Flight Paramedic and Podcast Host, Samantha Brawley

When I hear the words “flight paramedic” I immediately think of aviator glasses, compact spaces, aircraft propellers, jumpsuits, highly trained professionals, and a general sense of badassery.
Enter Samantha Brawley. As a flight paramedic, she cares for the sickest of the sick, and the occasional walking, talking patient, who may just be her favorite, wink, wink.
We discussed the team she works with, the procedures in her scope of practice, the territory she flies, and the mental capacity it takes to process things she can’t unsee. And then she told us about the camaraderie.
Before flight paramedicine, Sam worked for over a decade in fire and EMS. When she left the 911 system, she missed the shared experiences of getting off shift late, hanging out in the charting room, and talking shit with her co-workers. So, she started the very popular 911 Nonsense podcast and now shares that camaraderie with her guests.
And let’s talk about her guests. Sam has clinched some high-profile guests from James Geering, former firefighter turned podcast host of the Behind the Shield podcast to Jenn Hamilton,  L&D nurse, women’s health advocate, and Instagram influencer. However, some of the best guests are everyday men and women who serve humanity, like Ryan, a firefighter battling PTSD and advocating for the mental health of his fellow firefighters, Dr. Macias, a wilderness medicine enthusiast, and Kelly, a NICU respiratory therapist who educates healthcare professionals. There’s one thing for certain, any guest on Sam's podcast is bound to be great.
In the five-minute snippet: Sam’s got some explaining to do. For Sam's bio, visit my website (link below).
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Transcript

[00:00] Michelle: When I hear the words flight paramedic, I immediately think of aviator glasses, compact spaces, aircraft propellers, jumpsuits, highly trained professionals, and a general sense of badassery. Enter Samantha Brawley as a flight paramedic. She cares for the sickest of the sick and the occasional walking, talking patient who may just be her favorite, wink, wink. We discussed the team she works with, the procedures in her scope of practice, the territory she flies, and the mental capacity it takes to process things she can't unsee. And then she told us about the camaraderie. Before flight medicine, Sam worked for over a decade in fire and EMS. When she left the 911 system, she missed the shared experiences of getting off shift late, hanging out in the charting room, and just talking shit with her coworkers. So she started the very popular 911 Nonsense podcast and now shares that camaraderie with her guests. Sam has clinched some high-profile guests from James Geering, former firefighter turned podcast host of the Behind the Shield podcast, to Jen Hamilton, labor and delivery nurse, women's health advocate, and Instagram influencer. However, some of the best guests are everyday men and women who serve humanity, like Ryan, a firefighter battling PTSD and advocating for the mental health of his fellow firefighters. Dr. Macias, a wilderness medicine enthusiast, and Kelly, a NICU respiratory therapist who educates healthcare professionals. There's one thing for certain, any guest on Sam's podcast is bound to be great. In the five-minute snippet, Sam's got some explaining to do.  Well, hello, Sam. Welcome to the podcast.

[02:31] Samantha: Thank you. Good morning, and it's good to see you again.

[02:36] Michelle: Same. Right. I was going to say good morning, then I remembered it's the afternoon, so it's like I never know which way is it.

[02:44] Samantha: And me neither.

[02:45] Michelle: Well, you're very busy. First of all, I appreciate you coming on. I was on your amazing podcast back in December of 2023, and that was a lot of fun. So we said, let's have more fun. And you come on my podcast and tell all of my audience everything that you do as a flight paramedic and a podcaster. So we want to get to that, too. But just start by telling us a little bit of your history. Like, what's your story? What, how did you start out? And what are you doing now?

[03:23] Samantha: Awesome. So my name is Sam. I'm the host of the 911 Nonsense podcast. I have been in EMS for going on 20 years. Next year will be 20 years. You know, I got into the volunteer fire department at a very young age. I started applying at the age of 17 and got in after I turned, shortly after I turned 18, and I've been doing EMS ever since then. I absolutely love it. I love what we do. And, you know, there's a couple of decisions that have to be made when you're continuing your career, especially in EMS. And I don't know if you've interviewed any other EMTs or paramedic clinicians, but you kind of get to a point where you have to decide if you want to continue being a paramedic and continue in the EMS world or if you want to move on. And natural progression is either becoming a nurse, a PA, or a doctor. It is opening up a little bit more. And if you continue as a paramedic, your kind of top goal is a flight paramedic. So I decided to go ahead and stay with my career, and I've been flying for the last five years and I thoroughly, thoroughly enjoy doing it.

[04:34] Michelle: That's amazing. There are some similarities there. First, to answer your question, I did interview a gentleman who is now a nurse and was an LVN before that and started out as an EMT. But I think it's so interesting that what you said about the progression, you, you start in the field and then it's like you get to a certain point and then it's kind of an expectation that you're going to further your education and so you decide to stay in flight. And so we're going to talk about that. So first of all, let's talk about who's on the care team. When you are flying and you're in, do you do fixed wing and helicopter?

[05:24] Samantha: So I will tell you that you will never, ever get me into a helicopter. I am fixed-wing only. I, you know, even, even that took a level of courage that I didn't think I had when I started. But yeah, fixed wing only. And when we fly out, I have usually a nurse with me. Sometimes it can be another paramedic and then two pilots.

[05:51] Michelle: So fixed wing only, I'm with you. First of all, I don't like flying. And second, I don't think I could ever go, and I'm a little claustrophobic, so I don't think I could get in the back of a helicopter either. But man, I just give you guys props. My sister, I interviewed my sister on this podcast, Jennifer Capocella. She's a longtime flight nurse and always really appreciated her love for it. And I was like, are you sure we're sisters? Because we're so different. Like, I would never do that. So. Okay, so you and a nurse and two pilots. And so I actually, in preparation for this interview, I told my sister that I was going to be interviewing you, and I said, pretend you are a podcaster. And what question would you ask Sam? And so she came up with this question. I thought it was kind of brilliant, because I said, oh, yeah, I want to know that, too. So she said, how do you balance or divide the care of the patient with allied health professionals? So you and a nurse, do you have overlapping scopes of practice, and can you both do the same things, and how do you decide who's going to do what? Talk about that.

[07:23] Samantha: Okay, that's a great question. So, basically, in a flight setting, and I can only speak for the experience that I have, which has been two different flight companies. And in those settings, both myself and the nurses are basically at the same level. So we are expected to be able to do the exact same things and to be able to treat the patient in the same way possible. Most people who understand the dynamics between paramedics and nurses know that paramedics are generally going to have, you know, a better management and better time with airway, as opposed to the nurses who usually are really good at drips, medication management, and all of that. But it is expected that we both have the same level of knowledge and that we both at least learn to be proficient in the other's role. When it comes to divvying up, it really just depends on the flight. If it's good, like a simple BLS, ALS flight, usually the one who's charting kind of kicks back in charts while the other person is tending to the patient and managing patient care and all of that. But granted, we are in a small space, so if something changes or if it's a critical flight, then it's kind of when you have a good partner, you're managing the patient together, and you're both just kind of doing what you need to do and communicating well with what needs to be done.

[08:56] Michelle: Yeah, I was chuckling there because of your statement, about how you kick back, and I thought, wow, how much can you kick back?

[09:05] Samantha: Not much.

[09:06] Michelle: Small space with a critical patient. Right?

[09:09] Samantha: Not much. Yeah.

[09:11] Michelle: Right. Well, talk about that teamwork. Like, how important is that to really be able to get along with your team members and coordinate the care of a very sick patient?

[09:24] Samantha: It is important, and it can be kind of difficult sometimes when you have newer providers or people who. And when I say newer providers, right? I'm speaking newer to flight because to come into a flight world, you have to have at least three years of experience in either the ICU or in the ER. So these aren't new providers by any means. They're just newer to flight. And sometimes that can be hard, especially if they're not used to that dynamic, that change, because it's not like we're just treating the patient in one position, right? We're constantly changing. We're in the ambulance and then we're in the plane, and then we're ambulance and then we're turning over care. But sometimes our care starts from the second we walk into the ER room. If that patient's not being managed correctly or not managed enough, then we might have to step in and kind of start that treatment. Or if, you know, they just need a different change of medication, we start that treatment as soon as we get there. So sometimes that can be hard for nurses and paramedics to be able to have that dynamic role change. So it's really important to have a good role model, whether it be a nurse or a paramedic for those patients and for those newer crew members.

[10:44] Michelle: Yeah, I would imagine that you know, I mean, long-time nurse, getting along with your coworkers, with your colleagues, especially in those critical situations, is just vital. Right. And there's a lot of things going on in the back of an ambulance, in the room of a, you know, 25 weeker or in a fixed wing, it's a lot of tension and, you know, you've got to keep your, you got to keep your cool and. Not easy to do sometimes.

[11:18] Samantha: No, and I mean sometimes. And this isn't, you know, I don't want to, I don't want to make anybody sound bad or look bad, but the way that I've been taught and unfortunately, in some of the systems that I've been, I've learned to be very proficient on my own. So when I do have that partner that maybe doesn't understand or isn't as proficient as I am, then I'm, you essentially kind of babysit, right? Where you're training, you're training this person. And that can be hard. It can be really hard to train and treat critically at the same time. Not everybody has that. So when you're in, especially out in, you know, where I'm from, New Mexico and you're out in a rural area, sometimes you do have to only depend on yourself because you have to know how to take care of those patients. Does that mean you always get along with your nurse partner or your paramedic partner? No, but hopefully you can at least get along well enough to be able to treat these patients in the way that they need to be treated.

[12:21] Michelle: You only have yourself to be responsible for. And so it's like, be the best you can be. And I totally get the thing about training another person, you know, on the one hand, people need training to be brought up to a certain standard. On the other hand, when you're in an emergency, when you're in a small space, when you are doing procedures, it's really, really tough. And it takes a really insightful practitioner to realize that, to keep their cool and kind of carry on with that. So that's a good point that you make. When you guys fly what's your territory? Like, how far can you fly?

[13:18] Samantha: So we can fly anywhere. We are limited by a smaller airplane. Right. So fuel capacity, fuel level, we're limited by that. But that doesn't change anything. I mean, if we went far enough somewhere where we had to refuel, we literally would just park, unload the patient into an ambulance because you can't have patients on while they're fueling the airplane and then reload the patient back onto the airplane. Now, is that something that we do very often? No, it's not. Typically. We try to stay around the surrounding state. So we do a lot out of Arizona, Colorado, and Texas. We can go into Oklahoma. We do some Nevada trips, but we're not limited as to where we can go. We can pretty much go everywhere.

[14:10] Michelle: Wow. Okay. I didn't know that. I thought there might be a territory. That's very cool. So you could be on a flight for a few hours.

[14:20] Samantha: Oh, yeah.

[14:22] Michelle: Yeah, man. Again, props to you.

[14:28] Samantha: Yeah. With no bathrooms, right?

[14:31] Michelle: Right. Like, where's the little Porta potty? Nope, not there.

[14:35] Samantha: They have one. The pilots just won't be very happy if you use it.

[14:41] Michelle: Right on. You guys all have to share that space, right?

[14:44] Samantha: Yep. Yep.

[14:46] Michelle: Oh, my gosh. Okay, well, let's talk about experience. What type of experience do you need before you become a flight paramedic and how much experience? You touched a little bit on, you know, you need at least two, three, four years. But what type of experience do you need?

[15:10] Samantha: So for a paramedic, they typically want three to five years in a high call volume 911 system or three years in the ER experience.

[15:23] Michelle: Okay, and so where did you get your experience?

[15:28] Samantha: Oh, girl. So I worked in the 911 system for large number of my years in my UMass career. I started out in the 911 system and then I did some community paramedicine. I've done some tactical paramedicine as well. And then I moved into an ER after it was probably close to ten years. I switched to the trauma facility here and I worked in the trauma center as an ER paramedic. And that was quite a dynamic role as well. We did a lot of as the paramedics in this facility specifically. I've not seen it anywhere else in any other facility. But you are very dynamic in that ER where you could be doing bed management, you could be doing EKG monitoring. So you're in the monitor room all night. You could be in the trauma room, or you can have your own set of patients where you can run three to five patients for a night in the ER, or you're doing all of it. You know, sometimes we were so short-staffed that you were doing all of it after the ER experience. That's when I started flying. I got into a flight position.

[16:42] Michelle: So you have quite a varied background of experience before you get into that. And that makes sense. You know, you want somebody with that. So I saw that you have your Bachelor of Science in EMS and your certification as a flight paramedic. Is that something that's required for the job or is that kind of extra? Talk to that.

[17:08] Samantha: So a bachelor's is not required for the state of New Mexico. There are a couple of states, Washington and Oregon, I think are two that do actually require you as a paramedic just to run in the streets with a bachelor's. Most companies also require that within two years you obtain your critical care license, whether that is FP-C, so your flight paramedic certified, or your critical care paramedic, so your CCPC, and then even the CFRN. So for nurses to get their certified flight nursing license, most companies require two years.

[17:47] Michelle: Okay, well, what kind of shifts do you work, Sam?

[17:53] Samantha: So I was at a company where it was actually very unique, and we did 12 hours. We did twelve-hour shifts and it was two shifts on, two shifts off. Five shifts on, five shifts off. At the time I thought that was fantastic, right? I get to go home every night. This is amazing. Like twelve-hour shifts. This is great. It becomes very taxing.  It can be taxing, especially when, like, you get off late on a twelve-hour shift, because in the flight world. When you get off late, it's typically not 30 minutes. You're looking at 2 hours to 4 hours or you're just not going home for the night. And that can be kind of rough. The new company that I just started with, we actually do 24-hour shifts and we do one shift on, one shift off, one shift on, and then five shifts off.

[18:45] Michelle: Wow, that's a huge difference.

[18:47] Samantha: Huge difference. I cannot tell you what day of the week it is most of the time right now, my wife and I are trying to adjust to this new schedule and I have no idea what's going on. I have no idea.

[18:58] Michelle: What day is it? Is it morning? Is it night? That's crazy. Yeah. You know, so true about the, when you, when you get, get off late, right? I remember my sister talking about, you know, them taking a call at the 11th hour of a twelve-hour shift and being on that call for five or 6 hours and then getting back and having to chart for one or 2 hours. And, that's what leads to exhaustion, right? So when you are exhausted and fatigued, but you have to do the job, how do you push through that?

[19:41] Samantha: So Kames requires that if you are fatigued, right, you, if you're, you know yourself, right? That's a very important part of flying, is that you know yourself and you know your level of energy, you know your level of whether you're sick or not. So a big thing is if you have been flying all day and you've had, I say, flying all day, even if you've been flying for 14 hours, and 14 of those hours, you only had two very critical care patients. Like that is mentally taxing. You are allowed to say, I am too tired for this, I need a break. And they are legally required to give you a four-hour downtime. And in that 4 hours, they cannot text you, they can't call you for anything, you can't do anything. You don't even chart in those 4 hours. You take those 4 hours and hopefully get the sleep that you need to get. Again, that is something that requires a lot of emotional intelligence and it also requires people to not take advantage of the system, right? So say you're on a 24-hour shift and you haven't done anything for 16 hours, you're in that last 8 hours and you're getting a flight in that, you know, you know it's going to take six to 8 hours. You can't call fatigue and say, well, I haven't done anything all day, but I'm tired because I don't want to get off late. That can be rough. But legally they are required to leave and have 4 hours if you call fatigue.

[21:10] Michelle: Wow. Okay. That's something I was not aware of. And I think that could only be a good thing, right? If it's used properly, yes. Yeah. Wow. Okay. So what about pediatrics? Do you, do you fly pediatric patients and what kind of pediatric experience do you have?

[21:34] Samantha: So we do fly pediatric patients. We tend not to take neonates only because we don't have, we don't carry baby carriers. So the ones that keep them warm, we don't have that ability. What we have is the heater and some blankets so we can take them in a car seat or we have the Pedi-mate to set them into the bed if we need to. And then my pediatric experience is just through what I've already been doing. So through the 911 system, I've taken a couple, you know, I teach PALS. I also have taken S.T.A.B.L.E., and I've taken NRP for the last several years. So it's, that's pretty much what my experience is limited to. I wouldn't say I'm very proficient. You know, Peds is always scary.

[22:27] Michelle: Yeah. Long time Peds nurse and I was always scared.

[22:31] Samantha: Yeah. It's no good when you're saying you're scared.

[22:35] Michelle: No, no, for sure. But that's a lot of experience. Just, just the PALS, the S.T.A.B.L.E., and the NRP. Like, that's a lot, especially if you're teaching it, you know, you're just constantly in it and so you have that sort of, I guess, experience even if you're not getting a lot of true pediatric experience.

[22:59] Samantha: Right.

[23:00] Michelle: But yeah, let's talk about some of the procedures that you do. And so I was looking at some of the procedures that flight paramedics can do, but I'm just going to read off this short list and then just talk about if you do any of those and if it varies by state or how it works. So rapid sequence intubation, ventilator management, needle thoracostomy or chest tube insertion, central line placement, Intra aortic balloon pump management, pericardiocentesis, titration of vasoactive meds, and administration of general anesthetics, paralytic sedatives, and analgesic medications. That's a long list. It was actually not a short list.

[23:56] Samantha: It's okay. Out of the whole list, there are only two that we don't practice. So we don't practice placing central lines, and then we don't do pericardiocentesis. Everything else, though, that we do practice with. But just because we can't do those procedures doesn't mean that we don't monitor patients having those. So if they have a central line or if they have multiple central lines, you know, we. We will manage that pericardiocentesis. One of the only ones that we don't do.

[24:25] Michelle: Okay. But you would obviously transport a patient with a chest tube or something like that.

[24:30] Samantha: Oh, yes. Yeah. And we can do the thoracotomies as well.

[24:33] Michelle: Okay. Okay. Do you have a favorite procedure that you really enjoy doing?

[24:42] Samantha: That's a good question. I think as the paramedic in me, I'm just going to say airway management is one of my favorite things. So in the field, we're actually not allowed to. In the state of New Mexico, RSI, you can get it as a special skill. So some places that may be more rural do get the ability to RSI. I don't know very many that do. But having become a flight paramedic, getting to RSI has been really cool thing. And I've actually gotten to do it a few times, which is really neat. And it's kind of scary. Right. Because you're pushing those meds and you're taking this patient's ability to breathe away, and that can be quite scary.

[25:24] Michelle: Yeah. Because you better get that airway in, right?

[25:27] Samantha: Yes, yes.

[25:28] Michelle: Yeah. I love how you said, like, you really dig the airway management, and I'm so happy to hear you say that. I never worked with paramedics, but in the NICU, we worked with respiratory therapists, and they were dedicated to the NICU, and it was so fun because of that teamwork and they have that set of skills that we don't have. Like, we can manage an airway, but we can't insert an airway, stuff like that. So it was just really cool working with professionals that have these skills that you just kind of sit back and go, man, I'm kind of glad you're doing that. And I'm not doing that. And they do the same thing with us, right?

[26:11] Samantha: Yes, I mean, we have to like something about what we're doing. That's why we're doing it, right?

[26:18] Michelle: Yes, absolutely. And I think we all each have our different favorite things. So, speaking of favorites, do you have a favorite patient to transport, if there is such a thing?

[26:34] Samantha: I've been doing this a long time, a really long time. I like the super-easy patients. I love critical care. I really do. But like I said, that is very mentally fatiguing and it's fun and it's challenging, and that's fantastic. But I, to a point where I'm like, oh, you can walk and talk. Why don't you walk right up these stairs? Let's have a conversation. You know, I love, I love the super easy ones. They're easy to chart and get rid of. And it's not to say a lot of people assume that when patients are flying in an airplane that it is a critical flight, and that is absolutely not true. We take and can take anything from BLS to critical care, and we do have a huge variety of patients that we transport. So it is really cool. The dynamic is still really cool. We're getting to take a lot off our plates as flight paramedics and even as flight nurses, where you're not having to see the ETOH patient multiple times a night, you're not having to deal with the psych patients that are trying to punch you in the face because they don't understand, they're confused or they're just super angry or high on drugs. It's a nice break to get away and then to have such a wide range of changes with that patient care.

[28:05] Michelle: Yeah, I bet that would be kind of a relief. Yeah. I love it. And I love your honesty.

[28:11] Samantha: Yeah.

[28:12] Michelle: So have you been in the back of a plane where a patient maybe became disoriented for some reason and became combative? Has that happened?

[28:25] Samantha: Yes. So in the last company that I worked for, we actually flew quite a few psych patients. One of the rules for flying psych patients is if they are agitated, we don't take them. Right. We don't want to be in the middle of a flight and having to sedate and restrain because it's only you and your partner, and you don't want to be the only two. And risking your life, your partner's life, and your pilot's life. Right. Because that's a huge, huge no-no. Does it happen sometimes when you're transporting? Yes. And the easy fix, you know, is chemical sedation. With physical sedation, if we absolutely need to, we try really hard not to, but sometimes you just don't have that option. So I think you'll find that most companies do carry physical restraints and then a plethora of medications for chemical sedation.

[29:23] Michelle: I love it. The plethora of medication. Yes, that we love. Have you ever been in the back of a fixed wing and had any problems with the aircraft itself? As you know, you lose an engine or you hit some bad turbulence. Does anything like that happen mechanically?

[29:50] Samantha: Nothing as far as losing an engine. I've been in some really rough turbulence. I would have to say that flying into Denver sometimes is the worst turbulence that you'll get. And when you're in this tiny little airplane, you're like, I really hope the airplane doesn't fall apart. Right now. This would just be a poor location. Right? There are mountains everywhere out there.

[30:13] Michelle: Yeah.

[30:13] Samantha: But they're. They're very structurally capable, and they're meant to take on that amount of turbulence. It's actually very impressive what these little planes can handle, and, you know, knock on wood. In the last five years, we've had to make one emergency landing, and it was because one of the wheels wasn't coming down, but we were able to land, and everything was fine. No issues there.

[30:45] Michelle: Again, man, power to you guys. That's really amazing. Yeah. I echo Denver. So my daughter lived there for four years, and I flew in there every few months, and it was like clockwork. We would get about 30 minutes from landing, and the pilot would come on, and he'd say, it's gonna get a little bumpy here. And then boom. It did. And the bumpiness would last, you know, sometimes 15-20 minutes.

[31:18] Samantha: Yeah.

[31:18] Michelle: And you're absolutely right. You look down, and there's just those snow-covered mountains, and you think, am I gonna have to be like, you know, eating my partner? You know, like that? I can't think of the hit movie, you know, where they got stranded and.

[31:37] Samantha: They ate each other. Yeah.

[31:39] Michelle: Yes, yes. But, yeah, totally. And. And I was in a huge airliner. You know, I can't imagine being in. In a smaller plane, so. Yeah. Well, you get all my respect for that. Okay, let's see what else I have here. You as a flight paramedic. Well, you can tell me if this has happened where you've seen things that you can't unsee, that are very traumatic, that are very sad. I'm sure in your EMS history, you could attest to that. But what happens when you have trouble processing those things? Like, what do you do to maintain your mental health?

[32:31] Samantha: That's a good question. So I've been lucky. You know, my wife and I have been together for also going on 20 years. She's kind of seen me throughout my whole, you know, paramedic and EMS career. She has been my rock. So if something is bothering me, I know that I can go and talk to her. I also know that sometimes that's not enough. So I can. And I know I can lean on, you know, partners or coworkers or whatever if I need to. And then, you know, there have been a couple of times where I've had to utilize EAP. Do I suggest EAP? Sure, if you need it at that time. I don't suggest it as a, like, continuous follow-up because usually they're not trained for the type of trauma that we see as first responders, but it's good to know and look up those types of providers that we have in our local areas, because of that. That is something that needs to be processed correctly. I also have a couple of hobbies where I like to go out and, you know, go hiking and go metal detecting and gold panning and old man hobbies.

[33:51] Michelle: I love it. That's awesome. Wow. You know, and no matter the hobby, it's important that you have a means to kind of offload some of that stuff, right? And for some of us, it could be painting or crafting or, you know, CrossFit or, you know, whatever it is that you need to process that that's okay. And whether it's, like, old man hobbies or old lady hobbies, you know, that's fine. You have to have it in. Yes. I have never been in the EMS community, but I have suddenly, through meeting yourself and some other people, following them on social media, you know, it's. Things have come to my attention. And one of the things is that many therapists are not trained to counsel people in the medical profession. And that means paramedics, firefighters, nurses, physicians, you know, whoever those roles, they have specific challenges. And if you're not trained in that, there's only so far that you can go to help that person. So it's just vital that you find somebody in your community who has experience treating somebody in your profession.

[35:31] Samantha: It is paramount. Michelle, it is paramount. It's definitely a red flag when you are sharing your feelings and your stories and you're having to kind of protect yourself because the counselor is crying, you know, like, you shouldn't feel that way. And there's not. I can't say that they're out there in abundance, but definitely, if you are struggling to find somebody who has the ability to, you know, take you on as a patient and deal with your traumas, ask around, because a lot of the time, your fellow coworkers or partners or whoever might have that in, and they might be able to give you a suggestion for somebody, and, you know, we're in such a time now that we have telehealth where if you don't have somebody locally, you can get on the phone and call and see if you can find somebody via online or through again, you know, telephone or through telehealth in general. It's just, it's opening a lot of doors for people. And that's wonderful. It's wonderful.

[36:38] Michelle: Yeah. And there's, there are organizations like Debriefing the Front Lines, and the Overwatch Collective, I know @copshrink on Instagram. So there, there are resources out there for specific, for people in specific professions that specialize in that, that know exactly what you're going through and exactly what you need. So definitely, I like your point on telehealth. Like that person, you know, if you live in a rural community, you know, it might be hard to find therapists for law enforcement officers. Right. But there is somebody like that somewhere and, and you can connect with them.

[37:23] Samantha: I interviewed a gentleman named Chris, and he actually just started a new, new program where he's connecting people and he's doing a lot of really good stuff. And his is called Mind the Frontline. And if you need help and you need those resources, he is actually working on getting people listed in specific states. So he might not have your state right away, but he can at least help you get connected with somebody close by, which is really cool.

[37:55] Michelle: That's awesome. Yeah. Send me that link. I would like to add that to the show notes.

[37:59] Samantha: Sure.

[38:01] Michelle: So I want to go back to your history for a moment because some of the stuff I was reading was like, you were on the SWAT team, is that correct?

[38:10] Samantha: I worked with the SWAT team and I did tactical paramedicine. And so we responded anywhere in the state with state PD if they thought they were going to need a paramedic. So I did that for a couple of years. It was really fun.

[38:29] Michelle: It sounds really fun if you're an adrenaline junkie.

[38:35] Samantha: Well, I'll tell you, your adrenaline doesn't last very long when you're having to drive, you know, 3 hours across the state to respond to a SWAT stamp fire or something. It can get kind of rough. Out of all of the stuff that I got to do with the tactical team, I think that you know, even just the training was amazing. We got to do a lot of training with the bomb squad. We got to do a lot of training with the helicopter response team, and we got to do a lot of training with the canines. So I was actually trained to be able to intubate, to do EKGs, to do IV's on the canines. I could commandeer any ambulance in the state to transport one of the canines if the canine was injured. So it was a really cool, really, really cool experience.

[39:19] Michelle: That is so cool. One of my questions for that is, have. Were you ever called to a swatting incident?

[39:28] Samantha: A swatting incident? No. Is that when they are, they're calling for somebody else?

[39:35] Michelle: Yeah.

[39:36] Samantha: Yeah.

[39:36] Michelle: There have been some famous ones where, like, you know, gamers were pissed off at each other, and one of them called the police and said, I'm going to kill myself or I have a bomb and I'm going to blow up my house or whatever. And the SWAT team arrives and. Yeah. So you never got called to one of those?

[39:54] Samantha: I wasn't personally, but maybe one of my co-workers was. No, I didn't go on any one of those.

[40:03] Michelle: Okay. And then I also see you have a history as a firefighter. Do you want to tell us about that?

[40:10] Samantha: Sure. That's actually what started my career. I got into the volunteer fire department. I was with them for three years. I absolutely loved my time as a firefighter, and that's probably what really promoted me to move on with my EMS experience because when I was 18, I was deciding, you know, my dad was a cop, and I really looked up to my dad, and I was kind of debating whether or not I should be a copy or kind of go down the firefighting route. And I was actually also signing up for the military. But I took the test for the volunteer fire department and I passed and got accepted. And I ultimately ended up going down that route and have loved the medicine ever since. You know, I got it. You get into firefighting and 80% to 90% of your job is EMS. And as a Basic, it's kind of really frustrating when you're sitting there and all of these other intermediates or paramedics or flight paramedics or whoever happens to be on the scene, that's a higher level than you get to do all of these really cool things. And it's not to demean being an EMT basic. I mean, you essentially are saving those paramedics asses most of the time. But I wanted to be at that higher level. I wanted to be the one doing the airway. I wanted to be the one giving the meds. I wanted to be the one doing all the stuff. And that was what promoted me into being a paramedic.

[41:39] Michelle: Love that story. So firefighting is kind of like a gateway to other things.

[41:46] Samantha: Yes, yes. For me, some people get into it and they do, you know, they do their 20 years and they retire. And I'm not going to say that I'm a little miffed or anything, but it, you know, this year would have been my 20 years, and I would have been able to retire this year if I had stayed in with the fire department and I didn't, and here I am. So.

[42:11] Michelle: Right. But look at the life you've made for yourself.

[42:14] Samantha: Exactly.

[42:15] Michelle: Yes.

[42:16] Samantha: No regrets here. No regrets. Just a little bit of anger.

[42:21] Michelle: I love it. Well, let's talk about your podcast because you are the host of a very popular podcast, 911 Nonsense podcast. But tell me, what was your purpose for starting it?

[42:37] Samantha: I really, really missed my co-workers. So when you're in the 911 system, it's such a dynamic role and it's really cool because you get to see so many different people and I missed that. At the end of the day, you have that camaraderie. You get to hang out while everybody's in the charting room. You're all getting off late. It's a really, it's just been a crap day, you know, a really frustrating day. And now you're. This is another form of de-stressing where you're hanging out and you're talking shit to each other and you're one-upping each other. And I missed that camaraderie. So I thought, okay, well, let's get a podcast started, and let's kind of make it kind of like that, where you just get on with somebody and you bullshit for an hour or so and get to hang out with your friends and, you know, de-stress together? Why not de-stress together, share stories, talk about the best part of your job, the worst part of your job, and everything else in between? And that's how it started. My wife was like, why don't you just do it? Stop saying you're going to and just do it.

[43:46] Michelle: You know, sometimes we need somebody to push us like that, right? Like, we can talk about it all we want, but the people that really know us and love us kind of get tired of hearing all the, you know, I wonder if I could do this. And they're just like, yeah, just do the damn thing, right?

[44:04] Samantha: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[44:06] Michelle: Wow. See, so, you know, like you, I retired and I missed, exactly what you said, that the camaraderie, just everything about my daily life as a nurse. And, you know, so I was like, I want to stay connected, so I'm going to start this podcast. So, lots of similarities there. So what's your process? Like, how do you find your guests?

[44:38] Samantha: Now you're just asking for my secrets. I'm just kidding. No, I'm actually really annoying. I just keep asking people till they say yes.

[44:49] Michelle: I think I had asked you, and we'll talk about this in a second, because you've had some high-profile guests, but one of them was James Geering, the host of the Behind the Shield podcast. And I remember when you were doing your preview for him, and I texted you, and I was like, oh, my God, how did you get James Geering? And you were like, I just pestered him. I just, you know, was annoying. And I was like, can you rub off on me a little bit? Because I need some of that, you know, somebody tells me no, and I go, okay, okay. You know, and I'm just like, I would love to have you, but okay, if you don't want to, that's okay. I love it. I love your persistence. That's. That's great because you know what? You can't get what you don't ask for, right?

[45:44] Samantha: That's very, very true. And I really am not as annoying as I make myself sound, but I don't have any problem asking, either. You know, I think people in general are really bad about limiting ourselves. Because we're afraid of that. No. Or because we're afraid of being shot down in whatever we're trying to achieve starting this podcast has been very, very eye-opening. A lot of people, some of the guests I've asked, what's one of your biggest regrets? A lot of them say that they wish they would have started sooner, doing what they wanted to do, but a lot of them didn't feel that they were good enough to do what they wanted to do. So they waited, and they waited and they waited. And my podcast might. You know, you say it's big, but to me, it's small. And it might be small, but I don't have any problem going out and asking people, man, I've been trying to bag Nurse John for a long time now. I've. I have been pestering him. But, like, Jen Hamilton. I got Jen Hamilton on, and she was not too hard to ask, and it was fantastic. And she came on, and we had a great time. James Geering was great. Yes. James Geering was great. You know, I didn't. I honestly didn't even realize how big he was when I was asking him. D. D. Finder told me to reach out to him, and that wasn't bad at all. I mean James and I text. Not often, but we do text now, like a friendship. I think it's just really cool. The people you get to meet when you're getting to interview them and learning about them and who they are. And, man, I've had such a great time. We just passed our one-year anniversary, and I blew out the rooftop with all of my goals in the last year. It's just been absolutely amazing.

[47:40] Michelle: Wow. Congratulations. That is. And that is something, you know, first of all, the year goes by really fast. And when you look back and you see, like, the whole progression to where you are now because starting a podcast is not an easy thing, right? It's like, there's the social media bit of it. There's all the technical part of it. You know, what kind of microphone do I need? What program do I use for this? What. How do I edit? So it's a lot of learning new things, and then it's a lot of just constantly putting yourself out there and, you know, asking for people to be on your podcast. And so the growth that takes place in that period is just huge. And again, when you look back and you look at all of the people that you've talked to, the range of people that you've talked to, and what you've learned from them, it's just amazing how your world has just opened up. It's just one of the most fun things ever. And I love it. Like, you're talking about you and James Geering texting. He is the kindest, sweetest, man. He has the best manners. It's like whenever I message him on Instagram, like, he gets back to me usually, like, within a few minutes.

[49:18] Samantha: Yes.

[49:19] Michelle: And that, you know, and you don't see that a lot. You know, a lot of times, people are people where he is. They have other people managing their social media for them. So you're never talking to that person. Right. But I reached out to him because I felt like it was the right thing to do, and he was just hilarious. I told him that I wanted to start asking my guests what he asks at the end if there's anyone that they recommend as a guest on this podcast and if that would be okay. And he was like, go ahead. Like, I'm not the first person that's asked that. And I said, but you're the first person that I've ever heard ask that. And I just wanted to be respectful, you know, and he's like, do it. You know, just like such a kind, such a kind person. In addition, so much experience, so much insight, and so much advocacy for the firefighting, not just firefighting, but, like, everybody. EMS, nursing, medicine. He's on our side. He is pushing for us. So, yeah, he was amazing. I loved hearing his episode, and you were a guest on his podcast, and I loved hearing that episode, too.

[50:45] Samantha: I thought that was so cool. That's awesome. He made me very nervous, and it wasn't him. It's just he is very popular. He's very high up there, so he has a presence.

[51:01] Michelle: It's a very demanding presence. And I love listening to him because, first of all, I love the English accent, but he just, like, his questions are just so. I don't know, they're so thoughtful and love it. I'm a big fan, and I thought you did great. I couldn't tell if you had nerves or anything.

[51:25] Samantha: Yeah, that's great. That is nice to know because it felt a lot worse than it actually was, I guess.

[51:34] Michelle: Yeah. Sometimes we don't realize, you know, we think we're coming off one way. But I, you know, as somebody who's listened to a lot of podcasts, like, I was like, you know, in the background reading for you.

[51:46] Samantha: Yes.

[51:46] Michelle: Sam, this is awesome.

[51:49] Samantha: Do you have a different dynamic, too, when you're asking versus being the person asked? Right. It's a huge, huge dynamic change. And I think, if I remember correctly, I was. He was the first person I interviewed with, and to have such a huge show to interview on was. It was very intimidating. So I'm glad to hear that it wasn't that bad. I can't, you know, I just make fun of people when I interview them and they're like, I'm probably not going to listen to this. I don't like to hear myself talking, not coming from somebody who listens to my episodes at least four or five times before I put them out, just to make sure the editing is done and sounds okay. I couldn't listen to myself on that podcast. Wow.

[52:36] Michelle: Yeah. That's so funny. It is definitely harder to be on the other side of the mic, and I've been on a few podcasts, and it's. I definitely get more nerves when I'm the one in the hot seat, right?

[52:52] Samantha: Yes. Yes.

[52:54] Michelle: Talk about the most emotional episode that you've had to date. Is there somebody that really just jumps out at you as being very emotional?

[53:04] Samantha: That's hard because a lot of my episodes are very emotional.

[53:09] Michelle: True.

[53:10] Samantha: I don't. Yeah, I don't think I could say anyone specifically, because they have. They've stuck out. There are so many. I think probably Ryan's episode, and I believe the title of his was The Bad Calls Are Haunting. So I think that that one, for me, is the most profound. And I'll say why I think it's the most profound. A, because currently I'm a flight medic and I fly on airplanes, and then b, because I couldn't imagine being in his situation. But he describes being dispatched out to, I believe it was a fire, like, in a little, like an arroyo or ditch. And it's the middle of the night, so it's really dark, and they're responding out, and he gets out and steps into, like, he steps onto an arm or leg. It's a body part of some sort. So they're going up to this fire, put the fire out, and as they're going up to the fire, he's stepping on more body parts, and he's so confused, and he can't figure out, like, what's going on. It was the middle of the night, and it ended up being a plane crash, and they couldn't put the parts together till the next morning. And my, like, that one kind of stuck with me because it just, again, because I'm a flight paramedic, you know? And it'd be really sad to be in a position where you, like, don't even get found until the next morning. You know what I mean? So all of those people's families had no idea what was going on until that next day, and they. None of them had survived. So that was, that one was pretty emotional. They're all pretty emotional. As I said, that is one of the questions. It's a hard question to ask what your worst qualities are. And I'm so appreciative to everybody who's been on the show and everybody who has shared their experiences with me because we can only learn and we can only be better from what we hear and what we know and what we learn from other people.

[55:16] Michelle: Yeah, that is so true. And I think that's one of our main, as podcasters, is our motivation.

[55:23] Samantha: Right.

[55:23] Michelle: To keep going. It's like, you meet somebody who has this information and you want to get that disseminated, so. Oh, that's rough. Thank you for sharing that.

[55:35] Samantha: And that's not even my story.

[55:37] Michelle: Right.

[55:38] Samantha: You know, that's somebody else's story, but that one was hard to listen to.

[55:43] Michelle: Well, yeah, because you can connect with it, because, like you said, you're a flight paramedic. And, you know, I'll go back to my sister again. Being a flight nurse for many years, you know, while she was flying, I probably never prayed so much just for her safety and the safety of all those on board. And now that she's the program director of the flight company that she formerly flew for, you know, she's doing that. She's doing the praying. And I, you know, I see the effect when, you know, in that flight community when they lose a crew to a crash, and it's. It's completely devastating. It's just devastating on so many levels and something that I just couldn't imagine.

[56:37] Samantha: No, not at all.

[56:39] Michelle: Yeah. Well, what does your future look like? What's the future of your podcast? Where is it going?

[56:46] Samantha: Well, I hope it's only going up, but we'll see. That's a good question. We just switched from four episodes a month to two episodes a month. I think we've gotten to a point where we're popular enough that people are going to listen no matter how many episodes we put out in a year. And let me tell you, we had to grind. We had to grind those episodes out. We put out 51 episodes last year, so we only missed one week, which, for a brand-new podcast, is amazing. That was fantastic. Especially trying to figure out schedules. Right. And I will say, like, my podcast is doing as well as it is because of the team that I have. You know, my brother-in-law, Tyler, he does all of the editing for the episodes, and then he'll. He'll shout out some ideas or give me ideas after listening to episodes. And then I have my wife, who also helps with maintaining social media and doing a lot of the graphics for the announcements, literally all the announcements. She figures it all out and helps with it. She's so good at social media stuff.

[58:00] Michelle: I love it.

[58:02] Samantha: I love the new announcements.

[58:04] Michelle: Me, too.

[58:05] Samantha: I love them so much. The neon. I just love that.

[58:08] Michelle: No, that just popped out at me, and I messaged you, and I was like, oh, my God, I love your new graphics. And you gave all the credit to your wife. 

[58:18] Samantha: She does it all. I can be where we are without this team of people that I have and the amount of support that I've had from my family and from my wife's family. It's been just utterly amazing. And I think, you know, going on in the future, I think our goal is always to kind of try and get some of those high-end people. But I also don't want to forget the people who are at my level and the EMTs who are on the streets and the nurses who are in the ER's. And I really want to continue to make each episode their own story about who they are, what they do and how things have shaped them to be where they are today.

[59:00] Michelle: I love that. Yeah, that's beautiful. Okay, well, here's the question for you. Is there someone you recommend as a guest on this podcast?

[59:12] Samantha: If Chris hasn't reached out to you yet, I strongly suggest Chris from Mind the Frontline. I also suggest Rob Arietta. He's actually a firefighter here, and he does Skulls for Hope, which is a very great local resource for a lot of our providers that are here in Albuquerque and the New Mexico area. So I strongly suggest those, too. If you haven't heard from them yet.

[59:41] Michelle: Yes, I would love to connect with them. Thank you so much, Sam. Well, where can we find you?

[59:49] Samantha: So you can find me on Instagram, on Facebook, and Twitter. 911 Nonsense is the handle for most of those. Our Facebook is 911 nonsense all spelled out, and we have a great Facebook group page that's pretty interactive, and we have a good time on there.

[01:00:11] Michelle: Very cool. I will put all those links in the show notes, and, you know, we're at the end, so it's time for the five-minute snippet. It's just five minutes of fun.

[01:00:23] Samantha: Sounds good.

[01:00:26] Michelle: Sam, thank you so much for coming on. I just so appreciate it. I have really enjoyed your perspective on flight paramedic flight medicine. It's been a pleasure, and I have loved hearing your secrets of podcasting, and I might steal some of those. So thank you.

[01:00:47] Samantha: I do try to share everything with everybody. You know, one of my buddies, Kevin McFarland, hosts the podcast The Art of Emergency Nursing and how not to kill your patients. And he told me, he's like, just do it. Just record your episodes. Put it out. You'll have a blast. Trust me. Just do it. And now, you know, I have since had friends who've started their own podcasts, and that was my same advice, like, just do it. Just get out there. So if you ever have any questions, please feel free to reach out. Especially you, Michelle. I've got your text. You know, I've got your phone number. You can reach out whenever you want. It's been an absolute pleasure getting to meet you and to have you on my podcast. And then, too, in return, via your podcast. I really appreciate it.

[01:01:32] Michelle: Yeah, same, Sam. Thank you so much. Okay, five minutes of fun. I'm starting the timer now.  Okay, favorite board game or card game?

[01:02:25] Samantha: There is a card game called. And I am brain-farting so bad right now. I can picture it,  it's a purple box.

[01:02:36] Michelle: Is it Cards against Humanity?

[01:02:38] Samantha: No. And believe it or not, I never played that.

[01:02:43] Michelle: Your friend Gaby, she loves that game.

[01:02:46] Samantha: I know.

[01:02:48] Michelle: She told me about it.

[01:02:51] Samantha: I love Gaby so much.

[01:02:53] Michelle: Oh, my God. She's coming on. I think this week her episode airs. 

[01:02:59] Samantha: Let me go grab that card game really quick so I can't remember the name of it.

[01:03:03] Michelle: Okay.

[01:03:04] Samantha: It's gonna bother me.

[01:03:06] Michelle: I always love a good card game.

[01:03:09] Samantha: I know. Five crowns. Have you played that one?

[01:03:12] Michelle: No. Five crowns. Okay.

[01:03:14] Samantha: Yes. It's amazing.

[01:03:15] Michelle: Sweet.

[01:03:16] Samantha: Okay. It's a little bit of a banger to get used to, but it's so much fun.

[01:03:21] Michelle: Oh, that's good. I like those.

[01:03:23] Samantha: Yeah.

[01:03:24] Michelle: Okay, do you have a favorite movie candy?

[01:03:28] Samantha: Popcorn. I don't usually get candy. I just eat the popcorn and then we get a Slurpee.

[01:03:36] Michelle: That's candy in a cup.

[01:03:38] Samantha: Yes.

[01:03:40] Michelle: I love Milk Duds. That's my favorite. Okay, cats or dogs?

[01:03:48] Samantha: I like both, but I prefer dogs. I can't have either because my wife's allergic.

[01:03:52] Michelle: Oh, yeah. Okay. Do you have a favorite app on your phone?

[01:03:59] Samantha: Oh, that's a good question. As cliche as it sounds, TikTok.

[01:04:05] Michelle: Do you think it's going to be banned?

[01:04:08] Samantha: I think they could try. 

[01:04:12] Michelle: Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking the same thing. I was like, there's going to be a lot of flack from that.

[01:04:20] Samantha: Okay. I think even if it gets banned, it'll get remade.

[01:04:23] Michelle: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Okay, here's a  Would you Rather. Would you rather buy ten things you don't need every time you go shopping or always forget the one thing that you do need?

[01:04:38] Samantha: I think I'd rather buy ten things, because I know that I'll use them at some point.

[01:04:45] Michelle: I love it. Okay. What's a favorite hidden gem in your city that few people know about?

[01:04:54] Samantha: If you ask the local people, the Sandia cave is not in the city, but it's just outside of the city, and that place is amazing. It's really cool if you want to get into some of the history. So it's actually a cave on the side of a mountain, and they put up a spiral staircase so that people could access the cave. They actually had to put a cage on the outside of the cave because it had a huge number of suicides for people just climbing up there and jumping off. But the actual cave is beautiful and getting to go into it, you can actually find some really old artwork in there. Oh, my gosh. And if you climb in a little bit further into, like, the main cavern part, you can see all the bats and stuff. It's fun.

[01:05:42] Michelle: Wow. It sounds a little bit like Carlsbad Caverns maybe?

[01:05:47] Samantha: It is nothing compared to Carlsbad, okay. It is just one single cave with a couple of, like, it's got one passageway, and you go into, like, the main cavern, which has baths, and that's it. It's really small. If you've ever been to Carlsbad Caverns. Carlsbad Caverns is amazing.

[01:06:03] Michelle: It is pretty huge, right? Yeah.

[01:06:05] Samantha: Yes.

[01:06:07] Michelle: Okay, favorite adult beverage.

[01:06:10] Samantha: You know, I really enjoyed Twisted Teas up until a week or so ago. I found the Arizona teas that are alcoholic, and those are way better.

[01:06:21] Michelle: Okay. Waffles or pancakes?

[01:06:25] Samantha: Waffles for sure.

[01:06:28] Michelle: Love or money?

[01:06:31] Samantha: PR answer, because my wife's probably going to listen. Is love, for sure, but my baby.

[01:06:36] Michelle: She's waiting way too long on this. This is a long pause.

[01:06:41] Samantha: I'm a hustler.

[01:06:43] Michelle: All right, last question, because we all have one favorite burner on the stove.

[01:06:50] Samantha: That's always the big one. It's the big one that heats up all the way. All the coil.

[01:06:56] Michelle: Really fast.

[01:06:57] Samantha: Yes. Yeah.

[01:06:58] Michelle: The fast burner. Mine's the front left, which is actually the smallest one. I just like that one. It's perfect.

[01:07:06] Samantha: But I think our front left one is the biggest one, too. Our front left is the big fast burner.

[01:07:12] Michelle: Okay.

[01:07:13] Samantha: I like looking at it.

[01:07:16] Michelle: I love it. Sam, you did so great with the five-minute snippet. It was fun, right?

[01:07:22] Samantha: Yes, it was fun. It's always fun.

[01:07:24] Michelle: I love it. Yes. I have a lot of fun. It's just fun to be silly sometimes because what we talk about a lot is serious, so got to have that balance, right?

[01:07:34] Samantha: I agree.

[01:07:36] Michelle: Yeah. Well, thank you so much. What do you have planned for the rest of your evening?

[01:07:42] Samantha: We're getting ready to move, so I've got to start working on address changes. I know, it's terrible. My apartment's empty right now. We're moving this week. So that is it.

[01:07:56] Michelle: You're like a flight paramedic, moving and a podcaster?

[01:08:01] Samantha: And teaching.

[01:08:02] Michelle: Teaching. Oh, my gosh. Let's add some more to your plate. Well, you've been awesome, and I thank you so much. So whatever you're doing, have a great rest of your day.

[01:08:11] Samantha: Well, thank you, Michelle.

[01:08:12] Michelle: I hope you have a great day, too.

[01:08:13] Samantha: Thank you so much for having me on. It's been a pleasure.