Exceptional Parents, Extraordinary Challenges
Being a parent is challenging enough - parenting a child with extraordinary challenges (non-neuro typical kiddos) can be overwhelming, debilitating and at times, downright depressing. Angie Shockley and Dave Gold bring their combined 70 years of real world experience - Angie as the founder of young adult transition programs and Certified Shamanic Practitioner; Dave as a successful attorney, business and spiritual mentor and father - to bring you practical, powerful solutions to your biggest parenting challenges Join us each week to discover how to navigate crisis, protect your own health and well-being, and create a family unit that is filled with love, creativity and deep, mutual respect no matter what life brings your way.
Exceptional Parents, Extraordinary Challenges
episode 43: A Father's Leap from Courtroom to Entrepreneurial Dreams
Have you ever stood at the crossroads of professional success and personal fulfillment and wondered which path to take? Dan, a Charlotte attorney, walks us through his transformative experience of aligning career triumphs with his core values and family life. (Daniel Tedrick dlt@dantedricklaw.com)
Our introspective journey uncovers the delicate dance of balancing work with the joy of being present for life's precious moments, revealing the resilience and sacrifices necessary to maintain equilibrium.
This episode is far from your average career advice—it's a candid exploration of how a father's decisions ripple through the lives of his children and the act of courage it takes to carve out a new direction. We share stories about navigating the challenges of long hours and the elusive nature of 'real time off,' and Dan opens up about the leap from legal corridors to the thrilling unknown of entrepreneurship. It's about crafting a life filled with possibility, joy, and connections that withstand the test of distance and time.
Embracing change often means grappling with the fears that hold us back, and we delve into the power that faith and support systems have in propelling us forward. Dan's journey highlights the importance of trusting oneself, the role of synchronicity in guiding us towards uncharted paths, and the affirmation found in making bold, life-altering choices. Ending on a note of gratitude, we express thanks not just for the insights shared but also for the faith that drives us—a force stronger than luck, driving us toward a more meaningful existence. Join us for an episode that will leave you contemplating the possibilities that await when you make space for what truly matters in life.
At Canaan Valley Spa and Wellness Center, our mission is to provide our clients with a serene and rejuvenating experience that promotes wellness of the mind, body, and spirit. We strive to create a welcoming and peaceful environment where our guests can escape from the stresses of daily life and find relaxation and balance.
www.canaanvalleyspawv.com
https//www.livingmindfullyaware.com
Canaan Valley Spa is a true destination space in Davis, West Virginia.
www.canaanvalleyspawv.com
Angie Shockley mindfulangie@gmail.com
http://www.livingmindfullyaware.com
Dave Gold dave@davegold.com
Show Engineered and Produced by: Keith Bishop bishop.keith@gmail.com
Welcome to the Exceptional Parents Extraordinary Challenges podcast reboot. I'm Dave Gold. I'm here with Angie Shockley, who's on the screen there. Hi, Angie.
Speaker 2:Hey Dave, how are you today?
Speaker 1:I'm lovely. Normally I record outside in Chapel Hill, but I'm up in Danville, virginia, at this beautiful Airbnb that Julie and the kids have refurbished, got sunshine, got puppy dogs and got one of my best friends on there as a guest. Today I'm going to kick off, as I sometimes do, and say that Dan is a terrific segue between the two, or maybe connector between the two, podcasts that we've done.
Speaker 1:We had this podcast, loved it, everyone loved it. Fan favorite. We made a pivot to life transitions back to, but we just felt both of us felt drawn both from the terms of people's responses but also from our, in terms of our own inclinations to return to this. And Dan covers both worlds and I'll let him talk a little bit more about that, but I'll start off just telling you what I know that he wants me to tell you about. Dan is an exceptionally successful attorney in Charlotte and he could brag about how much they charge for his time, but he probably won't. It's A lot. Let's just say I hope I never need someone of that caliber.
Speaker 1:And is also in a transition, and that's how we met. Dan is taking a courageous leap of faith for reasons that cover both life transition and also his kids, cover both life transition and also his kids. So, as a friend, as a client and just as an inspiration, I thought it'd be great to get Dan on to talk about what he's doing, why he's doing it, and he listened to the last episode of our podcast and can keep it relevant in that way. All right, dan, other than getting the IRS on you for all the money you make. Did I say anything wrong, trouble or anything?
Speaker 3:No, no, I was wondering who you were talking about there for a second, but I appreciate the introduction and, yeah, excited to chat with you guys today and contribute to whatever I can.
Speaker 1:So maybe you could talk about what's going on in your life that led us to meet, and how you came to that decision and how that's affecting your family.
Speaker 3:Yeah, sure, we came to meet a little while ago because I've been back in big law large law firm life for about a little over five years now. Prior to that, I was a solo practicing lawyer slash entrepreneur, ran a couple of investment companies and came back in to big law firm practice, basically for security reasons. We were looking to transition the business we had sold out, cycled off a fund, and at the time my kids were young, we were filling up college funds and wanted basically to solve a math problem and transition back to large law firm life where I started my career well over 20 years ago, and it was going to be a planned two, three-year reset. I'd been there about six months. Covid hit I'm there five years later, I'm still there and just retook, took stock of where my life was, what I valued in life and what I was working towards, and the two weren't really aligned anymore.
Speaker 3:I had somehow come up with in my own head this rule of okay, I've got to solve this financial math problem and then everything will be okay. And I didn't like that rule and I was the one who made it, and so I decided that I could be the one to change it, and so I explored various things Okay, do I leap in-house? Do I go into another law firm, all these, let's step from a small box into a slightly larger box. And fortunately I didn't spend too much time there, and so I started exploring the idea of, okay, we're're gonna make a big leap of faith here and do a complete reboot. That's that's where, when I called you, dave reached out and we started.
Speaker 3:We started working together and since that time, things have have really crystallized into it's time to let go of, uh, of the safety net that my current practice provides, which is fine. There's no problem with me staying there in the abstract, but for me personally, it's a. Again, what I value in life is not aligned with what I'm doing. It's the fulfillment I get is achieved completely outside of the workplace, and I'm reevaluating why that needs to be, and, in fact, the conclusion I came to is that doesn't need to be. So let's start getting out while the getting's still around to be had.
Speaker 1:And I know family is one of the things right away. That's obviously important. You don't need to brag. You don't brag about it. It's just clear what your priorities are. There's a story you told me about your son that really touched me and I thought I wanted to share with everyone here too several months ago.
Speaker 3:We're in the car for an extended period and I think we were driving back from Florida at the time I live in Charlotte, north Carolina, pretty long drive and we started talking and we're asking my then 13 year old son he's about to enter high school next year what do you want to study, what do you want to do, what do you want to be? And he gives us a standard 13 year old response of I don't know. And so we would pick out it a little bit and somehow we transitioned over to his brother. He's 11 years old, in fifth grade, and I asked the same question to my younger son and he's a much different kid and he was ready with two or three different answers. Anywhere from engineer to archaeologist he's got a lot of different things he wants to pursue.
Speaker 3:And the older one pipes back up and says no, you're not going to do any of that. You're going to go to school, you're going to work really hard, you're going to find a job and be really good at it and hate what you do, just like dad. And damn if he wasn't right. Yeah, that kind of crystallized things. And damn if he wasn't right. Yeah, that kind of crystallized things. I was like okay, if this is what I'm modeling for my kids, that you work hard despite the fact that you get no fulfillment out of it, that's what you have to do to provide the lifestyle and, whatever it is, that's what I'm showing them is the purpose of life and the values that we should assign to everything. That's just not the case, and from there I think I may have called Dave the next day. It was a good call. I can tell you that, yeah, that's nothing like the out of the mouths of babes or cantankerous teenagers. Pick whichever you want, but both of them come from a place of honesty and he nailed it.
Speaker 1:How does this? I just wonder what your thoughts are in terms of what you see every day. Were you living, stepping into your highest, of most to do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I one of the so much of what you said really resonated just in the work that I do and for me personally. But but one of the things you said really resonated just in the work that I do and for me personally, but one of the things you said when you were talking about solving the math problem, and it was that if I can just solve this math problem, if I can just fill up these accounts, if I can just do this, then everything will be OK. In not really living their lives in a present way, but putting things on hold or kind of allowing that dissonance that you were experiencing between your values and your daily life, pushing it to the side because there's a focus on something else and it feels like that has to get solved, finished, completed, done before you can actually allow those feelings to come through. And yeah, what a great way for the universe to slap you around just a little bit and go that may not be, that may not be how you want to do this, that may not be how you want to go forward. And so that really, that really strikes me.
Speaker 2:I've recently and I'm not going to be able to quote the title of this poem, but in a class I was teaching, there was a line in a poem that said I hope that you inhabit your life, and that really struck me and I've used that poem many times, but it was the first time that line really struck me I hope that you inhabit your life, and I think that's what you're talking about is really inhabiting your life, not just being present in it, but inhabiting your life so that it's not putting something on hold, Even in your daily life.
Speaker 2:Okay, let me go spend 8, 9, 10, 12 hours doing something I despise, so that I can go do something that brings me happiness and joy and fulfillment. There's a way to do both of those at the same time and still solve that math problem in a way that works for everybody. What you're doing is very courageous and I don't even know what direction you're going. As our listeners know, Dave and I surprise each other with guests, and so I don't even know your whole story. But I will tell you. It's very courageous of you to be where you're at and I appreciate hearing that. That version.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm going to follow up in terms of how your children since this is a parenting podcast allegedly how your kids came into this equation and how they come into it, just how the different balancing that you're doing right now, different considerations that sometimes seem like they're in conflict.
Speaker 3:Sure, right now, obviously, I have two boys. They're 14 and 11, and they're both very active and are into sports, extracurriculars, all that sort of stuff, and I have a real desire to be able to one, be an active participant in their lives and what they do. But, more to the point, they're because of their schedules. There's not a whole lot of time where we can just spend together as a family, have one-on-one time where I get to be able to interact with my kids one-on-one, be able to sit down and talk with them as they've gotten older. We made a big point when they were younger we had family dinners. Now somebody's got soccer practice, somebody's in baseball, somebody is a basketball, whatever, and there's just.
Speaker 3:I see them growing up so fast. I see time moving at an accelerated pace and I want to have the opportunity to, when they have a half day or a free Saturday afternoon or whatever it is, I want to be able to meet them there when they have the time and say, okay, we're going to go for a bike ride, we're going to go on a hike, we're going to go sit and watch a ball game together, whatever, and with with the commitments of what I'm doing now, not only in. Do I not have the control of my own time to be able to confidently say yes, it has to be a qualified sure. If I don't have X, y or Z going on, then I'll be there, which creates a little uncertainty on their part. Is dad going to show up, is he not?
Speaker 3:But also, being on the billable hour clock with such rigor and that is the metric by which you live and die when I do have time, it's quantified in a okay, I am doing this and then I'll have to make it up with that. There is no, and I think my law firm is about as well run as they come in that world. I've got nothing bad to say about it. It just it is what it is. And, like all firms of that size, there is no vacation policy. You can take as much as you want. I think that speaks volumes. They don't bother to have one because they know you can't use it.
Speaker 3:There is no real time off, it's just make it up later. Right, there is no real time off, it's just make it up later, and that's not how I want to measure my life, let alone my daily hours, and have that infect the rest and infect is a tough word, but that's how it works out for me. I'm not able to separate it. It is.
Speaker 2:I'm giving up something to be with my family giving up something to be with my family, and that creates a level of guilt, no matter how you look at it. So you're stuck in this guilt situation and guilt might not be the right word, but it's not your time, no matter what. That's what I feel. When you talk about it, it's like all you're doing is it's a shell game. You're just moving your time underneath one shell to another shell, to another position, and it's not really your time, no matter how you look at it. And yeah, if you're in a well-run organization which you obviously are you've said that you are it's not about the organization. It's about the choice that you're making as a professional and as a father, and I think for a lot of parents, that's a choice that they have to face every day. That's a choice I've always had to face. I quit a job when my kids were teenagers for that same reason. Other reasons, there's always a plethora of reasons. One of the main things that occurred to me is I'm traveling all over the country taking care of everybody else's teenagers and my teenagers at home, wondering where I am, and so I get that on a personal level that it really is a choice and there's always a give and take. I know that energetically.
Speaker 2:When we create space in our lives, that's when things come in. When people talk about manifesting or creating or whatever it is creating the life that you want, but we have to create space in order for that to happen. And right now, as you talk, you can just feel how stuffed your life is. There's really no space for anything, and I would venture to say that most of the people who are listening to this podcast can 100% identify with that that there's just no space for anything else. And so when I say you're courageous for doing what you're doing, I mean it. It's to take the leap and create space in your life so that you can shift and you can change where your time is and you're not playing the shell game anymore. That is very courageous because there's always a giving up right, there's always a giving up something in order to get something else to come in, just like you're talking about your time. If you take time away from work in order to go spend it with your family and do things that bring you joy, then at some point you have to take time away from your family to go make up the time that you missed from work. So there's always a give and take in life. There's a give and take energetically, but when we focus on the things that bring us joy, the things that really help us feel like we have purpose and meaning in our lives, and we take all of the kind of the other stuff out of that equation for a little bit, what I have found, what I believe, is that space becomes pretty sacred and what comes into it then will bring us everything that we've pushed to the side the financial stability and gains and all of those kinds of things, the time feeling like we have the time Time is.
Speaker 2:We created the concept of linear time right, Time is really not linear, but boy did we create it that way. And then we try to force ourselves to live in that linear time situation. And it's not. Time is circular. And so when you step out of time like an arrow where you're going one direction and that's it, you were talking about solving the equation, like your arrow was pointed at that solution, solving that problem, right, and now what you've done is you've stepped out of that time as an arrow and your time has become much more flexible.
Speaker 2:The other thing that happens when we do that is, instead of going toward probability, we're going towards possibility. We're opening up those opportunities so that we so much more as possible, when we step out of that time as an arrow continuum that we create, that's not real and we still have responsibilities. You're still an attorney. You're still going to have responsibilities. There are still going to be times where you have to make a tough choice work, family. Those things are going to happen. They happen for all of us. During this podcast, I denied a call from my husband because I'm recording this podcast. Right, it happens. It happens every day, but it's on a much different scale, and it creates the opportunity for you to be healthier as a human, as a professional, as a father in your family unit and that's a big thing and for your kids to be the age that they are right now and for you to be making this choice. It's pretty awesome.
Speaker 3:Can I ask what your plans are? What are your dreams? What are the things you're thinking about? Certainly, yeah. This first of all stepping out into the void here is. It's not the first time I've done it.
Speaker 3:I started my career working for law firms and got about six years in and did the same thing I'm doing now, which is step away with. I am not going to another single job there has been. I've always had an entrepreneurial spirit. So there's several different companies I'm involved with, one of which I'll step out and I'll be head of legal for that tech startup. That's by no means a full-time job. It looks a lot more business-y than legal.
Speaker 3:And there are some other kind of family office type investment things that I'm involved with that need more time and attention. And, along the way doing what I do, there are several former clients, existing clients, that have branched off and left the big institutional investor or whoever, and just setting up, and these are in different stages of development. Some are just conversations over a dinner. Some of them are a little more concrete Okay, when you get out, we're going to start this up within a couple months, but it's going to be a conglomeration of things and they're all based If they had a common theme. It's all around service One's in the health sector, one's in the child sector and some of this I'm going to get paid. My family and the time that I get to spend with them gets set as the default priority, and this stuff all works in around that, whereas in the existing paradigm it's the opposite.
Speaker 3:it's the opposite, and so I think we can get back to there and get to a place where you know I'm not ready to retire. This isn't a go pull out the carpet slippers and wait till grandkids come along. By no means there. So it does take somewhat of a leap of faith, because I can't tell you what I'm going to be doing a year from now. I can give you a general idea of some likely candidates, but there isn't a concrete plan.
Speaker 2:I think that's okay. I think that's really okay. It's going to be because you're doing it, you're stepping out, and obviously there's some fear around that, but there's also this feeling of like just creative excitement around it when you talk about it, like the things that you love, obviously some of that stuff you're pretty passionate about, and so you're coming from that place of passion, not that place of fear or any of those kinds of things. So, yeah, that's pretty exciting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dan, I wanted to speak to something and again, my computer was just too hot out there, so I apologize. But once you got me out of the way, you got into the really good conversations. One of the and everyone's facing this in some form or another, and it's really pronounced because you're making this leap, because you're so successful and you're heading into something that seems like a void is that it's going to your financial priorities of having your family live at a certain level versus the time. It's the same juggle you had before Billable hour. It's soccer game, right, it's the same thing. It's how you're coming to grips or just how you're thinking about. Okay, my mom may not be able to do all the things that they did now, and I still want to be a good dad.
Speaker 3:Sure to be a good dad, sure, and that comes with a little bit of preparation and a realization that the sort of financial safety nets that I was trying to create by doing what I'm doing yeah, that was, that was the end, all be all, and I guess I I've realized that some of these things that we have, some of these things that we have, the financial buckets that I've tried to fill up over the years, and what the hell are they for? It's like the this hoard not that there's a giant hoard of money out there, but these safety nets that I put in place for retirement, college, all that sort of stuff. There is a bit of a safety net there that I was so jealously guarding and trying to build. Worst case scenario if I have to tap into that. Worst case scenario if we can't go on the big vacation. Worst case scenario if we have to downsize the house. Playing that tape out and realizing that worst case scenario is not that bad, whereas the definite that track that I'm on is not fulfilling In some sense.
Speaker 3:Staying where I'm at and continuing to fill up these financial buckets is guaranteeing an outcome that I don't want, whereas making a leap of faith yeah, there might be some choices down the road where we don't aren't able to get the new car when it's time to get a new car, or go on a big old vacation when it's time to, when we have some time to do that, but that's. The dollar figure attached to those things is not where the value lies. And some of the best memories I have of my kids is when I was still working for myself. I was there, they were in Cub Scouts and I was able to be their Cub Scout leader because I could pick when and where I spent my time. And one of the best memories they have are these little camping trips we took when they were 10 and 7 years old, or I guess they were younger than that Nine and six was probably when that kind of started to wane.
Speaker 3:But those costs nothing yeah, a little barrier to entry, buying the tent and the gas to get up there. But contrast that with getting on an airplane and flying somewhere and spending all this money to go have an experience. It's not taking anything away from those trips. They're great. But for forming relationships and bonding I don't think again. The worst, what I gin up is my worst case scenario not being able to go on some mythical expensive trip that we haven't even planned yet, versus okay, kids, we're going up to the mountains and pitch and attempt. Worst case scenario is not that bad.
Speaker 1:One of the interesting things too, here back over to Angie in a second from our conversations is just the leap of faith goes everywhere, because it's like we were talking about private schools. They're in great private schools right now. They might have to go to a public school and at some point he said to me you're confident that's going to be the perfect place for you. You're not putting them out on the street beg for nickels. There's just a way there. That leap of faith just engenders other sub-leaps of faith so that you can go with all these other these control, these other things. We think my kids are the best private school in Charlotte. They're going to keep going to the best private school in Charlotte.
Speaker 3:If that needs to happen, we'll find a way to make it happen. Big boy's going to public high school next year and we're fortunate enough, because of some choices we made along the way, that our home school is great and you know, if he gets there and has a bad experience, we pull the plug and put him somewhere else. But that's a worry for another day and there are trade-off, sacrifices, whatever in other areas that I don't need to solve that problem right now.
Speaker 2:No, nor do you need to focus on that. We're going to get more of what we focus on. So focusing on the inhabiting your life right now, I think, is really important, and I don't know how much you know about what I do. What Dave's talked to you about me, if anything, but part of what I do in my world, my professional world is.
Speaker 2:I work with young adults in a residential setting and I can tell you that if I had the opportunity to wave the magic wand over a lot of my young adults, what I would change is the level of relationship they have with their parents. And none of the parents that I work with are bad parents. They're not. They're great parents. They've done the absolute best they could do with what they had made, the best decisions they could make in the moment they were in. So I don't want to say that because my parents didn't spend time with the young adults I work with. That's why they have challenges. That's not the case. But what I will say is that, for whatever reason sometimes it's financial Sometimes I've had young adults in treatment programs and parents have had to do whatever to keep them in treatment programs. But no matter what the scenario has been. What has suffered has been that attachment piece, that relationship piece between parent and kid, that has suffered, especially in that 13 to 18 age group which you're stepping into right now.
Speaker 2:Right, and one of the things that I think is important to highlight about all of this is that you're making a choice to be more present with your kids, as they're really entering some crucial phases of their life, and the fact that your real wake up call came through the mouth of your 11 year old that that really says a lot about how the universe is lining up to support you on this journey, for sure, and so I think that's an important piece of all this. You're right, there's nothing wrong with great, big, happy, fancy, fun vacations. There's nothing wrong with that. But at the end of the day, what's the relationship like, and that relationship that you have with your kids, with your wife and your family? I mean, to me, I think that's one of the most important things for you to focus on. I will ask you this question when you think about that, think about what this is going to be like going forward, what are the things you get most excited about when you think about that connection with your family, being able to be impulsive?
Speaker 3:Saying you guys are first and okay, we've got some time here, you've got next Monday off or whatever. Let's get in the car and go do X or C. We have extended family all over the place and we're the only ones in Charlotte so we don't get to see them that much anymore. When my sister has three kids who are all a little uh, she's younger than I am, but her kids start just a year after. Her youngest is a year older than my oldest and they've grown up together and getting to be able to foster those relationships and say, okay, we need to get out and go here, go down to graduations and birthday parties and all that sort of stuff is really over the last few years I haven't been able to do that as much.
Speaker 3:So kind of re-engage with that. Um, kids are fortunate enough they still have all four grandparents and yeah, how much time is there to keep relationships and developed everybody's healthy now, nobody's guaranteed tomorrow, and so expand on that. And then I guess another thing I'm excited about is to share with them this journey of recreation. If there is something you find unsatisfactory with your life, professionally or whatever you can have the courage to change and go pursue your passions, go pursue whatever it is you want. Just because you start out here doesn't mean that's where you end up.
Speaker 2:Life is not that linear time scale that you're talking about.
Speaker 3:Time is an arrow, yeah, and that our efforts need to be focused on making a life rather than making a living. I love that. Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1:Do what you want, the money will follow and there will be enough. Yeah, that's how it's always been for us. One of the things I think that's occurred to me that you shared with me, that I think would be great because you talk about the expectations that are placed, because I think about Angie and my own daughter has been quite a challenge. You're taking a really dramatic step, but these are just metaphors for every decision we're making as parents. Right, dramatic step, but these are just. These are just metaphors for every decision we're making as parents. Right, it might not be as pronounced as that, but we are making choices constantly. We're just constantly making choices and I and I'm waiting to share, like when you were going through your father, the roles were reversed. When you're now the son going to your father and saying, hey dad, I know how proud you are that I created this, but guess what? Talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 3:Sure, sure, there was yeah, every father wants to please his son, or every son wants to please the father. And you know when it was a big decision for me to come back into private practice of all. And I told him I was doing that and he was fairly excited Okay, you're going to, you're going to go get a regular paycheck again. He was worried about me restarting, restarting another investment fund from scratch, and he's risk averse. He's, he's of the, he's of the greatest generation who started. He worked one job. His entire life started on day one, ended on year 40, whatever, and and hung it up and that was it.
Speaker 3:And I was really concerned about how he was going to view this as you're, you're putting your family at risk, you're're all that sort of stuff. And in my discussions with him, one gosh, I put that off. I did not want to have that conversation and I tiptoed into it. I even made a specific effort to fly down there solo and spend a weekend with my mom and dad and break the news to them, and I tiptoed around it. It was a prep session, it wasn't the actual conversation, and so when I finally told him one, he was like yeah, figured this was coming.
Speaker 3:And two, he just wants me to be happy, and that's all I want for my sons is find something that gives you fulfillment. We throw happiness around all the time and I'm not sure how we define that. Nor do I have any illusions that if, when I walk out of the office tower, I'm immediately going into a meadow with flowers, that's where I'm going to live. But the things that I, the disappointment that I feared would come in return when I told him I was leaving a very secure environment and a steady income, all the stuff that I'm scared about giving up those were fears that I created. Those were not vectors for disappointment on his end.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, this is. You're a big boy and I wish you all the best, if there's yeah, if there's anything I can do to help. That's a great parent line. The roles are reversed. I'll certainly look creative for guidance and counsel and stability. That's a great parent line. And you know that that was a narrative that completely existed solely between my ears and nowhere else. It was another self-created barrier that I made this rule. Why is it a rule? Time to change.
Speaker 2:When you talk about fears, that's something I'd like to get a little bit more information on, especially for folks who are listening to this podcast, who are stepping into a big life transition. Folks who are listening to this podcast, who are stepping into a big life transition what are the fears that you still have, if you still have any? What were the biggest fears that you had to face? And then, how did you step through those fears? Because obviously they're not holding you back, so how were you able to let go of those fears?
Speaker 3:to let go of those fears. Yeah, for me, fear that we have in general today and that was specific to me in this decision making process is rarely anything I can specifically describe. I can tell you, yeah, it's fear of financial insecurity or fear of perception of others, but it's just this general, amorphous fear of the unknown and failure. I don't know how this is going to work out. Therefore, it is to be feared. Or I don't know where my next paycheck is coming from. Therefore, there won't be one. And the answer to that and the method to walk through that to get to the other side not that I'm not at the other side yet I'm resolved in the decision for this career, change this path, but I don't know how it will work out and there still is some fear there.
Speaker 3:But I don't know how it will work out and there still is some fear there. But the answer to get through it and be excited about it is faith. Everything I have done in my life to date has led me to right here, right now, and there is nothing I would change about right here, right now. I've been, there's been something, somebody, something. I'm not a religious person, but I'm fairly spiritual and I recognize that there has been a force looking out for me this entire time.
Speaker 3:Thank goodness, I have been blessed with the family that I have and the position that I'm in now, where I do have choices. And if I'd have gotten what I deserved, it's a scary thought and basically it's. God didn't bring me this far to drop me on my head, and I can't tell you what tomorrow will be staying at the job anything, any more than I can tell you what tomorrow will be staying at the job anymore than I can tell you what tomorrow will be leaving the job, it's the faith that if I do what is put in front of me on a daily basis that to date, everything has worked out just fine and it will continue to do so, having that faith built on experience. And it will continue to do so, having that faith built on experience.
Speaker 1:Right, I want to pick up on that because that's something that you've been just such a terrific I don't know exemplar or whatever is that when Andrew was talking about leaving space and having things fill up the void. But that was something that we did. You were already doing it. We made it more intentional, If you can speak, to just how you left space and how synchronicities and grace or whatever just have continued to come in since you decided you were going to do what you're going to do.
Speaker 3:Sure it's. Getting out of the kind of this is what I'm meant to do. So I'm going to go into the office every day, put my head down, come home and getting out of that to recognize, okay, there is something more we're going to make, making the decision to make this transition, to start looking for what are the next opportunities I think there is a vast array of possibilities out there for everyone that if we open our eyes just a little bit and I get quiet in the mornings and ask, okay, show me what's out there, show me, put, put the idea in my head of who can I reach out today, who can I interact with today, and seeing, I guess I need to get concrete. That's what you, that's what you're looking for, dave anyway, you want to answer.
Speaker 1:I don't know that.
Speaker 3:You've got space and the space has been filled with grace yeah, and there there are people that I picked up the phone and called and had intentional conversations with about okay, here's what I'm doing, letting them know that I'm making it, I'm making this transition. Um, here's what I want to do going forward. That folks I wouldn't have reached out to before and I'm amazed at what I get back Sometimes. It's oh, that's wonderful. I'd never do that, but you should call John and talk to him a little bit.
Speaker 3:Or I'm having conversations. We recently took one of these vacations that may be off the table because, worst case scenario, we can't afford them anymore, but there was a guy on that trip who I met and bonded with. It was a group of folks from all over the country and he happened to live a half a mile from me. I'd never met him before. We knew a hundred of the same people and he's recently sold his company and looking to do some things where I have a skill set in and some interest in, and we're meeting later this week to see where the overlap lies Getting more involved with being present and showing up in these aspects of my life with other, being focused on relationships and really being inquisitive with other people Instead of just having my head down. I go into the office, I come home, I think about what I still have left to do and, like you said, creating space and being intentional about creating that space has opened up a number of different possibilities and I think that I have faith that will continue to happen.
Speaker 1:My experience with you I'll come back to Andy in a second is that you got through. It required a certain amount of will and fortitude and discipline to break through the initial inertia of fear. That's where you summoned it, and then after that there was another momentum that took over and started to guide you that you could relax into Absolutely.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, absolutely. It's a process that, once I started it, it did take on a life of its own, and that's what gives me the faith that everything is going to work out is that once my eyes were open to okay, we've got to figure out how life post law firm works I started seeing everything else that is out there instead of just being focused on the daily rat race Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that faith piece that I agree with you. I think that I could never do the things that I do in my world if I didn't have faith and trust in God, in spirit and universe, whatever language someone chooses to put on it, that power that is greater than we are. And I also know that we are vibrating creatures and the frequency at which we vibrate is going to attract more in. And, dave, you talk about everything, the synchronicities and the grace that is happening in this journey and it's so very true. When you do open up and create space and get curious and see what, you take those blinders off, talk about that rat race, the rat race, blinders of being in that. Take those blinders off to talk about that rat race, the rat race, blinders of being in that, the drudge of daily life, and when they come off and you see what else is out there and including the fears, including the things that would be the things that would make you pause in making this kind of a decision in your life, we have to see all of that and then having faith that it's going to work out, just like you're talking about your son in high school, and you'll solve that problem if you come to it, not when, but if that comes up, then there's a way to solve it, and having faith In the 12-step model. There's the saying let go let God, and I believe that applies to every part of life Let go let God. When we try to control everything, then that's when we end up being back in those blinders again, not being able to see all the opportunities that surround us. And so it's obvious to me that you've taken those blinders off and you do see so much opportunity, and that doesn't mean that every day is beautiful. Like you said, you're not going to walk out of the law firm and go live in a field of daisies. You're going to still have life. You're still going to have choices to make. You're still going to have hard things happen, and that's okay, because how you choose to navigate those things is what gives you the quality of life, and the quality of life is what gives you the quality of family. I have a lot of admiration for you, for the courage it's taking to make this decision, and I think this is a great example. You talk about being an example to your family. By coming on and talking with us on this podcast, you get to be an example for a lot of people who are facing the same dilemma and not sure, and their fears are too big right now, but they don't have to always be that big, they can be overcome.
Speaker 2:I had huge fears when I walked away from a job and my husband looked at me and said it's money, we'll make more tomorrow. And that was a huge moment for me. I was like, oh yeah, okay, all right, I can 10 bar, I can shovel poop out of barns, which I do, I just it was like in that moment, all of a sudden, it was like, oh, I don't have to do this job to make this paycheck. I can do anything to make money tomorrow. And no, certainly wasn't the same money, but it's worked out. It's been 16 years, almost 17 years, and I've had my own business all that time, multiple businesses.
Speaker 2:At this point, it was a huge leap of faith. There was a lot of let go, let God, and without having that faith, I couldn't have done it. I couldn't continue on this journey. So I think that's really important. I want to highlight that for our listeners.
Speaker 2:There is a way to have faith and if you're not a religious person, that's okay. Faith is not about religion. Faith is about trust, and you trust in yourself and you trust in the universe to have your back, or you trust in God to have your back and to know that your journey is perfect and that it's going to work out in the best way possible, the highest good for all, whatever that's going to be. And so when you can surrender to that, then you can let go of all those little fears. And I can tell you that, just in the way that you're talking, you have surrendered to that in a lot of ways in your life. Surrendered to this is the journey and this is going to be for my highest good and the highest good for all you know, even though you don't know exactly what that's going to be yet. So it's pretty awesome to see that I want to just.
Speaker 3:Yeah, just picking up on what you said there, angie. I think it's come through in the discussion, but I wanted to highlight it is none of this is me doing something alone. There has been part of overcoming the fear of doing it is sharing it with we've talked about my father, but sharing it with friends, bouncing ideas off of them, sharing it with a network of individuals that I value their opinion, I'm close with them and, most importantly, bringing in my wife. That was another scary thing. How do I get over this hump with her? Because obviously she's tremendously affected by the decisions that we make and they are decisions that we make.
Speaker 3:This is not my decision and they are decisions that we make. This is not my decision. And approaching it in that way bringing in, allowing really is it's true, because I have the support of the ones I love in making this transition and getting over the fear of talking about it. To begin with, opened up, love and support, trusted, it was there. But until you open up and become vulnerable and say this is what I want to do, because I'm not really happy or I don't have access to it, nobody knows what I'm scared about unless I tell them.
Speaker 2:True, very true. I have a question for you and we're coming up on the end, so maybe this is a great question.
Speaker 1:You still have a hard stop at the bottom of the hour.
Speaker 3:Dan.
Speaker 2:I know I told you to be off now. Yeah, yeah, but I'm the one who has to make that call, so I can wait a little bit. My question is this what's the reaction of your boys?
Speaker 3:oh, they don't know yet then we have to have a part two I have to know, I have to know what happens.
Speaker 1:there's more than there's so many parts that we get to that I that him on. I want to make a couple of finer points here, because I get to get the last word sometimes. And what I've noticed. Can I be proud of you? I'm just so glad to be your friend, I really am. Well, thank you. No, I just have admiration and affection for you, as you well know. But two things that you said, and one about the faith is that it's a faith that proves itself as you leave space for the faith to be proved. In other words, it was a faith, but now, more and more, you're getting confirmation, so you have experience to go with the faith, and that's really just such a big part of the process. When you're from the outside looking in, it seems enormous. And the other is that you've chosen to surround yourself with people that aren't. What the hell are you thinking?
Speaker 1:Are you crazy. Do you know what the rate of inflation is?
Speaker 3:You've surrounded yourself.
Speaker 1:I think when you're in this kind of vulnerable situation, you should be able to choose wisely the counsel that you're going to keep. So, anyway, we have reached the end there. I know you had a hard stop but, Angie, again thank you for having the faith in me that I bring these people on and they just deliver.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was awesome. That was awesome.
Speaker 1:Good job.
Speaker 2:Dave.
Speaker 1:Dan, it was great. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was an absolute pleasure to meet you and I certainly wish you all the best. I don't think I need to wish you luck, because I think you're moving on something bigger than luck. You're moving on faith.
Speaker 3:So keep on keeping on thank you guys, and yeah, that's I'm glad we ended with with faith and that's because that's what all this is and it goes beyond hope. Faith is hope with the track record and if you look back, he's what all this is and it goes beyond hope. Faith is hope with the track record.
Speaker 1:And if you look, back you get to see that.
Speaker 3:That's the coffee mug, the T-shirt.
Speaker 1:That's it, dan and I. If things don't whatever, we may just go into the coffee mug and get a T-shirt and a sticker.
Speaker 2:Thanks so much Dan.
Speaker 3:Thank you, angie, pleasure to meet you.
