Contract? What Contract?

Join Kari and Casey as they discuss the benefits of pre-game boundary setting, and why most arguments occur.

Mentions in this episode

Nightshade Burlesque

Sexual Health Alliance

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Kari 0:00

Well, here we are another episode. And this has been such a great month for us, beginning of the year. January of

Casey 0:07

2024. It's been great. We've seen a lot of people that are not happy already with 2024. I know, and I

Kari 0:13

feel so bad for them because I'm over here like, Dude, this is fucking great.

Casey 0:17

We're sorry you're dealing with that, but however, Yeah. We are enjoying 2024 so far. We've booked some new stuff. We've learned some new things. We've planned some new things. I mean, we have a lot going

Kari 0:29

for us. I think this is going to be a good year. Not just because you will be closely finishing within your SHA, but because I'm like newly starting it's just, you know, I changed my schedule behind the chair. You have a new schedule yourself. Like we're going to get into this whole new flow and I'm honestly super excited for it.

Casey 0:49

It's been good. What are some big changes that we're going through right now? Oh, I booked a shoot for the next couple of weeks. I'm excited. You'll hear more details about these for these photographers and their studio as we get closer. But this was just recently booked. So I'll be going in and doing acting as a rigger to tie up some some boudoir

Kari 1:09

models. Dude, it's actually a really cool gig that you got signed up for because it's yes, you get to be the rigger, but we've never experienced having 10 photographers around us at the same time. That's gonna be kind of

Casey 1:23

cool. Well, there's definitely a difference between having where we go to a photo shoot. We have some fun. We're playing around. This is more of like. Getting out there and getting a bunch of photographers at once. I've done

Kari 1:34

something like this in the past where all these photographers met up and we had models and I ended up being one of the models, but we, I've experienced something like this before. And it was a fucking blast, but for us to get to experience this through you tying. That aspect of you tying is new. How do you feel about like 10 people around you just shooting? Like all you're going to hear

Casey 1:58

is see this is exciting For me mostly because yeah, like what you're saying, I haven't done a meetup before with a whole bunch of photographers. So it's going to give a lot of experience to that. And then working with multiple models at the same time. Including you are going to be one of them. So we're going to have different people coming in. So working with different body types, working with different ties. The planning is what I'm most excited about. Really? Yeah. We were, I mean, you know, we were just at lunch and we were talking about what ties do you want to do? How intricate do we want to get? Like, what's going to be the most time efficient? What's going to be the most like best way to express this person's body type with these ties. Exactly.

Kari 2:35

And that's one of the things that I liked the most about when they had reached out to us. It was almost one of the first things that they said is that we're looking for different body. They wanted body diversity for sure. Yeah. Which is fucking finally, I don't know. I just, I love that they said that like they didn't have to lead with that. It's a Bajor shoot with ropes with you. And they're like, Hey, but don't just have this be like the average, let's get some unique uniqueness in there. And that's kind of what we just discussed at lunch is like, this is their body type. How can we accentuate. That type and then

Casey 3:08

vice versa. Well, so for example, we were talking about you, you got a big old booty. I got a big old ass. So we were like, all right. So what sort of harnesses can we make along like your lower half to really draw attention? It's going on. How can we take that sweet ass that you have? Stop it. I swear to God. And put a tie on there to make it look even better than it already

Kari 3:27

does. Yeah. No, I love that. We're super excited for this shoot. And like, this isn't our first, it's not going to be our last. We do a lot of stuff like this and more that we're wanting to start sharing, you know, with y'all through, through the show and everything

Casey 3:40

else that we're doing. So stay tuned for that. I mean, you know how big we are and especially the fact that there are being more a body diverse, you know how much we are in a body diversity, which is, we've got that coming up with nightshade as always. As

Kari 3:53

always with nightshade. And so again, nightshade burlesque, you've heard us talk about it a hundred times over. It is the first Friday of every single month, and this month is the first time that they're having a live band at. Cicada.

Casey 4:08

Yes. We, they've done live bands before, whatever they performed at tulips. Yes. This time they're doing it at a cicada. I'm excited to see how it goes. So

Kari 4:17

I even got to see a little bit of a tease earlier with one of the girls that we follow. You probably just happened to miss it, but it showed like the entire band and her like living room while they're doing practice. like, Oh my God, I love this. It's so cool.

Casey 4:30

I know what you're talking

Kari 4:30

about. Yeah. It's this like, and actually I'm not gonna say what it is. I'm not going to, but I think it's really cool. To have like a live

Casey 4:37

man that was like the band for those performing. I thought that was just like a random thing. I was like, Oh, y'all just have random jazz bands performing in your living room. Okay.

Kari 4:47

But yeah, so we're super excited about that. And you know, it still holds, we have two seats available for nightshade burlesque. This is your absolute last week to enter in two seats. Yes. Complimentary. Like we've already paid for it. You come be our guest, hang out and see the performance. So again, you have to email come with Casey at gmail. com that's C U M W I T C H K C. At gmail. com, but that is the only way to enter and just you know She has an email that says hey me and my partner or me and my friend or whatever. Yeah want to be there we got the seats. We got the table. We got you covered. It's going to be a great fucking show as always Yeah, I love when you just stare at me. So let's go into the show today because what really brought into Our topic was something that you got to hear on your over the weekend. Yeah, that's right.

Casey 5:44

So over this last weekend as I do a few times a year, I hooked up with the, with these, with Shaw, the Sexual Health Alliance, which Carrie and I are both students of. I am on their counselor track. Carrie is on their coaching track so we can help bring you guys more authentic. Discussions and advice for our clients versus just doing it from personal experience, which is most of what you see out there. That is a ramp for a second, please. I do not know that I S I promise you, I'm going to God, this is going to be bad. I'm going to sound, I'm going to offend somebody right here. I'm getting very tired of the marketing. Coming from people that's like the reason that I am a coach is because I didn't orgasm until I was 25, 30 years old. So therefore, because I learned how to, now I can show everyone else how to.

Kari 6:32

In my opinion though, and I'm like, I've been orgasming since 14, like I actually probably know more about orgasm than you do. If you didn't, until you were 25, like, I just, I get your point. Like what makes you this like scholar of opinion when it just happened to you? Well, a lot of

Casey 6:50

times those people that are, I've experienced something like this, they'll go and they'll start their research. Right. And they'll go through until they find something that works for them. So like it's dip for me to do it. I've never done it. So now I'm going to try this. And I'm going to try this. I'm going to try this. I'm going to try that. So now they're holding onto all that stuff. They found the thing that works for them. And so now it goes, well, now from my personal experience, same thing with other married couples that you're like, Hey, we coach. Couples for essentially marriage coaching. Yeah, but all of that is based upon personal experience. We wanted to take it a step further. Yeah, and add academia into it. Exactly.

Kari 7:23

Like we do have a lot of experience. Of course, we've been together forever and we've been through a lot, but that's not enough for me to sit there and say that, like, I'm going to confidence. Aspect of marriage. I know our aspect of marriage, but I don't know everyone's. And so it was super important for us to like educate ourselves further to one, be more beneficial to our clients. But also I think set us aside from some of the

Casey 7:50

standards. Well, I had a friend of mine that had made a video not too long ago and I have high respect for him. He's actually a chiropractor. I think he's in Florida and he was talking, he was like, out of all the things that are out there and all the things that work, there's things that work for you, but they might not work right now. You might not be in the place for this thing to work for you. And it might be a very popular thing at the time he was talking about. I think ice baths and like cold plunges and being like, that's a great thing and it has a huge health benefits, but it may not be what works best for you right now. So that was part of what we're saying is be, we don't want to just. Give you advice off personally, I think in part that's irresponsible. We wanted to add another layer to it to make sure that we're up to date on everything that includes like journal subscriptions to highly accredited sex research journals and making sure that we are continuing education students and making sure that we're learning from the top researchers in the field. So we can figure out the best ways, not only the best information to deliver, but the best ways in which to deliver it. So that's. My little rant for that period, but this whole weekend, this past weekend, I was on with sexual health Alliance and we were talking a lot about we were talking about a lot about sexual fluidity. So the whole purpose of the weekend was about overcoming like, I would think it was like going from sexual trauma to sexual triumph. And we talked about a lot about abuse. We talked about child abuse. We talked about trauma. We talked about sexual fluidity. We talked about what it would like, what, Oh God, what was the, one of the big ones that we had talked about? We talked about Sexual orientation versus erotic orientation, which we're going to do an entire episode on this because it deserves an episode. It was so great. And I'm not even going to go into a lot about what it is. The only thing I'll say about it is that it's the difference between saying the orientation that you have of who you're attracted to in terms of all that versus acted to in terms of things that arouse you, such as pornography or Or readings or things and what that centers around. So that was an interesting one. But the quote that you're talking about, right? So

Kari 9:56

like you came to me. This is probably Friday or Saturday. Oh, this is Sunday evening. Oh, was it really? Okay. So you came to me with this quote. And I'm like, that's an amazing fucking quote. Like that could be an entire episode. So here we are making it an entire episode. What we're talking to you. Memorize the quote.

Casey 10:18

I believe I need to like, I think I have it. I can read off my notes. I can paraphrase it. We have been talking. You and I have been having discussion about boundary setting and about discussions and relationships. And we were listening to Dr. Joe court. Who is, who was doing this whole week in disgust and he actually quoted Dr. Marty Klein, there's another person that we're highly respectful of who had said something along the lines of like, whenever it comes to couples, most arguments around boundaries, most arguments are about contracts that no one ever made. If you want to, if you want to say anything on to like what the actual code is,

Kari 10:56

but I mean what I have written down is yes, most arguments amongst couples center around breaking contracts that were never

Casey 11:03

written. Yes. So for the most part, what we mean by that is. Is that a lot of people go into relationships, long term relationships, and you have these assumptions about what your boundaries are, the sexual values of another person, or what the boundaries of the other person might be. You never have these discussions around, is it okay to Like what is flirting mean to you and what's okay and what's not

Kari 11:28

okay? I mean, I can look back at our relationship and we never sat down and I wouldn't have even thought to have that conversation. Honestly

Casey 11:35

No You know into it making those assumptions. Yeah, we're all everybody has been so and to be like This is the way that love works And this is the way that relationships work that from the perspective of someone that has been just driven through that narrative from a young age You don't know anything outside of that I think to ask the questions of, does this person have a different perspective on various acts than I do or what it means to do these things. So one, like a personal example that we had from early in our relationship, which we've talked about on the show before is like you making out with friends, same sex, but making out with friends.

Kari 12:12

Yeah. That was not something that we had ever discussed, but in all honesty, I never thought that I needed to. But that was just my ignorance to our relationship, to our own boundaries. Because again, I broke a contract that I never knew we had written.

Casey 12:25

You had never made that contract. I never said I couldn't make out with my friends. But it wasn't anything you had never asked. Like, Hey, are you okay with this? Is this something that, that bothers you? And we have to, we have always have to reiterate that it's not boundaries and stuff like this aren't necessarily about the other person, you, if like. this is what I say. How does that make you feel? I enjoy going out and making out with my friends. How do you feel about that? Is that something that

Kari 12:55

bothers you? And like I said, I just, I never would have even thought to ask that. Yeah. And I think that's why this is such a, an important topic to discuss because this doesn't happen at the beginning of your relationship. This can happen at any point of your relationship. It should

Casey 13:10

happen all throughout your relationship. Yeah. At least the discussion on it. Yeah. But it absolutely, you can for years and years and you have this continuing argument and you don't realize that you never even had the discussion about is this, how does each of you feel about this particular act, this particular subject and the same way you have so many people that go into therapy where one person approaches the therapist and says, my partner has a problem. I think that they're a sex addict, which if you've listened before, you know, that we firmly believe that sex addiction does not exist. But they'll go into them and say, well, my partner watches porn a lot.

Kari 13:45

Well, I mean, honestly, this was an issue that we had. Yeah. This was an issue we had early on in our relationship. It was, we had never discussed porn. And so when I was on your computer and I found a bunch of fucking porn, I was like, What the fuck dude? Exactly. And again, obviously, no, I didn't handle that well, but that was me feeling like you broke a contract. That we never even discussed. We had never had that discussion. And so sometimes it's like, you don't know what you don't know. So it is hard to like pre plan these type of discussions, but what we hope that you gain from this conversation is to realize that you do personally have boundaries for your relationship that you have might not disclose to your partner. I don't give a shit how long you've been together. There are certain aspects that. You are not okay with that. Maybe you and your partner have just not come across. Yeah,

Casey 14:42

you have those built in decisions that you've made that you've set boundaries for yourself for, but you don't, you've never had the discussion with the partner and you haven't come out and said, listen here's what I enjoy and we need to have a discussion around that or. Here's what I'm bothered by. And we need to have a discussion around that.

Kari 15:00

And I guess I brought up like, you don't know what you don't know because sometimes situations arise and you don't know how you're going to feel about it until you're in it. That's when we talk about relationship check ins. Having that time to sit down and say, which I do feel like, let's go ahead and bring in that point. And it was another quote that you had received from this weekend. Do you, if you already know what I'm talking about, then go ahead and quote. I'll do what we wrote down earlier. So, it was saying that giving the safe space to hear something that they may not. Want to hear so if you're bringing oh, okay. Oh, yeah. Yeah, right. You're bringing something to me Knowing that I might actually be upset with this but as a receiving in from the person that's hearing that message

Casey 15:48

So the rest of that quote is centered around how can I expect my partner to be honest with me? well the answer to that is your partner is going to be as Honest with you as they see and your reactions to hearing something. You don't want to hear Clarify. If I were to come to you, Carrie, and I told you something that maybe I'd done or I was interested in, or I thought about and your reaction to that is very negative and it creates argument and it's handled in a very like emotionally negative way, me. And this is most people, this may be conscious, this may be unconscious, but now you're going to second guess telling your partner things because you now know what don't want to create the conflict of that negative reaction. And you might have fear centered around that negative reaction. You might have frustration or anger centered around that negative reaction, but you no longer are going to be fully honest with them because now you're going, well, if I tell them they're just going to get. Pissed off about it, even if it's something that you don't know that where they, that they will or not, you're going to go and associate that last time of saying, I did this thing and I told you about it and you're actually flipped out on me now later. And even if it was like later on, it was like, no, it's completely cool, but the we hang on to those in the moment reactions. So in is that your your partner your is sorry, you are only going to be as honest as your partner's reaction to something they don't want to hear.

Kari 17:17

And so the thing with that is like, you can't, you don't get to know how you're personally going to feel about something that your partner tells you. You don't know how you're going to feel. But I think that whenever we talked a lot about relationship check ins. I think it's super important to say during this check in or during this next moment, say I would like to be able to be vulnerable with you and tell you something and that you may not love and you may not want to hear but I'm asking your permission to tell you. And I think that allows the partner. To have the opportunity to control how they feel. I think there's a difference between blindsiding.

Casey 18:05

Nobody wants to just be thrown something out of

Kari 18:07

nowhere. So if you bring something to your partner that they weren't expecting, and then they freak out and then you're mad that they freak out, did you give them the safe space to tell them something that they weren't ready to hear? Right. Or are you just blurting shit out? Right. So it goes both ways. Not only hearing the information, preface it with, Hey. I would like to have a check in with you. I would like to be able to talk with you about something and giving them the opportunity to not be incited by the information, like don't do it in the morning in passing and just like, let me tell you this, and then I'm just going to expect you to respond. Well, you can't do that either. So it does go both ways. That's why we've talked about like setting aside time for check ins because that is really important to allow both of you to be in the headspace that you need to

Casey 18:55

be in. And at the bare minimum of those. Just letting your partner, you want to talk about you want to talk about a subject. It doesn't have to be like, Hey, I need to tell you something. This is super serious. And this is relationship ending or anything like that. But it could be like, Hey, I'd like to set aside some time this evening whenever we're both free to just have a

Kari 19:13

chat. And let, and maybe that is about porn. Maybe that is like, Hey I've not disclosed this to you yet. This is something that I want to be able to feel comfortable to tell you about. It could be. Maybe masturbation. What if I came to you, Casey, and I was like, I'm going to do a relationship check in and let you know how many times I masturbate in a week. And to some, for you, you'd be like, that's fucking hot. But to another person, they'd be like, why do you do that? Yeah. Why do you feel the need to masturbate? You

Casey 19:44

have me, which is super selfish, by the way, it

Kari 19:48

is, but also understand the very beginning of our relationship. I got insecure when you would masturbate. Now we were so young. And I didn't know half the fucking shit I know now when it comes

Casey 19:58

to relationships. Which is one of the reasons we reiterate to people that they need to be educated on actual sexuality versus receiving the bare minimum that they do receive throughout, throughout, like, I don't know, middle school and early high school education that you need to have some. Further education on sex and sexuality and what that means for relationships. What is healthy and what's unhealthy because we have way too many people that are poorly educated than what sex is and what arouses people and how sexuality plays a role in people's lives.

Kari 20:31

But again, it's just. It's very important. And to try to sit down and have these conversations. I mean, what were some of the other examples we wrote down the flirting with friends, making out with friends, the porn, the masturbation is a big one because it is because it's subjective. Yeah. Flirting your opinion of flirting is not my opinion of flirting,

Casey 20:50

right? Yeah. If we're out and about and you're flirting with somebody like nowadays. If we have had the discussion around it, then that's a completely different story. But if it's

Kari 20:59

a, we'll have those discussions the night of we will do that ever. And no, and it's a great discussion. It's kind of playful and fun.

Casey 21:08

I'd be like, where's your head out head at tonight? Like I know I'm feeling in a outgoing, expressive mood. How would you feel if I was like flirting with someone?

Kari 21:17

And then we've also had nights where it was like, yeah, just us tonight. Like, let it just be us. And. I, again, I love those conversations beforehand. There is a drive to anywhere you go. You don't just levitate to the place you're going, right? Yeah. Like get in the, set those boundaries when you get in the car and figure out the type of night that you want to

Casey 21:38

have. Yeah. What are our goals for tonight? What are our sexual goals for tonight? What are our intimacy

Kari 21:42

goals tonight? Are goals? What are our active goals? What are our, I'm not really feeling very social tonight. I, and I would be more comfortable if you were with me or. I'm not feeling very social tonight, but I want you to go and explore and have a

Casey 21:53

great time, which is honestly great because we've had nights where we've gone out where I've been like super introvert, not as in a social mood, but I still want to be out and about. And that that drives into you being like, well, I'm like, but that allows you to be out and having fun and you don't have to turn to look at me and be like, Hey, is everything okay? Are you all right? What's going on with you? Or I can be like, no, I'm fine. I'm just sitting here, people watching because I love people watching,

Kari 22:24

but I love that though, because right. Most arguments amongst couples center around breaking contracts. They never written. They had never written that can still go to the day to day that go to the event that you're going to, because if we don't predetermine how we want our night to go or even discuss it, and I were to do something that upset you, I didn't know that was going to upset you. Yeah. And so that statement does not have to go to relationship as a whole, that statement can go to. When you go out, when, whatever mindset you need to be in for that day, like we don't want you to think of this such as like, Oh no, that statements again is just like a relationship as a, you know, a whole, no, this can be a daily conversation.

Casey 23:04

Yeah, it can be whenever it's necessary and how you deem is necessary is really up to you. A lot of those things going out, this especially speaks towards people that are maybe familiar with their attachment style. This is when we've talked about a lot in private has been, if you know, your attachment style and you're out and about with a partner and your attachment style becomes. Activated through whatever behaviors they're expressing as the person seeing it. So me as the person seeing it and experiencing it and feeling myself getting worked up and frustrated, if I know where my head space is at in that moment, then I can do things. I can use the activation strategies to make sure that it doesn't escalate into some sort of fight.

Kari 23:47

Can I ask you what would be just a very small example? Because I already feel like you're going into a topic. That's an amazing episode. Yeah, for sure. But what if you do find yourself in one of those situations? What would be a deactivating like

Casey 24:00

strategy? That one's interesting because you don't want to, if you start finding yourself getting into one of those places, you don't want to end the night because now you're taking away from your partners or partners experience whenever you're the one having the emotions. Yeah. What, and it may be results into some of their behavior and you need to be able to communicate that. You are seeing behaviors out of them that are activating to you. And so my, one of my favorite things to do. Is to actually if we're all step outside, I will, and this happens to me too, even outside of being

Kari 24:33

with me, I've seen you do, or all of a sudden you're like, ah, this is too much stimulation. I need to step out for a minute

Casey 24:38

that works with me, even if I'm being activated, like my, some of my anxiety is getting activated or something. But what I like to do is just step outside for a few minutes and take a few deep breaths and just kind of be by myself for a second and I think that's great down, calm down overthinking because as a lot of times we are a little bit conditioned to do is that we go towards worst case scenario. I see my partner being a little bit too friendly with, in my opinion, too friendly with someone. And then it's like. No, must mean that my partner wants to fuck him. Must mean that they're like, now what are they going to do? Go and exchange Instagram handles and start messaging each other. And now they're going to create some relationship behind your back. Your mind tends to go towards worst case scenario and steps away from logical. This is like, this could easily be just a friendly conversation. So if you remove yourself out of it and you know, work on taking about 10 minutes of just few deep breaths and kind of thinking through the situation of being like, Okay. We're not going to discuss it right now. We've shit. You should discuss it because you need to be able to tell your partner what's bothering you. But if you just take it to be like, look, stop thinking this is the worst case. This could be employee a little bit of stoicism of being like, I know that I'm not like the only thing I control right now is my own self. So let's focus on stop trying to reprimand my partner for their behavior and let me focus on controlling my own emotions and bringing myself out of that place. And I think that's

Kari 26:10

super important to be able to realize that, like, what can I do to calm the situation versus like, what can I do emotionally driven to elevate the situation? And then

Casey 26:23

Then you should be able to come back from that and go to your partner at the, at a time. Now, if you're out and about and you're all drinking everything, it's not a good time. Never. I don't care what you're doing, what it is, it's not a good time.

Kari 26:34

Never, ever. It's not a good time to have the discussion. No, you don't have a relationship check in when y'all have been drinking, you know, for the whole dinner or whatever. Like, that's not when you

Casey 26:43

do that. Yeah. Wait till the next day. Control yourself. Wait till the next day, because we can

Kari 26:47

all admit that if we have been drinking, that does alter our like ability to rationalize whatever information we're given. Not all.

Casey 26:56

Well, not only is it, does it inhibit my ability to. Properly communicate with you. It's going to inhibit your ability to fully comprehend and receive whatever language I'm speaking and appropriately respond versus emotionally responding. So it's important to kind of a wait a little bit, but you should be able to go to your partner and be like, okay, listen. So what happened was, you know, this is what I noticed. This is the behavior that I witnessed. And this is what kind of activated me. Maybe it's activating like your insecurity of being like, well, are, you know, are you. Who are you talking to? Why are you talking to them? What's going on over there? Versus like, why are you not spending time with me? I'm over here. I feel abandoned and alone. So you need to be able to express those at a time next day, whenever. It's in a better place to actually

Kari 27:44

discuss it. But which again, kind of brings me back to setting the tone for the night beforehand, if I know that we are going to go out, this is what we're doing. However, you are, or I are in a state of, I'm just gonna say neediness. Yeah, if I know that I'm going into a night with you where you're feeling more needy, that gives me the opportunity to give you what you need while fulfilling my own needs. But if I didn't know how you felt that night and you were feeling a little extra touchy, you're feeling a little extra needy or whatever, and I had no clue. And out of a fault of my own, I would be doing my own thing without the mental mindset of, Oh, Hey, this is what his needs are tonight. It's very important to have these like daily check. I mean, not daily, but like situational check ins on top of just relationship check. Yeah.

Casey 28:37

And it's the same whenever we're out with friends. And I mean, we've witnessed before another couple is where you have someone that we're hanging out with and maybe their partner goes off and they disappear for like 30, 45 minutes. And we're all just kind of sitting there. We're all having our talk. But you can tell that the partner is like is taken aback by their partner's behavior. It's something that should be discussed beforehand. Hey, like, here's what we're doing tonight. Like we're going to go out and we're going to hang out with these people. I would like to try to keep it in our group. We all go out and we have a good time setting those kind of expectations for the night, or at least. For the night and being able to openly communicate about them is key to making everyone has a good evening and it doesn't result in, you know, a fallout of any sort. And there

Kari 29:21

was a little bit of like advice and this was something that I had heard. You know, I'm just like swiping reels online lately. And I've been following a lot of like. Relationship, counseling, coaching, like pages, especially now that I'm in as SHA now. And there was one that I saw in a lady was basically saying like, listen, ladies, if you find yourself out with your partner and there are things that happen that do upset you. And it was saying like, from women and our perspective is if we don't say it, and if we don't address it. It's going to happen again, or I'm going to forget, or it's not going to be taken as serious because it wasn't in the moment. I really liked what she said. She's write it down. We all have notes in our phone. This doesn't have to be a blow up right then in the moment. We've been drinking all night. This upset me. I have the wherewithal to say, let me write this down. I know this needs to be a discussion, but this is not the time or the place because it goes right back to the quote that you had just said, given the safe space to hear something they may not want to hear a bar. It's not a safe space to hear something that you don't want to hear.

Casey 30:34

High energy with alcohol involved is not the space to have that discussion. Having said that, you have to find a balance because if you were to come to me the next day and be like, listen, here's a laundry list of all this, you

Kari 30:47

in the bathroom and you didn't ask me to go to the bathroom and I'm pissed. No, we're not saying like nitpick your partner,

Casey 30:54

some girl complimented you and you said,

Kari 30:56

how

Casey 30:59

dare you? It's like those reels online that you see. It's like how I expect my man to act and like throw their drink in their faces and all that. And you're going, no, that's a heavily insecure couple to be like, listen, if someone talks to you, you better like scream at them and tell them to fuck off.

Kari 31:16

But I think it's fair to. Hey, like we were out and I noticed that your hand went to the bottom of someone's back and you guided her into the room and that made me uncomfortable. It's okay to set aside time like that. And you could even say, you don't have to say I have a list of shit you did. You're going to say, Hey, in the morning when we are in a better headspace, I would really like to talk to you. Or if you already know that's going to set off your partner and they're like, no, tell me now. You can't wait until the morning and be like, Hey we woke up, like, I just, I kind of wanted to disclose some things that bothered me about last night and I didn't want to make it a big deal then because that is setting boundaries for the next time while not interrupting. The experience that you had the night before and I've done that. I've done that. And so there have been like, okay, this kind of bothered me, but this isn't the time or the place and have always thanked myself the next morning for not saying something in that night, because whether you realize it or not, it will be a fight.

Casey 32:16

Ooh, prime example. Oh, I thought of an example. One thing that we've seen in the past is people like we'll go out and we were in Texas. So we'll go out to bars or something where they'll have a dance floor and there will be people dancing and you're out with friends and there's stranger, whatever it is. You might be a couple where one of the partners is big on dancing and one of them is like, well, not me and the other partner in the moment is like, are you cool if I dance with this person? Yeah. You're putting a lot on your other partner for them to say yes, because it's in that moment. And if they are the person that's like, no, I'm not cool with that. Then it's great. Debbie downer, you know, we're just having a good time. It's no big deal. But then whenever they, if they do say yes, like it's kind of an expectation and you may be genuinely cool with that. That's okay. But then if it's something that you're not comfortable with and you're watching your partner out dancing with someone else and you're getting more activated and you're getting frustrated and then whenever they're done, you're just like, well, what the fuck was that? It's something that you can talk about the following day. Hey, listen, or even before you go out,

Kari 33:14

I was about to say, I said, that would have been a great example of, Hey, we're going out tonight, we're going to step in. Casey, I fucking, you know, I suck at two step in and you really wanted to dance, then that would be an opportunity before we even went out in the car, right on the way there for you to say, Hey, Carrie, would you be okay if I danced with another woman, like that would be setting the tone appropriately. And then if. You did something in the dance that made me uncomfortable that would, should be, in my opinion, something that was brought up in a sober,

Casey 33:50

I thought it was great up until you dipped her head between your legs. Yeah.

Kari 33:55

Her up in your face, you know, like that was all right. Like there is a time and a place to set aside. We're not set aside, but just to bring up the things that, yeah. It's

Casey 34:06

supposed to be in the safe. Nonjudgmental, where we have consent, comfort, and proper communication to

Kari 34:14

could be, like, the night before we go dancing, we had this conversation, you're like, Kara, I'd really like to dance with someone. I'm like, have at it. And then something upsets me. I'm now going to know that the next morning, I'm going to ask you. Do I have your permission to tell you something

Casey 34:29

that I'd like to talk to you about? I would like to talk to you about? Yeah. I'd like to talk to you about last night and kind of how that went. Are you up for that right now? Yeah. Yeah. It's really,

Kari 34:35

I, I think it's completely fair to get permission to tell something to the person that might upset them. Yeah. Because again, like just completely like blurting it out or blindsiding them, like you don't know what headspace they're in that time. And if you're the person that's receiving that, you come to me and say, Hey, care, I really want to tell you something. And I'm like, I've had the worst fucking day and this is not the time to tell me, give me that opportunity to tell you, you don't get to make that assumption. See, I

Casey 35:04

think that's actually a really good point and very clear communication from coming from you right now is to be like, Hey, if you want to tell me, if you need to tell me something, but you know, I'm not in a good head space, you don't get to make that call. Yeah, let me know that you want to talk to me. And then all in turn tell you like, Hey, I'm in the headspace for that right now. Or like, well, let's just talk about it tomorrow. Yeah. That's like, I actually really like that. I think that's fair.

Kari 35:27

You know, but then at the same time, if you were to come to me and say, Hey, I want to talk about it. I'm like, okay, let's talk about it. And then I blow up. That's on me. Yeah, because

Casey 35:37

now that's going to be, yeah I gained consent. I asked for the space to safely talk about something and that was met with that progression. Then it's going to be like, all right, well then why do I even bring this up?

Kari 35:49

But then why did I go through all this? Correct. And I love that we don't even need counseling. We just do this stuff. You just talk about everything. No but again, you understand that like. Really, at the end of all of this, in every aspect that we're talking about today, is communication. That's, if you are not communicating to your partner the things that's upsetting you or listening about the things that they want to discuss before you might go out, or having these relationship check ins, or the frickin first quote that we led with, that arguments Happen around breaking contracts that were never written that was never written because you didn't communicate it

Casey 36:29

Yeah, you never talked about it. You never talked about it. And there's gonna be a lot like we already said There's a lot. No. Yeah that you have to take them kind of as they come Yeah, cuz you didn't know that you needed to talk about it You didn't know that was going to upset you. That is our current reality is that we live in a Western culture. We live in a place that has kind of boxed in what sex is and what sexuality is. But we're in this transitionary period now of where sexual fluidity is coming into place. And a lot of sexuality is beginning to open up and learning how to navigate that with a partner. Can we just go back to

Kari 37:02

Roman times? Roman times of communication, sexual fluidity, everyone, fuck everyone in the streets, at parties, be who you are.

Casey 37:12

That's not how that

Kari 37:13

went. Just communicate about it. They didn't communicate and that's why they fell. That's not it. That is the reason that the Roman Empire is no more. Because they didn't communicate it, but they were right about their sexual

Casey 37:24

liberations. They your, their sexual liberations were not that.

Kari 37:32

I've seen Rome, the

Casey 37:33

show, I watched a TV show. Therefore, that's how it happened.

Kari 37:36

Like 10, 20 years ago.

Casey 37:39

I'll just show, you know, it was only the aristocracy that was really allowed to be a little bit more fluid. And even then, but we can do a whole episode. I'd love to do an episode on sex history.

Kari 37:50

Oh, I would love that. That's in one of our chapters on our notes on the ones that we want to do is the spectral history. The

Casey 37:57

problem with those episodes, they take. Like we have a ton of research under the belt about how things have evolved over many years. I got a ton of books that I've been through on, on, on the history of sex and how it's evolved over many years. I want to get an expert in here. I want to get, I want to do an interview with someone. Yes.

Kari 38:15

A guy that you're obsessed with. Oh, he's more religious.

Casey 38:19

Yeah, he's a religious scholar. He's a scholar of the Bible, not just religious scholar of the Bible is what he is. But I would like to get somebody in here that has like a ton of credentials behind sexual histories of various cultures. So if that's you, reach out to us.

Kari 38:38

Or you know someone, tag us, like let us know. Like I will ask anyone to be on this fucking show, I don't give a I don't care who you are.

Casey 38:46

We want to talk about cultures and history and how they viewed sex and sexuality. And there's a lot of things in there, especially leaning into like when it became not okay to be sexual.

Kari 38:57

Well, we have like five more minutes. Let's do our fun little so if you heard the last episode or last week's episode, we went over this like ick list, which I don't know where the term ick. I know where it came from, but I'm just curious as why is this year, the year of ick every like Instagram, Facebook, all I see are people like, Ooh, that's it. So I guess that's like a new fucking term. But, we got this, huh?

Casey 39:25

Said no cap. No cap?

Kari 39:28

What? What am I missing? Anyways. I'm not gonna tell you. Yeah, please don't. We got this book, and it was called The Ick List, and we got it from like, five below in passing in their like, Valentine's section. But it has been fun. It has been fun, but there's a lot of like, What if you are on a date and someone did this or would you like this or that? Right. And so last year, last episode, you heard me ask Casey questions. So now he's going to ask me questions. So

Casey 39:57

we're today we're playing, would you rather, and this is, would you rather go on a date with someone that this or that? Okay. Ready? Okay. I got it. Refuses to speak to any stranger. Or strikes up conversation with anyone within three feet of them. So which one would I rather? Yeah. Who would you rather be on a date with? The person that does not speak to anyone around them or the person that's only speaks like everybody else. I still

Kari 40:22

think I'd rather the person that like speaks to other people. Yeah. That's fun.

Casey 40:26

It creates a fun atmosphere.

Kari 40:27

Yeah. It's fun. Like. I don't know. I guess I would imagine 20 years later, you're to your partner like, well, you just shut the fuck up and stop talking to everybody. But I think if I'm like on a date, I would much rather be with someone that's like fun and outgoing and chatty and talkative. Hopefully

Casey 40:45

they would know in the moment be like, Hey, my interest level for sure should be here. Yeah. But there's nothing wrong with speaking to people around you. It just creates for more of a fun atmosphere. Okay. So, complains about dog fur or doesn't clean up after their pet. I feel like that one's a dumb

Kari 41:02

one. That's a dumb one. If you're gonna have a dog, you have to clean up for it and you can't complain about it. Like, then don't own pets. That's we're going to, we're

Casey 41:10

going to skip that one was dumb. So either someone that speaks very loudly, stop it. Or speaks in a near whisper

Kari 41:20

that was geared towards me. No if I have to ask you to repeat yourself, because I can't hear what you're saying, I'm going to stop. I'm going to I'm just not going to like speak the fuck up. I would rather me be like, Hey, turn it down. Then be like, what? What are you saying? What? What? And because most times if I'm taking someone out to a place, it's going to be a place that you better fucking speak up. Oh yeah? You know?

Casey 41:44

Go ahead. Okay, that's fair. So, would you rather go on a date with someone that spills food on themselves or trips over tree roots?

Kari 41:54

Three roots. Okay, got it. So you're walking

Casey 41:56

down the street and they've got

Kari 41:58

both of those are clumsy. Yeah. So what? I rather clumsy or clumsy. Got it. Yeah. Which,

Casey 42:03

which sort of clumsy? I

Kari 42:05

don't know. Like at least it doesn't make you look messy.

Casey 42:08

That's true. Yeah. I'd probably go with tree roots as

Kari 42:10

well, but like clumsy over clumsy. You're not giving me a lot to go.

Casey 42:16

All right. Let's see that leaves their food wrappers everywhere. Okay. Okay. Or refuses to eat in front of you. I think

Kari 42:23

I'd rather you just not eat in front of me. I

Casey 42:26

would go with food wrappers. I would totally disagree. No, if you're going to

Kari 42:29

be a slob, then like, then eat in your own time. Yeah.

Casey 42:34

I get that. But still at the same time with food wrappers, it's, we can have a discussion around it. And listen, you tend to leave your food wrappers everywhere. Please start picking up after yourself.

Kari 42:47

It around you. Would that be like

Casey 42:49

weird to you? I think they were like an alien or a robot. Do you not eat?

Kari 42:55

Okay. When do you eat? Where do you eat? Yeah.

Casey 42:58

With what? And then finally the somebody that snaps at the waiter or illegally parks in the accessible parking spot. I know Casey's. You actually don't.

Kari 43:10

So you would rather someone snap at the waiter? No, I don't know, because you get so fussy about people parking in

Casey 43:18

handicapped parking spots. Oh, I'm

Kari 43:19

fussy about it. I have never heard someone complain about one thing the most.

Casey 43:25

About handicapped

Kari 43:26

parking? Like, one topic, at least a couple times a week I hear you bitch about someone doing it.

Casey 43:33

That's because I see it a couple times a

Kari 43:34

week. But I get to hear about it every time.

Casey 43:38

Yeah, you do. You had to hear me vent a lot. I, most, one of the things I vent most about is driving. Driving and then gyms are probably my two big ones. You complain about so many

Kari 43:47

people in a gym. There's a lot to complain about when someone's in a gym. I totally get it. I'm just shocked that you're shocked.

Casey 43:56

My complaint around that stuff is about people that everyone else complains about. Hey, this person sits on their phone instead of using the machine and they sit there for like 10 minutes and you're waiting. You're like, okay, you could just not be on it. Okay, but I've

Kari 44:11

never heard you say that complaint. Your complaints are like, they set up a tripod and they're taking videos of themselves. I'm like, duh, you're in a gym. What the fuck else do you think is going to happen? Workout? People don't workout in a gym. They make videos of themselves. They show up, make videos and leave. And they leave. Like,

Casey 44:30

duh. Don't do that shit during peak hours. This is like the middle of people's lunch during the week. Go there. Yeah. That's funny. Like I go to a 24 hour a day gym. One content creator could go to that gym on a Saturday night or a Sunday morning or something and make stuff 30 days worth of content. Bring a couple different outfits and do different movements on different fucking pieces of equipment instead of having to set up your camera every single time you're in there. Yeah. And blocking people's use. I actually one girl and. That was using the, like, the leg the one that exercises your inner thigh muscles. But her tripod, instead of set up, like, to the side, was set up directly in front. Oh, come on,

Kari 45:10

babe. I don't, again, I just don't know why you're surprised by this stuff. It just, it floors me that you're shocked by this.

Casey 45:16

It's not surprising. It's not that It's

Kari 45:18

not. That's why I don't understand why you complain about it. I'm like, what? That's It's just common practice

Casey 45:24

now. What do you mean? It's again, it's not that it's surprising. It's something that I now have to feel, I feel like I have to be like aware of because I don't want to like get in. I don't want to like pass them in front of their stuff. I don't, I just want to do my own thing. If they're

Kari 45:42

an influencer, they already know how to cut your image out so you don't have to worry about it. They know how to

Casey 45:45

edit it. I love it. for siding with everyone else.

Kari 45:49

When it comes to gym stuff. Yes, babe. What gym do you go to? I do yoga. I don't go to a gym. Oh, that's right. But even more so like I'm not in it and I know how it is. You're in it. That's why I'm so floored that you're like focused on it. You're in it more than I am. And I know how it works. Like, come on, baby. Answer the question, though. You didn't

Casey 46:11

answer the question. Oh, no, I'd much rather them park in front of, or park in a handicapped spot. I feel like the handicapped spot that are out there.

Kari 46:19

Well, I don't remember what the other one was now. The hand, oh, the snapping. I think that if I were to snap at someone in a restaurant, it's probably because I can snap louder than would be appropriate for me to say something. I have, we talked about, I think we talked about this like

Casey 46:35

last week. We did and talked about how inappropriate it is to snap

Kari 46:37

at a waiter. I have snapped, but I would rather snap at, cause I can, again, I can like snap loud, then like. Hey, yo, or like, ma'am, super loud. But either way, it just kind of depends on where you're at. If you're in a quiet restaurant and you're snapping at someone. I'm in a loud space and I'm doing it to get your attention. I wouldn't see it that way, but at the same time, like I've never been a waiter. So I don't know. I don't know how I would feel about that. But you have. So if someone snapped at you, would you be like, snap at me? Absolutely.

Casey 47:10

It's so rude to snap at a, snap at surface. I'm trying to get your attention over here. Yeah. No, you don't do that. There's a million fucking other ways to do it. Don't do that. It's fair. You impatient

Kari 47:23

fucks. I am an inpatient person. I wouldn't call myself an inpatient fuck, but I am a patient. Like

Casey 47:30

they're going to walk by your tape. Not always though. And you know what? It's easy to be like, you can do it non verbally, super simple to do because they're looking. Okay. Now, if you have somebody that's so ignorant. As a surface industry that they're not even looking at your table, then I don't know what to tell you then, but I still don't think snapping at them is appropriate. Fair. I think we've covered everything today. Yeah, we have. Anyway, for another episode of come with Casey we are your hosts. I'm Dr. Casey Sanders and I'm Carrie Sanders. Thanks.