Cultivating a Love for Math: Dr. Aditya Nagarath’s Guide to Empowering Families and Overcoming Math Anxiety

Ever wondered how to turn math from a dreaded subject into a beloved language for your kids? Join us as we welcome Dr. Aditya Nagarath, a brilliant father of two with a PhD in Math and Computer Science, who shares his transformative journey from software engineering to developing educational tools that make math accessible and enjoyable for children. Discover why early math skills are crucial for academic success and how understanding math as a language can transcend rote memorization, setting your kids up for a brighter future.

But that's not all—Dr. Nagarath also tackles the pervasive issue of math anxiety, offering invaluable strategies to help both children and parents overcome this common hurdle. Learn about Elephant Learning's personalized approach to mastering fundamental math concepts and why fostering a love for math can lead to greater classroom participation and success in STEM fields. From practical tips on using storytelling and journaling to build mathematical confidence to the broader implications for future STEM education and AI, this episode is packed with insights and tips that can reshape your family's relationship with math. Tune in and equip yourself with the tools to nurture a love for math in your children, making learning a joyful experience for the whole family!

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

Welcome to Dad Puzzles Everything Dad. If you're questioning yourself about dad functions, duties and life in general, you've come to the right place. Parenthood can be tough. Learning to juggle caring for your baby with your career and also keeping things fresh with your partner can be a struggle, but we're here to make things easier with helpful tips for making the most of your situation. Being a dad may seem like a puzzle, but it's one you can definitely solve. Now here's your host, dr Suleiman Ijani.

Speaker 2: 0:44

Hello, welcome back to Dad Puzzles. Today we are very fortunate to have Dr Aditya Nagarath. He's an amazing dad of two and so he knows all about parenting. And we are very fortunate to have him join us, because not only about parenting, we want to chat a little bit about his project, which is mathematics. This is something that has been, I mean, for most of families. It's something that is very important to master, so I'm happy that he's with us and we can get the benefit of learning from him today. Welcome, sir, Hi.

Speaker 3: 1:25

Thank you for having me learning from him today. Welcome, sir.

Speaker 2: 1:28

Hi, thank you for having me. Awesome, awesome. Thank you, sir. So can you tell us a little bit about yourself? My friend?

Speaker 3: 1:35

Yeah, absolutely, I've got a PhD in Math and Computer Science from the University of Denver, went on to start a contract software engineering company where we put out 50 different applications for 35 different product lines over the course of seven years and at the end of that I decided to create a piece of software and a company around it with the mission to empower children with mathematics. And what we've done since then is we've helped over 175,000 students learn over 200,000 years of mathematics.

Speaker 2: 2:19

That's amazing, that's amazing, that's amazing, that's amazing. You know, you know, initially, I remember, you know, growing up we had, I don't know, like you know, in other countries they have these books, every book. They have at the back of it they have like a table, you know like table. You know one, two, three, up to 12. And you have to memorize a certain level. I don't know, did you get to experience something like this? You like, where did you grow up?

Speaker 3: 2:46

did you grow up here or yeah, I grew up here in the united states. I I was a grew up in a town called pueblo colorado okay and, uh, you know, like traditional mathematics at that time, 1980s, united States education.

Speaker 2: 3:05

Right right.

Speaker 3: 3:08

But, like the deal, is that, like when I got involved with this project, what we began? To understand was that what students are learning is language right and mathematics itself. If you consider it as a language, it becomes actually more important than the rote memorization or the execution of the calculations. So like demonstration in understanding of addition or multiplication looks like seeing a problem out in the real world or the equivalent of reading a word problem and then identifying which operators and how to use them.

Speaker 3: 3:55

I multiply these two numbers together and that gets me the information that the question is asking for. So it's the application of it. That's the understanding of it. So it's the application of it. That's the understanding of it. So that's the communication of it, and so like. If you don't have that, then the memorization of the multiplication tables is a waste of time.

Speaker 2: 4:17

Absolutely. Thank you, my friend. So so, for instance, you know, so I guess you know it's never too early to start teaching kids. So what do you think is the most critical skill that we should develop? You know that the kids should have before kindergarten, for instance well, yeah, that's mathematics.

Speaker 3: 4:32

So, like, on average, the average three-year-old can count on one hand. The average four-year-old can count on two hands. Right, um, four out of five students are starting kindergarten unprepared for the kindergarten curriculum, and what that means is that they don't understand the language of the numbers well enough to understand the teacher where the curriculum begins. Most of the time, the curriculum begins at counting to 20. So it assumes that the student knows counting to 10 coming in.

Speaker 3: 5:01

Now this is because of a gap that you know. Before I started this project, I believe the same thing, but that's what it is. Is this gap To kindergarten? Counting to 10 is can you give me 10 things, and the student's able to slide over 10 things and stop on 10. But to most parents, counting to 10 is well, look, they're doing it on two hands. So this gap, right in understanding the language gap what the research shows is that students in preschool that do more mathematics are better readers, they're better writers and they're better speakers.

Speaker 3: 5:41

Over time, time they perform better in all subjects. So it becomes like if you can get the student at a young age to understand more mathematics and come into kindergarten understanding the teacher uh, hopefully in everything, but mainly in mathematics then somehow you've set your student on a different trajectory. Like if you look at the graphs in some of these research papers, the trajectory of learning is different and it sort of makes sense because there's several things that happen been with mathematics. Um, that's different than the other subjects. So one is that you're you're sort of doing more mental gymnastics. Even in the example I gave, you have to hold the number 10 in your head in order to remember to stop on 10 right. So there's some like chewing gum and walking at the same time, but mentally going on here, right.

Speaker 3: 6:47

And second, there's this societal notion of numeracy, or innumeracy, or however you want to call it, where I don't have to be a math person, right, it's not that important.

Speaker 3: 7:01

And so like when the two meet, like there's, there's this issue. So like, if you're willing to compromise in mathematics, uh, then maybe you're willing to compromise in everything else. For example, if I'm not a math person, great fine. Maybe I'm also not a gym person, right, I don't like math and I don't like going to the gym, and at some point, why do I have to succeed in anything? It's fine. So these two things together somehow make math special, is?

Speaker 2: 7:43

what it?

Speaker 3: 7:43

looks like that's amazing.

Speaker 2: 7:46

So what do you think let's say are things that parents can do in terms of activities to foster the love of the numbers?

Speaker 3: 7:56

Well, so this is as simple as just using the language aloud, and the interesting thing is that the curiosity of the child allows you to do it. It's just maybe the anxiety of the parent thing is is that the curiosity of the child allows you to do it.

Speaker 3: 8:06

It's just the maybe the anxiety of the parent that says, well, the student's not going to understand, or the child's not going to understand this language, even amongst trained teachers, that students as young as four would exhibit concepts as advanced as division in a preschool area. But it was the adult in the room that didn't want to label it as division. Remember, this is how children learn language. We use the language in context and that's how they pick it up at that age in context, and that's how they pick it up at that age. And so not using that language is maybe what's preventing them from doing it faster or sooner. And so using that language is theoretically the panacea, right? Not being afraid to do your math out loud. Not being afraid to ask them can you go, get me three or four things, see if they can do it. Not being afraid to correct them if it doesn't match the language. It's just definitions. They're not like wrong or incorrect and it's not like harsh.

Speaker 3: 9:12

I mean I got a lot of comments on my facebook ads where, like people, will say something like let them be kids. I mean, they're still kids right, right they just have to use the words correctly. I mean, I do it with other things besides math too. By the way Right?

Speaker 2: 9:30

Oh, yeah, you know. I'm glad that you touched the issue about anxiety, which is the main thing that you're focusing on. So you know this can happen for, like both really kids and adults as well. No-transcript. Yeah, that's amazing. That's amazing.

Speaker 3: 9:54

So almost half of all Americans report having math anxiety, according to the surveys or research, or however they gather that information what are the most causes or triggers of this anxiety?

Speaker 2: 10:12

Because you know, let's say, I'm thinking they can have the anxiety, maybe because they had failed in the past or something like that, but what are the triggers that really makes them have this anxiety, my friend?

Speaker 3: 10:25

Well, I mean. So the math anxiety boils down to the meaning that we associate to the events in our life. You know what I mean. So what we talk about in the book Treating Mathematics.

Speaker 3: 10:42

Anxiety is this AI model? So if you look at what the abstract model for an AI looks like mathematically and it's really high level, and but this is what's happening is is you have a function that you're training and you have a set of inputs and you have a set of outputs, right, and you have a training function which alters, uh, the function. So this is what it would look like if I draw it, but the same drawings in the book right Inputs, function, outputs, and a training function which alters the function so that the inputs map to the outputs.

Speaker 2: 11:20

Right.

Speaker 3: 11:20

So an example of this, so that like it becomes concrete, like you feed this thing images and like you know, maybe it's a refrigerator and an oven and et cetera, and on the outputs you you write refrigerator and meat, right. And so, like, theoretically speaking, if you've got a good training function and you've cycled this enough times, you'll alter F and what you're hoping is the continuity of F when given similar inputs give you similar outputs.

Speaker 3: 11:48

So now, even if it's a old oven, it's yeah, that's still an oven, we're good, right, but and that's what the hope is, right yeah and so, philosophically speaking, if you think about what would the inputs and outputs be for the human being?

Speaker 3: 12:06

maybe at least the initial system the inputs would be our experiences and the outputs would be the meaning that we're associating with those experiences. And the interesting thing for the human being is is that we get to control that meaning. And the problem for the children is is that? Well, it's typically the adults that are controlling the meaning, because they don't know where to derive the meaning from, and so, for any endeavor that we're in, we're going on right. So, like, say, I want to go play basketball, or say I want to learn mathematics, the, the meaning associated boils down to I can do this or I can't do this, and then what happens is that the system starts to look for evidence to support whichever direction we're kind of trending towards Right.

Speaker 3: 13:02

So what we talk about in the book, then, is the strategies to keep the student on the I can do it path Right, you want to continue. And telling them that you can do it, I believe you can do it. And showing them look, you just put the ball in the hoop, you can do it, I believe you can do it. And right, and showing them look, you just put the ball in the hoop, you can do it. Right, because with mathematics versus basketball, right. This is the analogy that kind of we introduce also in the book. It's kind of necessary right Like English and mathematics. That's the game when it comes to education, right? If we don't teach you to read comes to education, right.

Speaker 3: 13:35

If we don't teach you to read, write and speak and we don't teach you at least basic mathematics, so that you can work with money, then we failed right, right, absolutely and so, uh, but with basketball, well, maybe you want to go play soccer, that's fine.

Speaker 3: 13:52

If you want to play baseball, right, like there's other options, but over here, here, there's no other options. So we, we need to keep them on the I can't path. You can't let them trend to the I can't path. But, yeah, that in a nutshell, is this right? And so like, yeah, like the the thing is, I'm not a math person, it's a justification.

Speaker 2: 14:17

I can't do it because I'm not a math person. I'm out. Good, we gotta end that. Yes, we have to end this.

Speaker 3: 14:21

Well, you can't you can't allow them to get to the place where the okay, that's it, I'm, and that's it I fused it. That's who I am.

Speaker 2: 14:28

That's my identity right, oh man, this is amazing, this is good. Uh know, because I think it's a dilemma that most of us growing up we have this, even in you know, like in universities, people say you know, I'm choosing this major because I'm not good at you know. We admit that we're not good at something else, so we kind of give up 69% of STEM majors switch majors.

Speaker 3: 14:51

Because of the mathematics requirements they used to switch to business. Because of the mathematics requirements they used to switch to business. They don't do that anymore because now business is so statistically driven, so data driven, because of the infiltration of computing devices, that even then these professors are having a hard time conveying some of the most important materials and so they end up switching to humanities. And the fear point is this Now AI the same silly thing that I drew there is starting to generate, like I'm literally trying to write an email with ChatGPT.

Speaker 3: 15:28

I'm looking at I don't like what you did and I don't know what to tell you to fix it, so maybe I'll write a piece and tell you to end it right, like how about that?

Speaker 2: 15:36

Right, right, oh my, you see, wow, wow, and you know, you know, I'll ask you for sure, after all this, what do you think is going to be in terms of AI, because you know, this is, this is a big thing. Now you know, with education, that we are not doing good in math, or we, you know we keep ignoring math.

Speaker 3: 15:58

I think that's something big that's going to happen for us, right? Well, I think that we know that people need to learn mathematics. I mean, it's the foundation of STEM. I think it's a great thing if politicians and business people can speak the same language as the engineers and the scientists, if they could understand the evidence and the evidence-based uh stuff that the people are producing.

Speaker 3: 16:24

Right, because for decades we've known that like yeah, okay, fine, the, the numbers can say any story, uh, that like someone intends them to say right, we've got evidence that climate change is not happening, or that fossil fuels don't do it, or I mean both sides of every political issue has evidence behind it at this point, so it's not like we don't know. It can't be manipulated. The question is is can we identify what's been manipulated, or why or how Can you read it and understand that this is not the thing. Identification of truth, which starts philosophically with mathematics. Can we measure it? That's sort of what science is based on. So the challenge is twofold Can we get more of the population to believe they can do it? Can we get them versed at an age where it makes sense? So, like our goal at Elephant Learning was to, can we get them those concepts so that they could participate in the classroom? Because if they could just get to the college level and still understand what people are talking about, then we're good.

Speaker 3: 17:39

And actually, what the data shows is for the 20% of students that do enter the education system first. The education system works. So, go figure, when the student comes in able to understand the teacher, they actually learn things from the teacher. Wow, right, right. So like, philosophically, it matches the data that we're collecting. So why don't we see if we can get them to that level? And we believe that's what we've accomplished, because some of our most glowing reviews look like you know my students having fun in math class now and it's like, yeah, if I can understand what we're talking about, this is a new way to solve a problem that I'm already familiar with, so this is fun.

Speaker 2: 18:23

Right, right, this is amazing. So this is actually on the part of the you know folks that are teaching it, you know. So what are the other practical strategies, for instance, that parents can use to overcome this anxiety.

Speaker 3: 18:38

Well, so, for the anxiety themselves, it's like they have overcome it, maybe not potentially with mathematics, but with something right, like there is always something that a human being has overcome At some point. I believe I can do it, and then I prove to myself I can do it, and so, like you've overcome that question. And so the deal is is that, like in the book, in the exercises, a lot of the things is is collecting your stories around your experiences, maybe some journaling around it, if you like yeah, you know, like what am I feeling? Like I'm, I'm afraid I'm going to make a mistake. Okay, what does it mean? Right, like, how do I double check it? How can I?

Speaker 3: 19:19

fix it Right, like I mean, once you get it on the piece of paper, you can work with it in a way that's different than if it's just roaming around in your head. And and then yeah, I mean once you believe you can do it and once you believe other people can do it. If it's just a matter of sitting down and trying to understand it, then that's what you end up doing.

Speaker 2: 19:45

So my friend, this is good, so. So, for instance, you know, I know like your, your program can probably, you know, personalize. You know items, okay, yeah, you know this child is not good at this part, you know like they need to work on that. But, for instance, for a parent that is not really well versed in mathematics and they're trying to, you know, upgrade, you know, like I bring the kids and you know what can we do to identify those. You know those that, oh yeah, my child is struggling or I'm seeing some signs. Now, what are the signs? What are the things that we should pay attention as parents?

Speaker 3: 20:20

Right, so I mean what we do in our system is we identify very quickly what is their level of understanding and then in our dashboard we have actually what would be the teacher training, but in parents, in plain language right for how? How would you do this? How would you do this outside of the system?

Speaker 3: 20:47

what could you do to support it if you want to be more involved. But but more than that, right, we have a process that you can run where you just try the activity and then you ask the student why do you think this is the right answer? And when you hear their response, you're probably going to be able to clarify the language, because, at the end of the day, we cover from counting through algebra. Because, like, at the end of the day, we cover from counting through algebra and none of the things that we're talking about are. I don't think advanced right.

Speaker 3: 21:22

Like they're fundamental type things and so 90% of the time, the parents are able to step in, they're able to help their student through our system. The parents able to step in, they're able to help their student through our system. So the the book rethinking math learning, the first book I wrote was like, hey, how could you try to replicate this at home? And I mean, yeah, we, we personalize it for the student at the level of our algorithms, were, you know, like created to quickly determine what does the student understand, what don't they understand? And then like, okay, good, now let's fill the gap with those activities that we've known, that early education researchers have already shown. Okay, that's how you fill that gap, that's how you teach that concept, that idea.

Speaker 2: 22:11

Amazing. You have to share all those great resources so that folks can look them up and also get to learn and, you know, make sure that our kids they do better. I'm really happy that you are really excited to join us, because we need to make our families you know better. You know in mathematics so that we don't really worry about them, you know with their future, you know. Yeah, you know in mathematics, so that we don't really worry about them, you know, with their future, you know.

Speaker 3: 22:34

Yeah, I agree with that Again, if you can get more students going into these STEM paths then, I don't think you have to worry too much about AI, because it's really these algorithms that control the AI. So it's really these algorithms that control the AI. So it's the human beings that are doing it.

Speaker 2: 22:57

Okay, okay, awesome, my friend. So I have a quick question, adichie. What do you think the next parent on that puzzle should you know? What question do you have for them so that we can push the envelope, you know, with the fatherhood?

Speaker 2: 23:16

So the questions Just any question that you think, let's say from your experience as a dad and you know also as a guru in your field, what do you think is the question that next parent, as a, we have on on on the platform with us, you know? Should we ask them to answer so that maybe oh, what question should you ask the next guest?

Speaker 2: 23:39

yes, please, oh, um, just just. You think something that is good, that would be helpful with the fatherhood. My friend, you being a father of two and and you're working with the math, for instance, I like how we shared about how your son came through and he was writing, you know, like he was doing all kinds of math at your office. You know, just writing stuff. That's amazing.

Speaker 3: 24:05

Well, I mean, I think it would be interesting if you had someone. You know what's tough, for almost every parent is getting kids to eat oh my goodness, yes, yes, yes yeah, and you know they and they don't like the healthy foods.

Speaker 2: 24:25

You know that's the problem too. So we have to kind of be, creative huh.

Speaker 3: 24:29

It's always like some sort of a bribe of sugar after you eat whatever you don't want to eat.

Speaker 2: 24:35

Right, right, my goodness. And what kind of games do you normally play with your kids, or something that you recommend? I'll ask them about that, I'll definitely share about that, but this is another question with you, just personally what kind of games do you normally do with your kids?

Speaker 3: 24:51

Whether it's at home or the park yeah, yeah, I mean, sometimes we're riding bicycles, sometimes we're like we're doing activities. I think I tend to, uh, maybe I get them to play all the learning. Sometimes we're watching a movie together, sometimes, uh, you know, my second grader he's. He learned to play chess this year. It was like an after school for chess. So I think that one was interesting, because I like that. It causes him to think a couple steps ahead, right so, but like I've had challenges getting him to maybe play some of the board games earlier on, so maybe it was just an age thing. Maybe now he'll sit down and concentrate and do it.

Speaker 2: 25:37

There you go, there you go. Awesome, my friend. Thanks so much for really doing this. I appreciate you. How can folks find you and find your great books, my friend?

Speaker 3: 25:47

Yeah, thank you. Thank you for having me and thank you for putting this all together. And if you check out elephantlearningcom, you'll find out about the software and also our math anxiety programs, but also the book. Both books are available there or through Amazon, and you can always follow us on Facebook or LinkedIn. We're always sharing resources, fantastic.

Speaker 2: 26:17

Well, thank you so much for doing this, and really for all the other fathers you know, or anybody listening as a parent, you know, because this is something very useful for the community, really, not just dads. You know, sometimes we have families where mom is the only one available. Please go ahead and follow my friend on his social media and check out his resources that he provided. I'll be sharing them in our links. And then also just remember that it's never too early, you know, to teach your kids, you know, to develop this love for math. You know it's never too early and, of course, it's never too late. So please do that and thanks again for tuning in. Until next time, keep puzzling, thank you. Thank you, my friend.

Speaker 1: 27:09

Thanks for listening to Dad Puzzles. We hope you learned something from today's podcast. Please leave us a review and give us a thumbs up, and don't forget to subscribe to our mailing list and YouTube channel Plus follow and like our Instagram and Facebook pages or any social media of your choice. You can also visit dadpuzzlescom for more resources that will help ease you into your parenthood journey. Thanks again for listening to Dad Puzzles.