A Call To Leadership

EP200: Entrepreneur Ego Check, Stagnate or Scale with Travis Revelle

• Travis Revelle

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Change can be intimidating, but the true fear lies in remaining stagnant in life. Transform your entrepreneurial endeavors as we welcome Travis Revelle back for an insightful conversation about keeping your ego in check and how it can contribute to scaling your business. Press play now to learn more.



Key Takeaways To Listen For

  • Pros and cons of the ego in scaling your business
  • Factors affecting an individual’s resistance to change
  • Key element you must prioritize when making business decisions
  • Why entrepreneurs must plan for long-term goals
  • A strategic way to set up a process for your future plans



Resources Mentioned In This Episode



About Travis Revelle

Former corporate executive Travis Revelle switched to entrepreneurship in the internet and healthcare sectors, founding many successful businesses and raising hundreds of millions of dollars for his clients.



Connect with Travis
LinkedIn: Travis Revelle



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[00:00:00] Dr. Nate Salah
Hello, my friend, and welcome to this episode of A Call to Leadership. I'm Dr. Nate Salah, your host, and I'm so glad you are here on this episode of the show. We are going to talk about one of the massive issues entrepreneurs face. Believe it or not, it's an ego, even though some argue an ego is necessary. It can blind us from scaling appropriately. It can cause us to stagnate when we don't understand our own individual leadership limitations and the necessity and need to bring. people on around us who can help us to go further and higher than we can do on our own. I've invited Travis Revelle back on this show to help me unpack this for you. Can't wait for you to listen in. I'm Dr. Nate Salah. This is A Call to Leadership. Travis. What's going on Nate? What's up? Good to see you man. Good to see you. Happy Holidays. You know, at the recording of this episode, we are embarking on a new year just in a few days, and it's time to do a little introspection.

[00:01:02]
Entrepreneurs need to hear about where they need to go and what they need to do. You've worked with a lot of entrepreneurs. I have. One of the topics that comes up, in fact, I was just reading a book, I'd just given a book to my son for Christmas to read, light reading, 16 years old. John Maxwell's 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership. It's a good book. Great book, right? Yeah, it's a great book. And he introduces this. concept in the first law called the law of the lid and essentially it's an individual's ability to lead effectively is limited by their level of ability in their leadership. So John Maxwell's approach then says everyone has a lid and we can face challenges in this lid if we are not aware of how to bring people into the fold who can help us who have a different lid. Have you found that entrepreneurs in your years of working with companies? It doesn't have to even be entrepreneur. It could be c suite levels different levels Have been aware of their lid very few. 

[00:02:01] Travis Revelle
Yeah, I think a lot of that goes to An individual's ego, which if you really think about high-performing Business people, right? Whether you're an entrepreneur, you're a C suite, it's kind of a double-edged sword. You need an ego or you would never be in that position anyway, right? Like at some point you're sitting there and you're saying. I can run this fortune hundred company or I can do X, Y, and Z and start my own company better than everybody else in the world, right? So you need to have an ego to get to that position. But I think what happens is you get into this kind of feedback loop, right? Where you've been successful, you start to come into a challenge and you really don't know how to do it. So what do you do? You go back to kind of your base psychology. And you're like, I can do it, right? I can do it. I can handle that. Unfortunately, what happens is you can only scale so much with one individual. And then you can only scale so much with two people and then three people, right? There's a limit. And I think what happens is entrepreneurs, they may spend years or sometimes decades Stagnant because they haven't recognized that it's not all these other issues that are stopping them from being successful. It's actually themselves that are stopping them from being successful. Brilliant. 

[00:03:15] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. And Maxwell used McDonald's Brothers as an example in his book. And the McDonald's Brothers were pretty successful in their hamburger stands that they had in California. And they were making some decent money. And that's the other thing is that you get to a point of success. As an entrepreneur where you're comfortable, your bills are paid, you can buy some stuff, you can take the kind of vacations you want, you can eat where you want. But then what? That's as far as I can take this. And that's as far as the McDonald's brothers could take it. And then enter Ray Kroc. A lot of people saw the movie, The Founder, which popularized the story and kind of painted Ray Kroc to be the antagonist. And of course, that's the movies. I'm sure there's some things that Ray Kroc did that are questionable. Nonetheless, it really doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of. What could the McDonald's brothers have done with this brand versus what Ray Kroc did? Mm hmm. And he took it global. 

[00:04:06] Travis Revelle
Aren't they the largest real estate holder in the world?

[00:04:08] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. Yeah. Another brilliant strategy, right? The McDonald's brothers could never have not come up with that strategy because it wasn't their ability. It wasn't their genius zone. It wasn't their genius. And so someone listening needs to be hearing about this because this we're going into a new year and they want to scale but they need a Ray Kroc. Mm hmm. And there's lots of, hey look, every one of us has a lid. I have a lit. You have a lit. Yeah. And lots of reasons to do that. But there's lots of reasons why people don't pick up a Ray Kroc. One of them, there's, I'm just going to read these. One is a lack of leadership skills in order to bring that Ray Kroc on. Ineffective communication. Three, I want to talk about this one though. Resistance to change. How resistant to change are some leaders?

[00:04:49] Travis Revelle
Extraordinary. And it goes back to what they've done in the past got them to where they are. And that is what they hold on to, right? I've built this company and I've sat down with lots of entrepreneurs, right? And especially if I was trying to like pitch my consulting services to them. And it's, well, I've, I've done X, Y, and Z, and it's got me here. I'm pretty successful. So why do I need to spend the amount of money that you cost. What does that look like? Right? And a lot of it is just having conversations saying, look, I'm going to change things because they need to be changed. Right? And so the question you have to ask yourself is, do you want to do it your way and continue with the same results that you currently have? Or do you want different results? And if you want different results, right, that person that you just described, if they're happy and that's what they want to do with their company and they can pay the bills and they can take the vacation and.

[00:05:39]
Cool. Because not everybody has this desire to scale. However, if you go back when that person started that company, their vision and their dreams for their company were probably larger than what they were at today, right? But it's a challenge because you're telling somebody who has basically raised this baby that is this business. Right. That you did a great job. However, if you want your kid to go to Harvard, we have to do something different. Right. And maybe not Harvard nowadays. Right. Maybe not Harvard nowadays, but maybe a different school. Right. But I think it's imperative. The first thing that has to happen is leaders and entrepreneurs need to have gut checks, right?

[00:06:18]
You need to have that hard look in the mirror and be able to look at yourself and say, this is what I'm good at. This is what I'm not good at. And once you make that determination, then it's simply fire yourself from the things that you're not good at. Because that's straggling you down, right? It's probably causing you additional stress. You're not great at it, so it's probably not getting done effectively. It's like me with accounting. Right? I don't like to do accounting. So what do I do? I hire somebody who is an accountant, who is professional, who can do that for me. That frees up my time that I would need to allocate to sit and do spreadsheets and accounting. And now I can spend that time doing the things that I'm good at and that I enjoy. 

[00:07:00] Dr. Nate Salah
Well said fear, complacency, a reluctance to move out of a comfort zone. Those are all characteristics of what you're describing. And I'm glad you brought up the piece of what got you there. Won't get you there because it's tough sometimes. I mean, I think about myself to invest. In that next tier of individual who is at that level who's going to be the most air quotes expensive asset in my organization, but to reframe it into no, no, no, it's an investment in the growth of my organization and it's stuff because you're a lot of things are happening here.

[00:07:39]
One, you're letting go of control to you're also letting go of capital. Three, you're letting go of the Possibility that you may end up in a worse position than you are today. But at the same time, you're preparing for a better future and you haven't seen this, but this was the very next item on this list here of why people have trouble with this whole idea of The lid and letting go, uh, is limited delegation and trust because we know that scaling a business, it requires empowering people and trusting others with these responsibilities. But a lot of entrepreneurs, they struggle, they struggle in this area, delegate. Sometimes they still think they can do things better. And it's not until you step into that position and they see, wow, hold on a second. I'm actually pretty woefully inadequate. 

[00:08:32] Travis Revelle
It's a minimum of 90 days and depending on the position, it could be six months before, you know, kind of have that epiphany. Um, but you're exactly right. Right. Um, I mean, entrepreneurs by default think they can do things better. And I also think that there's the fear aspect of that is they've probably screwed some stuff up and they're embarrassed. Right. And so they don't want people to know that maybe they're not quite as smart as they have. Portrayed themselves to be, everything you're saying comes back down to ego. How we view ourselves and how we want the world to view us. And I think, right, like as an entrepreneur, there definitely needs to be some ego, but I will go back to my default, right? The most important thing when you become an entrepreneur is not yourself. It's the company that you have just created, right? And so the decisions that you make need to better. The organization and if that comes at a slight inconvenience for you. You've signed up to do this right? Like you've signed up to grow this company and to build something Everybody wants to have a legacy. Everybody wants to build it to sell it, right? Whatever your focus is and so I think right like entrepreneurs need to continue to revisit that Original vision that they had for their company and hold true to that. 

[00:09:54] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah, you said something that was resonated in terms of the relationship a person has with the business this baby and this baby starts to grow up and there comes a point where you cannot hope to take your baby to the next level without help. Just like a real child. My kid's 16 now. Like there's things that I want to integrate other people who I think are going to be impactful in my son's life because I have a lid. And so I want him to seek other mentors and be a part of that process of his growth. And I want to be able to invest in that. Another thing that you'd mentioned about the income and the safety and security. I believe approaching this idea of investing in others for the scale model, you were able to live on X dollars before you made more money.

[00:10:41]
Take some of that and simply, you know, reinvested in people, people at some point in the relationship with the business. Once your operations are set, once you have all of your company needs in place in terms of operational capital necessary to fund marketing and equipment and so on. Your most important investment is going to be people and A players at that level. Don't look at it like you're spending money. It's truly an investment. I've had to do the same thing. Great people. Expensive. Are expensive.

[00:11:09] Travis Revelle
That's why they're great. You get what you pay for. 

[00:11:13] Dr. Nate Salah
However, as you said, there is such a release when you have an A player in a place. Like, I don't ever want to bring anyone on ever again who can do what I do better than me. That I can do what they do better than them. Like, now it's exciting for me. Now it's like, okay, well, I've made a little bit more money. I'm not going to go out and buy more cool stuff. Maybe a little bit. Mm hmm. Yeah. You're buying cool stuff. But I'm going to take that extra margin and I'm going to earmark it for that next layer of individual. And here's another thing you mentioned, because this type, this flows into number six, which is insufficient strategic planning. A lot of entrepreneurs don't strategically plan. You must have a clear strategy on what your ROI is on people. So this is something you can do internally. You do it with an accounting team, but you have to do it. I know for every new person I bring on. That's not necessarily on the cost basis side. In other words, that's not in the administrative role, but in the generation of revenue role. I know what my ROI is on that individual. So if I run a 40 or 50 percent margin, then I know that for every dollar I invest in an A player, I'm going to double it.

[00:12:24]
It's real simple math at that point. Yeah. Right when they're at full scale. Absolutely. So why wouldn't I? Want to invest another 100 or 200 or a million dollars in great people or 10 million dollars Whatever that looks like over the capacity But you're never going to know that unless you do the heavy lifting on the streets planning. You'll never have direction You'll never have clear goals You'll never have the motivation for the resource allocation and you need to do that. And a lot of someone listening right now is like, no, I haven't done it yet. It's 2024. 

[00:12:52] Travis Revelle
And I also think, right? Like, I mean, entrepreneurs, like we wear so many multiple hats and I swear, you know, a lot of times it feels like, especially when you're a single person, entrepreneur, or maybe you've got, you know, like an admin person, but you know, it's basically two or three people. I always call it like you're a fireman. You're just putting out fires all day. Right. And that's not fun for anybody. Right. And you get caught again in this kind of. Loop right where you like put out this fire then I need to go put out this fire And entrepreneurs don't take the time to sit down and really plan, right? It's just they're reactive. They're just reactive right? It's coming at me. It's reactive. It's reactive It's reactive and you have to do that right to be successful. You have to take some time and say look, Here's where I want to be Five years from now. So this is an interesting story, right? My current position, I'm the COO of a company called Unwired Products, the largest fiber sales company in the United States, right?

[00:13:45]
So one of the companies that we work with, all these companies get a ton of money from private equity, right? Private equity has really come into the internet space. And they have a five-year plan. Every year, They update that five year plan so they know five years from now, this is where we want to be. And they're making decisions today to follow that trajectory that they have set. And every year they do that. And so at unwired, we are 2024. is a year of massive planning for us. We've had huge growth over the past three years. I mean, I don't even know the percentages would be tens of thousands of percent growth, right? I mean, it's insane. Um, but we have been very kind of reactive to the market, to our providers, right? And we've decided, right, like this is the year. That we're going to begin because it doesn't just happen, right? I mean, this is a change in mindset, right? It's like turning the titanic, right? It doesn't just happen on a dime, right?

[00:14:41]
Like it takes time But you've got to pick a time to start you've got to hold yourself to it So 2024 is a year where we're looking out And saying, okay, if the companies we do business with have five year plans and we are a part of their five year plans, right, we are a major part. We represent sometimes 80 to 90 percent of overall sales that come into these organizations. We also need to have a five year plan, right? That we understand where our providers are going. So we know where we need to go to continue to meet the needs of them. But also what are additional parts of our business that we need to add? Okay. To be a complete company, right? And so this is something that we're going through now I'm doing right now with our company and it is a complete mindset change, right?

[00:15:25]
So there are partners that are like, yes. No, this is awesome. And then there are partners that are like, whoa, we're successful Why are we changing things? Like why do we need to change things? And it comes back to really kind of the simple phrase. It's adapt or die Right Like, I mean, that's life adapt or die. Right. And we may be on top today, but if we aren't continually focused on where we want to be and how do you operationalize that goal,  you will die. 

[00:15:53] Dr. Nate Salah
You will die. And someone listening is like five years is a long time. Well, five years is coming. And so you must. Who else is planning like that? Look at Elon Musk. I mean, he's planned for like a thousand years. Yeah. He just wants to colonize the universe. Right. The part of the beauty of that is the five-year planning is it gives you enough of a window to peer into the future on what you see is coming without being completely ambiguous. Because five years is not a tremendous amount of time. At the same time, it sets the tone for the organization. It gives an idea of a future state that's attractive, that's worthwhile, that is achievable, but it's still a stretch. It binds everyone's combined effort to one single strategy and goal. And it keeps you from being blind to what is inevitably going to come down the pike. Yeah. What are the relationships that are necessary to get there? Who are the people we need? What is the capital expenditure? What markets do we need to be in? What do we need to stop doing today? All of that. 

[00:16:56] Travis Revelle
Well, and I think a simple exercise for people is to, you know, five years is a long time. And, you know, maybe you're in an organization that I think about my wife, for example, right? She's in medical sales and there are government changes that could occur within those five years that nobody knows about. Right. And so it's very hard to say, how would I react to this? But easily could do a one year plan and start there. Right. And I think what's important is. The longer you go out, the more bodacious, the bigger your dreams can be, right? So you can say in five years, I want to be doing a million dollars in revenue. Okay. So what does that look like? Right. How do I get to a million dollars of revenue in five years? But if that's too much say, okay, this year I want to do a hundred thousand, right? So that's 8, 000 and some change a month.

[00:17:40]
Right. That's 2, 000 a week. Right. What is that a day? Right. And how am I going to get to that? Right. What is my plans in place for me to achieve that daily number that I need to hit for me to trend out to hit that number? And inevitably, if an entrepreneur sat down and really did that, they would notice that they need help to get there, right? They're not going to be able to do 5, 000, you know, sales calls a week. Plus, you know, all the admin work, but what it would do is it will show you where you're deficient and it will show you who you need to hire first, right? What do you need first? You need an accountant first. You need an admin first, but thinking about the future changes the mindset where you're not saying, I did this to get here, right? You're not looking in the past and reinforcing this concept that you can do it by yourself because you've done it by yourself so far. It's looking out and saying, this is where I want my company to be. This is where I want myself to be. You can do it with your family. This is where I want my family to be in five years, right?

[00:18:38]
This is where I want my life to be in five years or a year, but it will show you that you're going to need supplemental assistance to get there, but it's also going to let you know where you're most efficient first. Who's my first hire, right? Cause that's always the big one, right? Like who's my first hire? And then it's like, okay, now who's my second hire, right? My third hire. But once you start getting into that planning stage, you'll understand where you're deficient and where you need to hire people to help you get there. 

[00:19:03] Dr. Nate Salah
Absolutely. And if it's situation to where you're just selling hamburgers and Southern California and you want to go nationwide. Maybe it's time to have a conversation with that Ray Kroc. 

[00:19:12] Travis Revelle
Maybe it is, right. And a lot of people probably even like, where's my Ray Kroc? How do I find this person, right? And I think that comes from, you know, doing a little networking. Who is in your city that is good at what you need?

[00:19:23] Dr. Nate Salah
Who is selling you milkshake machines, right? Who do you already know? That perhaps is ready for a change as well. Your network is such a critical aspect of this conversation. And it's a conversation we'll continue to talk about in the future. Because, as it's been said, your network is your net worth. That's it. It's good having you, brother.

[00:19:41] Travis Revelle
Nice having you.

[00:19:44] Dr. Nate Salah
Well, my friend, we did it again. I'm so glad you joined me on this episode of A Call to Leadership. If you've been with me on the show, listening in, you'll know this, but if you're new, you may not know that I created a free course for you that you don't need to provide an email address. You don't need to go anywhere, but to stay right here in the podcast. I created the very first six episodes of the podcast because I wanted you to have the kind of value that you need to take advantage of to thrive as a leader. If you haven't done that yet, listen to episodes one through six, and I'll see you on the next episode. I'm Dr. Nate Salah, and this is A Call to Leadership.

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