Imagine opening your heart and life to more than one person — sounds exciting, right? As thrilling as it might be, polyamory is a complex lifestyle that often requires navigating uncharted waters. Join us, Hunter and Butcher, on the Poly Pocket Podcast, as we unpack our experiences and lessons learned in polyamorous relationships, beginning with a candid chat about our recent date with a like-minded couple. We use this experience to explore how open communication is instrumental in recognising gut feelings and red flags, not just within the swinging community but in polyamory as a whole.
Now, think about how much does one share in a poly relationship? We bring in our thoughts on sharing information, where we vouch for transparency that provides general details without oversharing. As we walk you through a situation where a coffee date turned unexpectedly intimate, we underscore the importance of setting boundaries and maintaining communication, which are the bedrock of trust in a polyamorous setup. Pivoting to rules and boundaries, we delve into our personal experiences to highlight how these guide our relationships.
But what's the difference between rules and boundaries? We (fail to) clarify this often confusing aspect, whilst trying to emphasise the value of consent when sharing personal information. As we conclude this conversation, we take a moment to reflect on the purpose of our podcast, hoping to serve as a beacon for those navigating similar paths. In the end, whether it's discussing STIs and pregnancies or seeking approval from involved parties, everything loops back to the most crucial component — effective communication. So, whether you're already in a polyamorous relationship or contemplating it, let's learn, grow, and navigate together!
H&B x
Imagine opening your heart and life to more than one person — sounds exciting, right? As thrilling as it might be, polyamory is a complex lifestyle that often requires navigating uncharted waters. Join us, Hunter and Butcher, on the Poly Pocket Podcast, as we unpack our experiences and lessons learned in polyamorous relationships, beginning with a candid chat about our recent date with a like-minded couple. We use this experience to explore how open communication is instrumental in recognising gut feelings and red flags, not just within the swinging community but in polyamory as a whole.
Now, think about how much does one share in a poly relationship? We bring in our thoughts on sharing information, where we vouch for transparency that provides general details without oversharing. As we walk you through a situation where a coffee date turned unexpectedly intimate, we underscore the importance of setting boundaries and maintaining communication, which are the bedrock of trust in a polyamorous setup. Pivoting to rules and boundaries, we delve into our personal experiences to highlight how these guide our relationships.
But what's the difference between rules and boundaries? We (fail to) clarify this often confusing aspect, whilst trying to emphasise the value of consent when sharing personal information. As we conclude this conversation, we take a moment to reflect on the purpose of our podcast, hoping to serve as a beacon for those navigating similar paths. In the end, whether it's discussing STIs and pregnancies or seeking approval from involved parties, everything loops back to the most crucial component — effective communication. So, whether you're already in a polyamorous relationship or contemplating it, let's learn, grow, and navigate together!
H&B x
Hello and welcome to the Poly Pocket Podcast, the UK flagship podcast of polyamorism, cnm, sex parties and customized jewellery. Hmm, because for reasons that will become very clear very quickly, we were given very specific bracelets that were explicitly poached out some odd preferences of ours. And I am literally I'm still wearing mine now. It hasn't come off. It hasn't come off, because everyone needs to know that I like hobnobs.
Speaker 3:I think everybody knows that I love sushi.
Speaker 1:And someone out there has a real thing for soup. Remember that in a moment. Hello, I'm Hunter. I'm your friend, your bespoke jewellery-wearing friend, and Bircher is here. Bircher, you're smiling.
Speaker 3:I am. Yes, I know this is a rare thing.
Speaker 1:I know, and also we've got nothing to talk about in relation to football because your game got cancelled.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it did, although Arsenal men played pretty shit on Saturday night. But Arsenal ladies on the Sunday had a smasher, had a smasher, got one over on Chelsea. Well done girls. There you go.
Speaker 1:Enough of that. No more music, no more karaoke. So this week we are talking about I'm going to call it information flow. But how much do you tell your partners about your other partners? Which I will struggle with because I'm an information sharing evangelist by nature, but we'll come to that in a minute. First, though, don't look so confused, I will explain it badly later. But first we have this week's installment of Polyfiller.
Speaker 3:Yes, we do.
Speaker 1:Really I don't know what is wrong with you, varieties, the spice of life, and everything is wrong with me. Please proceed.
Speaker 3:It's just one catch up this week.
Speaker 1:One catch up this week the jewelry providers.
Speaker 3:Is that what we're calling them? Oh, oh, you see that it was Mr and Mrs soup. Oh, I was going to say Mr and Mrs hat and gardens. It wasn't quite. It wasn't quite that level, I think. Oh, maybe tomato and Okay, fine, whatever. We haven't got a name for them, basically because we had so much fun getting to know this particular couple on a date over. Well, him and I have quite a few cocktails, don't worry, hunter, I said as we walked out the door. I'm having two drinks and that's it. Four cocktails later. Please hold my hand, I cannot walk safely in these high heels.
Speaker 3:Then my sex party high heels. To be fair, that is true.
Speaker 1:But you've also said that you've been in sex parties while you were in those heels, especially in Amsterdam.
Speaker 3:That is true, yeah, although stairs are steep, fatima Gala, and the stairs outside the apartment, anyway. So we met this couple, who we've been talking to for a few months now, and they are in a very similar position to us in life, with similar responsibilities, etc. Which tends to mean that they are regularly struck down by some God awful disease not caused by anything sexually transmitted. Just like to make that perfect, yeah, day to day life.
Speaker 3:Just day to day life. Yes, so we finally managed to get a date in the diary and, needless to say, we got on like a house on fire.
Speaker 1:No, no, house on fire is not a good thing. We actually got on very well. Just, it's one of these weird phrases, it makes no sense. We had what? Three hours, and it just was not enough time.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, it was a roaring success, wasn't it? It was.
Speaker 1:They're lovely, they're entertaining, they're slightly bonkers in a way that I appreciate.
Speaker 3:And they know themselves. We had a very, very good conversations with them about how, in this lifestyle particularly let's use the swinging use case here let's take the poly side out of it but they were talking about how they've had more misses and hits in the sense of a success rate of people that they felt really connected with and things that had gone well, and they also were very, very keyed in to the symmetries within couples. So if they were to ask a question, how people, how both sides of the other couple, responded and they talked to quite an extent about sort of the red flags that they've had with other couples and just that sort of gut feeling thing and he was so honest around it as well sort of what he thought it was going to be versus what it is. But I have to say one thing that I really would like to call out is off the back of the podcast that went out today.
Speaker 3:And obviously they hadn't heard it, so they had no idea of where my headspace was around couple swaps and things like that. He was so well, they both were, but he in particular made it very clear that he liked me, yes, and that was nice.
Speaker 1:And it was nice to see because it's not just like little friendly, little you know brushes of the arm, that is all sort of affirmation, things, making sure is this okay, is this okay, is this okay? And you two were, you were very comfortable. Is it to help that he's gorgeous?
Speaker 3:I mean he is just yeah, he's my type down to the ground, really, isn't he? Yeah, yeah, yes, Sorry, but then I think she's your type down to the ground as well. Yes, also, yes.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it was just the headspace thing is the thing that gets me there. They were so considered where basically the same views use different language for the same world view. But it was very considered. There was no, none of this. I know people say it and I don't know if they know what they mean when they say it. But then they say, oh, go with the flow, work out, go along Usually recipe for disaster. It's like no, we have thought about this, we think these things, They've made mistakes along the way and this is what they say. They've all hit misses than hits. But they know where the heads are at. And yeah, I just really appreciate it. And yes, you two got all famously. She and I got all famously. She's fascinating. Well, they both are. Yeah, I didn't talk to them as much as you did because you know reasons.
Speaker 3:That was quite interesting as well because I think her and I have spoken a lot over the group, the online group that we have. Yeah. So I think her and I knew that we got on and it was like great, so it was kind of getting to know the other person, so to speak, for both of us, yeah, and that seemed to work out really nicely yeah.
Speaker 1:And also there's nothing like a little bit of peer pressure to get someone to use social media in a way that they were not expecting, so I found that particularly endearing.
Speaker 3:That's the least with intrigue A little bit.
Speaker 1:I didn't even know how to explain it. Basically I wouldn't. I wouldn't leave it in there. It's just intriguing. But, yes, a lot of getting to know people, a little bit of peer pressure, a few cocktails and so I'm getting to know you, and some customized jewellery, but made for an excellent night.
Speaker 3:Yes, mine says like oh no, I've already said that.
Speaker 1:Yes, you have.
Speaker 3:I'm so thrilled with it. Where is yours now? It's next to my bed. No, I'm really sorry. I'm going to have to scratch my ear.
Speaker 1:I'm leaving this in you actually hear the noise your ear makes.
Speaker 3:That's been.
Speaker 1:Honestly, it's ears. Nothing else. That's not the sound of orgasms on the way.
Speaker 3:I felt like it. Oh goodness me, that's been bugging me for the last three minutes, hi.
Speaker 1:Hi, I feel like even three minutes of silence in there. It's just parity. Yes, all very well, and we are hoping to see them again at some point.
Speaker 3:Yes, if we can all coordinate a date where someone's not dying, I mean, yeah, it's going to be difficult.
Speaker 1:Actually, this will be a nice segue into the main body of this week's episode, but there's the information you should share with your partner. So, of course, lady V is my polypartner in all this and she heard on the podcast that we were going on a date and she thought I hadn't told her and she got, quite rightly, a little bit miffed and then had to explain oh no, this has been three months in the making. It keeps on getting moved. So I'm sorry, I've, just like you, knew what was going on a date. I didn't forgot to say exactly when, because it changed so much could people kept on being ill.
Speaker 3:Well, we were even supposed to be meeting on the lunchtime, weren't we? We were thinking that we could fit it in around work schedules and stuff, and then that went to pot, because unfortunately.
Speaker 1:I'm really sorry. I got a job.
Speaker 3:I'm not complaining and thank you very much for the flowers you bought me earlier. You're very welcome.
Speaker 1:I would say it's been a weird week. It's been my first week back of work for like three months off and butchers being an absolute rock and be very, very, very supportive. So thank you.
Speaker 1:What I was going to say, though, about the not telling Lady V stuff is what do you tell your partners about your other partners? And it just it was nearly a natural segue. But yeah, what's all? How much information do you share? And there's like different categories of information to share. Isn't there what you have to share, what's good to share, what you can share, what you shouldn't share and what they don't want you to share? On both sides.
Speaker 1:I'm going to start with the first one. First, because it's an easy one, because there is an absolute muscle. It doesn't matter. What's going on is if there's like an STI or something like that, doesn't matter. You tell people, you tell them directly.
Speaker 3:Doesn't matter if you split up with somebody, doesn't matter if you hate them you, you still tell them, and what you don't do is get other people to take the fall for you. Like I say, don't do it through a third party.
Speaker 1:Do it directly. That one's easily done. That's me. What information is? What's the right for you, butcher? What's the right balance of information to share? What works for you personally?
Speaker 3:It's all about you About me or about the other partner?
Speaker 1:Oh, ok, let's do, let's treat this two different things.
Speaker 3:So about me, I'm quite, I think I'm quite an open book. So I think I'm generally, for me personally, quite happy for things to be shared, unless I've said explicitly don't share this about me or the the. And I guess this kind of comes with a. To me it's obvious, but it may be one of those things that isn't obvious to everybody is to not discuss too in depth my relationships with others. Okay, so to an extent, yes, because you know, for example, you told I can't remember if I told Lady V or you told her that I just split up with Tex and Tom, I think you did, so that's on you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I'm just, I don't know.
Speaker 1:You mentioned it passing, and then I had a conversation with her.
Speaker 3:I think that's what happened, but that's fine, because I mentioned it in passing.
Speaker 3:I think you just put a bit of context around it for her, because we were all supposed to be going out for dinner at one point and obviously that didn't happen. So she kind of had to have some information, have some information and so, yeah, I think it's. It's that anything that involves me and one of my other partners in depth I don't mind the sort of peripheral, peripheral things of you know, this is how their relationship is set up. So, for example, with you were to use mine and French fancies relationship as an example to somebody else to be like this is their current, not an example, but this is what their setup is. But that's understandable because it helps give a kind of indication of where you might be looking to land as well. Yeah, based on what capacity and all other things we have. That's very much like.
Speaker 1:it's very nonspecific. It's context, it's not content.
Speaker 3:If that makes sense, that's perfect yeah.
Speaker 1:But so this is quite easy to find what you don't share rather than what you do, because what you do is everything's fine until you get to a certain point of detail and it's like probably don't talk about the nitty gritty details, don't share information about our families, don't talk about you know what goes on in, whether it is the bedroom or not the bedroom.
Speaker 1:Although some people do, because some people get their rocks off on it, but my context then is I might French, francine, lady Viergina couple up in this conversation a lot, because there are more the stable part on the part of our polycule.
Speaker 3:Oh, that was a bit of a no, not true.
Speaker 1:Maybe I don't like labels either, but if I I might say, yeah, butch got on a date, they weren't here, they were there. I might I won't say, oh yeah, they did this specific thing. You know, in this position it's probably I don't know.
Speaker 3:Unless you've been provided a photo or video which?
Speaker 1:occasionally happens, it does occasionally. But I wouldn't share that information because that's private between you two and I don't think it's for me to share to a third party. I think it's different if you or French Francine share it with me, and I think it's, I think, between you and I. If I want to know, you would probably choose to tell me, because I'm asking and we have to have a certain amount of openness and trust between us, doesn't? But that doesn't necessarily extend to someone else, does it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, and but also, if it was something that I felt wasn't you know, it wasn't my place to tell you or I was questioning it, I would ask him, like, do you feel comfortable with me telling Hunter about this? I know that he has told me that he would not share any imagery of me with others unless he specifically asked me.
Speaker 1:Which seems again like you said, it seems obvious but, it's appropriate. It's not an image, it's not his image, it's an image of you, and that requires your permission.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but I think that extends to information generally as well, especially because we are in what could be considered a long term relationship. Now, yeah, there's certain bits of information that he will share and won't share.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which again seems perfectly reasonable.
Speaker 3:So I guess, yeah, is there a case of you share more based on the length of time that you are with someone?
Speaker 1:No, I don't think so.
Speaker 3:No, that's just considering it.
Speaker 1:I think the kind of stuff you share becomes much clearer because you have more examples, like if French Fancy has a colossal back catalogue of photographs of you and he's not shared them with anybody, then you're adding more into that use case, aren't you? For example, it's not colossal, but I don't know. I've only seen a few of them.
Speaker 3:You've probably seen the majority of it. To me, Well, it's because I asked for them. But again we have that agreement right.
Speaker 1:The point of this episode, though, is what do you tell your partner's partners? Or we can kind of say you can tell them general information, but not specifics, so, but I just remembered this scenario that probably triggered this episode coming up in the listings. It's in our plan, I should say, was I had planned to do something, and it was a specific thing I wrote in our shared diary. I'm going for coffee.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, yeah, yeah, it's going to be a meeting someone for coffee and then a few days later we turn to dinner. Oh no, no, it's lunch, sorry. And the assumption was it was going to be just coffee, just lunch, and then it turned into lunch and sex and there was a. How much do you tell? This is kind of the thesis. What do I have to tell you partners? Partner? Was it easier for you? And I know the answer is, we can ask the question anyway Is it easier if I just said I'm seeing X rather than I'm doing this with X, and I thought I was being helpful by putting detail in there, and you said I'd rather not know, because actually knowing and it changing is hard.
Speaker 1:The constant change makes it harder, doesn't it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it makes it harder to kind of settle off with, whereas, ultimately, if you're meeting up with somebody, the light not the light, but there is a strong possibility that you're going to have sex with them. So, therefore, what does it matter really? But in my head you were going for coffee and I think because you were seeing. Sorry, I think because during your time off from work you were seeking a lot of additional support elsewhere, not in a horrible way. I need something good to look forward to and enjoy. Yeah, you were low and as much as we were holding it together at home, it was hard work because you can't switch off from the worry a lot of the time. Yeah, and we made a few really good attempts.
Speaker 3:There's a few pockets of time that I remember from that 11 weeks I know it was only just gone by, but the KK birthday ball and I came home from a networking event and the kids were at after school club and we very much made the most of that time. Yes, and we both said, right, computers down on the dot of three, two hours, let's go. Yeah, basically, and we just forgot about the world and it was wonderful. But it's hard to do that every time, particularly as the time ticks by, whereas somebody else gives you a fresh perspective, breath of fresh air, all of those things. And I think that's possibly what rattled me within that time period is that I didn't have that support mechanism for a good part of that time. I had a date in that time with a lady who I think it's probably worth pulling into this conversation to some extent. See, it's very early days Probably.
Speaker 1:Because of the podcast. Has she got a name yet?
Speaker 3:No, can I pick one? No, no, I'm fine. But how much we're sussing out at the moment, how much we tell each other about things, what makes each other feel comfortable, what makes each other feel safe?
Speaker 1:And amongst all that is, you're also trying to work out what you can tell me, because I'm very much outside of those conversations. This is kind of new ground because, because you two are figuring that out and it's, it's, I'm going to say it, sorry if this puts you on the spot you are almost nervous about how much you like this person and you. I'm probably putting too much pressure onto this burgeoning relationship, but you really want to make it work. So you are treading very carefully, being very thoughtful about it, and you're not not telling me anything, but you're telling me very, very little. It's just the bare minimum and I'm not asking for anything because I know it's important to both you and to her, because you two are trying to work it out together. But you can tell that it's special.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It does make it in a nice way. It makes me nervous because, even as much as you've liked other partners in the past and everything you can tell, you really like this person and think I understand why. I don't just mean the photographs, I mean I mean not the photographs that I've shown you the ones that she shares on bikes, on open forum, open forum.
Speaker 1:But the little you have said about how she communicates and almost what she does for a living and the rest of it, just all of it, takes to like a. If there was a list of boxes of what would butchers, I was going to say perfect female partner, probably perfect partner.
Speaker 3:It'd be like there you go.
Speaker 1:But this is If she also came with her penis as well as a vagina, you'd be sold.
Speaker 3:I mean, she'd be a medical miracle, I know, but it's like you always said. I ticked all the boxes. What was?
Speaker 1:I missing, you know, boobs and a vagina.
Speaker 3:but Fine as you are, which is fine, which is fine, which is fine. I'm incomplete, yeah, I mean it's very new? I don't think so, but I think it's very new. I've never had this particular setup before and also we kind of looked at it.
Speaker 1:Which we, by the way, you and me, or you and me, you and me.
Speaker 3:And I've realised I've not dated a woman properly for ever. Really, no, try to. I've tried to.
Speaker 3:I wanted to. It hasn't quite worked. So I had girlfriends at school, but I had boyfriends at school and this is where we've talked about where I didn't really have the framework to work out that I am who I am. So the girlfriends were kind of on the down though, yeah. And then one of them we kind of always stayed connected.
Speaker 3:And then when I was first not even first, like a few years into my relationship with my ex-husband, we played a bit with her, but he never did anything with her from a properly sexual perspective. There was lots of kissing and touching and all that, but he never had sex with her. I don't think he did anything from an oral perspective either, if I remember correctly. So there was that. And then obviously we, as in you and I, dated Bunny, which is a very different experience. Even when her and I were having dates one on one without you, you were still part of that almost threpple type setup and it changed the dynamic yet again. So this is the first time that I've properly dated or been on a date and have second date coming up this week with a woman, but this week, yes, guys flying by, I know I've been counting the days down already no.
Speaker 1:I know what that pile of paper is on the floor. It's the days coming up, the calendar.
Speaker 3:But, like you say, it's trying to work out what information she's happy with that makes her feel secure and safe, because I've got experience in managing poly relationships, whereas this is all very new to her Now. I seem to remember way back when that I was never going to take on a newbie or a project or whatever. Ultimately, she's not a newbie because they have a relative level of experience within the lifestyle side of things and she's definitely not a project because she comes to it with such honesty and transparency, to the point that we have had the uncomfortable conversation of I have to tell you who I'm planning to see this week. Both sides have had to have this conversation of who I'm planning to see this week or what data have in the diary. I feel actually quite awkward about it because I like you and I don't want to upset you or hurt you or whatever.
Speaker 1:Also, if it's into this week's episode, what information? Do you? Share. This is right at the very start, but again, it's a really good foundation, isn't it? So we never actually finished going through the different kinds of data no sorry.
Speaker 1:No, it's okay. It's been interesting little segue, but the information you should shouldn't share. Because, the absolute you must is do you have an STI or is there something else that's like really important, the information you should share? There's probably the thing you should share. I think it's good practice if the person is okay with knowing if you're going on a date with someone, which is the example you just got to that I think that's the minimums of shoulds.
Speaker 3:If you've agreed to it, if you agree to it.
Speaker 1:Everything can be excluded from the STI. Even if someone doesn't want to know, they should be told. I kind of have to be yeah, basically that or pregnancy. Good point. Yeah. Is there anything else you should share? I think it's like I say we're going to just take out the caveat. If someone doesn't want to know, fine, but otherwise it's good practice that you should share with someone that you're going on dates. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Make them aware of what you're doing at a very high level and then after that it's personal preference. So what are the data? What are the information you share, isn't it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, and what everybody in the situation is comfortable with, what you should share. I had a thought around that. Boundaries, oh very good Boundaries. So I remember when and I think I mentioned this sort of ingest a few episodes back but a very clear boundary that I asked Lady V or, yeah, asked her to consider when she fell, when she first started dating you, was that if she had a problem with you, she had to resolve it with you. I was not there to play referee or to give insight into you. That is effectively her job to do. Yeah, and in someone who wants to be with you and is invested in you. I can't skew that or skew that viewpoint of you, because how I might read something might be very different to how she reads it as well. Totally.
Speaker 1:And also there's I can always ask the question. It's like getting your cheat code to your favorite game. You know, but that's also a different kind of cheating. It's like no, you need to work out for the reasons you say the answers for yourself.
Speaker 3:And for yourself as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, totally Okay do your name.
Speaker 3:Okay, if there's something that you do that I find incredibly annoying, she might find it endearing. I just might.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to think of anything that annoys you.
Speaker 3:Yes, I actually can't think of anything right now. You see, I am endearing always.
Speaker 1:Hmm, so that's a definite one. The other one, I suppose, is this is a tricky one to get into. Do you need to qualify your sexual boundaries that are different with different people?
Speaker 3:So I read an article earlier off the back of Sorry, I read a social post and it made me think about the article that I posted to the Instagram about swinging earlier in the week about this new show, the Couple Next Door. Do you need to come to that later? Yeah, I think we should maybe finish watching it, okay, and then sort of do a full commentary on it. But it said about how, you know, my husband and I sleep with other people, but there are rules.
Speaker 3:And then I oh that one yes, yeah, I read a social post saying you know, rules are fine to have. You don't have to run your relationship based completely on boundaries Like I don't know. Do we have any hard, fast rules? No one protected sex. No one protected sex.
Speaker 1:If you can explain the difference between a rule and a boundary, is it a. I'll have them protect sex with you.
Speaker 3:Is it a distinction without a difference?
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally I think. So. Okay, if you're going to get really nidally about it. A rule is something that always applies. A boundary is something that has some wiggle room before you reach it.
Speaker 1:The boundary is at the edge of something. But so this is why safe sex is always a rule. Yeah, you could say, oh God, I try to think what actually is a boundary, to be fair, like you can, god, no, I can't think of what about it. I actually can't think of something that is a boundary. Like maybe you can't do public displays of affection but you can do private displays of affection. That's like that's still a rule.
Speaker 3:But then if I'm Say that was my thing, yeah, would it matter. Would it matter if I wasn't with you? I know we had this once. It was the first time you went on a date with Bunny Like. With TG. No, not TG. It was when we started getting into that sort of three-way proper dating thing of one week. I'd see her.
Speaker 3:One week you'd see her and one week we'd both see her. So I think it was like the first time that you did that, where you went to the cinema. Oh, yes and yes, but I think my concern was it's the cinema that's a mile down the road from my dad. Yeah, Do we get seen? Do you get seen? There's lots of people that we know that frequent that cinema, and we were still very much early days, I guess. So it was more.
Speaker 3:I was like are you going to do public displays of affection? Because if someone from my dad's running club sees you because loads of people know us from there or from park run or from- wherever are you prepared to have the conversation with them? That's pipe-specific.
Speaker 1:I'm just using it as a, but what I'm trying to get to was between a boundary and a rule, and I actually can't tell the difference.
Speaker 3:Sorry, it was more. Yes, sorry, From my point of view it was more. I wanted to call out the fact that I had had that moment around, that specific thought process. But I'm now imagining you and ADV in London, going for lunch, going for coffee why wouldn't you walk down the street holding?
Speaker 1:hands.
Speaker 3:Why wouldn't you have a kiss? You're on a date, totally.
Speaker 1:But still rules versus boundaries, then all the difference is Listener, if you have, I should Google this, but honestly I'm too tired. But yes, if you have a good distinction between poly or just anything in the C&M world of rules versus boundaries, I'd love to know because I cannot mentally get myself into a position to understand the differences. So if you just assume those things are the same, then someone who says it's okay to not have rules and not just boundaries I don't know what they're actually trying to say. It's like saying it's okay to not drink coffee with your coffee. It's the same thing.
Speaker 3:I think, I don't know.
Speaker 1:This is. I'm not sure how this relates back to.
Speaker 3:Right, but then again, like what do you tell people? Because if you have got a hard, fast rule that you've broken, for example, if we're using the rule terminology probably need to tell that person.
Speaker 1:I agree, so this is also in the should box. Yeah, there's the must, the should and might.
Speaker 3:Is the might based off if someone asks you a direct question?
Speaker 1:I was thinking more. If someone is yeah, probably is that yes, it's, either I'm going to, I was trying to elicit information, in which case, go back to your example. You should check with the other person and see if it's okay to share. Or you might want to tell somebody something and it's your information to share, but you need to check with them whether they want to hear it first. So you don't tell French fancy everything that we get up to. So you might tell them something about us. I can't think what, but you might do it, because you can't tell them everything. All lives are too busy for you to give them like a complete summary of our lives. Definitely, there's probably nothing that you must tell him outside of the snorkel he's already given, and there's things you might tell him which is just impassing, like hunters being adorable today, which I'm sure you say to all the time.
Speaker 3:Not as infrequent as you may think. A non zero value I'll take.
Speaker 1:Probably about once a month. We talk about how lovely you are. Not enough.
Speaker 3:All right.
Speaker 1:But if you wanted to tell him something about, here you go. Here's the use cases. What if there's something you want to say to him about Lady V, or about me and Lady V? If you want to tell him that's the starting point Something interesting has happened. To check with us, okay to share. Then check with him that he wants to hear it. And then, if you get yes and a yes, only then does the information get shared. And that's, I think, the way to think about this thing is who owns the information? Do you have yeses from everybody who either can send or receive the information, and only then does the information get shared. And again, I've broken it down to a bloody flowchart.
Speaker 3:Yeah, flowcharts.
Speaker 1:Flowcharts, how I live my life, that and shouting at people at conference calls. So what information do you share about, and to your partner's partner? Well, it can be anything, but as long as it's agreed. As long as it's agreed, here you go. Is there anything that absolutely shouldn't be shared, no matter what?
Speaker 3:And if it's been specifically asked, I had something happen last week where I asked you not to mention it to anybody because I was just so frustrated at myself. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I said please. Just this isn't for information for anybody else.
Speaker 1:I did such a good job of blanking it I actually forgot what it was for a while there. Yeah, exactly. So that's between you and I and I'm not going to share it with anybody anyway, but it's a similar sort of thing, isn't it?
Speaker 3:But?
Speaker 1:there's no particular category. Is there of information?
Speaker 3:No, I guess it's just boundaries, or?
Speaker 3:rules or whatever, but it helps with ADV and I because we talk already. So, for example, you briefly mentioned to me that she'd been on a date and then she said I'm not sure if Hunter's told you, but I went on a date. Can I ask your opinion on the date? I have no idea who this person is, etc. So she was asking my opinion, as a hypothetical, on the situation that she'd found herself in. And I said to her oh, I hope you don't mind that he mentioned that you've been on a date because I know she's dating or planning to date others because she's been open about that. She's poly, exactly. So that wasn't the thing. It was more the fact that you'd given me a little bit of detail. So I said yeah, he has. Are you comfortable with that? I know that's a little bit carp before horse, but at least then if we'd infringed on something, it's something for the future for us all to know. And she said, no, no, it's great that he's told you, so now I can talk to you about it.
Speaker 1:By the way, this conversation was going on while I was out running, so I came back to about two or three thousand unread messages on my phone, which then took me about a day and a half to actually get back to the point where I had to go, I agree, and then stopped talking because that was all I could contribute to this conversation. It's a good job, you two get on.
Speaker 3:We get on very well. Yeah, we do, we genuinely do I know.
Speaker 1:I've got a backlog of messages that proves the point. But that's a very good example. Was it my information to share? I've wrote broken memories because I didn't check first.
Speaker 3:But that's what made me think of it. It's a good one.
Speaker 1:Okay, naughty me, I'm sorry.
Speaker 3:But that's why I checked, yeah, because I felt bad, because I wasn't going to lie, but it's dicey territory.
Speaker 1:This is a minefield, which is why, even as we're talking through it, we're not being like, really crystal clear about this, because it's very, it's very scenario dependent, apart from the one ultimate use case.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you never know, that might have been the thing that she suddenly went. You know what? That's a boundary for me, hunter, don't discuss that with Butcher. Yeah that's fine, and then that's lesson learned. Yeah, but you don't know. Sometimes you don't know something's a boundary until it happens.
Speaker 1:Well, that's why we started the podcast. Yeah, because the amount of cock up we had made along the way, we just thought everyone else should probably like have something to use as a resource. And here we are, 82 episodes later, still cocking up. Basically, there you go, mine this week. It's your turn next.
Speaker 3:I'm sure it is. I'm sure it is. But yeah, this is interesting. I like this.
Speaker 1:I do. I feel it's not very conclusive because ultimately it is. If you have to tell someone something, tell them. If you can't tell, if it's not, if it's not an STI or pregnancy, everything else depends on approval from everyone involved, and if you don't have it, don't do it.
Speaker 3:It's not just not like the basically bare bones of our podcast.
Speaker 1:Anyway, communicate as much as you can possible and do some more until you realise that everyone knows everything and know what can be caught out. Indeed, cool, cool, ok.
Speaker 3:Well, in the meantime, keep us and your protection in your pocket.
Speaker 1:That was very lacklustredunding, wasn't it? Keep us and your well communicated protection in your pocket.
Speaker 3:I thank you.
Speaker 1:I thank you. Keep us stop play. Keep us stop play.