Two Chicks and a Hoe
We’re gonna dig deep into some really amazing people and topics — cultivating ideas about nature, the environment and conservation — in your backyard and globally. We want to share stories with you where the only intention may be for you to say,“Wow, I didn’t know that!”…and now that you do, maybe you might think about your relationship with it differently, share the information with a friend or get involved.
Two Chicks and a Hoe
Over & Under - Wildlife Corridors
Can wildlife corridors save species from the brink of extinction amid the relentless pace of human development? Two Chicks and a Hoe brings you an eye-opening conversation with Dana Page, a wildlife biologist from the San Francisco Bay Area, who sheds light on the vital role these passageways play in preserving biodiversity. This episode explores how corridors are essential for the movement, genetic diversity, and survival of species such as caribou, wolves, mountain lions, and even salmon. Dana offers her expert insights into the fragmentation of habitats, illustrated vividly with the challenges faced by mountain lions in the Santa Cruz mountains.
Ever wondered how amphibians like the California newt survive their perilous migrations across busy roads? We discuss a striking example at Lexington Reservoir, where these newts brave Alma Road to reach their breeding grounds. Hear about the innovative measures being taken by local agencies to design safe crossings, including the intriguing concept of underground tunnels. Dana shares the engineering intricacies involved and the importance of considering species-specific behaviors.
From apex predators to pollinators, every species plays a crucial role in maintaining ecological balance. This episode delves into the interconnectedness of ecosystems and the cascading effects when key species are removed. The episode highlights the indispensable roles of mountain lions in regulating prey populations and how small creatures like salamanders contribute to soil health. The conversation also touches on practical conservation efforts, such as planting native milkweed for monarch butterflies and creating green roofs to support biodiversity.
Santa Cruz Puma Project
Building the Largest Wildlife Crossing in the World
26 Most Important Wildlife Crossings Across the Globe
Milkweed Resources – Milkweed Watch “Engaging Citizens in Science”
Coyote & Badger video
Interview with: Dana Page
Things that make you say "Wow"!
For more episodes and additional information visit the Two Chicks and a Hoe website and our Facebook page.
Big thanks to our Producer, Casey Kennedy.
The wildlife who share our planet with us have had their habitats systematically destroyed and overtaken by human development. Their natural ranges often span much larger areas than national parks, state parks or wildlife preserves can provide. Some animals like caribou wolves, birds, salmon and elephants travel hundreds or even thousands of miles throughout their lives, and maintaining safe, consistent pathways for them to migrate has become increasingly rare and difficult. Hey everybody, it's Vanessa from Two Chicks and a Hoe, the podcast that talks to amazing people doing great things in the world.
Speaker 1:Today we're talking about wildlife corridors, these vital lifelines that piece together fragmented habitats, ensuring the seamless movement of countless species across the globe. Imagine a world where animals are confined to isolated pockets of land, unable to roam freely or access essential resources. Wildlife corridors offer a lifeline, allowing animals to migrate, forage and find mates across vast landscapes. From elephants to coyotes, these corridors serve as busy thoroughfares for a diverse array of creatures. We dig deeper into wildlife corridors, uncovering their importance, who uses them and their role in the survival of hundreds of species on our planet. So today we're speaking with Dana Page, san Francisco Bay Area wildlife biologist, all about these essential passageways. Welcome, dana, and thank you for joining us today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Pleasure to be speaking with you. Excellent, thank you. So you know, as I was talking to you originally about the idea and then, as I started to do more research on it, I had pictured in my mind bridges you know more about, like bridges over freeways, that type of thing. And then the more I read which it is that, but the more I read about corridors, it was there's a whole lot more to it, and let's kind of talk today what are these?
Speaker 2:corridors. A corridor can be interpreted as a passageway, but most importantly, a corridor is areas of land that wildlife, animals, plants can move through. So if you were to look at a populated area such as this area we are today, south San Francisco Bay, silicon Valley you have all this development in the center of this valley and you have a mountain range to the West, the Santa Cruz mountains, and then you have all this area to the East. So a corridor, in this sense, would be how is an animal going to move through wild places? Plants also are, are moving, maybe not as fast as an animal. Right movement of land, um, for you know, places for plants to to populate and grow and spread through wind or dispersal or pollination, um, so I think a corridor, to put it simply, is an area where things can move freely and safely.
Speaker 1:Because okay, so I think a really good example, you just said it, we are in the San Francisco Bay Area, which is a huge. You know it's considered a hotspot, one of the most important environmental hotspots in the world, yeah, but I think it probably has one of the most dense populations in the world as well. So we're talking about lots of different wildlife species, like you mentioned, anywhere from mammals to insects to plants, and then this amazing amount of human population that have moved into these wild areas over the years, and now you're having now the animals. My understanding is, the animals are having a really hard time now moving from one area to the next area and causing, of course, a tremendous amount of problems for them as species. Yes, seeing that they're having, they're struggling now moving from area to area because the habitats now become fragmented. Yes, okay, so that's where the corridors come in, correct, exactly? So tell me the different kinds of corridors that all these various species use yes, so a example and people can research this.
Speaker 2:it's a very well-known project but it's a project that was started by Chris Wilmers. He's a professor out of UC Santa Cruz. He was my conservation biology professor many years ago but he started collaring the mountain lions of the Santa Cruz mountains to see how they were moving, of the Santa Cruz mountains to see how they were moving. But if you look at the Santa Cruz mountains, there's an ocean on one side and then there's development surrounding these ocean or surrounding these mountains. So it's technically an Island and in conservation biology you study population dynamics and movement and gene flow.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So he, the project, came to the realization that because these mountain lions cannot move outside of this island, this land island that's become an island from development, from humans.
Speaker 1:Right, it's all, it's all, it's, it's all.
Speaker 2:It's surrounded by people, exactly it's surrounded by people and development and the ocean on the other side. But technically, this population of mountain lions, it will be genetically they call it genetically extinct in the next 50 to a hundred years because of genetic inbreeding.
Speaker 2:So there's no inflow or outflow of different genetics from other populations. So they started to color the mountain lions and figure out where they were trying to cross so that there could be crossings and areas, because on highway 17 there's a lot of lion kills. You know, animals are trying to get across our freeways and our roads and through these developed areas.
Speaker 1:So it really is kind of like the chicken to get to the other side. Yeah, they're trying to get to the other side.
Speaker 2:For what so dispersal?
Speaker 1:I mean because they're tired of living on the island by themselves.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, and it's a natural thing that you know family of mountain lions. The males will disperse and have a larger range and the females will stay within their area and so males have a larger range. So you have a lot of the males that they were finding in neighborhoods and causing issues are generally juvenile males that are seeking out new territory for themselves, but then they either get hit by a car because they're trying to cross, or they just end up in palo alto, right.
Speaker 2:So people are like a neighborhood and a neighborhood yeah, exactly, and so these corridors don't have to be bridges. Specifically, the one they're working on on 17 is going to be an underpassing that they're putting in it's not going to be um a bridge, it's going to go under the freeway. So yeah, these corridors are for dispersal, primarily for larger mammals okay, so.
Speaker 1:So let's get this really under an understanding of this. The mountain lion is moving away from its its birth area birth area, because that's one, it's a natural thing to. It's time for us to maybe potentially find its own mate and its own, its own people so not people, but its own tribe and it's moving to a different area.
Speaker 2:It's territorial, so it's going to go over the freeway, walk over the freeway, and we've seen the results of that or it's going to go through this like a conduit right, yes, like a tube, yeah, and so the part of the puma project was collaring them to see where water flows downhill easiest ways, to where the mountain lions naturally go into, where they would make sense for them to cross, and then that's where that corridor or crossing, or under crossing or over crossing will exist, because that's where they see them naturally wanting to move.
Speaker 1:So this is where this is the understanding to the tracking of all these animals to understand their natural flow, yes, and then not maybe forced and put a conduit or a bridge over an area that they would never go to yeah, which would be pointless got it, got it and is this project complete?
Speaker 2:um, the project is funded and funding's been approved, and it's not complete yet, but in the building stages, okay, and the very near building stages, yes so then would that change the the the statement you made earlier about them going extinct in this genetic line going extinct? Well, and so that's what biologists, conservation biologists, wildlife ecologists are hoping that then you get genetics flowing out but also in, and then to prevent that.
Speaker 1:So you have animals leaving and animals coming in? Yes, got it. Yes.
Speaker 2:Okay, got it. So there's movement and so the most important thing is to get them over to the Gavilan range, kind of in the South Bay, and then eventually beyond that.
Speaker 1:Okay, so tell me the other purposes of building a corridor.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think, or let me clarify that, because I think let's go back to the idea of corridors, yes and what they are, yes and so specifically looking at that project, it's an undercrossing, okay, you see projects all over the world, world over crossings, but I think a corridor isn't something as specific as that pinch point. But a lot of what land agencies are doing is selecting purchases and looking at a more regional approach to coordinating with groups. You know so all of the land agencies within the bay area, non-profits, save the redwoods post, open space authority, santa clara, county parks, state parks. What land can we buy between our lands that are then going to be protected in perpetuity so that these animals they don't have a pinch point, because the pinch point's probably like last resort?
Speaker 1:right, you don't want them for yeah, exactly so scary place to go it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and so I think, uh, coyote valley was just a pretty big purchase that happened with the habitat agency and so as silicon valley expands and people want to grow more, it's kind of this land grab of uh, can we get it before the developers. So a lot of the property that land agencies are getting is land that people bought for development. Um, that, um, for whatever reason. You know, it's funny how a lot of times economic, poor, economic times do really benefit wildlife, and what agencies instead of development, yes, instead of development, so kind of.
Speaker 2:Because of this lull in building after covid, a lot of properties are coming available for cheaper than anticipated.
Speaker 1:But also everyone that's involved in, at least in the San Francisco Bay Area and hopefully other areas throughout the world. You can get this larger network of connectivity and connection through being strategic about your purchases and what is protected. So you're saying that all these parcels of land are becoming connected now, meaning that it's land and land and land, making a seamless corridor of wild area for the animals to move through, or the, you know, the birds, the insects, everything to move through. You can hear how important the wildlife corridors are, and they certainly come in various forms, far more than the bridge, the idea of the bridge that I had initially imagined. Wildlife corridors are thankfully popping up across the globe and, as we continue the conversation with Dana, I want to highlight what are being considered some of the top corridors of the world. On our website, 2chicksandahoeorg, I have a link to what are being considered the 26 most important, but one of them it's called the Tira, and I hope I'm saying that right.
Speaker 1:The Tira Arc Landscape landscape is a narrow subtropical wildlife corridor between India and Nepal, crossing 11 protected areas. Grasslands, forests, river valleys are all home to rare and threatened species, such as the Asian elephant, the Indian rhinoceros and the Bengal tiger, all of these animals and so many more are using this important corridor, and and when I say insects too, I mean I don't see like a herd of you know, grasshoppers going forward, like in the big migration of the grasshopper kind of a thing. But I understand too, for example, checkerspot butterflies, which are indigenous to this area, monarch butterflies, of course, the most popular butterfly the whole idea of creating areas for these insects to stop as they're on their migration to their destination. For butterflies or monarchs, it's potentially parts, parts of mexico, for, yeah, for their annual migration yeah, so that's a great way to explain.
Speaker 2:When I talked about corridors and this connectivity, and you know the charismatic macro fauna like a bobcat or a mountain lion, it's pretty obvious and that's why I also referred to it for plants, because plants are important for these insects right so if you don't have conserved land that has these special plants, that specifically the bay, the san francisco bay checker spotted butterfly, needs specific larval hosts. Okay, so plants that it needs to eat in order for the larvae to be successful, to become adults, right.
Speaker 2:And there's no huge migration of the San Francisco Bay checkers butterfly, but it needs to be able to have these larval hosts.
Speaker 1:These are historical migrations. Yeah, well, and then?
Speaker 2:like the monarch butterflies, historic huge migration. You know mexico, all the way up here, and so thinking about milkweed, right, one of their, that's one of their hosts, but they need, you know, many plants, but yeah, so just having these connected areas where these butterflies, insects, can move freely and go from plant to plant, because obviously they can fly, but if they're flying through a city, where are they going to stop and rest or eat or all of those things?
Speaker 2:So yeah, so it's easy to talk about mammals, but the plants are equally important, and then the insects that come along with those plants.
Speaker 1:I thought this was a good spot to tell you all about the Bee Highway in Oslo, norway. The citizens there have created the world's first highway designed for bees. The city doesn't have enough urban parks, which means they have reduced amount of plants for pollinators like bees, so all citizens are called on to contribute by planting flowers, plants and by creating houses for insects in order for them to provide shelter and food along the city's arteries for the bees and the pollinators. What about amphibians? Because I heard you. I heard a, a conversation, a presentation that you gave you, and you spoke specifically. I think it was about california newts. Yes, so tell me about amphibian crossings or, I guess, the use, how the amphibians use these particular types of corridors yeah, and so amphibians aren't.
Speaker 2:So amphibians aren't migrating at a scale that those monarch butterflies are, but they are crossing to get to the things that they need within the landscape, which generally. We talked a little bit about the California newt and all amphibians need to go to water and some of them are breeding in the water. Some of them need to stay moist. They're going from water habitats and moving to upland habitats in the non-wet season to forage to live. So with the corridors, I think with amphibians, a huge thing is roads and traffic and vehicles on roads, and so if you looked at a map of the land, you know pretty much all bodies of water have a road around them.
Speaker 2:So, a project I talked about in that presentation was at Lexington Reservoir and the newts that are coming off that hillside. There's some mountains above Lexington Reservoir and the newts that are coming off that hillside. There's some mountains above Lexington Reservoir and then you have Alma Road and so all these newts are trying to cross that road to get to the reservoir and they like to migrate during the wet season and on Highway 17,. So back to Highway 17, busy road for people commuting from Santa Cruz over to Silicon Valley, and then it rains, there's accidents, so a lot of people will reroute when there's accidents during the rainy season, onto this Alma Road to circumvent the traffic on 17. To circumvent the traffic on 17.
Speaker 2:So a concerned citizen that hikes out there frequently brought it to all the local agencies' attention that there's a significant new mortality happening on the road as the newts cross the road to get to the other side, to get to water, and they were concerned because you could physically see all the animals. So, um, a few agencies have gotten together to study that mortality and now they're working on developing, uh, a crossing which isn't necessarily a corridor but more of a crossing. What kind of crossing? Um?
Speaker 1:there, that was a like, a like a school crossing guard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's no new crossing guard, but, same as the mountain lions, I think when you study how they're moving, the majority of them are probably moving within the same areas of the road where water traverses the road where there's part of the watershed that gets low, and maybe there used to be a creek that ran in, so they're still taking these routes.
Speaker 2:So these crossings are still being engineered. There's a lot of people trying to develop different kinds of crossings that are suitable for amphibians. A lot of work has been done up in Sonoma for the California tiger salamander Okay. A lot of work has been done up in Sonoma for the California tiger salamander Okay. That's an endangered salamander species and in areas of development they're requiring mitigation for people to put in these crossings. So a lot of them do go underground and it would just be like a tunnel underground Right.
Speaker 1:So it's a tunnel, which kind of makes sense, yeah, for amphibians, for amphibians exactly exactly wow so, but, it's still kind of unknown the success rate of a lot of these engineered.
Speaker 2:What's the best thing? I'm sure every species kind of has a different preference, you know, and if you were a salamander would you want to go into a black, endless hole you know. So I think some animals are pretty cautious but there's some burr, some structures that they can put up to kind of funnel them. Think of it as a funnel, so salamanders can go straight up, so they'll kind of put.
Speaker 2:So they have to go through yeah, so they'll kind of be able to capture the migration of a hundred foot area and they'll kind of just naturally follow a wall until they can get through right and then. So they'll follow that wall and be funneled to this tunnel and then be able to get to the reservoir safely without getting run over. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, that's awesome, so that specific project is still in the planning stages that has not been executed yet. Okay, so they're looking at design ideas currently.
Speaker 1:I'm curious if you have heard of any type of predation on the other side of that tunnel. You know? I have this vision of everybody using that tunnel. And then you have the predators going. This is awesome. Hey, you got to come over here during this week because you should see all the freebies coming through the tunnel.
Speaker 2:I'm just curious. Yeah well, it would make sense. The unique thing about the California newt is it's actually poisonous. Oh, so it actually has a tetratoxin and so it's evolved to have this poison, so it doesn't have many predators.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. And so I think one of the only known predators of it is a garter snake, who has evolved with it and has built up a tolerance to the poison. So the garter snakes will eat them. But once they eat them they become very lethargic after and it takes them, you know, it slows them down, right right. So there's some folk, folk tales of, uh, you know, people camping and the newt getting into their kettle and then drinking it and dying from. I don't know if that's valid, yeah, or just folklore or truth?
Speaker 1:but so specifically newts.
Speaker 2:Just as California newt has that poison, but other salamanders I'm sure would use it. Other amphibians, yeah.
Speaker 1:So you brought up snakes I'm thinking everybody is snakes would use at other amphibians. Yeah, so you brought up snakes, I'm thinking everybody is snakes would use these as well.
Speaker 2:These over-underpasses, and I think it's hard to get a catch-all for everything, and so that's why I think future generations, future planners, have to really think about roads.
Speaker 1:So, as Dana pointed out with the amphibian crossings, not all animal crossings are designed for large mammals or even for mammals. The annual migration route of millions of crabs on Christmas Island crosses roads, golf courses and beaches. The crabs live deep in the island's forests, but migrate en masse to the ocean to breed and lay eggs each year. To help facilitate this mass migration, more than 20 kilometers of barriers are put into place to direct the crabs away from the roads and into the 31 crab underpasses. There's also a five meter high crab bridge crossing at one of the area's busiest roads. So I know that there's laws in place that won't allow developers to build you know, to develop so close to a creek or a waterway and they have to stay so many feet away from it. Is it the same thing that's happening with roadways? In terms of, yeah, are these things being considered? Are animal migration paths being considered when they're thinking about putting in new roadways?
Speaker 2:Well, I don't think they have been until recently. Okay, okay.
Speaker 1:Right, so I think there's hope.
Speaker 2:But a lot of the roads you see were historic roads. Right, right, right, right, everything easiest path water, humans, animals.
Speaker 1:Right right, and it probably didn't have as much impact as it does now because of the exploding population.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. So I think that's a huge thing. But there's large snake mortality on roads also because they like the heat of the road in the summer. So, as a you know, a biologist, I have a very keen eye for a search image. So I'm driving and you know I break for newts.
Speaker 2:I break for newts and I swim for snakes Very good, I love it, and so you do see a lot of snake mortality in the road as well. So I think it's because of the population boom. It's a bigger problem and conservation biologists are realizing the problem that the species are dealing with because of the traffic on roads and the animals are also attracted to the roads the snakes for heat and other animals just trying to move across the road right, right yeah because of historical migration paths yeah, and I mean animals probably just went everywhere before and then you get so many roads right how are they gonna, how are they ever gonna avoid a road?
Speaker 1:many roads right. How are they gonna? How are they?
Speaker 2:ever gonna avoid a road?
Speaker 1:well, yeah, so who? Who's using all of these? I mean, I know you've already said you know the amphibians and uh, and mountain lions, but we're talking about bears and bobcats and all the the ungulates, all the deer and what have you?
Speaker 2:everybody's using these, right yeah, um, there's a uh. The video that went viral of the badger and the coyote going through together right yeah, going through together.
Speaker 2:So that's amazing. They're being built for probably some specific animals that we're concerned with, and that's kind of been an approach of many conservation biologists. Uh, you call it an umbrella species, right, so you conserve something for this one species that's endangered, but then it will protect all these other things as a result of that. So bobcats are using um, the badger, the coyote bears if we had them. So just another place for animals to move through.
Speaker 1:Wow, together, if they have to. Dana mentioned bears, and Banff National Park in Canada is home to bridges specifically created for animals. The passages, 10 to 16 meters wide and covered by local fauna, aim to induce the animals, such as deer, moose and bears, to cross the bridges, rather than the heavily trafficked Trans-Canada Highway. To date, conservationists have documented more than 140,000 animals crossing the highway, either using the bridges or the underpasses. Yeah, wow, so, in the importance of these. So I've written just a couple of things down. Safe passage, of course, you know, to get in, to get to the other side, whether it's under or over Historical migrations. You, you know, that's the way they've always gone. They need to get there for a certain reason. Uh, and you talked about the whole connecting habitats, which makes sense because it was always a one habitat that got fragmented, okay, and then, uh, these genetic islands can. Can you, you know this isolation. Can you explain that a little bit further?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'm trying to think of maybe a good example outside of the mountain lions, but so it's just. It's genetic isolation, where, if an animal can't move out of this terrestrial island, right, so we're not talking birds and stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because they can fly.
Speaker 2:Because they can fly yeah, um, so I'm trying to think.
Speaker 1:So, I guess, more importantly so. So what?
Speaker 2:why does it matter? Why does it matter?
Speaker 1:why does it matter that they that that, so they, it's a good population, it's a nice, healthy population. Why does it matter that it's there's a genetic isolation going on there?
Speaker 2:yeah, so the genetic isolation leads to inbreeding, which leads to extinctions okay and so I think that's what, that's the bottom line, that's the bottom line and the ecosystem services that a functioning ecosystem provide. When you take a predator out, like if you took the mountain lions out of the Santa Cruz mountains, then what happens to the deer population?
Speaker 1:Oh, what's going to happen to your garden and all the vegetation that is controlled because the mountain lion's eating the deers that are not eating all those plants, so the apex predator then is lost, and then the prey populations explode exactly.
Speaker 2:And so there's, the balance is totally off I'm trying to think of the word that they use trickle down or triple up effects. Yes, right, so you get rid of the apex predator, and then you have too many deers, and then you have more vegetation, and then you have complete shifts in ecosystems based and changes in ecosystem composition right, right.
Speaker 1:so it not only affects, of course, the animal populations, it's plant populations and the insects, and it goes on and on and on. All species are affected by this type of situation.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, got it, and so there's control from the top, from the apex, predators and the predators, but there's also bottom up control. So the alternate to that which a lot of people don't think about is those amphibians and those salamanders. And so think about what a salamander eats. A salamander eats sow, bugs, insects, all these things that are in that leaf, litter in that rich soil. So salamanders are having an effect on the composition of the soil, invertebrates that are then having an effect on the decomposition rate, right? So if you have, too many bugs.
Speaker 2:So if you don't have salamanders, yes, right then there's no one eating all the bugs, so then the bugs are decomposing the leaf litter quicker and then potentially like increasing all the decomposition and not storing carbon in the soil as fast as carbon would be stored, because then things are decomposing at a faster rate where carbon storage which, right, that's a whole nother great conversation of carbon being stored in ecosystems, in forest ecosystems, down within the soil, wow. So it definitely is all intertwined in this very interesting way where it's easy to think about a mountain lion and deer, but think about everything, and then to cross those two together. Then you have the mountain lion goes extinct and then the deers are eating too much, and then you don't have the plants that were in the soil, right. So once you start changing those vegetation communities, it has an effect on what's going into the soil and decomposing and what those nutrients are going to be, right. So maybe you don't have as many plants as you once had, so then your soil soils not as lush, so then you're storing no carbon. So there's obviously all sorts of scenarios that can kind of branch off of these very intricate relationships and how predators and prey and insects and everything interacts.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's awesome, yeah, yeah, wow. So I think you know the average person and I like how you frame that question of well, why does it matter? And I think a lot of people maybe. Well, why, what is the importance of my life and having a functioning grassland or a functioning ecosystem out there? But that's contrary to maybe your. You know your Amazon delivery or your food getting delivered or however people choose to live their lives, but that is all. You need a functioning ecosystem, right To have clean water, to have clean air, to have the food that we provide, to have clean water, to have clean air, to have the food that we provide. So it's many lengths away from a city dweller's mind, right, but without that humans could not.
Speaker 1:We don't have a chance. Yeah, we don't have a chance, thank you.
Speaker 2:Yes, wow, all right.
Speaker 1:so with that being, said we as humans, what can we do to help the wildlife around us? And I'm going to use the easy example. The hard stuff is for you, okay, but the easy example about planting milkweed, okay. So years ago, as some of my listeners know, I worked at a local institution here in the Bay Area and we were really big into and it's this is still cool and I hope that this is still happening. I'm not seeing as much of it. The green roofs and the idea is not just about.
Speaker 1:You know, throw some grass up there. It was about really specific plants that were picked for species, again creating a path, you know, from upper north, you know san francisco area, so that they could come down. I'm talking specifically about checkerspot butterflies, but we, we pick plants specifically to provide food for them on their journeys, so I can see where, in monarch butterflies, of course, milkweed, milkweed, milkweed, milkweed I get that. So you're providing resting spots and food for these creatures as they move along their life, their pathways. Okay, I got the easy ones and now you're up.
Speaker 1:So okay, so planting milkweed for monarch butterflies? Yay, and I okay. Okay, let me do another easy one too Planting native plants or planning food for pollinators, and, and I I'm not a native plant purist.
Speaker 2:I'm so sorry, but I think native plants are awesome.
Speaker 1:But I mean, I think, if you're planning, you know mediterranean, if you're planning plants that are well suited for the area you know and your water usage, the, the heat and what have you, and you're providing food for lots of different pollinators, because, of course, we have European honeybees here, not a native species, but as critically important. So, but being to provide food for all the pollinators, the birds, the insects, you know all of that. Okay, so I got that. So that's, I think, something that we can all do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, europe, europe, all of that, okay, so I got that. So that's, I think, something that we can all do. Yeah, europe, well, there is still a great organization. There's an organization I reach out to called milkweed watch. Okay, and you can order milkweed from them and they will give you a local, uh, variety from where you are and mail it to your house, nice. So, yeah, there's still. There's still lots of stuff happening.
Speaker 1:You can even. There's a thing called Save the Monarch that I gave away milkweed seed packets for.
Speaker 2:Halloween. Oh yeah, oh, that's right, yeah, so the kids, they love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they loved it. So that was just another way to get seeds out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I think what can people do? And so we we talked about a little in the class that we met but become involved in your local community and planning and yes, working through various agencies throughout my career- we have a very strict process for public comment and for people to come and be involved in one. We're doing review of these larger projects and planning and people are planning buildings and roads. There generally is always a forum for people to come and ask questions and bring up their concerns and bring up their concerns.
Speaker 2:So I know in this busy world that we're all living in, you think, well, how can I have time? But I think to like, pick your battle Absolutely Right. It can get overwhelming. And you know, as a passionate biologist and growing up you know you're like, oh, I want to change all these things and I want to make the world a better place. And then you kind of realize you can't fix all of it. But I feel like if everybody picks what they're passionate about and fights that battle, then cumulatively it can it can have a big impact.
Speaker 2:So I would say, reach out to local government officials that are making these bigger plans, because you have a voice. Yeah, you do have a voice and sometimes we have comment periods on projects that we're doing and there's certain nonprofits that are very vocal but sometimes there's no comments, right. So I think people kind of understanding and reaching out to your local government and figuring out what development's happening and really let them know. But I think community outreach is pretty important and just being involved in your local community. So if you live in a neighborhood that has a fence that animals cannot get through, if animals are crossing the road in your neighborhood, can a raccoon get under your fence, right? Are they going to have to go over your fence? Maybe a salamander can't get through your fence because it's into the ground, right? So kind of these more simple things.
Speaker 1:So it's actually about taking a look around at your own lifestyle in your own sanctuary so to speak to see if you can make it easier for them. Yeah, Okay, yeah, Okay, yeah. I think the first thing that came to my mind was. So I live in a neighborhood, a suburban area, and I have fencing around my backyard and it is a freeway. The fencing is a freeway and there's possums on there and skunks and all kinds of guys moving through yeah, and it's years ago.
Speaker 1:We put ramps on our fence so that the animals could go up and down. I know that's, too, a more of an extreme. Yeah, some people don't want those animals in their yard, but I do, because they eat the snails and all the you know, the things that eat my garden, kind of thing. So there's that balance, but definitely, I mean they are. I think it's a really good point, dana. These animals are in our neighborhoods, these animals are living with us. We may not see them, but they're there, and to be able to give them a little bit easier, yeah, so another thing to maybe to think at. I love that.
Speaker 2:And another thing would be support the local. You know the local open space next to where you live or your. You know whether you're going to Yosemite or these bigger things, but there's a lot of park systems throughout the Bay area. Land agencies they are offering volunteer events. Right, you know, go out and pull a non-native species, right, right, and so there's. There's a lot of volunteer activities that I think people can get involved in. Support land agencies and preserving more open space, and I think specifically here that I'm familiar with in Santa Clara County. You know there's funds and laws that were passed that tax dollars are supporting acquisitions of more properties Excellent. So being involved politically and voting it's a critical time, right, I guess it's a good time to talk about voting.
Speaker 2:That's right, as we're in an important voting year, but there's voting every single year, but just when there's propositions and things on the ballot, so that taxes can go to these agencies that will be acquiring more land or managing these lands, I think that's also supporting them, supporting them, yeah.
Speaker 1:So there's a lot of things that we can all do, and it may not necessarily be helping that mountain lion get across the road. That kind of a thing, that's your guys' job which I love.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but there are all of these things, and on our website we're going to post several websites that people can go to to look for more information one for the agencies that are doing this kind of work there and there's a lot here in the bay area, thankfully but also two other things that you could potentially do. You know way, maybe, where to get monarch butterfly seed. You know milkweed seeds that kind of thing.
Speaker 1:So yeah, we'll post some information up there if you want to get more involved. But I think that's a really good point. You can be involved, pick whatever, yeah, balance in your life, those types of things, but there are. You can go full board or you can do all those beautiful, sweet little things. Yeah, there are things that we can all do.
Speaker 2:There's uh, the cumulative effect absolutely exponential if we all, we all pick our battles. The butterfly effect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:The butterfly effect.
Speaker 1:Yes, awesome, awesome. Thank you so much for your time and your knowledge. We really appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was great talking with you about this and I think we're at the beginning. I think, specifically at least in this region of the San Francisco Bay, there's going to be a huge push in the next decade. Excellent for a lot more of these corridors and studies on this wildlife and ensuring that they have a place to go and that they're coexisting with us, and so I would say great for the people before us that saw the foresight of protecting lands.
Speaker 2:Yes yes, and I'm super grateful to be living, you know, in a place where that's possible and that you know we're a society that values that.
Speaker 1:Yes, agreed. Thank you so much. I loved chatting with Dana and got a better understanding of how important these corridors are, whether for mountain lions or newts, the connection is kind of like a web. You know. They have tunnels and bridges and green belts that connect one thing to the next thing and they ensure safe and thriving passage for animals, insects and then plants as well. We'll have links at the Two Chicks and a Whole website where you can get more information, resources and watch the wonderful video of the coyote and the badger using one of the underpasses here in the San Francisco Bay Area. Thanks for listening, you guys, and take care of each other, thank you.