Democracy in Crisis: The Threat of Another Trump Term

In episode 83, we talk about the threat of another Trump presidential term.

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Ashley: 0:00

Democracies fall or slide towards autocracy all the time. It is our job as citizens to protect our democracy if we want to keep it. Welcome back to the United she Stands podcast, the show that brings kindness and women into politics.

Sara: 0:21

I'm Ashley and I'm Sarah and we're two women from Ohio who are here to become more educated about American politics and build a community so we can all get involved and make an impact together.

Ashley: 0:32

We hope we'll inspire and empower you along the way. Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the United she Stands podcast. We are going to dive into a topic that is so, so important and maybe it seems obvious, and that is why a second Trump term is a threat to our democracy, and we are recording this on July 17th, that is, four days after the attempted assassination on Donald Trump, but we did have this episode planned for this date well before this most recent event. However, with the recent events, we obviously had to add to this episode, and we have to start this episode now by saying that our hearts truly go out to the families and all those in Butler County that were impacted by this act of violence. Violence has no place in politics. It has no place in our schools or our communities either. Yet, unfortunately, as Americans, we see it all the time and we are going to talk more about this later, but the point here is that we absolutely denounce all forms of violence, as all Americans really should. So, with all that said, it does not change our plan to record or release this episode.

Ashley: 1:45

Explaining the ways that Donald Trump is a threat to democracy does not equate to calling for violence. The things he does and says have to be addressed, and they can and should be addressed in a way that shares information and truth without inciting violence. I would argue that this is what most folks have been doing. Trump and team are, of course, going to try to spin this and act like. The majority of hateful and extremely divisive, violent inciting rhetoric comes from his opponents or those who speak out against him, but the reality is that it's just not true. We have receipts, honestly, on all the different ways. Donald Trump is one of the main people and one of the major driving forces to the rhetoric in this country that does and has incited violence. He is trying to rewrite this narrative now where, if you say he is threatening democracy or if you share the parallels to how other fascist leaders rise to power with what he's doing, then you're the one inciting violence. Ultimately, this is just a ploy to silence folks like us and everyone else out there from calling him on the things he has done, said and plans to do.

Ashley: 2:43

So, all that said, we can denounce violence and we absolutely do and we can talk about how mega extremists have helped put us in this position as a nation that is backsliding when it comes to our democracy. We can talk about the plans they have that are undemocratic, and we can, and we must still call Trump and team on the awful things they say, do and are planning to do. So back to the topic we had planned, which is still just as relevant, if not more relevant, and that is the threat Donald Trump does impose on our democracy as a candidate, and especially if he gets a second term. Like I said, maybe it's obvious to us, maybe it's obvious to you, but I personally know that I can't have trouble articulating just how bad things will be if he gets into office, when talking among friends and family, and especially if that conversation gets passionate. So we took the time to lay it out in an organized fashion, with some facts, data and examples, so we could better speak on it in the upcoming months.

Ashley: 3:34

We're hoping sharing it with you today in a thoughtful way will help you better articulate all the reasons this man is so incredibly unfit to be our president and how significantly altered or diminished we may see our democracy if he gets back into office. Ready, sarah? I don't know, man. I know we haven't even started yet. I feel like I already have to take a breath. So, before officially diving in, what are we drinking today, sarah, and maybe tell me it's something strong to get us through it.

Sara: 4:00

Oh, I am absolutely telling you it's something strong. I have a nice seafoam from the one and only Jackie O's. It's a 7%, so it's quite up there. Honestly, I was looking through the beer in my fridge and this is the lowest percentage beer that I have left. So, honestly, it fits very well for today's topic. We're going to need a little extra something to get us through. Maybe go to beer number two, just depends. We'll see how it flows. Ash, what?

Ashley: 4:27

are you drinking? Well, I said, make it strong, and I'm drinking a non-alcoholic beer. So I did the opposite. But I was on vacation last week Well, not really, I was traveling, I should say better and I drank a lot. So I just need a minute of a break, but need a minute of a break. But we did get some really cool beer that we brought back from Wisconsin, so this is one of those. It's from entitled, untitled art, which they do like really good fruited sours, and Nick got a couple packs of their non-alcoholic. So I'm drinking their mango dragon fruit and a fruited sour, so nice.

Sara: 4:58

It'll be like the placebo effect You'll like. It's like you know, it tastes like beer. You're going to need that to get through and yeah, it'll be fine. Yeah, exactly, okay. So, before we do anything today, we want to touch on who we will be supporting in the 2024 presidential election, and maybe you've guessed based on the episode topic today or the introduction Ash gave or our many social media posts, but we want to lay it out super clearly for everyone. Our goal is to be a place where people can come to learn and not a place where we tell you how to vote or who to vote for. But we just can't do that in this election.

Sara: 5:36

We will be advocating for a specific candidate and we will be advocating with all we have for them. The Republican Party as folks used to know it before Donald Trump, is just no more. It hasn't been for years and we must accept that. We're not saying all Republican elected officials are MAGA Republicans, but the political party itself, meaning the folks that run the show, and therefore a lot of the elected officials in prominent positions, are now MAGA Donald Trump Republicans. The days of Reagan and Bush are over.

Sara: 6:05

The rhetoric, the divisiveness, the hatred, the blatant threat to democracy. We cannot stand for any of it. Donald Trump and the current GOP leadership is a very serious threat to our democracy and, to be clear, when we say threat, we mean a threat that we have to deal with by sharing information about it and helping folks understand what they are doing and their agenda so we can defeat them at the ballot in November. But we will not soften that message, we will not partake in hate speech or dehumanize Trump or his supporters, but we will call the situation for exactly what it is, with examples and data. There are so many parallels to the messaging and actions him and MAGA Republicans have taken in the past decade, especially the past five years to Hitler, mussolini and other fascists that rose to power. Just some fun little examples here include undermining our democratic processes, like our elections, with false accusations of fraud, dehumanizing and demonizing fellow Americans who do not support him by calling them rodents, infestations, etc. Attacking the objective truth and creating his own version of reality. Attacking and undermining the media, embracing extreme nationalism and, honestly, the list goes on.

Sara: 7:19

I think the point has been made. We tell you all this to say we don't care who the Democratic nominee is. That is who we're going to be supporting and urging everyone to support this election. Not third party because you think Biden isn't great or too old. Not holding back a vote for Biden because we don't like the way he's handled Gaza or some of the things he's done. We must vote Democratic, whether it's Biden or not, if we want our country to still be a place of Democratic values in 2025. We must think long term and not be short-sighted for just the next four years.

Ashley: 7:51

There is a clear difference between these two parties at this point, and I will just say I'm not a party girl. Come on, that's funny. But seriously, I beg to differ. But seriously, you know, I don't like the two-party system. But seriously, you know, I don't like the two-party system. The thing is, none of that matters right now or, honestly, matters until Donald Trump and this entire mega-movement is no longer at the helm. One of these parties believes and upholds our institutions and democratic processes, and one idolizes and thinks a man who lies, bribes his way into office and undermines democratic institutions this country is built on is basically their savior.

Ashley: 8:30

Maybe folks think this stance is too dramatic or we're being alarmist, but we don't think that, and many other nonpartisan organizations and experts in the field of democracy don't either. You're seeing political scientists explain how dangerous our current predicament is and how Trump could take us to a point of no return. We have no desire to be part of the theatrics you see in the likes of Marjorie Taylor Greene, and we're not out here trying to scare folks. But we are paying attention. We are reading from a variety of sources, we are looking at studies and analysis and it's not good guys. That's the gist here, and it's so, so important that folks understand that this is not an election between two candidates where we are debating the best policies on the economy or how best to handle international relations.

Ashley: 9:04

This election, we are deciding if we find it acceptable to let the most powerful man in the world do whatever he wants Lie, cheat, incite an insurrection, spew and spread hatred, commit fraud, bribe porn stars to influence the outcome of elections, embolden extremists to act, tip our country into violence, et cetera, et cetera. I think you get the point. Or if we think that no one, and definitely not the most powerful man in the world, should be allowed to do these things or be above the law. We would absolutely not allow his behavior in our homes or our workplaces or our schools. Why would we allow it to lead our country?

Ashley: 9:37

In this election, we're deciding if we'll be a country that will uphold those democratic institutions and practices, if we'll uphold our freedoms and our rights outlined in the Constitution, if we'll be a country that continues to separate religion from state. We're deciding if we'll be a country where Americans, no matter their religion, race, skin color or gender, do not have to be afraid. That's what's on the line this election. Content of the day. We will be blatant and obvious this election season that Donald Trump is so unbelievably beyond unfit to be the president of the United States, and we will be doing everything in our power to make sure that a man who does nothing but lies and has plans to consolidate power under him in the executive branch is defeated at the ballot box this November.

Sara: 10:19

Drops mic. If it didn't cause so much noise in the background, we would drop mic.

Ashley: 10:24

But honestly I feel like I was just on a high horse there. Okay, stepping down. We're going to talk about the data and the facts. Guys, let's do it.

Sara: 10:31

It was lovely. I appreciated everything you just said, but, yes, data and facts, because you know, ash and I are huge data girls, if you know, you know. So we have to start with the state of violence in our country. First and foremost, donald Trump and MAGA Republicans are the problem when it comes to rhetoric that incites violence in this country. Let's just take a look at a few examples here.

Sara: 10:56

In 2016, and even more in 2020, trump supporters brought weapons to intimidate opponents and vote counters. After authorities apprehended a right-wearing extremist plot to abduct Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, trump belittled the threat at a rally. He disparaged Whitmer as a political enemy. His supporters chanted lock her up. And Trump laughed and replied lock them all up. Ha ha, ha ha. At an event in California back in October of 2023, shortly after Nancy Pelosi's husband was a victim of political violence, aka was attacked with a hammer. Trump says in a speech together we will take on the ultra left-wing liars, losers, creepers, perverts and freaks who are devouring the future of this state like a swarm of locusts his biggest supporters in government are no better, and he endorses these people and he emboldens them.

Ashley: 11:43

Let's just look at one example here, and we we're going to go with GOP representative Marjorie Taylor Greene. She repeatedly expressed support for assassinating powerful Democrats In 2018 on Facebook. A supporter wrote on one of her posts in quotes here now do we get to hang them? Question mark question mark meaning H and O question mark question mark question question mark. That person was referring to obama and former secretary of state hillary clinton for h and o. Just to make sense of this, marjorie taylor green responded with in quotes here the stage is being set, players are being put in place. We must be patient. This must be done perfectly or liberal judges would let them off.

Sara: 12:21

End quote I mean like I just that is someone who is in one of the highest elected federal congress.

Ashley: 12:32

Yeah, yes, and then in 2019. Let's just, let's keep the ball rolling in 2019. She liked a facebook comment suggesting nancy pelosi get a, in quote pure bullet to the head.

Sara: 12:44

So lovely, isn't?

Ashley: 12:45

it't it what those GOP people say.

Sara: 12:49

I can't even go on because my jaw won't stop dropping. And this doesn't even scratch the surface of things MAGA leaders are out there saying, or the impact that it actually has. Abc published a finding in 2020 where they could directly tie 54 cases of violence, threats or assaults back to the then-President, trump being the motivator behind them. Reviewing police reports and court records, abc News found that in at least 12 cases, perpetrators hailed Trump in the midst of immediate aftermath of physically assaulting innocent victims. In another 18 cases, perpetrators cheered or defended Trump while taunting or threatening others. And in another 10 cases, trump and his rhetoric were cited in court to explain defendants' violent or threatening behavior.

Ashley: 13:34

And this report was from 2020, so it doesn't even touch anything that has happened since then.

Sara: 13:40

And let me just be clear, a lot has happened since then.

Ashley: 13:44

Trump and MAGA Republicans are the problem here when it comes to rhetoric that incites violence. We can't let the media or anyone spin this narrative now that it's both sides just because Trump was impacted by the same violence he regularly incites. Both sides are not the same. Let's just compare the responses to the political violence events of Nancy Pelosi's husband and to the assassination attempt on Trump. Just to kind of prove our point way more here, when a crazy man with a hammer almost killed the husband of then House Speaker, nancy Pelosi, donald Trump jeered and mocked in a speech where supporters in the crowd laughed and we do have video of this. I unfortunately watched it prepping for this episode and it is just as appalling as it sounds. I unfortunately watched it prepping for this episode and it is just as appalling as it sounds. Link is in the show notes if you really want to see it. Then on Truth Social he also wrote this.

Ashley: 14:30

I purposely didn't comment on Nancy Pelosi's very weird story concerning her husband, but now I can because she said something about me with glee that was really quite vicious and he has it in quotes here of what she said. And he said I saw a scared puppy, she said as she watched me on television, like millions of others that didn't see that I wasn't scared. Nevertheless, how mean a thing to say. She is a wicked witch whose husband's journey from hell starts and finishes with her. She is sick and a demented psycho who will someday live in hell.

Ashley: 15:04

This is after this man was brutally beaten with a hammer in the head and almost killed Then on top of that. So that's Donald Trump's response. Donald Jr, his son, retweeted a photo of a Paul Pelosi Halloween costume in quotes here, showing a picture of underwear and a hammer, because, for those that don't know, he was in his underwear when he was attacked. So very sensitive humans. Here we have right. Someone was brutally attacked and this is the response, and several GOP members, instead of reaching out or offering condolences, like everyone has done since the attempted assassination of former President Trump, these are the kinds of things they're saying, and GOP members started conspiracy theories around the attack.

Sara: 15:38

Real impasse here. Yeah, yeah, yes. So, as Ashley mentioned, there has been some responses after the attempted assassination of Donald Trump and we're going to dive into those here. So we'll start with Nancy Pelosi, because it seems quite fitting she wrote in quotes here as one whose family has been the victim of political violence, I know firsthand that political violence of any kind has no place in our society. I thank God that former President Trump is safe. As we learn more details about this horrifying incident, let us pray that all those in attendance at the former president's rally today are unharmed. That was Nancy. Now President Biden wrote in quotes. I'm grateful to hear that he's safe and doing well. I'm praying for him and his family and for all of those who are at the rally as we await further information. Jill and I are grateful to the next day from the Oval Office, and he said in that address again quotes here we stand for an america not of extremism and fury, but of decency and grace I mean, can we see the difference?

Ashley: 16:51

I hope it's very obvious, but, um, I'll know. Yeah, so just to drive the point home here, and apparently I really had marjorie taylor green at the top of my mind when I was looking for people who said bad things, but I know she does, so I probably did. It's not hard to find. Yeah, here is her response. And this is the response to after Donald Trump's assassination attempt, where most people are calling for unity and lessening rhetoric and all that kind of good stuff. Here is what she wrote in quotes. Here we are in a battle between good and evil Good and evil in caps, by the way. The Democrats are the party of pedophiles murdering the innocent, unborn violence and bloody, meaningless, endless wars. They want to lock up their political opponents and terrorize innocent Americans who would tell the truth about it. The Democrat?

Sara: 17:40

Party is flat-out evil and yesterday they tried to murder President Trump. And just a side note here there is no evidence at all that any Democrat was involved or that even this man who attempted the assassination was moved or motivated by Democrats. The person who attempted the assassination was a registered Republican. There's also evidence that he donated $15 to ActBlue, the Democratic fundraising apparatus, on January 20th 2021, the date of President Joe Biden's inauguration. The donation was earmarked for the Progressive Turnout Project, but this organization says that this was the only donation from him and he's been unsubscribed from their list for over two years now.

Ashley: 18:17

Good point, sarah, really good point. So back to our main point of this section here is that MAGA messaging Trump and those he endorses are the problem here. When it comes to inciting violence. In the current state we are in in our country, both sides are not the same and we have to stop pretending like they are.

Sara: 18:33

So the violence alone should honestly be enough, in our opinion, to end conversations about why Trump and MAGA Republicans are unfit. Like that's it, folks. He's a man who spews hatred and has incited the worst in so many over the past almost decade. Honestly. But if that's not enough and we know for some folks it isn't, somehow but we want to talk about one of the arguments we've either heard or seen out there from people, and that is it wasn't that bad the first time, meaning it wasn't that bad the first time president or former President Donald Trump was in office. First of all, we still don't fully understand the damage he did, as it's still playing out.

Sara: 19:12

But let's talk about the damage we do know about, and we're going to start with the entire fake news world we live in now, which is so dangerous, where there are some kindling here. Prior to Trump entering the scene, he added gasoline and then lit the match when he started his campaign back in 2015. Norman Ornstein, a scholar at the conservative American Enterprise Institute back in 2015, said there were a couple of forces at play for years before Trump entered politics that has enabled him to do this. Those forces were the fact that people were desensitized to inflammatory rhetoric, the assault on science and expertise and the increasing reliance on partisan media. Add the ability for conspiracy theories and disinformation to spread on social media and we have the lack for a better word here, the shitshow we are in now.

Ashley: 20:00

We do so. In 2016, oxford Dictionary selected the word post-truth as its word of the year and defined it as the state of affairs when, in quotes here, objective facts are less influential in shaping public opinion than appeals to emotion and personal belief. And I think that kind of sums up the 2016 election. Anyway, this is exactly the world we started living in back then and continue to live in now. Politifact, which is a non-profit organization that credibly fact-checks politicians on both sides of the aisle, named Fake News their Lie of 2016, and said in quotes here fake news is the boldest sign of a post-truth society. When we can't agree on basic facts, or even that there are such things as facts, how do we even talk to each other? And this quote exactly sums up the point we are trying to make here the objective truth seems to no longer matter. Let's just take a super basic example that really shouldn't have anything to do with politics, to be honest, and that's the weather. Do we all remember sharpie gate in 2019?

Sara: 20:57

well, if you don't, don't worry, we'll remind you so we can walk through this example of how trump and team refuse to live in a land of reality. Trump tweeted in 2019 that Alabama was one of the states at greater risk for Hurricane Dorian than had been initially forecasted. This hurricane was on track to hit the east coast of Florida, so not the Gulf where Alabama is located. The Federal Weather Office in Birmingham then tweeted that actually, alabama would be unaffected by the storm, unlike what the president had said. Trump, having to be right and unwilling to accept reality, then went on basically a campaign to assure folks that Alabama was at risk, and this effort included eventually showcasing a hurricane map that was crudely altered with a Sharpie. The Sharpie was used to include Alabama in the track of the hurricane.

Ashley: 21:46

Just Google it, folks, if you want to see the drawing. It's pretty pathetic. Maybe you or someone you know would be like whatever everyone knows. That's not real. Well, here's the issue. First of all, folks don't. Some people think the media and everything about it is made up and they only believe what this man now says.

Ashley: 22:02

Second, and maybe the bigger issue here is that behind the scenes, the White House jumped into action to try to pressure federal weather experts into saying Trump was right and they were wrong. And this is the dangerous part. He's not a lone man spewing his lies. He was surrounded then by a bunch of yes, people, an entire team of people in powerful positions who will do what they can to ensure his false narratives and lies are sold to as many people as possible. And if people didn't do that, he fired them. So back to the question. If we can't even agree on the path of a hurricane which experts came together and published no one else was disputing this hurricane path how do we talk to each other? How do we have meaningful conversations about real issues impacting America? We just can't, and Trump and team have created this situation for us.

Sara: 22:47

I do want to give props to whoever coined the term Sharpie, sharpie.

Ashley: 22:52

I know so solid. I know I saw it in an article, it's in the sources somewhere, but yeah, I'm not sure where it first started, but it is pretty solid.

Sara: 23:01

Oh my gosh, that's incredible, oh man.

Sara: 23:04

Ok, so let's move on to the second thing we're going to talk about today in regards to the damage that he's already done, and this is going to be the damage he has done to our democratic processes.

Sara: 23:14

The big news world that he has created, that we just talked about, has made it possible to also undermine democracy, primarily through false claims on election fraud Before the 2016 election. So almost a decade ago which is crazy to say he started making claims that widespread voter fraud is happening in the United States. This is completely untrue and we'll share the research on this later. To prove this point, and even at the time, both Democratic and Republican election officials were telling folks it was not true. Trump claimed this fraud during the 2016 election when he was down in the polls, and he said it even after he won too. His ultimate goal Get folks to not believe election results, hence undermining one of our most critical components of our democracy. And we could not go without saying that this rhetoric he started back then set him up for the exact scenario we saw in 2020, where he would claim the election results were false and tried to stay in power.

Ashley: 24:07

We'll talk so much about this more later, but it's so hugely important to note here as we personally believe it's in the top five as one of the most damaging things that he's done, and I mean that's saying something, because this man's list of bad things he's done is long long, long, and speaking of long, we could honestly go on and on about the different ways he has caused damage, but we have to keep this episode to a reasonable length, so we are only going to touch on one more thing here, and that is the damage he has done to our judicial branch. As I think most people know, he appointed three Supreme Court justices while in office, which has led to our current Supreme Court makeup, which is made up of six conservative and three liberal justices, and this court has been busy, undoing decades of precedent and helping slowly erode some components of our democracy. We'll talk through a few examples here in a minute, but first we would be remiss to not say that Trump should have really only been able to appoint two justices while he was in office.

Sara: 25:00

So let's take a quick trip back to 2016. The GOP majority in the Senate in 2016 kept a Supreme Court seat open for a year and would not enable Obama to fill it, because they claimed it was an election year. In February of 2016,. Obama to fill it because they claimed it was an election year. In February of 2016,. Conservative legal giant Justice Antonin Scalia died, leaving a space on the Supreme Court. The process is relatively straightforward the sitting president nominates a qualified candidate and then the Senate votes to confirm with a simple majority.

Sara: 25:28

Just hours after Scalia's death, republican Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell announced that he would block any such move. He said the American people should have a voice in the selection of their next Supreme Court justice. Therefore, this vacancy should not be filled until we have a new president. Senate Republicans joined with him in blocking the appointment. It was an unprecedented decision that sparked a large political battle. In the end, mitch McConnell got his way and Merrick Garland, the moderate candidate nominated by Barack Obama, did not take a seat on the court. Instead, donald Trump nominated and confirmed Neil Gorsuch after he was elected.

Ashley: 26:02

Let's fast forward four years later and the tables were turned. Ruth Bader Ginsburg died just six weeks before the 2020 presidential election, leaving a space on the Supreme Court to be filled. So what did the GOPp controlled senate do this time? They rushed through an appointment for donald trump to ensure amy coney barrett filled the vacancy. I mean the hypocrisy. Like this is I, you know. I really just put this in this episode to prove this point of like these people don't play fair anymore. There, there's no decorum. There's you know what I mean? Like it's just. This is how this is operating now.

Ashley: 26:35

So, just to ensure we understand how really slimy this was, here's a direct quote from Lindsey Graham, who's a Republican Senator from South Carolina. In October of 2018, so in the middle of Trump's term he, in quotes here, said I'll tell you this if an opening comes in President Trump's term and the primary process has started, we will wait until the next election. So, with that history in mind, let's talk about what this has meant to our country. Really. The Supreme Court has rolled back decades of precedent, and this precedent hasn't been set by just liberal judges. This is precedent from Supreme Courts that have been mostly conservative leaning as our courts really, especially our Supreme Court, has been most of our recent history. So this is precedent set by other conservative justices over the last century that basically this new court has gone and upended.

Sara: 27:20

I hate that we have to do this, but we're going to go through some of their most notable rulings, and the first one here will come to no surprise to anyone the Dobbs decision in 2022, which was Dobbs v Jackson Women's Health Organization. This is a landmark decision of the US Supreme Court, in which the court held that the Constitution of the United States does not confer a right to abortion. The court's decision overruled both Roe v Wade from 1973 and Planned Parenthood v Casey from 1992, returning to individual states the power to regulate any aspect of abortion not protected by federal law. To be fair on this ruling, many legal scholars over the years have said that abortion was protected on very shaky legal grounds in the Roe ruling, but this ruling did go against past legal precedent and obviously greatly endangers women's lives and health all over the country.

Ashley: 28:12

We're just going to move on from that, because it's one of our most sore subjects. So the second one we have to talk about is Trump v the United States, which just happened here in 2024, very, very recently. This is the decision that gives presidents immunity from criminal prosecution. The court ruled that the president has absolute immunity for acts they commit as president within their core constitutional purview. At least presumptive immunity for official acts within the outer perimeter of his official responsibility should be his or hers anyway, and no immunity for unofficial acts. So what is an official act? Well, that's a great question, but they basically made it impossible for non-official acts to be tried anyway, so I'm not sure the definition really matters. Here's an example of why that is.

Ashley: 28:53

Let's look at Trump's attempt to overthrow the election results of 2020. Communicating with the attorney general as president is clearly an official act. Trump sought to have his acting attorney general send a letter to the states to discuss investigating alleged election fraud and, after the acting attorney general refused, repeatedly threatened to replace him. Trump is absolutely immune from prosecution involving discussions with Justice Department officials, and this evidence cannot even be used to prosecute him. So even if they decide something he did was not an official act. They can't use any of this evidence against him because he was talking to someone which he is covered under, basically being the official act of a president. It's extremely dangerous and opens the door to a president really having no consequences down the road for whatever action they want to take, and I've read a lot on this ruling and I have not seen a single legal scholar come out and say that it was really in any way justified.

Sara: 29:46

Oh my, this just also makes me want to vomit.

Sara: 29:51

And the list goes on, but again, we only have so much time here. So lastly, and maybe one of the most broadly impactful to everyday life, is the overturning of the Chevron deference doctrine in the Loper Bright Enterprises v Raimondo, also decided just recently here in 2024. The Chevron deference, set in 1984, gave federal agencies wide powers to interpret laws and decide the best ways to apply them. The idea was that if Congress passes a law where something is unclear or there is a gap, it is up to an agency to fill in the gap. This gave agencies in the federal government, such as the Environmental Protection Agency, the freedom to create and implement rules without fear of legal battles In areas like workplace safety, financial markets and the environment.

Sara: 30:37

Courts and, by extension, businesses contemplating legal challenges to regulations had to yield to agencies' interpretations of laws. When the court ended this deference in this 2024 ruling, the conservative majority slashed and severely weakened the powers of agencies, including the EPA, the FDA, labor agencies, etc. Advocacy groups argue it will be a setback for clean water, public health, fair lending, worker safety and other areas where people rely on federal agencies who are made up of experts like doctors and scientists to set laws and regulations. It's also viewed as a huge power grab for the courts, because now it will be judges making decisions and they do not have the expertise necessarily to decide things like how much nitrogen may be discharged by a wastewater treatment plant.

Ashley: 31:25

So how are we feeling about that? It wasn't that bad the first time argument.

Sara: 31:30

Super, super great, Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Ashley: 31:34

Well, maybe if you're like us, you think it's a bit weak, but like a bad infomercial. Don't worry, folks, we're not done yet. We have more. So we've talked about some of the major ways he has already done damage to our country and now let's talk about why he is set up to do even more basically round two, if he gets a chance.

Ashley: 31:58

His first time around, he wasn't expecting to win. I don't have a source linked in the show notes on this, but I've read several articles from Republican leaders and policy people and stuff that help with this. No one was expecting him to win. He was down in the polls, all this kind of stuff. So he wasn't expecting to win the first round. Like I said, he was down in the polls. That's why he was spewing election fraud rhetoric. The point is he didn't think he would win, so he didn't have a plan on what to do once he got into the Oval. He also is not a career politician and did not have really any political experience. He had no experience in regards to how government works, so he really didn't know what he was doing the first time around.

Ashley: 32:29

Well guys, he knows better now and he is expecting to win this time. There's an entire plan around how to get all the things he wants done and, yes, we are talking about Project 2025, and we will be doing episodes on this in the future, so we're not going to go into a ton of detail today, but we'll just say this for now Project 2025 is a 900-something page document on how he can consolidate power in the executive branch and what he will do with all that power once he has it. Like I said, we'll have episodes on it soon, but it's not some conspiracy theory or far-fetched thing. That cannot happen. Scholars, doctors, policymakers, smart and extremely conservative people wrote this playbook and it gives a step-by-step for Trump to gain incredible power if he gets back in office. All this to say, he is much more prepared this time to get the things he wants done than he was the first time and he knows how to remove people who are going to be in his way.

Sara: 33:18

The second reason he is better set up to cause more damage than round one is because of rulings put out over the past several years by the Supreme Court. We already touched on a few, but the major one we'll call out here is the 2024 ruling in Trump v United States, which is the presidential immunity case that we again discussed in detail. Another important call out here around the judicial branch is that Trump appointed more than 200 judges to the federal bench, including nearly as many powerful federal appeal court judges, in four years as Barack Obama appointed in eight. He worked closely with Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and other Senate Republicans to reshape the federal judiciary, particularly the appeals courts, for decades to come.

Sara: 33:57

Federal judges have lifetime tenure and typically remain on the bench long after the presidents who nominated them have left office. We've already seen rulings from some of these judges in favor of Trump. For example, just recently, one of the judges who was appointed by him and was overseeing Trump's federal case for allegedly taking and concealing classified documents after leaving office, decided to rule against decades of established law and precedent to just toss the case out of court. His overhaul of the federal judiciary should concern everyone. We have already seen that some of his appointees are unwilling to use the courts as they should to hold him accountable. Womp, womp.

Ashley: 34:33

All right, womp, womp. All right, womp, womp. Oh, I know, okay. So we're going to move into, kind of our last main section here today and that's around really, democracy and the fact that our country is on the backslide. So you know, this is something we've been alluding to over and over. We definitely alluded to it a lot in our introductions today, but democracies fall or slide towards autocracy all the time. It is our job as citizens to protect our democracy if we want to keep it.

Ashley: 35:00

I was talking to a family member about the upcoming election and they literally said something to me like this I trust the Constitution to keep Trump in check if he gains power again. And I'm crap you, not my eyeballs, I feel like maybe were popping out of my head, my jaw was hitting the floor. I was just. I didn't actually even respond well in the moment because I was just so shocked by this statement, but I want to say, excuse me, sir, this is like a 250-year-old document. Our country has drastically changed and that constitution has been altered 27 times. As of 2021, the United States is no longer even considered a full democracy and is now considered a flawed democracy. So please tell me how this document is going to keep our democracy. It just I just seems so incredible to me that that was the statement that came out of their mouth, so just let me know, let me know.

Ashley: 35:49

Yeah, I would love to see the love, to see your backing of that. Okay, so it may seem obvious, but we have to say it. Democracy only works if the people make it work. We must vote, we have to be informed, we have to advocate and fight for what we care about and we must be the ones to defend that democracy and our freedoms. We do not get to sit back and be like the Constitution will just do its thing. I mean, I just still get worked up about that statement. I think that actually might be the most in this whole episode. That might be the thing that worked me up the most.

Sara: 36:18

I don't blame you at all. So, ash, we're going to let you take a breath here. But back to our audience. If you need some help convincing someone that we have to protect our democracy, especially if that someone is your Republican parents or grandparents use this quote from one of their favorite Republican presidents, ronald Reagan, in quotes here. Freedom is a fragile thing and is never more than one generation away from extinction. It is not ours by way of inheritance. It must be fought for and defended constantly by each generation. And if that quote isn't enough, we're going to share some data and research that proves this exact point and explains the current state of our democracy and a little bit about how we got here. Hint, hint, our democracy is backsliding, aka moving away from democracy, like Ash said, and a ton of the why ties back to Trump and the MAGA movement.

Ashley: 37:07

So, like we said before, democracies slide towards autocracy all the time. Let's take a moment to define autocracy, just so everyone understands what we are talking about here for the next couple minutes. Autocracy is the authority or rule of an autocrat, which I know is not super helpful. So let's talk about what an autocrat is. Well, it's defined as a person such as a monarch or someone else ruling with unlimited authority, or one who has undisputed influence or power.

Ashley: 37:33

Many people think when democracies fall, there are tanks rolling through the streets, troops marching through cities, coups overthrowing governments and, basically, democracy going out with a bang or a series of bangs. These kinds of takeovers do happen, but more times than not, democracies tend to erode. Before collapsing, they backslide first. The most recent examples of established democracies that have become autocracies have all happened more gradually, incrementally building to the point where little of the old system remains. We aren't going into the details today on this, but if you want to look into some of these examples, you could look at countries like Brazil, poland, turkey or India. These are all nations that have seen a significant backsliding in their democracy since 2000.

Sara: 38:11

So back to our point here. The sharpest turns toward autocracy have frequently coincided with the election of extreme conservative leaders. We really just want to quote this whole article, because it's basically exactly what we're seeing play out with Trump. Sebastian Hellmeyer, one of the researchers who examined episodes of democracy's backsliding, said in quotes here the actors that promote autocratization are usually the chief executives, and they can have large parliamentary majorities. End quote Chief executive, aka in our government, that is the president. He goes on to say quotes. In the end it's kind of a death by a million cuts, with a lot of similar changes that are difficult to stop until it's too late. End quote Again sound familiar Rights being attacked around the country, voting access being restricted, the president being above the law, the appointment of so many judges that have proven they are more concerned with carrying forward conservative ideals than justice, the SCOTUS making power grabs in their recent ruling through the Chevron case, et cetera. I'm out of breath, man.

Ashley: 39:13

I know right. So, if we didn't make it abundantly clear, we are considered a backsliding democracy. The 2021 edition of the Global State of Democracy Report marked the first appearance of the United States on that list. This backsliding episode began at least in 2019, with signals as early as 2016 and origins possibly before that. So our democracy is backsliding, and that is definitely not a good place to be. Of the 81 democracies that have went through some type of backsliding since 1900, as of today, only seven of those democracies remain democracies Only seven, that's 8.6% of democracies that have went through some form of backsliding still being democracies today. 12 of those remain in crisis and 62 have turned to autocracies Not to give you the most depressing news ever, but there's the data for you Y'all.

Sara: 40:00

I'm scared, okay. So what puts us in the category of backsliding? A few things, but a report from Brookings Institute published in September of 2023 named two main factors. Those are election manipulation and executive overreach. On election manipulation, the report goes on to state most obviously, after the 2020 election, the sitting president, despite admitting privately that he had lost, attempted to subvert the results and remain in office. Gop-led state legislators since 2010 have also instituted laws intended to reduce voters' access to the ballot, politicize election administration and foreclose electoral competition via extreme gerrymandering.

Ashley: 40:42

So, going off of that GOP activity, that started happening, you know, back in 2010,. We then had Donald Trump come along and cause huge unjustified mistrust in our election system and processes and he emboldened those GOP-led state legislatures even more. Until recently, election administration was nonpartisan, but in many states it has now become a partisan issue. Since 2020, state legislatures have passed dozens of laws to increase partisan control over election administration and vote counting procedures. Politicization also continues at the local level, with many veteran election administrators retiring and, in some cases, being replaced with election deniers. This is all in response to the election denial Trump and, in some cases, being replaced with election deniers.

Sara: 41:18

This is all in response to the election denial Trump and Magas have spewed for four years now. They went to court several times some were courts with Trump-appointed judges and none of the election or voter fraud cases ever stuck because they have no evidence. Our elections are secure and free and fair. In fact, the Brennan Center's report the Truth About Voter Fraud conclusively demonstrated that most allegations of fraud turn out to be baseless and that most of the few remaining allegations reveal irregularities and other forms of election misconduct. Numerous other studies, including one commissioned by the Trump administration, have reached the same conclusion.

Ashley: 41:56

So, in summary, there is no evidence to prove any of his claims, but in Donald Trump's presidential-sized tantrum he threw to hold onto power, he has eroded one of the most important components of our democracy, and this is just one of the reasons folks are screaming. Donald Trump is an existential threat to democracy. Political scientists all over, who study democracies, including the rise and fall of them, have been telling us this for years. Guys, I've found a lot of these sources and articles are back from 2020, 2021. No one should be surprised by this anymore, but weirdly enough, I don't feel like it's being said. Well, I feel like we're hearing this, like he's an existential threat, but like no one is.

Sara: 42:31

I mean, there's just so much that's happening and it's like how can you even keep up with all the way he's threatening things around us?

Sara: 42:43

Yeah, exactly how can you keep up? So, moving on to the second main component of our backslide, and that is the executive overreach, aka, the president has gained too much power in regards to our balance of power among our three branches of government. The report explains that even a legitimately elected leader can become an autocrat by consolidating power, via reducing the independence of the civil service and by undermining the checks and balances provided by the legislature and judicial system. The civil service is essential to good governance and is a critical component of modern democratic practice. The civil service are the folks employed by the government that are not elected, so think workers at government agencies like the DOJ or FDA. These workers and agencies collect and release vitally important data that citizens use to assess whether politicians are doing a good job, so things like the unemployment rate, government spending figures, etc. Because of this, it is critical that government agencies in charge of reporting this type of data are not corrupted by partisan considerations.

Ashley: 43:40

Now hang in here with us guys, because this gets really in the weeds here a bit, but it's so important to understand how Trump really did make power grabs while in office and how he plans to do so even more in the future. We're just going to read this next paragraph directly from the Brookings report. It states to an unprecedented degree, the Trump administration and its allies sought to delegitimize, incapacitate and politicize the independent civil service. Throughout his term, and as part of his attempted election subversion, president Trump pressured and fired senior officials in the Justice Department. During the COVID-19 pandemic, the Trump administration interfered with the health reports provided by the Centers for Disease Control.

Ashley: 44:16

Civil servants at every level of government experienced retaliation when their work did not comport with the health reports provided by the Centers for Disease Control. Civil servants at every level of government experienced retaliation when their work did not comport with the claims or preferences of the administration. Entire offices were relocated to distant cities, forcing employees to uproot their families or quit. Attacks on the honesty of individual election officials, health officials and others became commonplace, in some cases provoking threats of violence against them. Shortly before the 2020 election, president Trump released an executive order. In quotes here, the executive order was Schedule F intended to give him the authority to fire as many as 50,000 career civil servants. Preparations are underway to continue this process of power consolidation under a future Republican president, whether or not that president is Trump. That's directly from the Brookings Institute report.

Sara: 44:59

That's insanity. We're going to get so much more into the plans for this and the impact it would have in future Project 2025 episodes At least that's the plan right now but just know the power the president would have if this is done which we know Trump plans to do is scary. Think appointing folks in the FDA who will reverse the approval of Mifepristone as just one example of how easily he will be able to control things with no interference from the courts or legislature. So there is this threat at the federal level absolutely, but it's also happening all around us in state legislators. Political scientist Jake Grumbach finds that partisan polarization has a minimal role in explaining the state's democratic backsliding, but that Republican control of state governments dramatically reduces states, but that Republican control of state government dramatically reduces states' democratic performance.

Ashley: 45:52

So I threw that piece in there because I think it's important to note that, like we pay so much attention to the federal and we always talk about it, and obviously it is hugely important to keep Trump out of power but these gerrymandered GOP-controlled states are the ones that are backsliding on the democracy scale too, which I just think is so important to note.

Sara: 46:10

Definitely.

Ashley: 46:11

So we'll leave you with this in regards to the threat to our democracy. In the words of political scientists Daniel Ziblatt and Stephen Levitsky, the electoral road to breakdown is dangerously deceptive. People still vote. Elected autocrats maintain a veneer of democracy while eviscerating its substance. Many government efforts to subvert democracy are legal in the sense that they are approved by legislature or accepted by the courts.

Sara: 46:35

So let's wrap this up. We have a lot to wrap up. Today. We talked about the violence both Trump and MAGA's incite. Then we shared several ways Trump has already done damage to this country and our democracy and why he is set up to do even more if he gets another shot at it. Lastly, we talked about the state of our democracy and how the MAGA movement, led by Donald Trump, has accelerated our democratic backsliding, based on the research and analysis from political scientists around the world.

Sara: 47:02

We'll end with this Donald Trump is a threat. If you know that and believe that, then we're going to remind you that it's okay to not vote for your party, even outside of this election. Our loyalty should not be to a party, but to the candidate that will best represent us this year. In this case, we have to vote for the candidate that will defend our democracy. So, when 2028 rolls around, you have the opportunity to vote for a candidate that aligns more with your values, as opposed to not voting. Just to be clear, we have to throw away our pride, our egos, our party loyalties, whatever it is that makes us get defensive or want to stick to what we've always done.

Ashley: 47:39

Political parties have a place in democracy, but we're at a point in American politics where these political parties and these candidates are nowhere near comparable or the same. Whether you're a Democrat, independent, conservative or you don't want to pick a label, but you're concerned about our country and want an administration that will ensure our democracy is upheld, then make sure you plan to vote this fall. And if you're specifically conservative, I want to say something to you right now. If you want your party back, we believe the best way to do that is to raid your party of this hatred and extremism that is Donald Trump and mega politicians, and to do that, you have to show up at the ballot box and show them they can't win on the ballot. You have to show them that Americans, no matter their political party or views, will not stand for what Donald Trump is and what him and his movement plan to do.

Ashley: 48:21

Thank you, guys, so much for tuning in this week. Now more than ever, please, please, please, share this information with your friends and your family. We hope you feel equipped to do so. You can talk to them about it or you can send them content like this, this episode, in fact. It's easy for folks to live in echo chambers, and sharing this type of information really does make a difference. Some days, it feels easy to feel helpless or hopeless in this fight, but we are not either of those things. We'll leave you with this quote from George Washington Truth will ultimately prevail where there are pains taken to bring it to light. Thank you, guys, so much for tuning in this week and we'll catch you next week. Thanks y'all.

Sara: 48:54

We got this. Thanks for joining us for today's episode. We really appreciate the support.

Ashley: 49:07

We would also really appreciate it if you hit the follow button and share this episode with anyone you think would enjoy it.

Sara: 49:12

And we'd like to thank Kevin Tanner, who edited this episode. If you're interested in learning more about him and his services, his website and Instagram are in the show notes.

Ashley: 49:21

With that, we'll see you next week.

Sara: 49:34

The Republican Party as folks. Well, the Republican Party as folks, whoa Okay, the Republican Party. I can't even say it, thank you.

Ashley: 49:44

Kevin and.

Sara: 49:57

It's who we are. Oh, okay, okay, yep, that was helpful, thank you. We tell you all this to say. I just slapped my desk to make a point. There is also evidence. There's also evidence that he donated. You added this. Yeah, I know, I have no one to blame but myself. Those were the desensitization, desensitization, itation, oh my god. Negative ghost rider.

Ashley: 50:36

Well, I'll tell you have to tell everyone about it. So also, by the way, I did it until I did the research for this yes, of course ash.

Sara: 50:50

We all remember sharpie gay in 2019. Okay, I said that weird Democracy. Are you from New Jersey, I don't know, or Boston?

Ashley: 51:01

What if I said it every time in an episode like that? That was just like my thing. Okay, I think you should do it. Rest in peace. Sorry, I honestly almost paused because I was expecting you to do something, but I was not really expecting that.

Sara: 51:18

Girl you mentioned Ruth. I know I was expecting something.

Ashley: 51:21

I know, so if we didn't make it abundantly clear, oh my God, fuck me.

Sara: 51:29

Abundantly clear.

United SHE Stands

Democracy in Crisis: The Threat of Another Trump Term

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