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Improving Sales Performance
Focused on Talent: Development with Stephanie Downs and Kelly George
In this episode, we’re taking a good look at the Development section of the latest Talent Magazine from The Center for Sales Strategy
Here to help Matt determine the best ways to go about developing your people are Stephanie Downs and Kelly George.
Together, Stephanie and Kelly highlight some amazing points to think about, like:
- Why employees want to be coached rather than managed
- How AI tools may soon be helping leaders build personalized learning paths through the identification of employee skill gaps
- And, finally, why you should never assume that development is solely for new hires alone
LINKS:
The 2023 Talent Magazine
Stephanie Downs
Kelly George
Matt Sunshine
The Center for Sales Strategy
Welcome to Improving Sales Performance, a podcast highlighting tips and insights aimed at helping sales organizations realize, and maybe even exceed, their goals. Here we chat with thought leaders, experts and gurus who have years of sales experience from a wide range of industries. I'm your host, matt Sunshine, ceo at the Center for Sales Strategy, a sales performance consulting company. In this episode, we're taking a good look at the development section of the latest talent magazine from the Center for Sales Strategy. Here to help me determine the best ways to go about developing your people are Stephanie Downs and Kelly George.
Matt Sunshine:Together, stephanie and Kelly highlight some amazing points to think about, things like why employees want to be coached rather than managed, and how AI tools may soon be helping leaders build personalized learning paths through the identification of employee skill gaps. And, finally, why you should never assume that development is solely for new hires alone. And with that, let's start the conversation, all right. So, kelly, this one's coming to you first. What are some of the biggest trends when it comes to development? In other words, are there any major areas of focus right now that you're seeing or that you're passionate about?
Kelly George:Absolutely, matt. I am passionate about a couple of things that we're seeing for trends with development. For me personally, it's all about feedback and recognition right now, and this is for both leaders and their teams. So one of the development trends that we saw in our research this past year is that employees really want to be coached rather than managed, and recognition and feedback are really becoming the top priority they should be. Another thing I'm super excited about related to that is the increasing number of organizations who are encouraging peer-to-peer feedback and recognition and providing that culture where there's support and collaboration, and we know what that does to support teamwork. Just here at CSS, our High Five Fridays are such a big hit each week where we give and receive shoutouts with our peers to appreciate and acknowledge all the things that we've done that week.
Matt Sunshine:Yeah, that's a great one, and I'm glad that you brought up leaders as just as important, because I sometimes think leaders get the short end of the stick when it comes to development. It's like the leaders make sure everyone else is are getting developed, not enough on the leaders. So, stephanie, with that as a good segue in this year's Talent Magazine which, if you haven't, if anyone listening this has not read the Talent Magazine or seen the Talent Magazine, you need to. There'll be a link in the show notes. You need to click on it and get it. It's free, it's no charge and you can pick up a digital copy. But you wrote an article. You have a piece in there dedicated to exploring what we call the leadership mindset. Could you explain what we mean when we talk about the leadership mindset, maybe even give a few tips that might help the leaders that are listening better assess how they can adapt or evolve or change based on the challenges that they're facing these days?
Stephanie Downs:Yeah for sure. So let me give a little setup first to your point and then I'll give a couple of suggestions or tips on that. But we know I mean leaders are busy, right. I mean they have a lot going on. They're managing a lot of complex scenarios, there's a lot coming at them at any given day, and what's really important about it is that leaders need to have the right mindset in each of those situations that they're facing or that their organizations are facing. And when you think about leadership mindset, there's really two key components to that there's talent and then there's mindset, and both of those work together. So let me tell a little bit more about that. But as they work together, they determine how leaders really see and interpret different situations. And so think about it this way Mindset is really the instructions that you give yourself to handle the situation, and talent is the natural ability to actually succeed or to achieve or that you use in those scenarios.
Stephanie Downs:So really having the right mindset, but also having the right talent, is really important. So a couple of things. When you think about a situation that you may be facing as a sales leader, maybe it's something like you wanna be a more of a people first organization. Right, you're thinking about being a people first organization. So a process or something that you could think about is you could think about okay, what is one of your top talents that you know that you naturally have related to people and how can you use that talent as you're developing that mindset?
Stephanie Downs:And you would wanna ask yourself a few key questions. You would wanna ask yourself what is the mindset you wanna be known for People first in this scenario and then you would wanna ask yourself what are the instructions that you could give yourself that are most essential to ensure that you're constantly or consistently demonstrating that mindset? And then the next thing you could ask yourself is what is the impact on performance that you should see if you succeed? And, as I said this a minute ago, but it's really important that when you're thinking about establishing the right leadership mindset, that you're also pulling from an area of a top talent as you're trying to execute or succeed in that area.
Matt Sunshine:That's excellent. And, yeah, the whole leader. I love the instructions that you give yourself. That's such a descriptive way of making it real.
Stephanie Downs:Yeah, people don't always stop down and go okay, what are the one, two or three things that I have to do? Right, they say I want the mindset, but they don't always think about what is it that you're really giving yourself to make it happen.
Matt Sunshine:All right, so this next question is coming to either one of you. Either one of you can tackle this first or chime in and add to it. Anyone that knows me knows that this next question is right in my wheelhouse.
Stephanie Downs:You should answer this one no.
Matt Sunshine:I'm not going to answer this question. We can't talk about any subject these days without mentioning the impact of AI, and that's no different here. When it comes to development, how do you see AI or AI, the AI tech, or any of the different AIs that are out there right now, being included or folded into the development of employees? Is there anything that you're either seeing happening now or hearing about? Boy, this could be happening soon.
Stephanie Downs:Yeah, kelly, you want to go first, or you want me to jump in? Go first, I can't wait to All right.
Stephanie Downs:So when I think about this, it may be a little bit of a twist on what you're asking, but I think about it more from a learning and development standpoint and not just the development of people, even though we all know that people learning and growing in their role was about development of people, and I think we're just seeing maybe the tip of the iceberg on this.
Stephanie Downs:I think this is obviously such a big topic, but when you think about the learning and development of people, what I see happening, or what I see even what we're doing as a company, is thinking about how do we help salespeople sell smarter, how do we help salespeople sell faster, how do we help develop them in their roles and coach and train? And one of the things that we're doing at CSS a little bit of a tease that people don't know yet right is have something on our website that really helps salespeople make connections with prospects better, more efficiently, faster. There's a lot of benefits to this right, but just to get better at the sales process, and that really is more about themselves taking ownership and learning and developing in their role. But it also helps leaders coach their people right and get better at that part of the process and there's going to be other things coming too, but I know that that's just something as a company that we're doing to help with this and to support this, because it's a big and hot topic, as we know.
Matt Sunshine:Yeah, absolutely, Kelly. Anything to add?
Kelly George:Yes, absolutely. I love something what you said about Tip of the Iceberg. We are only getting started.
Kelly George:I mean we are. So it's just such baby steps right now, but, working with the seller the other day, their organization, national Media Company, is using AI to help empower their proposals, making sure that there is a piece of every service and offering that they have whether that's digital or whatever it might be in every single proposal, and it's been a huge help to all of those new sellers. One other cool thing I've been seeing, too, regarding development with AI is how to help measure or check in on employee sentiment, so that could look like there's a chat box or a virtual assistant that's offering guidance to employees on training materials or how to connect with a learning resource or just making sure that they are supported with navigating all of the different platforms. So that's simple, but it's new and, you know, it's really, really helpful and, I think, also just helping identify skill gaps and using AI for personalized learning paths. I think that's going to be another powerful way. We'll see that in the play now.
Matt Sunshine:Yeah, I will add to this one, stephanie. I read an article I don't remember where, but there was talking about how you might think about AI as just being your full-time coach, your full-time assistant, your full-time extra set of hands, and I think about it as a coach. And if I had, if I wanted to get better at swimming and I had a swim coach that could constantly be looking at my swimming and telling me how I could be more efficient and more effective in the water, that I would get better because of that right, the AI wouldn't do it for me, but the AI would be able to give me coaching on how I could get better. I think that that is one of the areas of development. Imagine all I mean if someone hires a coach, a sales coach or a leadership coach. This would be always available. Now you got to make sure the AI is good and you got to make sure the AI is giving you good coaching.
Stephanie Downs:Yeah, and you got to check it right, you get to check it literally Right.
Matt Sunshine:And make sure. But if you did have confidence in it and you did believe that what it was giving you was good, there's a lot of benefits that could come. I think we're early days, as they say. It's only going to get better than it is now.
Stephanie Downs:For sure A linear analogy. That was a good analogy.
Matt Sunshine:So, kelly, coming to you, in the recent Talent Magazine, you talked about strength coaching. Speaking of coaching, can you briefly explain what that is, why organizations should explore talent-based feedback in general as well as sales coaching?
Kelly George:Yes, strength-based coaching is really focusing first on identifying and understanding our strengths, and then how do we leverage those strengths to increase performance. So we're looking at our innate strengths rather than solely focusing on weaknesses or areas that we want to improve. So, matt, in the case study that you mentioned, our client, who is a director of sales at a national media company, uses talent assessments to identify the top talents of their new hires and then create a customized onboarding plan with strength development coaching. So from the outset, their new hires are set up for success. They have clarity about their talents. They also have these MRC very actionable strategies to play to those strengths immediately as they're onboarding, so they can achieve their goals and overcome challenges and obstacles.
Kelly George:So I think, when I think about talent-based feedback, I think it's a game changer for so many reasons, but some of my favorites would be one it has a positive focus, it's very empowering and it's very goal directed. So when we use talent-based feedback and strength coaching, we're helping individuals with taking ownership of their strengths and using those effectively to achieve their goals. So, in a nutshell, we're basically shifting the feedback mindset from problem-oriented thinking to a growth focus, and that's what I love about it. So it's really fun doing that case study.
Matt Sunshine:Yeah. So, stephanie, coming to you, let's stay on the topic of feedback, on giving feedback, and not so much as the giver of feedback but the recipient of feedback. So one of the things that we know through research is that too many people, way too many people, are not receiving regular feedback, feedback on a regular basis. I can't imagine. I can't imagine what that is like having to do your job and not knowing if you're doing it well because you're not receiving feedback. But what we learned from the article in the talent magazine is only one in four receive meaningful feedback, at most four times a year and in many cases, less than four times a year. Three out of four aren't receiving feedback, like hardly at all. How do you square that? Like, what's going on? What are the? What are the I'll use the word dangerous ramifications of not doing that? I guess it's what is being lost as a result of not providing that sort of feedback.
Stephanie Downs:Yeah it, what a missed opportunity. I mean, it is such a missed opportunity if leaders aren't providing that for their, for their team. One of the things we talk a lot about and Kelly, you were referencing this just a second ago one of the things that we talk a lot about at CSS is the growth formula of really understanding talent plus fit times. Investment, which is really the great multiplier in this, equals growth. And when you think about that talent, the innate abilities for the role that you're hiring, fit, fit for the position, for the role, for the organization, and the investment is that coaching and development. It's that feedback is part of that. Right, Getting you know, providing feedback is part of the investment piece and when all of that's done well, there's growth in the individual and the organization.
Stephanie Downs:So a couple of thoughts on the actual feedback part of the development piece of that. When it's not happening, you risk a lot of things. You risk the lack of loyalty in the work, in the person, that being loyal to the organization, you risk the perception of not being cared about and we all know that when people feel that way, they're more likely to leave an organization. And it impacts culture, it impacts employee engagement. Ultimately, that all impacts revenue performance.
Stephanie Downs:So a couple of suggestions on that for leaders that are not in the cadence of, you know, giving that feedback. Find those opportunities, whether it's in one-on-ones each week. Great opportunity for feedback is being in filled with salespeople and watching what they're doing when they're in front of clients or on Zoom alongs or whatever that case is. And when you get the opportunity for the feedback because there's a lot of, there's a lot of times that we can provide feedback make sure it's specific, it's in the moment that you're providing it on a consistent and frequent basis, and always follow the cadence of a five to one ratio of providing feedback five positives to one constructive feedback. Those would be a couple of things that really stand out to me. It's shocking to me that there's that many leaders that are not providing feedback on a regular basis. You're missing that investment piece in the growth formula in a big way.
Matt Sunshine:Yeah, kelly, anything to add? Yeah.
Kelly George:Yeah, it was so shocking to me as well. So I mean, I just it's just difficult to even wrap our mind around, but one of if I had anything to say, I would just say just do it. Whatever you have to do, just do it. Get it on your calendar, make a note of it. Do that in time, on the spot coaching. We know that if the feedback is vague or it's delayed, it's not going to be as impactful. So make it happen. You have all kinds of opportunities to be able to do that in the one-on-ones in the field, but just do it.
Matt Sunshine:Yeah, yeah. So I'll make this. I'll make this extremely real. We're working with a client right now that has someone who is a leader in the organization and that leader is not meeting expectations. Okay, for a number, this leader is a wonderful person. This leader has random acts of meeting expectations, but doesn't consistently meet expectations, and the higher leadership, the executive, senior leadership At this company is getting extremely frustrated with this person, and so we're having conversation and I asked I said when is the last time we provided this leader in question with feedback, and Not not recent? Right? They said well, this person's a leader, they should know what to do. And I said okay, but let's pretend that they don't.
Matt Sunshine:I said are the expectations clear? Does this person know how they're doing towards meeting this, those expectations? Also, have you shared with that person all the wonderful things that they are doing and then also the few things that they could get better at? Because that's what you're telling me right now is they do some wonderful things, but there's some areas where and they're like, well, no, because we don't want to upset the person and I said well, you're gonna have to have a tough conversation sooner or later.
Matt Sunshine:I would hate for you to get to the point where you're done with this person, you're thinking in your mind you're gonna have to make a change, and then you bring it up and the person is, oh, I wish I would have known, I didn't even know and we've seen that before. It's an awful place and so I think giving that feedback is, is, is super important. It's one of the and I know, in talent focus management, stephanie, you just you just got done leading that workshop. Yeah, I know there's a lot of time and attention on the importance of Feedback, which is really a subset of how do you develop. That's right.
Stephanie Downs:Yeah, go hand in hand.
Matt Sunshine:Last question, as we wrap up our time together, is there is, and Kelly will come to you first and then Stephanie will have you wrap it up Is that, is there one piece of advice? Or if there was one piece of advice that you could give when it comes to the continual development of the folks that work for you, what would that be? What's an actionable takeaway that will prove to be helpful for someone?
Kelly George:I think I would say focus on cultivating an environment of psychological safety, an environment where there's it's supportive, it's non threatening, there's an openness there for that feedback, where people can feel comfortable Receiving and giving that feedback. So, just creating that environment where there's open communication, we're having active listening. That means two way listening and mutual respect and using that feedback to facilitate growth and development and not criticize or judge. I think that ties in so much, matt, with what both you and Stephanie were saying Around that five to one feedback ratio and the specificity and cadence of providing that feedback.
Matt Sunshine:Yeah, Absolutely, stephanie.
Stephanie Downs:Yes. So I have two thoughts on this. One, don't assume the development of people is just for new hires in your organization. I see that, yeah, I see that way too often there's a lot of time invested on the newbies, whether new and experience or new to the organization, and not as much time on those that have been on the current team for a while or veterans. All need development plans, all need development, and top talent wants to be coached and developed and grown in organizations.
Stephanie Downs:Don't ignore that. That's one thing and have a routine around this. Whatever that routine is for you know, for you as a sales leader, but craft and development and coaching plan for each person on the team. And then find the routine that you're stopping down and saying, am I doing a good job on this? How could I be doing better? What should change in my development plan of each individual? And just have a process like that you follow. If it's on a monthly or quarterly basis Development needs to happen more often than that but the checks and balance of how am I doing on this? Have a routine to support it.
Matt Sunshine:Both of you. Thank you so much. That is great actionable things that people anyone watching this or listening this can put into place right away, which is always good when you can invest 20 minutes of time, 25 minutes of time and get one or two actionable steps. So thank you for that. Thank you for joining us. If you're listening or watching, thank you for joining us. We appreciate that. If you wanna connect or continue the conversation with either Kelly or Stephanie, you can do that on LinkedIn and we'll put the links to their LinkedIn profiles in the show notes so you can grab them there, and with that we'll say goodbye and say look forward to seeing you on the next episode of the improving sales performance podcast. Enjoy the rest of your day. This has been improving sales performance. Thanks for listening. If you like what you heard, join us every week by clicking the subscribe button. For more on the topics covered in the show, visit our website, the center for sales strategycom. There you can find helpful resources and content aimed at improving your sales performance.
