The New RN, Dave Dovell

As a student nurse or a new RN, Dave Dovell is someone you should know. Dave is a registered nurse working on a Progressive Care Unit, with a diverse work history that includes being an executive chef, an educator, working in the 911 system and the emergency room. And his story of why he became a nurse? Let’s just say it will put you in an, “I’m not crying, you're crying” situation.
Dave is known as the New RN and his Instagram is chock full of nursing hacks, study tips, and nursing stories to help the new nurse transition to the new role.  According to the American Nurses Association, almost 18% of new nurses leave the profession within a year due to stressful working conditions, lack of leadership and supervision, and understaffed facilities.
Dave's book, Brand New Nurse: Surviving Your First Day on the Job, should be mandatory reading for all new nurses as it covers topics like transitioning to night shift, professionalism, communication, organization, and time management. These are aspects that nurses don't learn in school. However, it's also a valuable read for seasoned nurses because whether you've been a nurse for two years or twenty-two years, you can probably recall feeling unsure, inept, disorganized, and exhausted during your first weeks and months on the job. As a profession, we have a responsibility to invest in our nurses and help them have fulfilling careers by mentoring them.
In the five-minute snippet: Bring on the rain! For Dave's bio, visit my website (link below).
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Transcript

[00:00] Michelle: As a student nurse or a new RN, Dave Dovell is someone you should know. Dave is a registered nurse working on a progressive care unit with a diverse work history that includes being an executive chef, an educator working in the 911 system and the emergency room. And his story of why he became a nurse? Let's just say it will put you in an,  "I'm not crying, you're crying" situation.
Dave is known as the new RN, and his Instagram is chock full of nursing hacks, study tips, and nursing stories to help the new nurse transition to the new role. According to the American Nurses Association, almost 18% of new nurses leave the profession within one year due to stressful working conditions, lack of leadership in supervision, and understaffed facilities.
Dave's book, Brand New Nurse: Surviving Your First Day on the Job, should be mandatory reading for all new nurses as it covers topics like transitioning to night shift, professionalism, communication, organization, and time management. These are aspects that nurses don't learn in school. However, it's also a valuable read for seasoned nurses because whether you've been a nurse for two years or 22 years, you can probably recall feeling unsure, inept, disorganized, and exhausted during your first weeks and months on the job. As a profession, we have a responsibility to invest in our nurses and help them have fulfilling careers by mentoring them.
In the five-minute snippet: Bring on the rain! Well, good morning, Dave. Welcome to the podcast.

[02:13] Dave: Thank you so much for having me, Michelle. I'm excited to be here.

[02:16] Michelle: Yes, I'm excited for you, too. And I'll say, I say good morning because it's morning where I am, but it's afternoon where you are so good afternoon.

[02:23] Dave: Good afternoon.

[02:26] Michelle: Yeah, we met on Instagram, which has been a wonderful platform for meeting all kinds of professionals. And some of my greatest guests have come from Instagram. So love it. Love the platform. Saw what you were doing and it's like, oh, this is really interesting. So, first of all, you have a really interesting story of how you became a nurse. So I'd love you to share that with our listeners.

[02:56] Dave: Yeah, I would love to. Nursing is a third career of mine. I initially was inspired by my high school history teacher to go to school and become a teacher. So that's what I did right out of high school, got a bachelor's degree in history and then a secondary teaching certificate so that I could be a high school history teacher. When it was surprisingly difficult to find a job teaching history, I had to make some money because the jobs that I was getting in education were not coming close to paying the bills. So I started to work in restaurants. That ended up becoming my full-time gig for a while, I worked my way up. I served as a general manager of a restaurant for a while. I was a catering manager for a baseball team, and I was the executive chef at a country club for a short while. And through all of this, I had a very, very close friend. He's my best friend. His name was John, and he was like the brother that I never had. So we were inseparable. We would go to Phillies games together and camping trips and all these things. Shortly after his 30th birthday, John was diagnosed with leukemia, and he fought that cancer for 13 months. I was always busy working in the restaurant and everything, but I did my best to visit him as often as I could and spent a lot of time in the hospital with him. During that time, I observed his nurses, and I didn't know much about nursing as a profession at that time. And I was so impressed. You know, they really weren't just coming around wiping butts and handing out pills like a lot of people might think. It's. It was incredibly complex what these nurses were doing. They were titrating his medication. Sometimes he had six, seven, eight different things up on his IV pole. They were transfusing blood and platelets. They were explaining his lab values to him. They were coordinating with social workers and members of the medical team on his behalf. And for his 31st birthday, I think a lot of us knew that it would probably be his last birthday. Things just weren't going well, and just everything was a domino effect. You know, one problem would lead to another, and those nurses threw him the best birthday party you possibly could. They had it in a conference space, so it was nice and big. Plenty of his nurses came in on their days off. They were in their street clothes. They brought food, and they arranged for the Philly Fanatic to come and visit him, which, you know, everybody from other corners of the country, in case you're unaware, the Philly Fanatic is the absolute best mascot in all of professional sports. And so for him to come out, and John was such a big Phillies fan, it was. It was incredible. And when he passed, the impact that those nurses had on John, I wanted to be in the position to have that impact on other people. They made a world of difference. They made the 13 months that he fought his disease as pleasant as possible. They were there for him. They supported him, they advocated for him. They made sure that he wanted for nothing. And I was so impressed. And I said, what better way to take something so terrible as the loss of my best friend at such a young age and try and pull something positive out of it than to embark on this career in nursing? So that's what I did. The cut-off for the nursing program that I attended had already passed, and so I showed up to the Dean's office with coffee, donuts, and a bouquet of flowers. Long story short, I got in and I told her, I said, I don't want to waste any time. I have all these college degrees and credits and things behind my name. And I explained my story to her, and I said, I need to do this right away. You know, I was able to knock out all my prerequisites in one semester, and three, or four months later, I was in a nursing program.

[07:19] Michelle: That's amazing. I am finding myself very emotional hearing your story. I just feel so much pride for the nursing profession, and I feel like we don't always know our influence, right? And people are always watching us. Yeah, that's an amazing story. Once I read it, I was just like, wow. And then to hear you talk about it, very, very emotional, and you can be quite convincing with your donuts and coffee.

[07:59] Dave: And I've never been below bribery. And it's, you know, it's something. Those nurses, I don't remember any of their names, and I'm not even sure if I could pick them out of a lineup, but I remember what they did for John and for them, you know, that was part of their job. That was a shift. You know, maybe they picked up that shift. Maybe it was just a scheduled shift, and it was a Tuesday or Thursday or something, but they just got ready, like everybody else in the world does that morning, and they got dressed and they went to work, you know? But unlike most other professions, nursing is very unique in that we have the opportunity to witness miracles. We witness tragedies. We witness the best and worst of humanity. I mean, it can be very extreme in that regard. And that's why it's so important, I think, to engage in the profession in this way. Having conversations with one another, listening to and participating in podcasts and publications and all the things that go on outside of the clinical environment, because the profession is that big. It's a huge scope, it's a huge scale, and we need to be able to share these stories with each other, because otherwise, we may not be as good as John's nurses were. We may forget our why. And it's absolutely paramount that we don't forget our why.

[09:42] Michelle: That is absolutely true. And, you know, when you were talking about John's nurses, you know, celebrating his birthday and stuff like that, it shows you saw them, in one sense, as very professional practitioners. Right. And then there's that connection that we have with our patients who are people and their families. And those things make us want to celebrate that person, to celebrate parts of their life, whether they're having a baby or it's their last birthday. I think that also is the power that we have as nurses to connect deeply with our patients, with their families, as well as being professionals. So, amazing, amazing story. And I can't tell in the slightest that you're a Phillies fan.

[10:42] Dave: Yeah, definitely. Definitely a Philly sports fan. Although it is funny, one of the things I had to contend with during nursing school was because it was so intense and I was still. I was working full-time through nursing school. I was working overnights in an ER as an ER tech, and I was still volunteering on the ambulance in my town. And because I was an adult and this was my third career, I had a house and responsibilities and all those things. So I had to give up watching sports completely in order to ensure that I was passing my tests and making adequate study time. So really something. So a couple of years of giving up watching sports, I am still not completely back in the swing of things. You know, a lot of times I miss games and things like that, and it's kind of tough to make that water cooler talk at work when, you know, I'm just not back in the habit of watching everything.

[11:38] Michelle: Yeah. And don't forget doing all of those things along with that. You are still grieving, right?

[11:46] Dave: Yeah, it was an emotional experience for me. There were definitely one or two lectures during my first semester of nursing school that I came really close to having to excuse myself. I mean, I got through it, you know, but when we talked about hospice and palliative care and things like that, I remember exactly where I was when I got the phone call from John's brother and he told me that John was electing to have everything turned off and just be made comfortable. I remember exactly where I was. I was working on the ambulance. I was sitting in the shotgun seat. My partner had gone into a Chinese place to grab our dinner. And when she came back to the truck, I could barely get words out and I said, I have to get to the hospital. We have to get this shift covered.

[12:43] Michelle: So I love that you, that you advocated for yourself in that time, because a lot of people would have just said, you know, well, this is my first responsibility, and, you know, I'm on the job. And whether they would feel bad about leaving their partner or whatever, but you're like, no, there's a priority here, and it's my friend.

[13:05] Dave: So what's one of the other things we can take for granted sometimes in our profession that coming from the restaurant background and everything, it, you know, even education, I mean, when you're, when you're the teacher, when you are, when you're the chef, you know, the dining room manager, usually it's just you. And so, you know, when, when things come up, you're stuck a little bit. Fortunately, with nursing, most of the time, you know, we are working as a part of a much larger group of colleagues. And so just logistically, as we go through life, it is, it is a profession that allows us to be there for life's most important moments, whether they're good or bad. You know, you can usually get that shift covered, which is, which is definitely something that I enjoy in nursing much more than I did when I worked in the restaurant industry.

[13:58] Michelle: I love your story because of such a varied background, your teaching, your restaurant work, your EMS work, all of that work. Do you think that that helped you be a better nurse? Do you think that contributed to the nurse that you are today?

[14:19] Dave: 100% it did. And, you know, those experiences for anybody who is, you know, maybe listening and is not a nurse yet, but they aspire to be one, you know, I would really encourage them to put yourself in a position now to start gaining experiences that will help you eventually in that career. Most professions, most jobs will lend themselves in some way to nursing. Even if you're waiting table somewhere, I mean, look at look at the workflow of a restaurant server. You're running, bustling on your feet. You're managing multiple tasks at once. You're prioritizing. You're dealing with tons of different personalities. You have to know how to talk to the chefs and the cooks. You have to know to talk to the hostess. Otherwise, they're going to not seat your section all night. You'll go home broke, and you'll definitely have some strong, strong personalities in the dining room with your, with your guests as well. So all of those skills, they really do lend themselves. I know, working in the kitchen, you know,  that gave me the ability to think quickly. And then I took that with me when I started on the ambulance and I noticed a difference there and then. EMT work, 90% of your assessment of a patient happens as you're walking up to them before you've touched them, before you've spoken to them. You know, you really, through experience, you start to develop an instinct about certain things. And, you know, the verbiage we always use was, are they sick or not sick? And in EMS you could respond to anything from, you know, I've fallen and I can't get up to something doesn't feel right, but, you know, it's anywhere. Dissection or it's a stroke you run the gamut in those fields. And all of those experiences helped me out in nursing school and they helped me as a nurse. I mean, the education background alone, the teaching element of being able to have the pedagogy to assess a learner, you know, that's not just a patient, they're a learner. Their family members are learners. The folks that are taking grandma home and said, we're going to take care of her, you know, once she's discharged, what do we have to do? How do we use this equipment? How do we know if, you know, if x, then y, and when should we call for help and be able to put things into the right terminology for people and teach it in a way that's effective. I definitely think that my background in education gave me an upper hand in that. And so that's where I try to model, especially when I precept new nurses. I try to model some of those skills and always explain the why, you know, what I'm doing. Well, let's start with a conversation about how somebody learns best. You'll have people that come from an academic background. You have patients who have master's and doctorate degrees. You'll have people that are high school dropouts and everything in between. So how are we going to make sure that all the same information gets disseminated to these people in an effective way so that when they do go home, they're safe and their care is going to be self-managed in the best way possible?

[17:38] Michelle: Yeah, I would think so. Many of the professions, when you're people professions, I guess you would say transfer really well to nursing because you have to learn all those skills. Like you said, in the restaurant industry, in the education industry, you're working with people, you're communicating, there's hierarchies, right? And so all of that transfers and one of the best nurses that I ever worked with had a former career as a teacher, and I think it really translated so well to nursing. All right, so you on Instagram, you're The New RN, right? And you have, you have The New RN blog, and you're also an author, which we're going to get to your book, but I want to know, what was your experience as a new nurse?

[18:35] Dave: I had a very positive experience coming into nursing. I was very driven by the reasons that I got into the profession in the first place. It was even easier because I had met a wonderful, wonderful young woman when I was in my first semester of nursing school, and I ended up marrying her. So we went through the experience together. She jumped ahead of me in the nursing program. They offered a summer course.  She could jump ahead and do an accelerated thing with the summer program. I had bills to pay, so I was using my summer to work overtime. But so going through with her and having somebody, you know, they say misery loves company, so anytime there's a big exam coming up or we just had to say no to all of our friends every time something was going on because we had to study, you know, it was nice to have somebody to share that experience with, and it's still nice. She's a very successful nurse. She's working right now. She's the assistant nurse manager on a trauma step-down unit. And our dinnertime conversations, we were able to vent to each other about work and part of how unique nursing is, especially hospital nursing, it's. It's definitely not. I can't imagine not being able to relate to somebody like that and to be able to vent and have that person really, truly understand what it is that I go through on a rough shift, I lose a patient. A lot of other people, if. If they have a rough shift, that's because of an invoice got sent out wrong or a delivery wasn't received. In my old job, I'd burn a couple of scallops. They'd get sent back. I'd make new ones. My experience coming in as a new nurse, as a brand new nurse, not only did I have that support at home, but at the hospital where I worked, I got brought onto a very, very busy cardiac unit, basically a cardiac PCU, although they didn't have that designation, which meant that our ratio stayed up around six to one. But we took everything from Amiodrip's to Cartizem and titrations and Milrinone, all different kinds of things. And the preceptors on that unit, the veteran nurses, I'll shout them out. This way I can make sure I get them to listen to this. John and Wanda and Virginia, all those experienced nurses kind of guided all the new nurses as they came in. They were tremendously supportive. The nurse educators over there were great. Looking back on the experience of starting there, it gives me a lot to think about and a lot of messages to convey to new grad nurses as they're going out and getting interviews for jobs. And, you know, at the end of these nursing interviews, you're always asked, you know, what questions do you have for us? What an opportunity to hone in on what kind of a hospital and what kind of a nursing culture you may be getting hired into new grad nurses or anybody looking to change jobs in nursing. When they ask you that in an interview, have some questions ready. Talk about the nursing culture, talk about if they have some really well-trusted, well-liked nurses on that unit, what qualities make them the top nurses on the floor, and kind of talk about the educational support that's going to be available, the opportunities. Not all hospitals are the same. I was very fortunate to come in that hospital there. It wasn't without some shortcomings, but in terms of supporting a new nurse coming in, it was pretty impressive.

[22:27] Michelle: Those are great pieces of advice for new nurses. And one, I just had an interview recently with Alex Whitefield, and he is The Break Nurse. He co-invented a software program called Break Algo, and that was one of his points was new nurses or nurses changing jobs or whatever. During that part of the interview, when they asked, do you have any questions for us? He said, yeah, you need to ask about breaks, like, are your nurses getting breaks? And I thought that was just really valuable. And there's been a lot of press coming out on stuff like that, just about the culture of nursing. What kind of unit is this? What kind of support will I have? Those are crucial questions for the new nurse. So it sounds like you had a great experience as a new nurse, but what advice would you have for new nurses who are having kind of a difficult time transitioning out of nursing school into that now new job?

[23:45] Dave: Well, I think the most important first step is if you are wrapping up your orientation shifts and you are feeling defeated, if you're feeling discouraged, you should really try to hone in on what the specific causes of those feelings might be. What are your biggest challenges? Because it's going to be different for everybody. Some people have that academic, that book knowledge coming in. They know their lab values, and they know the signs and symptoms of different processes. But time management is a huge, huge part of the workday. Maybe it's time management, maybe it's communications. Maybe every time you pick up the phone to call the doctor, you don't feel prepared to have that conversation. Maybe you had a couple of physicians who were rude to you on the phone as a result of it. Maybe you're not clicking with your preceptor. Maybe you need to have a conversation with your preceptor to evaluate what the expectations are in your relationship. Sometimes people have strong personalities, and there were preceptors where I, I started out that some were better than others and not everybody always got along, you know? So that's another great interview question is basically how will I be checking in with leadership as I go through my orientation? Because it's mutually beneficial for you as the new nurse and for the hospital system that you get the most out of your orientation. So the interest is there to make you successful. They hired you. They're paying you to show up and learn, so they definitely want you to be successful. Some hospitals want you successful quicker than others. A lot of people feel like they're being rushed through. That's another question. What happens if this orientation, which, let's say it's eight weeks, what happens if I get to the end of eight weeks and I don't feel comfortable going off on my own? What steps are available for me? Because different hospitals are going to have different answers there. Where I work right now, all new to-practice nurses, all of them are hired and they are immediately enrolled in a nurse residency program that they complete, in addition to their orientation on the hospital unit where they'll be working, it is classroom, it is round robin type, visiting different units, watching medical procedures, familiarizing themselves a bit more. And when that program wraps up, they are still linked to a mentor, not their preceptor. It's a different person. And that mentor is like their lifeline. If your hospital, if you work at a hospital right now and you don't have a program like that, I can tell you suggesting it would be a great idea because our new nurses love it and they feel supported and they'll tell you, they say, yeah, I don't know how I would have done this without Dave, without Michelle, without whoever that mentor person is for them. And that's the other thing, too, that we all have to remember whether we're a new nurse, a veteran nurse, six weeks out from retirement, we still have a responsibility to the new nurses coming through to kind of make things as comfortable for them as possible so that they can do their learning, you know? So getting back to the, your question, Michelle, is how do you, how do you overcome these challenges? What do you do if you're struggling during those first couple weeks on the job? Narrow down what, you know, what your biggest challenges are. Work out a plan. Don't be afraid to communicate. You just can't break in your nurse manager's office and start saying, I can't do this. I can't work with this preceptor. I need less patients.  Positive language and actionable steps. That's how you get things done in any profession. That's how you get things done in nursing. Keep positive. Say, I want to be able to do this. I want to be successful. What steps can I take? How can you help support me to get from where I am now to a level where I can be successful in those challenging areas?

[28:01] Michelle: Yeah, those are great actionable steps. And, you know, preceptors are so important for so many reasons, and I will say in, in my institution, and I'm sure this happens in other institutions, you know, some of our preceptors didn't volunteer to be preceptors. They were like, voluntold, you're going to be a preceptor. So I think when the relationship starts out like that, and these are nurses that are natural leaders and they're showing a lot of leadership, but maybe they didn't necessarily want to do that and they were told, you know, you're going to precept this new RN. I think the relationship can start out kind of rocky at times. And I love how you said that sometimes preceptors and preceptees don't really get along for whatever reasons, and it's okay to ask for another preceptor. And on the other end of it, some of our preceptors have said, I'm not getting along with my preceptee. You know, I need to back out of this arrangement. Or maybe we could switch whatever it is, because ultimately, you know, as preceptors, we want the new nurse to have a great experience. We really do. And sometimes just communicating that because of different personalities or whatever the issue is, it doesn't happen. And the new nurse deserves that, and the seasoned nurses deserve a new nurse that's coming on, that's open, that's willing to learn all of those things. So those are great. Those are great actionable steps. And that relationship, it just cannot be said enough how important it is.

[30:04] Dave: Yeah. And let's not forget, too, as a nurse, you're going to have, you're going to have patients that maybe you wish you didn't take that kind of patient. When you're in the acute care setting, you're going to have CWA patients, you're going to have psych patients that won't stay in bed no matter what you do. You're going to have people throw stuff at you. You're going to have patients that are, have fecal incontinence every hour. Okay? You're not going to fail those patients. And so if you are a nurse, and it's my opinion, but I do feel strongly about it if you are a nurse, part of your job is to help new nurses come into this profession. And I really wish that it was just in black and white right in the job description before people even sign up for nursing school. That's just how I feel about it. But I feel real strongly that just like we wear all these other hats, it's not just running around grabbing pills out of a Pyxis and handing them out. Not just about documenting assessments every 4 hours. Right? We're educators, we're advocates. We coordinate care among physical therapy, speech therapy, occupational therapy, nutrition, and dietary. We have all these other jobs. One of your jobs as a nurse is to help these new nurses come through. So I know, I've met preceptors that have been voluntold. They're going to do it, too. And they groan, and nurses that groan when they get nursing students assigned to them as well when the clinical crews come through. But I think it's part of our responsibility and the more we look at it as a part of our responsibility and the more that we get rid of the toxicity around because when you see one or two nurses groaning about it.  Imagine you're a brand new nurse. You're being precepted, you're grabbing a cup of coffee in the break room, okay? It's a busy day. You're 8 hours in, you peed once. You finally get to have a cup of coffee, it's probably sitting on the burner, it's burnt, and you're pouring your coffee. And two experienced nurses come in and they're both complaining. One of them is complaining that they have a student nurse assigned to them, and now it takes them three times as long to do anything because they're asking all these questions and the other one says, you think that's bad? I got a precept, this one because so and so is out. So now I have their orientee with me. You're creating toxicity that you're not necessarily. It's, you know, it's not like a bullying thing, maybe, but it's toxic, and new nurses are going to absorb that, and a lot of them are going to emulate that behavior when it's their turn to have the orientee, to have the student nurse, you know? So I would really like it if we'd all just knock it off and put on the same smile that we do when we walk in. And it's a really aggravating, frustrating patient. If you view a new nurse or an orientee in that way, put your nurse face on, suck it up, and show them the ropes a little bit, because we were all there. So it's a little absurd to think that you were in their shoes however many years ago, and now all of a sudden you have a problem with somebody coming in. Listen, if you're in a place with seniority for holidays, you need that new nurse to be successful if you want to have off for 4 July, so support them.

[33:29] Michelle: Yeah, I love that message. Can we just have a sign somewhere? Like, just knock it off. I love that.

[33:38] Dave: I mean, it's blunt, but I mean, come on. At a certain point, and I'd really like to think that in 2024, we've, for the most part, gotten away from the idea that nurses eat their young. But you still see it. You still see it. And you see, I don't like the terminology, but they use it a lot with HR and stuff. It's linear violence, you know, nurses against nurses, nurses bullying other nurses and things like that, throwing people under the bus. Nursing is hard enough as it is. Nobody wants to put their scrubs on and go in for their third shift in a row to some unit that has that toxicity. There are so many opportunities for different nursing jobs around. If you don't like the idea of coming into the hospital and potentially having an orientee, potentially having nursing students follow you around, if you're just that negative nurse in general, I kindly invite you to leave wherever you are, working as fast as you can and just find a job somewhere else.

[34:40] Michelle: Yeah, I really agree with you there, Dave. Over the decades that I've worked, I have seen the bullying, the lateral violence, whatever you want to call it, decrease, and it still needs to be gone. I feel it's still there. It still needs to be gone. And I interviewed Doctor Phyllis Quinlan a few months ago and we talked about bullying. And she said it's not going to completely be gone until institutions step up and make it a zero-tolerance kind of policy. And we know that's not happening right now. So new nurses are coming into a lot of environments that you said are toxic, and they need to really take a look at that and leave. If they don't like it, they either need to speak up about it or leave. They don't need to tolerate it for decades. But what do you see are some of the reasons why new nurses are leaving the profession after just maybe a couple of years?

[36:05] Dave: Well, it is getting better, but we saw, just a few years ago, we saw such terrible retention rates among first-year grad nurses. I was just in a committee meeting, and we were talking about this, and I forget what the national, the national percentage was, so you can't quote me on it, but I want to say it was somewhere around 24% of first-year nurses are leaving whatever their first job was and going to work somewhere else. I think that's astronomical because imagine how things used to be when you're a brand-new nurse. You'd be grateful that you got a job somewhere, and you really. I don't know, I'd be concerned about my resume. Right. Going someplace else and having to explain why I could only stay for a year. But COVID had a lot to do with it, and new nurses were coming in, and they were getting very, very overwhelmed. I think that was the primary issue, is just how overwhelmed new nurses were coming in. And it's directly because of the pandemic, it was directly because of the adjustments that their nursing school programs had to make. These nursing schools backed off of their clinical experiences. A lot of nursing programs completely canceled inpatient clinicals, and they found other ways to teach nurses the skills they needed so that they could earn that associate or bachelor's in nursing, you know, and move forward to the NCLEX. But they weren't at the bedside doing it, and they weren't dealing with human patients. And so that, I think, was one of the biggest challenges, that you were hiring nurses, that coming in for their interview was their first time stepping into a hospital, and their first day of orientation was the very first time ever meeting a human patient, you know, and so that right there, if you look at the experience that I had, in contrast to that experience, I took care of human patients as an EMT for a while. And then during nursing school, I got to do my clinicals. And during that time, I was full-time in an ER. So had even more patient care experience. So when I came in, I felt pretty confident I was not seeing that confidence in the nurses that we were orienting right after, like during and right after the pandemic. No confidence. And some things that you just, you really need those new nurses to be able to do. Drawing up IV medications, just the mechanical tasks of bedside nursing they weren't comfortable with. So that's a huge challenge because we need to be clear, you know, critically thinking. And if we're thinking about how to physically get a Lovenox shot ready, we're not thinking about all the other things, like, is my patient's weight in the system accurate? Are they getting the appropriate amount of Lovenox? Am I rotating the injection site? Is there a contraindication for this Lovenox? We need our hands to build up that muscle memory so that we can flush an IV without thinking about it. We can spike an IV bag without thinking about it. We should be able to perform a straight cath or bladder scan. All those things, those mechanical tasks, we should be able to do while our brain is focused on the higher level thoughts. And they just, they weren't there. Wasn't their fault, but they were very ill-prepared by the nursing programs. That was one of the big things that motivated me to create the blog, theNewrn.com, and then eventually to write the book, because, you know, we really needed some way to fill in those gaps that were being left behind by the nursing programs. Now that that has gotten a little bit better, I keep getting really positive feedback on the advice that myself and my contributors have been putting out there to new nurses. So we've kept it going.

[40:22] Michelle: Yeah, that's amazing. And I don't think a lot of us think about the effects of COVID on our new nurses, but exactly right. How they learned was subpar. And then they're getting jobs and we're expecting them to function as if they've been touching patients throughout their whole experience in nursing school, which was not the case at all. So you make a really good point, and I want to talk about your blog because it's amazing. But what kind of content are we going to see on there?

[40:59] Dave: I try and diversify my content. I dedicate everything on that blog to nursing students and new-to-practice nurses. But I've gotten a lot of positive feedback from experienced nurses, too. Some of the articles on there, I like to show everything from experiences. Some of the absolutely incredible, insane, sometimes stories that I encountered in the emergency room and while working on the ambulance and to some extent during my nursing career, you know, working in acute care, too. But study tips, ways to get organized, the absolutely anal retentive way that I use sticky notes to stay organized became an entire article on there, you know, and just, you know, encouraging new nurses to develop systems to organize themselves. And if one thing isn't working, try something else. I try and put out as much information as possible and just share things that I think are interesting and of value to the nursing profession. Above all, it can be very challenging to be a nurse, but I do believe that it is the best profession you can have. I've never looked back, and that's why I want to support it, you know, in any way that I can. You know, I love my patients. I, you know, 20, 30 years from now, wherever my nursing career takes me, I don't see it ever taking me to a point where I never touch a patient. You know, I never get to interact with patients, even if I end up in some sort of a leadership role or an education role later down the line, you know, so because that's always going to be, you know, I'm always going to stay focused on my why and, you know, keeping other new nurses on track and providing them ways to make their transition in nursing a little bit easier, you know, so that they can enjoy it and so that they don't lose sight of their why either.

[43:08] Michelle: Yeah, that why is just so important. And I love your blog for all those reasons that you talked about. And I feel like it should be required reading for any new nurse. But in addition to that, I feel like it should be required reading for seasoned nurses as well. Because as you mentioned earlier, like, we were all a new nurse at some point in our career, right?

[43:36] Dave: And a lot of us will be new nurses again if we change careers, if we change hospitals, if we change specialties. Yeah.

[43:45] Michelle: Yeah, you're absolutely right. And I just always felt like you that it was surprising how quickly we forget about what it's like once we have a few years behind us and things become more automatic. How difficult it was in the beginning where we had to really think about every little thing that we did. So I think it would be great for seasoned nurses as well to read your blog and your book. So let's talk about your book because your book is Brand New Nurse: Surviving Your First Day on the Job. But tell me about this book and why you wrote it.

[44:27] Dave: Well, this book is an evolution of an idea that I had to basically just collect advice from my own experiences and then also from other nurses, a varied level of experience and put it together. I initially was going to just put it together as a little mini ebook, but then as the ideas kept flowing and as my outlines grew bigger and bigger and there's just, there was so much information to put in, I took a look at it and I said, you know, ever since I was little, I always loved to write. And I think in the back of my mind I always knew someday I was going to write a book. Just never knew what it was going to be about. So I started looking into what would be involved if I wanted to take all of this information and put it together into a book. So this is the evolution of all of that. Brand New Nurse is a fairly light, easy-to-read survival guide for new nurses, whether you're new to practice. And, you know, that's the reader that I really had in mind when I wrote it. You know, you've gotten your very first nursing job ever and you're about to step foot in that hospital and you're about to take that elevator ride and you're going to meet your preceptor and in a matter of hours you're going to be in patient rooms and you are absolutely scared, terrified out of your mind. You're nervous, you're not sure if you should pack an extra set of scrubs in case you throw up in the car. I mean, you're very, very nervous. And I think that that kind of apprehension is something that many new nurses can relate to. And so, you know, this book is a little bit like a pep talk for that night before that, you can do it, you know, and, and let's try and fill in, let's try and answer those questions you may have. Let's try and fill in all those gaps for you so that by the time you close the book, shut out the light, put your head on that pillow, and get yourself a good night's sleep before your first day of work you can walk into that first shift confidently.

[46:47] Michelle: Yeah. Again, I really love it. And I love that it's a survival guide. And again, you know, required reading for really all nurses as well, to remember what that new nurse is going through, the anxiety, the worry, the fear to put us back in that new nurse's shoes so that when they come to us on the unit and they're not sure if they should call the doctor about this or, you know, whatever it is that we can remember what it's like to be a new nurse because it can be exhilarating and terrifying at the same time. So great. Where can we find your book?

[47:37] Dave: Brand New Nurse is available on Amazon.com. You can just search for the title and my name. You can also follow a link there from any of my social media platforms @thenewRN. And if you visit my blog @thenewrn.com.

[47:56] Michelle: And I will put all those in the show notes. Thank you for that. I wanted to touch for a minute on committees, because you yourself are on several committees. You are the co-chair for your hospital's transformational leadership council. You are chair of your unit's shared governance committee, and you are a member of the code blue committee. So first of all, bravo, that is amazing. And second, how important are committees, and unit activities? How important is it for new nurses to be involved in those?

[48:36] Dave: Well, it's an interesting answer to that. I would say that it depends. It depends on the hospital. And, you know, click your pens again because this is another interview question for you to ask. A potential hiring hospital, the hospital system that I work for, I feel. To say that I feel fortunate is an incredible understatement. I am so lucky to live near and to have applied to and now work for the hospital system where I work because it is a very nurse-driven system. It's not a small hospital system. We have five hospitals in our network, very nurse-driven. The previous president of our hospital was a nurse. I mean, he had all the letters after his name, you know, but was a nurse. And our committees pull a lot of weight. You know, we affect a lot of change around the hospital, and transformational leadership is. I became involved in that group because I think it's, it's one of the most important committees at the hospital. And, you know, we have a hand in changing policy. We have connections directly to the highest leadership at the hospital. Actually just had our committee meeting yesterday, and the new president of our hospital and the VP of the system came by and did a presentation and spoke to us, gave us his email address. You know, our chief nursing officer comes to every meeting, and there's sort of an open forum where we can dialogue back and forth about different things and get information, ask questions, and most importantly, everything that we ever bring to that committee. You know, there's closed-loop communication there. That means that, you know, if I ask a question about something, if I say, hey, listen, it could be anything. We, back when seasons were changing and daylight savings time had ended as it was getting colder, we talked about the shuttle buses in the parking lot changing their hours to, you know, to help nurses that were getting out of their shift a little bit later, maybe they had to stay for an extra hour, you know, making sure the shuttles were running during those times since it was dark out. And we took that to nursing leadership. Nursing leadership took it to the folks who, you know, manage buildings and security and the shuttle buses and that whole thing. We got CC'd on all the emails back and forth and they fixed it for us. You know, they made that happen. They said, yeah, it makes sense, you know, so I'm, I've been very impressed with the committees and, and just how effective they are. And so my experience, which, you know, not everywhere is going to be the same, but my experience on committee work is that not only is it an excellent, excellent networking opportunity, you know, for you to meet members of your leadership team, opportunities beget other opportunities, you know, so if you have the chance to work on a committee, you don't know what else is going to come down the pipeline, but you've already set yourself apart as one of the most engaged nurses they have because you're on committees. So they already know that if they come to you with an opportunity, there's a good chance you'll say yes, and those, there's a good chance that you'll be a good fit for that. Not everybody has the communication skills reliable enough and things like that. So if you can get on a committee, be an active participant and prove your value to your hospital or your organization, I think a lot of other doors will open for you as well.

[52:23] Michelle: Yeah. Again, I echo your sentiments. Just so, so important for showing those leadership skills. Initiative, it's a great way to learn about systems and other departments because we don't work in a silo. Right. It's a whole system. I have loved serving on my shared governance committees throughout the years. I just echo all those things. You just learn so much. And speaking of learning, we already know you're a great teacher, but how do you learn?

[53:02] Dave: I usually learn best with videos and auditory more than I will from reading alone. But it also depends on the material. I'm not much of a textbook reader, you know, but if I can submerse myself in material, that's something I did a lot during nursing school. I wanted to make sure that I excelled in nursing school. It meant that much to me and, you know, I was able to maintain a 4.0 all the way through and it was, it was a challenge, but I put myself to that challenge. I would not accept anything less than an A, and I did it by just submersing myself in the material. So what that meant for me was, you know, I would read the text in advance of the lecture, but the lecture would really help me because, you know, being able to listen to the instructor, get that auditory. Put it to the PowerPoint slides that were up there, as long as they didn't just stand there and read the slides. All right, so there's. There are two things that we're going to learn. One is every nurse is a preceptor. Okay, knock it off. Knock off the toxicity. The other thing is, if you're going to read me PowerPoint slides, it's an insult to my intelligence. I can read the PowerPoint slides. If you are presenting, please, I want to shake everybody by the shoulders. If you are presenting to people, if you're in a committee and you are presenting and there's a PowerPoint, I do not need to stare at the side of your head while you read me the slides. You're wasting everybody's time. Just another pet peeve of mine.

[54:39] Michelle: So true.

[54:41] Dave: But, yeah, the immersive learning, and it helps with everything. And, you know, right now I'm studying for my PCC, and after that I might get my CCRN, you know, and those are difficult tests to prepare for. And so, you know, instead of watching regular TV shows during nursing school, I was watching YouTube videos to supplement the lectures, you know, and watching, you know, if we're watching, if we're studying cardiac, you know, I would actually watch videos, you know, from university hospitals that would post on their channels about different procedures. You know, I'd watch an Afib ablation, I would watch a cardiac cath. And instead of the radio in the car, I listened to nursing podcasts like this one, you know, and I immersed myself. You know, I lived and breathed nursing. It doesn't work for everybody. You know, some people need to switch it off and take that break. For me, it worked because, by the time I took that test, I had seen the material presented in three, four, or five different ways over and over again. And so I had it, you know, I had it locked down.

[55:46] Michelle: Yeah. It just goes to show that there are so many different ways to learn, and if one way is not working for you, switch to a different way. And it's a great message to new nurses and really to everyone. And I love how you said every nurse is a preceptor because I have always maintained that we are all teachers, we are all students at one time in our life or simultaneously we can all teach something to someone and we can all learn from each other. And I think the more that we maintain that, it'll just keep us open to all those new experiences.

[56:27] Dave: And it's another great way to learn. I mean, if you, if you learn something and then turn around and teach it to others, and I'm sure that you experienced that a lot in your shared gov work. You know, when you're doing shared governance, a lot of that is sort of becoming the pipeline of information. You know, when you chair a shared gov committee on your hospital floor, in a lot of cases, you're the pipeline of information. You're the point of contact that the rest of the hospital is using to disseminate information to the staff on that unit. You know, so you're hearing of things first and then presenting that information during your shared governance meetings. So it gives you an opportunity, you know, to teach it. And in doing so, you know, you're going to make sure that you have most of those questions answered before you make your PowerPoint and hopefully not read it word for word to everybody. But, you know, before you present that information, you're going to make sure you anticipate some, some questions, have some answers, and you'll know it better than anybody.

[57:29] Michelle: So true. And it goes both ways. Right? So when you're on the shared governance committee, you're sharing the knowledge of what you're doing with your coworkers, with other people. And what was funny is staff who knew that I was on shared governance, they would come to me and say, hey, we have this problem here. Can you take it to the committee and see what, you know, what can be done with it? And sometimes I would say, well, why don't you come in and sit on the council and present your problem, or whatever it is to, to the committee? And, you know, we'll take it up and work on it. And sometimes they took me up on it and sometimes, you know, people are not there yet to be able to present something to a committee like that. But again, we could help them do that. Right? So that's great. That's a great message, a great way to learn and a great way to disseminate information. And I think those committees are so, so important. Well, we're getting towards the end, so I have recently started asking this question, and if you feel on the spot, you can say, I'll email you later, but is there someone you recommend as a guest on this podcast?

[58:48] Dave: That is a good question. Yeah. I mean, I can, I could rattle off a whole bunch of names for you, but if you're interested in what I can do, I'll put it into an email for you because I'll reach out to you. I'll reach out to those people and see if they would have some interest in doing it. But off the top of my head, I have the nurses that I had mentioned earlier who were my mentors at my first nursing job, who were absolutely tremendous, and my nurse educator. Actually, right now, where I work, we're kind of partners in crime right now with a lot of the committee work that we do. We work alongside each other. She's currently pursuing her doctorate, and if somehow she could fit it into her extremely busy schedule, I think you would really enjoy meeting her and getting to know her a little bit. I've never met a stronger patient advocate than she is, and I've also never met someone who advocates for her. Her. The nurses, you know, that. That she's responsible for absolute zero tolerance for any kind of. Like we talked about, the linear violence. There's absolute zero tolerance there. There's zero tolerance for taking any disrespect from medical providers. There's zero tolerance for any kind of violence or abuse coming from patients or their family members. It takes a lot of work and commitment on her part to do that. And, you know, I'm sharing all this information with you now because I think it's worth talking about, you know, for everybody to hear because, you know, whether you get to her name, Sharlene, whether you get to meet Sharlene on a future episode or not, you know, I really. I would really like everybody listening to kind of take some of these things away. You know, you don't have to work at a hospital that doesn't support you, because the ones that will support you are out there. Just like how we ended up trying to, you know, create a better country here in the US, you know, during the revolution. And, you know, sometimes it does help to try and stay where you are. And see if you're capable of affecting the change that you want to see. But if it's going to burn you out and if it looks like at a certain level of leadership, that it's just not going to happen. You know, those. Those committees, at a certain point, if you're participating on a committee, leadership at that hospital will eventually have to show their hand. You will propose something, and it will be up to them to say yes or no. And in that moment, you will probably realize whether or not that hospital system takes those committees seriously. If they support nurses, if they value their nurses like they should, or whether they don't, and then you ultimately have to do what's best for you and your happiness, your satisfaction in the profession. And that's when, that's when you, you look elsewhere, you know, millions, millions and millions of nurses in this country. No excuse for any of us to be unhappy at a job, you know, so. So find yourself that hospital system. That's why I say I'm so lucky because I have very few things to complain about where I work now, you know, but we're very well supported. We have everything from cool-down rooms and Zen-dens and outings. We have an entire initiative called I can't tell you what, because then we'll probably give away the institution, but we have an entire department basically dedicated to the wellness of our, of our nurses, of our employees, you know? So it's very impressive. Other hospitals out there are probably doing the same thing. So make sure you're asking the right questions during your interviews and, you know, if somehow they pulled the wool over your eyes and discover a year or two in that they're not the best institution, you know, to support you in how you want to treat your patients, how you want to support them, advocate for them. Move. Get out of there.

[01:02:51] Michelle: Yeah, one of my guests said, you're not a tree. Move. Yeah. And I think that's such a great message to end on. And, you know, a lot of people might see it as, like, kind of depressing. I don't see it that way. I see it as empowering. And I think nurses today, and I'm happy to see this because I think in my generation, I didn't see it so much. It was like we kind of lived by this rule. Like, if you got a job and you just had to stick it out. And, you know, from the hospital that I worked at, many, many nurses had, you know, three, four decades there, and, you know, and they weren't always happy. So I think that's just a great message. If it's not working for you, it's okay to advocate for yourself and find an institution that is very pro-nurse. And it sounds like you're working in an idyllic place. I'm so happy for you. I wish it could be cloned all over the world. Right.

[01:03:57] Dave: I know. I'm happy for me, too. But that's why I share it. I say, listen if you don't have the things that I have. If you don't have the support that I have, if you don't have the opportunities that I have and the incredible leadership and things like that, you know? Yeah, I'm saying the most positive way possible. You know that there are places out there you can go where you will get all those things. You have to find them. You have to know the right questions to ask in an interview. It never hurts, you know that. It's really not against the rules to jump on LinkedIn. Find nurses that work there. You may have never met them before in your life. Ask them questions.

[01:04:36] Michelle: So true. Networking, it's so, so important. Love it. I've loved our conversation today, Dave. Thank you so much. Tell us again where we can find you.

[01:04:49] Dave: All right, so my social media handles are all @thenewRN. It's going to be Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, which I hardly use, or X, whatever it's called. Now. I don't really use that one all that much, but I'm pretty sure I have an account on there and then TikTok and probably going to be coming up with a YouTube channel within the next year as well, just to put out a little bit more educational content on there as well. My blog is thenewRN.com and you can find Brand New Nurse in paperback and ebook formats on Amazon.com.

[01:05:25] Michelle: I will add all of those to the show notes. And I see a podcast in your future.

[01:05:31] Dave: We will see. I have my jar of marbles and it's full. Gonna have to take some of those out.

[01:05:37] Michelle: Yeah.

[01:05:38] Dave: Before I put another couple in, but we will see. I've really enjoyed this. I've enjoyed our conversation. Michelle, if you're ever really hurting for a guest and you want to have me back on, it would be a pleasure.

[01:05:48] Michelle: Beautiful. Thank you. And your person, your nurse educator sounds really perfect. So definitely reach out to her and see if she has an interest. You can email me and hopefully, we'll talk.

[01:06:00] Dave: I will, I will. I'll do my best to connect you guys.

[01:06:03] Michelle: Okay, well, we're at the last five minutes and it's five minutes of fun. It's the five-minute snippet. Are you ready, Dave?

[01:06:10] Dave: I am ready.

[01:06:14] Michelle: Okay. Favorite restaurant in a different city that you live in.

[01:06:59] Dave: It's tough because I go out to eat a lot, that stuff. So right now, if I could get swept off to one restaurant someplace right now, I would probably say Budokan in Philadelphia.

[01:07:20] Michelle: What do they serve there?

[01:07:21] Dave: That is a pan-Asian restaurant.

[01:07:24] Michelle: Okay.

[01:07:24] Dave: So all different kinds of Asian food. There's a very famous restaurant tour in Philadelphia named Stephen Starr, and it's one of his flagship restaurants.

[01:07:33] Michelle: Wow. Okay. I have to put that on the list. Okay. Would you rather find true love today or win the lottery next year?

[01:07:44] Dave: There is no doubt in my mind that I have already found true love, so I will take the lottery ticket.

[01:07:53] Michelle: Love it. A twofer. Okay. Name a celebrity who has a good influence on children if you think there are any, because you have a child.

[01:08:10] Dave: I know that Miss Rachel probably has the most influence on my children. She's our unpaid babysitter in this house. But I would say, you know, we, my wife and I, we're pretty selective about the TV programming and things like that that we'll put on for our kids. So I would say that anybody like that who focuses on, you know, educational programming for children this way, you know, we don't. We kind of try and stop this cycle where everybody's just staring at a screen all day and it's just loud and flashy. You get away from the nickelodeon that I grew up with, where it was sort of, you know, it's just for fun, but it wasn't very educational.

[01:08:54] Michelle: Oh, my gosh. Yeah. The slime and all that stuff.

[01:08:57] Dave: Yeah, exactly.

[01:08:58] Michelle: Okay. Favorite meal to cook at home.

[01:09:02] Dave: So I have a few. Most of the time, my clams and white sauce over linguine is. That's going to go over really, really well. I think I've perfected that recipe. There are plenty of recipes I have not even come close to, but that one I perfected. And then I do another one called, I call it beef a- la Deutsch. It was something that my family made a lot growing up, a lot of my family. I'm sort of a European mutt, but a lot of my family's from Germany. And so this is a braised beef with peppers, mushrooms, onions, and red wine. And it's braised, it just falls apart and we serve it over egg noodles with pickled red cabbage.

[01:09:44] Michelle: I'll be right over.

[01:09:47] Dave: Really good. You would love it.

[01:09:49] Michelle: Sounds wonderful. Okay. With your culinary background, would you rather have a personal maid or a personal chef?

[01:09:58] Dave: Maid 100%.

[01:10:02] Michelle: Yeah. I feel like you're the chef in the house.

[01:10:04] Dave: I am. My wife is a very good cook. Nobody makes salmon better than she does, but she doesn't enjoy it. To her, it's a chore. So I usually do most of the cooking, but the maid service between my ADHD, all the different things I have going on. Um, and, and one of the things I love best about my wife is that, you know, if she, if she has an afternoon off and, you know, she'll just scoop up the kids and they're gone. They're at the park, they're at the aquarium, they're at the zoo. You know, we're both pretty much of the opinion that you know, at the end of our lives, we're not going to look back and wish that we had cleaned more, you know, so if there's a maid that can do that for us, that'd be nice.

[01:10:48] Michelle: Yeah, I opt for the maid, too, because I said, you know, if I have a maid, I have more time for cooking, which I enjoy. So there you go. Favorite way to spend a rainy day?

[01:11:01] Dave: I could either spend it in the house curled up with my family, and we just put some movies on. You know, we can watch some Harry Potter movies or we'll just put on some Disney movies and watch those. Or if we're willing to venture out, just going to someplace where once we're inside, we're good. Like going to the mall and just hitting a whole bunch of stores that we don't have to go into, but we just go to look around. That's a lot of fun, too.

[01:11:30] Michelle: That sounds so fun. And yes, I recently became a Harry Potter fan and I'm a Hufflepuff, by the way.

[01:11:38] Dave: I heard that in your last episode. Yeah, I think we're team Gryffindor. Um, my wife got me into, I never, I never really watched her or read any Harry Potter until, until she looked at me like I had six heads when I told her that I hadn't. And she made me, made me watch all the movies. And now it's sort of a Christmas tradition for us around Christmas time. We blow through all the classic Christmas movies pretty quickly. So then we, we go through and watch all the Harry Potter.

[01:12:07] Michelle: Yeah, I love it. And it's really wonderful seeing my grandson now. He's reading the first book, so we're kind of reading it again simultaneously, and he'll tell me what chapter he's on, and I'll say, oh, what about this part? And so, yeah, super fun.

[01:12:25] Dave: It's nice being able to share that.

[01:12:27] Michelle: I know, right? Okay, last question. Favorite app on your phone.

[01:12:35] Dave: Well, we just got back the other day from Disney World, so we've been wanting to take our kids. My son is nine, and so we said, well, we'll brave taking the kids on a plane and doing all that stuff and see how it goes. We had an amazing family vacation. So right now, I'd say it's the Disney experience app because we use that all through the parks and it's how we got our dinner reservations and all those things. So definitely the Disney experience app right now. Any other time, I think I'm pretty much either on. On TikTok, I'm on NurseTok. So I watch all the other nurse content creators on there, and I just. I spend a lot of time in the Google Suite doing things. I'm on my Google Drive, I'm making checklists, email, and things like that.

[01:13:25] Michelle: Yeah, I love all the Google products. I use them a lot as well. And I haven't been to Disneyland since 2005. Dave, I think I'm overdue for a trip.

[01:13:39] Dave: You are. My last trip was 2004. And a lot has changed. A lot has changed in a very, very positive way. It's just amazing how. Just how clean it is. I mean, the whole park smells good. It's clean. You'll never find chipped paint or anything, you know. It's definitely worth it.

[01:13:58] Michelle: Yeah, definitely. Well, super fun. You did great with the five-minute snippet. I know you would. You're probably a kid at heart. And so thank you. Yeah. Thank you so much for indulging me. Thank you for coming on and sharing everything that you're doing for new art ends. So, so important. And I appreciate you, everything you're doing.

[01:14:22] Dave: Of course. This was great. I really, really had a lot of fun, Michelle. I hope we get to do this again sometime.

[01:14:27] Michelle: Same. All right, you take care.

[01:14:30] Dave: All right. You, too.