A Call To Leadership

EP138: Magnetic Influence, Mastering Referent Power in Leadership

• Dr. Nate Salah

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We're embarking on the 5th installment of the captivating Finish Strong Friday series, where we delve into an extraordinary ability to influence others. Join us as we uncover the essence of referent power and its profound impact on leadership. Unlock your untapped potential, and don't miss out on gaining a comprehensive understanding of this highly esteemed power as you tune in to this episode!

Key Takeaways To Listen For

  • Definition of referent power and its distinguishing factors from other forms of power
  • Dr. Nate’s personal encounter with a strong referent power
  • Characteristics of an exemplary individual and questions to enhance your referent power
  • How to use confidence as the fundamental basis for referent power 
  • Advantages of being able to exhibit affability, self-regulation, and self-awareness as leaders


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[00:00:00] Dr. Nate Salah
When you walk in confidence, you are assured that you can accomplish what's necessary to progress your worthy cause. You see, this is how referent power begins to develop. Hello my friend, and welcome to this Friday episode of A Call to Leadership. I'm Dr. Nate Salah, your host. I'm so glad you are here every Friday we work on one tool for your leadership tool belt, and this Friday we have something very special for you as we continue our journey on what power is, how it manifests itself in leadership, and so important the conversation around power because we can sometimes just mess up our understanding of how power produces influence and how leadership can be said to be the capacity to leverage that influence in action.

[00:00:50]
In fact, one of my colleagues years ago said that in the academic realm, Dr. Justin Guiney, and I've held onto that cuz it's so relevant, so. Impactful. What a way to describe how we understand leadership from the power perspective. And if you haven't listened to the first several episodes, four of them so far on this series on power, I suggest you go back and listen. You don't have to do it right away. You can listen to this episode first because we're talking about one area of power today that I find to be one of the most effective. Forms of power, but it's one of the most difficult forms of power to cultivate, and it's based around the affability of a person. The likability.

[00:01:37]
The admiration. It's called referent power. And it's an interesting word, referent, right? What does that mean, reference? Well, the thing about referent power is this. It's not something that you can just wield as you would the power of punishment. It's not so easy as the power of reward. Of course, expertise takes time to cultivate. Yes. But this expertise can be one specific area that you cultivate year after year after year. The power of affability or the power of modeling as well, we'd like to say. We'd like to say that the power of your ability for people to be attracted to you, to want to emulate your behavior, to want to follow you because of who you are on the inside.

[00:02:25]
Your character, your ethos, because they believe in you. Because your inspiration brings them to a new place. A place where they have a desire to achieve far greater than they ever thought possible without you. You see my friend. That's why reference power is not the easiest power base, right? But when we develop a power, Of the reference or the power of affability, the power where people truly respect and desire to want to be like us. That is a power base that has far reaching implications. I'll tell you a story and how this manifests itself personally, and we'll talk a little bit about it from a general sense, a business sense and economic and political. When I was 16 years old, I was the kind of person who, I was very rebellious.

[00:03:25]
Let's just say I hated authority. I was a hard head to my own detriment really. I had a chip on my shoulder and no one could ever tell me what to do. And my mom, God bless her, she tried and tried. I was troubled. And when I was 16 years old, I said, mom, I'm moving out. I'm going to live my buddy. My buddy Derek, because my buddy Derek, I dunno if you had this when you were growing up, but it seems like many people have a buddy who's got the party house. My buddy Derek had the party house and so you'd go over there, you'd play spades back in the day. We played spades a lot. I thought I was pretty good at it and uh, I did cheat. Let's just call it out. And so I was only 16. Most of the guys, they were drinking, getting high Now. I didn't drink and I didn't smoke.

[00:04:16]
I stayed away from that stuff because I just was disciplined enough to know that this is just junk and it was going to end up. I saw my friends do just really dumb stuff and I was doing already enough dumb stuff. I didn't need any more help, so I didn't do any of that, but I played cards. I hung out with the guys and I thought, I'm leaving. I'm moving out. And my mom thought I was serious about it, and I didn't even know if I could legally at that point, maybe I couldn't, but she didn't know either. So my cousin comes over who was five years older than me, still is, and starts talking to me about the future, and he says, cousin, man, I don't know if you should do this because you may have better opportunity later if you don't, in fact, just hold out until you're 18.

[00:05:01]
We can get a place together. Hold out a couple more years, I'll move in with you. As much as no one could convince me to go a different route than the route I wanted, I had such admiration for my cousin. I wanted to model him. I thought his life, his trajectory, his demeanor, his ethos, his behavior, his trustworthiness was admirable and I believed him and it influenced me to stop that trajectory. I. Because of his affability, because of his referent power, because he had empathy for my situation. He knew that I was in a very tough spot. He cared to step and stand in the gap and to take a risk on me, friend, make a sacrifice for me because man, I probably wasn't gonna be the best roommate. But he did that because he cared.

[00:05:52]
And I responded in kind because I knew he cared, and I knew that he had my best for his desired goal in this endeavor. So what did I do? I shelved it. Now in hindsight, man, it was probably one of the best decisions I could have ever made. I love my buddy Derek. We lost touch a long time ago, but so many difficult poor decisions were made in that apartment. You ever been around people to where you're like, oof. If I hang around these people in this context for long enough, I'm gonna be in serious trouble. This is not going to go well. That happened. There were fights, there were gunfights blood on all the walls. I mean, you know, it was just a bad place to be and the only way to really deal with that wasn't gonna be someone's expertise, wasn't me punishment power because I was 16, I would've just run away. It wasn't reward because there was no real reward that was going to satisfy me enough to deal with a lot of the pain and heartache that I was dealing with in that environment. There was no legitimate power. The power of my mom's authority was irrelevant. It took someone, it took someone who cared deeply for me, who I respected tremendously, to do that now.

[00:07:13]
Did he make good on his promise? Indeed, he did, because people with referent power, people who you desire to model because they are trustworthy, follow through, they follow through. These are some of the hallmarks. These are some of the ways that we understand how to cultivate this power base starts with integrity. Do I have integrity? Am I whole? You've heard me talk about this on the show before. If you've listened in, it's a foundation. Do I care? Do I have empathy? You've heard me talk about servant leadership. You've heard me talk about empathy. Do I have a desired care for the individuals who I am called to lead?

[00:07:53]
Do I have vision for a shared future that's better than the current one? Have I shared that vision now? Can I articulate it in ways that are compelling? Do I inspire? Those are questions we have to ask as we develop the referent power. Now you might say, Nate, some of those things I have cultivated. Yes. Some of those things I still have room to grow. That's okay. Because the deal with referent power is that it's not conferred. You can't give it away. Even difficult to teach as I share this with you, it's difficult to teach because sometimes saying things, you may have heard this, things are better caught than taught. What that means in this context, Is that you must be around people who you desire to emulate, who have referent power, whether it's from afar, through a podcast, through a a television show. There was a television show I used to watch years ago called Highway to Heaven, Michael Landon. He's passed away now.

[00:08:54]
If you've ever watched that show, it was so endearing because the main character, Michael Landon, was an angel who was on this planet. And he was going around doing God's work, doing good. And I thought, man, I love that character because he was so not me. He was calm, he was thoughtful, he was compassionate, he was empathetic. He put others before himself, basically. All the things that I was not, he might say today, Nate, you say Nate, that's difficult to believe. It's true. I mean, I was, none of those things when I was watching that program, I was self-centered. I was egotistical, I was arrogant. I was a hothead, I was impulsive. And I'm not saying that the show or that character in the show made it a 180 for me in my life, but it influenced me to say, you know, there's other ways that are attractive to lead.

[00:09:54]
It took years and years and years. In fact, when I first met my wife, she said, you're not very empathetic, and I wasn't. But through watching her empathy, deep empathy and learning from her, I began to understand how to genuinely and sincerely behold that virtue, that principle, and start to emulate it in my own life and utilize it. You see, friends, sometimes it just takes time to develop. Affability to develop the kind of attraction that's based on someone's true desire to model you because of your own ability to push progress forward through care, through devotion, through consistency, through commitment, through clarity of vision. Through shared values and purpose through a demeanor that has the component of both a fierce will and a personal humility, what Jim Collins calls the level five leader with meekness, not weakness, but meekness. What? What is meekness? Meekness is power under control means that you're not threatened, you're undaunted when things don't threaten you anymore.

[00:11:17]
You don't have to wield your sword. You simply act in a way that is confident and not arrogant, cuz confidence is an assurance. Arrogance is an inflated sense of one's own importance, much different. So when you walk in confidence, you are assured that you can accomplish what's necessary. Two progress. Your worthy Cause. You see, this is how referent power begins to develop. So if you have not yet explored this power base, recognize this. It takes patience, it takes time. And there are days where perhaps my referent power is not as strong as other days. That's okay. Some days I need a reminder, man. Some days I get pushed. I was at the DMV just recently just hearing the DMV, the Department of Motor Vehicles, and, uh, Man, what a day. I had forgotten some paperwork that the clerk was clearly not happy about me having to register five cars all at once on a Friday, and I came back with the paperwork. The clerk said, just come see me.

[00:12:26]
Clerk just disappears after seeing someone else. Doesn't even acknowledge me. Jesus disappears in the back, sees me there. I'm waiting, waiting, waiting. And I'm like my frustration level is rising because like my day. Is just dissipating, right? Highly inefficient day. And it's a test. I'm being tested. I ask, you know, I was like, God, okay, I guess you're testing my patience and my kindness today, and two aspects, by the way, that are important in referent power. And so I went back, I took a ticket and I thought if I see a different person, then I will be happy. So the, another person had an empty line. They were getting ready to call my number, and lo and behold, the clerk who I was having an issue with comes out and calls my number. So what do I do? Compose myself.

[00:13:22]
Maybe this guy's having a bad day. Maybe is looking at like, you came in, you didn't have all your paperwork. You perhaps are not kind to me. Maybe you're frustrated too. I had to look at myself. So I went up to the counter. I was kind, gave him all the paperwork. We were amicable and uh, I thanked him. I didn't have an attitude. He took care of everything for me diligently, appropriately, and I'm thankful for that. You see my friend, some days our power base will be tested whether or not we can effectively influence. There was one of my documents that wasn't exactly right. He actually went out of his way to reprint the document for me. Had I not exhibited some aspect of affability, it's quite likely he would've just sent me away and said, you don't have the right paperwork. Come back another day. As we progress, as leaders, it's so important to recognize how we interact with others, how they view us. Our self-regulation and our self-awareness are essential.

[00:14:27]
To how we understand how to compel people, if you will, to want to join us in a shared purpose, not from the position of punishment, not from the position of reward, not from the position of our title, not as an expert in the field. Those are all important social bases of power. However, the referent power, the one that develops through how people see you as a person of genuine and sincere desire to see the best for me and in me. And you're willing to take those steps just like my cousin did. How many, many moons ago, right? 34 years ago. I remembered it like it's today. And I'm still thankful and I learned from him. So today, who is it that you can learn from? Who in your camp possesses this kind of power that they translate into influence through leadership. Perhaps it's someone who you've seen I talk a lot about different people on this program. Martin Luther King, Jr. Of course. Tremendous referent power, cared deeply to the point where he was willing. To give up the most valuable thing his own life, and he did for the cause, the worthy cause of liberty equality, which is still being fought for unless you live under Iraq.

[00:15:54]
You've probably heard of Oprah Winfrey, right? Tremendous following, deep caring for people. Lots and lots of examples and stories of how she's taking care of people around her. These are examples. Just a couple. Of individuals who hold deep referent power and they're able to push humanity forward in their small sphere. Sometimes their larger sphere, sometimes it's a parent. If you're a parent, sometimes it's difficult. I try so hard as a parent to stay focused, to stay intentional about developing referent power. Even through the tough times, even just today, my son texted me a bunch of times about a code that was coming in and the code came in about six or seven times, different codes, and he's like, dad, I'm sorry.

[00:16:40]
I gotta send this code through again. No problem. Here's the new code. I'm not going to scold you. It's okay. We can get through this. I want him to know that I'm not going to be the person who will lose his patience, simply because it's inconvenient. One day I'll be old. I gotta hedge my bets, right? He'll be taking care of me, and I don't wanna be inconvenient for my son. I wanna teach him to make sacrifices to think of others before himself, to love well, to live well, to give well, and hopefully it'll help him to sleep well. This idea of referent power friend is so important, so impactful. Don't forget it. Don't just turn the podcast off and say, that's it for today. Utilize it. Begin to think of my day and how I can have that sense of vision, that sense of values, that sense of purpose and caring, empathy in the most difficult times. When you're tested, pass the test. When someone cuts you off on the highway wave. When someone tells you you're number one on the highway, apologize.

[00:17:56]
You say, Nate, that's just not me. I can't do that. Take the word can't outta your vocabulary. There's so much you can do because you're not threatened. Remember, you have nothing to lose because you are secure in yourself. You are secure in your faith, you're secure in your life. You're secure in your walk. So you can walk in meekness, not weakness, but power under control. Sheathed swords. As Dr. Peterson says, you have the power to influence in great ways, and today is one of those days. Well, my friend, I am so thrilled that you join me on this episode of A Call to Leadership, and before you go to the next episode, especially if you're binge-listing, take a moment. I would love to get your honest review right here on your screen. Your feedback is so important. It helps the podcast, it encourages me and it helps me. It helps me to give you more and more and more value, so I can't wait to read your review. I can't wait to be with you on the next episode. I'm Dr. Nate Salah. This is A Call to Leadership.

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