Can a high-tech scale really measure your self-worth? Join us on this episode of the Joosi Sex Podcast as Kim and I, your host Alisa, have a raw and heartfelt discussion on diet culture. We dig deep into the ingrained societal beliefs that equate thinness with health and goodness, revealing the relentless pressure to shrink our bodies to fit these arbitrary ideals. Reflecting on past dieting fads like the ultra low-fat craze of the 90s, we reveal how these ever-changing trends contribute to a toxic cycle of shame and confusion.
Hear our honest takes on the mental and emotional toll these diets have had on us, from the highs of calorie counting to the despair of watching our weight yo-yo despite all efforts. We share our personal battles with diet culture, recounting how strict diet rules and the irrational hope of fitting into old clothes have fed into feelings of failure and disordered eating. Through our stories, we underscore the importance of rejecting shame and acknowledging that the struggle with body image is a shared human experience.
Finally, we confront the dangers of diet pills and extreme workout regimens. Hear about an addiction to Oxy Elite during college and the chilling parallels between dieting and substance addiction. Kim and I emphasize the need for self-compassion in this ongoing journey and advocate for healthier, guilt-free approaches to food and wellness. Tune in for an episode that promises to resonate deeply, offering both insight and solidarity in the quest to break free from toxic ideologies around dieting and body image.
Can a high-tech scale really measure your self-worth? Join us on this episode of the Joosi Sex Podcast as Kim and I, your host Alisa, have a raw and heartfelt discussion on diet culture. We dig deep into the ingrained societal beliefs that equate thinness with health and goodness, revealing the relentless pressure to shrink our bodies to fit these arbitrary ideals. Reflecting on past dieting fads like the ultra low-fat craze of the 90s, we reveal how these ever-changing trends contribute to a toxic cycle of shame and confusion.
Hear our honest takes on the mental and emotional toll these diets have had on us, from the highs of calorie counting to the despair of watching our weight yo-yo despite all efforts. We share our personal battles with diet culture, recounting how strict diet rules and the irrational hope of fitting into old clothes have fed into feelings of failure and disordered eating. Through our stories, we underscore the importance of rejecting shame and acknowledging that the struggle with body image is a shared human experience.
Finally, we confront the dangers of diet pills and extreme workout regimens. Hear about an addiction to Oxy Elite during college and the chilling parallels between dieting and substance addiction. Kim and I emphasize the need for self-compassion in this ongoing journey and advocate for healthier, guilt-free approaches to food and wellness. Tune in for an episode that promises to resonate deeply, offering both insight and solidarity in the quest to break free from toxic ideologies around dieting and body image.
My partner right now is trying to do a healthy lifestyle and lose some weight and reach some goals of his, and he bought this fancy ass like $500 scale which I was super nervous about bringing it in, but I was like, okay, I'm going to like be aware of my past and not weigh myself every day, weigh myself periodically. So I wanted to test myself, and so I, I weighed myself in the morning and then I pooped. Like this was it within a 10 minute period? Weighed myself, pooped, weighed myself again and I gained weight. I never I wind down. I'm like, what the fuck like, how does that happen? I did not eat anything at all this morning, but I pooped and I gained weight.
Speaker 2:So that that that is bullshit welcome to the juicy sex podcast, where my friends and I have raw, unf, unfiltered and hilarious conversations about all things sex. I'm Alisa Eddie, the founder and CEO of Juicy Sexual Wellness, where we try the toys and help you find the right one for you. Now on to the podcast. All right, welcome. We are talking about sex and diet culture today, and I have my very special guest, kim, here. Say hello, hello everyone. We are going to be discussing some difficult things, so there's a little bit of a content warning. We're having a candid discussion about dieting and eating disorders, disordered eating and body image, and you need to proceed with caution if this is a triggering subject for you, and just be aware of that. All right, my loves. First of all, how about that orange wine? It was actually pretty good.
Speaker 1:It was good. It was way better than mine. I liked it. Yeah, it was nice and tart, but not like overwhelming. I was scared it was going to be too orange peely. Oh yeah, yeah, but it wasn't, it was very orange inside.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So we went to a little wine bar right before we came here and we had some orange wine, which it doesn't actually have oranges in it. It's a different process of how they use the white grapes.
Speaker 1:Oh, I didn't realize.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they like keep the peels on and whatever. Oh, anyways, so it was really good though it was interesting, it was really good it was really slow but it was really good.
Speaker 1:Very slow service, but for a wine bar I think that's appropriate. But for what we needed. Wine bar is definitely not what we need to go to next time.
Speaker 2:Yes, it was not maybe the best option for pre-pod course, but that's okay, all right, cool. So we are going to set our intentions for today. The intention of this episode is to, of course, say fuck, shame. And the way that we do that is by helping people see that they are not alone. The way that we do that is by helping people see that they are not alone, that these really hard, difficult, challenging things that you experience and that you think shame tells you that you're alone and you're weird and you're bad, and we're here to say you're not. There's a lot of people out here that are experiencing that and we want to make sure that you know you're not alone. No, you are not, that's right, all right. So you are not, that's right, all right.
Speaker 2:So we are not experts on diet culture. We do not have PhDs in diet culture, but we are two women living in this world and we understand and we have a lot of experiences to share. Yes, we do. Yeah, what is diet culture? I would spend a lot of time just coming up with my own definition, but I think it's better to read you this one that I found. So bear with me because it's kind of technical, but I think it's really good. Oh, all right. So at its highest level, diet culture is a system of social beliefs and expectations that values thinness above all. This system equates having a thin body with being healthy and consequently assumes those in larger bodies are unhealthy, and puts the pursuit of thinness on a moral pedestal. That's huge. In other words, if you're not thin, or aspiring to be so, diet culture works to make you feel guilty, less worthy or even oppressed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is a very clear and good definition, but it's so sad, it is so fucking sad, so sad, yeah, and I feel and identify with so much of that definition, so much of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah that, if you're not, if you're at a time in your life where you're not thin, you have to be trying to be thin, Absolutely. And if you're not trying to be thin, there's just this moral problem with that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's wrong with you? Why are you not aspiring to that?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, exactly so I think that's a it's a heavy one. It is heavy, yeah, it is, but it's. These are the kind of things, this is the system that we live under that nobody fucking talks about.
Speaker 1:Nope, yeah, just live with it and I think saying it out loud and acknowledging it that way has a lot of power Like we want to embrace those healthy bodies, no matter what they look like. But here's this other fad. And do this, yeah, because you can do better than what we're trying to say is acceptable. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, it's like it's always both. It's like, yeah, bodies that aren't thin are great, they're great, they're great. But anyways, here's how you lose weight and here's how you stay thin. Yep, great, they're great, they're great, but anyways, here's how you lose weight and it's just fucking sucks. It does. Yeah, so I was thinking about what kinds of diets I have tried in my life, and I was a teenager in the 90s, so I got to experience the ultra low fat diet fad, which was really, by today's standards, really interesting because like, for example, instead of getting movie popcorn, what, like the diet trick was was to get popcorn flavored jelly beans, because they have zero fat but they taste like butter, and so, yeah, and that was that was like the healthy thing to do. No, because there was no fat and because people were afraid of that. But of course, now you're not getting the fiber and fat is okay, and you know, yeah, so that was the 90s.
Speaker 2:They they came up with this um, artificial fat or something, a fat you couldn't digest called olestra, and they were making potato chips with this stuff and the I'm so disgusted by this, like what the hell did that do to your body?
Speaker 1:well, one of the like risks that they had to to mention on the bag was anal leakage oh my yeah, it's like the artificial sweeteners where your stomach is like nope, you're not staying in my body.
Speaker 2:Exactly, yeah, so those lasted, I don't know, maybe six months, that people were trying those things, and then they were like never mind.
Speaker 1:I'm sure they lost weight with that anal leakage. Yeah, anal leakage is one way to lose weight.
Speaker 2:Of course, it's all like water and maybe a little bit of your soul.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you want to smell like anal leakage during your day.
Speaker 2:So terrible With these jelly beans. Yeah, and have some jelly beans. See, another diet for me was, yeah, when I first moved out from my parents, I was really poor and all I could afford was top ramen and I mean, I got really skinny and I lost like half of my hair. Oh no, I was not getting adequate nutrition and I think like the sodium, I don't know, but like, yeah, I lost half my hair and I got really thin and I remember my mom was like, oh, why are you losing weight? And I was like I'm not trying to, mom, I can't afford food right now.
Speaker 2:And she was like oh my God, you know and went and took me food shopping. But yeah, so that's not really a technical diet, but it happened, yeah it happened Definitely and ironically, while it was happening, I would run into people and they'd be like oh, you look so good because I was losing weight and I'm like I'm literally hungry, I'm starving myself, I'm literally fucking hungry, yeah, and you're telling me that I look great? Yeah, fuck that shit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm very careful when it comes to complimenting somebody, like if I know they're on a weight loss journey, then I'll like say something to praise what they're doing, like I can tell the work that you're doing is paying off. But I will never say like, oh, you look like you've been losing weight. Or I try to like word or phrase my words very differently, so it's not like, oh, you're losing weight, but it's like oh, it seems like you're achieving your goals exactly you're achieving your goal yeah so it's not like if somebody is not trying to lose weight and they're just eating or they can't, yeah, so it's like trying to frame it, so it's not triggering, but yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't know. It's really hard to do because you, if someone has that goal and they're working really hard toward it, you want to acknowledge it and at the same time it's so toxic to be like thinner is better, smaller is always better and to assume that something is good just because someone is getting smaller. Yeah, um, yeah, I think that's a. That is something to think about everybody we'll talk more about that later.
Speaker 2:Yes, um, then I had my mom had a heart attack when I was like 25. And they said it was a hormonal heart attack, which who knows. She didn't have any blockages, but she got like really upset in a conversation with somebody and had a heart attack, Anyways. And then after the heart attack, it was became clear that she had diabetes, which was new.
Speaker 2:And so then there were all these like here's what you're supposed to eat for diabetes and so then I changed my diet to try and prevent getting diabetes because I was so afraid of that. But what I did was I started like cooking all these expensive whole foods foods from scratch in my house, which which is lovely, but I also gained weight because I was just eating a lot more. Yeah, sure, they were like whole grains, but they were. You know, it was a lot more food. Later in my life I did a vegan diet for three years, which was I read some books about like the health benefits and and really for me a lot of it was the animal welfare issue, because I'm a big animal lover.
Speaker 2:I work with animals when I'm not at a podcast studio and, um, I felt like it was a way that I could make a difference. And yet I was just always hungry. For like three years I was always hungry. I mean, my hair and my skin looked great because of all the vegetables.
Speaker 1:Because I was doing it like really clean vegan.
Speaker 2:But I was just like. All I could think about all day was what I was going to eat next and like making it, because that was like 10 years ago, before there was all this vegan food available everywhere. So if you were vegan, you had to make your shit shit. Nobody was just selling that shit to you. That was when and you have a plate full of broccoli.
Speaker 1:You're gonna be hungry in an hour exactly, and you know it, so your brain is just like always like okay, what will I eat next? What will I eat next? It's exhausting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's exhausting. Um then I've done low carb and I did keto last year, which was so I went through like I think, after the vegan thing, I had done some reading and done some research and done some soul searching and was like I'm done with dieting. I don't think it's healthy, I think it's bad for you and I know it's for me. It's bad for me mentally, and so I decided to jack out of that system. But then I had a partner who really wanted to lose weight and really wanted to do a keto diet, and it's pretty hard to not have the same diet with somebody in your house.
Speaker 2:So I was like, okay, sure, I'll, just I'm going to do this, we're going to do this. And then, um, what it did was it kind of like kicked into gear all these like old diet culture, eating disorder-y, weird uh thought patterns that I have that, and it was like, fuck man, you know, I now I'm, now I'm counting again how many carbs that I had today, how many calories have I had today, how many like everything. So that was part of why we're even talking now was that I kind of dipped my toe back in and it sort of took over and it was not awesome's scary when you, yeah, reintroduce yourself to that and you think you're going to be able to be healthier or it's going to be different, but it never will be.
Speaker 1:It's it, it's. You never get over that side of yourself. It never changes. You have those same minds over that same mindset and those same experiences, no matter what or how long it's been since, since the beginning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's crazy, it just like. It just like came right back. It's like, oh, ok, this is how. And I think the worst thing about it was this feeling that if I had not met the targets of this diet, that I was a failure. And it was day to day like, oh, you just went over 25 grams of carbohydrates for the day. God, you're just so terrible, you're a failure, right. And then now I feel bad about myself. Now I don't want to go out because I feel like I'm bad. Now I don't want to do things I enjoy. Feel like I'm bad. Now I don't want to do things I enjoy. I don't have levity because I'm sitting here in this state of depressed oppression from my fucking diet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or this pair of pants that fit me great. This morning feel like an inch off this afternoon because I went 20 grams over my carbs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was really hard for me um to realize that I was still still fucking in it.
Speaker 1:I'm just still in it, yep.
Speaker 2:And then I looked back and I was like actually I've been in it for so long Cause I looked back and I was like I didn't think it for so long because I looked back and I was like I didn't think of these things as diets, but they were fucking diets, yeah, and I was counting things out and I was basing my self-esteem on whether or not I had um stuck with whatever, the yeah, so I call it um diet math.
Speaker 2:So have you ever heard? There's a, an article that came out like a year or two ago about hair math for women, which I was like it sounds weird but it's really interesting, and it was talking about like how much we have to think about which day we should wash our hair, what we should do like do I work out? Because I don't want to wash my hair today, but I have a meeting and I want to look really good, yeah, so like all this fucking math about managing our hair and like which days get the wash and which days we can do what activities because of how it's going to affect our hair.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's the same thing with the dieting, and so I was thinking it's like this um, middle of the day, how many calories do I have left for dinner, right, yeah, oh shit, I'm gonna count them up. I had like 150 60 for that banana, 120 for the peanut butter. Oh shit, I only have 400 calories left for dinner, yeah, right.
Speaker 1:Or I get a stick of broccoli.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Or a stick of asparagus for dinner yeah.
Speaker 2:And you know which is sometimes the result. Also this like maybe if I poop I'll weigh less.
Speaker 1:Do you relate to that? I do, so I was reading these notes earlier and I laughed my ass off because so give a little backstory. My partner right now is, um, trying to do a healthy lifestyle and and lose some weight and and reach some goals of his, and he bought this fancy ass like $500 scale which I was super nervous about bringing it in, but I was like, okay, I'm gonna like be aware of my past and not weigh myself every day, but weigh myself periodically. So I wanted to test myself and so I I weighed myself in the morning and then I pooped like this was it within a 10 minute period? Weighed myself, poop.
Speaker 1:I weighed myself in the morning and then I pooped Like this was within a 10 minute period. Weighed myself, pooped, weighed myself again and I gained weight. I wind down and I'm like, what the fuck? Like, how does that happen? I did not eat anything at all this morning, but I pooped and I gained weight. So that is bullshit. But I laughed so hard when I read that point because I was like, nope, doesn't, doesn't work.
Speaker 2:You can poop and still gain weight, I know, and sadly I've been like, and those mornings were like, oh no, and the scale went up and I'm like maybe if I, maybe if I poop it'll go down, even though I know it's not going to, but it can go up.
Speaker 1:But it's just like this desperation for the number to go down, because the number goes down, then I'm good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and if the number is higher than this arbitrary line I've set in my head, I'm bad. Yep, right, let me tell you a story. Yep Right, let me tell you a story. I was super excited to try it and bummer, it's way too strong, even on the lowest setting, turns out, I can't even use it, and I wasted 80 bucks. So I throw it in my nightstand and a couple months later I look to discover that it has actually melted into another sex toy in my nightstand. I was so mad I decided to start my own sex toy company, juicy.
Speaker 2:At Juicy, we sell a highly curated selection of body safe sex toys and we test them so that we can give you all the deets about whether or not it's right for you, such as how strong or gentle it is, how loud is it and how easy is it to operate. So support this podcast and buy your next sex toy at GetJuicycom. That's G-E-T-J-O-O-S-I dot com GetJuicycom G-E-T-J-O-O-S-Icom. You know, one of them is when we keep old clothes right Like these are my skinny clothes and this idea that if we get rid of them, we're getting rid of our skinny self Right, even if they're like way the fuck out of style.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're not gonna wear this shit again. Right, it's and it's, just sits there like taunting you in your closet.
Speaker 1:I had 80 pairs of jeans, holy crap. That did not fit. Oh my god, holy crap, want to be that person again that fits into these pants. You know what that person was. You don't want to be that person again. So you need to let them go and I like, separated them on what actually fits and sat with them, stared at them for probably a week had them like in my living room.
Speaker 1:So my partner and I both knew like it's time to get rid of these 80 pairs of jeans that were in my closet and then found friends that I knew would fit Actually I had. We have a girlfriend that her and her two daughters that would enjoy these jeans, and it was a wide variety of styles. So with her and her teenage girls, like I knew it would like spark them joy. So it made it so much easier. But 80 pairs of jeans that I held onto for four years, for four years, hoping that I was going to fit them back into them.
Speaker 2:Even though you know that you don't, you're not joyful when you're living the life of the person that fits in those jeans nope, no, but it feels like almost this is where the morality comes into it. Right? It feels like the right thing to do. Yeah, to like torment yourself with that it does.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, like getting dressed every day. Looking at those jeans, like right in front of me, like 80 pairs of jeans is a huge stack. It's a huge. Yeah, it's a decent pair of a stack of jeans. Yeah, yeah, it's a torment for sure. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I just think that this notion that we have to suffer if we don't feel thin is just so baked into that and I fucking understand it. I didn't have 80 pairs of jeans, but you know, I've been there, yeah. So, like for me, I started to notice after the dieting got introduced back into my world that I would weigh myself every single morning and if I gave myself like a four pound window because of water, weight and whatever, like this range is OK, but if you go above it, then above it, then you're not okay. Secretly, it was really a two pound window. Yeah, I was gonna say four pounds is quite a yeah, but logically I knew it should be like four.
Speaker 2:Yeah um yeah and so, but what would happen is, if it was up, I'd be, it would affect my mood for the whole day. I'd be like I feel bad about myself, I, I'd be down, um, and that just fucking sucks, yeah, even if I go. Okay, well, actually, yesterday you drink alcohol, you had a bunch of salt. It makes sense that you have more water in your body right now, but it doesn't matter the number. You know the number rules all and I feel bad about myself, yeah, um, and then also the like, this idea that was happening for me, of one wrong food choice ruining my day, like my. So you know, if you are on keto and you have a piece of bread and you're like it'll be fine, and then you look up the carbs and that specific piece of bread on your app on your phone, yeah, and it turns out it put you over, and then it's just like well, now my day is ruined, my dieting day is ruined.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now I'm trying to work myself back into ketosis.
Speaker 2:Like.
Speaker 1:I can't do anything else. Yeah, mm-hmm, yep.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I fucking hate, I hate that, I hate this diet math. I hate living under the tyranny of these numbers deciding how I feel about myself Yep, any of these numbers deciding how I feel about myself. And when these numbers decide how we feel about ourselves, they decide how we behave and how we treat ourselves. And it's just so much deeper than just like, for many of us not for everyone, but for many of us it's so much deeper than just weighing yourself every day. It's really really complex.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all right, I think that this is a really good time to make a fucking important point, which is we're talking about toxic, dangerous for some people, life-ending diet culture and stuff.
Speaker 2:That is really fucking hard, and we are connecting over our shared experience and supporting each other through it. Yep, but not promoting these ideas Abso-fucking-lutely not. So, yeah, to be 100% clear, when we talk about that, we were counting our carbs for keto or we were, you know, we are describing a difficult experience that we had and connecting over it. We are not in any way trying to encourage you or anyone else to do that. So, yeah, I just want to make that clear. Yep, and then I also want to say we had accidentally, um, our computer died in the middle of the podcast and we went on for 20 glorious fucking minutes of podcasting that you guys are never gonna hear, because the computer died yes, it did so we're gonna just go on with the story and try to go back to where we were, but I just want to let you know if it feels a little bit abrupt right now.
Speaker 1:That's what happened it was the perfect time for a potty break it was.
Speaker 2:We both had to pee. Yep, it was you know worked out the gods. The gods were looking out for us. So, okay, I'll pick up where I left off, which was I was talking about all the fucking diet math and how much of your brain is occupied by diet math. I am sitting at my desk. I could be doing amazing things for my startup and changing the world, but what I'm trying to figure out is how many grams of sugar did that granola bar have in it?
Speaker 1:and I mean the absurdity of this fuck right, yeah, yeah, it makes it so much easier. Now you can scan the barcode and so you don't have to enter in every little, fucking little thing, but it's still as bad it's still so bad yeah, it's still so bad.
Speaker 2:It's just. Yeah, it's a way to be obsessed and to question your own value, yeah, so when I realized how much of the shit I was actually doing, I decided I needed to do a detox. So I read this book that I had been hearing about that was recommended to me, which was called Intuitive Eating. About that was recommended to me, which was called Intuitive Eating. Now, it was written by two dietitians and it is just filled with peer-reviewed research, absolutely impeccably researched book, strong, solid foundation, and they basically say something that we already know and it's fucking profound, which is dieting is bad for you. Weird, yeah, and they're like stop dieting and you'll have better health outcomes.
Speaker 2:We know this, the research bears it out, and yet we're still dieting. Yep, right. So I just find myself kind of flabbergasted that we're at this moment in time when we've known for a damn long time now that dieting isn't good for you and, at the very least, if you wanted to put thinness on a pedestal, we know that over time it tends to result in weight gain, but overall it's not linked to positive health outcomes. So, okay, how is it also linked to virtuousness, then? Right, for what? For who? To something that was a new concept to me that really kind of blew my mind, which was we all have this fantasy of this skinny self that we will someday be.
Speaker 2:So it tends to be that we have a certain weight like a weight that we were at a certain time, or a weight that we decided was our ideal weight, and that we believe that when we are this weight, we will get the kind of sexual attention that we want. We will feel confident, we will feel free and confident enough to do the things that we actually want to do. We believe that people will treat us differently at this weight and that we're going to feel differently in our own skin and that we all sort of have this fantasy skinny self that we're connected to. That keeps us addicted to the diet culture, and this resonated so fucking strongly with me that we're connected to, that keeps us addicted to the diet culture and I this resonated so fucking strongly with me. It just was like Fuck me, it's true, it's fucking true.
Speaker 1:Do you relate to this? I do, yeah, I do In the previous recording. I want to go back to. This is where you brought up your story Of your past with your ex husband. And I thought that was very important, so I want to make sure we don't miss that. So I think it's a good point or a good spot to bring that up.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So here's an example of what I mean. So I was married to an alcoholic for 10 years. I was married to an alcoholic for 10 years and I don't know, it was probably five to seven years in when it was, like God, really bad, and it somehow coincidentally linked up with when I became vegan and started to go to the gym four days a week, like religiously, yeah, and I did all the things you're supposed to do. I was eating the most virtuous, the most healthy fucking diet you could eat. I was going to the gym, I was getting a ton of cardio, I was doing a ton of weightlifting, I was in shape, I was healthy as fuck and my partner was still an alcoholic and my life was still not good. And I had believed which I didn't realize it until I got there that I had believed somehow that if I could just be virtuous enough to be thin and quote, unquote healthy, that my life would come together.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because this is what we're taught Like, this is what the movies and the TV shows say. It's like oh well then you just, you lose weight and you become the perfect weight, and then everything just comes together. Lose weight and you become the perfect weight, and then everything just comes together. And I remember being like fuck me, dude, like I am vegan, I'm forgoing the wonders of butter and bacon. Yeah, right, and all the change that I wanted didn't happen, because my hope, my hope, my hope, my subconscious hope, was that I could inspire my alcoholic husband into taking care of himself. So I thought, if I can be the most healthy person that I can be, he will see it and he will be around it, and then he will become healthy too. Yeah, and it didn't work. No, spoiler alert. Yeah, it doesn't work. Nope, and it didn't work. Spoiler alert, it doesn't work. It was really sad for me to realize that and to know how much hope I had put into this and, quite frankly, it's sad to know how much pressure I had put on myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for being responsible for his need to change or his happiness.
Speaker 2:Yeah exactly Like that. If I am perfect, it will change him, which I'm a smart person. I know that's not true, but it was a hook for me subconsciously and it controlled years of my life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. I think it's a good point just outside of diet culture. Like, no matter what the fuck you do to make your life better, your partner, who has these negative bullshit tendencies, will never change and never catch on to that. They will never change. I think that alone is just a good point in relationship advice yeah, yeah, that's true, that's true.
Speaker 1:You can't change people, no, you cannot change people and you can't force them or encourage them to get on the same wheelhouse that you're on, regardless of what it is, especially with a healthy lifestyle. Yeah, especially More unhealthy lifestyle, healthy-ish.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think it's just like you can't change other people by changing yourself.
Speaker 1:Nope yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think I suspect I'm going. I'm off the grid right now, yeah, but I suspect that for women, this is a very common delusion. Absolutely yeah. We believe that if we can become the most perfect version of ourselves, those around us who we love will also elevate. Yep.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Not true, not true. And what pressure? Yeah, what pressure, pressure. Not worth it. Are you gonna have eggs with your breakfast? Do you want your husband to be an alcoholic and die? No, okay, no eggs. No, I'm good like I'm gonna just have the tofu scramble. It's absurd. I mean, when you say it out loud, it's fucking ridiculous.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but that's what it's like it's that, yeah, it's reality, it's reality yeah, yeah, I laugh at myself um, yeah we get these ideologies and it we convince ourselves that they're real and that's what has to happen, and it we are so fucking good at convincing ourselves that that is real, and and it's reality, it's. It's crazy what our minds can convince us to do.
Speaker 2:It really is because I have to say with my ex-husband way early in our relationship which I have about red flags.
Speaker 1:What are those?
Speaker 2:He had gotten addicted to meth and we broke up and he went to rehab and then he was quote unquote better, because I didn't understand addiction the way that.
Speaker 1:I do now yeah.
Speaker 2:And I know that that is not Not how that works. Going to rehab does not equal better no, and Addiction is still addiction. It absolutely is. And so in that process I learned a lot about being codependent. And da da, da, da. So I was like I am not going to be codependent. And da, da, da, da. So I was like I am not going to be codependent. I will not because I would not try to manage or control his drinking period and a story wouldn't do it. Um, but I would try to be perfect and inspire him into not drinking. Yeah, which was so insidious it was so insidious but it's different.
Speaker 1:Itidious, but it's different, it is Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I thought it was. I thought I had great boundaries.
Speaker 1:Yeah, could you sense my sarcasm there? I hope so, yeah.
Speaker 2:And the thing is, when you are partnered with an addict who is using, you cannot be well and healthy with that person. You cannot, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Absolutely not. You just can't. It does not matter any. It doesn't matter any choices that you make or any positive environment that you're involving them in or surrounding them by, it does not change.
Speaker 2:Nope, even if you are also an addict, it still does not change. No, it does not. It is not an environment conducive to wellness.
Speaker 1:So I will just say that?
Speaker 2:Yep, yeah, yeah. So do eating disorders matter if you're not at risk of starvation?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, they do.
Speaker 2:So I have a person that I know, who is a man, who is overweight, who is always trying to lose weight, and he will engage in behaviors and attitudes that I find really fucking toxic, just like, hi, that's eating disorder. Hello, that's an eating disorder thing you know over and over. And he's like, oh, ha ha ha, let's worry about that when I'm too skinny. So this idea is that if you're not starving, that it's okay to have toxic belief systems about your own body and your value.
Speaker 1:Ouch Right yeah.
Speaker 2:That's mm-hmm. It still harms you. Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I wonder if that is like the difference between like like eating disorders with females and eating disorders with males. Like, is it not true, because I'm male.
Speaker 2:I do think that they think that that's yeah, that sounds about right.
Speaker 2:To be like me, just throwing some shit out there. I do think that men think they are not susceptible to eating disorders because they are men. Yeah, some shit out there. I do think that men think they are not susceptible to eating disorders because they are men yeah, and it is not true. And I don't think people understand the harm of eating disorders is not just the after-school special where somebody gets too skinny and they grow all the little hair that keeps their body warm and they have to sit on a pillow because their their tailbone hurts and like that. Stuff is sick and it's weird and it's hard to watch and we see it, but it doesn't have to go to that extreme measure doesn't it's all about your relationship with yourself and your relationship with food?
Speaker 2:yeah, and if that is trapping your existence in this toxic fucking cycle, you are still suffering and it is not harmless. Yep, yeah, yeah. So that's me on my soapbox.
Speaker 1:I am right there next to you, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So so basically I was trying to figure out, as a person who's worked so hard to not participate in diet culture, as I personally have the scale said, who was constantly counting my calories and my carbs and all this stuff, and and my sense of goodness or badness, I guess, is the simplest way that I can say it, yeah, was based on those numbers and where I was on that, on that kind of chart in my brain, um, and so I was like where the fuck is this shit coming from? Like I don't want, I don't believe in diet culture.
Speaker 2:I'm so above this what? And then I was like hi, how about your family? Yeah, how about the family that you were raised in?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean it has to stem from somewhere. It does.
Speaker 2:Cause we don't just get these ideas. These are the most unnatural of ideas. Quite frankly, the most natural idea would be to nurture and care for your body so that it was the most healthy, thriving thing it could be. So clearly there's interference from nurture when we come into talking about diet, culture stuff. So for me, my mom was always on some kind of a diet. She absolutely hated her body. It was very clear. And the thing that was clear to me as from very young I think five or six you know, I have these little like video snippets in my brain of memories but was that my mom's size was something that was wrong with her and it was something that she needed to fix.
Speaker 1:And just that. That's a really young age to have that thought. Yeah, really young age.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to have that thought, yeah, really young age, yeah, and to be like, okay, so because she got some new diet that they sent sent in the mail. It was like a bunch of stupid bars and milkshakes or whatever in a box and I was asking my dad about it and he's like you know, this is what mom's gonna eat. And I'm like, why doesn't mom eat the same things that we eat? It's like, well, because she's trying to lose weight. And I'm like, why?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like well, because she wants to lose weight. And I just remember being like huh.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And like it was. It was Very confusing, but from that point forward it was clear to me that my mom's size was a problem and that it was her job to make it a priority. To be working on changing her size so that was just that to me is like kind of profoundly sad. Yeah, can I ask?
Speaker 1:like, like, what number are you of? Like, are you the youngest? Yeah, and how many children did she have? She had three kids, three kids.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, so there's three of us and we span out five years, okay.
Speaker 1:So I mean three kids. Can I mean? One kid can do damage on your body.
Speaker 1:And three kids can definitely do damage on your body and three kids can definitely do damage on your body and the the the beauty of producing children and bringing them to your into the world. Like it, there are scars to show for that, and like that hurts me alone. Like just I don't have any children just to make that preference. But like I respect women and I love their bodies even more knowing that they have had children, they're bearing that scar and that love on their bodies and so it saddens me when they're trying to reverse that. It's a miracle of a woman's body.
Speaker 1:It's not mourning that pre, that nubile body.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, yeah, yep, she had three kids. She had what she called it was a gut, so it's like a belly um, and she hated that part of her body so much that like it was almost like it was something separate from her. You know, and when she would try on clothes at like, we go to JCPenney's or what was Macy's back in the day, it was the Bon Marche.
Speaker 1:Bon Marche yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I would go shopping with my mom and if the clothes didn't fit or she didn't like the way she looked, she would punch herself in the stomach and grit her teeth and say mean things to herself at the same time. Um, how old were you then?
Speaker 1:uh, probably nine or ten and dressing rooms are fucking small, right, fucking small.
Speaker 2:So you're like in and honestly it's violence. Yeah, and I don't have all I this is I have. No, I have all compassion for my mother. Yeah, you know, and that's violence, it is you're suscepting your child to violence?
Speaker 1:Yes, at that point.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and it was scary and it was so fucking sad. Yeah, it was so sad, yeah. And I remember I saw this TV show. I can't remember what it was called, but it was one of those where they give people makeovers.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And the lady who was on it was like the stylist she would tell people when things didn't fit.
Speaker 2:She'd be like it's not you, it's the clothes, and she explained her argument, which was really rational, because she talked about how every brand has fit models and every brand is cut differently and like it really truly is the clothes there's nothing wrong with you like the most beautiful women in the world, look weird in certain clothes from certain brands because it's not for their body, and I learned to try to say this to my mom and like soothe her through the shopping experience and it was really helpful and it's very sad that.
Speaker 2:I had to do that At a young age. Yeah, To be like it's not you, it's the clothes. And I'd go out and get the other sizes for her and remind her that it didn't matter what the tag said. All that mattered was whether she felt good in it.
Speaker 2:But it was this experience of this like the person I loved more than anything in the entire world as a child your mother, yeah right, hurting herself and rejecting herself like that was just so hard to see. Yeah, and it made a big impact on me. Um, yeah, she wouldn't like so we would go on family vacations. She wouldn't go in the swimming pool with us because she said she didn't feel like she should wear a swimsuit because she was too fat. Um, and then this is the most, probably the most disturbing she used to have like a long-term joke that she was going to use a sharp knife to cut her stomach off and call 911 with the other hand so that she just wouldn't have her gut anymore, but she wouldn't die. And this wasn't like something she said once. This was something she said many times and she went into detail about how she thought that she could really do it and it was fucking horrifying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, holy fuck, yeah, yeah yeah, and I think that's the extent to which she was suffering under self-hatred. Yeah, from the system that we live in.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Was that that felt like a good choice. So that when I say this is kind of where I was coming from, it's probably not surprising that when I started to do any kind of a diet, I suddenly ended up in this crazy, crazy, psycho diet zone. Right, how about you? Do you have family?
Speaker 1:Not directly. So my mom was always relatively thin. She had four kids and had that little pooch, but was always smaller in size with her frame. But my best friend growing up, my childhood best friend I probably met her later in elementary school. I don't know how old you are then, but she was a bigger girl and I've always been like, growing up I was always like really small, like couldn't gain weight, but it wasn't like we were trying to get me to gain weight, I just was a smaller framed child. But she was a heavier set and so was her sister.
Speaker 1:But her mom was always so focused on their size and I watched that, um they, she forced them to go on the treadmill every day for a certain amount of time. She bought like shitty food, like soda and candy, but it was all sugar-free, and so they were allowed to eat all of that. But my mom wouldn't buy any of that, and so I was. I was very confused on like well, how come they can have it, but it's sugar-free? And then their mom is telling them that it's okay with them, but like I'm not seeing like healthy choices, like I was so confused at that time. But one thing that stuck in my head and really fucked me up with boob size. Was that your stomach needed to always stick out further than your boobs, or the opposite?
Speaker 1:No, yeah sorry, your boobs needed to stick out further than your stomach always, and I was a flat chested kid for a long ass time, and so I was constantly so worried.
Speaker 1:Like you know, when you eat and your stomach would expand, I'd be like, oh shit, oh no.
Speaker 1:And so I was so worried about it, and I mean there was other teasing about the size of my boobs growing up, and so eventually I did get a boob job and but that stuck with me, um, and and it still sticks with me, like I think about that constantly, like your stomach cannot stick out further than your boobs, and that's I.
Speaker 1:I don't know why it sticks with me, but it's so fucked up. And the shitty part is is both of her daughters at that age, when she was saying that shit, their stomach stuck further out, oh no, and it's like now reminding me of it or like hearing me say that and, looking back, it's just like I. I would love to take a moment to like sit down and talk to them, but I also don't want to like that's so, so sad, but like they grew up with that. But that same best friend, because I was so little in middle school, made this rumor that I was bulimic and I just hit the mic um that I was bulimic and I was like nope, I like my food, I'm not bulimic.
Speaker 1:I swear like follow me to the bathroom, I'm not throwing out my food um, but yeah, just not directly with my own family, but like living closely with another family as a best friend. I saw that and and did live it. I was terrified of gaining weight watching that family, yeah, yeah yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's kind of everywhere.
Speaker 2:It's very ubiquitous, I think. So A big impact for me was that my older sister's best friend in high school had an eating disorder. She was anorexic and bulimic and it was to the level that she was hospitalized multiple times. She was in and out of hospitals and she was also a very popular and beautiful girl, was a really good singer Really, you know, and so some of her behaviors became sort of idolized. So some of her behaviors became sort of idolized and then, with my sister being good friends with her, when they became close, she started to develop weird eating issues and weird body image issues and that was sad. Same time it came with this warning for me, because I saw this person whose eating disorders were so severe that she she was scary looking like she would get like when people are way too thin, they get this. They grow this really fine long hair all over their body because their body can't insulate because it doesn't have
Speaker 2:enough fat, yeah, and it's kind of like. It's like the hair you imagine on a spider. Yeah, it looks like that, yeah, and it's unattractive and it's scary and it's weird. And so I had this like stark reminder that this was a serious thing. But at the same time, my sister, who I idolized more than anyone in the world, was kind of mimicking some of the behaviors of this person, and so I was like, well, maybe I should, maybe I should starve myself, maybe that's what you're supposed to do.
Speaker 2:So I went through a phase of I was trying to eat less than 500 calories a day, yeah, and that was, I think, my sophomore year in high school, and it was a short phase, but it was a phase. And then, in the midst of this phase, I was in health class and they were like, oh, we have this project where you're going to document every single thing you eat and put it in a in a sheet, and then we're going to analyze it and see if you're healthy or not. And I was like, oh my God, and so that made it worse, like that made me want to eat less. Oh God, yeah, yeah. So I did that project and I turned it in and I got called into the counselor's office.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I was like what the fuck? And they're like well, we saw Did I eat too much. Yeah, they're like we saw your diet log and you're not eating enough food and we're concerned that you have an eating disorder.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I was just like no, I don't, I'm fine, I just didn't put everything in there. It's, you know, everything's good and they're like, are you sure? And I was like, yeah, and they were really nice and good on them, like honestly, yeah, good on them.
Speaker 2:Like, honestly, yeah, good on them for doing something, but and actually it did make me be like I don't want to do that because I was like embarrassed I didn't. You know, I don't want to be called out like that or like I'm watched like that, so, but yeah, so I mean this. These are the ways that diet culture affects us, because it spreads like a spider web. It's not just coming from Hollywood, it's not just coming from the fashion world. It's coming laterally from every direction, from people in your life.
Speaker 2:And it's so dangerous and you have to be so careful what you surround yourself with so yeah, yeah, that's, yeah.
Speaker 1:I heard a comment from somebody super close to me about somebody else, um, and they were talking about how much weight they've gained. Um, and they were talking about their daughter, about how much weight they've they've gained and teasing them about it. And I'm like, fuck, you do not fucking do that. Oh, my like, why would you say that to your daughter? And they were like, oh, uh, well, but she did gain a bunch of weight and but she says she's eating healthy. And I'm like but you don't say that. Like period, you don't comment on anybody's weight, whether it's like no, what are you doing?
Speaker 1:And they had to give him a little like that's not okay, you can't do that that's not okay, you can't do that.
Speaker 2:I think that's one of the things, one of the biggest behaviors that we all people, all people, especially women, can do, that can be helpful about this stuff is not commenting on people's weight in the sense of connecting thinness, no, with positivity, yeah. So to say, oh, you look great, you look like you've lost weight, like no, not good.
Speaker 1:How about?
Speaker 2:like that dress looks really great on you, yeah yep, just anything relating to weight at all.
Speaker 1:Just leave it off the fucking table.
Speaker 2:Leave it off.
Speaker 1:It's so complicated and it's so toxic for so many of us that Unless it's like you know the person's been lifting and be like oh my God, your ass is juicy. Right, like that's wrong. Yeah, like, look at those. Like that is it. Leave it at that, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but this whole thing of assuming that smaller is good is problematic in so many ways, and I think I would just really encourage people if you see that somebody is smaller, don't compliment them on their size. No, if you want to give a compliment, find something else to say yeah, yeah, um. So I will say I know that, like I was saying, a lot of people are flippant about eating disorders, but I had a friend in high school who died from anorexia. She died, she fucking died in her sleep because her heart, her body ate her heart. Wow, holy fuck, her body ate her heart.
Speaker 2:She was like 16 or 17 years old and she had been struggling with eating disorders and they had been. She'd been in and out of treatment and one night in her sleep, her body just consumed too much of her heart. She was dead. She's dead. She's fucking dead.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's, that's the reality of it. That's so sad and so young, so young and that's doing that you can be doing as parents, versus like just leaving it, putting them in treatment facilities, like checking in on them and like how do you, like I said I don't have kids- I don't know how much control over their life.
Speaker 2:So, when there's a lot of instability, and that probably comes from the parents yeah, which typically is parental- instability, yeah. It's often divorce or mental health issues with the parents, and people will come to the conclusion that they want to control whatever they can control. Yeah, and for some of them, that will become food. Yeah, and so is there something they can do? Yes, they can become a grounding force in the life of their children instead of a tornado. Yeah, and granted, that might not solve the problem, but it certainly would help, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's um. It's really heartbreaking, really heartbreaking.
Speaker 2:It is really heartbreaking and I, I don't know, I, I just I know, because I knew, I knew them, I knew the family and I she was in my we rode the bus to school together every day for our whole childhood and, um, her dad is the one that found her, I don't know. I just I think about what that must have been like for him and her family. And anyways, so may she rest in peace and hopefully in this moment her legacy can be for people to take it fucking seriously. I agree, I kind of want to talk about All right, so we're just going to share some war stories, ok, ok, yeah, again, we are not at all promoting or glamorizing this shit. We're just trying to talk about it because I think a lot of you will be like oh yeah, I know someone who was like that.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I understand that, I've seen that where I did that, and understand that the biggest thing is you're not alone yeah, like almost all of us are going through this and you can connect with other people and share and bond over that and hopefully in a healthy way. Yeah, um, but I think, uh, I had a friend in high school who was one of my best friends, who was definitely anorexic Another one White, upper middle class, whatever, they're all over the place and she was one of my church friends and I remember sitting next to her at church every Sunday and her breath was so bad because when you're starving yourself.
Speaker 2:You get this horrible breath. Yeah, Horrible. And she would always have gum and she was always trying to cover it up with gum and I'd be like, like it's not, you're not cutting it, it's not cutting it. I still still really, yeah, still really really.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Still really brutal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yikes.
Speaker 2:And she felt like she told me that if she ate gum she wasn't hungry anymore. So she would eat it to like trick her body into thinking she was eating food. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yep, food, um yeah, yeah, yep. I know a lot of people that do that with sodas, but they like drink their sodas or carbonated any beverage with the straw. Oh, because you get more air through that and so it fills your stomach up more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and this is not fucking ideas for you guys, just these are not tips, no, please do not listen to this.
Speaker 1:This is so horrible. You should eat food, please. But yeah, you would. Uh, yeah, that's one way to avoid eating, because your, your body would think you're full because you're adding all of this air into your belly oh my gosh so bad, wow bad, wow, yeah.
Speaker 1:So in college, I don't know how it started or where it started, but I started getting really heavily into working out. We got a free membership to the Y and it was walking distance from our dorms. And then I started looking into like pre-workouts and found this diet pill. It was called oxy elite. It was this. I called it the purple magic pill. Um, I ended up getting addicted to it. Um, it gave me this like high energy crack feeling. It gave me energy throughout the day. I was like sweating and burning off fat during the day, but I could, like work out and had the energy to work out as often as I wanted to. And it also suppressed my, my appetite and I lost weight like that. It was so easy. But I, I was addicted to it Point blank, period. And I told everyone and their mother about it wasn't diet related, because I sold that product so well. They were like you should come do this. So I did that for a couple months and I'm like I don't. I didn't have the same passion for that product than I did for this one, but I got so obsessed so I would go to the Y in the morning to weigh myself. So obsessed so I would go to the Y in the morning to weigh myself and, based off of that weight, that would decipher how much I ate for the day and how much I needed to work out after class before going to work. And I pretty much ate avocado and lunch turkey meat. That's all I ate, that's all I allowed myself to eat, and I would work out two to three hours a day.
Speaker 1:Wow, while taking this diet pill, I was beyond pissed off when they discontinued one of the main ingredients in the pill because people had died, oh my God, from it. Wow, they were taking the oxylate along with, like Red Bulls and any other high energy supplement. Yeah, and running marathons and their heart would. They would have a heart attack. So they had to discontinue that, that part of the pill and I was livid. I was so fucking pissed that all of these people were taking this pill irresponsibly and had to ruin it for me.
Speaker 1:But like, looking back at it now, it probably fucking saved my life. Yeah, like I was so addicted to it I would buy like a five month supply at a time to make sure I never ran out. Yeah, it was so scary Like my sister went on it and she got super tiny and when she was on it I was like, oh, you're probably unhealthy, like you're too skinny. But never looked at myself in the mirror. Yeah, never had that same thought for myself, but like that is probably my one of the bigger parts of my eating disorder issues. I have another one, but that, yeah, I probably would have been one of those people that died eventually from it if they didn't discontinue it. Because I was, so my life was wrapped up around in it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so scary, so scary. Those weight loss pills fucking suck. Don't take them. They're not worth it. Just go work out or don't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember in high school, my senior year, there was a group of girls who I was friends with. They weren't like my main group, they were like my side piece group and they all started taking some kind of diet pill. It was really famous at the time. I can't remember what it was, but they all like got really skinny. Famous at the time. I can't remember what it was, but they all like got really skinny.
Speaker 2:even people who like didn't look right being really skinny, like who like it was, like suddenly their head seemed like the wrong size and shape and like every you know things weren't like like adding up, yeah, um, and then in the midst of that, probably like three or four months, and some law came down that like it might have been similar, that like cut out some ingredient and and like got rid of these whatever was working in these pills, and they were like so upset yeah, yeah, yeah it's, it's scary so it is scary and I think what's scary for you and I today is walking on this razor's edge of falling back into that and knowing how dangerous and toxic and unpleasant and unhealthy because it's not
Speaker 2:joyful? No, it's not joy, no, and it's not healthy. And we know, though, because of our past, of having times of being really obsessive and really unhealthy with dieting and stuff, that we're susceptible to that, and so I guess I'm just curious your thoughts about living this existence where we're in a world where we're supposed to be healthy, but what that means can be so unhealthy for us and I look at it the same way I look at addiction okay that that is never something you're not going to struggle with.
Speaker 1:Like you are once an addict, always an addict I was addicted to, I still am, I'm still addicted and my brain still functions around what I eat. I don't feel like it ever won't, but I just have to be okay with, like I can fucking eat this burger and these fries. Like convincing myself like this is okay, okay, but you have to have that conversation with yourself and I, like I wish I didn't, but I, I know I have to, or I, or I will. I, I feel like I, I resonate with somebody that does have an addiction, an addiction to a substance. Yeah, where I I can't not think about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do try on clothes. There are clothes that fit me differently sometimes and not and it's I still struggle with it. Yeah, I, I wish I could get rid of it. I wish, I'm sure there's therapy that could work, help me get through it. But at this time and point where I am in my life, I I view it the same way I do addiction, like it's part of my life and I just have to positively work myself through it. When I think about eating, like it's okay to eat these things, it's okay to not weigh yourself on the scale. Yeah, it's okay to like I fucking love bread Eat a whole fucking loaf of bread, slather an inch of butter on the top because you like it. That makes you happy, and reminding yourself, like you said earlier that, that you did a really interesting perspective and I relate to that a lot, as you're saying it.
Speaker 2:So I used to smoke cigarettes back when people smoked cigarettes Now everybody vapes but back in the day and I smoked like a pack and a half a day. Back in a half a day. I had a cigarette first thing. When I woke up in my bed, laying in my bed every morning, I had a cigarette last thing before I went to sleep every night. And I quit in 2000,. The New Year's of 2003 to 2004. And I haven't smoked since then, but it was brutal since then. But it was brutal and I, as you're saying this, I do think that there is a lot of similarity, because it's what I remember about quitting smoking was that I felt like my best friend had died and there is something about the dieting mentality that feels like a friend.
Speaker 1:That feels like an engaging friend.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and to actually abandon that would would require grief. Yeah, yeah, you know, and I think that perspective makes a lot of sense. And it makes a lot of sense for how I feel about. And it makes a lot of sense for how I feel about dieting. When people bring it up to me casually. If somebody says to me oh, I'm not going to have cake because I had pancakes this morning, god knows, that's enough carbs for the week and I'm just like you're triggering the fuck out of this little part of my brain that wants to kill me. Yeah, honestly, yeah, w wants to kill me. Yeah, honestly, yeah, wants to kill me.
Speaker 2:And it reminds me, I guess I think of like, how, like with the addiction to nicotine, how that was like a thing, and so that's in my past because it was easier to let go of. Honestly, it's so much less prevalent than dieting. Yeah, and dieting is like the most ubiquitous thing in the world and no one's saying that cigarette smoking is good for you, but everybody's saying that dieting is good for you, even though we know that it's not. Yeah, and we know that it creates like toxic. You know patterns in our lives. So, yeah, I think that's a really good point. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I, it helps me process it a little bit better, like it just helps.
Speaker 1:And so, yeah, I think that's a really good point. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean it helps me process it a little bit better, like it just helps remind myself that these things are okay and those things are bad.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It. Just it's a good reminder for myself to just like. It's something I still struggle with and I like it's one day at a time. I need to be honest with myself about it and, and like the other day, I needed a juicy fucking burger yeah, we were together, yeah, and she was like I'm ordering some fucking burgers, yeah are you in or not?
Speaker 1:yeah, I need this and we're like all right, fuck it, we're in yeah, like you just had, like that's okay and and and not feeling guilty about it is a huge step. It's a huge step, yeah and it's okay.
Speaker 2:Though even here's the thing there's there's the part where you order it and you feel horrible, and then there's a part where you can order it and not feel horrible, and then all that in between is the process. Yeah, and so it's okay to be like. I know, when I want a juicy fucking burger, I should be able to order it and not feel bad, and yet I do feel bad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and just breathe through it, yeah, and it's okay, and you're going to get there, to the point where, eventually, you can order it and not feel bad some of the time. Yeah, you're going to get there to the point where, eventually, you can order it and not feel bad some of the time, yeah, but the most important thing is you being in conscious control, yeah, of how you treat your body and not having it become some sort of compulsive, addictive behavior that harms you.
Speaker 2:Yeah so it's mindful and it's. This is what I want, and it's a process and it's okay for it to be a process. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, you know what we didn't talk about. Ironically, what does diet culture have to do with sex? Whoops, well, oh, this podcast is supposed to be about sex. I forgot. Okay, well, this podcast is supposed to be about sex. I forgot.
Speaker 2:Okay, let's just touch on that briefly. I think it's obvious, but you know what, just in case it's not, diet culture affects our self-worth and our self-image, mm-hmm, and those things affect our willingness to be vulnerable with another person, to put ourselves in the situation of physical, sexual and emotional vulnerability. Yep, big time, yeah, go. And this fear, which? So this is one of the things that we are afraid that a lover might find our body unattractive and not, and not want to have sex with us as, as a woman, I. This is a familiar fear of mine, even no matter how attractive I've been at different times in my life that that is a huge part of diet culture. Like, if I have the right body, I won't experience rejection, right, yeah, that if you don't like your body, you're less likely to want to love it. Like masturbate, initiate sex, initiate sex, initiate pleasure for your own benefit, yeah, because you're at war with your own body, right, yeah? So I think it has a lot to do with sex. We didn't exactly, no.
Speaker 1:Focus on that today. No, which is okay's okay. It is, I mean it like if you're so self-conscious about where you're at on your body, like how are you supposed to put yourself in a sexy lingerie outfit to come on to your partner?
Speaker 2:right, exactly, or even that the position, the sexual position, that is the most satisfying for you might be the least attractive.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:It might be that like OK, when I do this and this, like that's how I can make myself come, but it's also not hot and I also feel like my belly shows more when I do this or that and and so I might deprive myself of that because diet culture?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it it, it impacts it greatly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it absolutely does. All right, so I guess now that we finally got to the sex, we can wrap it up here. Thank you, kim, for coming and talking with me about diet culture. This is hard shit to talk about. I think people who are best fucking friends for 20 years almost never even have this conversation. So I hope that those of you who are listening have this conversation with your best friend, talk about it, ask them questions about how they feel about their body, about what they do with dieting. Are they thinking about it all the time? Does it bother them? Get to know each other, inquire, ask and understand, because I think that you will really connect with people and feel less alone, and they will feel less alone.
Speaker 1:And seek to understand where they're coming from before you comment too Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, without judgment. Yeah, because, oh my God, like there are so many, it's like a rainbow of reasons and ways that people function in this space and we all have our own dysfunction. And you want to approach these kind of conversations understanding that there's not right or wrong.
Speaker 2:We're all different and you just got to love your person through it. Yeah, got to love them through it, all right. So thank you everyone for coming and listening to this conversation. Hopefully it was sexy enough. All right, we'll catch you next week. Thank you for listening to the Juicy Sex Podcast. If you enjoyed this podcast, kindly click like and subscribe. It really helps us get the word out and we'll see you next time.