Part 3: Persecutor/Challenger Energy: Choosing Empowerment

Episode Overview:
In this episode, we explore the dynamics of persecutor and challenger energy within the drama triangle and how shifting from persecutor to challenger energy can lead to more constructive and fulfilling interactions. I share personal experiences and provide practical tips to identify and transform persecutor energy into challenger energy, fostering emotional intelligence and compassionate curiosity.

Understanding Persecutor and Challenger Energy:

• Persecutor Energy: This is characterized by controlling, blaming, or critical behavior often stemming from unmet needs. It can manifest through actions meant to assert dominance or control over a situation or person.
• Challenger Energy: This involves addressing issues constructively and assertively without resorting to blame or control. It focuses on empowering oneself and others, fostering understanding, and seeking long-term positive outcomes.

Main Ideas and Tips:

1. Identify the Actual Need
   • Recognize when persecutor energy arises and understand it often stems from unmet needs.
   • Ask yourself what you’re truly seeking, such as understanding, comfort, or reassurance.
   • Example: In a conflict, instead of insisting on being right, explore if your actual need is to feel understood.
2. Develop Emotional Intelligence and Compassionate Curiosity
   • Replace the belief that others should automatically understand your needs with a curious mindset.
   • Approach situations with empathy for yourself and others, asking clarifying questions to understand underlying issues.
   • Example: Instead of reacting defensively, wonder what additional information you need and how you can address issues constructively.
3. Hold Boundaries and Act, Don’t React
   • Choose to act based on long-term goals rather than immediate emotions.
   • Clearly communicate and hold boundaries without resorting to emotional outbursts.
   • Example: In a call center scenario, calmly assert that you can help the caller better if they communicate without yelling.
4. Think Long-Term
   • Shift from short-term emotional reactions to considering long-term consequences and goals.
   • Notice if you harbor resentment and address it proactively to prevent it from building up.
   • Example: Instead of quitting a job in a fit of anger, consider the long-term impact on your career and relationships.
5. Shift Specific Behaviors from Persecutor to Challenger Energy
   • Criticism and Blame: Offer constructive feedback and focus on solutions rather than criticism.
     • Example: Instead of saying, "You never help," suggest, "Let’s find a way to divide tasks more evenly."
   • Passive Aggressiveness: Communicate openly and assertively.
     • Example: Replace sarcastic comments about tardiness with a direct conversation about its impact on plans.
   • Control and Manipulation: Foster autonomy and collaboration.
     • Example: Delegate tasks with trust and check in regularly instead of micromanaging.
   • Playing the Martyr: Model self-care and mutual responsibility.
     • Example: Express your need for personal time and encourage balanced responsibilities for everyone.
   • Ultimatums and Threats: Set clear, respectful boundaries.
     • Example: Instead of issuing threats, clearly state the consequences of unmet needs and offer constructive alternatives.

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Transcript

0:17

Well, hello and welcome back. So today we are continuing our conversation on the drama triangle, as well as the empowerment dynamic. Last week, we talked about shifting victim energy to create our energy. And today we're going to be talking about persecutor and challenger energy. And then of course, next week, we'll be talking about rescuer coach energy. So make sure that you are subscribed here so that you can be educated on all three parts of the drama triangle. As well as the three parts of the empowerment dynamic. My goal for today is to really help you to see how persecutor energy might be showing up for you specifically. There's lots of ways that it shows up. But I find that for my listeners, it shows up in some very specific ways. So I'm helping to really convey that to you today. But before we dive in, I want to remind those of you that live in or around Northern Utah, that I am going to be presenting at the energy healing conference on June 28th at 11:00 AM. This is a two day event. This is the largest energy healing conference in the world, and it is taking place in Sandy, Utah. And guess what? I have some tickets to gift to my listeners. I have a limited number. So if you are interested in attending and you would like to come send me an email at maryann@maryannwalker.life and let me know this is$125 value. And it will give you two days of access to amazing speakers and vendors that are all experts in their field when it comes to health and wellness. My class is going to be specifically geared towards the empaths and the highly sensitive. My goal is to really help them to deepen their own personal sensitivity. And learn how to do so in a way that isn't draining as you know, something that I work with, a lot of people on is compassion, fatigue, and burnout. And there are some very simple things that you can do as someone who is highly sensitive to energy to protect your space and not get so burned out. So I'm really excited about that. And I'm super excited at the idea of possibly meeting you face to face. I know that when I need listeners, so often they tell me, oh, I just feel like we're best friends. And I love that so much. I feel like you are my friends too, but I also kind of feel like with the podcast is an interesting experience because it's basically me having a one-way conversation. And so I love meeting you and I love hearing your feedback on what has helped you and, and how we have conducted. I just love it. So I'm super looking forward to meeting those of you at the energy healing conference. I cannot wait. Okay, so now we're going to go ahead and jump into our discussion on persecutor energy and how we can transform that into challenger energy. This is a really interesting point in the triangle to talk about because honestly we really resist seeing this persecutor energy or this villain energy in ourselves. We're significantly more drawn towards the role of specifically the innocent victim, because let's be honest. We really like the self justification that comes from being the victim. We like feeling like it's not all our fault and that somebody else needs to change and that we're doing just fine. And if we're the victim of our circumstances and somebody else is the one to blame them, they're the ones that have to change. And that feels so much better than trying to self reflect and figure out how we need to create change. Right. It's that shifting of responsibility so that we don't have to put in any effort. It feels really good. We also really like the role of the rescuer. Because it just sounds nice. It doesn't that sound amazing to be the rescuer? But the thing with the rescuer energy is generally speaking with this population. They're jumping in to rescue before they've been asked and when it's not even necessarily needed. So then we become kind of upset when our form of help is not being received in the way that we would like. And then we become the persecutor of somebody else. Which is really what we're gonna be talking about today is how we kind of like to hide behind the mask of being the victim and make it everybody else's problem and kind of just reflect back to them that, okay. Yeah, this is your problem. And you just didn't receive me if only you would have done this. I ask for so little it's kind of the victim persecutor energy. So we're going to talk a bit more about how rescue or energy is going to be showing up for your next week. So I'll make sure you tune in for that. But for today, we're talking about that villain or persecutor energy and remember the villain and persecutor energy. It's part of the drama triangle. And that means it creates drama for us. Whereas the challenger energy, it helps us to stand in the light aspect rather than that shadow aspect. And if you'd like to learn more about the empowerment dynamic, check out the show notes. I do have a link to an amazing book called the power of Ted down in the show notes. And so Ted of course stands for the empowerment dynamic. It's an acronym. So you can click the link in the show notes to get your own copy. If you would like to dive deeper, it is a very short but powerful read. So if this series on the drama, triangle is resonating with you, I highly encourage you to grab a copy of that book so that you can stand in your own empowered energy as a conscious and creative coach for yourself, it is significantly more empowering. As we talk about the persecutor villain energy. I first want to talk about it in its overt form or the more obvious form. And then we'll talk about it in more of its covert form or the more sneaky ways that it shows up now for this population it's more subtle, it's more sneaky. It really takes a lot for someone listening here on the podcast to slide into those more obvious forms of persecutor energy, but it does happen. And when it does happen that we're sliding into that persecutor energy, generally speaking it's because we have an unmet need. And as we're able to slow it down and identify what our actual need is in the moment, then it can help us to transition from the drama triangle into that of the empowerment dynamic. So some of the more overt behaviors include yelling or shouting name calling. Driving aggressively, harassment. Coercion physical intimidation or aggressive gestures. It might look like blaming other people for mistakes or failures without taking any personal responsibility for our contribution to the conflict. Right. Everything is co-created, but the persecutor energy wants to make it somebody else's fault so that we can remain the innocent victim. It might also look like micromanaging or trying to control other people. Maybe it's imposing strict rules or demands on other people without really opening things up for discussion. It's retaliation against those that have challenged us. For example, maybe somebody gave us some constructive criticism. And rather than seeing how it might be true and creating those changes instead, we choose to play the victim card and make somebody else our villain or a persecutor, but then we are in fact choosing to step into that persecutor role ourselves. We're having to prove what a big fat jerk they are for giving us constructive criticism that we have chosen to interpret as a personal attack rather than constructive criticism. Right. So basically the overt forums really look like a lot of bullying behavior and it kind of really comes through that lens of emotional immaturity. So now let's talk a bit about the more covert ways that this shows up specifically for you, the listener, the helper, the healer, the highly sensitive person. It might show up a bit differently. As I said, it can show up in those big, loud and bold ways, but more than likely, it's going to show up in more subtle ways. This might look like passive aggressive comments or backhanded compliments. It's also really common for covert persecutors to use silent treatment or stonewalling as a form of punishment. And this is also a form of control, right? We're trying to create a response in somebody else. It's this persecutor energy where we're trying to pose as the victim so that somebody else will come back and rescue us. It might look like belittling other people specifically, if we didn't feel like we had a lot of input into what it was that they're creating. So if somebody is, for example, doing a presentation and you say, Hey, I'd love to help you with that and they say oh, no, thanks. I've got it. You might feel a little bit of resentment towards that. And so you might make comments like, okay, well, you know, sure. You did great, but it wasn't that big of a deal. I probably could have done what you did. Or maybe making comments like, well, don't let it go to your head. Sure. Yeah. You succeeded this time, but let's see you duplicate that success. That was probably just a fluke Or it might look like kicking somebody when they're down making comments like, well, I knew that that was going to happen or you should have listened to me, or I told you so, or, well, that's what you get. It can be a little bit passive, aggressive, a little bit more sneaky and subtle. And they're not necessarily raising their voice, but their comments can feel very cutting and belittling. Another really common way that this persecutor energy shows up is in the form of guilt or shame, because we love to play the guilt card. So this might look like making comments, like I do all of these amazing things for you, and this is the things that I get or, well, geez. I was just trying to help when our help isn't being received in the way that we would like, right. Or if we're not getting enough gratitude. It's a way of letting the other person know that we are the victim, but it's also persecuting them and making our feelings their fault. So it can be very subtle and it oftentimes in this population specifically looks like ping-ponging. Between being the accuser and the victim. But if it's coming from that accusatory place, then probably you're leading more with that persecutor energy. It might also look like really bold statements. Like you made me do this. You made me mad. You always do this. You never do this. You deserve this. But the key thing to remember about persecutor energy is that it wants to be right even more than it wants to be happy. And I have talked about this idea here on the podcast before, but I really want to emphasize it here through the lens of persecutor energy because wow. Is it strong here? So in the moment, we're probably not going to consciously know that we're wanting to be right. In fact, it's probably not going to be until after the fact that you have that aha moment, but as you're able to essentially shorten the gap between the experience and the realization of, oh, right then I was seeking to be right. Instead of actually seeking to discover truth. you can actually shorten that gap and have more peace in relationship. So some ways that being right, might be more important than being happy is let's say for example, somebody is coming to apologize and instead of receiving their apology, instead, we're saying, yeah, whatever. And another thing, remember when you did that thing. Instead, we want to drive home the point about how much they hurt us, rather than actually receiving that boy that must've taken a lot of humility for them to come to me and apologize, and I'm going to receive it instead. We want to prove that we are in the right and they are in the wrong. So, let me share a personal example with you. That happened with me in my own life. As I was studying the drama triangle. So I was having a conversation with my husband and I shared with him a situation that I was working through. And I shared with him my opinion about how I wanted to navigate things and what was happening in the situation. And then at the end, after I explained it all to him, I said, so what do you think. And then my husband proceeded to tell me what he thought about my situation. And as he started talking, I started to get really angry. I was thinking thoughts, like how dare he. Why isn't he seeing things my way, how dare he have that thought and belief around this situation? And I started to get angry. And I got a little bit vocal with them. And then let him know. Yeah. Hey, that's not really cool. You should be believing this way instead. And it was really interesting to see his response because I had been talking with him about the drama triangle as well. And so he was prepared for this, but it was interesting. He stopped me and he said, Hey. Mare. You asked me a question about my opinion. And then I answered your question. And then you got upset with me. And he just calmly reflected back to me through that challenger energy. That. Hey, I just answered your question and now you're coming at me, right? And him just asking that question free of persecutor energy, right. He had every right. To come back at me and say, Hey, you're such a jerk. I can't believe this. I just answered your question. He could have come back through the persecutor energy, but instead he came back through the challenger energy and just reflected back to me that, Hey, yeah, that didn't feel super good. And what's going on. And that gave me the opportunity to recover myself. Which I'm happy to say I did. So I told him, I said, oh, you know what, you're exactly right. I asked you a question and then you answered it. And I became upset. And now that I recognize that I'm able to better recognize that I asked you the wrong question. So, yeah, you did answer the question that I asked you. And now I realize because of how I'm feeling right now, that that's not the actual question that I wanted to ask you. I didn't want to know what you thought about the situation. I wanted to know. If you could understand how I felt about the situation, which is a completely different question. So then we were able to talk about that and he was able to acknowledge that. Yeah, I can't understand why you feel that way about the situation. And I was able to get my needs met, but if I had continued to escalate things, I would not have gotten my need met. Right. That's what happens with the drama triangle is most of the time. Yeah. There's an underlying need that has not been addressed yet. And we just need to acknowledge that need so that we can actually get our needs met. When we are in the drama triangle, accusing other people, especially through that persecutor energy it significantly decreases the odds that we're going to get our needs met. So slow it down. Check in with yourself, check in with your nervous system. See if you're feeling activated in that moment. If you're feeling activated, you might be in the drama triangle. Take a little moment to calm your nervous system down and identify what is my need. And am I acting in a way that is going to get that need met? Or am I acting in a way that's going to guarantee that I do not get that need met. And once you've identified your need, practice that more clear communication. As we can see from this experience with my husband, it only takes one person to recognize the drama triangle and choose to step out of it. And this can make a significant difference. So now let's look at a few things that challenger energy does. The challenger seeks what is right rather than who is right. The challenger energy, pushes people to grow and develop into their best and highest selves. challenger energy pokes holes in unsupportive, thoughts and beliefs, as well as black and white thinking. It challenges those thoughts that are holding us back. And it challenges our limiting beliefs, challenger energy increases self-awareness as well as self-empowerment. And it does so from a place of loving integrity, right? We're not in conflict with other people. And when we're at peace with self, we are more in alignment. We are more in integrity. So let's kind of do a little bit of a side-by-side comparison for the persecutor energy and the challenger energy. Persecutor energy accuses, challenger energy encourages. Persecutor energy looks for fault. challenger energy looks for what's possible. Persecutor energy intends to tear someone down, whereas challenger energy intends to build others up. Persecutor energy is driven by a need to be right. Challenger energy is driven by standing in your own integrity and helping others to do the same while you are discovering what is right. Persecutors force a specific outcome. Challengers encourage growth in whatever way it happens. Persecutor energy identifies a person or an individual as the problem. Whereas challenger energy identifies the situation as a problem, and it puts both parties on the same side of the line so that they can tackle the problem together rather than tackling each other. So to put it another way, persecutor energy draws a line in the sand and it makes it black and white right or wrong. Whereas challenger energy puts both parties on the same side of the line. Persecutor energy is controlling and challenger energy is curious. So asking questions to really deepen our own understanding and increase. Our awareness is an extremely powerful tool for shifting out of the drama triangle. And it doesn't matter which section you were in of the drama triangle. Curiosity can be very, very helpful, but it is especially helpful in that persecutor role because persecutor role energy really wants to simplify things and just make it black and white. And that can create more conflict, but opening it up for oh, where is the gray, what am I not seeing? Clearly, what things do I not know can be very helpful. So I have three tips for you today to help you to stand in your challenger energy, rather than persecutor energy. And the first tip is identify your actual need. So remember, persecutor energy shows up because we have an unmet need. So get really curious about what your underlying need is. Our brain has an internal safety mechanism that thinks if I can just control the situation, then I will be safe. And I won't experience any negative emotions. Persecutor energy says I need to control the situation. And then I can control my emotions. Whereas challenger energy says I am working to navigate my own emotions and I am in control of myself. I don't have to invest energy into controlling things are out of my control because guess what other people are always out of our control. Our brain is going to want to tell us that, oh, if I could just control how people drive, how they speak, how they chew their food. Then I will never experience a negative emotion. But we're actually creating a lot of negative emotion for ourselves when we do this because yeah, we can't control other people. So we're actually more uncomfortable trying to control other people than we are when we focus on just controlling ourselves and choosing to respond rather than react. And when we're able to respond, then we can make those clear communications to actually get our needs met. In the case of my conversation with my husband, I was wanting to feel seen. I was wanting to feel heard. I was wanting to feel understood. And that is a very human need, but the way I was going about getting those needs met through the persecutor energy, it was not going to get my needs met. Me having that righteous indignation and getting upset with him was not going to get my needs met. So when you notice that persecutor energy showing up, ask yourself, what is it that I'm truly seeking right now? Your primitive mind is going to tell you that you are seeking to control something or that you're seeking to get your way and be right. And it's going to have a very specific outcome in mind when it's wanting to be right. But when you're using that challenger energy, then it turns back on your prefrontal cortex. You're asking. Okay. But what is right? How can I challenge this belief that I must be right and ask instead of who is right, what is right. It can help to open that up. So ask those questions. Are you seeking to be understood? Are you seeking comfort? Are you seeking reassurance become really curious about what is the underlying need here? What is coming up for me? And that can help you to be more clear with yourself as well as other people so that you can get your actual need met. And just as a side note, sometimes our needs really are as simple as a toddlers, we might just need a snack or a hug or a nap. We need somebody to kiss it better. Right? Sometimes our needs are very, very basic, but when we're tired or hungry or otherwise not feeling well. Then those other energies in the drama triangle, they can be a lot easier to sneak in there. And then we're reacting, right. Instead of acting accordingly, we're now reactive. So just check in with yourself, see what your needs are, see what needs you can fulfill through yourself. And then if necessary, make a clear request of the other person to get those very basic needs met. All right. Number two, work on your own emotional intelligence and compassionate curiosity. Emotional immaturity says, Hey, they should just know what I need. And that is the persecutor energy, right? If we are shoulding on somebody else and thinking they should know better, they should know what I need. I shouldn't have to explain myself. I shouldn't have to ask for clarification. Then know that that is that persecutor energy coming in and that's going to create defensiveness for us. And also a little bit of that victim energy. Now when we're acting through the lens of emotional maturity and turning on our prefrontal cortex, then it helps us to see things through the lens of compassionate curiosity for everybody involved, both you and the other person. So this might look like actually acknowledging that maybe there's more to learn here so you can ask questions. Like, Hey, I wonder what's going on for me. I wonder what's going on for them. I think I need a little bit more information here. I wonder what questions I could ask right now to bring a little bit more clarity so that I can best know how to move forward from this. And this is compassionate curiosity. It's not accusatory. It's just getting more information from that place of love and assuming the best. I also just want to reassure you that having this compassionate curiosity and understanding why someone is behaving the way that they are, it still does not mean that you need to tolerate their mistreatment. And I want to share another personal story to just kind of help to illustrate this. I used to work at a call center in college. And I'll be honest with you. I hated it there. I was the person on the other end of the line when somebody's phone service was shut off. So they might pick up their phone and go to call their mom. But instead of it going through to their mom, they were rerouted to me, informing them that their service had been shut off and that a payment needed to be made. So people were not happy to hear my voice on the other end of the line. And they would often persecute me and I would be victimized by it, or they would turn me into their persecutor. Right. So they're super angry with me because their phone is off. And just as a side note, if you are a highly sensitive person, I highly recommend not working at a call center. I did not last very long there. But while I worked there, I did learn some techniques and how to get out of the drama triangle. So here's how it would go. Their call would be redirected to me. And when I picked up, they would yell and they would swear, and they had this belief that if they just yelled louder or used more curse words that magically their service would get turned back on. And I would have to work to remain very calm. If I was in a reactive state, I might want to yell back or hang up on them and have that call, go to somebody else. But I knew, okay, I'm going to be professional. I'm going to be calm. So I would let them get it out of their system for a bit. And then I would calmly tell them, Hey, I understand your frustration. Let's look at this together and see if we can get your service turned back on today. That is very different than the line in the sand. Right. I was able to put us both on the same side. So now I'm opting out of being their persecutor. I'm no longer their villain. They cannot make me their villain because I decided not to be, I am choosing to put us on the same side of the line and put the problem on the other side so that we can look at it together and see what might be needed in order to get their service turned on. So then by the end of the call, they were significantly more calm. Their services turned back on everybody's happy. And it was a very different experience than if I had decided to take the bait and buy into that drama triangle. Right. It would have been a very different experience so we can do the same thing. We can just decide that I'm not going to participate in the drama triangle. I see these roles. I see that when you're reacting through this point in the drama triangle, you're trying to trigger me to show up in this role and I'm just going to opt out. I'm going to put us on the same side, we're going to problem solve this together. It can really help to just step in that more empowered energy. All right. Number three. Think long-term now persecutor energy. It's really concerned with what is happening right now. It wants to see immediate results and boy, it can feel pretty good in the moment. It's like seeing that dynamite explode, we think, yes. I just got some amazing results. So this might be you getting cut off in traffic and then you decide to cut them off in return and it might feel great because you get the retaliation. It feels so empowering or maybe something happens at work and you decide to rage- quit. And it feels so good and so empowering, but then later maybe you get rear-ended after you cut that person off, then you get rear-ended and now you're not in a very good place. Right? Or when you rage quit, now, you can't use them as a referral for your next job because of how you left that job. So your primitive mind is going to look for what is going to feel best in the moment, but it's not thinking longterm. So take a moment again, to breathe, to check in, to calm your nervous system so that you can show up through that more empowered lens. Think about what this is going to be creating for you in the longterm. Now, one of the things that shows up pretty often in this population is resentment. Resentment is persecutor energy. If you are resenting someone, you might not even be telling them, but you are being someone else's persecutor because you are resenting them. You're sending energetic daggers towards them. Okay. So resentment is persecutor energy and we're going to be acting different ways through that resentment. So we. Might again, be doing the little snide comments or stonewalling different ways that this resentment is going to be showing up. But even resentment is because we have an underlying need. So maybe we're feeling resentful because it's an indicator that we need to set a boundary or that we need to communicate something. But notice that your resentment is your responsibility. Okay. It's not their responsibility to just know if we're feeling resentful and for them to come and fix it. You need to be able to communicate what is happening for you in order for you to get out of the drama triangle. Okay. So just recognize if you have that resentment coming in. recognize if you're thinking about what's going to feel so good if I explode in the moment versus thinking long-term, those can be indicators that you are experiencing that persecutor energy. Okay. So now I'm going to share with you five ways that persecutor energy might be showing up for you and how to shift it into challenger energy. So the first is criticism and blame. This is much like the resentment, right? Resentment is criticism and blame. So when we're experiencing criticism or blame than our tendency is to focus our frustrations outward. We want everybody else to fix it. So we're being a persecutor, but we're also choosing to be in victim hood because we're not being proactive about it. Focus on solutions and positive reinforcement rather than those criticisms. Okay. Actually address the issue, focus on K, what is the next step needed in order to resolve this issue and step into that challenger energy, challenge the situation rather than challenging the individual. So for example, instead of saying, you never helped me with these tasks, then you could show up instead through challenger energy by saying something like, hey, can we talk about how we could divide these tasks more evenly? It's addressing the issue rather than making it about the person. All right. Number two, passive aggression. Notice if you're being passive aggressive, if you're making those tiny comments, if you're just moving little things around the house in a passive aggressive way or kind of stomping through the house, slamming cupboards, then notice that, okay, this is some persecutor energy. I am persecuting this person and shift that into something that is more constructive. Work to communicate openly and assertively and address the issues directly and calmly. And that will help you to just nurture that clear and more honest communication. So, for example, instead of making sarcastic comments, when a friend is late, then instead, then you might say, Hey, when you're late, it really affects our plans. Can we talk about a way to navigate this moving forward? It's addressing the issue head on instead of making these passive aggressive comments, just hoping your friend is going to pick up on the fact that you were feeling irritated. Your irritation is your issue, but keep you two on the same side of the line by addressing the issue, the tardiness, rather than making it about, Hey, you're always late. You always ruin this. It feels more accusatory and you're being the persecutor. Versus when you're actually just addressing the issue, then you're just challenging behaviors. All right. Number three, control and manipulation now control and manipulation. It's really about external validation. It's thinking if I can control everything outside of me, then I will feel good inside of me. But the things outside of us are outside of our control. It's like trying to control the weather when we're trying to control another person, we don't know what's going on for them. Right. So you're really going to be creating more discover for yourself, trying to control other people. And when we make our own happiness, conditional upon other people and external things, then it's more likely that we're going to be experiencing those feelings of resentment and distrust. Because we're fooling ourselves into thinking that we can have any control over them or that they should show up in different ways. So then when they don't, then we are even more resentful and more upset. So we can shift this instead into challenger energy by encouraging autonomy and collaboration. So this might look like instead of micromanaging your team on a work project, that instead you just delegate out specific tasks and say, Hey, I trust your judgment on this. Right. It's empowering the individuals. And you may even follow up with. And let's check in regularly to make sure that we're on the same page. But it's going to allow the individuals to just show up in the way that they're going to show up. It's a bit more clear. It's a bit more direct. It's not passive aggressive. And it's more about empowering individuals, both empowering you and empowering other people. By allowing people to learn and to grow and to do things in their own way. And this helps to create a win-win situation. Okay. It's not micromanaging. It's collaboration. All right. Number four, playing the martyr. Now, this is when we use guilt and shame to manipulate others into recognizing our sacrifices or meeting our needs. So for example, maybe we're saying I'm just so tired and I do so much for other people and nobody's taking care of me and it sounds like we're being a victim, but we're saying it trying to trigger that rescue and other people and where essentially accusing other people of not fulfilling our needs and have not. Reciprocating, but we're also not being clear with what it is that we want. So maybe instead of saying, I always do everything for everybody else, which is intended to create guilt and trigger the rescue or response in others. Then instead we could say, Hey, I notice I'm feeling burned out. I'm going to take some time for me today, the end, it's you being proactive about what is in your control. If you were feeling burned out and you need a break, maybe stop saying yes to everything and take a break, right? It's up to you to create that space. They're not just going to magically know that. And number five, ultimatums and threats. Now, again, this one is about control when we are feeling powerless then oftentimes we'll tend to use ultimatums or threats to get people to do what it is that we want to do. But again, we cannot control other people. So to shift us in a challenger energy, then we can set clear and respectful boundaries that allows everybody to do what they're going to do. So, for example, instead of saying, Hey, if you don't do it this way, then I'm going to quit. That's a lot of persecutor energy. Then instead you could use an if then statement. So you might say, Hey, I need to see some changes in how we handle this. Or I'm going to have to reconsider my role here. It's nonthreatening it's stating your boundary rather than making a threat. They're still free to do the project. However they want to do it, but you have made it clear that I need to see some changes or I'm going to choose to do this. If you've been listening here on the podcast for any amount of time. You know that a true boundary is not, you must do this, right. That's about controlling other people, but instead of true, boundary is an if then statement. And it lets go of the idea that we need to control other people. All right. So with challenger energy, we can challenge our thinking. We can challenge our limiting beliefs. We can challenge it when we start to wonder why we are failing. And instead we might ask, Hey, how my I succeed at this task deep down. We really do all want to feel safe and heard and seen and understood. So remind yourself before you're going into an interaction. Okay. What is it that I really truly need right now? What are my needs? What are my wants? And how can I act accordingly in order to get those needs met? That's going to be approaching things through that challenge or energy, rather than that persecutor energy that just wants to prove itself. Right. It is possible to step out of the drama and make the empowerment dynamic a part of your default setting. Right. That's what we all want to do is to be able to stand in that empowered energy. Proactively choose who it is that you want to become and continue to love yourself where you're at. And continue to challengerself to be a little bit better every single day. So as always, if you would like a little bit more help and support, if you notice that you are maybe stuck in the drama triangle, or you tend to be associating with a lot of people that are in the drama triangle, and you want to stay free of that, come and work with me. I would love to work with you. You can apply to work with me by going to Marianne walker.life. Right now I'm offering six week packages. My clients are always coming and going. So apply to work with me now. And I'll let you know when I can sneak you in. All right. I'm looking forward to wrapping up the series next week, as we talk about the rescuer and white Knight energy. So make sure that you are subscribed and so that you can come back then. And now I hope you have a great week and let's talk soon. Bye now.