United SHE Stands
Unveiling Power and Morality in "Scandal": A Deep Dive into Political Drama's Allure and Influence
In episode 77, we dissect the magnetic series "Scandal," and delve into the intoxicating effects of power on the likes of Olivia Pope and her compatriots. This episode peels back the layers of morality in politics, revealing the complexities that shape our heroes and villains alike.
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This episode was edited by Kevin Tanner. Learn more about him and his services here:
- Website: https://www.kevwyxin.com/
- Instagram: @kevwyxin
If you purchase from any links to resources or products, the show may make a small commission.
In episode 77, we dissect the magnetic series "Scandal," and delve into the intoxicating effects of power on the likes of Olivia Pope and her compatriots. This episode peels back the layers of morality in politics, revealing the complexities that shape our heroes and villains alike.
Connect with USS: United SHE Stands Instagram
This episode was edited by Kevin Tanner. Learn more about him and his services here:
- Website: https://www.kevwyxin.com/
- Instagram: @kevwyxin
If you purchase from any links to resources or products, the show may make a small commission.
Yeah, it's absolute. Power corrupts absolutely.
Sara:Wow, yep, that is absolutely what the message of the show is Got it.
Ashley:Welcome back to the United she Stands podcast, the show that brings kindness and women into politics.
Sara:I'm Ashley and I'm Sarah and we're two women from Ohio who are here to become more educated about American politics and build a community so we can all get involved and make an impact together, we hope we'll inspire and empower you along the way.
Sara:Hello you wonderful humans, and thanks for being here today for another episode of the United she Stands podcast. Today, ash and I are going to discuss and debrief Scandal, which is a fictional political show that we're both obsessed with. But here's your official spoiler alert If you plan on watching Scandal and do not want to hear any spoilers I can't believe I'm about to say this, but please don't listen. But if you're interested to hear what we have to say about the show, please continue on.
Ashley:Fun stuff, not our normal. Not our normal, this is going to be fun.
Sara:I know it's going to be really fun. I hope some of our listeners have either watched the show or at least heard of it, so hopefully we have some people that can relate. But what are we? What are we drinking tonight?
Ashley:All right. So I'm drinking a snow cannon. It's a session IPA by Noctera Brewing. Pretty sure was left in my fridge by Maggie and Caitlin. That feels right.
Sara:That feels right. I still have not been to the actual brewery. Oh, we should change that. Yeah, I agree, I am drinking Hydra Hero. It's from Revolution Brewery, which I believe is a brewery out of Chicago, because my friend, brian Baker and Claire Baker got me this beer from, I think, the Chicago area. So it's good stuff. It's good stuff, nice. So, basically, the format of this episode we just have some reflection questions that we're just going to discuss. So, ash, do you want to kick us off?
Ashley:reflection questions that we're just going to discuss.
Ashley:So, ash, do you want to kick us off? Sure, let's talk first about Olivia Pope. Let's talk about her journey and how she evolved as she gained more and more power. Do you want to start, sarah? Do you want me to start? Oh, you start, go ahead.
Ashley:Okay, I feel like I have like one sentence and we could dive into that sentence, but what comes to my head is just like power corrupts, yep, and I feel like that's just gonna be, like like later there's a question that I'm like feeling I'm gonna answer the same way. Um, but like that's really. I feel like the story of olivia pope. Like you see her first of all in the beginning of this show, you are just like what a fucking badass, right. I mean, you're obsessed with her, like I was obsessed with her. I'm like I want to be a little bit of pope when I grow up. Yep, and then like gets more gray and more gray and eventually black, and I think that's like a big thing, for all the characters in this show is right. Like things aren't black and white. There's always a gray, but then it goes most of, I'll say a lot of the characters get pulled into, like the black even so that happens to her and I think it all comes back to like just power corrupts yeah, I totally agree and it's.
Sara:It's funny that you just said you think a lot of the characters get pulled into the black, because I like I feel like this was one of the first series that I have watched that I didn't love one character the entire time. You know what I mean. Like there was always, like I definitely have my favorites and people that you know were mostly good throughout, but I felt like everyone, like there was just that one, maybe handful of moments.
Ashley:They all at some point make like a bad decision.
Sara:Yes, and you're like no, like please, I'm begging you. Yes, and yeah, that was absolutely my relationship with Olivia Pope. I adored her from like three minutes in the first episode. I'm like, oh my goodness, this is amazing and I was just immediately a huge fan. But then I really got like infested in the show. So when she started to fall into the gray and the black and just doing some really terrible things, I just felt I literally felt so much like so many actual feelings, you know what I mean Like this show made me feel so much, so many actual feelings, you know what I mean. Like this show made me feel so much. I was so like disappointed. I was so, um, I don't know, I was like, oh my gosh, no one's ever like really good and I don't know.
Ashley:It just really made me feel some type of way yeah, and I think it's so interesting because, like you know, I'm a big reader and whenever you have, whenever an author or in this case, shonda rhimes you write the writers of the stories whenever they can, like, make you love a character and then hate a character, and also opposite, right, when you start out and you hate a character and then you're like, okay, you feel either you feel bad for that character later or like you love them. You're like, oh shit, like that's, like that's a great character storyline, because that's like I don't know. I just feel like I'm always so stunned whenever shows or books can make you do that, because I'm like, yeah, damn, like the character development is just so deep. Um, because that's real life too. Yeah, yeah, it really is. Yeah, because, yeah, I mean we're gonna talk about cyrus being here in a second, but I will say there's two characters that I genuinely, throughout the whole series, mostly didn't like, and that is Cyrus Bean and Fitz.
Sara:Okay, totally agree with Cyrus. I think I told you when I was watching the show like I would text Ashley updates because she was the one who told me to watch the show. I wish I disliked Fitz the entire time, but I fell for his charm.
Ashley:Well, I'll say this I feel like I disliked him the whole time, but I don't know for sure if I. I watched this for the first time so long ago. Yeah, I've re-watched the show and he just comes off as a whiny bitch to me the whole time. You are a privileged white man, you are the fucking president of the united states and all you do is whine about your scenarios all the time so I think that's why, like on a rewatch, I think you would have zero like like for him.
Ashley:Okay, that's fair, but I don't think he's a bad guy. I actually think he's one of the best um characters in terms of like character like his integrity. Yeah, he's actually probably one of the best characters. He's like the only one who doesn't really do anything too horrible. So yeah, but he's just a whiny privileged man.
Sara:I don't know how else to say it. I mean, that's just an absolute fact, yes, okay, so we kind of talked about Cyrus, but let's dive into him a little more and his unhealthy addiction to power. This man is so so, so, so, so severely messed up, like, oh my, he has done some terrible things. He has gotten so many people killed close to him. His husband, oh my God, like that was, I feel like I still I probably finished this series in like November-ish, and it's April now and I really don't think I have recovered from Cyrus's husband. I forget his name, james maybe. Yeah, james, yeah, james. I have not recovered from that.
Sara:That was such a oh my God. So Cyrus is and like I would want to like him. I would like because he would, you know, have an ulterior motive, but he would start out, you know, have an ulterior motive, but he would start out, you know, approaching a situation with like grace and empathy. But then the next scene you see what he's like, you know plotting behind the scenes, and you're like, oh my, like Cyrus, just this one time can you be a good, genuine human? And oh my God, he is just the most fascinating character.
Ashley:I think, yeah, I think he is just the most fascinating character, I think yeah, I think he's probably the most complex character in the series and yeah, um, back to like the whole, like hating a character and feeling bad for them. That's him in my book. Never once did I like him. I never once like liked him, but there were definitely seasons of that show where I felt bad for him. Yeah you know, and it's like how can you feel bad?
Sara:for this guy who's horrible.
Ashley:But like it's just such good, like the script is so good, his acting is so good that you do like you feel bad for this horrible human because he's a horrible human being.
Sara:Yes, exactly, and I really him and Olivia had a really unique relationship because he was her law professor or something right. Yeah, I forget how that started, like how they knew each other, something like that. I think it was something to do, at least when Olivia was in law school, and it almost felt like he was kind of like a fatherly figure to her, yeah, and so I always had hope, like throughout the seasons, that whenever he had these interactions with Olivia or you know know, teaming up with Olivia, or maybe you know, behind the scenes not teaming up with her, I just always had faith that he was going to do the right thing for Olivia because of their relationship, but it just like no, I mean no, it just never ended up that way. But then Olivia became the same way she became because she was I feel like she was very loyal to cyrus until she wasn't, you know, yeah, yeah for sure, yeah, it's, uh, he's definitely, I think, one of the most complex characters on the show hands down.
Ashley:Okay, let's move on. Let's talk about I love this question, so I wrote this. Can we talk about how fitz survived in a fair going public? What the fuck His first term was reelected.
Sara:I mean, I know his son like whatever died or got shot, murdered, whatever. But like, oh my God, and it's funny because you just said like and I totally agree with what you said about Fitz. Like he's like morally, probably one of the like, like most, like one of the best people, one of the like, like most, like one of the best people, one of the best characters in terms of, you know, integrity and whatnot and ethics, even though he went through this affair, and that like that's just saying something.
Ashley:That just like a lot about other characters, his marriage would still be one of the best characters in the in the series.
Ashley:Yeah, like we are not condoning cheating or affairs or anything, but he still ended up close to the top. That tells you something. Yeah, yeah, it's true, though I mean, what are the actual odds that someone would survive that in? Well, I say that I mean, look at Trump. He says all the things, he's done all the things, and there's all this proof, and half the country's still voting for him so that is such a good point it's like really depressing actually, but it is wow, maybe that wasn't so off.
Sara:I don't know, I've never thought of it that way. But also, um, like you find out very early on in like season one that olivia and fitz are having an affair or had an affair. And I remember, like how long can this stay under wraps? Because I'm like, okay, there's what Eight, nine seasons in the series. You know, obviously they're both in the series. The entire time I was just like trying to calculate in my head. I'm like, how long are they gonna like keep this, you know, a secret? And I was surprised it wasn't even that going to keep this a secret. And I was surprised it wasn't even that long that it stayed a secret. And I was like when it came out, I was like, what more to the show can there be? And there was so much more. I mean, I was so naive.
Ashley:Okay, most important question of the night Are you Team Fitz or Team Jake?
Sara:I okay, this is another thing I may not be totally proud of. I am a thousand percent team Jake. I just think he loved Olivia so much and like, literally like I would get goosebumps seeing them like interact, like they were just so perfect until Olivia literally turned him evil, like because she was so like crazy to him.
Ashley:Yeah, I agree, I was team Jake all the way. I liked him ten times better than I liked Fitz.
Sara:All right, let's talk about our girl, Mellie. Mellie Thoughts on her and her political and personal journey.
Ashley:So Mellie is a character who at first I was like. Well, first of all, obviously you have to feel bad because she's getting cheated on, right? I mean, that's how this all starts, yes, in the White House, but she was also very bitchy.
Sara:And she also had an affair.
Ashley:Yes, that's true, she did. That was later. Well, was that later? No, that was when he was governor of california, because it was his lieutenant governor that she had the affair with. That's right, that's right, that's right. But you don't know that right away. Fair fact, yeah, yep, um, yeah, so, yeah, so anyway, and mind you, like I said, she has every right to be bitchy, but she was just a hard character to like.
Ashley:It wasn't like I was like oh I wasn't rooting for melly, you know, at first, yeah, but I will say by the end of the show mel is probably one of my favorite characters. Um, totally agree, first of all to your point. Her journey, like she comes just such a long way personally, um, but also professionally, I mean, like her ambition and just her political journey. She ends up like the last season she's the president and so I think you know you had written down here like the filibuster scene. That was a cool scene scene. But she, I just, yeah, I just she was a character who it was hard to like at the beginning, or hard to even like kind of hope anything good happened to her, and then by the end it's like you're rooting for her.
Sara:Yeah, yeah, and I think, like that's the exact point creating this character, this woman in politics who is literally the first lady people don't really like because she has, you know, she's not agreeable, she's not, you know, super personable. You know she'll do it for the cameras, but that's about it.
Sara:She's too smart, Like all the things that women get knocked for that they shouldn't Exactly she's extremely intelligent, she knows what the fuck is going on in politics, she wants to get involved, and so all of that is against her. But then, like I just think it's, I'm going back to her journey. I just think it's incredible how she never let that. I mean sure, like yeah, it'll, it'll get to you, but it never made her quit. She literally ended up being a I think it was a senator, and then, yeah, then the president and the filibuster scene that Ashley mentioned, like she basically stood on the Senate floor for, I think, like at a crazy, like 12, it was a long ass time.
Sara:Yeah, yeah, 10 to 12 ish hours, 10 to 12-ish hours. She was a registered Republican and she was standing up there so a bill that included reducing funds for Planned Parenthood wouldn't go through, and this was coming from her party and so I mean this was just very I mean it's very relevant today, unfortunately still, but this was again. I was watching this in the fall, the Ohio Reproductive Rights Ballot Initiative was going on and fresh in the mind and I just like that was just the coolest thing and I think Olivia somehow helped her because she really had to go to the bathroom and wasn't going to make it, and she somehow managed to get another senator up there I just, I just loved that moment because, you know, obviously melly and olivia had a very complex relationship.
Ashley:But no, I have so much respect for melly's character yeah, and I actually do love too how like melly and olivia's relationship matured. I don't obviously the last end of it, like when olivia goes batshit crazy for power and fucks it all up, but when she ends up I mean she runs malia's campaign, she becomes malia's chief of staff like just like two powerful women like doing things and you're like fuck, yeah, you know yep 100.
Ashley:Okay, so let's move on. Why do you think dramatic shows about politics, like scandal or madam secretary, which I know you haven't watched, but etc. Why are they so popular?
Sara:I don't know. I kind of like my my just off the head analysis is you don't, as an average human being, you don't get a lot of exposure past the media to the worlds that these people live in in in the political arena, you know what I mean. Like I just kind of loved putting a and you know it's obviously fictional, but I loved being able to put like scenario. You know how people say oh, put a face to the name. Like put a scenario to the. I don't know, or like I don't know what I'm trying to say, but kind of just like- I know what I'm trying to say, but I know what you mean.
Ashley:Like you were like oh, a senator can do this right.
Ashley:Like it's almost like you're just feeling like yeah, like you're seeing behind the scenes, like fitz is and what he, as a president, he wanted to do, got stopped because these three senators on the hill and like the efforts that it took for cyrus to manipulate or I shouldn't say, but you know, manipulate or talk to or influence groups to like, do things to help the president, like all that, those complex interactions that obviously, in you know these cases are fictionalized, but things like that really happen, right, I mean, like some of this inner workings happen. That way to see it, I think is is intriguing yeah.
Sara:So I don't know if that's like why shows like this are popular amongst you know, amongst folks, but I think that's why I was so, especially with this podcast, obviously. But I I just felt like it closed a lot of gaps for me, even though you know it is fictional, but it, you know, is not too far, too far out yeah, I think, I think it's that for sure.
Ashley:And I think the second thing is just like, in like human nature, like we are entertained by drama in that show. This show delivers on the drama. Um, you know, like, because, like when you do eventually watch, madam secretary, it's very different, it's absolutely like, I will say it's a little more realistic, right, like everyone involved in the president is like murdering other humans.
Ashley:There's not b613, you're telling me there's no like, yeah, shadow government running anything, um, but it's still, like you know, twists and turns and how are they gonna work this deal out or whatever, and so I think some of that is just like we as humans want to like be caught off guard or figure something out or whatever, and that's part of just drama series in general. Take politics out of it. I mean of just drama series in general. Take politics out of it. I mean, people love drama series, but I think, to your point, this, specifically with the political ones, is because you feel like you're seeing some of that inner working that we normally don't get to see as average Americans.
Sara:Yeah, yeah. So do you think watching these shows are a good way to get informed on the political landscape?
Ashley:So I think that people shouldn't take anything in these shows for facts, obviously, even though I think a lot of times there are a lot of parallels, um, but I do think there's actually something to be gained from watching these shows and you know, for example, they touch on like real world, real world issues or things going on. I think in scandal specifically, which, mind you, is like an not older show but it's not currently running. I mean this is right here's. I mean they had the episode on about the unarmed black teenager being shot by, like, police officers. They had olivia's abortion, which was super controversial episode. They had a melly's filibuster, which we mentioned, you know.
Ashley:I mean these are all real life things that happen and I think I think we as humans can like take something from that, because so many times the media, you know, sensationalizes one headline and someone sees a headline and that is it. No one else gets any nuance to what is actually going on. So when you watch these kinds of shows, you see like you see all the behind the scenes. I think the episode with the unarmed black teenager is like a really good example of this. Right, I mean that dad sat with that chair. I mean I'm going to cry like talking about it.
Ashley:I know that dad sat with that chair over his kid's body because he was like no, you know, and so like. But you saw all the behind the scenes of that, like why he was doing it, the talks he had with someone like I just think it makes us more empathetic is where I guess I would go with this is I think it's relevant in ways like that, like hey, we're all humans, you know, we and we can see each other and maybe like make it more about being a human like than anything else. So I think for me, that's what I really like about these shows too is like, yeah, you get some of that behind the scenes, like, oh, this is how the inner workings maybe work. But it's more like these things are real life things that happen and they're nuanced and they're hard and they're difficult, and it's not this black and white headline that Fox News or whatever the left side crazy left side is equivalent to. They're more complex than that and I think that's something good to remember.
Sara:Yeah, I totally agree and I think, like your point about media, I mean, obviously the media is like very much so involved in this show and so you do get like you know you're so, you're so into the show, but at the same time you are getting like headlines from both sides and like someone will just be like oh so, and so just posted this, like what are we going to do? Like you really do get that like full holistic view for the most part, and at least in Scandal I haven't watched, madam Secretary, yet that's on my list, but yeah, I didn't. I didn't.
Sara:I think going into watching it I was like, wow, this is going to be super unrealistic. Like I should take, you know, everything with a grain of salt, which I still think people should. But I feel like I did learn a lot, like a lot of like actual, real things and filled in a lot of gaps and, um, like now I totally understand why you already knew what filibuster, filibustering was when we did that episode because of Mellie's scene. So, like things like that. I'm like okay, like I can see how just watching a show like this can, um, can kind of, you know, refresh the civics education too.
Ashley:Yeah, that's a good point. It actually does Cause the other thing, like I think there was another episode where I knew something from Madam Secretary. I think it was when we did um might've been like about the president's cabin or something.
Ashley:Oh, okay, the cabinet episode where we did like um, the national security council, and you were like, how do you know that? I was like, madam secretary of the national security council, you know. But like, that's a real thing, right, and like, also see, like, especially that episode, you, you really do. I felt like I've learned a lot about like and I know obviously it's dramatized, right, I mean it's, and even probably they go outside the normal balance of what the secretary of state's office really does, but you still get an inside view of kind of like this is like what they deal with, or this is what they work with, or here's kind of what they're responsible for. So, yeah, I absolutely think it. It helps and, to your point, obviously you have to make sure it's like real and not part of the fiction of the show, but right, and honestly, sorry, go ahead, no, go ahead.
Sara:I'm gonna say honestly, it's probably good that I didn't watch the show any sooner, because I feel like the podcast has helped me confirm things, or like, oh, I heard that when we were doing research on that episode. Or like vice versa, know, you know, to stay along the the plot as much if I wasn't at least a little bit informed. But, um, yeah, I still, I definitely still learned a lot it is spooky sometimes, how like close to reality.
Ashley:Some of the episodes feel, um, right, because like, like the melly filibuster you said that like the unarmed black teenager, right, I mean like those are all things that have happened in real life america. And then also like um, not to bring madame secretary into this, but there's a madame secretary episode where, like russia, it's all about like the whole season's about russia invading ukraine and this was, I mean, this was way pre right, like any current war in ukraine. So like, sometimes it's just which finds you they take all of this from like real life possibilities and scenarios. But sometimes it is really just spooky, like how, you know, almost I don't say accurate, because it's fake, but you know what I mean how real, how it feels, how close it feels to like real life yeah, it's like how the simpsons predicts the future.
Sara:Yes, exactly, yeah, yeah, so sar.
Ashley:So, Sarah. Next question Does scandal make you want to be more involved in politics? Why, or why not?
Sara:This is so hard. I feel like, ok, this is a silly answer, but I feel like when Olivia was good and a badass, I wanted to be involved in politics more. And then when she was bad and you know shit was hitting the fan and it was just not good, I was like, nope, that sounds terrible. Like these people don't, like they spend like four hours at their home each day and like you know what I mean Like that is sounds miserable. So I don't, I don't know. Overall, I think I think it is inspiring just because of the cast and the women. So I feel like that has been like a positive influence on me wanting to get more involved in politics. But overall I don't know, and I mean I would love to like wear the nice fancy outfits and whatnot, but also like, but anytime I have to put on like jeans or something, I'm like, oh, this sucks, this is the worst day of my life.
Ashley:I have to wear real clothes.
Ashley:So in terms of that, I don't really know what about you I mean, for sure you have to know I was going to answer that yeah, both Scandal and Madam Secretary especially make me want to like beat them. I'm just like goddamn these women. Obviously not all the bad and scandal, but I think just yeah, I mean, I think just the ability to be in a position to make a difference is like very appealing to me. Um, so yeah, it's really inspiring when I watch these kinds of these kinds of shows.
Sara:Yeah, I love that. All right, you want to wrap it? Yeah, let's wrap it. I think we we kind of touched on this a lot, but what do we think the overall message of the show is?
Ashley:Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Is that the phrase? I think that's the phrase. I've never heard that, but I believe you. Oh well, it was in my poli sci classes. I feel like I should Google it. But or like total power used to always say that Absolute power yeah, it's absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Sara:Wow, yep, that is absolutely what the message of the show is, but overall it really is a great show and I do plan on watching. Madam Secretary is a great show and I do plan on watching Madam Secretary. So we will do another one of these debrief shows for that. But if you are interested in Scandal now, please go watch it. If we've ruined it for you, I'm so sorry, but I did give you that warning.
Ashley:If you agree with this. Did we really ruin it? Well, I guess we did say Mellie becomes president.
Sara:Yeah, but there's so much, there's so much, we could's so much, there's way more, even if you haven't watched it, it's still worth the watch.
Ashley:Like, trust me, there's so much more shit that happens, you'll never know what's coming.
Sara:Yeah.
Ashley:Yeah, we didn't even touch on like a lot of the side characters and they're like very prominent in this. Oh my goodness.
Sara:We didn't talk about.
Ashley:Olivia's yeah Huck.
Sara:We didn't talk about Olivia's dad.
Ashley:Psychotic man that he is, quinn, we didn't talk about. We didn't really talk about Jake. I mean, we talked about it in regards to Olivia, but I mean yeah, if you haven't watched it, go watch it.
Sara:Go watch it. Oh my gosh, I love Jake. Yeah, go watch it, and if you've already seen it and have either hot takes that are different than ours or you agree with us, just let us know. We would love to hear your thoughts on the show, because it's um, it's great and it's it's meant a lot to at least me. I was. I was definitely emotionally invested.
Ashley:So yeah, love it. All right, Thanks everyone. Thanks for tuning in, guys. We'll catch you next time.
Sara:Thanks for joining us for today's episode. We really appreciate the support.
Ashley:We would also really appreciate it if you hit the follow button and share this episode with anyone you think would enjoy it.
Sara:And we'd like to thank Kevin Tanner, who edited this episode. If you're interested in learning more about him and his services, his website and Instagram are in the show notes.
Ashley:With that, we'll see you next week.