insurance, we're just kicking off. We also sell a ton of, uh, mental health leads as well. I wanted to be a pay-per-call network, but we started off as having, you know, monthly clients, and then now that we've had all these, these, these clients, now we're lucky enough to be able to start a paper call network. We're able to have the funding now to do it. It's not a cheap thing to start off.

Russel: 2:25

A little bit unique aspect and I'd want to learn a lot more about that. But before we get to all of that, well, I just got to get the elephant out of the room and, uh, the name LFG Media Group. What's the story there?

Jonathan: 2:38

Oh, man. I'll tell you, I'm glad you didn't ask me exactly what it stood for. But so the story behind it is I worked in a call center and I actually, that's really where I come from is a call center space originally, but worked in a call center and this one guy used to say, you know, let's effin' go, you know, all the time. That was like his, he would close a deal, and he would say either Yamaha, because Yamaha, he had a goal. He was saving up to buy a Yamaha Jetski so he would say Yamaha every time he got a deal, or he would say let's, let's effin' go. I had started a consulting business called LFG Consulting. I just named it LFG Consulting because I was just like, I'll just start with that. And then when I started this company two years ago, my wife said I have to stick with LFG, LFG group, so.

Russel: 3:17

Simple enough. Normally I, I want to wait until we get more into the story, but I don't know. I just had to know, I had to get to that right out of the gate. I have that friend too, that, uh, loves that phrase with pretty much every interaction we have but what, what a cool story. Let's go back in time even before you actually starting the agency. What was young Jonathan, where was he headed in life? What did he want to be when he grew up?

Jonathan: 3:38

Oh man, when I was younger, it was all about, I was, I was into motocross, so I wanted to be a professional motocross racer, you know? Fast forward, I, uh, you know, I ended up going to, to college. I was big into lacrosse. I got recruited to play lacrosse. After that, I ended up in Florida working for my dad who, or for my biological dad, who had a helmet business selling motorcycle helmets. That's where I started to learn about marketing was back then. He was a flea market guy, and so he was your typical sales guy and, like, he could sell anything to anybody. Then he paid somebody to teach him how to, you know, uh, use a computer and, and, and basically teach them how to build a website. That was my first introduction to digital marketing. I thought it was pretty neat back then. It's kind of where it started.

Russel: 4:17

Did that compel you to actually, like, pick up the skills to learn that? Or just, just had to play with it, interact it and work with it?

Jonathan: 4:23

Not at the time. I liked building the web, like, adding products to the website, very, like, simple point and shoot type stuff. I always had this, like, thought that I was going to own this huge call center, you know, going to be like this big call center guy. I didn't know what the business was going to be, but that was always kind of what I saw as my future. Then I worked for, I got a job at dish network down here in South Florida. I started off as a sales agent, worked up to a GM where I ended up with a hundred salespeople under me, eight other managers under me. The phones never stopped ringing. There was always 60, 70, 80 calls in queue. I was always just like, how the heck are these, how are these guys doing this? It like completely intrigued me. I was like, that's what I want to do. I want to be the guy that makes the phones ring. Nothing wrong with being a sales, um, uh, call center manager, but I was like, this is not what I want to do for the rest of my life. I don't want to manage a hundred people. It's not for me. I saw the calls coming in. I was like, I got to figure that out. That's when I really got, like, really interested in marketing. It didn't start then, but, uh, that's when, that's when the fire was lit.

Russel: 5:18

What was the day you woke up or set of days or time period where you're like, all right, I'm not working for the man anymore.

Jonathan: 5:24

That was actually, um, forced on me. Probably one of the best days of my life and, uh, was, was losing that job. Luckily, at that time, I just, that's when I was like, you know, I've, I've worked for multiple treatment centers, uh, and I've unfortunately, I've had some really horrible bosses down here. Worked for some really awful people or what I thought was, in my opinion, were awful. I was just like, I don't, it's just not an option for me. I could have picked up another marketing job, a six figure salary pretty quickly, uh, and you know, to fill the gap. I had the conversation with my wife about it and she was like, she was like, just do your thing, you know, launch, launch your company. You've been wanting this for a while. Giving me goosebumps, like, reminding me of that day, but she, she had my back the whole time. She was my, like, my biggest cheerleader because I had those doubts in my mind, like, oh, how am I going to get clients? I don't know anything about this. I don't know anything about running an agency and, uh, you know, just figured it out. It was just one of those things where I had the support behind me and I had just a couple of connections I reached out to, and that led to my first couple of clients. Then I was like, okay. I always thought, like, I'll just have a couple of clients and then sell some leads and I'll have just make double what I was making as, working at the treatment center. It's turned into, I have employees now. I have over 15 clients. The business has grown almost to 2 million dollar a year business after the second year, or, you know, coming up on our second year. I never would've imagined any of this. Honestly, I've just been very lucky with the people that have come onto my team that, uh, have helped get me here. Never would've got here by myself.

Russel: 6:45

It's not, not uncommon that a lot of folks I talk to, yes, that some, somewhere, someone along the way was that support system, that encourage or that push us off the cliff, maybe sometimes as well, uh, to go do what we often talk about in the entrepreneurial space is kind of a crazy thing to go do. I'm so glad to hear that you had that and so close to home, I imagine had to make it even better. Everything about you just so far, just, you know, it's no surprise that I think young Jonathan wanted to be a BMX racer. You seem to be a fast mover. I don't know, do you think of yourself as that? Like just once I decide and put my nose in a particular direction, I'm going a hundred miles an hour?

Jonathan: 7:18

That's a hundred percent correct. It's a blessing and a curse. Everything I do, like, you know, like we talked about at the beginning, fishing or the sim racing or, like, anything I get into, uh, especially when it comes to business, uh, with, with marketing. That's it. Especially, like, this new paper call network we're building out, I just pushed all my chips in because I believe in it. It's not like this whole thing isn't all about money to me. I love the challenge of taking something that's not being done, you know, currently by us and, like, cracking that, like cracking the code and figuring it out. Cause you know, you, you've been in the game for a while. You lose a lot of money when you first start off a new vertical and it's scary. It's very scary. I love that excitement and I love, I love seeing it when it works and when it doesn't work, that sucks too. But when it works, you feel like, feel like the Incredible Hulk. It's a great feeling.

Russel: 8:00

I imagine a lot of people are at home shaking their heads. I hear you. I know that feeling. You've touched on at least a little bit here that you started off a more pure marketing focus, but a lot of your experience background and where you said you're trying to evolve your, your product slash service to, is, is this performance or pay per aspect. Why the shift?

Jonathan: 8:18

There's a million digital marketing companies out there. I talked to a, we prospect, we talk, I, I have, our prospecting team sends me appointments constantly, so I'm constantly talking to different companies in different spaces and it's, I hear the same thing over and over again. I brought on this digital marketing company. They promised me the star on the moon and they didn't deliver. It's like the same old story. Then I'll crack into an account. I look at an account and, uh, see the account. I'm like, I can't even believe these people are providing digital marketing services. I'm not saying this to the client, but there's just so much, I want to say this gingerly, but, like, there's just so many people out there, I feel like, that don't know what they're doing and it's, and that's not just marketing, that's any industry and it just gives us marketers a bad name. So I really like the performance thing of, like, putting your money where your mouth is. I just am doing that right now for a car insurance client, uh, you know, a high risk car insurance client in Cali. And I, you know, he said, that's what he wanted. I said, you know what, we'll do that. That's kind of like what started the car insurance thing for me. It's not working out with him, unfortunately, it's one of those vertical. It's a very thin margin, um, but I like, I like the fact that it's like, I use our money. We build our assets, we build our own brands, and then we promote the heck out of them. And if it doesn't work out with that client, because maybe their sales team isn't good enough, maybe they want to go in a different direction. It's fine. Those are all of our assets. We put all of that time and energy into something that's ours and we can then take it and sell it somewhere else. I had one, and I won't go long, long about this, but I had one rehab client who, who fired me. They had a, my opinion, a very bad sales team. Another big digital marketing agency came in after me, um, saw my whole strategy, which hasn't happened to me, which I thought was a pretty, a really good strategy. I just pitched someone a couple of weeks ago, and they're dealing with that company now, and what their whole strategy is, is my exact strategy to the T. At first I was pissed off about it. I kind of knew that was going to happen sooner or later, but then I was like, hey, that's kind of cool. A big agency took my strategy and is using it for their clients now. It's kind of, kind of high praise, but I, but to answer your question is, uh, I liked the performance marketing piece because, uh, it's, it's all about us and what we're doing, you know, internally, and we can sell the calls anywhere is really what, how we feel about it.

Russel: 10:18

Getting a better sense of your personality and, you know, move fast, you know, big goals, approach. It sounds like that just as part and parcel of your personality, having been on both sides of the coin of, kind of, let's just say a more traditional agency and then a more performance based one, what, from a, just a pure business perspective, just kind of touch on the pros and cons of both types of models as you look at it?

Jonathan: 10:37

I think the pros, the pros of working, you know, on, like, a monthly retainer type of basis with clients. I like the relationships that I've built. At least in the beginning, I got to be, like, really hands on watching somebody else's business grow as a result of the help that you've given them and then seeing, you know, seeing how happy they are and excited about it. I love that. That's a super great feeling. We don't get that on the, on the performance marketing side because we're getting paid per lead. That part's really cool. The monthly recurring revenue is, it's safe. That's definitely a pro because, uh, I feel like we do a good job. We don't lose clients very often. Most of our clients have been with us for, since the beginning, for two years, except for our newer clients. It's definitely a safer move. And then you can always upsell them to more services along the way, which has been the case for us. It's always started with PPC and, you know, now we do social media and SEO and, you know, sell leads on top of it. That's all cool. The pros of the performance marketing thing, like I mentioned before, is I love that you're building your own brands and, uh, you can take it wherever it goes. It's very, very scary, you know, building out your own stuff because there's no, when you're a monthly recurring or monthly recurring revenue client, it's their money that you're playing with. It's not your own money. When it's on you, it's a little bit, it's a lot more stressful when it's the money coming out of your bank account. So that's a con to it. I would say, then, the best thing, in my opinion, uh, for the, for the pay-per-call network is, uh, just the, being able to grow something out as big as you want it as long as there's a need for those leads. Solar has been, been such a surprise. It was after doing rehab. Cause I learned, I learned digital marketing in the rehab space, which is highly competitive. Extremely, like, it was extremely hard to learn and, like, doing solar and health insurance, it's like running without a parachute on. It's just, like, super easy, I feel like.

Russel: 12:15

I'm going to net that out, high risk but potentially higher reward. If you are successful and pull it off is kind of where that comes out to.

Jonathan: 12:22

You're going to lose on the pay per call side. There's verticals we've tried to stand up that, you know, they don't work out. And that's, that's okay. It's not our, not our thing.

Russel: 12:30

For those that maybe aren't even familiar for the model, how you're setting up, it sounds like you're not marketing these businesses that you're your clients, you're creating a brand in that particular space that you're building a lead base for and then now that you've acquired that, nurtured, et cetera, you're selling those to whatever, whatever the market, the market that is your clients effectively.

Jonathan: 12:48

We build high quality video. We have a production company. It builds really high quality video for social media. Then also for our PMAX campaigns, you know, for YouTube, uh, Discovery, all that stuff. We have that, that as our brand. We build out, you know, all the meta accounts, you know, Google ads accounts, and, uh, you know, and then start promoting it and start running paid ads. Then SEO will be a long term strategy for it, but it's all paid ads in the beginning.

Russel: 13:11

Okay. Fascinating. One of the things I talk to a lot about to folks, right? You're kind of speaking to the safe model of charging hourly or kind of, um, uh, fee for, uh, every, or fee for every sweat, every ounce of sweat you put into it, but you know, can we move in the direction of a value based model? One of the questions I always ask is just, hey, if you were responsible or essentially accountable to a certain set of results to actually get paid and make the money you need to make at the end of the day, how would you perform differently in the business and interacting with clients and things like that? I imagine that's has had to come into play when you look at your model in terms of, you know, whether selecting clients or how you're working and consulting with clients, but what does that look like in your business?

Jonathan: 13:49

This may sound cliche or whatever, but every, every one of our clients, I treat it like it's our own business, or at least that's been the approach. Obviously, as we grow and get bigger, that's going to be a little bit harder to do. But everything in the beginning has been that very white glove, uh, approach with our clients. Merging into the paper call side of things, it was actually a, you know, an easy marriage for us because we're already, I was already used to treating accounts, like, I felt it when my clients would do bad. I felt it when they would lose money or they would spend all this money and not get the leads or the admissions or, or whatever that they needed. It's funny because I'm having to take my own advice that I've been giving clients for years. You got to have the budget. You got to spend the money to get the data. You got to be patient, especially with Google ads. Nowadays, it's like, we need to be able to train the AI model properly. We need to start off like max clicks. We need to spend a bunch of money to get the conversions in the account. Once we have the conversions, we could start using, um, different types of bid strategies. All those things that I've been telling my clients that I know are true, I've caught myself where I'll start off on a project and like, we'll blow a bunch of money over a couple of days. My initial knee jerk reaction is like, boom, I want to hit the pause button. But it's like, wait, what would I tell my clients? How would I handle it? That's helped me be better with the pay-per-call call side of things, because it's like taking my own advice, like, hey, like, you have to invest this money. You have to basically pay for data in the beginning is how I look at it with Google ads. And then you just push through that, like, super uncomfortable-ness, which our clients have always felt. I'm feeling now and, and guess what? We get to the other side of it and it's like, man, I'm glad I stuck it out because now it's worth it. Now it's cranking.

Russel: 15:16

I typically just, probably for my own sake, summarize kind of what I heard there and I think there's some really great takeaways in terms of, regardless of whether you're doing a performance model anyway, that this is a great approach. Take ownership, true ownership, uh, as if it was your business, this was what we told ourselves a lot in the agency. Focus on quality first and foremost, and, and then, right, that doesn't always pan out to profitability per se, but, um, in the long run, I'm going to make the argument that it does, uh, and, really, eating your own medicine or taking your own medicine and, and being the same way you are to your clients, to yourselves, and that there's not a, a difference in any way. You tell me, did I, does that, that sum up your, how your approach has been in it?

Jonathan: 15:54

You nailed it. Totally nailed it. That's been it. It's because, especially, like, with these smaller clients, some of these contractors that, like, they just started their businesses and they relied on us. You don't want to let them down because they're, they're just like us. Small business owners in the beginning that are just trying to not work for the man and get something going and, uh, take it very personally when we, when we don't perform. It almost always happens in the beginning and then, and then it works most of the time.

Russel: 16:16

That's great. I don't always nail it, but I'm glad to hear that, uh, it was a good summation there. Again, I love your approach. It's very easy to see why that can be very effective, uh, and has been for you. Because it's relevant, we were, as you said, we were talking about it earlier. The question I probably don't even don't ask as much as I should, but for the folks at home that can't see there's, there's a lot of toys in your background. so it sounds like you're more than just, uh, all gasoline and fire when it comes to business, but you take the time to have fun on the side as well.

Jonathan: 16:44

When the agency started, I used to fish every Friday. I unfortunately don't get to do that as much anymore, which is a good problem. We've been super busy, especially since we launched the other, a new business, the beginning of this year. I love fishing, you know, offshore fishing is, is my disconnect. You probably know, Russel, like, being in digital marketing, you're tied to your phone, or at least I am tied to my phone, emails going off. Checking calls coming in, you know, checking everything constantly. I'm, like, kind of a lunatic with it. I want to make sure everything is going right. To be able to go out in the middle of the ocean and totally disconnect, be away from it all, be so far out that nobody can get ahold of me. to me, that's, that's super spiritual and super peaceful. It's a really good recharge for me. Even on the days where we don't catch a bunch of fish, it's, it's fine because I still got to get away from the digital world. Don't get me wrong. I love the digital world. My other hobby is SIM racing. Real nerd stuff. My wife can't believe a 44 year old man is a SIM racing, but, uh, every Friday night I'm, you know, I have a league that I'm in and race with a bunch of other guys online. It's a lot of fun. I used to be big into cars and motorcycles and racing. I'm super competitive and I get to do it now, you know, in a SIM where I'm not going to get a speeding ticket and I'm not going to kill anybody so it's safe.

Russel: 17:50

I like that. I went through a brief motorcycle phase and that was kind of why I got out was my older sense of mortality just isn't making this enjoyable. I love that about our generation. Maybe because we did grow up with, with, uh, I guess you could say one of the first generations to really have games, but that we haven't lost that kid in us, uh, for, for a lot of folks. That's far more, far more something to embrace than otherwise. Glad you have those outlets. It made me think of, this is why I used to love a cruise, um, in the, in the early days, as you go back 10 or more years is before they put internet on cruises, like, it was just forced. Oh, my phone is going in the safe, um, for the next seven days because I'm not going to call anybody or get access. There's no real way to do it. Then they put internet on there and now that's not as, it's not as.

Jonathan: 18:32

Ruined it for everybody.

Russel: 18:34

Not as forced time away from your electronics. That's great. I know also too, you've got big goals for the business that were nowhere near the end, uh, in terms of how you're approaching this. Tell us about what the future of LFG Media Group looks like.

Jonathan: 18:48

Like I said in the very beginning, it started off where I would have been happy with just doubling my, my income, you know, having a couple of rehab clients selling some calls. That's all I foresaw in the future. Then as things started to grow, and then I, you know, like I said, I'd started this other business. My partner in that business is a big Alex Hermosi guy. He starts putting all this stuff in my head about, you know, getting the 10 million, you know, for, for, for a company in an odd word after that, and I'd never really thought of it in numbers like that. But now it's like, my goal is to 10, become a 10 million dollar company, you know, at minimum of that. Within five years is my goal. Is that possible? I'm not sure. My partner in LFG Media Group, who's a small partner in it, uh, he is very seasoned business guy. He, you know, worked with DHL, put them on the map. He was the president of sales in North and South America. He's built up big companies and sold them. That's what he does and knows. He's got my back on it and he knows all the stuff that, that I don't know, and he's, you know, keeps me out of trouble, let's put it that way. That's my goal is to, it's really, I want to hit the number just for, I guess, to say that I did it. It's just like one of those things, like with fishing, you know, I wanted to say I was able to catch swordfish or SIM racing, I wanted to win you know, a championship in that. It's just like one of those, it seems like for, for what we do in the digital marketing world, like a 10 million dollar company. It's a pretty cool start to get to. It's not really about the money though. It's really, for me, I'd want to be able to go to trade shows, like,,LeadsCon Lead Generation World, stuff like that. I want to be able to talk to people and be like, yeah, we have these assets. We sell these, like we're in these verticals where we're good at this. We're good at that. To be able to be recognizable by my peers that like, hey, like, LFG Media Group, man, they generate some really high quality stuff. They're not generating a bunch of crap like some of the other people out there. That's kind of, like, the vibe that I want to put out there with, with our company. I want to be known as the lead guys. I want to be known back from those Dish Network days. I want to be that guy that made those phones ring. I'm so far away from it, but I, but damn it, I'm gonna get there.

Russel: 20:36

I think in sometimes, know, in talking with folks that just say, you know, a number and growth and, and, you know, but sometimes it can be lost on just how important the quality and results are and that that's actually going to make it, the make or break of whether or not you achieve that amount of revenue. I'm not worried about it in your case because, because you have such a strong attention to results. Very fascinating, uh, conversation. You've done a lot in a short amount of time. The quote kept coming in my mind, if you ain't first, you're last. I don't know if you've seen, uh, uh, if you know the movie reference there.

Jonathan: 21:05

I love that movie. I used to say that all the time. Well, there's second place, there's third place, that don't make any sense.

Russel: 21:11

Yeah. Right? You seem to epitomize that, uh, uh, which I love about you. We can wrap things up here with one big final question for you. Are entrepreneurs born or are they made?

Jonathan: 21:20

I think they're made. I'll be brief on it, but I was lucky enough, my grandfather was a, was a businessman and I watched how, you know, he was in the machining business, uh, shot blast machine, buy shot blast machines that were used in world war two to, you know, galvanize steel wings and all that stuff. He bought them to use them in the industrial world, like, fix them up. I would go to work with him. Those were my first jobs and I would see how he treated his people. That was, like, a really good example for me. The guys that worked for him just absolutely loved him. They would have died for him. My uncle was his son and, you know, same thing. That's how he treated people. They grew out big businesses. I was able to see that at a young age. I'd never had any desire to be an entrepreneur back then, or didn't think that I would be. Then I got to go out in the workforce and see how I don't want to be treated and then I was able to bring it all together. Now I have my own agency. I know exactly how I want to treat people, not just the people that have worked with us, but our clients. I think they're made. I think it's, it's all about none of us. I don't think there's any self, self made millionaires. I hate that term. We all have mentors and people that teach us along the way, good and bad. As long as our eyes and ears are open to it all, we can, anybody can be an entrepreneur. Gotta have the stones too. They can be inserted.

Russel: 22:26

That'd be the part I could argue. Is that the born part is the, as you say, the stones, but perhaps, to your point, the stones can be made as well. Those are forged over time in the same way, or maybe that's even what is getting forged over time. If you had a mic to drop, I'd tell you to drop it. I don't want you to pick up your computer and throw it down. Very great story. If people want to know more about LFG Media Group, where can they go?

Jonathan: 22:46

Just go to our website, lfgmediagroup.com. You can go there. You could also, on our website is all of our social media accounts that you can click on. You can learn all about us. We have tons of video and content out there about who we are and what we do. Or you can call the number on the website to schedule an appointment with me and I'll be on the call and see how we can help.

Russel: 23:03

Perfect. There you go, folks. Wonderful conversation. Fast paced, just like you run your business, JD. It was a pleasure just to get to hear all the things that have forged you and your experience and your focus on results. I really appreciate you taking the time to share that with us today.

Jonathan: 23:16

Thanks for having me, Russel. It was a pleasure to be here with you and, uh, thanks again. I really enjoyed it.

23:24

We hope you've enjoyed this episode of An Agency Story podcast where we share real stories of marketing agency owners from around the world. Are you interested in being a guest on the show? Send an email to podcast@performancefaction.com. An Agency Story is brought to you by Performance Faction. Performance Faction offers services to help agency owners grow their business to 5 million dollars and more in revenue. To learn more, visit performancefaction.com.

Jonathan: 24:00

We were shooting content. I had this, this girl working for me. She's, like, 20, she doesn't work with us anymore, but she's like 23, 24 years old. I forget why we were using it, but I bought a Trapper Keeper. I forget what it was for. We were shooting a video, whatever. Long story short, I asked her, I said, hey, can you get the Trapper Keeper for me? She was like, what's a Trapper Keeper? I was like, you gotta be kidding me. It was just like, you know, I'm 44, she's 23, so it just showed, like, the different age groups. But, uh, it was cool because she brought a whole different aspect to the company that was, uh, you know, that I didn't know about. That whole younger generation. It just reminds me, like, no matter what, like, we have to keep, we have to stay up on things because, uh, what works now, isn't going to be the same in 20 years. I feel like we're going to be extinct, us marketers. Digital marketers are gonna replaced by robots.

Russel: 24:41

Might all get praised, replaced by robots in some, in every sector. Everything from the nineties is coming back now. I guess maybe Trapper Keepers haven't made the cut.

Jonathan: 24:49

Trapper Keepers are great. I don't know why you wouldn't want one of those, ones with like BMX bikes on them, or you get them like, you know, you get all kinds of graphics on them, really tell people who you are.

Russel: 24:57

I don't know what, why is that not a thing kids need? I guess maybe they just don't write as much. That might be part of the problem. Pretty much all, even in, I don't know if it's everywhere, but even in high school and especially in college now, they just expect kids have laptops.

Jonathan: 25:09

My kids in kindergarten, they gave him a laptop. Couldn't believe it. Blew my wife's mind. She was like, why does a five year old need a laptop? He's in this, like, magnet school that he, he got, there was a lottery that he got picked for. We're really lucky. But they, like, the stuff that they have these kids doing now in kindergarten. I remember taking naps in kindergarten. They don't that anymore.