If you’ve been listening to this podcast for very long you probably already know the answer to the question “why the working class?” In some ways this question is the reason for existence for the podcast. We want to raise class consciousness. As members of the working class we have interests that do not align with the large business owners and investors. Only by coming together can we serve our interests: to live and flourish on this planet with each other sustainably.
This episode will be the first in a series answering the question why the working class? Subsequent episodes will be covering each of the texts in the NPEC “Why the Working Class?” curriculum (link below).
This episode is edited down from multiple episodes recorded back in June 2022. We tried to get them out a long time ago, but we had a variety of technical and audio issues. We’ve decided to record new episodes, but there were some pieces so good that we wanted to release them out of context.
Today’s episode is hosted by Daphna Thier, who was the chair of DSA’s national political education committee at the time. She is now the Labor Education Coordinator for Emergency Workplace Organizing Committee (EWOC). It also includes Kari Thompson (UE Director of Education, Director of International Strategies, Member of UE Local 896) and Justin Freeman (an NYC-DSA member, father, CUNY graduate, and Director of Community Affairs for the New York State Assembly).
Credits: Producer: Elton LK Logo by Michaela Brangan Sound Engineer & Opening Music by Casey Stikker Additional Assistance, including content by Palmer Conrad
If you’ve been listening to this podcast for very long you probably already know the answer to the question “why the working class?” In some ways this question is the reason for existence for the podcast. We want to raise class consciousness. As members of the working class we have interests that do not align with the large business owners and investors. Only by coming together can we serve our interests: to live and flourish on this planet with each other sustainably.
This episode will be the first in a series answering the question why the working class? Subsequent episodes will be covering each of the texts in the NPEC “Why the Working Class?” curriculum (link below).
This episode is edited down from multiple episodes recorded back in June 2022. We tried to get them out a long time ago, but we had a variety of technical and audio issues. We’ve decided to record new episodes, but there were some pieces so good that we wanted to release them out of context.
Today’s episode is hosted by Daphna Thier, who was the chair of DSA’s national political education committee at the time. She is now the Labor Education Coordinator for Emergency Workplace Organizing Committee (EWOC). It also includes Kari Thompson (UE Director of Education, Director of International Strategies, Member of UE Local 896) and Justin Freeman (an NYC-DSA member, father, CUNY graduate, and Director of Community Affairs for the New York State Assembly).
Credits: Producer: Elton LK Logo by Michaela Brangan Sound Engineer & Opening Music by Casey Stikker Additional Assistance, including content by Palmer Conrad
We're joined today by DSA member Justin Freeman, DSA father, uh, no, that's Bernie.
Elton LK:
This is CLASS, an official podcast of Democratic Socialists of America, National Political Education Committee. My name is Elton LK. If you've been listening to the podcast for very long, you probably already know the answer to the question, why the working class? In some ways, this question is the reason for existence for the podcast. We want to raise class consciousness. As members of the working class, we have interests that do not align with the large business owners and the investors. Only by coming together can we serve our interests. To live and flourish on this planet with each other sustainably. This episode will be the first in a series answering the question, why the working class? Subsequent episodes will be covering each of the texts in the MPEC Why the Working Class curriculum, which you can find on our website under resources. The link is in the show notes. The Why the Working Class curriculum includes several texts, such as Vivek Chibber's text with the same name, Why Class Struggle is Central by Ellen Meiksins Wood. Also, International President of the Association of Flight Attendants, Sarah Nelson's speech at the 2019 DSA convention called, Solidarity is a Force Stronger than Gravity, and Marx and Engels' Wage Labor and Capital. But today's episode is edited down from multiple episodes recorded back in June of 2022. We recorded a bunch of episodes on some of these texts at that time, but we had a variety of technical and audio issues. We've decided to record new episodes. There were some pieces that we were able to salvage from the original recordings that we really liked and wanted to get to you. So that's what this episode is. Today's episode is hosted by Daphna Thier, who was the chair of DSA's National Political Education Committee at the time. She's now the Labor Education Coordinator for Emergency Workplace Organizing Committee, also known as EWOC. For more on EWOC, see our previous episodes. I'll hand it over to Daphna to introduce our guests.
Daphna Thier:
We're joined today by DSA members, Justin Freeman, who's also a father and veteran. And Kerry Thompson, who's also staff at UE, United Electrical, Radio and Machine Workers.
Kari Thompson:
Hello.
Daphna Thier:
So maybe we should start with a quick definition of who the capitalists are and what the working class is.
Justin Freeman:
Yeah, sure. I mean, you know, when I think of the working class, you know, I think of, Just me and you, the majority, the 99%, um, but what the working class is, you know, it comprises of individuals that sell their labor, um, for a wage or for a salary contract, um, and comprises of like multiple industries. So that's like, you know, blue collar, white collar is the terminology that they use. Um, to kind of like stratify the working class in a sense, right? And almost in ways like pitting them against each other. But I also think of it as, you know, that wage is like the, the primary source of like exploitation. And that's like the one of the defining features of capitalism. Um, and you can't have capitalism without that exploitation of the working class. So, um, you know, when you think of capitalist class, capitalist class is kind of like Scrooge McDuck swimming in his vault of money. You know, um, Elon Musk going to space while everyone is poor. Um, it's they're wealthy people who use their money to invest, um, in trade industry for profit in accordance with the principles of purely their profit. Um, they live to oppress the working class, and they also control the means of production. And through that, they can control the production of ideas.
Daphna Thier:
I guess my next question, Justin, can you explain why it is then that socialists focus so much on the working class as a class and not just like an extra identity that people have or like what makes the working class uniquely capable of changing society fundamentally? Is it just our sheer numbers that we're the majority, like you said, or that we're the most oppressed, or is it something else?
Justin Freeman:
Yeah, I mean, I think this question is a great way for us to, like, highlight how powerful, uh, the working class actually is and the necessity of their role. And bringing the revolutionary change we're talking about. Um, you know, sure, the working class in relation to the capitalist class is a majority. And by a long shot, the 2008 economic crash and the subsequent, um, uh, Occupy Wall Street movement, from which the phrases... We are the 99% or the silent majority made this like fact abundantly clear. And, um, you know, the working class is the most oppressive in relation to other capitalist class. The federal reserve data indicates that as of 2021, the top 1% of households in the United States hold 32% of the wealth, country's wealth, while the bottom 50% held just 2.6%. Um, that bottom 50%, most of these families are rent burdened, um, making an unlivable wage and have shorter life expectancies. Um, and according to a recent survey, 63% of Americans can't cover a$500 emergency, right? And so the economic, and now the economic crash caused by, um, the pandemic has exacerbated this. um, economic disparity and by extension, economic injustice. But most importantly, socialists focus on the working class because of their relationship to the capitalist class, namely their ability to withhold their labor. Um, And I will also argue that tenants on the vast majority of which are working class also have the ability to withhold their rent to kind of put the same pressure on the system, the same shock to the system that Vivek talks about, um, you know, to use that to change their material conditions. Um, and you know, when we think of injustices, um, the working class, that the working class experiences mostly has to do with the fact that people are being denied their material, material security, meaning things like a livable wage, actually affordable housing, um, and adequate health care. Um, and we also don't have too much freedom in changing our lack of material security, our bosses. Tell us how long to work, how much for, and if we don't, we just get fired, right? Um, and the working class has to sell their labor in order to survive, while the capitalists will pay workers a wage that will maximize their profits. Meaning that, you know, they won't pay them what they need to survive. In fact, it's in their best interest, uh, not to do that. Um, to, to not pay them their, you know, what they need to survive. This is a defined, one of the defining features of capitalism. Um, you know, workplace conditions are also secondary. Capitalists will pay as little as they can in conditions as harsh as workers are willing to stand. But, in fact, capitalists can't make money if the workers don't clock in and the profits are dependent on obedient workers. If workers strike, then capitalists are stuck. Um, the leverage that the working class has... can be used to change their working conditions. And if the strike is big enough, it can shock the system. Um, and right now we're in an era of unprecedented labor organizing that we haven't seen since the new deal. We have Starbucks, Trader Joe's, Dollar General, and most notably, um, Amazon. You know, these are all companies where workers are organizing en masse. Um, I went to my local Trader Joe's and a friend of mine told me that they were organizing, um, I think around like 40 workers. Which is great to see I'm at the place where I usually shop at and the potential here is like is real, right? I posted an article about Trader Joe's organizing on my Facebook and a few of my friends that I know who work at the Trader Joe's in New York City they tagged other coworkers in the comments So, you know, we're in this unique space here where class consciousness is increasing even through the threat of being fired or having your character questioned. Um, you know, Amazon Labor Union President Chris Smalls, who was fired along with several other, uh, you know, employees for essentially expressing concerns for during the covid outbreak, just making sure that the other workers were safe, right? He successfully organized his Amazon distribution center in the face of insurmountable odds and also being told he doesn't speak well, he looks like a bug and all of these things all of the ways that they try to break us apart Um, you know showing and also this shows that firing folks for organizing emboldens workers even further to change their working condition Um, but you know, the working class has more than one arena to fight back against capitalists and that battleground, I believe, is housing, uh, tenants and landlords are tied into perennial conflict, just as workers and capitalists are, and just as workers have power and withholding their labor, tenants power lie in withholding their rent. Uh, this is especially important in the time where, um, here in New York City, rents have hit an all time high. Inflation has hit a 50 year high and hedge funds and, you know, mega landlords acquire large swathes of properties in either in New York city or all across the country. Um, so you can imagine if we had a rent strike and a work strike and a labor strike, I should say, um, what that would look like if we could organize across housing and labor that would do so much to max maximize. You know, the impact that we will have. So is it the numbers? Yes. You know, in a capitalist system, the workers by design will always outnumber the capitalists. And there is also the sense of moral urgency that Vivek Chibber talks about. But in order to improve the conditions of our society and to work towards a decent life, We have to use the inherent power of the working class to create that change. And that kind of sums up why I, Vivek believes it's, it's, uh, you know, labor, but I also think a little dash of housing, uh, works to housing.
Daphna Thier:
And, I, this sort of leads me to another question, which is maybe you can continue on that track train of thought, but like, so why, you know, is that kind of what makes it so important why it's so important? Sorry, to organize the working class? Like why is organized labor so important? Why do we focus on that?
Kari Thompson:
So, from the perspective of UE, the union that I was first a member of and now a staff, the whole reason why it's important for there to be organized labor is that the capitalists are organized. They have their own forms of representation. They have the Chamber of Commerce. They have the American Legislative Exchange Council. They have professional organizations that they create and fund that prop up their ideas for the media, for Congress for our schools, and they are organized, and they have capital. They have the money. So if we are not organized, we will not be able to push back against them, and We have to have a plan, right? You can't just sell everybody to show up one day and they are, have never met any of the people they're supposed to show up with and trust that it will happen, right? You have to build those relationships with people. Build the experiences of trust. And that happens through organization. For me, it's through organized labor but I think Justin's bringing up a good point as well about tenants unions, right? What he's saying about the power to withhold rents. Does it really work if just one person does it again? It has to be a collective action, and it's a pretty interesting example even to think historically about the move from the working class being beholden to their employer for housing. To forming labor unions to free themselves from that, right? So that they got real money, not just company script for their job. Uh, you know, for, for their work. And so, but then they become entrenched to the power of banks for mortgages or landlords. for paying rent, right? So capitalists sometimes give us a little bit of the piece that we're demanding, but then they find other ways to kind of take back what they had. So we have that little sense of this piece of oppression being lifted, but we still have to continue to fight back collectively to get more because otherwise they continue to exploit us.
Daphna Thier:
Okay, so if you all had to point to an example to talk about an example of an oppression that has been fought by organized workers or socialists, what would that be?
Kari Thompson:
I think the first thing to preface an answer to this question with is that we haven't succeeded in all of our end goals. Even in the examples that we have of overcoming different oppressions. Because capitalists are so wily at being able to sort of take things back that they've given to us. So I think it's important that we as socialists acknowledge that our work is always ongoing, when we have won these gains. But it's important to identify the gains too, so that we can see where we are winning and we are using our power effectively. And I would say one of the most obvious places where workers united to fight against an oppression is the emancipation of slaves. That slave, enslaved people were workers, and of course they were a vital part of the Civil War and of literally freeing themselves from that kind of oppression, and it was a radical freeing moment. But we know that within a couple decades, Reconstruction collapsed, and Jim Crow laws were enforced so ruthlessly, much of that liberation was taken away from primarily Black folks. This was a moment when the working class united because White folks could see that their labor was constantly being undercut by enslaved people who were paid literally nothing, right? So this was a united, working class moment in our country's history that had success, but not enough, right? And we can think about other really important ideas, like the fight for the 8 hour day, which was a multiracial, multiethnic, multilingual fight primarily led by immigrants who were being exploited left and right who are being told they had to go to work at one particular Employer because that was the place that employed people from their ethnic backgrounds and people were regularly Being forced to work 10 and 12 hour days So, the fight was 8 hours work, 8 hours rest, 8 hours for what you will. And the idea was that we needed not just to be able to put food on the table and a roof over our heads, but to have free time. To be liberated, to enjoy life, right? And that was absolutely a united working class movement that had some success, partially encompassed by the Fair Labor Standards Act. But we have to also acknowledge that even when that was passed, it did not apply to everyone. It did not apply specifically to the kinds of jobs that were most often done by people of color, especially agricultural work and domestic work. And we also have to acknowledge that capitalists found ways to continuously walk that back, right? So, Even now, people who might have the luxury of a full time 40 hour a week job find that that doesn't make ends meet, and they have to have another one. And therefore, they don't have eight hours for what you will, right? They don't have that free time as part of what they were after. But it was an example of a united, working class movement that had some success. I think there are some more specific examples, but they, a lot of them are smaller, right? But I think it's important that we recognize them because they provide us paths forward, and especially the ones that start on a local level, I think are great for DSA chapters to think about. How could you do something practical that might result in meaningful change in your community? And maybe we'll have broader ripple effects. And I think one example of a great broader ripple effect is the work that the Black Panther Party did to provide free breakfast for children. And that actually became the model for our free school lunch program, right? Now our free school lunch program has hoops to jump through. It's been amazing during the pandemic that so many of those restrictions were lifted. And we know that fewer children and fewer families experienced hunger because some of those restrictions on our federal food program were lifted. And all of that actually originated from this radical idea that the Black Panther Party had of, hey, when kids are hungry, they can't learn as much, and this is holding back our Black youth, so let's provide them breakfast before they go to school so they can get more out of going to school, right? So that was a small idea, but it had this amazing ripple effect because people saw that it worked. I can think of several examples from within my own union, but again, these are, they're very specific to like, one shop. So, Local 190 in Chicago, uh, was an industrial facility that had traditionally employed only white workers. And, uh, we're a union that has a strong history from our founding in 1936 of fighting on an industrial basis and anybody can be a member regardless of race, class, gender, political belief, religious belief, any, anything. We weren't going to let the boss divide us. So, uh, in the 60s, the local went out on strike for a variety of reasons, and one of the things that was really common And it still happens to some extent today was that when a local was going on strike, the employer would look for strike breaking folks, workers who are willing to cross the picket line. Right. And it was really common for white bosses to go into black and brown neighborhoods and recruit those workers to cross the picket line. Because for those folks, those were better wages than the jobs they were usually getting. But, UE had this strong relationship with Martin Luther King Jr., and when the strike was happening, we wrote to him and said, Hey, can you come talk to the black folks in Chicago and tell them not to cross this picket line? Because this is an employer that wouldn't have employed them two weeks ago. And they are just being used to undermine these workers that are out on strike. And MLK wrote a letter, which we have a copy of, and he did that work for us, and the workers did not cross the picket line, and the workers won. And then when the workers won, they knew they had to continue this fight, right? So they had workers, black workers, apply for jobs, and they were turned down for jobs, and they pressed charges against the company for discrimination in hiring practices. right? And this took years to resolve. But in the end, the workers took this moment of struggle and of solidarity that happened when MLK had their backs and helped the black community in Chicago have their backs and allowed that to improve their workplace by hiring people from all sorts of diverse backgrounds. And they became one of our most diverse locals. But unfortunately, that shop is closed. Right? This is one of the ways that capitalism and capitalists can undercut us. They can move work and why it's important for us to think about international solidarity and not just solidarity in one specific location. A more recent example would be at one of our food co ops in Vermont where, uh, the employer was really proud of having hired refugees in that area. Uh, but then all of a sudden they wanted to impose an English only rule in the workplace. So these workers wouldn't be able to speak the, their first language with their co workers, even in behind the scenes spaces like kitchens or loading docks. And our members said, no way. And they filed grievances, but a grievance is just like a piece of paper that's like a written complaint. So they didn't just stop there, they had buttons on, and they made it a big public campaign. Because this employer had been profiting In the community off the idea that, Hey, we're so great. We employ these refugees who have come to our community, but under what conditions? So the workers won. They fought back that English only law in their shop. And people can speak whatever language they want in that workplace. Right. But that's just that this one specific employer. Right. So that's why we have to constantly think about what's an example that might that we might be able to bring broaden out to other folks. But we have to start with where we are.
Elton LK:
Thanks for listening to CLASS, an official podcast of the Democratic Socialists of America National Political Education Committee. Thank you to Casey Stikker for sound engineering, theme music, and editing. And to Palmer Conrad for help with content and administrative work. If you're inspired by anything we've been talking about, If you think the system is rigged and democracy is the solution, join DSA. Become a member. If you're already a member of DSA, please share this podcast with your local chapter. Class is intended to be a resource for chapters and members to articulate, apply, and share socialist theory with DSA and the wider working class. Also, remember to rate and review us on iTunes or your favorite podcatcher.
