Navigating Intentional Fatherhood in the Digital Age: Cultivating Connection, Resilience, and Independence in Children
May 23, 2024Episode 35
Dr. Suleiman Ijani
Ever wonder how to be an intentional father in a world where technology often takes the front seat? Jeff Nelligan, author of "Four Lessons for My Three Sons," joins me for a deep and meaningful conversation about fatherhood. We confront the reality that time with our children rushes by, with 75% of it vanishing by the time they hit 12. Together, we unpack strategies to connect with our kids beyond screens, sharing how we, as dads, can remain present and engaged despite the siren call of our careers.
Balance seems like a myth, especially in the juggling act of parenting, work, and the digital universe. This episode dives into the essence of building emotional connections with our children. Jeff opens up about personal routines that have turned into treasured family rituals, and Jeff and I explore how getting involved in kids' hobbies isn't just about the activities themselves, but about nurturing their emotional well-being. We're talking real, actionable steps to ensure our kids don't just see the tops of our heads, buried in our phones, but feel the fullness of our attention and care.
Ever wonder how to be an intentional father in a world where technology often takes the front seat? Jeff Nelligan, author of "Four Lessons for My Three Sons," joins me for a deep and meaningful conversation about fatherhood. We confront the reality that time with our children rushes by, with 75% of it vanishing by the time they hit 12. Together, we unpack strategies to connect with our kids beyond screens, sharing how we, as dads, can remain present and engaged despite the siren call of our careers.
Balance seems like a myth, especially in the juggling act of parenting, work, and the digital universe. This episode dives into the essence of building emotional connections with our children. Jeff opens up about personal routines that have turned into treasured family rituals, and Jeff and I explore how getting involved in kids' hobbies isn't just about the activities themselves, but about nurturing their emotional well-being. We're talking real, actionable steps to ensure our kids don't just see the tops of our heads, buried in our phones, but feel the fullness of our attention and care.
Welcome to Dad Puzzles Everything Dad. If you're questioning yourself about dad functions, duties and life in general, you've come to the right place. Parenthood can be tough. Learning to juggle caring for your baby with your career and also keeping things fresh with your partner can be a struggle, but we're here to make things easier with helpful tips for making the most of your situation. Being a dad may seem like a puzzle, but it's one you can definitely solve. Now here's your host, dr Suleiman Ejani.
Speaker 2:
Hello, we're so happy today we have a great guest, my good friend, jeff Nelligan. We have known each other for some time now and I got to read his awesome book and I was like, finally, please, let's get this important work in progress. So he's here today, so we're very fortunate to have you, sir. Based on your profile I don't want to go ahead and start mumbling about you, sir if you can introduce yourself my friend.
Speaker 3:
Certainly. Hey, suleiman, thank you for having me on. It's a privilege to be on with you. Know a fellow dad who's trying to find that way for other dads to really connect with their kids and, most important, get the most out of the kid. So it's a pleasure to be here. As for my background, I'll give you very fast. I was born in California, los Angeles, was raised there, went back to East for college, got involved in politics, worked on Capitol Hill for three different members. I was lucky to have two presidential appointments within the federal government and then now work as a public affairs executive in DC. And, most important to all dads, I have three sons and all three currently are military officers and this is kind of the end game for them for having a super childhood full of you know, character and conduct and good behaviors and attitudes, about which I speak about in the book that I gave you. Four Lessons for my Three Sons.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely, thank you. Thank you so much, so we can just probably go right ahead and share about the common theme I'll be sharing in my podcast about the balancing you know like you have work, family, you know and your health and stuff. So how do you get to do that, now that probably you have one missing? So, yes, I have those those one missing.
Speaker 3:
Yes, I have those children missing. You know, the balance is key and I think that any dad approach to being with their kids is you always err on the side of the kid and everyone these days. Suleiman talks about well, I'm so crazy busy and I have so many things going on. Lehmann talks about well, I'm so crazy busy and I have so many things going on, and you know about the third time I hear somebody tell me that I say you're not crazy busy, you're crazy disorganized. You know you brought kids into this world. That should be your primary focus.
Speaker 3:
And worrying about a job, particularly in the years when kids are younger, the work can be done after you've paid attention to the kids enough. When I was, when my children were young and all the way through before they, even after they left for college, I had pretty rough. You know political jobs where you're on call all the time, but the key one is always to show up for the kids and indeed a chapter of four lessons is, you know, always show up, and the idea is that you just you know the kids are the focus. You'll get to the work. Maybe you're getting to it at nine o'clock or ten o'clock at night or five o'clock in the morning, but the essence is the kids, and the more time you spend with kids, particularly when they're young, the better.
Speaker 3:
Here's a little known fact and it should be widely known and hopefully you'll be able to share it on Dad Puzzles is that by the time the kid reaches 12 years old, that parent has spent 75% of the time they're going to spend with that child for the rest of both of their lives. By the time the kid turns 18, it's 90%. So it's 10% after 18 years old that you're going to spend with that kid. So those early years from 0 to 12, you've got to make your impression made Absolutely, thank you.
Speaker 2:
You know, when people they look at the numbers like that, then maybe it will sink in for them like I have to do something, because a lot of times we just assume like, yeah, it's just a family or some people they don't even have that intentionality of knowing this is a family. They just yeah, my friend, thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 3:
They take it for granted, they take it for granted, and instead of raising the kid themselves, as I said, 75% of your time with your kid by the age of 12, they let the culture raise them, and anyone who thinks that the current culture in this country is suitable for raising a kid probably shouldn't have been a parent in the first place.
Speaker 2:
I'm telling you, my friend. Thank you so much for sharing that. And then we can probably jump into the next issue about with the technology and screen. Nowadays we have most of the time people, the time that they should be spending the time together, they are glued on some TV show or games or the phone. Yeah, please talk a little bit about that, my friend.
Speaker 3:
Certainly, and you know, suleyman. Let me just start with numbers, because numbers tell you the story. The CDC Centers for Disease Control 8 to 10-year-olds spend six hours a day on screens, the glowing rectangle iPads, iphones, computers, right. 15 to 18-year-olds spend seven and a half hours, 11 to 14-year-old spend nine hours and kids from three to five spend an hour and a half. Now, that kind of screen time, it is disastrous, it leads to catastrophe. It's a kid who is passively taking in all the things that you just mentioned the games, the TV shows, the YouTube binging Right mentioned the games, the tv shows, the youtube binging right.
Speaker 3:
Uh, obviously the social media aspect of it and you know, communicating with other people, strangers or friends right and that builds a kid, that is being raised, like I said earlier, by the culture and it's it's disastrous for families oh man, thanks.
Speaker 2:
Thanks so much for sharing those numbers, because maybe people will get to wake up. You know like I was also thinking. You know, with that, if people can fix that, they can maybe get a little bit of that 75% or that 90% before it's gone Right, this is amazing.
Speaker 3:
And the idea is, what were those kids doing for seven and a half to nine hours a day when they didn't have a phone? I'll tell you what they were doing they were around their friends, face to face, they were playing athletics, they were at the theater production, they were in the marching band, the Boy Scouts, the Girl Scouts, they were outside. They were talking, most importantly, with their parents, but then again, just like you said, it's the parents always at the same time scrolling away, you know, kind of ignorant, of the kid that is right next to them.
Speaker 2:
Oh man, and unfortunately, actually we are the victims Most of the time, dads. We are victims of this because moms you know like in their corners you hear them talk about this, how they complain about their husbands not being around because of the phone. So we need to do better as dads, for sure.
Speaker 3:
Yes.
Speaker 2:
My friend, thank you. So we can talk a little bit about the emotional connection because, know, you know, this is something that is uh, very, you know, is highly talked about and you know, with the whole thing, with the mental health, but uh, just the emotional, you know, between us and the kids. How can we improve that? Because if we have that distance, you know, so we're not connected. Already, physically and emotionally we can be there, but we're not together. So how can you really fix this? You know this situation, my friend well, I'll tell you, doctor the.
Speaker 3:
You go back to be glad, to what we began with. You know it's the kid is numero uno and everything else is secondary. And you know my always my advice to fathers who ask me of young kids or kids who are on an age is number one our previous topic. You yank the phone out of their hand, shock treatment. You sit down with them and you sign a social media contract in which you decide you're going to get an hour a day on your phone. You're not bringing it out in the car or at the dinner table. The router in the house is going off at 7 o'clock so you have no access to anything.
Speaker 3:
The second origin of it is the emotional attachment. You read in the book I had this habit of taking a 10 every Saturday morning to the most peaceful place on the planet, which is normally a high school bleachers. 8 o'clock in the morning and just sitting with that kid as a ritual and saying okay, what do you got to tell the old man? And here's what I have to tell you, tell me about your week. And each kid knew that this was part of the family life. Then, sunday, saturdays one of one of them, if not two, were going to the bleachers with nothing and just going to sit there and chat. And in fact I'll tell you, I had a kid get back from a deployment in Asia Japan, guam, pearl Harbor and the kid's 27 years old. And where do we go on a Saturday morning? We go to the bleachers. We went to when the guy was five years old and I just say, ok, open up what's going on.
Speaker 3:
Right that kind of indictment is priceless because the kid will tell you all the things that are on his or her mind and you can say the same thing to them and it builds that attachment that is essential as the kid grows up through months and years.
Speaker 2:
This is amazing. Naturally, this is something that probably they will relate down the road when you ask them what's the most memorable moment between you and your dad, which I'm going to ask you and I'm sure they'll be mentioning those moments, you know.
Speaker 3:
Oh yes, Like I said, if a guy did it at five years old, he's doing it at 27.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 3:
You know, Right. He'll never forget it.
Speaker 2:
Right Now for the curious dad out there, so they will say, okay, fine. Now for the curious dad out there, so they will say, okay, fine, we're going to go there. Maybe I love soccer, my son loves maybe basketball or something else, so maybe can we pick something. What do you do in that moment? Because they want to know the details a little bit, if you don't mind.
Speaker 3:
Sure, I mean normally we would talk. But another thing that I always did with them was my kids, and like some kids, kids were pretty athletic guys. So instead of just sitting on the sidelines, I made a point of sweating it out with them in every sport they did.
Speaker 3:
So we would spend weekends at fields you know, throwing a lacrosse ball, kicking a soccer ball, playing football, that sort of thing. We actually we also had a kind of a ritual that I didn't talk about in the book. Every evening for half an hour we would walk around the neighborhood, even if it was snowing or if it was raining. We'd just get out and all of us would walk around the whole family and just talk. And all of us would walk around the whole family and just talk. And again, that ritual, that attachment, just built up those good feelings between parent and child, but getting involved in whatever the kid was doing.
Speaker 3:
You know, I mean for other parents, you know the athletic metaphor is easy, but it's the same thing for a kid being in a theater production or a marching band, or the scout or the robotics club, anything that has to do with involvement, the kid's real interest in you know, savvy is something that the dad gets involved in.
Speaker 2:
That's beautiful, my friend. Thank you so much. And then you know so I hope folks will really take notes on this, because a lot of times you know we are missing that connection and and and it can be very obvious because I'm I'm not saying that this is a bad thing to dad's, completely, a hundred percent, but you can see that they have a preference. You know I'd rather hang out with mom, or you know they, they not they don't pick you. You know it can be very, very embarrassing. So you have to make sure that you have that connection, that the other parent feels jealous like, oh, why do they have so much connection? We need that.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, and you just have to build that connection. It takes time and effort. All the time and effort you put into your job, why don't you put it into your kid? The kid's much more important in the long run.
Speaker 2:
There you go. Thank you, my friend. So we have another thing that is quite popular at the moment how, let's say, with dads, single dads and stepdads? From your vantage point, what do you see are the challenges that these guys are facing, or what are the opportunities that they have?
Speaker 3:
Well, I think that you know, the most important thing for a single dad is to get along with the ex, because you know that's you've got to present that united front.
Speaker 3:
And the ex, you know, I mean, it maybe takes on some parts of some people, it's harder than others, but getting along with the X and then being able to, you know, be able to spend that time with the kids and things that all of you want to do, instead of spending time with the kids and, like we talked about earlier, the kids buried in a phone Right, buried in a phone right. You know, I mean, my first thing is my first always advice to a dad with you know who's got kids that are visiting every two weeks or whatever, or on weekends, and the kid shows up, you take the phone out of their hand and you say, okay, we're going to do something exciting right and another thing that I built in, you know and this kind of relates to how a dad relates to a kid is I always gave my kids tests, tests in public areas, where the kid was excited to undertake something that was different and, at the same time, was building an independence.
Speaker 3:
I mentioned in the book and you probably read it Right. I mentioned in the book and you probably read it we'd be in an indoor mall and I'd be with the three guys and the eldest was seven and the youngest was four, and I'd whip out my wallet and give them each a $5 bill and say go get change. I'm going to stand right here. It's not a race, but you need to get change and come back. So just take your time, I'll keep an eye on you. And, of course, a seven-year-old kid, a four-year-old kid they're excited as heck. They've got to wade into strangers in a strange place and make a transaction and they would come back.
Speaker 3:
Some kids would strike out at different stores. Sometimes a kid would come back with 20 quarters in their pocket, but they got that level of independence from doing something different and exciting. Or we take a mundane task like going to the grocery store and we get there and I say, okay, each of you get these five items, I'll be over in the produce section, Just bring them back to the cart. And not a race, Just bring them back. And then of course it would accelerate and then we're in a, it would decelerate, and then we're in a parking lot and I give a kid the ATM card and say here's the passcode, Go, get the old man 300 bucks Right. And in an airport, here's the paperwork, Go, get us five boarding passes. So you give kids these tests. They build on the independence and resilience and then of course it helps because when they're on their own with no parents in sight, they know what to do.
Speaker 3:
My youngest kid was five years old, in a big shopping mall with these unorganized parents who left three of the kids out of the 14th birthday party in the food court, while the parents just wandered off of the rest of the kids into a theater movie theater and my kid and his two pals realized immediately that they were all alone. Of course the two other kids start bawling, but my kid says, no, wait a minute. My dad once told me a college football game look for that guy who's got the stripe running down their pants. A guy or gal.
Speaker 3:
And that security officer or soldier or policeman, they will help you. So immediately they start scanning the crowd and they find somebody. After about three minutes, you know, go running up to him, grab his leg, saying we're lost, and they finally are reunited with the parents. But there's the real-world scene. You know a five-year-old who knows what to do and doesn't panic while everyone else is sobbing.
Speaker 2:
Right. So this is amazing and also it gives them confidence, you know, down the road, you know to, just you know like whenever they take all these different tasks, they'll be oh yeah, I've done this before with my dad. Actually, they are very proud of it, right.
Speaker 3:
And it translates throughout their lives. I mean, two of my sons have been in some tight military situations and they haven't blinked because a whole lifetime of having to get themselves out of a bind has paid off at that moment.
Speaker 2:
Right, right. This is amazing, my friend. Thank you for sharing. But I think our coaches, you know, like for the parents, nowadays, if it's a mall or big mall or place, they have to maybe have an extra eye. Because you got some circles nowadays.
Speaker 3:
Right, well, you do, you stand one off or you stand two off.
Speaker 1:
Right.
Speaker 2:
You know that way. But yeah, you know, it's amazing man, this is amazing.
Speaker 3:
But the world is. You know, the world's a very can be unfriendly place, but the sooner the kid can hit an obstacle and get over it, the better. We can't bubble wrap our kids you know, absolutely.
Speaker 2:
Thank you, my friend. Thank you so much for sharing that. So how can we prioritize our health, my friend? You still look very young and healthy and you know, how do you? You know, like what's the secret, my brother.
Speaker 3:
Oh man, I'm telling you, it all comes down to diet babe.
Speaker 1:
You know it's diet and that's easy, I mean you can walk into a supermarket and you know, exactly.
Speaker 3:
It's giant and that's easy. I mean you can walk into a supermarket and you know exactly what's healthy for you and what's not. And I think that's essential. And you know, two of my kids, for example, have never had a McDonald's hamburger ever in their lives. I mean, the whole health thing starts when they're young, as well as you know, when you're a dad, we never went to a fast food place. So I've got a kid 28, 27, who've never had a McDonald's hamburger. Now, think about that, you know. But that's illustrative of how we lived in a in a healthy way. The other thing is, I mean, obviously it's all diet. You know you eat the right things and you don't eat the bad things, right, right, but it's all. I mean, just you make a point if you have to do it at five in the morning or nine at night.
Speaker 2:
Right.
Speaker 3:
You get your fanny out there and either run or lift weights. You know, walk a ton, ride a bike, swim. You know, walk a ton, ride a bike, swim. You build it into what you do on a daily basis so that it's just muscle memory that you're doing something physical, and I think that's another thing. But you know, the health thing really starts with weight and in this country, 73% of people over 18, both male and female, are either overweight or obese. Yeah, 73, that's three out of four people are overweight or obese. Um, that's all diet. But you know, I mean at a certain point you can't. You know you can't run and you can't swim and you can't outlift diet, and so I mean, I think that's the key in a nutshell.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely, my friend. Thank you so much for sharing that and also, like through our discussions so far, you know, we can really, you know, get the point about the power of play. You know, just being active is definitely very, very important.
Speaker 2:
So my friend, talk us. You know, for a person like myself, for instance, okay, I'm there halfway, you know, like I've been there before. But for a person that is they have a five and six year old or seven, they don't have a teenager yet. So how, what can they do to prepare themselves? You know, through those years, you know so that when the baby's already a teenager, they know what to do and they're well prepared.
Speaker 3:
Well, I'll tell you, doctor, you know you go back to my first comment. You pound home in your own mind that 75% of the time you can spend with them is until age 12. None of the time you can spend with them is until age 12.
Speaker 3:
So you realize you have to instill those values of you know, personal courtesy and confidence and resilience and ambition in them early on so that they already have that foundation. And I will go back to I sound like a broken record here, I'm telling you. I go back to the glowing rectangle that we were talking about earlier.
Speaker 1:
Right, right right.
Speaker 3:
That has got to leave their lives. Because you just said earlier, you just said outside play. How about devoting that seven and a half hours a day on that phone to one hour on a phone and six and a half playing?
Speaker 1:
outside or just playing.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, I mean, if you get the kid off the phone, then you've got his or her attention and then you're raising him. The dad is raising him and the mom is raising him, not the screen.
Speaker 2:
There you go, my friend. Thank you so much. Let's talk a little bit about this. This is another important thing that we can deep dive into positive reinforcement.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, I like reinforcement. The thing is we know, you and I know as adult men that no one gets a free ride in life and that every kid and every adult hits those obstacles and setbacks and trials. You can reinforce a kid by saying, hey, you know, if it really gets hot, I'll be there. But one of the major stepping or impediments I see to kids really growing up these days, and even when my kids were young, is that parents always enable them. There's a new term out there called the snowplow parent. That is, the parent that breaks down all the obstacles in front of the kid. It used to be the helicopter parent. I think kids have got to fail.
Speaker 3:
This is going to sound counterintuitive, but some of the best times in my life were seeing my kids in a tight situation, in an athletic field or a social situation or academically.
Speaker 3:
I love seeing how are you going to react to this, because, guess what, there's another one tomorrow and there's another one next week. I once you know just to kind of bring home this story in a personal way my kids went to an all-boys school when they were younger and they had a sister school and the sister school was putting on a production of Pirates of Penzance, and so the sister school was putting on a production of pirates of Penn's ass. And so the sister school went to the ball my kid's school and sit my boy's school and said hey, we need pirates to fill out the cast. And so I heard about it and I said oh, this is great, guys, you know this, you got to do it. It'll look good on your record. And they said no, we're not going to do it. And then I said well, you know, you're used to being in front of big crowds. And I said every time, half, you know, out of 200 people in a crowd, 100 of them are cheering at you to fail, which is obviously the opponent's parents.
Speaker 2:
Right.
Speaker 3:
You know that's the way it works, right? And they said, no, no, no, no. And I said, okay, here's the deal I'll each give you $10, and we'll go to the tryouts and if you don't like it, you can come right on out and I'll be waiting outside. So that Saturday each guy had $10 in their pocket and they walked in the auditorium and I drove away and came back two hours later.
Speaker 3:
I was sitting outside the thing and they walked out and they were wearing a pirate's bandana and tunics and they had their pirate swords and they got in the car and I said, oh, I'm glad I didn't wait very long for you and the eldest kid goes Dad, we knew you'd leave, we knew you weren't going to stick around, we had to do this. And I said, yeah, right. So when you go back to the idea of positive reinforcement, I said I like reinforcement because they knew this was a test and they had to pass it and they could come out and sit on the curb for two hours or they could follow through and do this and of course they loved it, you know, and I figured that they would. But that's the opposite of snowplow parenting, you know, that's the parenting that says, look, you got to do this and there's, there's no excuse.
Speaker 3:
So I mean this maybe sounds kind of harsh to some of your dads, but I always say you know, if you're a dad right now and you're a little bit skeptical of the, the Nelligan way, and your kid is on a phone and and you know the culture's raising them, and 12 passes and then 18 passes, and you knock down any obstacles the kids are faced. Guess what? That same kid is 24 and he is living in your basement and he's getting really good at minecraft. And then you're saying what? What the hell happened.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely. That sounds harsh but guess what?
Speaker 3:
I've seen it dozens and dozens of times.
Speaker 2:
My friend. This is good eye-opener because a lot of folks actually they think they love their kids so much they cater to them with everything. You know this is. You know, this is yeah.
Speaker 1:
Thank you. Thank you for sharing that, if you want that 24-year-old in the basement.
Speaker 3:
You know gaming and getting really good at it. Then let them have all the time they want on the phone and never ask anything of them, and that's what you'll get.
Speaker 2:
Or you'll get them talking back to you what you'll get, or you will get them talking back to you, you know, like you know back at you, and or they rely on you and everything. What about? You know we're mortal, my friend, so if I'm gone, what's going to happen to you?
Speaker 3:
Well, you make a super point, suleiman. They rely on you. Last week, a survey was released by ResumeBuildercom, which is intimately involved with hiring managers and corporate types who actually do the hiring of college graduates survey. One of the many things that came out of the survey was that, of recent college grads entering the workforce, 25% of them bring their parents to the first interview. Now think about that. You're a college grad, you're going out for your first job in life and you're bringing mom and dad to the interview with you to talk about getting a job. That goes right back to what you just said. They, you know mom and dad are used to doing everything for the kid, even when the kid's 23 or 24 years old, going for his or her first job you know, I think it's the culture.
Speaker 2:
Some folks, my friend, they think they love their kids so much and you know, like other people, they should be jealous because, oh, I love my son so much or I love my daughter so much, but you don't know what you're. You know how much they're missing in. You know, in this world, in terms of being independent. You know.
Speaker 3:
Right, and you know I'll tell you Right. And you know I'll tell you, Suleiman, the goal of a parent and I hammer this home all the time Right, you as a parent, your job is not to build a relationship with your kid. Your job is to teach that kid to build a relationship with the rest of the world, which is right outside the front door, the grocery stores, the hardware stores, the neighborhood, the community, the volunteer opportunities, the athletic fields, the theaters, the scouts. You have got to make that kid able to get out there in that real world and thrive and strive and succeed and fail. That's your responsibility, is not to be a buddy buddy with your child, Because then what happens? He's either in the basement at 24 or he's dragging you along to an interview for his first job. Yeah, I know it sounds pretty harsh.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, I know it sounds harsh, but I'm told that dads are listening to this who may be in this kind of predicament or want to avoid this kind of predicament.
Speaker 2:
Right, right, my friend, thank you so much for sharing this eye-opening, important information and also through this maybe we can also foster the whole open communication with our kids. I think you already have that with your kids already and maybe some parents they don't have that, because maybe the dad has this big wall like oh yeah, like I'm very tough, or they criticize them whenever they're being vulnerable to them. So we need to probably, you know, be able to, to, to have that relationship where they're open to share with us anything so that if you know like it's something critical and bad, we can fix it in the front end. You know, before anything happens.
Speaker 1:
Can you talk a little bit about that, my friend?
Speaker 3:
It's essential that you have that relationship and, as I said, it begins early, you know. When the kid is four or five you're dragging them out to the bleachers on a Saturday morning to say hey, what's going on?
Speaker 2:
Tell me the good, the bad.
Speaker 1:
You know you start the conversation, who's your favorite teacher?
Speaker 3:
You know what's your favorite subject, what's your favorite car, when do we get the best burgers in town? You start it with anything, any kind of questioning. It gets the kid to open up. And so if the kid's opening up at 4 or 5, he's going to. He'll be opening up at 10 and 20 and 27. Because that's the way the reflex has been, you know, developed in the kid and in you.
Speaker 2:
Right, my friend, it's been such an amazing talk and we can talk and talk, you know. But you know, those are the couple of points that I wanted to make sure that we highlight, and thank you so much for really doing this.
Speaker 3:
I truly appreciate you, sir that dads come away from this not thinking that life is harsh or that you have to be too unyielding, but that relationship with your kid and you can be anything.
Speaker 2:
My friend. So how can folks find Four Lessons from Rising Three Sands, the second edition? How can folks find it, my friend? Certainly my website, ne know the second edition.
Speaker 3:
How can folks find you, my friend? Certainly my website NelliganBookscom. The book is also on Amazon. I have an Instagram account Nelligan underscore books.
Speaker 2:
On.
Speaker 3:
Facebook Jeff Nelligan Books and on Twitter at Resilient Sons.
Speaker 2:
Fantastic. I'll be sharing all those great links so that folks can follow you and learn some more from you. By the way, I'm an Amazon affiliate now, so I'll be looking forward to buying those books and start talking about the different books that I like so folks can look at them further.
Speaker 3:
That's great. I really appreciate it, Suleiman.
Speaker 2:
Thank you, jeff. I truly appreciate you, my friend. We'll be in touch and folks. Thanks again for tuning in at Dad Puzzles and check out our website. Check out our Instagram and YouTube. We'll be putting out some different information there so folks can be inspired and they can also learn how to be better parents, my friend. Thank you, sir, yeah.
Speaker 3:
Thank you. Thank you for doing this All right.
Speaker 1:
Thanks for listening to Dad Puzzles. We hope you learned something from today's podcast. Please leave us a review and give us a thumbs up, and don't forget to subscribe to our mailing list and YouTube channel Plus follow and like our Instagram and Facebook pages or any social media of your choice. You can also visit dadpuzzlescom for more resources that will help ease you into your parenthood journey. Thanks again for listening to Dad Puzzles.
