156. Healing and Beating Multiple Sclerosis with Kaley Zeitouni

Multiple Sclerosis is typically looked at as chronic, painful, and life-altering. Kaley Zeitouni, was diagnosed with MS at the young age of 12. After living with this debilitating disease into her late 20’s, Kaley decided she was sick of being sick, and took her health in her own hands.

Today, Kaley lives symptom-free and teaches others the same transformative techniques of healing the mind, body and soul. She is passionate about inspiring others to live their fullest, healthiest lives.

Kaley is a Marriage and Family Therapist and best-selling author, speaker, podcast host and coach.

Episode Highlights:

10:00 - Kaley shares her vulnerability telling her diagnosis story 
20:08 - As a teenager Kaley starts a non-profit to help others
28:35 - The mind, body and soul connection in healing
38:53 - The importance of a healthy relationship with your body
44:56 - Your diagnosis does not have to be forever

To connect with and learn more about Kaley:

Website: kaleyz.com
Read her story: Transforming Your Life
LinkedIn: Kaley Zeitouni
Instagram: kaleyzeitouniofficial
Facebook: Kaley Zeitouni

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Connect with Colette:

Instagram: @wellnessbycolette

Website: love-colette.com

Thank you for listening to the Limitless Healing podcast with Colette Brown! It would mean the world if you would take one minute to follow, leave a 5 star review and share with those you love!

In Health,
Colette

Transcript

[00:00:00] Colette Brown: Welcome to the Limitless Healing Podcast, where everyone is welcome to take a front row seat and listen in on inspiring conversations, stories of healing and action steps to help you live your best life. My name is Colette Brown, and I'm passionate about all things wellness, mind, body, soul, inspired by my own personal transformation from a Unwell and not knowing where to turn to thriving and flourishing and motivated to help you do the same.

[00:00:28] I share this platform with medical doctors, wellness practitioners, chronic illness survivors, meditation and mindfulness gurus, innovators of products from food to technology and more. Think of it as a one stop shop for wellness resources where you can listen to professionals from around the world to help you thrive.

[00:00:48] Join me Mondays while sipping a cup of tea or Or making your favorite meal as we explore the world of wellness together. This is the Limitless Healing Podcast. With the hustle of everyday life and responsibility, work, kids, family, friends, whatever you have going on, I'm always seeking out Little nuggets of sunshine.

[00:01:12] And I heard one recently, it was summarized so beautifully. And I looked up the origin to see where it might've come from. And the closest that I found is Mahatma Gandhi. And this is about mindset and it went something like this, the things that you think become the words that you say. The words that you say trigger the actions that you take.

[00:01:35] The actions that you take turn into habits that you have. And these habits determine the kind of person that you are and the life that you live. I want that just to resonate for a moment because this is powerful. When you're thinking about something and you're not really understanding how it really can affect you, then you don't know that you need to change your thought.

[00:02:03] So I'm saying all this to say this week I am doing a replay of one of my favorite podcasts with Kaley Zeitouni

Kayley was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis when she was 12 years old and in her late 20s, she was tired of living with MS and I'm going to let you listen to the podcast to hear the end of the story of what happened with her, but it was a radical transformation and she will tell you definitely it's mindset.

[00:02:39] There's more to it, but mindset is so powerful. If you're trying to accomplish goals, if you are trying to. Become more positive in nature, whatever your goal is in life, it does start with the mindset. So I'm going to challenge you to really be reflective about what thoughts are coming in, what people you're allowing yourself to be around because people can influence us and doing things for your health, getting out and exercising.

[00:03:09] That always is good for the mind, body, and soul. So take a listen to one of my favorite episodes with Kaley Zeitouni. There are many ways to describe my next guest, a leader, a mindset master. A deeply spiritual being, a forward thinker, and after years of battling MS for over 20 years, she took a deep dive into herself, mind, body, soul to ultimately knock her multiple sclerosis into remission.

[00:03:42] As a teenager, she started a nonprofit youth against multiple sclerosis that raised over a million dollars for MS research and awareness. She's a marriage and family therapist. Best selling author, grief coach, illness recovery coach, speaker, and empowers others through her programs that teach people the tools that she uses in her own life.

[00:04:09] Inside and out. Welcome Kaley Zeitouni. Thank 

[00:04:14] Kaley Zeitouni: you. Thanks so much. And you nailed my name. That's not an easy one. 

[00:04:19] Colette Brown: It's not an easy one. I know that I, but I know you and now I've learned how to pronounce it. So welcome Kaley. It is so good to have you on. And as I mentioned in the introduction, you are multiple sclerosis.

[00:04:38] I don't know if I should say survivor, but let's talk a little bit, um, if people are not familiar with this, can you just explain what MS is, how it affects people, the warning signs, and then we will, as we weave through our time today, we'll talk about, um, ways that you can work through MS. 

[00:04:59] Kaley Zeitouni: Absolutely. So, um, multiple sclerosis literally means multiple scars.

[00:05:05] Um, sclerosis is scar tissue which develops on the nerves in the brain and spinal cord, specifically on something called the myelin sheath. So, the way, um, we see wiring in our house, right? You and I right now are on computers and there's a power port. And that power port is a wire wrapped in rubber. So some of our nerves, not all of them, but some of them also have a similar coding, um, and that's called myelin.

[00:05:33] And what happens when that gets eaten away, when that's attacked, is messages that are being passed through our nerves get affected. So, the message might not get sent at all, the message Might get, um, set incorrectly. Right. And we all sort of have experienced this when it comes to just electricity, electronics, right?

[00:05:53] We go, wait, why isn't this charger working? And like, you kind of jiggle it. Like we've all kind of experienced that, right? Or if you see that a wire, a wire has been prayed in the middle, that rubber is no longer there. The wire is exposed. We know not to trust that device, right? You probably shouldn't plug it in.

[00:06:08] Right. So that's, what's going on in the body. Okay. Um, and what's happening is the immune system is attacking the nervous system. Because it's our nervous system, anything can happen. So people with MS experience a range of symptoms from blindness to paralysis, fatigue, pain, but almost anything is possible because it is the brain, right?

[00:06:29] Which is the control center. So almost anything can happen. There are different types of MS. And that's, that also leads to a lot of misinformation and, um, misunderstanding about the disease. Because people will walk around having MS and looking completely healthy, and others assume that, like, I mean you get really weird comments when you live with disease, and the majority of us have something, so I think a lot of people agree to this, but, you know, people, like, one of the most common lines is that you look so good.

[00:07:00] And you often don't know what's going on underneath the surface. Someone might be able to walk, but might be covered in needles on their feet or might be in severe pain. And a lot of times what we associate with the disease is what we can see. So the more severe form of MS is called progressive MS. Um, and that's where someone gets a symptom and it just gets worse and worse and worse.

[00:07:22] So, um, for example, when I was a kid, I watched my friend's father go from a limp to a cane to a walker to a wheelchair until he was paraplegic. And I mean, that's just like, that's the, that's the last diagnosis. Anybody want to be progressive? I was really, really lucky. And I really mean that. I was lucky that I was diagnosed with relapsing limiting MS.

[00:07:44] That you can go into remission, so you have a relapse, a lot of symptoms at once, um, it's also called an attack, and then I could go into remission. That also looks different from person to person, and it's also complex about MS, and I'm sure we'll get into this in our discussion today, that every case is so different, and so it's very interesting to actually label a disease when literally no two cases are the same.

[00:08:09] Right. That has helped me kind of. you know, initiate my own healing path and journey. But yeah, we can talk about that, but that's what MS is. And it's, According to the medical community for a lifetime, 

[00:08:21] Colette Brown: okay, chronic. So, um, Kaley, let's go back to the beginning. I want you to tell us who you were as a child before you actually, um, had MS or were diagnosed with MS.

[00:08:40] What, who, who were you as a little girl? 

[00:08:42] Kaley Zeitouni: That's such an interesting question. I've only been asked that one before and yeah, well done. So. I was very studious. I was a perfectionist. Everything had to be done right. I was an overachiever. And it's weird, like, even though I was a little kid, I didn't really care about being a kid.

[00:09:01] I didn't care about playing at recess. I just wanted to get good grades. That's really all I cared about. I didn't even care about making friends. I mean, a little bit here and there, but not really. That's really all I thought about as a kid. As a kid. Which is weird. And my parents, by the way, thought it was weird too.

[00:09:19] It's not like they were like supporting me. They were just like, maybe she should try to have some fun. And yeah, so that was me. I was like, it was always straight A's, always. 

[00:09:30] Colette Brown: So you're, you're the studious girl, and then you turn 12 and your world is turned upside down. And can you tell us, uh, about that moment when you get the diagnosis and what were you feeling?

[00:09:49] What were your, what were you thinking? Uh, what was going on in your world? 

[00:09:53] Kaley Zeitouni: I'm having a really interesting experience right now because I talk about this all the time. And it's like another part [00:10:00] of my life, but for some reason, just as you said that, like my whole body was just covered in chills and all this emotion came up.

[00:10:05] So that's just, we're going to explore that right now and let it unfold. I was diagnosed at UCLA with an amazing, amazing neurologist.

[00:10:18] Um, I had been going through symptoms for three months. It was a nightmare. It was a nightmare. Um, every day was something new. My body was doing something different. Every single day. We had no idea. Um, a lot of the neurologists thought MS, but didn't want to say it or weren't capable of diagnosing because there'd only been one child in the entire state of California, um, with an MS diagnosis at that time.

[00:10:42] Wow. This was in 98. So, so no one wanted to diagnose it. And without a diagnosis, it's like, you're just sort of out in the open, you know, and when it's neurological, you know, it was, it was terrifying in the sense that, well, is this a brain tumor? I was a kid, you know, on a regular basis, I felt like I'm dying.

[00:11:04] What's happening? So in an interesting way, like having a diagnosis in that moment was, I still vividly remember sitting in his office. I, I, It's like nothing else existed in that moment. It was. In a very strange way, relief. I, I like, it's like I couldn't exhale. It's like, there's a name to this insane, like, insane experience that I was in.

[00:11:30] Um, and there was something I could do about it, which was also, also just a massive relief, because I didn't know what was going on. I didn't know if there was like, something I should be doing differently or that I did to cause this. Like, you just don't know. And all of a sudden, like, okay, these are the medical options.

[00:11:45] These are the treatment options. Weren't that many. I didn't have a lot available to me, but there was something as much as it was relief, it was also life altering in a way that that little total could not have. She couldn't have wrapped her mind around. This will affect career. This will affect family.

[00:12:02] This will affect relationships. This literally will affect every aspect of your life. And I feel really blessed that it ultimately affected me in a really positive way. But there was a lot of suffering and a lot of struggle, and I couldn't have imagined in that moment just how bad it was going to be.

[00:12:21] Much as like it was a relief, and he was an amazing doctor, and he was so present with me, like, that's, it's really unique, like, he wasn't there to tell my parents what my diagnosis was, he was there with me. And like I was his priority, which was incredible. Um, and also it's also very isolated. Like now I was a little girl and it was isolating and it was like, you're saying the word, I'm hearing the word the Spanish name and I don't have any idea what this actually means for me.

[00:12:48] I think it was, now I understand it more as like a protective mechanism, but um, at the time I, I thought it was amazing that like, You know, kids were very resilient and we're survivors and we think we can do anything. We think we're invincible. And so that, that kicked in, that was like, okay, well I'll be able to do anything.

[00:13:08] I'll be fine. I'm going to beg me. I'll be okay. You know, and I'm really lucky that that kicked in because I needed that spirit to get through it because the mind is so, so powerful and I needed that to strengthen me. But now I know as an adult and through all the work that I've done myself, You know, just that like inner transformation and inner growth that, that was, it was a coping mechanism, it was a survival tool because it would have broken me to actually face the reality.

[00:13:36] So I had to say I was invincible and I'll be fine, but now I understand there was a much deeper level of what was going on. Maybe that's why this feels more emotional right now, um, than it has before, but yeah. It was that that moment changed my 

[00:13:50] Colette Brown: life. So it's, it's an interesting thing about, about age too.

[00:13:55] The older we get, the more we can reflect and look back and, and see the miracle and see the resilience and, um, that, that mindset of, I got this. I'm going to do it. And as we get older, we see things, we're told things, it's easy to get into the mindset of not believing that we can. So I think that also, as you mentioned, was, was a gift that you were diagnosed young and that you had that tenacity just innately within you to say, I'm going to, I'm going to fight this.

[00:14:31] I'm going to do something. Um, but it wasn't. It wasn't, um, it wasn't an easy ride because you're diagnosed at 12. You live with this for 20 years. And, um, just tell us about what those moments were initially before. And even after you started, um, medication, what did it feel like? I know it was very isolating.

[00:14:58] And, um, uh, what was that for you? 

[00:15:02] Kaley Zeitouni: My first symptoms were, um, started with my light in my eyes. Um, so I had spent about two months with this feeling of hands crawling all over my feet and my legs. Um, so it's like that second before your, your foot falls asleep. Um, and it was my entire legs. I was really off balance.

[00:15:20] It was really uncomfortable walking. Um, and I also had, for the first month, I had, um, a symptom called nystagmus. And it's when your eyes jump rapidly right to left. So my world was constantly spinning. So I literally kept my eyes closed. Or entire month for 30 days, like. I'm not exaggerating because if I open my eyes, I threw up.

[00:15:42] Like that's how sick I felt just seeing the world spinning. So I was fed, I was bathed, everything. I didn't do anything for myself except for my eyes closed. Um, I didn't go to school. And then the next 30 days, um, I stopped seeing the world spinning, but then I had double vision. So I saw two of everything, um, which was also quite unpleasant.

[00:16:03] And ironically, it was like a relief. I mean, that's the irony of it. It's like. You know, once you know how bad it can be, you're like, Oh, okay. At least it's only double vision. But yeah. And so during that time, like, I mean, all kinds of things are happening. If I was having a bladder problem, I mean, and even afterwards, it was sort of interesting, like all of a sudden, one day after two months, my legs were fine.

[00:16:26] Out of the blue, like, you just don't know. And there's an immense. relief and gratitude in that moment. There's also an anxiety because now it's like, okay, what's next, you know? And like, you're always waiting for the other shoe to drop. So throughout the years of having MS, I mean, I've had lung spasms, which I didn't even know could be part of it.

[00:16:46] Like all these things that just every day, something new, not being able to use my hands, um, weakness, pain, the pain was always the worst. The pain was always the worst. It's completely debilitating. And it's It's a different kind of pain than no one should ever have to experience this. Um, but without experiencing it, like I really don't know how to explain it to someone.

[00:17:08] Like it's nerve pain or neuropathic pain. And what that means is that the pain actually originates in the brain, in the nervous system. Let's say you're slicing vegetables and you cut your finger. The pain is originating at the spot where you cut yourself. Right? So, there's a system in place in the body to support that, that area of the body to support the injury and to reduce the pain.

[00:17:32] It's been different. I didn't actually cut my finger, but I feel like I've cut my finger. So there's No mechanism in place to relax that and also painkillers are addressed to, are designed to address an actual injury. So, it's, I mean, you literally feel crazy and there's hardly anything out there that helps.

[00:17:52] So, I mean, I remember days where I was convinced and laying in bed convinced that if I looked under the covers, my legs would be on fire. I was convinced there's no way. That there's not a fire happening right now. And my flesh is being burned. And then you look and you're like, this is, it's nuts. My, my, my legs are fine.

[00:18:09] I would, I would beg. And I don't even know how my parents like got through this because I would beg them to take me to the emergency room. I would beg, like, I was so much pain. Like, I have to do something, do something. And like, after a few times going, they just know that they can't do anything. Like, they can't do anything.

[00:18:27] How do you tell your child that, like, there's nothing, you know. So I think pain by far is the worst. For me it was, but I know a lot who speaks to other people with, you know, any kind of neurological symptoms that also, it's just, it's the most debilitating. It like messes with your head. So yeah, um, and it was also really hard to be a high schooler and deal with fatigue and all these things at the same time.

[00:18:50] Somehow I did more than anybody else did. Um, so, Because I also had this like intense drive, you know, it's like, well, now I know how short life is and now I know how precious it is. If I can walk and see on a certain day, I want to go all out, you know, that backfires. But at the time, that's what motivated me.

[00:19:09] Today, I don't live that way, but you know, I, that's, that was my value then. 

[00:19:15] Colette Brown: So your diagnosis at 12 and just a few short years later, I think after experiencing the, the bodily fatigue and pain, you decide. to help other others that are living with MS. And as a teenager, you started, um, raising money and ultimately started a nonprofit with other teenagers.

[00:19:43] Um, and in addition to being A student and dealing with your condition. You, you jump in and dive into helping others at this young age. Can you tell us how that started and how old you [00:20:00] were and what that blossomed into? 

[00:20:03] Kaley Zeitouni: Yeah, sure. So, um, a year after I was diagnosed, I was, um, 13 and, um, through the inspiration of actually one of my eighth grade teachers, my, my eighth grade class and I decided to participate in the National MS Society's MS Walk.

[00:20:19] And I think we all thought we were just there to kind of show up, show support. They weren't there to support me. Um, and we also had another, um, another student whose father had MS, um, in my class. So it was like a community experience here. We were coming together, um, and we raised several thousand dollars and that wasn't our intention.

[00:20:40] We didn't, we didn't know that that was possible. Um, but all of a sudden, sort of the next day, we kind of all looked at each other, wait a second, that something actually just happened there. That wasn't just like a fun Sunday. There's, there's impact here. Um, and we could actually do something with this.

[00:20:58] And so the next year, those of us who participated the first year. Really decided to grow it and we committed ourselves to it months in advance. Um, and that's sort of how the nonprofit started. We started, I mean, it was amazing. The next year we raised, it was like 50, 000. Wow. Um, just a bunch of kids. So then the next year we raised 200, 000 like on one day, um, as teenagers.

[00:21:26] And so it was. 14 or 15 when we all sat together. We had a committee, you know, to help with like planning and whatnot, um, while we were raising money for the MS society. And at some point we all kind of sat together to discuss what our plans were moving forward. I mean, we were very, very diligent about it.

[00:21:47] We met every Sunday, the whole group of kids. You know, these kids could have been at the beach with LA, like there were other options, you know, and we were thinking, how do we raise more money? Um, how do we make a difference? How do we help people? And by the way, like sometimes they were doing it on their own because I, I started at a very early age, sharing my story.

[00:22:06] A few months after I was diagnosed, I started talking about what I was going through and seeing that it was helping others and inspiring others. So, I started, so I was, while I was in high school, I was flying all the time, speaking to different audiences about my experience, so sometimes, like, these other teenagers were there.

[00:22:23] Doing all of the fundraising on their own. I mean, it was just, it's remarkable to have like grown up with people like this. So yeah, at a certain point we said like, it is getting harder to like, have to, you know, get some seed funds in order to do the things that we do and we don't have our own nonprofit and like, it just was like, oops, complicated reality.

[00:22:44] And we were getting more and more passionate about it. So we wanted to be able to direct where funding was going. And so we decided to start our own non profit as kids and, um, it was amazing. We had so much support, so much guidance, everybody's parent did something, you know, one was the lawyer and one was the accountant and like, it was, it was remarkable.

[00:23:06] And you know, we had an actual board of directors. Every kid had their role, like they actually had titles and served on this board. This also had its own complications because like you had to have someone over 18 sign that you've been like, um, it was just really interesting. But, um, I think also part, you know, obviously the success of like, who's going to say no to a child.

[00:23:27] So we were able to be super successful in our fundraising. Um, we made a huge impact. Um, it's something I'm super proud of and ironically, um, something that I probably wouldn't do again. So I'm glad I did it at that stage, but I also was really, really sick through it, really sick. Because stress aggravates any disease or illness.

[00:23:53] And, um, as we all know, we all know when we're on a deadline, you know, we get sick. We get a cold. And it's not because you were suddenly exposed to the virus. It's because of stress. The immune system just couldn't fight anymore, right? Stress actually reduces the immune system functioning. So, so I was really, really sick the entire time.

[00:24:12] And I just told myself that was okay because I was making an impact. But. I mean, we're talking like I was in high school and, and middle school and high school and like not able to, to go to the bathroom on my own. So it was severe, you know, and I was, I was just, you know, I guess caught up in the closet.

[00:24:35] Colette Brown: Um, That's probably why it made it so impactful for your board, because they were all watching you and seeing you and they knew that their voice, their time, their efforts could make a difference in your life and the lives of others. So it shows you when there's passion that a lot of things can happen.

[00:24:57] And, um, and you stepped up and you were busy and you were overtaxing yourself, just like you said, as we get busy in life and we need to step back and take a pause and look at our priorities. And, um, you decided, okay, I need to pay attention to myself now. And so you started, uh, doing self care and was that before, uh, before you started college?

[00:25:27] It was, 

[00:25:28] Kaley Zeitouni: yeah, it's interesting. I actually made the decision, um, towards the end of my senior year that I didn't want to go straight to college because of how sick I was. Um, and because my nature was like, I'm such an overachiever. I knew I would throw myself into it. And I, my symptoms were, I mean, I could barely stand that stage.

[00:25:48] Um, and I just felt like I needed some kind of break. I needed to just heal. Um, at the time I didn't understand enough about my body connection. So I didn't know like that there was a long term plan for healing, but I knew I needed some kind of break to get my body space from stress. Um, so yeah, so I took a year off actually before I started college.

[00:26:09] And at that, at that point, like. Because I was getting so much sleep and just taking care of me and I wasn't involved in the, I was involved in the organization, but like kind of a separate moves. Other people took over and like they only needed guidance or advice. And it was more like an advisory role. I felt super healthy.

[00:26:29] It was amazing. I felt so good. And at that point, like, As much as I cared about the cause, it was very hard for me to get back into it. I just, I just didn't want to do it. You know, like, once you have that, that's sort of all you want, I didn't want to mess with it. I didn't want to risk it. It was so exhilarating to, to be healthy, to work out, to, you know, I just, I never wanted to go back.

[00:26:54] Um, it was my nature though. So, you know, within a few years, like a few years out of college, I was right back into very stressful situations and jobs. And, you know, my health took a turn because of that. Yeah. It was very hard for me to get back into the college because I just threw my whole being into it.

[00:27:14] Colette Brown: So you studied in college, you initially started into the wellness path and then pivoted into psychology. And, um, I'm sure that what you were dealing with in life weighed heavily on your decision. A lot of kids go into college. And don't know what they want to do. Don't have, don't have a lot of life experience or don't have a passion or a cause.

[00:27:41] And they're kind of fumbling. And You went in at just full steam ahead and really trying to unpack in your life. I'm sure, um, what was going on. And so what impact looking back, are you, are you still like, like is passionate about this psychology aspect or do you study, you keep continuing to learn more about the psychology because we do now.

[00:28:10] That mind body soul connection and and the mind is very powerful. And so kind of learning how to Um direct it is beneficial in our overall health 

[00:28:24] Kaley Zeitouni: Absolutely. So it's The thing I'm most passionate about is how the mind, body, and soul work together. Um, for me, the field of psychology actually fell short.

[00:28:34] Um, and even like through my master's, my master's in the clinical society, which is like, I needed so much more. Um, and since then, I mean, these other fields have really, really developed. Transpersonal psychology, mind, body, and medicine has really developed. Um, and, um, That, that has absolutely been my passion and, and also understanding the soul journey.

[00:28:58] And when we learn more about the journey of the soul, our lives make so much more sense. What we're dealing with physically, it makes so much more sense. So that has absolutely been my passion. And it's so interesting because when I went into college, you know, to a certain extent, I was part of that system, like the system that says like, Oh, well, you need the academic degree and you need that for your career.

[00:29:21] And at the same time, I was a person who already had a career. I had a career as a teenager, so it was easy in an interesting way to just, just choose what, what, what I was passionate about rather than choose according to a career. I didn't know what my future was going to look like. I had no idea what it wasn't.

[00:29:38] I wasn't thinking I want to be a therapist. It's like, I'm just fascinated by this. I want to understand this. I'm from a very young age, been helping others also through their, through their diagnosis. I was running some work groups, Um, so guiding them, guiding their families, because I lived it from such a young age.

[00:29:55] So whereas others had to make adjustments and learn to adapt. So it's [00:30:00] like, well, you do something one way and I have to learn to do it a different way. Kind of all I knew because I was so young. So I naturally developed workarounds. I naturally developed that to me, weren't workarounds. To me, it was like the most obvious way to communicate about those most obvious way to deal with life, to have a healthy relationship, you know?

[00:30:17] So I was passionate. I was just so passionate about these things. And I wish for me, that is the ultimate reality. I don't think anyone in life is happy. By choosing a career because that's what you were supposed to do, because that's what's going to pay the bills. And we see the damage of that, especially as a coach and a therapist, I can tell you so much of the work that we do, you know this too, like so much of the work that we do is helping people unlearn what they've been taught.

[00:30:42] Helping people believe that it's okay, give themselves permission to do what they actually want to do in the world. Right. And And so I feel really lucky that, like, at least that's what I chose, but at the same time, I can tell you that, like, what I do today, I don't use any of my degrees, like, I, like, it's just, you're constantly having to, to learn in new ways and show up for clients in new ways and develop better skills.

[00:31:09] Um, and most people will tell you, like, these fields fall short. Anyone living with chronic illness will tell you, my doctors don't know, we've tried everything, I'm stuck. Anyone who, who, like, has tried to find a therapist, so interesting, like, you know, whenever I try to help my clients find, like, another practitioner or to find someone for their family members, it is so hard to find good practitioners and it's, it's not necessarily their fault, like, these systems fall short in the sense that we are all dynamic human beings.

[00:31:40] You know, going back to what you said, we want, we want to be aligned with passion in our lives. I'm not, you can't, you can't solve me Kaley by like going according to some system in that box. Like none of us are systems, you know, we can't plug into another system and we shouldn't want to, you know, we're dynamic beings.

[00:31:59] So it's interesting that you bring that up. I haven't really thought about that yet. I didn't go in thinking I need a career or what will my career be? I just like, What am I passionate about? Let's see what unfolds and I wouldn't have guessed that I would be doing what I wouldn't think that one day I'm going to be in illness recovery mode.

[00:32:14] I also didn't think I would be able to heal. Um, I didn't know that at the time, but yeah. So you, 

[00:32:22] Colette Brown: you're, it's, it's amazing. And you did. So much work on yourself and I, I want to, um, get a little more into that, but I want to flash forward to when you finally go into full remission and the doctor gives you NIDA or, uh, is it not no evidence of disease?

[00:32:45] Yes. Yes. Active activity. What was that moment like for you and what ignited at that time that wasn't already ignited because you were on a path already of, I want to get this under control. And what did, what did that, that diagnosis or that status of your disease do for you? 

[00:33:11] Kaley Zeitouni: Well, it's interesting because There's like, when you're, when you're in this mindset of, I want to get my disease under control, right?

[00:33:19] It can follow disease management. We're still in an illness mentality. And I had a moment where I just went through a very stressful experience. I moved countries and my entire health team, medical team was like, we all just assumed something bad was going to happen. And the first couple of days, nothing happened.

[00:33:40] I was okay. I was kind of surprised by that. And you're just waiting for something to happen when you're living in a new 

[00:33:45] Colette Brown: country, like you've moved and then your old team is back in the States and now you have a new team and you're like, okay. 

[00:33:52] Kaley Zeitouni: Yeah. Yeah. And everyone's communicating. 

[00:33:54] Colette Brown: Let's go. Yeah. 

[00:33:56] Kaley Zeitouni: And yeah, exactly.

[00:33:57] And everyone's communicating. Everybody, you know, was like a really nice warm handoff, but, but expecting, you know, the stress to take its toll on my body. And, and then one day that I woke up and I couldn't feel, um, I couldn't feel my hands. And, you know, someone hearing this may think that that's terrifying and, you know, horrific, and I was relieved.

[00:34:21] And that was a big wake up call for me because I was like, okay, hold on, Haley, that is not no freeway to live. Like, you can't be like relieved that you can't use your hands. But again, from a disease management perspective, from a wellness perspective, from a thriving perspective, that would not be acceptable.

[00:34:42] And that, in that moment, the fact that I was relieved, my very next thought was, that's not, that's not okay. Like you don't want this. You want to actually be well, not be in disease management, not be the disease is under control. You want to be healthy, perfectly healthy, disease free. And no one ever tells us that that's an option or that's possible.

[00:35:03] So you don't need for it. And I just felt like I have to figure this out. It's got, there's gotta be a way. Um, and I did everything I could to understand the mind body connection and literally gave myself healing became my job. Um, and when, when my neurologist changed my diagnosis, I was like, Um, which is very rare by the way.

[00:35:28] And like, it's also not necessarily forever. And I have another neurologist who has a different perspective. And I'm at a stage where I don't even care anymore because I don't live with symptoms. So why does it matter? Right. It's just not, I don't care. You can call it whatever you want to call it. I'm good.

[00:35:44] My body's fine. I haven't had anything in 10 years. It's just like. Why are we still talking about this? You know what I mean? So, um, but that day, I think it's still, it's weird. Cause it's been a few years. I still don't even know how I would tell you how that's impacted me. I, I mean, I walked out, I cried a lot.

[00:36:06] He and I both cried. Neurologist is such a sweet, sweet dude. He like was really moved. And, uh, I literally just went and sat at the beach and I cried for like hours. Like there wasn't, I don't know how to even qualify what the emotions were. Cause the thing that I didn't know was possible happened. I didn't know if what I was doing was going to work.

[00:36:24] I was just willing to try anything and, and I didn't tell them. Had you met 

[00:36:28] Colette Brown: anybody up to this point that had this diagnosis? Like were you just going to complete remission? 

[00:36:35] Kaley Zeitouni: I knew people who were in complete remission, but not that their neurologist, like their neurologist will look at you and say like, no, this is still active disease.

[00:36:44] I was always very confused by that. Like, how can you say this person is an act of disease? I see them. I see that they went from blind to sight and they're walking around fine. You know, I was really lucky to be exposed to that my entire life. Not just with MS, but with other illnesses as well. Um, so I was always exposed to people who had gone through this journey.

[00:37:02] Um, so I always knew it was possible, but I didn't, I didn't know how. And I also, I know this might sound insane, but I wasn't ready. Like, it's much harder to be well than to be sick. And to anyone listening who is living with illness, I know that sounds like I'm, like, how dare you say something like that.

[00:37:23] But I'm telling you from experience, because I know what it was like to be sick. Um, that was horrendous. It has taken so much more work to get healthy and I don't want to scare people because I believe it's so worth it. It's so much better to be healthy. Yeah. But I would rather put all of that effort, all of the energy into like managing the appointments and everything else into my wellness than into my own in a second.

[00:37:47] You know, I would rather say no to the outing because I value my sleep so much and I love how good I feel then physically can't go to the birthday. You know, it's like, it's just worth it. Um, But it was harder and I wasn't ready. And it was really that turning point where I was like, no, enough is enough.

[00:38:06] Like no more disease management. We are done. We're changing course. And I do want people to know that it's possible because even though I wasn't sure, like what I was doing for myself and going to work, the fact that it is, the fact that my neurologist have, have acknowledged it. And again, like they're, they're tracking me all the time.

[00:38:22] You know, we'll see how this unfolds, but now I do this with others and they get to guide that and I get to see them heal person after person after person, and it is. So amazing. So like, as much as it's hard work and, you know, we both relate to this and have seen this in our lives, like it's worth it. It's worth it.

[00:38:41] And it's doable. And it's, It's, it's not just incredible to get well, but it's incredible to know that you can, you can actually align with this body, this thing that like feels like it's not just a need to, it is a living, breathing thing that actually wants what's best for you. And when you can, so delicious to have that kind of relationship with your own body, other than the years I spent healing the tree, you know, so.

[00:39:05] Anyways, you got me on my thing, like I need to talk about 

[00:39:09] Colette Brown: this 

[00:39:09] Kaley Zeitouni: for a while. 

[00:39:10] Colette Brown: I'm so glad you're on your thing. This is wonderful. And that leads us into today where you've actually developed a whole program, actually a couple of programs. You work one on one with people and, um, you're year long, you're releasing your programs.

[00:39:29] And, um, what can people, can you just give us a snapshot of what that looks like and what somebody can expect to, um, get out of a program that they've attended with you? Yeah. Who would you recommend it for? Would it be Those that are diagnosed, those that are, that are caretakers, um, both. It's, um, 

[00:39:50] Kaley Zeitouni: all the work that I do is best for people either with a diagnosis or the process of a diagnosis, or as we know too well, have gone years with some [00:40:00] symptoms that have gone, have gone undiagnosed.

[00:40:02] So if there's any kind of physical, um, symptom happening, This is, this is the address, right? Um, and, um, and I do work in different ways, but the best way, the way most people start with me is by taking, um, my course, excuse me, it's called Get Your Body Back. And we really, I teach everyone in the foundation the basics of what I did to heal and what keeps me healthy today.

[00:40:29] Um, and they start, you get the basic foundation and then from there we decide like what's the next best step for people. Sometimes that's all it is. It's a 10 week course. It's really fun and it's made me connect with the community of people all over the world who are in that position or like I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired and I'm not just going to sit here and still say how sick and tired I am about it.

[00:40:51] I'm going to learn how to re reestablish the relationship with my body, right? Learn to love my body because I've been hating it. Are you going to, why would your body get healthy if you're hating it? Right? We completely renew the relationship with the body. We learn what are the body's natural mechanisms for healing.

[00:41:14] Your body has everything it needs inside of you. It creates human life. But there are like some switches we need to flip on. So we do that together. Um, we learn symptom management, right? It's always, I'm always like, I don't expect, nobody sits down and meditates in the middle of a burning building, you run.

[00:41:30] So let's calm down the symptoms. And once things are calm, then we go to the root of disease, the root of illness, how our thoughts and our words are affecting on a cellular level. So we learn all of that, and we support each other. It's such a beautiful community and once you're done with the class you get to stay in the community if you want.

[00:41:49] It's amazing. We meet once a week, people can ask questions, things come up, we deal with that. Um, but it's really powerful because you start out doing body work and then, you know, people are doing well and people are healthy. So we get to just do like soul expansion and transformation and So I love this community.

[00:42:07] It keeps me going. I love these people are just, they're magical and they get to tell stories. And it's also really powerful when people first start, when someone who's listening, like let's say you joined our class and bring in the alum to inspire you so you know that it's possible. So you know that you can do this, they share their stories.

[00:42:23] And so then you become, they become part of your world and part of your society. And so when your echo chamber, is as healing as possible. That's going to amplify the process, right. And like really accelerate it. So anyways, I love it. Um, but yeah, so that, that I really, that's usually the best place to start.

[00:42:43] And, uh, you know, Collette I mentioned to you earlier that if anybody, um, wants to, um, reach out to me after hearing this, um, to just like, I just want to remind them, mention you, right. And mention the podcast and we'll definitely give them a nice discount. Um, because I, you know, your audience is so great and I want to really support them.

[00:43:04] Um, so we'll make that available to them as well. 

[00:43:07] Colette Brown: I so appreciate that. And I'm sure they will too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. 

[00:43:12] Kaley Zeitouni: And I have a ton of freebies. So even if they just like, even if it's not the course, they come to the website, they'll get like my book. There's lots of No, I have meditation. 

[00:43:22] Colette Brown: That's beautiful.

[00:43:23] And it, and it, it sometimes starts with a drip. You just need something to get you in the right path and trajectory towards healing and, and being around the vibration of people that have been through it, which is what this podcast is about is limitless healing and that it is possible. And I know that I've lived it.

[00:43:48] You know that you've lived it and so many others and it's sharing and creating this vibration of healing and ultimately manifesting, um, what it is that we want in our lives. And, um, how do we do that? And it's just one step at a time and it can be done. And, um, Kaley, people like you that are showing up and.

[00:44:12] Using the tools that they've learned in life that can ultimately help so many people. So if someone today is exactly in your shoes, let's say you're a 12 year old girl, you're an 18 year old man. Um, what would be like three quick tips that you would say? I know it's not quick, but What would you tell them?

[00:44:36] Like, here's three things that I want you to know that I wish somebody would have whispered in my ear and maybe it would have given me, um, inspiration, um, to keep going. 

[00:44:49] Kaley Zeitouni: I would want someone in that position to know that this doesn't have to be forever. But I just feel like nobody ever tells you that, they tell you this is it, this is forever, this is how it's going to be.

[00:45:02] And so why would anybody reach for healing? Why would you reach for help, you know? Um, people often get told terrible things, like it's only going to get worse from here, you know? So I want to say to you, like, it doesn't have to be forever. You can live a healthy, vibrant life. It's available, it's out there.

[00:45:26] It might not be sitting in a pamphlet at your doctor's office, but it is available and it's there. This doesn't have to be put, um, this isn't a life sentence. Um, I would also say, you know, this is, this is an invitation. I know right now it's painful and it's challenging and scary, but this is your body inviting you into becoming the best you.

[00:45:53] And if you can lean into it, if you can lean into it, it is going to be the most exhilarating, fulfilling journey. You won't have to live a life of illness, right? So, and I can't guarantee you don't live a life of illness, but I can guarantee that this is your body inviting you into something entirely new.

[00:46:12] If you follow that invitation, if you lean into it, there's no reason because this is about us. Feeling our souls, awakening to our souls, and becoming the people we are supposed to be, we are meant to be. Right? What is dis ease? It's a lack of ease. If I'm not in alignment with my true self, with my true desire, with who I'm supposed to be in the world, with the reason I came to this earth, then it's really hard on the body.

[00:46:40] It's really, really real. Um, and the other thing I would say, which is going to sound opposite, but it's not. This is not your fault. This is not your fault. It's no one's fault. And people really try in these moments to blame just because the mind body connection is so powerful does not mean there's fault here.

[00:47:01] It's just actually how your body was built. It's how it was created. It's created to react when the line is chasing you. It just doesn't know you're not being chased by a line. It doesn't know that the stress of the finals, that the project deadline, that the argument with the spouse or family member is not being chased by a line.

[00:47:18] It doesn't know that. We can teach it that though. We can teach it that. But this isn't your fault. 

[00:47:26] Colette Brown: That's so beautiful, Kaley. And, um, what, uh, journey you have been on and what an inspiration. And I love that you're. You're allowing yourself to be this vessel of good news and spreading the knowledge that that only you could have received having gone through it yourself, which is, is, is hard.

[00:47:54] But at the same time, um, if I asked you, would, would you change things if you could in your past and what would your answer be? 

[00:48:04] Kaley Zeitouni: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. And thank you so much for saying that. And it's interesting that you use the word vessel. It's actually what my name means in Hebrew, Kali 

[00:48:13] Colette Brown: means vessel.

[00:48:15] Okay. There's a connection there. Yeah. 

[00:48:19] Kaley Zeitouni: I, I really believe because through my work, you know, I hear, I hear way crazier stories than mine. I can tell you like when you lean into it. You're no longer like the victim of the story that you can own it. Life unfolds and you know that to me, you're an example. So it's such an honor to get to have this conversation.

[00:48:43] Likewise, 

[00:48:44] Colette Brown: Kaley. Um, and so we're going to put in the show notes, um, how to reach Kaley, but Kaley, give us your website, your Instagram. Um, how can I reach you? 

[00:48:56] Kaley Zeitouni: Yeah. So you can find me at, https://kaleyz.com/. If you're interested in the course, there's, it'll be at the top. I have a blog there. I mean, there are dozens of articles of just living well with illness.

[00:49:10] It's actually, it does, it does address a lot of the mind body connection, but it's just to help people get through. You're day to day and you've got my podcast there. Everything's there.

[00:49:31] Colette Brown: Perfect. Thank you so much. And, um, is there anything that Is on your heart that you just want to leave us with today. 

[00:49:39] Kaley Zeitouni: I would just say, you know, zoom out and in a forest, you know, not, not what's directly in front of you to focus on what's directly in front of you. It's going to be really hard to move your purpose, to heal, to be well, to be happy.

[00:49:55] And it's really easy, especially today, especially today. Like we are being [00:50:00] bombarded by stressors and And what seems like the most pressing, urgent thing in our reality. And it is so crucial to learn to go past that and to not let. What's happening in our society, they do down at every moment and just, you are more than that.

[00:50:18] You're here for more than that. You did not come here to live a stressed out existence. That's not why you're here. Um, and there's a whole other reality. 

[00:50:31] Colette Brown: I love that. Um, Kaley, you are such a beautiful woman. Inside and out. And, um, I am so honored to know you and have this time with you and keep doing your work, keep showing up.

[00:50:46] And I know that, that we all need that reminder because sometimes it gets really hard, um, but we need to press through and your message. Is a gift to the world. And thank you for sharing it with me today. And, um, I look forward to more talks and more time with you and actually meeting you in person one day.

[00:51:07] Yes. Yeah. I can keep talking for the next eight hours. Um, but time is of the essence. 

[00:51:13] Kaley Zeitouni: Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you. I'm so grateful to you. I'm grateful to God and all 

[00:51:19] Colette Brown: Looking forward to meeting you in person. I know. Thank you, Kaley, so much. Um, and until next time, everyone, be well. You just finished another episode of Limitless Healing, where we dive into all things wellness.

[00:51:35] If you enjoyed this episode, it would mean the world to me if you would share it with your friends and family. Together we can plant seeds of hope that leads to transformation in our lives and the lives of those we love. Let's get healthy together.