Fighting for Connection - Creating a Secure Marriage
Want a close connected and secure relationship? Maybe you feel like something's not quite right in your relationship, even though there are a lot of good things. You and your partner love each other, but there are moments that hurt. It's normal for all relationships to experience conflict or worry. The difference between the couples that remain close and the couples that drift apart is their ability to work through conflict and moments of worry and insecurity within the relationship.
Listen in to discover new ways to stay close and connected even through the toughest moments life throws at you.. Learn how to deal with your patterns of conflict and make your connection stronger. Simply listen, learn, make changes, and see positive transformations in your relationship.
Brett Nikula is an LMFT and Relationship coach that works with couples that want to stay together, that really care about each other, learn to communicate in a way that reduces the pain in the relationship and increases the connection.
Fighting for Connection - Creating a Secure Marriage
Understanding Each Other With Tommy and Brenda Geary
Today I enjoy a conversation with Tommy and Brenda Geary who run Tommy G Coaching and The Durable Dad Podcast. We discuss how to communicate in a clear way in order to stay close and connected in the face of life challenges and even working together.
To find more of Tommy and Brenda's work check out
https://www.tommygcoaching.com/
and Follow them on instagram at
https://www.instagram.com/tommygcoaching
Episode number 68. Hello and welcome to the Fighting for Connection podcast. I'm Brett Nicola, a husband, father and fun lover. Listen in as I share stories, tips and inspiration that will move you toward the connection that you want in your relationship. Alright, welcome back to the Fighting for Connection podcast. Today I have on with me another fellow LC, essar, life coach, school coach and his wife Brenda. Welcome on to the podcast. Thank you, brett. What's up, brett?
Speaker 2:Thanks for having us and it's Tommy.
Speaker 1:So Tommy and Brenda, Gary, what's that? Gary Like gear.
Speaker 3:Like the gear in the car yeah.
Speaker 1:I love it. So Tommy and I had a conversation a couple weeks back now and we talked about all kinds of amazing things that we're going to continue to talk about today. At the end he's like, hey, what do you think about Brenda coming on? And I was like, hey, brenda coming on, that'd be amazing. And I think that that was something that I always am a fan of.
Speaker 1:I'm always pushing for couples to come on to this podcast and talk about all things couples, because, like I was sharing with you guys before we started recording, I think there's still some taboos around relationships, around marriage, especially. So if we can talk about, like, all the amazing, you know, things that our spouse is doing for us, but it seems difficult to talk about some of the challenges that come up within relationships and it still seems like we're pretty guarded about that. But one of the things that I am really passionate about on this podcast, and something that I've done myself, is to highlight even, you know, marriage. Therapist experiences challenges in relationships and I think everybody experiences challenges in relationships, and the more we can kind of take the cover off of those things and talk about them, I think, the more we can support each other in relationships and it's really me just championing, championing the relationship, yeah, yeah and really want people to figure out how to navigate through these challenges and stay together. So I love that you guys are willing to come on and do this.
Speaker 3:I didn't know it was Tommy's idea. So glad to be here.
Speaker 1:I guess I don't even know either. I feel like it was something right at the end where we were talking about working together and I think we were just talking about.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you knew that Brenda and I owned the business together and we kind of got into talking about what that's been like in our relationship. And Tommy G Coaching the Durable Dad podcast is our second business that we've run together. And yeah, just when you talk about challenges and I think those are, there's been a lot of challenges in our life, business, wise, personal lies and I don't know. So I guess sometimes we don't even know them as challenges. They're just like opportunities and yeah, and I think it's brought us closer together and we have a pretty tight relationship and you know we set it before recording. It's not happily ever after. We're not happy all the time and we do a good job, I think, of repairing those times when there is a dispute, or yeah.
Speaker 1:That's what it's all about. I totally agree that. You know, the challenges aren't the things that we're trying to avoid in the relationship. We're trying to get really good at repairing, and the more efficient and skilled we can get at repairing our relationship, the longer it's going to last and the closer it's going to be. So I love that yeah, I know yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean just to dive right in from me. I don't think I knew any of that. Like well, we've been married 13 years. I probably figured that out, like eight years ago that you got to work on repair and that when there isn't, that when there is fight, when there is conflict, that to repair easily, you got to stick around for the conversation and I think for me that was hard. I think I would shut down, I would be silent and yeah.
Speaker 1:With drawers you're not, I'm the same way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so many dudes are, and I think it's because, like you know, brenda would be like what are you thinking? And I don't know what I'm thinking right now, and we actually aren't aware of some of those subconscious thoughts, not aware of our emotions, and then we just shut down. And even the dudes that I work with sometimes it takes a while to be able, like we'll coach and we'll understand what thoughts are going on in the middle of an argument and what emotions are happening, but then to be able to communicate those and say, well, I'm whatever the emotion is, that that's like the next level, I think. So maybe I was aware that I had to start talking eight years or seven years ago, whatever, and then it took me a year to actually talk.
Speaker 3:Yeah, to find the language. Yeah, yeah, I think I forgot that you used to shut down, and I mean you do every now and then. But I think one of the biggest learnings for me like I just was never good about letting things go unsaid, like if something was off, we needed to talk about it in my book. But what I needed to learn was that, well, coaching actually taught me this that I had to take the blame out of it. And like I used to say things like when you do this, I feel, or when you say that it makes me feel da-da-da, and it was a lot of pointing fingers. And then coaching taught me that, oh, I'm actually creating my own feelings, and so now we I mean if someone heard us argue, they would laugh, but it's very much like deep breaths and like when you say that I'm telling myself that da-da-da-da-da-da-da, and it's like we take the ownership of how we feel and that helps a lot.
Speaker 1:I think it's helping them, helping our spouse, see what's happening within us in those moments. And yeah, it's not blaming them, but I love how that is. And it's funny, like I think people you're right they kind of be like, wow, that sounds like scripted or it doesn't sound real. But what often I tell people is like, hey, if we script something and we have better results and we have, you know, higher levels of repair and better connection and we just we're moving out of, like our subconscious emotional brain and into more like a regulated and a conscious brain, I think that's an amazing skill, an amazing thing to do.
Speaker 1:So I, with my clients, and I was saying, okay, how are we going to show up in conflict? And we do kind of the same things. It's like, okay, this is what we're gonna say and this is how we're gonna say it. And then they go home and do it and they come back and they say it sounds scripted, it sounds, you know, whatever. And what I find is that the more you do it, it probably doesn't even feel like that for you guys. Now. It just is like the way that you guys manage conflict.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's still uncomfortable sometimes and I had a course that I ran called Stop Losing your Temper and there was actually like I actually gave scripts. I'm feeling frustrated because I'm telling myself that you don't appreciate all the work that I'm doing, instead of being like you don't appreciate the work I'm doing. I'm feeling angry because I'm telling myself this like Brenda was saying it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it does. It sounds scripted, but actually after, like you said, brett, after you do it, it doesn't. Even. Because I think it took a long time, after learning about coaching and the thinking cycle and cognitive behavioral therapy to for it to dawn on me like I genuinely am creating my emotions. He genuinely is not creating this for me, and so then, when that finally sunk in that realization, it made our conflicts, I think, a lot. I think repair comes faster, yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's. And when you said that and you said like, it finally sunk in, I almost think that it finally separated. Because when we're in a super tight relationship, you know you talk about codependency and relationships like oh, if my wife's happy, then I'm happy, if she's angry, then I'm upset. I'm upset and being able like I do, like there is an energetic connection in your house and that is there. But the power is to be able to separate your partner's energy from your energy and that's I think that's what Brenda's saying like owning your emotions, that emotional maturity, to be like these are my emotions, I'm gonna hold them. If I'm choosing to be, I'm choosing to be this way, it's not the other person's fault. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think that separation doesn't lead us to living in silos, like I think you know that's what a lot of people are like well, if I'm responsible for my emotions and they don't have any impact on them, then we're somehow gonna like just be these independent people living in the same house.
Speaker 1:But what I find is like when you take on that responsibility of your own emotions and you find language for what's actually happening inside which I think is kind of what you're talking about, brenda like all of a sudden you believe the language that you were communicating. It was like I am creating these emotions and now you can communicate that to Tommy and what that does is it helps him see what's happening for you, but it also puts you in a position where now you're not dependent on him taking care of you, so now you can actually go and take care of him. And I think, like that I talk about it all the time on the podcast that that is the magic of relationships is not we don't self-regulate so that we don't need each other, but we self-regulate so that we can be there for each other.
Speaker 3:And yeah, a visual that I get sometimes when cause a lot of guys struggle with that and feel like, well, I'm not gonna be. Well, just the other day, our daughter now was just having a rough morning. You were like whole humming around the house and it's just like borderline, like okay, like you need to have a little you know whatever. So we were talking about that and I think that's what guys interpreted as is like if my wife is sad, I'm not gonna be thrilled, but I think of it as like if a friend, if a good friend, lost their parent, you aren't gonna be a sobbing mess, like you will be able to empathize with them better when you're grounded and holding space for them, rather than like a disaster in there, you know.
Speaker 1:I know exactly what you're saying. There. We're like if someone is needing, you know, some solace or some care, you need to stay in a place where you're able to care for them. You can't be like competing for care with them, like oh, I missed your mom so much. She like that's not actually helpful where you're needing them to kind of console and care for you and to be able to kind of stay in that spot of holding space for their emotions and being not cold and callous but responsive to it, and it's a skill.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, it's very, I don't know. Just, I'm picturing now just like some kind of like Tai Chi ninja, being able to take on someone else's energy and take that on and not hold it, just like let it be there and be able to, yeah, hold it for them, take it, and then like, yeah, I don't know, show up as yourself in that storm.
Speaker 1:It's so good, because a lot of couples struggle with this.
Speaker 1:Like if I'm having a good day at work, I get home and my wife's having a bad day, then like, especially in the past, it was like all right, the whole ship's going down together, right, we're all gonna have just a terrible evening and I'm gonna be upset with her because she's having a bad day and she should have been in a good mood, because I was in a good mood and why she taken my mood down and so I'm kind of putting the blame on her.
Speaker 1:And it was like weird To be able to come home, be in a good mood, see that your wife is not in a good mood, and to be able to just like, totally be there for it, recognize like we all have moods and we all have the days that aren't going well, and just to, yeah, like we're talking about, hold space for it, allow it to be there, take it on, don't just like that's your problem, but to be like, oh, yeah, I can see that you're having a tough day and how can I support it? Maybe you can even jump in and support in the ways that you know are supportive, but you don't need to match that energy and then put the blame on them for taking it, and the thing with dudes.
Speaker 2:So the example you're saying is you're in a good mood, you're feeling like you had a productive day. You show up. Your wife didn't have that same kind of experience. She's frustrated or stressed, like dudes want to fix that emotion really quickly and they want to tell her how it's okay and how can I help, like let's get this thing done right away and tell her all the reasons that she should be feeling good and that also isn't helpful, right, so we're not taking on her sadness and stress, but now we're trying to change the other person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we feel better.
Speaker 2:That's what's underneath. That. That's the next part of that. Right, we think that, oh, we're being helpful, we're being nice, because we're trying to make you feel better. But the reason that we're doing that is because we want to feel better and to kind of go back. What I think happens at that first level you walk in the door and I'm not saying you, any dude walks in the door and his wife's not having a great experience. The reason we want to fix, I think, is because we're not comfortable with whatever emotion she's having, 100%. So, if and that's when it comes to doing the work yourself, yeah, and I think it's with kids too if your kid's flipping out and having a tantrum and your pattern is to yell at them and shut them down and tell them to calm down, it's because you're not comfortable with your own anger and you haven't managed your own anger. But when you do, then you are able to create more calm and more patience when other people are dysregulated and other people are triggered or whatever.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it goes. I think girls do it too. I mean, I think just two days ago you were buying tickets for going on a family trip and you bought tickets plane tickets for the wrong day. And he realized it and was like first words and in right, I almost said we'll just call them and I like had suggestions on the tip of my tongue ready to fix, and then I realized what I was about to do.
Speaker 2:And you were just like yeah. And you were just like, oh, bummer, dang it. I can't believe you did that Like that sucks.
Speaker 3:I didn't say I can't believe you did that. What an idiot. No, I didn't say that.
Speaker 2:It wasn't a can't believe. You did that, idiot, I think everybody.
Speaker 3:I think everyone wants to fix it's the advice trap when people aren't really there. Yeah, advice.
Speaker 1:So yeah, no, I think that's good and this is how this conversation is gonna go. We could just talk all day, but I do think we kind of glossed over who you guys are and what you guys are all about. So I wanna kind of go back to just quickly like what your guys' story is as a couple and kind of bring me through. You said a couple of businesses and now we have the durable dads and the work that you're doing there. That's your podcast. I wanna hear kind of all about that. And Brenda, you're involved with Tommy's business, your guys' business together. So I'd love to just hear your guys' story in as concise of a way as you possibly can as concise of a way yeah, I think
Speaker 2:well, I think that our relationship could probably be summed up by, I don't want to say taking risks, but like doing different things. I mean, like I said, I don't want to talk in too many generalities, but basically Brenda's from Ohio, I'm from Chicago. We met in Colorado at both of our times in our life where we just weren't exactly sure what the rest of our career was going to be, and when we found each other. I think that we try I don't know. We tried a lot of things out and kind of grew together.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we lived in Colorado for 15 years before we moved. Well, that's a challenge we can get into, if you want. Before we moved back to Ohio, that was a long 10-year discussion if we were going to come back to the Midwest, be closer to family. But yeah, we both worked in the ski industry and I started a little creative agency about gosh eight years ago now, and then Tommy was able to quit his corporate job and come onto that and so we did work together in that business and knew that we wanted that it wasn't what we wanted to do forever and got into life coaching and I got certified first and then, oh, you're certified too. Yeah, not through LCS, but a different program, but that's how I found LCS.
Speaker 3:And then just yeah, what do you itch in to say?
Speaker 2:I got nothing. In my head is like oh man, there's so many different things and we can't tell them all right now.
Speaker 3:But lost over is we found out about eight years ago that we couldn't have kids without surgery or intervention. We didn't want to do IVF or any of that stuff and knew we were going to adopt. But before we did that we both quit our jobs and went to Central America for a few months and yeah, I mean it out there wasn't that. My family in Ohio was like what the heck are you doing? But out there people didn't have stuff all the time.
Speaker 2:That was a big step for us. It was scary, it was a lot of conversations and I wasn't sure about stuff, you weren't sure about stuff and you know we made it happen and navigated that and that was really cool. I do think that. Well, do you have anything else?
Speaker 3:Well, I was just going to say a lot of couples we found out later really struggled with that, with not being able to have kids. That wasn't a struggle for us so much.
Speaker 2:I think the harder part for us was later choosing to have kids because life was so wonderful and fun and easy and we were 35 before we finally took the leap and we lived in this place in Colorado where our back door was our playground, just like we could strap on our split boards and skin up the mountain and snowboard down and backpacking, and our morning routines were like an hour and a half long and so that was hard to.
Speaker 3:I think we were, I think I was probably there a little sooner than you were, and it was just discussions about are we really going to? That was a challenge as much so.
Speaker 1:I was just going to jump in that my morning routine is an hour and a half long, but I don't picture it quite the same as yours Trying to wrangle seven kids you know off to school breakfast. You have seven, we have six, seven on the way I count already.
Speaker 3:Congratulations.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's rare yeah we had three girls in a row and we're all signs are pointing to our fourth boy in January, so that's cool, yeah.
Speaker 3:Nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, our morning routines are not an hour and a half anymore. That's why we were laughing like pre adopting yeah, that's what it looked like. And then that changes quickly. Kids change.
Speaker 3:That's the background I'd say.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so how did you get into the current business now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we. So I left my corporate job because Brenda's creative agency was able to support our family and we. When I started working there, brenda was really running the show. She was the contact for all of our clients and she she hadn't taken a vacation in five years or something like that, and she would have a week of slowness and be able to get out and enjoy like some chill time. But if we were planning a trip three months out, she didn't know if she had. The was able to schedule her Great.
Speaker 3:I didn't set it up well.
Speaker 2:Well, and so it was just really demanding on her. And so there are two kind of things. One was a lifestyle thing that, like I started kind of being more of the dad parent role. If our, if our daughter now would get sick, I was the one picking her up. I had a little more flexibility and it worked. And it also kind of.
Speaker 3:I love that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I wanted to be that role. I think, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:That eight and so eight at Brenda, and so that was one of the things that we wanted a little more control of our schedule and in the creative world when you're working for clients, that's just not how it was and then and we didn't want to build out employees. Anyway, the other part of it was that we wanted to help more, we wanted to serve or whatever, and the coaching had brought a lot to both of our lives. Brenda had a coach first, I had a coach after that and I don't know. We saw the power in being able to harness, like yourself and your brain and your body and being able to. You know the power of that in the world and I think and before.
Speaker 3:and so I got certified as a coach out of just personal development to help me lead better at the business. And then, tommy you, before you quit your corporate job, you became a yoga and meditation instructor and I think that was kind of walking the path towards where he is yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you adopted. Now at what point.
Speaker 3:Before you became certified in that. So we now five now.
Speaker 2:So we adopted her when she was a baby, so yeah, so yeah, she was under water, she was maybe one. When I went through the yoga and meditation training, I thought about going into leadership development in the corporate world because I was kind of just digging the teaching vibe and everything like that and and then we're, I don't know. We were kind of like let's do it ourselves.
Speaker 3:We were pumped about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can remember sitting at the coffee shop.
Speaker 3:I did too yeah.
Speaker 2:Loaded Joe's.
Speaker 3:Loaded Joe's and Ava.
Speaker 1:And you guys talk about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and just sitting there and looking at the LCS certification and I looked at let's see other one, I see ICP. No, there's another training that I was looking at. But we just we were like, all right, we're doing it, it starts in March. And, yeah, we sat at that table and just decided it and put the credit card down and we're going to go with that. So you started March of what year? 2020, right in the pandemic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, so I was. I was the following year then, because I started March of 2021. Nice, nice, yeah.
Speaker 3:Great program.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they were, they were dialed. It was a great program, so I guess that's how we got here to the drill Tommy.
Speaker 1:G.
Speaker 2:Coaching Tommy G Coaching.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so tell me about that. You guys are working now. That's both of your guys is full-time gig. Yep, how's that going? Everyone wants to know what it's like to work with your spouse. It's awesome.
Speaker 3:I know. Before this I was like I know they want to hear, they don't want to hear that, but it really is.
Speaker 1:I think people do want to hear that, and why is it Well?
Speaker 3:when working at the corporate at my previous corporate job. I don't think it was a revelation coming out of that and not having to Like Tommy when he came into the company. He's just smart, capable, level-headed, learns quick and it just was easy. And I know that we got to be able to thrive in any environment but it was just easier to thrive working together. I think we both care about the business so much. I think that goes a long way when you're working with other people, so their level of commitment to the business and I mean of course we have days where it's just like you want to blow your head off, but but it's by far our favorite job we've ever had.
Speaker 1:And how do you navigate through those, Like in those moments we talked about it a little bit. This is kind of going full circle now, but on those days where it is challenging, what do you guys do to kind of keep moving forward and keep working together?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think one thing, whether it's in our business or it's in our personal life, we will do this check-in process with each other and one of us is usually feeling some resistance to it, but the other person will say, let's check in and we haven't decided this. But I don't think either one of us has ever said no. We just say, okay, we'll do it because we know it helps and it's just a quick, and I'll just say it because I think it's awesome in any relationship and I teach it to a lot of my guys and we did a whole podcast on it. But you it's three parts.
Speaker 2:You look around the room, you name three things that are in your physical presence, kind of opens you up so you don't have that narrow view anymore. And then you name three things that you feel physically in your body and hot, cold, the clothes on your skin and then you say three emotions that you're feeling. And I think that three emotions is cool, because that's how emotions work they're moving, they're flexible. It's crazy when you say I'm stressed and then you also say, but I'm optimistic, and so we do that one person.
Speaker 3:And I'll mention, not to cut you off. I didn't know if you were going to move on, but I think, as the recipient listening to someone, listening to you check in almost every time he says his emotions, I'm a little surprised and then I'm a little more empathetic and it just connects you, I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good point One person speaking, the other person is receiving, being open to it, noticing the judgments that they create in their head, and it's really like it's connecting with each other. And then the other person does it, so that that usually starts the repair. Doesn't always like make us like leave with big hugs or anything like that, but it starts a real conversation, it cuts through the blame and really quickly.
Speaker 3:And we're going to say you're going to say two things. We have the check in process, I think, and when things are, I mean we have disagreements Tommy's usually better at taking risks than I'm usually like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, not ready, and so we're kind of like go head to head at certain points and we just have to, and I think that slows us down a lot actually. But we just we kind of, if we need to, we take a breather, take a walk. You know Tommy's coaching a lot, so that gives us space. That is forced, forced space from each other.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean Brenda works fast, she's smart, and when we're creating something like the podcast like if you go and listen to the Durable Dad podcast, you hear Tommy to get to that point, our creative process of the outline and the concept and the creative feedback and the direction, brenda's like boom, that's her thing. And I'm not that that I can coach. I'm a coach and I'm learning how to be. You know that that guy on camera. You talked about it on your last podcast, about being a storyteller and about, like, trying to tell a concise story and get the message across in a compelling way. And Brenda can do that really well and it's like she's already there but I'm not there yet and I can get frustrated, I can get like whoa is me and that's probably something that slows us down.
Speaker 3:We had a meeting, I think, just last week that I have to sandwich my feedback better with positive.
Speaker 1:Sometimes we have 20 minutes so I'm like boom, boom running through it and then I forget it's daunting on the receiving end and I think I think really what you're highlighting there is, you know, as these dads on the other end, or men in general, we do want our spouse or partner to generally be happy with us, to generally see us in a positive light, and sometimes we get a little bit sensitive when we're hearing the message that our partner isn't happy with us or doesn't like what we're doing. And I think oftentimes that's what I see a lot with wives that I work with is they underestimate the power of their messaging and the power of what they're sharing with their husband.
Speaker 3:Totally, and I think, well, don't you already know that? Like I really need to say that? And it's like yeah, you do, I need to hear it, and so why would he yeah?
Speaker 1:Sorry, yeah, there's. No, there's a couple of thoughts there. One little quick thing there's a comic strip that I have it stuck in my mind. I should go find it someday. But it's like a husband and wife in front of their pastor and the husband is, or the wife is, sharing with the pastor that you know. He just doesn't say I love you anymore I'm not sure if he loves me and the husband responds I told her I loved her on our wedding day and I'll let her know when it changes. And I love that because it's that idea exactly, that he knows that he loves her, right. But in a human relationship we're not always sure that the other person cares about us, and that's why I think we have to get so good at reassuring each other when conflict comes up, when issues arise, that we do care about each other, we do love each other, and if we can establish that, then I think we can stay on the same team, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And our brains start to trick ourselves and think like, oh, he's got a problem with me. This is you know, and so it does and needs to be reassured.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And then the second thing that this came up. This was a thought that came up a while back. When you're talking about that check-in process and communicating your emotions that are within you what Kelsey and I just had this experience the other day it was a couple weeks ago now She'll get kind of like stressed around time.
Speaker 1:I'm kind of like time is like abstract and get there. When we get there and she's like no, we're going to get there, you know, if it's we're supposed to be there at noon. 11.50 is 10 minutes late, you know. And so when she gets into that moment she's really good at getting tasks done and usually I'll like chase around the house and try to give her hugs and, you know, trap her in the closet and things like that. She can't stand it. She's like you only do this when, like, I'm stressed out and and and finally I just told her like you know what, like that is my anxiety coming out when I see her stressed out, like I feel like I'm doing something wrong or like she's not really happy and and it's just my natural way of like trying to check in, kind of like I don't know, it's kind of puppy dog year, whatever, just like like well that anxious attachment yeah totally yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, everyone does that. You looked at me Do. I do that.
Speaker 3:No, but I can. I can picture it so clearly that I'm like does Tommy do that? Cause I can. It's like yeah, you're, you're, you get extra playful, or something like that, because the other person is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's it's caused like these little issues at times because like she'll kind of like really buck against that, like she's like get out of here, I gotta get these things done Right, and then I'll get all offended or sensitive.
Speaker 1:And that was kind of our thing for a while is we'd have like these little tiffs in these moments and she couldn't really understand why I wouldn't just let her get ready and I didn't really have the language to kind of express that.
Speaker 1:You know what, when you kind of get like that, like we're we're going to get to work face on, like something happens within me and it was anxiety. And what happened is she was like you know, I've never really understood it as anxiety, like I thought you're just trying to prevent me from getting my stuff done, but it gave her kind of an ability to see what was happening in me and it doesn't give me permission to do that. I think it actually helped me to recognize what that was all about too. And yeah, for some time we've been able to get through those moments without getting frustrated with each other. But now that was the first time we've actually had a conversation like you know what, when I do, that's because I feel anxious in our relationship and I think we're going to have different ways of solving it going forward.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, that's so. That's such a good example of being surprised and it's surprising.
Speaker 3:On the receipt. It was probably surprising for Kelsey to be like, oh, he's feeling anxious. But it's also surprising for me sometimes, when I'm checking in, to be like, oh, that's there.
Speaker 1:That was my experience. I didn't know ahead of time why I was playing with her essentially, but it was like a puppy dog kind of play. It was like look at me, can you tell me? I'm OK.
Speaker 2:Scratch my pack and I think what's good there? And I think probably in our creative process, we keep having the same fight, we keep having the same argument why and there's a time to maybe go off your separate ways to explore what the heck's going on inside of you.
Speaker 1:And yeah, I love that, because that's really the work that I do here is to help people understand why they're getting into the same pattern of conflict and what we find. 100% of the time it's because you are having an emotional experience in that conflict and what you're trying to do is you're trying to get the other person to show up in a way to take care of that emotion, and that's where we get stuck right. So when you, like you're talking about Tommy, kind of step away and kind of focus on yourself rather than the other person. What comes out of that is language. What comes out of that is different solutions. What comes out of that is ways to understand even your partner and their experience in it. So I think it's super valuable to kind of notice that, become aware of it and then try different ways of solving it which don't include your partner.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so true. I heard this interview with Boyd Vardy and Tim Ferriss and I remember he was out in this tree for 60 days or something and he cracked his head so hard and his anger lasted like five seconds, simply because no one was there to absorb it. And so it just hit me, because every time I notice I want Tommy to know how mad I am, and it's so freeing to think like, okay, if he weren't here right now, if he were just not here at all, how would I handle this? And not trying to drag him down with me?
Speaker 1:It's interesting because I notice that myself quite a bit and I see it with a lot of other people. We want desperately other people to experience our same emotions, and when we're mad, we want other people to be mad, and when we're hurt. We want other people to be hurt, but it is interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you guys are giving me a revelation right now because I'm working. I'm working with right now. He's going through some marriage stuff and he wants his wife to feel the emotional pain that he feels and he totally realizes it. In a coaching session we can talk about it and he sees it. But in the game, when he's at home and the kids are around and life is happening, he has a really hard time not trying and it comes out as anger, it comes out as rage to make someone else feel that emotion. So I don't know. It's interesting, it is an interesting thing.
Speaker 3:It is, and we've been doing this little app with Nell lately. What's it?
Speaker 1:called how we feel.
Speaker 3:How we feel and anyway, and we all check in on it, and so when it's all different colors, nell loves it because it looks like rainbow, but it's really cool for her to see that she's feeling this and neither of us are feeling that, and that's fine. It's a lesson for all of us. I think, yeah, that is.
Speaker 2:So we want to fix other people's emotions and we also want them to feel our emotions.
Speaker 1:That's exactly it, and the more we can see that, the more we can see where we get stuck in that process. I think that when things are working well, we do those things. We are able to be there for someone else's emotions and, in a way, regulate them, and other people are able to be there for our emotions and, in a way, regulate us. But when it gets stuck, the only place that we can really go in and control that and solve for it is with our levers, ourself, and I think that's what we have to see. I think the world is amazing when we can be in tune and responsive and care for each other and help each other and have people in our life that are there for us and our emotions. It's just when it's not happening, the solution isn't always to go and wiggle your finger at someone and say naughty, naughty. The solution is to figure out okay, and what can I do to create more of this in my life, and I think that that can really open up some avenues for change and success.
Speaker 2:And I think yeah, I just think that in a marriage sometimes I find this for guys and it's probably true for girls also that the place for a guide event and try to figure out that stuff is his wife, and when your problem is in that relationship and you don't have anyone to talk about it with, I think that's something that guys have a hard time with and we talked about, I think, before. We recorded that this issues in marriage doesn't get talked a lot about, and I mean it bums me out how many dudes I start coaching that are at this point in their marriage where, like, like it's gotten to this point, like I saw it coming, I knew we were off, I knew I wasn't showing up the way I wanted to and Nobody else knows about it.
Speaker 3:Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1:They've told no one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, from the outside everything looks good and if they go to talk to their buddies about it, their buddies just commiserate with them and like, yeah, man, wife's are doing that all the time and you know it's it's. There's not a person there to be like own your own, like this, that like you can't change her. You can't like what we're talking about being able to like look at yourself and what your patterns that you're bringing and I Just think that's another Tool that you can bring in is having some place to go, whether it's a men's group coach, a therapist. I mean couples therapy is like I Don't know. I Suggested to most of my clients, if they're not already in it, having like their own space and a couple's and yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and and I think I think you highlight something that's worth highlighting again, tommy that Husbands do go to their wives to kind of Vent and discuss ideas. And I've heard it from a lot of my clients and one of the things that Kelsey and I really liked doing is going for a walk and I I think I tend to fool myself to believe that she enjoys it, but what I find is, as I'm moving, for some reason, that's when my brain works and and my mouth will be going a million miles a minute on that whole walk and I'll just be like just Processing out loud and she's just amazing at huffing along beside me and Listening and I appreciate it so much. Yeah, I told her like I like it's not the walk, it's just like being able to let my brain kind of like dump and you're, and she's there.
Speaker 3:Especially when you're coaching and helping people all day. I was just saying that to Tommy last night. Like you need to make sure you have that. You know because you're you're usually not in that space. Your profession doesn't allow you to be so we.
Speaker 2:I'm in this men's workout group and I know we're probably gonna.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we got four minutes. I'm watching it.
Speaker 2:All right. Yeah, what you said about walking and talking and, and for dudes there's even this walking next to each other, when you don't have to make eye contact, there's like, and I think that's something that eventually you want to be able to be seen and have that eye contact. But yeah, I'm in this workout group and we rock. Have you ever heard of rocking?
Speaker 2:It's like where you yeah so we're rocking we usually rock next to each other and we have some pretty solid conversations. And I'll say to some of the guys like, whether it's a workout or not, you can do that by yourself, and maybe you look a little crazy walking down the street talking to yourself, but you can and I'll do it, I'll do it in my car and just like that that, getting that stuff out of your head and into space, it's yeah, it's helpful.
Speaker 1:I've done it on my voice notes before. I'm talking to my voice notes and just kind of figuring out what I'm trying to say or what I'm thinking. That's been helpful. Just talk, you're in your car, you're alone, you're letting some stuff out, and then you just listen to it and it's interesting just to kind of have that come back. Sometimes I just delete.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. I know our daughter's learning how to read right now and I'm like gosh she if she ever found my thought dumb journals all over. I just start being more responsible with where I leave them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I know we have this hard deadline and and I said, as we're getting going, that I set up these podcasts in a way because I think there's so many areas that we can go. I'd love to have you guys on in the future because I just think that there's a whole bunch of, like, little pockets even within this conversation. That could go on in a lot of different directions and for quite some time. But I do want just to point the listeners to ways that they can get more of you guys, more of your work, and why don't you share with them? I know you got a podcast, you got a website. What do you do? How can people work with you? All the good things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so go to the durable dad comm. You'll find everything. So the podcast is an awesome place to start to get to know me a little bit more and what I coach, how I coach and I Coach one-on-one and that's pretty filled up. But you know the it spots open up here and there and then I also do courses. So we run and host courses, small courses like that stop losing your temper. Get organized for dads and, yeah, different ways to work with me. The durable dad comm you can figure it all out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, perfect, I will have all that in the show notes and and we'll be in touch. Follow them. You guys are on social media.
Speaker 2:Yep, go to the durable dad comm. You'll find us Instagram, linkedin. All that good stuff, good stuff, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much for coming on. Thanks, brenda, for participating. Your insight is so valuable. Thanks, tommy, for making this work and and I look forward to sharing this with Everyone.
Speaker 3:Thank you, Brett.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Thanks, Brett.
Speaker 1:It was awesome. This has been the fighting for connection podcast. If you've enjoyed this podcast and want more content like this, check out my connected couples campus, which can be found on my website, wwwpivotalapproachcom, and become the difference you need in your relationship.
