Plants, People, Science
Horticultural science is the only discipline that incorporates both the science and aesthetics of plants. It is the science and art of producing edible fruits, vegetables, flowers, herbs, and ornamental plants, improving and commercializing them. Plants, People, Science, a podcast by the American Society for Horticultural Science (ASHS), will bring you the recent advancements in science, technology, innovation, development, and education for economically important horticultural crops and plants. Each episode features an interview with an American Society for Horticultural Science member, a discussion of their current work in the field, and the story behind their research. ASHS members focus on practices and problems in horticulture: breeding, propagation, production and management, harvesting, handling and storage, processing, marketing and use of horticultural plants and products. In this podcast, you will hear from diverse members across the horticultural community - scientists, educators, students, landscape and turf managers, government, extension agents, and industry professionals.
Plants, People, Science
Failure Is Not Final
In a thought-provoking conversation with Dr. Mengmeng Gu from Colorado State’s Department of Horticulture and Landscape Architecture, we explore the broader implications of resilience and the belief that failure is not the end. This engaging dialogue delves into how these concepts are not only vital in horticultural science but also in personal growth and development. Tune in for an episode filled with inspiration and actionable insights.
Learn more about the American Society for Horticultural Science (ASHS) at https://ashs.org/.
HortTechnology, HortScience and the Journal of the American Society for Horticultural Science are all open-access and peer-reviewed journals, published by the American Society of Horticultural Science (ASHS). Find them at journals.ashs.org.
Consider becoming an ASHS member at https://ashs.org/page/Becomeamember!
You can also find the official webpage for Plants, People, Science at ashs.org/plantspeoplesciencepodcast, and we encourage you to send us feedback or suggestions at https://ashs.org/webinarpodcastsuggestion.
Podcast transcripts are available at https://plantspeoplescience.buzzsprout.com.
On LinkedIn find Sam Humphrey at linkedin.com/in/samson-humphrey. Curt Rom is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/curt-rom-611085134/. Lena Wilson is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/lena-wilson-2531a5141/.
Thank you for listening!
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Welcome to the Plants, eople and Science podcast, a podcast of the American Society of Horticultural Science. I'm Kurt Rohm, I'm a professor of horticulture at the University of Arkansas and I'm your host for this episode. You know, sometimes we forget that there are people behind the science in the journals that we read, real people having real experiences, and we forget that science can be messy. Not everything works perfectly as hypothesized or planned. Often there is a failure and failures never get published.
Curt Rom:There can be that freak storm or weather event, the growth chamber or greenhouse that malfunctions, that cooks or freezes our plants, that analytical instrument that broke down right in the middle of an experiment and we lost it. The computer that died in the data files. We lost that wild mouse or raccoon that ate our results before we could get the data collected. Things just happen and it's just a fail. We have to start all over and we have to go back to the drawing board. Today we're going to talk about stories of having success that emerged from failure. Or, as I like to kind of misquote Winston Churchill, failure is not final. Today our guest is Dr. Mung Mung, joining us today and welcome. How are you Well?
Dr. Mengmeng Gu:thank you so much, r Rome, for having me. I am very good. It's getting a little chilly here in Colorado and the fall color is just awesome, so I'm good, I'm good. Thank you for having me.
Curt Rom:Well, good, glad to have you here. You know we are getting fall weather here. Finally, after several weeks of record-breaking high temperatures, we have seasonal temperatures today. Tell us what you do at Colorado State and maybe explain a little bit about your professional path to what you're currently doing.
Dr. Mengmeng Gu:And you probably know that I graduated from the University of Arkansas. After getting my PhD I got my first faculty job as an assistant professor extension specialist at Mississippi State University in Starkville at Mississippi State University in Starkville. After five and a half years at Mississippi State I moved further south to join the Department of Horticultural Sciences at Texas A&M. I became an extension specialist in Texas A&M and while at Texas A&M I went through the ranks of assistant associate and full professor. I have been working very closely with the Mississippi Nursery and Landscape Association and then later on Texas Nursery and Landscape Association and in general the green industry. So that has been my career path.
Curt Rom:Well, it's interesting, you've obviously climbed the ladder of success. Well, it's interesting, you've obviously climbed the ladder of success. You're a department chair of a large and renowned academic horticultural department. You've of know, because I know you. I know you have a story about a time of self-doubt, the time that you were on the brink of failure. Maybe you felt like a failure, but you've clearly overcome that. Would you be willing to tell us that story and I need to confess to the audience that I know this story because I was your PhD co-advisor Specifically, tell us about your PhD qualifying exams, that oral comprehensive exam that the PhD program at Arkansas requires you to pass.
Dr. Mengmeng Gu:Okay, well, thank you, Dr. Rom, for mentioning that. Let me just brag. Since you mentioned about our great institution here, let me just brag a little bit about my department, and we may be the largest horticulture program in the nation. It's the Department of Horticulture and Landscape Architecture and we have 366 students face-to-face and, in addition, we have about 150 online students, so we're probably the largest program.
Curt Rom:That's a good size program, no doubt, and a great reputation for a long time.
Dr. Mengmeng Gu:I appreciate that. So yeah, so let me tell you about this experience that I have had during my PhD in the Department of Horticulture at the University of Arkansas. You know, for all the PhD students they have to, there's one I guess I will call it a gatekeeping experience. They have to do the Ph qualified exam. So first you do the written part and then, after you pass the written exam, and then there's the oral comprehensive exam that the program requires you to pass. I did not pass the first time. I did not pass the first time, not pass the first time. I did not pass the first time. Although I think I did well in the written exam, I did not want to expect for the oral exam.
Curt Rom:You know Dr. Gu, I remember it really well as your professor and you know your co-advisor. I thought you were really well prepared, you did do well in your written exams and I expected you to kind of nail it, to hit the ball out of the park. But you know, it's my memory about your exam that you know you just didn't show us what you needed to show us and it kept getting worse and worse to show us and it kept getting worse and worse, and I could see by the faces of the committee members that you were in trouble and I was deeply concerned. And so here's what I remember about it.
Curt Rom:And you can correct me if your memory and tell me from your memory. At some point in time I realized that, quite honestly, you were failing and you were going to fail this exam and at Arkansas, if we voted a fail, that means you're leaving the PhD program. And so I actually asked that we suspend the examination. You know, essentially to hit pause. And I visited with the committee and I said that you're not doing what the quality of work that I think you could do, that you weren't representing what you know and that I wanted to hit pause for like six months. And there were a couple of committee members that said no, she's failing, this is it. And we had a conversation and I got them to agree that we're going to hit pause. And then I remember having to call you into the room and saying we're not completing the exam today. So tell me what went through your mind. I sent you out of the room and we talked for probably 25 minutes.
Dr. Mengmeng Gu:Yeah, I remember that experience and Dr. Rom and I think full disclosure here is said that I got the highest TOEFL score of all the international students. However, communicating in science and communicating in horticulture is different from the TOEFL test. So often I feel that I have the knowledge, I know the knowledge. Often I feel that I have the knowledge, I know the knowledge and I had difficulty in getting it out in the concise, in the accurate manner in English. And I think that's where the trust that you had in me that you know, through my studies I took the classes and everything and you know that I have been working really hard. So you, that's something that I appreciate very much, that you have the trust in me. You knew that I was up for it and, however you know, you didn't know and I didn't know why in that room when I was answering all those questions from the committee members and sometimes it just flopped and then I froze.
Curt Rom:Yeah, I think you froze. It's almost in my memory. If I had said Mengmeng, what's your first name I remember, you very likely would have gone. I don't know what my name is. You got frustrated and flustered, so we sent you out. We decided to hit pause. You could have quit. You could have said this is it, I'm going back, I'm going back home, I'm done with this. I'm not going to fool around. What motivated you? What kept you going?
Dr. Mengmeng Gu:Well, like I said, you know, I knew that you all trusted me and I also had the trust in myself Before that moment, before that moment, I have been the you know, always the top one student in my class and everything. So I also trusted myself that I could improve upon this short-term failure and we just have to work out a strategy to get past that point. And it was very mortifying, it was very scary. It was very scary when you don't pass that, when you have all the hope from your family that you come into the University of Arkansas to get your PhD and then in the middle that you failed. And that was not an option for me. So I promised to myself that I will do everything I can to overcome that short-term failure, and that's what I had in my mind.
Curt Rom:Well you know, and all is well that ends well. You came back the second time for your oral exam and you did nail it. You did hit the ball out of the park. You graduated with flying colors and essentially a perfect grade point, an outstanding dissertation with a lot of publications. I want to ask Did that experience, has that inspired you or motivated you when you faced other challenges or at other times during your horticulture career that you faced failure?
Dr. Mengmeng Gu:Exactly that experience really taught me a lot. First of all, you know, life is a long journey and any setback, delay, impediment is not the end of the world. It could be. And this experience I really see it as a blessing in disguise. It really motivated me and also, at the same time it helped me to work out a strategy Not only work hard but also work smart. Not only work hard but also work smart.
Dr. Mengmeng Gu:If you remember, in my second exam, you know, for six months my English couldn't have improved that much. So that problem will still be there. And because I know that knowledge, so we like one of the strategy is communication, communicating with all the faculty member to find exactly a clear expectation, and work with faculty. And then, number two, when I answer my questions, I use illustration to demonstrate my understanding, my answer. So it kind of gave me a little bit time to reflect, to organize my thoughts, to organize my sentences.
Dr. Mengmeng Gu:You know, before I answer the committee members and I wanted to make sure that I also one small technique was I always asked the committee to make sure what I heard is what they asked. That also gave me a little bit of time to come up with the answer. So, strategy, really work from the failure and work on strategy, see what's the best, how we could overcome that. So that has always inspired and motivated me to look at difficulty or failure not as difficulty or failure, but as a way to help improve myself. And I have been in this improving journey, you know, ever since we had that experience.
Curt Rom:Well, thank you very much, Dr Gu. You know thanks for sharing your story. You know I think it's very personal to talk about failure, but it's clear. Like again, as I said, all things ended well for you. And I'll be honest with you. I admit your story has inspired me. It's inspired me as an advisor for other students. I've told your story. It's inspired me. Your resilience has, I think, been inspirational and that's why I wanted to talk about it today Before we end. Do you have any final thoughts, anything else you'd like to say about perseverance and resilience and how you face failure?
Dr. Mengmeng Gu:I appreciate you asking that question. First of all, I just bragged about CSU Horticulture and Landscape Architecture Department and I also want to brag about the not as big department Department of Horticulture at the University of Arkansas. It really felt like a family when I was there, the faculty there, the fellow students there. If you remember, you know we all the grad students are in one grad student office and so we were kind of like a sister and brothers and so I had that mental support from you as faculty. I had the trust from you from faculty. I had the education from you know, by taking other faculty's classes. I really enjoyed that and also our fellow grad students helped me, supported me with the mental support. So I was at that point. It was very strong both I mean just mentally and academically because of the trust and the support from faculty and students and within the department.
Dr. Mengmeng Gu:So what I learned is I can't change the past. I didn't do well in the first time. I can't just cry on it for the rest of my life. What I did was just put it behind me. I worked hard, gave it all 120%, 200% and just gave it all and worked from that, worked out a strategy, moved forward Again. Life is a long journey. It's not failure, it's simply not successful yet. So that's a mentality that I have always have. We're just not yet there, and that just kept me going.
Curt Rom:Yeah, I think that's correct and, as I said at the beginning, failure isn't final. It's just another step in our journey, it's another piece of our intellectual and career puzzle. Well, thank you very much for joining us today, dr Gu. I very much enjoyed the conversation.
Dr. Mengmeng Gu:Well, thank you, Dr. Rom.
Curt Rom:I want to thank everybody for joining us on Plants, People, Science, a podcast of the American Society for Horticultural Science. We hope you've enjoyed this short episode in hearing that, like I said, failure is not final and resilience does matter. You can find a link to Dr Gu and Colorado State Department of Horticulture and Landscape Architecture on the podcast homepage architecture on the podcast homepage. The ASHS podcast Plants, people and Science is made possible by member dues and volunteerism. Please go to ashs. org to learn more. If you're not already a member of the ASHS, we invite you to join. ASHS is a not-for-profit and your donations are tax-deductible. This episode was hosted by Curt Rom. Special thanks to our audio engineer, Andrew Sheldorf, our research specialists, Lena Wilson and Andrew Sheldorf, our ASHS support team, Sara Powell and Sally Murphy, and our musician, John Clark. Thanks for listening.