[00:00:00] Dr. Nate Salah
Hello, my friend, and welcome to this episode of A Call to Leadership on this two-part series, we are diving into such an important topic of the social expectations, the ways that we feel as though we are in bondage to what others expect of us how others create our own identity, how we can break free of that, and truly live fully to communicate messages with meaning and to live our purpose. I've invited a friend, an expert in this space International Best Selling Author, keynote speaker, Gordon Melville to help me unpack this, you're gonna hear some really sage advice. Can't wait for to listen. And I'm Dr. Nate Salah. And this is A Call to Leadership. We've stumbled on such an important aspect of belief about ourselves and the world around us. Gordon, how often do we believe the negative? What's untrue about ourselves? How often have you seen it in all of your interactions with human beings, your interactions with empiricism, and your studies? Is this an epidemic today? Are we seeing more stimuli that's coming in that's clouding our minds, clouding our judgment, clouding our ability to live free and fully?
[00:01:21] Gordon Melville
Absolutely, I think it's 100%. Life is moving so fast, we're distracted by whether it's ads, whether it's stuff going on our life, they say, between the knowledge increase between 90 and 100. And about what 19 9980 is now duplicating every two or three years, we're duplicating. There's so much stuff out there, if you allow yourself you get pulled in 1000 directions, we allow other people's opinion, when we make decisions about stuff, we think, what will people think of what will I look like if I fail, I have to look a certain way to magazine say I have to look a certain way TV says I have to look a certain way my friends, peer groups, I have to act a certain way. And if I don't, they won't like me. And I talk a lot about having a Superman moment where we put our hands on our hips and we go, I'm going to be unabashedly unapologetically we end up they like a great if they don't like it, I don't care.
[00:02:12]
And then somebody we love or respect, questions it and instead of standing there and going, No, that's who I am, that's who I'm going to be we turtle and we put our mask back on, we don't know, they're not going to love me unless I have am this other person unless I play this other character. And so we run our life based on what other people are going to think everybody wants to be unique and like, be you there isn't anybody else that can do that. That's unique. Be 100% authentically who you are, and let the chips fall where they may, right? But we're so tied into what other people are going to think of us. Am I going to be alone? Well, no, there's going to be people that go away from you, as you raise your vibration, there's going to be people that don't want to go on that ride. And that's fine. That's a choice they're making. But as they go away other people who come into your life that like the fact you're being authentic, and like the fact of that new vibration, they'll have new people, and they may not be there forever. It's not don't get attached to people.
[00:03:11]
But be okay with you hold them in an open hand so that they come and they go and they come in. They're not yours. And that's why when I talk about getting my identity from Papa, getting my worth and my value from him, I don't have to worry about even my own opinion. I'm not worried about what other people think. It doesn't mean any do I listen in will I get wise counsel for sure I will. But that's something that's mentorship. That's different, though. That's not somebody's opinion. And at the end of the day, I'm still going to push that through who I'm being and how I believe I need to show up or how Papa's telling me or showing me I need to who I need to be.
[00:03:47] Dr. Nate Salah
That's so important that you brought that up this concept of identity, and how our identity is framed, how it's structured. Sometimes we believe that we need to have permission from others to have certain direction. It's not their decision.
[00:04:05] Gordon Melville
Our journey is not for somebody else. Your journey is for you. My journey is for me, I don't need anybody to acknowledge it. I don't need approval. I don't need anything from anybody else to be me.
[00:04:17] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. And you do that through understanding, you know, where your identity is placed the same as you. I read a book years ago, it was called Lead like Jesus and Ken Blanchard, popular guy in the leadership world. And one of the chapters he talks about this concept of he had one of his mentees, a student of his saying, Well, I have to tell this person this and I have to do this for this person, I have to make this person happy. And all this other stuff. And he's unthreaded from all of it. And Blanchard talks about you only have to please, one, you know if you're a person of faith, and that's God. Don't worry about anybody else. That's the direction of your life. And if that's the direction of your life of other people aren't going to that same destination, then let them off, don't try to go someplace completely different because it's not going to take you to your desired destination.
[00:05:07] Gordon Melville
You know what I think? And you and I could debate and that's on a different topic but debate. I don't think I need to make Papa happy with me. He's already happy with me.
[00:05:15] Dr. Nate Salah
It's semantics. Right? In other words, you have an audience of one. Really? Absolutely right.
[00:05:21] Gordon Melville
He already loves us. He already likes us. There's nothing I can do. He'd never ever ever goes, whoop, I didn't see that coming. That never happens. Right? So he already understands and I find a lot of times we get stuck in church to us to tell us Well, if your life is in the toilet, it's because you're not in God's will to where you need to be. And I used to look at it go read my Bible and go Paul and Silas. They were way outside they've been shipwrecked a bunch of time to they end up in jail over and over the stones, like just about everything went wrong did Yeah, exactly. Where were they wrong in their life?
[00:05:51]
What were they doing wrong? He didn't promise easy. He promised to be with us as it happens, right? And so to trust him that he's guiding the path. So at some point, I have to be able to execute and have a boots on the ground at some point, right resting in Papa doesn't mean laying on the couch eating bonbons, right? Rest is a verb. And I need to be able to still do but I'm doing in his power as opposed to my power. And I say to him all the time, make sure this if you don't want me going in this direction, you completely shut off that door completely closed into I don't want there to be any ambiguity whatsoever. When should it be going that way? Not going that way. And I'm just going he made me as a proactive human. So I'm a very, let's get it done.
[00:06:30]
Let's get it done. Let's get it done. Right. As opposed to being reactive. The challenge with that is resting in Him and going okay, well, if He's directing my path, am I going in the right direction, my brain and my heart and Papa keeps telling me you go, I'll bless it. Read my show, right? You put the message out all blessing. You put it out however you want. Oh, bless it. I'm like, Okay, if he doesn't want me in that space, right? The one knock-on grace that a lot of people, even Christian people go get but if you tell people, he's already sanctified you and it taken everything away. It just gives you a license to sin and do whatever you want. And I'm like, Have you ever dated anybody ever been married? And they're like, Yeah, I'm like, great. So if you know something really bothers them, do you go out of your way to do that or not do that?
[00:07:17]
And they were like, Well, no, I guess I go to my way not to do that. Exactly. So if I love Papa, I don't go, well, he's given me a free pass. I can do whatever I want. I can sin however I want. I go you know what, that's not how this works. I love him. I don't want to do those things. Because I know isn't going to hurt him. He knew it was there already. If I'm going to do it, he knew I was going to do it. I was going to make that choice. So in terms of hurting, will it hurt? No, he already knew it was there. It's not an extra good. I mean, it's not an extra hurt out of the blue. But I'm gonna go out of my way not to do the things that I found it weird in church. And I didn't understand that at the time. The way I understand it. Now. I heard it from Darren Hardy. But he always talks about energy flows where attention goes. So wherever we put our attention, there's going to be energy flow there.
[00:08:08]
So in church, it was always don't send don't send don't send don't send Holy crap, the pastor sleeping with the Secretary, how did that happen? Well, that's where your focus is on the sin. You weren't focused on the positive side, when we're on a skid pad sliding towards the wall, they say, don't look at the wall, look where you want to go. And your hands will steer you there, right? But we have this it's counterintuitive to our brains going no, no, no, no, I don't want to hit the wall go in the wall. It's like, look where you want to go, you'll go that way. But the same thing with their activity as a human stop focusing on I don't have enough, I want to focus on the abundance side, right? Because if I keep talking about, I don't have enough, I don't have enough, I don't have enough, I don't have I have lack I have negative, if that's where I'm going to focus. That's what I'm going to get more of that, right. But we don't wire our brain that way.
[00:08:56] Dr. Nate Salah
The focus that's so critical. And it seems Elementary, however, and in some ways it is however, it's simple. That's the idea. The idea is simple. You want to simplify as much as you can in life so that you can focus on the simple the same thing with the clarity of your message and what you brought up earlier about Paul, I want to just hang out there for a few moments, because of how it ties into this identity, this vision for your life that pulls you and directs you in orders battling your steps, but your perspective, I believe that our expectations and our perspective in life has so much of an impact on our level of satisfaction on our level of perceived joy in life because of what we understand the challenges to life to be but what our direction is and where our identity is. And you brought up Paul, do you think about a guy who has this massive ministry this opportunity to share what we would call good news?
[00:09:54]
And you think, Okay, this pathway should be pretty easy, but it's not As you had said, this guy, he's beaten, he's stoned. He's imprisoned he shipwrecked. He's left for dead. He's bitten by a poisonous snake, just about everything that could have gone wrong for this guy went wrong. And I think about it. Okay, well, in my life and your life, Gord, likely we will never experience that level of challenges and circumstances in our lives. But we will experience a challenging and very difficult circumstance, someone listening right now is experiencing a very difficult circumstance. And I believe, as you had mentioned earlier, God is intimately acquainted with our circumstances, cares deeply about our circumstances, but the vision for our lives, God is in the character building business. And he will take us through our circumstances to build us into the character of Christ, one who loves both up and across.
[00:11:00] Gordon Melville
The poem about footsteps, right where the person turned around and went, well look at all the hardest parts of my life, I was alone. And they were like, No, that's when I carried you. Right? He doesn't promise us easy. He promises us he'll be there with us, as we go through it, give us the strength. And whatever we need to get through whatever he's bringing, you use the word expectation. It's something that's become a beacon for my wife and I, we will celebrate 32 years together this year, and I was on one of my groups, and women only. And these women were looking at my wife, who I had on the call with me, and they said, You've been married 32 years? And she said, Yeah, the one lady asked her, How many fights have you had with Gore in 32 years?
[00:11:43]
And she thought for a little bit, and then she goes, You know what, I can probably count on one hand and still have fingers left. And they were like, how the heck is that possible? In three decades, you have less than five? Really? How do you do that? So my wife and I were talking about it after and I'm like, why is that? Is that because one of us is a doormat, or because we came up with a different way to deal with it. And she said, No, no, we came up with a different way to deal with it. And we stumbled on I think that was Papa looking after his long before we realized that he was paying attention to us that close, but expectations is about us. Expectations are coming from my ego. Even for me, my expectations of me is still my ego. So I talk about with clients, and with my family with my wife, what we did was come up with agreement, this is the way I agreed to act a certain way or conduct myself in a certain manner, right? If we're going to have an argument, I'm going to approach it from this way.
[00:12:35]
And she says, Okay, I'm going to approach it from this way. And so as long as they live up to my word, and people will try to live up to their own word way more, right? We have these weird things where I've gotten an expectation for them. And I'm like, then they're upset. We do this neurotic thing and go, Oh, you didn't live up to my expectation? I'm like, Well, did you tell him? Well, no. Did he agree to it? No. Well, then why are you upset? Like that was all about you? And it had nothing to do with that. Right? And so you know it? Does Papa have expectation for us? No, he has an agreement. He set out to tank him. And he said, This is what I'm prepared to do. This is what how I will support you. This is how I'm gonna love you this assignment treat you? What are you prepared to agree to? And as soon as I take the expectation out of it and have an agreement, it's a way more positive space, I don't have expectation of myself. I've said for years, I don't have expectation of my wife.
[00:13:34]
Now, does that mean I don't have hopes and dreams? No, no, I still have all of that. But I just don't have an expectation that she's going to look after me in a certain way. Right. And especially as spiritual people, Papa supposed to be the person we go to, to get our needs met. So even in a loving marriage relationship, I don't look to her Papa's going to do that for us, for both of us. And we do that sometimes you do that through each other, meeting those needs through each other. But that's Papa doing that, through her or through me, for her or for me, but expectation I find so often gets us in so much trouble, right? Because I gotta live up to my parents expectation or society's expectation, or this is what my friends expect from me. And I'm like, Okay, you need their validation. And it will know well, yes, a lot of people do. And so to take that completely out of the equation and go, Okay, I'm not going to have an expectation.
[00:14:29] Dr. Nate Salah
And that's a healthy approach to relationships, because you talk about agreements, I really appreciate you reframing that reminds me of when I was just at the altar with my wife, so many decades ago, and we lit a unity candle, as many do and the representation of leaving and cleaving and you becoming one team one flesh. And it's an agreement. It's agreement that we walk unity that we are one team that we are one unit. And I would remember days where perhaps I was veering off. And I was not being a team player, because I was grew up in a very environment where single parent, I was often by myself, and I was on my own doing a lot on my own. And I didn't have a team. So it took some time to figure this whole team thing out, right? But I remember what she would say she'd say, you're lighting your own candle.
[00:15:30]
And that reminder would remind me, oh, my goodness, I'm breaking the agreement. It's not an expectation. It's simply, this is what we agreed to, to keep this candle lit together so that the flame burns brightly so that we can both see the pathway together. And I think in some ways to gourd This is where again, reminded, and we've talked a lot about Scripture today, which is fantastic. This idea that when Paul again, back to Paul, when he was crying out about this thorn, in his side, don't know what it is, could have been spiritual, it could have been physical could have been emotional. His response was, My grace is sufficient. My power is made perfect in weakness. And I think about that, in my own journey, the agreement is I am giving you unmerited favor. That's another way to say grace, which is massive, by the way, it's like it's the most amazing gift to humanity. Yeah, it's not good news.
[00:16:28]
It's great news, right? That's the agreement. And here's the thing, if it's not sufficient, don't sign the agreement. Because you'll be disappointed, because you'll be looking for things outside of that agreement that are perhaps even lesser things, because you don't understand the greater thing. This is what I'm talking to myself. But because that grace is sufficient, that agreement propels me forward in my identity and my direction. And incidentally, as you alluded to earlier, my values, because they values we hold our boundaries and borders, they define who is a participant in this journey, and who perhaps is not a best fit. And I think it's so important for us, I want you to talk about this briefly, if you can, the mandate for us to not only understand our values, as you mentioned, in authenticity, but also to speak them out, so that it's clear to others.
[00:17:19]
What is important is, for me, one of my core values is integrity. And it's not that I perfected it, right core values only that you've perfected it, it's simply it's a it's a virtue, it's a principle that I hold so dear, that I continue to strive for excellence. In this virtue, if you're a person who doesn't walk in integrity doesn't mean that the doors are closed, it just means that this is the direction I'm going in. If you're not going in that direction with these values, and it's likely we're not going to see eye to eye, we're not going to have agreements that are lasting.
[00:17:53] Gordon Melville
I think a lot of times, and just real briefly, I think a lot of times, they say if you want to find the most judgmental place on the planet, go to a church. My dad always says God, the Bible clearly says, and I'm like, Dad, do you know how many denominations that are underneath the umbrella of Christianity? And he's like, No, a lot. I said, Yeah, try more than 41,000. And they will all tell me, it clearly says, so maybe I don't have all the answers, maybe. Is there a possibility that that you say the good news isn't just good? It's great. Phenomenal, right? And so if that's the case, I've said to people for a long time, I think a lot of Christians should close their mouth and be it would have a much, much more magnified effect in a positive way, if they're actually being who they're supposed to be. Because I'm finding a lot of times in our world all over the place.
[00:18:48]
They're saying one thing, and being something completely different. And then people disconnect from it. Because like, well, they're to your point about integrity. Well, there's no integrity, they're they're saying this is what they believe that this is what their value is. And then they're doing this, which is and so they discount it all and go, Oh, that's what that's about. I don't want it part of that. And we do it a disservice if we could just be because they say actions speak louder than words, right? So if I'm being who I'm supposed to be, it's shouting, these are my values, right? There are certain things that you will say that in a regular conversation with you, even if I didn't know what your values were, by some of the things that you say, I'm going to be able to figure out fairly quickly, hey, integrity is something that how do you know that we'll watch it look at it, look at these pieces of his life? Look what he's doing in his life. Look at the way he conducts himself, that tells me he has integrity, right? Go play golf with them. He doesn't add strokes. He doesn't take away like God mean like.
[00:19:42] Dr. Nate Salah
Yes, because your values they meter and measure and they order your steps. Not only that, but then your values become how people perceive you. As you're saying they become literally your values form your reputation, and then your reputation becomes really your brand. It's your thing. Your print in society. And you can't fake it by the way, because eventually you will be found out. Look at Bernie Madoff, people get found out. And if you're not found out in the public sphere, you're definitely found out at home. Absolutely. And so living authentically in those values, you're right, it is a beacon of what's truly important. You talked about integrity.
[00:20:18]
Look, I haven't always walked in integrity. I haven't had that in my life. I haven't always had a servant's heart, I haven't always had empathy. These are areas of my life that I've begun to embrace over the last, however many years and decades through a change in my identity from above, then directs my behavior. And it doesn't really matter. At the end of the day, as you said, it doesn't matter who believes or doesn't believe or agrees or doesn't agree. And I'm with you that we need to walk in such authenticity and care, that we begin to stamp out the hypocrisy in our world, in our lives in our communities, that we embrace people from a true pure heart of love.
[00:20:57] Gordon Melville
At the beginning of COVID, I put a sign on our front lawn that said, I love you. And this lady was walking by with her dog, and she looked over and she goes, How is that possible? You don't even know. And I said, well, people hate for no reason. Or I can look for a reason. And she says, what's the reason I said you're a human and you're alive. I don't need anything else. And she goes through and she just kept walking. But it's about I don't need to know who they are. I don't have to agree with all their life choices. It's not saying hey, what you are all the way across the board is perfect in every way possible might see them that way. But my brain, I just find a weirdest thing happens when we were growing up if I choose a topic like LGBTQ when we were growing up, we attacked, at least what we were always taught, they were attacking the person.
[00:21:38]
And it always disconnected from me because I'm like, Okay, we're teaching God is love. And he didn't make any mistakes. These people are bad. We didn't attack behavior, right? So there was always this judgment, right? And I say to my dad all the time, it's the weirdest thing I find with people that I don't agree with, in some way or another doesn't just have to be in any way. If I lead with love, instead of judgment, the wall comes down to no listen to pretty much anything else you want to say they may not still not agree. But at least there's an engagement, people listening to each other, which doesn't. As soon as there's judgment, the wall comes up, and then they won't don't even listen to it. They won't even engage you in any way, shape, or form. And so when Jesus was here, he didn't have a problem with anybody else. He had a problem with the church. Right? The religious leaders, that's who he had the problem with, that had no problem with him. So being able to meet people where they are, why can't we do that?
[00:22:29]
Why can't we love on them and do that by action? Right? Not judging them, love on them. And again, when you talk about leadership, the people that have worked for me in dealerships and that I've had, they knew I cared about forget business, they knew I cared about them as human beings, before we ever talked about your employee status. Like none of that matters. I outright said to people forget work, tell me what's going on in your life. And people would come to me from other departments, the department heads would come to all upset and go, Why don't they come to you and not come to me? I don't know. Maybe you're not approachable. Maybe you're a boss, you might be a manager, but you're not leading.
[00:23:04] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah, you become an adversary rather than an ally. And you've so clearly articulated the message that's attractive the message and I love the way you put it, you're human, you're alive. I don't need any reason to love you. I mean, Gordon, that's beautiful. And so are you Oh, my goodness, I can't believe we've gone through an entire hour of our time together, we've got to do this. Again. We barely even scratched the surface. And I want to hear more about your adventures in this mindset of love. Thanks for being well, my friend, we did it. I'm so honored, you are able to join me on this episode of A Call to Leadership. Now, this might not be for everyone. Because you really have to be in a certain place in order to take the kind of steps to level up your leadership.
[00:23:54]
And I want you to be taking steps. And for those of you who feel like you're ready for something like this, there's a place you can go, you can go to our website, Greatsummit.com. I'll make sure that's in the show notes. But here's the cool thing that we have. We've got a master class. We have all different kinds of events. We even have our Leadership Club, where you can meet other people just like you to go deeper in your leadership journey. You and I will get to spend some time together and really focus on aiming for greatness. I can't wait to see you there. I'm Dr. Nate Salah, and this is A Call to Leadership.