Today’s episode part 2 of a 2 episode series on the National Convention, one of the primary democratic mechanisms within the structure of DSA. To discuss the national convention Justin Charles from the NPC will return. We’ll also be joined by Renée Paradis. Both are members of the Platform and Resolutions Subcommittee.
New NPEC Curriculum Module: Labor History We're proud to announce our latest out-of-the-box curriculum module: The US Labor Movement and the Socialist Role. This introductory and ready-to-use module traces the role socialists have historically played in labor organizing, focusing on the 1934 West Coast Longshore Strike as an example of a multiracial, cross-industry, and community-based working-class alliance, characterized by democratic decision making, creative and powerful tactics, refusal to concede to union/government “mediation,” and a general strike.
Credits: Producer: Elton LK Logo by Michaela Brangan Sound Engineer & Opening Music by Casey Stikker Additional Assistance, including content by Palmer Conrad
Today’s episode part 2 of a 2 episode series on the National Convention, one of the primary democratic mechanisms within the structure of DSA. To discuss the national convention Justin Charles from the NPC will return. We’ll also be joined by Renée Paradis. Both are members of the Platform and Resolutions Subcommittee.
New NPEC Curriculum Module: Labor History We're proud to announce our latest out-of-the-box curriculum module: The US Labor Movement and the Socialist Role. This introductory and ready-to-use module traces the role socialists have historically played in labor organizing, focusing on the 1934 West Coast Longshore Strike as an example of a multiracial, cross-industry, and community-based working-class alliance, characterized by democratic decision making, creative and powerful tactics, refusal to concede to union/government “mediation,” and a general strike.
Credits: Producer: Elton LK Logo by Michaela Brangan Sound Engineer & Opening Music by Casey Stikker Additional Assistance, including content by Palmer Conrad
This is CLASS, an official podcast of the Democratic Socialists of America National Political Education Committee. My name is Elton L. Kaye. This episode is part two of our discussion on the democratic mechanisms within DSA. In our last episode, we heard from Justin Charles, currently a member of DSA's National Political Committee, as well as the Resolutions and Platform Committee. We also heard from Renee Paradis, former chair of DSA's National Electoral Committee and current member of the Resolutions and Platform Committee. In part one, we discussed what DSA's National Convention is, what a consensus resolution is, Why consensus resolutions are being implemented this year, and some of the details surrounding the National Labor Commission's consensus resolution. In this episode, we finish talking about the NLC's consensus resolution, talk briefly about the National Electoral Committee's consensus resolution, As well as some resolutions seeking to address issues with DSA's governance structure itself with the intention of making it both more democratic and more effective. Some of the discussion includes the personal opinions of our guests. While these opinions are not intended as the official stances, of the organization. I hope they provide insight into the debates live within the organization. We hope CLASS can be a platform to work out these disagreements in a comradely way as we figure out how to build working class power. Before we proceed with this episode, we have an announcement. Back in January, MPEC launched our new curriculum website. Featuring lesson plans for running a socialist night school, and three foundational modules. What is capitalism? What is socialism? And why the working class? This is a continuously expanding resource for political educators, developed and published by MPEC. Note that we have podcast episodes corresponding to what is capitalism and what is socialism. We're proud to announce our latest out of the box curriculum module, The U. S. Labor Movement and the Socialist Role. This introductory and ready to use module traces the role socialists have historically played in labor organizing. Focusing on the 1934 West Coast Longshore strike as an example of a multiracial, cross industry, and community based working class alliance characterized by democratic decision making. Creative and powerful tactics, refusal to concede to union slash government, mediation, and a general strike. Our committee plans on adding more modules as well as Spanish translations, so be sure to check out the website throughout the year for new content. If you're unsure how to best use our new website to get a Socialist Night School set up in your chapter, Join our membership program by filling out our form on our website. The link is also in the show notes. Okay, let us return to our guests. What is intended by the term Union Democracy? I mean, I think if you observe some of the changes that are happening in the labor movement recently, you know, with, um, you know, Sean Fain winning the election to be UAW president now, um, UAW taking a much more aggressive stance against the big three automakers, um, or you look at Sean O'Brien having been elected, um, president of the Teamsters and now you see Teamsters, Teamsters. Engage in a contract fight that may lead to a strike very soon. Um, it's interesting because part of our strategy has been kind of like, we want to seed a militant labor movement that is not complacent, that's willing to fight against labor bureaucrats who are much more interested in like spending all their money on, you know, democratic campaign contributions or what have you, or, or endorsements or like their political action committee or their political directors of their. Of the unions doing all this stuff, but not a whole lot of new organizing, for example, and wanting to kind of have a more member driven. Labor movement, I think, is, is, is part of what we talk about with democracy, but that's interesting when you see, like, new leadership coming to Teamsters, UAW, um, and be much more aggressive with management with these companies when you see a lot of labor militancy. You know, around, for example, the UC strike closer to home for me, the new school part time faculty, which I was a member. I guess still am though. I haven't taught in a couple of years went on strike. We're seeing, you know, the W. G. A. on strike. Which may foment, you know, a Screen Actors Guild strike. The amount of labor militancy we're seeing is really, really exciting and encouraging. So, what's our role in kind of carrying that forward, I think, is the kind of background here. Rene, you mentioned that you can speak more to the consensus resolution from the National Electoral Commission. What is being put forward in the resolution, and what amendments are being put forward? Yeah, so, I mean, I see the electoral committee's consensus resolution is as very much a in continuity with our 2021 electoral consensus resolution that was adopted by the last convention. Um, I was 1 of the co authors of the 2021 resolution, but I wasn't on the NEC when this 1 was drafted. Although I did, um, help draft some amendments that some folks submitted internally. Um, and it. Really puts forward what what DSA electoral strategy has been since 2017, which is sort of coalesced around this idea of the party surrogate model, which is to recognize as, as Justin alluded to that in the United States, there are structural reasons why we have 2 parties. And we find ourselves in that that universe and have to make decisions about how to engage in electoral politics within that context. And what we sort of coalesced around is, is a, um, creating an independent apparatus. That's capable of electing candidates within like on the Democratic Party line to basically replicate the Bernie strategy of using the Democratic Party line strategically in order to elect open socialists and to, um, use DSA as sort of the repository for the skills involved in an electoral campaign, the volunteers to knock doors, um, the resources, um, you know, technical, financial, et cetera. Um, and, you know, I, I think it's been, uh, you know, real success story in terms of, of what, how DSA has been able to elect, you know, um, folks across the country as open socialists, you know, the most that, that, uh, I think have ever, uh, most ever sort of open socialist, um, electeds in America. And we have, we have seen a number of both standalone resolutions and amendments to it that I would say I want to put a greater emphasis on. Independence from the Democratic Party, which is something that, um, I see as a, as a goal and not really like a tactic or strategy that makes sense in the short term in that. I think that there's a lot of folks who want to go back to the old days, uh, the sort of green party strategy or, you know, of running these 3rd party candidates. Which I think sort of always will limit how much power you can build in the United States given the two party system. And so, you know, my personal view is that it makes sense to use the Democratic Party line strategically. There will come a day when... They want to kick us out or we're strong enough to leave and when that crisis happens, that's when we can start talking about what kind of break we want to make. But the task right now is to build DSA and build power. And the best way to do that is the sort of strategic use of the Democratic Party ballot line. So as we have debated in 2017 and 2019 and 2021 and now again in 2023, we will be having a conversation about our relationship with the Democratic Party. And I think there are a number of places where our orientation toward the 2024 election is going to be considered at the convention. I don't think there's anybody who's interested in seeing DSA endorse Biden that, well, not any, I'm sure there are people, but there aren't a lot of them. Um, but the number of resolutions that are written as though there is a. Like, really organized mass of people who are interested in having DSA endorse Biden. Um, it, it, it's, it's considerable. And, and I find it sort of funny as, as someone who is in a caucus that would be accused of wanting to do that. And we, we don't want to do that. Um, but I do think we should have an orientation towards the 2024 election that allows us to be in solidarity with a segment of the politicized working class that. Quite rightly sees a Republican taking the presidency is an existential threat. And so figuring out how to do that, whether it's through election protection or working on abortion ballot measures or other kinds of work That are not us endorsing biden, but will put us into that fight and in solidarity with those folks. I think is is important For me personally, that's something I would like to see this convention adopt, but we'll see it is interesting that like we keep having these debates Each convention. Um, and I, you know, I don't, I don't know that we'll ever not have them, but it is interesting to see the ways in which, you know, people kind of like continue to clamor for like, okay, we've talked about independence, like, tangibly, what does that look like? I think we have varying visions of what that independence looks like. My thinking is that, like, you know, each convention, we've kind of, like, answered that question, perhaps not satisfactorily to, like, every, uh, tendency within the organization, but I do think we have answered that question. I don't expect us to, like, decide to form a third party tomorrow and start, you know, as soon as the convention's over, rather. But I, but I do think, for example, last convention, you know, there was an amendment to the National Electoral Committee's consensus resolution that, you know, sought to, I mean, in some ways did some stuff that was like a little, let's get, let's be independent and all the flashy ways. Now, I think there was some useful stuff in that that talked about, like, candidate development, for example, Thank you. If there are ways for us to continue to build our infrastructure and signal that we're serious about building our own independent electorate apparatus while still continuing to use Democratic Party ballot lines and force that crisis point that Renee talked about, where like the Democrats are so shook about us. kicking their asses all the time that they decide they have to kick us out. I feel like we have to build some of the stuff that can succeed that. Where we at least have to like get some infrastructure in place. So I'd be interested to see what that looks like for us over the coming years. I mean, I would, I would just say I absolutely agree that we need to take that, that seriously. I would suggest the best way to take that seriously is to build power in the short term that would allow us to grow. And I think that, um, Lot of the criticism we've seen of our elected and the, the, um, desire to censure or expel people for, um, what are, you know, perceived as as, um, uh, deviations from our orthodoxy are incredibly on serious and. Uh, will guarantee our project fails. And so, for me, I agree that we need to build more infrastructure, but I, I think that we also have a real problem in DSA where, um, I think that that there are a lot of folks who are, who use, um, use these moments to try and bring us back to this older model of, um, Of only running people who are perfectly pure, and I, I understand the appeal of it, but I think taking ourselves seriously means, you know, reckoning with contradictions and difficulties and trying to to do the thing that's going to build the most power for socialism, which I. I agree means taking ourselves very seriously. Um, when we were running, uh, Julia Salazar for state Senate in New York, which is the 1st, sort of successful and well, 2nd, successful and my campaign after, uh, in 2018, but they were running at the same time. Carlos Ramirez Rosa visited us from Chicago and said, we owe it to the working class to be ruthless in our pursuit of power. Um, and. I don't know if I agree on ruthless, but it was a very provocative and interesting thing to hear at just that moment. And and so, for me, taking ourselves seriously means, um, not just building infrastructure, but also, uh, approaching the political project with with, um, seriousness in that way. I just want to get 1 last word in and say, I agree with Renee about, you know, I think. It's a little, it's somewhat wrong headed. I think some of what we're seeing in terms of the. Resolutions or amendments that have been put forward. Um, around electoral questions. I think there's like a real kind of like a tunnel vision around what we would call elected accountability, which I think is like, I understand where folks are coming from, but I think this kind of like, this kind of focus on like, discipline and discipline in the negative sense. It's like somebody did something bad and you have to like. Set that right somehow, or make them feel bad about it, I think is not the approach that we ought to be taking. I think we need to be thinking more seriously about like, how are we building relationships with the people that are, that are, that are seeking endorsement, how often are those people coming from within our ranks? What kind of relationships have we built with the constituencies outside of DSA that will be electing these people? And that to me should be where people are focused, unless I'm like, oh, an elected did something bad. How do we. Punish them. I'm not really that, I'm not really interested in punishing, uh, our electives. Um, I think we should be more interested in, in, in growing a more robust, powerful infrastructure to get more people elected to actually push forward the program that, that, that the DSA wants to put into place. Last question, Renee, can you speak to some of the structural resolutions up for a vote? Yeah, so, as, as Justin mentioned, the convention is the only place that DSA can chain can make amendments to its constitution and bylaws, which govern the, the way the organization is run. And, um, in 2017, 2016 and 2017, when we experienced our huge amount of growth, um, you know, we have. The same number of nationally elected leaders now that we do when the organization was 5000 people in a series of book clubs and, um, that kind of board might work for an NGO. That's not member run. But if we want to have true member democracy, I think there's a, that a lot of people think we need more people in elected national leadership. So, as I mentioned off Mike, um, I've brought, um. Uh, structural reform proposals to the last 2 DSA conventions, and, uh, we, uh, failed mightily to get them enacted. You need 2 3rds of the convention to pass any structural reform proposals. So this convention, there are 2 big ones, um, 1 that I'm a Co. sponsor of called democratize DSA 2023, or as we're calling it, the mega NPC proposal, which would expand the national political committee to 51 people, um, to make it more of a deliberative body and then, uh, invest in a smaller steering committee of, of 13 people, the duties of the board of directors. And so it would expand elected national leadership while keeping a smaller group to, um, deal with. Administrative matters that might need that kind of executive body. Uh, there's another proposal called the delegates council, which, um, is probably undergoing some, some changes. We've been in all of the authors of structural proposals have been in discussion with 1 another to try and get to a place where we can get something passed at this convention, because I think there's a real sense among the leadership. Layer of the organization that if we don't do something, um, we're real danger of having a crisis that we can't come back from in the next 2 years because so many of the, um, things that have roiled, you know, uh, DSA politics would, uh, I think everyone believes benefit from having a larger national deliberative body to consider. So the delegates council as, as structured right now, um, all chapters would elect delegates to the council. The body would meet, um. Uh, maybe once every 6 months or once a year and would have sort of, the, the NPC. And so, as you can see, both of these are about how do we get a lot more people into national elected leadership? And so, as I said, the authors of the proposals have been in conversation with, with 1 another, but also with other formations and caucuses and DSA to try and get to a place where we have consensus structural reform. Um, so hopefully when we, when we get to the convention, we'll have, um, a, a good discussion and debate of the amendments to these proposals and end up enacting one or both to, um, to, you know, finally get some structural reform. And, and so, you know, even in 2017 there were structural reform proposals that were brought, but we've just been unable to get to two thirds on any of them since then. And so, um, I think that's a really important question. That'll be before the delegates in August. Yeah, I mean, I, I, I strongly agree that, you know, we are in many ways running on like pre Bernie and Trump bump infrastructure, uh, in terms of the way that the, the, the, the leadership layer of the organization is structured. I don't think it's sustainable. I think if we don't fix some of these structural problems with the organization now. Um, we are going to be much worse for wear come next convention, um, and probably won't be in a place to, to repair it. So, I think it's really vital that we, that we pass structural reform that I, that, that, that one enlarges the NPC and makes it easier to do the work of the body because it is too hard to do the work of the body with the number that we have right now. Um, I, I, I agree with a much larger body, um, and I think it would do well to, to bring in. Because I think a lot of people are afraid to run for NPC because they know it's like, wow, that's a lot of work. It's like, not that many of you running this whole organization and implementing all the stuff that we passed the convention when we passed way too many resolutions. It's really important to have a body that's bigger because it's signals to people. It's like, oh, I won't have to put the weight of this organization on my shoulders alongside. Very few other people having a larger body can make people more, be more willing to run people who might not otherwise be otherwise be willing to run. Um, and I think it can also bring in people from different parts of the organization because I think we have a problem with siloing. If we were to get more people from more corners of the organization involved in various national bodies onto one central leadership body, I think it would do a lot of, uh, good work to kind of link things together in a way that they are right now. Thank you, Justin, Renee. Thanks for listening to CLASS, an official podcast of the Democratic Socialists of America National Political Education Committee. Thank you to Casey Sticker for sound engineering, theme music, and editing. And to Palmer Conrad for help with content and administrative work. If you're inspired by anything we've been talking about, if you think the system is rigged and democracy is the solution, join DSA. Become a member. If you're already a member of DSA, please share this podcast with your local chapter. CLASS is intended to be a resource for chapters and members to articulate, apply, and share socialist theory. With DSA and the wider working class. Also remember to rate and review us on iTunes or your favorite pod catcher.
