All Tied Up with Knot Snacks and Faeriere

Let's talk rope play and relationships! We are joined by Knot Snacks and Faeriere, two wonderful people and Shibari enthusiasts, who are talking about how to have some real fun with ropes!

Transcript

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Casey 0:00

All right. Well, welcome back to yet another episode of come with Casey. As always, we are your lovely hosts. I'm Dr. Casey Sanders and I'm Carrie Sanders. And we have again, as always, another special episode. I mean, we've, we've been. Kind of sitting on this one for a bit.

Kari 0:15

I've been excited about this one for a bit, but it's mostly

Casey 0:18

about this one for a bit. Yes, I know. I like, we're both like kind of crushing a little bit on our guests that we have coming on today and it's because the work that, that they do is just. It's erotic, it, it's exhilarating and it's inspiring. It's inspiring. I, I can throw out so many words, but, so, and, uh, but to keep myself from just blabbering on with a bunch of bullshit. Let's go ahead and make some introductions today. Yes. So today we are having, we're gonna have the topic of Shaaba on today. If you don't know what that is, it is Japanese rope bondage. We've done a couple episodes. Yeah. We've had a couple of guests on, uh, we continue to push it because of our deep connection to it. Yes. So today we're featuring our lovely friends. We have snacks and we have. Yeah. Hi guys.

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 1:00

Hey, thanks for having us on. It's great to be here today.

Casey 1:03

Well, we are very happy to have you. As we said, like we've been following your work, whether it be through, uh, me being a student with Shabari study and watching some of the work that you guys did, uh, with Gorgon and, and that whole crowd all the way to some of y'all's, yeah, online through like Twitter and various other channels where we get to see your lovely faces and all the work that you do. So we wanted to have you guys on today so we can get a more of a deep look. Inside the world, not only the world of Shabari, but the personal connection that you guys each individually and as, as a group share there. So if you wouldn't mind, let's start off with that. I would love to hear from each of you. What actually got you into Shabari in the first place?

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 1:43

Yeah. You want me to go first? Uh, I'll go first. For me, uh, I have like a modeling background. And, uh, online, eventually I came across these images of, uh, people tied up and being able, especially in terms of suspension. And, uh, there was just a big uh, pull to try to find that and create this new dynamic. thing for my modeling. That was what initially drew me, uh, just how, uh, the different poses and all that could change for modeling. And then I met them and was able to see how much more that could be, more than just like that image and all the movement and sensation and play. Yeah.

Casey 2:39

Okay. So you got, you got into the whole process before you two ever met each other, right? It was, it was the aesthetics and we see that all the time though.

Kari 2:47

And honestly, I've seen this shit and I'm like, God damn it. That looks so beautiful. And it's such a unique version of what like photography or what beauty can be. And so, yeah, I completely resonate with that. I think the first time I saw that Casey introduced it to me, the first thought I had, it was like, well, that's fucking hot. Like I want to do that.

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 3:07

It's, it was one thing to, you know, pose in the woods or, or be pretty on the bed or something, but to be suspended in an otherwise like very challenging position or something but to, to do that so gracefully or whatever kind of emotion, uh, so beautiful and I really wanted to do

Casey 3:31

Absolutely. And that, that's something that we're going to touch on here a little bit later in the episode is the actual feelings behind being suspended like that. Cause we've had our own personal challenges as we go through this, this world to figure out like, Hey, what, what ties are going to work well, what harnesses are, are going to create comfort versus a lot more intense feelings of, of borderline pain. So we're definitely going to get to that, but let's turn it over to snacks real quick. How did you get into Shabari by yourself? Yeah.

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 3:58

I had a partner a few years ago who basically, uh, was like, Hey, have you ever heard of Shibari? Do you want to tie me up? We'd been using like under the bed restraints and like just kinky things in general. And I was like, Oh no, I don't know. What is that? I have no idea. So they like, they, uh, pointed me in the direction of a book and Initially, like my rope and shabari was all just like bedroom bondage, like rope for a very specific purpose. And then it was kind of during covid that I, uh, found myself like. Uh, seeing a lot more, uh, of like, uh, the Japanese style, uh, shibari that we see a lot online and kind of felt like really intrigued and curious about that and was, uh, both of the partners I had at the time were living out of state. So I was alone in my apartment and I got an order to set a ropes and started tying myself. And then met a very good friend, uh, who I started like really, really diving into this stuff with and was kind of like, uh, really swept away with the the, the, the spectrum of intimacy that you can kind of explore with ropes. And that was this, like, uh, playing with this person was never sexual. So it. It, it created this like really kind of like sparkly moment in my brain where I was like, Oh my gosh, I can share these like deeply intimate, deeply sadistic, like connective moments with someone and it doesn't have to be sexual and it can be with other people. That was such a ah, like, yeah, that's kind of what I love about kink in general and BDSM and rope was just like the hyper fixation, perfect outlet for my brain with that kind of stuff.

Casey 5:33

Look, I'm, I'm right there with you. That's one of the big things that I love about Shibari in the first place is that that ability that you can find to separate the, the the sexuality from the intimacy and finding a way to become close to someone is especially getting that, that bond of, of trust that is required to, you know, put somebody through this and to, to engage in it yourself. So I, I'm. Massive amount of respect for you for, for being able to like, kind of recognize that and work towards building into that. So that's a really cool

Kari 6:00

thing. Like I was just fascinated by like plants in 2020, like you're doing so far. That would have been much more beneficial for us.

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 6:08

it was, it was, it was both. I also, uh, I would take you all to my living room. There's a gazillion plants. It was like, I was like, Oh, plants are fine. And then I was like, Oh, but there's also this other thing. And like, I'm a bit of a slut on the internet. So like, it was fun to have this, like other outlets would be thirsty on like Reddit and stuff. And.

Casey 6:27

that's, that's really, really cool. I love the fact that you guys have experienced this. And so if you don't

Kari 6:32

hold on, y'all experience it separately before y'all experience it together.

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 6:36

Yeah, I've been practicing for almost two years, but when I met them, so, yeah, they kind of came into my life at a, at a perfect moment where I was starting to feel proficient and kind of really Had spent already a good while like very like down in the rabbit hole like fully immersed within it. So Yeah, and then we just kind of clicked and it was it was great

Casey 7:02

Oh, I mean, that's such a cute story. I like that. Well, so let's, let's kind of move in. So we have this year to the point where you've built an interest separately. You meet each other, you start working on this stuff together. What led you guys to build this into such what I feel is kind of a higher level of, of content of, of art. Cause y'all are doing quite a bit. Online, especially if you're partnering with some of these sites and you're doing, you know, private work and, and available for hire, what, what was the transition point? Like, how did that work out for y'all?

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 7:36

yeah, I am I wanted to I wanted to tie as many people I wanted to tie it all the time like 24 7 like it this is This is my entire brain space, uh, and I, I am always really embarrassed when I, like, talk to people now, I'm like, I have other hobbies, I swear uh, mostly they involve Root. Uh, I had had a few, uh, friends I had tied who had kind of mentioned the, the idea of uh, taking payment for what, like, being compensated for the time that I'm offering And then when I met them, they really, they were really like, why aren't you taking, why aren't you doing this as a service? Like you're creating such an experience for people,

Casey 8:17

person,

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 8:18

this is the time. So it was a little bit, it was an interesting, and I still kind of, it's an interesting space to like, uh, think about I, I, well, what was the question? How did, how did we do that?

Casey 8:30

How'd you convert

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 8:30

just kind of did it. I put it out there. I was living in a pretty small town. Uh, so it was a little bit it was a little bit easier to organically get, like, my name out there. And, uh, I just kind of worked towards making, like, an, a welcoming space, trying to, uh, I like the idea of creating an experience for people who are interested about shibari. It's, it's, I enjoy that I get to work with experienced and non experienced people, but creating a, like, kind of safer space I'll use the word safer when I talk about spaces because ropes are edge play and they're dangerous and there's no safe way to do it. Safer implies like a certain level of risk awareness and like that, like practice of like being mindful and sharing informed consent with people who are actively participating but creating a space like that, that allowed people who are now also seeing it all over the Internet and getting kind of that, like, interest peaked but making a safer space for folks to come and show up and, and try something that they've been curious about. And it wasn't from just like. Okay. Like Johnny Go lucky on like Tinder. That was like, yeah, I was a boy Scout once. Like I can probably

Casey 9:33

I'm sure I can tie someone up from the ceiling. It'd be great.

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 9:36

yeah.

Kari 9:37

No, I mean, but I love what you're doing in a way because like there are individuals, like you said, that are super interested in it, but like me being someone that's interested in, I can't just like look someone up and have them do this and me trust that it's safe. Like

Casey 9:51

you personally

Kari 9:51

know you can't do that. No, but that's not, no. I'm just saying like for you to offer that, like. You can't go to the fucking yellow pages, which no one knows what that is anymore, but you can't just do that and find someone that can give you, like I said, the safe space that you're looking for, even as someone like me, as like, I would consider myself a rope bunny or a bottom. I, I, I've been fascinated in that aspect. Now I'm just lucky enough to have a partner that is interested in it and, and he wants to dive in. But what if I was someone that didn't have a partner? Or that was interested or a partner at all. And so that you offer something to, to give an individual an experience that they've always wanted. I fucking love that. I absolutely love that.

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 10:32

It was also due to like a lot like where I was like, I was living in Montana at the time and there is a. A healthy King community out there, but it's dispersed quite a bit. And so there was a lack of like in some places, like we're in LA now, like you can go to a bunch, you can go to a rope jam, you can go, there's, there are events, but where I was living there, there weren't those regularly hosted events. And so, yeah, for the people that were curious who are like, I want to do this there, it wasn't necessarily like a welcoming space. You could just like show up and be like, yeah, here's a whole box full of ropes. Like we're going to teach you a thing. So, It was a little bit of me, like, being in love with the thing, wanting to share it, and then, like, the, the need of the space that I was

Casey 11:12

Yeah, no, I, I can get on board with that entirely as me, as a, as an evolving rigor, I've only been doing this for eight months, like nine months or so. And so far my partner's the only person that I've really tied and done suspension work with, and, you know, learned her body and all of that. I mean, we're in, we're in. DFW, Texas, right? We, we have a kink community, but it is the same way as you're talking about with Montana. It's, it's dispersed where there's a couple of,

Kari 11:39

we're still an hour away from anything that would actually be

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 11:42

Right. Yeah. Yeah,

Casey 11:46

communities, but it's the, the events are few and far between. And dungeons are kind of few and far between. There's only a couple in the area, so I can understand you on that. So that's really cool that you have, like, you had this thing that you're like, look, I'm learning this, I'm figuring it out. I feel confident. I want to share it with the world. How can I do this? So that's, that's awesome that you're able to do that.

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 12:05

and, and selfishly, like, it, as a transactional thing, A, provides, like, a really, like, healthy set of boundaries that are immediately imposed in the interaction, and it also lets me tie, A bunch of different bodies. So like it was a, it was a, I'm also, I'm learning, I'm learning on myself and my partners, but now I'm also like adding in like all of these other dynamics. Cause every single body exists differently. We all have different ranges of motion. We all have different ways that rope likes to feel. And so it, Like also cultivated this level of just like rapid progression of being like, yes, I'm going to figure this out. Oh, you want to do this? Okay. How do we make that work for you? How do we do this? How do we create this space? Like, yeah, it was, it was really lovely in that sense.

Kari 12:47

So then I kind of have a question and I would love it. Cause we've kind of said some key words here and, and for someone new to explain a little bit better we've used the word rigor, we've used the road rope, uh, bottom or rope bunny, I guess. Can you, uh, define both of those? But then also I have a question for you is have you ever played as bottom or are you strictly, you know? Yeah,

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 13:13

that, uh, the friend that I made when I started, uh, that whole first year, uh, because it was still active, like lockdown times, we kind of created a bubble where we were just like hanging out multiple times a week and tying and really only seeing each other and the people in our houses. But we switched, so I would tie them and then they would tie me. I did a lot of self tying, so I like being, I love being in ropes. I'm very picky about who I let put ropes on me partially. Probably because I, I do it so much and I like, I want to, I want to be tied the way that I tie. So that's... It's hard to find sometimes.

Casey 13:47

that's, that's fair.

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 13:49

But yeah, I love being in ropes. It's great. Uh, the terms So, the person tying would be called, there's so many names, you could be a rope top, you could be a rigger Probably a bunch of other words you could use, uh, but yeah, that is just implying the person who is putting the ropes on somebody. The person being tied, uh, could be, we will refer to them as either a bottom, a rope bottom, uh, a rope bunny. I don't, we don't use that term very often or sometimes a model. I tend to just refer to people, I usually refer to people as the person being tied, that's in my brain control, like, uh, some of those terms can imply different, like, dynamics, and I don't want to necessarily, like, impose that on somebody if that's not, like, what they're into,

Kari 14:37

sense.

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 14:38

Yeah, and there have been over the past few years has been some interesting conversations about like, like the genderedness of different language in terms of like, say, like, me and like, like some of these different ideas. So, yeah, I usually find myself saying the person being tied or the bottom.

Kari 14:54

Yeah. I think we've most commonly heard top or bottom. It's just, obviously you end up hearing these different like terminologies and where people stand within those.

Casey 15:03

Well, then in that case, uh, Ayala, what. I would love to hear from you too as well. So do you consider yourself more of a, a, just a strict bottom or do you switch also?

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 15:13

I for rope, I am basically primarily a bottom, but I am slowly learning. I would love to, uh, tie them.

Casey 15:23

So, so as snacks teaching you,

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 15:25

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Casey 15:27

that's, that has to be some fun sessions then. Cause I've, I've seen stuff where y'all, y'all will bring in y'all. It will be you guys and then you will bring in a model to be tied up. Is that something that y'all participate in together?

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 15:39

Oh, absolutely. When, when those situations are, uh, it's, it's so fun. I love being able to like join in if it's like a mutual friend. Yeah, yeah, we do it. We'll like do co topping, which is usually. It's just fun when you have like four sets of hands on one person is a lot. Yeah, you can just do a lot of stuff there.

Casey 16:02

Do y'all usually find yourselves doing that with like acquaintances or with play partners or do y'all have like a preferred way?

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 16:09

uh, yeah, that's usually with like, that'll be specifically with PlayPartners, or other content creators. Like if we're doing that for actual like content we're producing, that's not usually something that I would offer out like for, for like clients. Like that's not really a thing that we have like established well enough. Plus I think that play tends to be a lot more, like, sexually charged, and that's not always what I'm, like, offering as a service. Yeah. Mm hmm. Mm

Casey 16:36

Yeah, you start walking fine lines at that point,

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 16:39

Yeah, all of this stuff is a fine

Casey 16:41

right?

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 16:41

yeah, anytime you're playing with, like, any kind of BDSM, uh, and doing it in, in a, in a, uh, I don't want to say commodified version, but that's, that's been, like, a key word lately. But, like, anytime you're offering it out as a service to people, like, You're always on a fine line and you have to, like, constantly be checking, like, where you are, and respectful and mindful of your boundaries.

Casey 17:04

I mean, I mean, honestly looking at it from the, from the outset in, it would be easy for someone to be like, Oh, this is borderline between providing a, almost a form of therapy with helping someone dive into the thing we call subspace and, and to have some self discovery and then crossing that over into something like what would be defined by some people as sex work. So I'm asserting, I'm assuming that there's gotta be like this line of being like, all right. We have to make sure we're doing everything correctly. We're being respectful.

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 17:30

Yeah, uh, I have, I have thoughts on your word choice there that I'm gonna just chime in on too. So first, uh, absolutely what I'm doing and what we're doing is sex work. The root of shibari is in... Is in sex work and erotic, uh, publications. That is the history of it as a practice. And so, and then we, we shy, we shy away and also I, like, I actually like really like, uh, kind of herald the, the, against the use of, uh, therapy. Rope is inherently dangerous and damaging every time we tie it on the body. It can be cathartic, but there's no like, I'm not a therapist and I think implying that you're going, someone would use rope for therapy or as therapy, uh, I think opens up a really slippery slope into like unhealthy power dynamics and and, uh, like misuse of power. And so, I, I tend to, like, if people begin referring to it as therapeutic I usually, like, I nerd out a little bit about the the word, the, yeah, the semantics specifically, but I'm like, yeah, like, therapeutic is actually even the wrong word for what we're doing, like, cathartic would be appropriate It's somatic it, it, uh, inspires like a release and allows you to like, kind of like, settle into those spaces in your body, but it's not giving you any kind of like, Healing or really any actual work that would involve like therapy, right? So, it's absolutely impactful. And like when I was first being tied yeah, uh, I can't even begin to tackle all of the things that it, I felt like it did for me, but yeah, it's just good to know it.

Casey 19:14

Oh, and that's entirely fair. I appreciate that. And that's one of the reasons why we're here in the first place,

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 19:18

Yeah.

Casey 19:18

want to, we want to help people to understand this a little bit better. So I I'm super appreciative with your feedback on that because it's, trust me, it's far from the first time we've had any guests that's like, Hey, wait a minute, let's talk about this for

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 19:31

yeah,

Kari 19:32

second. 100 percent why we do this, but

Casey 19:34

that is,

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 19:34

yeah, yeah.

Casey 19:35

greatly appreciate the feedback that of being like, Hey, let's take a step back and clarify some things as, as we kind of move forward. But that also brings up a really good question that I have for you. I yell it was that you just said that whenever you first started doing this, it, it, it, it created a depth, created some changes for you. Are you willing to open up a little bit about that and kind of describe to us about what are some of the things that you experienced when you first started?

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 20:00

Yeah. Let's see. So like I had said it was something that I was like, Deeply interested in trying, uh, in my area. At the time I was living in Alaska and I didn't know anyone in the area that did ropes. Uh, I tried to learn through resources like Shiva study but being, having most of that interest for myself and bottoming not having someone to tie me. Plus doing the tying myself and the learning curve it was, and then not having a community of people to, like, share the excitement with. When I was finally able to be tied not knowing what all, like, it could look like I was happy enough to, with that, like, modeling background, just, like, get tied. Uh, you know, enjoy that like restraint and like a pretty picture. But when I saw how much, uh, play and connection, uh, and just how dynamic and creative it can all be, uh, was really magical. Uh, I felt me and them, uh, both share this what would we, would we say? Like being able to talk more with just physical touch and bonding that way. Uh, sometimes during a session, we won't speak that much. We're just playing with the ropes and, uh, that feels really good.

Casey 21:40

Yeah. No, trust me. That's absolutely. Oh yeah. We are empathetic to that. That's something that we were just talking about at lunch earlier. We were talking about, cause we did a rope play session yesterday morning where there was, I mean, it was, we were just. Really laughing and having fun. There wasn't a ton of verbal communication. A lot of it was body language. A lot of it was

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 22:02

Yeah.

Casey 22:03

of just being able to like me being in control of the ropes and like, you know, tying one ankle up to the ceiling and other one to the like wide open on the side of a massage table and, and just kind of moving and playing and being intimate with each other, it creates this amazing space

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 22:19

Yeah. Amazing.

Casey 22:20

time you're finishing and you're moving into your aftercare routine,

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 22:25

Yeah. And, and it could look like so much, like, like you said, like, sometimes it's, it's really goofy and there doesn't need to be any, like, talking at all. It's just like. Uh, maybe quit compromising positions and it feels a little bit embarrassing, but like in a flirty, fun way or silly and other times it can be more central or sadistic. And that feeling that I get from like, I am challenging my body and I'm feeling really strong. I feel beautiful. I feel desired, like objectified in a, in a way that like really intrigues me. All of that. There's so much and I think part of what we really click on and we still do like we really, uh, lean into the idea that like we're tying bodies. We're not tying rope like rope is an extension of touch and it's a tool for touch. So. When we're tying, it's, that nonverbal communication is like, the whole bit of it, like, we are working as two, like, bodies who are touching each other, and the rope is just like an accessory to all of that, like, and yeah, that, that's, that's really addicting.

Kari 23:35

Yeah, no, I think that's great. It's the extension to kind of like my next question. And y'all went into it beautifully is whenever y'all create a scene and a scene meaning like, okay, we're going to our session, however you want to call it. Are there times that you're like, all right, this scene or session is literally meant for me to try a tie. I've never tried before. Or is it as structured as that? Or it could be like, Hey let's sit down and let's just see what happens. Uh, like play and just see where it takes us. Or yeah. I mean, or do y'all like set up specific times where like, this is photography. Uh, this is for intimacy. This is for exploration, you know?

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 24:13

Yeah. Uh, I would say like there's definitely times where we are planning like, hey, like we need to make this content video or, like, they'll be like, I really want to work through or learn this new tie, like, let's lab this. Otherwise sometimes it's like a cool mix of all of that setting like the intention beforehand, uh, can be as simple as like, what music do you want to listen to on this tie? And that can, you know, create the mood or like, how are you feeling? Uh, how, like, our bodies are doing obviously affects what can be tied. Uh, yeah, and I, I know, I would say, like, this is actually a thing that we're actively and always working on. I think when like, when we were really new to space with each other, it was really easy to just like, we're just going to play and it's just going to be sexy and all like, it's all you got, like, it blends into it. But we've lately been spending a lot more time of actually, and you know, it's important to acknowledge, like, we're an established, like, couple in dynamics. So, like, when we play. It's easy and safe for us to move from like, just learning a thing to going into a type of play together. Like, that can flow very naturally. But like, we're working towards and we do a lot of like talking beforehand. So it might be a little bit of like. Scoping how we're going to share the space as, is this going to be a scene that we're doing? Are we mentally here for a scene? Are we ready to dive into like some deep sadism? Or are we just like, am I curious about a thing? We, we've always, and we still do, uh, uh, what's the word I'm trying to say? We learn, we practice how we play. So usually when we're learning a tie It's not just like, we're going to drill the thing, like we'll tie it and then explore with it. So usually like it might start like a little bit, like maybe I'm like. Learning it from a video and like pausing, starting, pausing, starting. And then

Casey 26:10

That's me. Relatable.

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 26:11

it's like, like, maybe I'll like tie it the one time and untie it and then we'll be like, Hey, let's tie it again. But like, let's, let's be a little silly and sexy with it. But we definitely, yeah, we definitely set away the time. We very much will be like, we are going to have a photo shoot tonight. Like let's explore some different lighting. Let's explore like what this looks like. And then. Yeah, and then just kind of go from there. Yeah.

Casey 26:33

See, that's, that's a big question I have with looking through some of y'all's content and seeing the amazing photography, by the way, is that stuff that you guys all do on your own or is that something that you bring a photographer in for like, what is that dynamic?

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 26:50

Yeah, I have I've always liked cameras and Video it's always kind of existed in my world in whatever activities I've been in broke has been the thing that gave me like the parallel hyper focus of like I'm learning this thing and I'm seeing these pictures and Wow, I don't want to share any of this till it looks like I am a bit of a like aesthetic perfectionist Perfectionist and so I've been kind of like simultaneously like teaching myself photography in hand in hand with rope. And so most of the stuff you'll see on like our Instagram, if it's like from a session usually the way I do it is like just taking like candid pictures. Like those are moments for me to stop. And like, uh, when we talk about like a scene, like pacing is, is a huge piece of it. So, the pictures are a way for me sometimes to slow down and just like watch them, like being something that, that sucks really bad or is really beautiful. It'll be like a moment where, uh, I'm finally in this position and it's good to just, like, sink into it and they can step back and just observe and see that. Yeah, but we, yeah, we shoot all of our own stuff. We, I, I think it's a continuous dream to find people that will, like, Take pictures of us because it's sometimes rare that we have pictures of us together tying it's usually that like one person in the, in the thing but yeah, it's just all the stuff that we've done. It's been just a process of learning. Like, I have spent as much time as I have with rope, like, geeking out about how lighting works, how to, like, control light and make those images look the way they do. So, yeah,

Kari 28:25

God, you sound like my husband.

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 28:28

yeah, it's I mean, I think it takes a very specific brain to like,

Kari 28:33

Yes, it

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 28:33

anybody can learn how to tie ropes, and anyone can be good at ropes. It takes, I think, a very specific brain, uh, to like self teach and to learn and to fixate. Everything that we're doing with ropes is just a thing that takes practice. So like, uh, people who are inclined to learn a thing and sit there and really practice at it are going to like, they're going to do it. Like, that's just

Casey 28:55

I, I, I'm the exact same way. I hyper fixate on any hobby that I'm doing. I, in all honesty, rope is probably the one that I have taken and have just had to force myself to pace. order to learn because there's a lot of hobbies that I've gotten into where I will hyper fixate and I will go into burnout mode within like three or four weeks because I've like done it all I've been like, all right, here's the first thing and now here's level 10 let's go rope is the one that I've been like, okay, slow down, but

Kari 29:23

I remember you coming to me and telling me that and I was like, yeah, then slow the fuck down. Chill. And first of all, for me, like, I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You want to do what, where and how? And you're putting fucking hard lines in our ceiling. And like, but that's, that's honestly the dynamic that I love so much about us is like you, we can kind of like have these ideas and we come together and then we like really work super well to like enhance those ideas and like. Well, it's

Casey 29:52

the same way. Like on the, on, on the lighting and everything is we do the same. We, we got a nice camera. I bought some lighting. Well, I'll sit there and mess around some. I'll mess around. I'll move things around, try to create a good scene, try to create a good space. So it's good to be able to talk to people who are like, no, this is, we get it. This is the same fucking thing. We're doing it too.

Kari 30:13

Well, because you can't always have a photographer come in, right? Like you can't always. And sometimes it's like, and that's actually, I was going to ask you is like. You know, I mean, we have kids, right? So it's a little bit of a different dynamic. Mama just can't be tied up in the bedroom all the time. No, we gotta lock the door for that one. Yeah, we gotta like, lock the door. Like, talk off. Please don't come in here. So like, how much time as a couple do y'all set aside to, to play, to, to tie? Like, what is that dynamic throughout the week for y'all?

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 30:40

Oh my gosh, uh, I'm going to steal the quote because we love this. Uh, so there's that BDSM test that everybody takes and we've always, we joked about it

Casey 30:49

know exactly what you're talking about immediately.

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 30:51

There's a question on it that's like, would you, uh, leave everything and move across the country to live your BDSM life of your dreams? And that was like, That was like a thing that we said to each other, like after our first date. And like, and now we basically, that is what

Kari 31:05

Y'all did do that.

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 31:07

we, we, you all down here together. Uh, but like we live at 24 seven. So, we tie like all the time. Yeah, I mean, sometimes it, the thing about being in a relationship is like. Your energies have been flow throughout all of that. So like sometimes we tie less than we'd like, but and in those times when we're feeling like we're not doing it enough, we'll like. default to actually like scheduling and planning timeout, but otherwise it's, it's like It will like wake up in the morning and be like, wow, it'd be really hot if we did this later today. And then we'll just like probably like hang around until we're ready to do that and then, or we'll just like roughly do it from there. Yeah.

Kari 31:44

Do you ever just like throw a bundle of ties on her? Like, Hey, come on. Like, let's go.

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 31:49

Uh, I have, I guess I probably have done that. I probably, like, Kayla's like, yeah, I don't know, our, the ropes are pretty much like in this room, so like, usually I'll kind of like walk in here and be like, Yoohoo! I've really been wanting to like, something low key like for a little public moment like I don't know museum or aquarium and just have a little like

Casey 32:17

See, okay, that's something that we're trying to do at this point is like near our house. We have this big, beautiful park with these, there's a, there's one particular tree that has a branch, this big thick branch that sticks out just completely parallel to the ground. And we've both walked by there and been like, all right, we need to come out here cause this isn't a neighborhood. This isn't like the suburbs. Right. Yeah. And so we're going, all right, we need to come out here. With a couple of ropes, I'm going to go ahead. We're going to have a jacket on you. You'll have, you'll be tied up with whatever harness we're going to use right then and there, and we'll just toss a couple of lines around the tree. I'll pull you up. We'll snap some photos and we'll get out of here before, you know, Nancy next door is like, what the hell are these people doing?

Kari 32:55

I don't know. I've been seeing like light posts lately that look appealing. I'm like, Hey, that's a thick over there.

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 33:02

there? Yeah. Yeah. I'm not, that's a regret. Uh, where I was living in Montana, there, there was this there's this river trail and it has just. At a certain time of year, uh, when the lights start coming on, there's just like this perfect line of like, of like lights that just all have, they all got like beautiful orbs and we had this dream of like tying them to a lamppost and having this like beautiful picture and then it got too chaotic, like packing for moving and we didn't do it. So there's this like, it would have been beautiful. Yeah. Lamp posts are great. There's more lampposts. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Casey 33:35

that's where I'm at right now is I'm like, I want to learn some vertical ties and figuring out I've been watching the videos to be like, all right, how do you create this? How do you create that? What do I, what would be the dynamic here? How does that kind of play out in my head? So, Oh, that'd be a cool one to see. I know that we've seen, and you guys, as I've said before, you y'all's content, some of the stuff that y'all shoot is aesthetically like insanely pleasing. Y'all do really, really good work. I know I've seen a lot of artists out there that do some really amazing suspension work out in public places or in a, in other private areas that we've been, we've been very envious of. Cause we're still like, I mean, I consider us babies and this whole journey, we're not even a year in,

Kari 34:14

I'm not very good at it. We'll get a little bitch about it.

Casey 34:18

Sometimes I'll put harnesses on Carrie where the second that I pull her up, she's like, Nope, Nope.

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 34:25

Yeah.

Kari 34:26

defense. I'm like, baby, I'm a thick bitch. Like I am not this. And like, I feel like that's one like disconnect. That's my, that's a me thing. I understand that. But I see these like cute little size, like twos that are getting tied up. I'm like, love that for you. But like, I'm like a home, I'm like one 85, like I'm not small. And, and so I'm actually kind of curious because earlier you had said that you have tied like all shapes and sizes. So are, are there like, Certain like ties or harnesses or whatever that you would necessarily use for someone that is thicker. Like, I imagine the body shape

Casey 35:01

has come into play. I have to preface this question because I'm the researcher of the two of us. He is. And we're, we came into this interview with, with like, I know about you guys. I did my research. I did, I did. I did my research. Let me think about Carrie likes to come into interviews with being like. I want to, I want to learn as we go, I've seen some snacks. I know that I've seen some of the stuff that you've done with, uh, more full bodies, uh, and like, I, I am curious that draws in like, how does, how do the, how do the harnesses change between bodies? How do, how does the, the work to put pressure in various points change from body to body for you?

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 35:43

Yeah, uh, well, I'll say like, like, Carrie, you said a thing about like, you, you're doing actually, between the two of you, like, that's really, to say like, hey, this, this isn't like, nope, this isn't working, like, that's like, top level, like, essential and awesome because like, you are the direct feedback, uh, to Casey's, like, to, to the tying and like, if something isn't feeling well, you're the one that's gonna know, like, that's part of the mystery of the person tying is you're like, Oh, I'm tying it the way I think it's going to go, but like, I don't know how it feels on you, and it might visually look like it's going to be great, but maybe this pressure point right here is really awful, and you need to change that. Yeah, you saying that is you being a good bottom, just because you can't do a certain thing doesn't mean you are bad at being a bro. That just wasn't the tie for you. Yeah, and yeah, so like, uh, I think when we talk, when, again, when we talk about like, we're tying bodies, not, uh, rope We, we have those structures, and I think, uh, part of what happens when you're tying a bunch of different bodies is, uh, learning a willingness and being prepared to, to move and change and adapt things and know that, like, Yeah, like a pattern isn't a fixed item in time like the way I tie like a box tie is going to be completely different on every person I tie it or the way I tie even like a diamond harness is going to shift depending on like how it fits around the body and how it moves on the body So I will usually just like, I'll work with people in terms of like asking, like, do we like pressure like here? Do we like pressure here? Are we, do we want more pressure in our, in our waist or in our hips? Like, and kind of moving through that kind of stuff. And then it's like, it is that trial and error, like I might tie, I have some people I tie things with and they're like, I hate this. Can we tie it again? And you just, yeah, of course, let's like, let's figure out what, what maybe what specifically in there wasn't working. So we can like try this, something else with this or move through a different idea and have that give you more support here. But it's a lot of experimentation and being, like, willing to step away from, uh, as the person tying, being willing to step away from, like, a fixed idea and allow that to, like, adapt and, like, mutate into whatever it's going to move into.

Kari 37:46

I love that. So it's just more about like fluidity and like communication then.

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 37:50

Yeah, and also, like, I mean, goals are really good and I think it's, I think it's healthy to say, like, I really want to be in this shape and I really want to do this. And... I would say across the board, like everybody can basically do everything within the limits of like what your body can actually your personal body can physically do. Like, I love like the strapados, but I have weird, like, nervy circulation stuff. And every time I'm tied in these, I get fainty and I'm going to. Like throw up so I can't do like personally, I can't do those, but they're beautiful and I wish I could. There's probably a way to adapt that to me. I just haven't figured it out or found a person by that. So I think it's like, uh, there's someone I was in a class recently and someone said, like, it's. important to listen to your body and know that we are changing day to day. And sometimes the thing you want that day is just not something your body is able to deliver for you on a specific day. And it might mean that like tomorrow. Great. It's like, but giving yourself that grace as the person being tied is, is so, so important.

Casey 38:56

Yeah. And so I love that because I'm going to speak to that real quick. My background is anatomy and physiology. So that is stuff like what you're, what you're saying. Hey, I'm going to clarify a definition for the listeners. Uh, whatever we say, the Strapato. We're talking about having it's on camera and everything, but hands directly behind like straight hands directly behind the back. And, you know, with them pulling together, uh, look up some images online because the, the, the tie is, is absolutely beautiful, but it's easy to see how it can affect your shoulders. It's easy to see how it can affect the circulation and the elbows and everything else. So that's, that is interesting. But one of the things I want to touch on is that whenever you talk about having like your, your, your mind in a position, can you do a tie on one day versus. The next day speaks a lot to where we carry our stress as the nervous system is taking in all of these outside forces and adapting to them. We carry that stress within our anatomy, within the musculature of the body. And you're going to have range of motion affected. You're going to have the way that those nervous structures are sensitive affected. So one day somebody might be able to be in, to put into a TK. And for those that don't know what a TK is hands behind the back where you're, you know, Grasping your elbows just about and opening the shoulders up. You could do that one day, but the next day you may not be able to. And it speaks a lot to like, where's your mindset for that day? Where is, how is your body reacting to the world around it? And can you do these? So I love that you even touch on that. Cause that speaks to the whole thing of if you can't do it on one day, like just. It's better to be okay with it and learn to accept it and just move forward and try something else versus getting frustrated. And, you know, as there's been times that you've

Kari 40:34

been trying to get me in a tie and I'm like, no, not happening today. And then other times it's fine, you know? And so to actually hear that that's kind of okay, honestly, as a bottom, that like kind of makes me feel

Casey 40:45

better. That's how it's helped us both in this journey. Because I, rigger, I've, I've been sitting back and being like, I'll start to get frustrated. Cause I'm like, what am I doing wrong? Or I'll be like, man, I really, really wanted to get this harness in today. Like what's going on, what's happening. And so figure out, Oh, Oh, it's nothing that we're really, we're not doing anything wrong. It's just, we're not in a position to do it right now.

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 41:08

it was, it was a pitfall for me when I started out. Uh, with one partner, I, we would like. Set a goal. And, uh, if we couldn't achieve that, it let us feel like we had failed and we got really self defeating and it would lead to frustration. And that was kind of a learning moment for me to take. Like, I think we can set goals, but like, again, like the willingness to say, like If we start down this path and it's not working, like, how can we adapt and continue to play with this, even like when we're trying to figure out practice and patterns, like, in, I don't know if it was the Shibari study video that you watched of us, but there was a moment where you like, we tried to go into a sequence into like a transition and they just kept rotating the other way. And I like, stop. And I was like, Wow, you're really not here for this today, huh? So like, let's like, let me just like, You change from there, you like acknowledge that like, sometimes things don't work, and when they don't work it doesn't mean that everything is over, it means that you have like, a, a countless number of other options and fun ways to like move something and, and change and those will all be just as beautiful and unique and different and are worth exploring.

Casey 42:15

Which, I mean, that's the beauty of diving deeper into it to be able to adapt during those moments, because if I'm someone that's, that's, you know, younger in the practice and being like, all right, well. That's the only harness I really had. That's all I had. That's all I had in my toolbox. I don't really know where to go from here.

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 42:33

Yeah.

Casey 42:33

So then, then my question for you guys, if. A, and this is for both top and for bottom if you were wanting to get into something like this, where would you suggest they start?

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 42:46

I even Sari study I think is great, uh, for self-learning to tie and they're adding more bottom focus, uh, information on there too, which is really great. Uh, that's a great website to sign up for. If you're wanting to review stuff at home I, it also is incredibly helpful and important to find in person and communal spaces. And usually if you just jump on places like FetLife, uh, which is a website, you can, there's going to be places, uh, advertised. Uh, we just found out about this app called Bloom that has been like pretty interesting for local events and postings. It's like a, yeah, it's, it's almost just like a, it just aggregates like fat life events. It feels like, but yeah, like finding community gathering spaces, like attend a munch, look for, if you're in a city that has a rope space, like, like Austin, New York, Denver bigger cities have places. They usually have open jam nights or beginner nights, like showing up and just. being willing to like, it's terrifying when you don't know how to do a thing and you show it for the first time, but like being willing to take that chance, like is usually going to be worth it. Or yeah, if there are providers in your area, like, uh, find professionals who can like give you that experience or teach you and book them for their services as well. Yeah. Maybe that, sorry, it covers all that yeah, and ask questions, like ask people questions. I think most people on the internet are surprisingly friendly, uh, even though everyone looks like they're like big, scary, and like fake famous most people are pretty, pretty willing to talk about this kind of stuff.

Casey 44:20

That's what we always learn, right? We have this, these degrees of separation. They just, we just reach out. It's always a no until you ask. So then Ayala, if, as a bottom, do you have any resources that you suggest for people to, to learn what it's like to participate on that side of things?

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 44:38

I would, uh, say all the same things that Snacks has with just the additional information of if you are going to uh, tie with someone that you haven't met before, uh, make sure you just do what you can to vet them and make sure that they're safe people to tie with.

Casey 44:59

absolutely. We've discussed that a lot in the past is red flags to look out for how to vet someone steps that used to go through to make sure that you're, you're being safe and secure and you can place your trust. That's a big thing. We had. A good friend of ours who was one of our first episodes we ever did on Shibari come on. And I think the thing that he said is he was like, do you understand that you're completely helpless being tied up like this? If I was, if I, of course this was just like for safety purposes, but they were like, if someone wanted to, they could, you're in such a vulnerable position that they could just do as they please. So please, for your own sake, bet these people out, find out. That you can trust them, find out the best ways that you can, that you can get around some of that stuff. So I love that you just kind of reiterate that purpose and it, and it just echoes a good, a good, safe message. So we appreciate that quite a bit. So let's see, I'm trying to think of what other questions I have. If someone wanted to like follow you guys, subscribe to your content, see your content, or even work with you in person, how would they do that?

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 46:05

Yeah, they can, they can, uh, you can find me, I have a website, uh, it's, uh, notsnacks. com, uh, K N O T. S. N. A. C. K. S. dot com. And there's a way to, you can request sessions for me. I do private one on one sessions, lessons, photo shoots. But once you kind of like get like my vetting that I have to do, then we will talk details. I have a consent worksheet. I give people to fill out. We kind of have a big conversation about what the space is going to be like. And you can find me on Instagram that way. They're on all platforms as, uh, Ferriere. That's F A E R I E R E.

Casey 46:44

Love

Kari 46:44

it.

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 46:46

yeah. I got it from Derriere.

Kari 46:48

Yes.

Casey 46:49

I figured as much, but I like the

Kari 46:51

confirmation. I love it.

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 46:54

But yeah, you can find yeah, our, like, our pretty, like, safer work, real content is on Instagram in most places. If you're looking for more explicit stuff, we both have OnlyFans and and all that other stuff and Twitter and yeah.

Casey 47:07

We encourage you to seek them out. Find their, find their stuff, y'all do beautiful work. Y'all like, I honestly, like you're on camera. Camera chemistry is fucking fantastic. Y'all know he'll send me something

Kari 47:18

and he'd be like, we need to do this. We need to be as playful as they are. And I'm like, okay, that is fucking cute.

Casey 47:23

It was, y'all had just posted one. I don't know if this was on your Twitter or if this was on your Instagram, but it was one, Oh my God, I'm trying to like sit here and describe it and it's, I'm already losing it. It was one y'all did recently. Yeah, it was recent. Uh, where it was, or it was, it was just a very like. I'm not even going to fucking go into it. You know what? I'm going to find it later and I'll,

Kari 47:43

we'll tag out to it, but

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 47:45

I'd be happy to give you some pointers in terms of like movement and, and how to like kind of incorporate that into play too,

Kari 47:51

yeah, I think that's one thing that we're looking to do is learn how to do it and then make it as like fluid and beautiful as y'all make it because right now it's more just like, ah, and where do you want my fucking hand? And I'm supposed to do what? Don't touch the rope, you know, so that's, that's where we stand right now, but eventually it'll be this beautiful thing that y'all create.

Casey 48:11

We do better. We do, we do fairly well for ourselves. We're getting there. You do better than I do. We're growing all the time.

Kari 48:18

I'm just a fucking brat. You do better than I do.

Casey 48:20

That, but I mean that, that is our dynamic. That, that you're brat to my Dom. Yeah. 100%.

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 48:27

Well, this might also be a good, uh, time to mention, like, a lot of people have this goal of seeing a suspension, for example, as, like, that's the goal and that's what we need to get at, but there's so much fun and, uh, keeping it simple and like, we like to talk about like one rope things a lot. And just finding the fluidity in there.

Casey 48:54

absolutely. Like some of those simplistic ties, especially using just like, foreplay using breath play. These are various ways that you can get in and dive in deep with each other and a very intimate setting without trying to create something where it's like, all right, ready? I'm going to pull you up off the fucking ground. Here

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 49:11

Yeah.

Casey 49:15

So we were, we were super, super appreciative of, of that. Added point because we're absolutely on board with you. Honestly, like you guys have been amazing guests today. We are, we, we love having you on and we've been excited about this interview. We, we think that everyone that has ever been interested in any sort of rote play should listen into this. Seek you guys out and then just start down the rabbit hole because once you start, you'll find it very difficult to stop. I can promise that.

Knot_Snack_and_Faerie-Snacks___Ayala-webcam-00h_00m_00s_192ms-StreamYard 49:43

Thank you. Oh,

Casey 49:47

of come with Casey, we are your hosts. I'm Dr. Casey Sanders and I'm Carrie Sanders. I'll see you next time.