EP228: The Money Shot - Making Every Interaction Count with John Golden

Join sales guru John Golden as we unpack the secrets to successful sales interactions. This episode explores how to leave a lasting positive impression on customers, plus ways to harness authenticity and consistency to enhance every customer experience. So tune in for transformative insights that’ll elevate your sales skills immediately.

Key Takeaways To Listen For

• Importance of consistent, valuable interactions throughout the customer journey
• Strategies for genuine connection and authentic engagement in sales 
• Techniques for effective listening that go beyond hearing to engaging and understanding
• How starting your day positively influences professional interactions
• Ways to manage self-talk and stay present to enhance communication

About John Golden
John is the Chief Strategy and Marketing Officer at Pipeliner CRM, with over nine years of experience providing strategic direction to enhance market penetration through direct and channel sales strategies. He ensures the organization aligns with its target buyers and delivers optimal value to salespeople, managers, and executives.

He is a best-selling author, publisher, podcaster, and speaker. He has written two acclaimed books on sales performance, CRM, and social selling. As the Publisher and Executive Editor of Sales POP!, he oversees an online sales magazine featuring insights from over 1,500 thought leaders globally. He also hosts weekly video and audio podcasts and frequently speaks at international events.

Connect with John

• Website: Pipeliner CRM
• LinkedIn: John Golden

Connect With Us
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• Facebook: Nate Salah
• TikTok: @drnatesalah
• Clubhouse: @natesalah

Transcript

[00:00:00] Dr. Nate Salah
Nate, hello, my friend, and welcome back to another episode of A Call to Leadershipwhere we bring you the brightest minds to help you level up your leadership game. I'm your host, Dr, Nate Salah, and today we're diving into a topic that could transform the way you do business forever. Have you ever wondered how some people can leave an unforgettable impression, a lasting one, a game-changing one in just a few moments? Well, get ready to find out how we have John Golden in the virtual house. John is an expert in sales and marketing. He is a global thought leader with the credentials to prove it. He's interviewed over 1500 top influencers for sales pop. He has got his finger on the pulse. My friend of what it takes to make that impression. He's been the CEO of Help Weight. He's led Omega performance and now the chief strategy and marketing officer at Pipeliner CRM, he's here with me to reveal the secrets on how to maximize every single interaction you have if you're ready to unlock the strategies, this is the time to take your game to the next level. He's one of the best in the business. Stay tuned. You don't want to miss this. John golden, welcome to the show. Thanks for being here.

[00:01:30] John Golden
Yeah, thank you. Dr Nate, thank you very much. 

[00:01:32] Dr. Nate Salah
You bet, man. You know you're a sales guy. You understand the philosophy of sales. You're not only that, but you have an expertise in this area, so many people miss this idea of how sales interaction requires some level of self-awareness engagement, and I want to break that down with you today, because you have so much wisdom in this area for our listener In terms of how to maximize those interactions. How important is maximization of the interaction in the sales environment?

[00:02:09] John Golden
I think it is the most important part. Because every moment you have to interact with a prospect or a customer, you have an opportunity to reinforce not just the product or service you're trying to sell, but the experience of dealing with you. Because today, that whole kind of customer experience is so critically important, and we measure it by every single interaction we have, regardless of who it is with or at what stage of the journey it's with, so which part of the journey it's at. So it's incredibly important that every chance, whether it's in person or digital, any interaction, you know, during that whole buyer journey. I mean, it has to be on point. 

[00:02:48] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah, I've heard it said like this, you know, the touch point. Every touch point must be consistent, and us, as you know, consumers, air quotes, whether it's consciously or subconsciously, we're always driven for utility. We're driven for value, and that value is generally measured by the quality of our perceived experience, absolutely.

[00:03:08] John Golden
And I think that's the thing that's undoing a lot of people now, is that whole idea of like a consistent experience, because there are so many different touch points today and so many different ways in which consumers or prospects or customers interact with us and our brand, that you have to be on top of it, because unfortunately, as you know, Nate, I mean human nature, being what it is, we always default to our worst experience, right? We don't default to the best one. If we go, I always use the airline example. You can get to the airport, check in, everything's smooth, get on the have a great flight. All of that. Everything's perfect, and then your bags are delayed 1015 minutes coming off, and there's no announcements, and people say, How was your journey? And you say, I was terrible, even though it really wasn't. You had a bit of a bad experience at the end. But that's how we are as humans, so that's why every link in that customer experience chain is critical.

[00:03:57] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah, so the airline. I love the airline experience. Our listeners heard me talk about car buying experiences over and over again, how many times I've had to endure because, again, it's all perception, right? You have an expectation, and so anything that validates that expectation will be how you remember the entire experience. Yeah, yeah. For me, a lot of car buying experiences or anything that maybe you find to begrudgingly. You have to purchase it. You have to do it. It's a right of a necessity that you're not really excited about. Well, I should say this,

[00:04:29] John Golden
Think about Nate for a second about the opportunity that that presents, even in the car buying experience, right? Can you imagine the opportunity that that presents if you happen to be listening, and you happen to be a car salesman, act differently from all the others. Indeed, we'll stand out. And just imagine if, when I walk onto the car lot, instead you come in like shooting out the door immediately trying to sell me the first car I happen to look in the window of that you spend some time really getting to know what I'm there for, why I'm there. I may be looking at the kind of car I want. Yeah, but not the kind of car I need, and the one I'm actually here to I'm going to end up buying, right? Because I may be coming in looking at this sporty guy over here thinking, Oh, it's fantastic for realizing I still got to schlap the kids around, right, and the dogs, so that's not really going to work. 

[00:05:14] Dr. Nate Salah
But, yeah, that's it, and I think that's the key. The key is there's massive opportunity for us who are not only aware of the necessity for maximizing that experience, but also engage in it. And I believe that we move from the position of an adversary, because sales can be considered adversarial, to a position of ally. I'm not your enemy. I'm actually the one who's going to help you win the battle that you're facing today. Because the battle is what, I have a problem. I mean, it's all sales is, right? Sales is, look, I have a problem. I need a solution. And it's up to us to determine how we change. Yeah.

[00:05:52] John Golden
And how can I get you? How can I go in even knowing that your reaction is probably going to be a little defensive when I start to engage with you at the beginning, because that's just the way it is. And way it is. I mean, when salespeople engage with us, we immediately put up our shields. So if you go in knowing that, you say, okay, my first few interactions and conversation here with Nate, Nate's probably going to have the Oh, you're a salesperson. I'm going to put up my defensive shield. So how can I overcome that, and how can I engage with you immediately in a way that, because it helps you to start to lower those absolutely.

[00:06:26] Dr. Nate Salah
And so us, I own an advisory and accounting firm. So we do business advisory, do accounting people come in and do their taxes. It can be very adversarial, John, if you've if you've done, if you've prepared your taxes or went to an accountant, the first thing you think of is, oh my goodness, the government is out to get me, and I'm never going to get a break. So our philosophy has always been, we are in the love business. It's not We're not an accounting advisory. We're in the love business because first of all, they need to come down about three notches because it's already stressful. A lot of folks are coming in they think they're going to owe or they're not going to get their deductions, or whatever the case is. So start with the place that they want to be. 

[00:07:03]
That's the way I envision our journey. Here's where you truly want to be. You want to be in a place of joy. You can't get there in the current state you're in. So how do we go about helping you to get there? I'm going to give you an example. I love it for you to go through some of the mechanics of your process. One, okay, let's say someone listening is in the real estate business, and they have rental homes that they want to lease out to tenants to live in. So this can also be adversarial, because someone coming into a building is going to say, Oh, my goodness, this landlord. What if this person's a slumlord, or if they don't fix stuff, or go down the list,

[00:07:39] John Golden
Yeah. So I think one of the most important things, I think, is before you ever forget about the people you're selling to today, forget about all of that, and think about, how are you starting your day? Because I think this is an incredibly important one that's more important than it's ever been. Quite frankly. I mean, once upon a time, back in the day, when you woke up in the morning, you only had a couple of options, right? Most people got up, went to the bathroom, got ready, maybe got downstairs, maybe they flick on the TV. Maybe even TV in your room, I don't know, but today, you have this little device at your fingertips, right? You know? So you wake up in the morning and you can immediately reach over and your social media and your news alerts and all of that. And I think that's incredibly destructive, because quite honestly, news today isn't designed to inform you. 

[00:08:22]
It's designed to provoke a reaction, right? So it doesn't matter where you sit on the political spectrum, your news is going to provoke you. So if you start off with that immediately, you're going to be in a different headspace, right? Or you jump onto social media and you see that person who you couldn't stand in high school, and now they're standing beside a Ferrari, and that picture and your day is ruined, right factors? It wasn't even their Ferrari. But, you know, you didn't even bother to scroll long enough to figure that out. But now, so think about it. How long are you awake now? Probably like 20 minutes. Half an hour, you're drinking coffee. You're already in a bad space. You're annoyed by the news. You're irritated by the comparison culture. So I think one of the things to do is pay a lot of attention to how you are starting your day. 

[00:09:02]
If you have a really important day, if you're out realtor, you're out to do all these calls, think about it. Okay, I'm not going to look at the news. I'm not going to look at social media. Maybe I am going to take a few quiet moments. Maybe I'm going to read some inspirational stuff. Maybe I'll listen to somebody, whatever it is, just something to positively start you're doing to clear your mind, instead of clutter it with this garbage. It's clear it and put yourself in the best place to face into the day. 

[00:09:29] Dr. Nate Salah
We really just scroll right past that part, John, don't we? We really scroll right into, oh my goodness. What are all these things I have to do today? Instead of starting at a place of peace, place where we can frame our day, and also the stimuli that's coming in that's helping us to make the decisions on what our countenance is going to be for that day. What a critical place to start for all of us. 

[00:09:53] John Golden
It really is, and like I said, it was been something that we could work on, but it's just more critical now because we're so tempted just to. For our devices immediately. Alex, somebody told me the other day that, I mean, the majority of people now do that before they go to the bottom in the morning, where it used to be like, the first thing you do you wake up like now it's check your phone. And so these are just things to pay real attention to. And I think the second part to pay attention to is, okay, you get yourself set up. You've got your morning. You know, you're good. Problem is that throughout the day, I think Psychology Today has it at 70% 70% of our self talk is negative on a daily basis. So you may have started off your day good, just like we said, Got yourself, but now you're jumping in your car and you're headed to your calls, and you're allowing all this, there's all this chatter going on in your head, right?

[00:10:42]
You know, there's all these things that's a great time is to acknowledge that and say, realize, yeah, you know, there's going to be a lot of chatter in my head, but this is an important day today. I need to be on top of things. So used to be a show on TV, didn't there? Like, phone a friend? So, I mean, that's actually not the worst idea in the world is, when you're on your way somewhere, is to phone somebody who you know can pump you up, or somebody puts you in a good mood, or somebody who just a few words of encouragement from them will set you right, and just do that, make that call. So now you fill some of your space with something positive, be it something outside of yourself, or maybe put on some music that's uplifting, that gets you going, maybe put on a podcast, or you're one that's motivating, but try and fill that space with positivity, and don't allow the chatter. So you got yourself up in the morning. You got yourself into a good space. Don't allow the chatter to ruin everything between now and when you start engaging with people brilliant.

[00:11:34] Dr. Nate Salah
You know, as you're saying that it gets me thinking about different individuals in your life as well, and having that list of people, perhaps, to say, hey, look, you know what, today I'm facing this massive challenge. I've got this deal to close, or this big hurdle to get over, and being in preparation for that. Say, You know what, I'm going to reach out to a friend who I know is very encouraging and get that permission for that space. Hey, look, would it be okay this week's going to be really rough. Is it would be okay if I just reached out to you to just have a quick chat and reframing my mind, my perspective, so that I go in with a victor's mentality rather than a victim's, if you will, mentality, yeah, that's absolutely critical.

[00:12:12] John Golden
The other part of it is we carry baggage around with us. It's unavoidable. It's who we are as human beings. So we carry a lot of baggage around with us. And that's another thing that we can consciously address. We can say, you know, going back to your example, the realtor example, I can maybe go into this day thinking, last few months have been really bad. You know, these things have always not going to work out. So that's the negative self talk and but also I can start looking at it going, I haven't performed that well, you know, this market, these people, the people I'm meeting today, don't look like the right profile. And before you know, you know you've set yourself up to have all these negative triggers. And what you need to do is you need to leave some of your baggage behind, and you just need to say, I'm not going to carry any of this negativity into this call with me. 

[00:12:57]
Okay, stuff didn't work out last week, last month, last year. It doesn't matter that's done, that's gone. Let me refocus on things that have worked in the past. The only baggage I'm going to bring into this call is positive experiences and positive things I can share and help. And if you deliberately do that, if you deliberately make that and that has to be kind of a conscious thing, you have to consciously say to yourself, I'm leaving this baggage at the door. I'm checking my baggage, and hopefully it doesn't even make it to the destination. This is where you want your luggage, your baggage to be lost. No, but that, it's so critically important that you acknowledge the fact that you have baggage. You've had negative experience. You have things that could easily derail you if you allow them to, but you're going to choose to leave them at the door,

[00:13:36] Dr. Nate Salah
And that's the key. The key is the choice. We have that choice, and that is where we can take dominion over our thoughts that are so critical. You know, in this conversation of how to move into a place of maximizing the value of those interactions, how often do we self sabotage our own opportunities because of what we considered a past fail or a past blunder or a past error, I look at those as feedback. It's all part of the playbook. It's helped me to identify perhaps ways to do things not only say, Well, I just do things differently, maybe I can do things the same way with a different context. It doesn't necessarily mean that I'm broken or that my philosophy is a failure. Maybe simply, it's the type of client I've been seeking. Maybe I'm not talking on my ideal avatar. Maybe that there's a certain time of day, and have you ever heard the statistic of don't get your prison sentence before lunch? Because there's a statistic that shows that judges judge more harshly and issue longer prison sentences when they're still hungry before they had lunch. And so there's different, different. 

[00:14:45] John Golden
My me to always bring some candy or food or something, if I remember, up in court, and hand it to the judge before sentencing. Just say, Judge, just before you make your sentence here, let me, let me give you this candy.

[00:14:58] Dr. Nate Salah
But context makes a different. And so you're giving yourself permission to evaluate, okay, you know what? It's not always the same scenario. It's not always going to be the same result. So I've got to go in with the confidence that this time I'm going to have a better opportunity, because I know more now, and that's that baggage, right? Not carrying that baggage anymore. 

[00:15:21] John Golden
And the thing is that we can carry baggage from so far back, like you carry a lot of baggage from childhood, from our teens, whatever. And we can, quite conceivably, it's happened to all of us. You could walk into a meeting and everything's going well, and then somebody gives you a look that you recognize that look from somewhere way back in your deepest recesses of your subconscious, and it triggers you, and you're back to that moment when you were 15 and this person did that, or whatever, and that's the moment where you have to catch yourself and go, hang on a sec. Get better. Get it that I'm it's a completely different person. This is just coincidence. Stop this, but we often don't, and it can actually derail us, because suddenly, now we're not who we are today. Suddenly we're kind of half that person, and we're half this other person who's been triggered in the background, and everything's chaotic. So again, as you said, just being intentional, you have to recognize when that happens and go that looked at Nate just gave me. He probably wasn't even looking at me. He probably was, and he's probably thinking about something completely different. So I don't know why I'm getting so wound up.

[00:16:17] Dr. Nate Salah

Yeah, absolutely. I think that takes a certain level of maturity to start to live in that space. Absolutely,

[00:16:22] John Golden
I think the next part of it is, and I think this has become an even bigger challenge today. It's a bit like the waking up in the morning part, and that's the concept of being present is to being truly present. So if I show up and we're going to talk, and I'm the realtor and I'm going to try and sell, you know, rent you some apartments, or whatever I'm going to do, I need to decide before I walk up to you that you're going to be my singular focus for the next half hour or two, whatever it is going to be. But I'm not going to let anything else distract me. I'm not going to let my phone distract me. I'm not going to let what's happening at home distract me. What's what I've got next distract me. 

[00:16:58]
I'm going to be there, and the only way I'm going to really prove to you that I'm present is if I'm going to have a dialog with you and ask you questions and dig a little bit deeper and really try to understand who you are, what you need, and make sure that I'm delivering that which what you need, that what you're looking for. But to get there, I have to be conscious and then not just listen, but actively listen. And I think that's the part that we struggle with today, a lot of people, is the active listening part, because we come up in this crazy idea of multitasking. And, you know, hey, Nate, I can talk to you, but I can text somebody at the same time, and I can text them about something else, and I can talk to you about what we're talking about, and nothing is affecting anything. That's nonsense, right? 

[00:17:39]
Absolute nonsense, total nonsense. If you really want to establish rapport with somebody today, have somebody feel respected and validated, is just be present and let them walk away from that engagement going, wow. That person was 100% focused on me, my issues, on trying to serve me throughout that experience. And even if they're not the right fit, that person will walk away with a positive experience about you. And as I say to people nowadays, one of the crazy things is the bar has been set kind of low now, because we're so used to people being tuned out, to be distracted, to be kind of half listening to you going Nate, you're the most important person. So I mean that kind of thing, and we just do it. So again, intentionally spend time being present and really, like, focused on the other person and say, This is all I care about for the next while.

[00:18:29] Dr. Nate Salah
John, someone listening is like, oh, that just dropped a bomb on me, because that is difficult. You nailed it. It is so difficult today with all the distractions we face.

[00:18:40] John Golden
Yeah, by the way, there's a statistic from something is especially when we get distracted, or whatever it's like, when somebody says, Nate, you have a minute. You're in the middle of something, you just go, oh, okay, okay. Well, it takes you a minute to tell me what I need. Takes you 20 minutes or so to get back to what you were doing. So now the minute I asked you for actually cost you about 25 minutes. Yeah, and I think that's the thing, is you have to be disciplined and active. Listening and being present is a skill, just like anything else.

[00:19:07] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah, it's a skill, and it's a skill that, as you said, the bar set very low right now because of all of the distractions we face and that we think we can multitask. Unfortunately, we can't. Unfortunately, if you are listening to someone while you're typing, you're the same part of the brain is at work with your language, the language part of your brain, which means that it's only going to be able to process that one lane, whichever it is. And so let's not kid ourselves. And for all of us who say we're listening to our spouses while we're typing an email, it's not happening. Yeah, just don't tell them that until they say, are you listening to me? What did I just say? And you get caught, and.

[00:19:48] John Golden
I think Nate, that's another thing. I just about validating and being respectful to somebody. If you say to them, listen. I am going to take notes during this, but I want to make sure I really understand I may have a lot of. Terrifying questions. So I may let you speak rather than take notes and type, you know, to let you speak and then say, Okay. Now, just want to make sure I understood what you said. I'm just going to make a note of it here and I repeat it. What does that say to you? That says, Oh, John was actually listening to me. Yes, okay.

[00:20:16] Dr. Nate Salah
And there's nothing I believe that people want more than to feel as though they're being heard, they're being understood, as you said, they're validated, they're important. That's gold in the interaction world, that's gold in the experience world, it's gold in the human condition world, it's gold for all of us.

[00:20:34] John Golden
Yeah, and it just takes you to focus on listening and not be so hung up on what it is you're going to say next. That's the problem with most people, right? Most people aren't listening. Most people are half listening to what the other person is saying and coming up and configuring their own response at the same time. So again, you've got to split focus, because I'm not really listening to you. I'm half listening to you, but I'm half thinking of, how do I sound clever afterwards?

[00:20:57] Dr. Nate Salah
And you know what's interesting about that? As you bring it up, I think about people such as like Elon Musk or Steve Jobs when they're being interviewed, you can see there's an intensity of focus in the questions that are being asked and how they articulate an answer. There's a massive level of focus that is in the moment and highly trained active listening. I'm not saying they're always there, but I've noticed this pattern, and not only in the academic world, but also just the applied world, and that sends the message that this interaction is vastly valuable to me. 

[00:21:33] John Golden
Yeah, and think about too many what do we do often is we ask a question, and then when you don't say anything because I've just answered your question, you actually might need to spend a couple of moments thinking about it, formulating your answer. We jump in because we hate silence, because we're told that silence is a bad thing, and everybody gets awkward. I've just asked you your question. You're kind of going hmm, and you're waiting, and so I'm filling in the gaps, and therefore I'm interrupting your train of thought. And I think that's something that we've also lost. The art of is being comfortable enough with silence and to be able to provide the other person with the space to actually formulate their thoughts and then reply to you. We're so desperate to fill silence,

[00:22:14] Dr. Nate Salah
indeed. And you think even two or three seconds that go by, it almost feels like an eternity, but it's good, and it's okay to allow that time to breathe those thoughts into existence, and then it also sends the message that, look, I also value the quality of your response. I don't want to simply hurry you along because it's expedient or it's efficient. All of these are accused and signals we're sending to the value Now, John, let me ask you this for someone listening who's like, I want to just hang out here for a little bit. I struggle in this area tremendously. So if I'm getting ready to rent in a place to someone, and they say, Hey, I would like the appliances to be gas or electric, I've already forgotten what they're going to tell me before the words get out of their mouth. What do you say to someone like that in terms of perhaps giving them some tools to hone that ability? 

[00:23:11] John Golden
Yeah, I mean, I think the first thing is, I would say slow down and sub because we live in this really crazy world of everything is moving really fast-paced. Here's the other thing, we think we're the busiest we've ever been, so everything has to be executed at light speed. And I always argue about that. I say I don't think we're the busiest we've ever been. I just think we're the most distracted we've ever been, because now we have things, as we just spoke earlier, we have devices. We've everything distracted. We have so many different ways of communicating, of ways of getting information, things to do bags, so we can distract ourselves all day long. So I think the first thing is to really take some time out and say, How do I organize things better so I'm not so distracted? And how do I catch myself? So when I come in and I'm talking to Nate, you know about the appliances and all that kind of stuff, am I putting aside everything else? So I'm actually focusing on the appliances right now. So I'm really focusing on what you want. 

[00:24:03]
Am I taking notes in the correct way? Am I checking with you? Why do you want those? Is it even necessary? Do you even need gas? Are you really, you know, is that something like for us, like we're not really good at cooks here, you know, gas in a tree wouldn't really make any difference to us, but it makes a huge difference to people who are foodies, right? Who like to cook and all that, but spending some time. So I think that's the main thing, is really clear your mind clutter. Clear the clutter out and remove and try and find those things you know, that distract you. I mean, if your phone is that distracting, then leave it in your bag, yeah, put it in a different room, whatever it is, while you're showing the apartment. If typing distracts and whatever, then here's a really good one. There's this invention. It's been around for a little while now, but it's called Paper and pen, and literally, if I'm talking to you, and I literally take the trouble to write it down now, maybe afterwards, I'll transcribe it into something. But the act of writing it down does two things.

[00:24:55]
Number one, it's far more likely that you're going to remember and actually act on. Something that you physically wrote down, and Second off, just kind of sending a message to the other person. You're going, Wow, they're actually writing that down. They're taking that time out. Because guess what, when I'm writing it, you know, we have to kind of stop for a moment. It's not like even typing. We sort of continue talking. But when it comes to writing, we have a little bit more respect. So I would say, be very, very deliberate in everything you do, and the other person will notice but you'll notice yourself, because you'll find yourself to be in a much calmer space during the engagement.

[00:25:29] Dr. Nate Salah
And this is applicable not just to selling a product or a good or a service. This is applicable to any relationship.

[00:25:37] John Golden
And to be honest, in any role in the business. Because I mean, when people think you mean you're overselling, regardless whether you may think you're sitting in product development, whatever, it doesn't matter. You're still interpreting, negotiating, you're, you know, bringing in your ideas, you're coming up with, you know, I mean, rarely nowadays does somebody just come in and dictate everything that people do. It's much more of a collaborative effort. So, yeah, I think whenever you do anything, if you make a conscious effort to unclutter and to focus on that what you're doing at particular moment, I think you'll find life gets a little less hectic, seeming.

[00:26:11] Dr. Nate Salah
That's good. This is liquid gold for so many, including myself, who live in a world as you said, that it's not necessarily we're busier. I love that you shared, that we are more distracted. I mean, people have been busy for 1000s of years, and you can always find ways to make yourself busy.

[00:26:25] John Golden
Yeah. I mean, if that's a disease that we've had, let's face it, in corporates, probably throughout the world now, but this idea of, like, you know, the busy you are, the more productive, the more important you are, the better you are. Like, just look busy, busy, busy, but don't be effective. 

[00:26:40] Dr. Nate Salah
Be effective. Yeah, and here's my philosophy, to do less and give more my best. That's a tough one, but it's so enriching in our world today, it's okay. 

[00:26:52] John Golden
It's okay too, to focus on things that you're good at and find a way to accentuate the things that you're good at, because again, we live in this crazy world where we focus. It's like when you get into performance reviews at work. You know? This is why I always hated them, because people go, hey Nate, here's two things you did really well last year. Now here's 52 things for you to work on next year, because we love to focus in on the instead of going, hey Nate, you're really good at these two things. You know, you're pretty much not great at these other things. So you know, what I'm going to do is I'm going to figure out how I can orient a job to focus more on the things that you're really good at, and I'm going to get rid of the things that you know good at, because, guess what? It's a waste of time and effort for me to make you good at things that either a you're not good at and things you don't want to be good at and think it's never going to be good at.

[00:27:36] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah, that's focusing on the genius zone. I love that, and I ascribe to that same philosophy of focusing on where you are, a, seven, eight, a, nine or a, 10, and Let's magnify that.

[00:27:49] John Golden
I mean, think about it. I mean, if you think about even in sales, maybe you're fantastic door opener. You are great. You can get in the door, you can build relationships and all of that. But when it comes to actually progressing and closing the sale and moving on. You're not that great at that, so maybe you need to be paired with somebody who is not the greatest door opener. But boy, once you've got a relationship established or whatever, they are great at moving very methodically through the rest of the process. Now you got the best of both worlds. Absolutely.

[00:28:14] Dr. Nate Salah
That's a great conversation piece to segue into around. The value the interaction is also incumbent and dependent on your own skills and your genius. And are you working and living in that genius, whether it's with your employer, whether it's simply in your role in the organization and as leaders for us, in the leadership perspective, are we setting people up for success?

[00:28:40] John Golden
And like I said, No, I would agree. I would say that a lot of times we're not, because we obsess on these idea of fixing things as opposed to accentuating them, you know, as opposed to, like, going looking at the people in your organization or whatever, and saying, Okay, here's the core strengths, and now I'm going to and the beauty is, nowadays, isn't it? You know, we've kicked traditional structures out the window. I mean, you can construct a business today pretty much any way you want to, right? So those days of like these top heavy and hierarchical and layers of middle management, all that nonsense has gone and we're able to operate in more matrix fashion because the skill sets, you know? I mean, there are things nobody can know everything, and some of the things are so specific now is that you need to have experts everywhere. So in order to do that, then you just need to construct the way you operate differently so that you can take advantage of all of these things. 

[00:29:30]
And I think that's the most important thing, is to get away from that idea of fixing problems all the time, but looking at, how do I construct something that really elevates the strengths that, for me is the key part, whether that's in your people or how your people are organized. And then again, I think there's another challenge for leadership too. Now, if it's today, is as you know, like we have five, I think somebody even said six, but we have certainly five generations in the workplace right now, apparently, first time ever, and we have. More people working remote with more contract workers. You can hire people from all over the globe through Upwork, whatever it is. So the biggest challenge for me today is with the organizations. Is how do you effectively communicate and keep all of those people engaged and within your organization? And that does require you, at times, to communicate differently to different audiences, and I think that's probably the biggest challenge we have today. Nate, is that with all these generations in the workforce and just all the different choices people have on how they communicate and how they interact today, that you have to really understand that a one size fits all communication that we used to love, none of that works anymore. You have to target it to your audience internally, before you even target it externally.

[00:30:44] Dr. Nate Salah
Indeed, adaptation that's necessary in the leadership space applies to not only the external stakeholder, but the internal stakeholders well. And again, this is not just in the business world. This could be with my spouse, with my children, with my siblings, with my community, all of these different aspects of the human interaction apply in the same vernacular, the same way that we are describing this. And how much more intentionally valuable is it? What kind of message are we sending when we say, hey, look, I want the best for you, and not just because I say it, because I authentically desire it. What does that say? 

[00:31:25] John Golden
That's a completely different approach than I'm going to check on if you're doing your job according to whatever metrics we set out from the beginning. No, if you're saying like, I want to make you the best you can be. I want to really get the innate skills you have, and I want to really elevate them. And all of that's a very, very different experience. I think you're correct. I think we have to focus more on that kind of thing too, because, as we're already seeing, like people of options, people can take another job anywhere, because a lot of jobs are remote now, so they're not tied to a location or anything like that. 

[00:31:58]
So you're going to lose people very quickly, and they're moving around. I think, at the last statistics, I think what's a Generation Y, or whatever it is, or millennials, whatever, like 12 months and 12 to 14 months in a job. Now, you know, maybe, do you remember we used to look at resumes and go, Well, yeah, this person jumped job every two to three years. That's a red flag right now. It's like, oh, this person jumps job every 12 months. So either I'm going to say, Listen, I'm going to hire somebody and get a really good year out of them, or I'm going to have to figure out how I'm going to persuade that person to want to stay longer well.

[00:32:30] Dr. Nate Salah
And I think that speaks to, you know, as this overarching thought about the power we have in terms of creating a narrative or a message that really is a foundation of the culture we're creating. And I'm talking about just in a business environment, I'm talking about the culture within ourselves. We are a brand. You are a brand. I am a brand. And our brand is our representation of our reputation. That's what creates our brand, and our reputation is a representation of our values, right? What's important to us? Because what's important to us is what we pursue, and what we pursue ends up becoming our reputation. If I pursue excellence in service and I achieve that, then that becomes I develop a reputation for that. If I pursue mediocrity, I'm also going to redevelop a reputation for that. 

[00:33:16]
And I believe in the quality of these interactions, we can raise the bar. Raise the standard, as you say, with the bar set pretty low right now, raise the standard in our own lives of what we expect from ourselves in terms of the values, the reputation, and ultimately, the brand we become that becomes much more attractive in all environments, not just the workplace, not just at home, not just at home, not just our community, everywhere, but you know where it becomes most attractive, John, I believe, is within us. Going back to the original moments of our conversation, is when we get up in the morning that we are excited about this day, because we're excited about the contribution and the significance we can make in it. 

[00:33:59] John Golden
And I just think that one other thing that, again, that will set you apart today, and it's unfortunate that it will, but it will, is if you are very deliberate in your communications, like if you are polite, maybe, if I don't know you already, maybe I'm a little more formal, nobody will ever ding you for being polite and formal and professional. Right now, they definitely for the opposite. But however, some people seem to default into that never heard from you, don't know who you never heard from you before, don't know who you are, yet you're addressing me like I'm your long-lost buddy, right? I think people notice that now. People notice when people are more professional, more polite, and if that's the reputation you get for being really, polite, really interested, very professional.


[00:34:43]
Wow. I mean, who doesn't want to deal with somebody like that? And yes, we're getting the opposite all the time now, and people are thinking, oh, you know, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to be the funny one. So I'm going to send, like, Haha, let me send you a funny thing. We don't even know each other. Like, this is lame. Like, leave me alone. Stop it already. You are now. Putting me for me, when I receive something like that, you're now saying, oh, that's what you think of my intellect level here that you think some corny joke is going to get me to go, Okay, press Hello. 

[00:35:10] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah, buy your product. No, but I think that goes back to the authenticity piece, yeah. Is, here's how I see Authenticity. Authenticity is, it's based on a set of boundaries within my own true self, and within those boundaries, I have plenty of room to navigate. In other words, if I want to be funny and witty with John because I think that he likes humor, I'm going to do that within the realm of my own boundaries of authentically me, which is, I don't think I'm the funniest guy on the planet. So essentially, what I'm going to say is, John, I don't tell the best jokes, but here's one for you, right? That is authentically me. And you'll say, Nate, thanks for trying and thanks for qualifying it because it was a dad joke. I say I'll tell a lot of dad jokes because that's a good way to say. It's probably not funny, but it's a term of endearment, plus what it sends the message is it says, John, I understand some of the things that you find attractive and enjoyable. But I'm going to tell you right now that I have a limited capacity to meet that in the way that maximizes your enjoyment there. And you know what that does for you? I mean, that tells you this guy's real. You know, I can talk to a guy like that.

[00:36:14] John Golden
Yeah, no, I think the authenticity piece is is incredibly important. Like, I always quote Oscar Wilde, who said, like, be yourself because everybody else has taken and I just think that's such a profound piece of wisdom. Is when you're inauthentic, people can see through it, either immediately or eventually, but eventually they will, because eventually you'll contradict yourself somehow in your behavior, because it's not authentic. If you start out being authentic from the get go, yeah, you may think, Oh, well, you know, maybe this isn't the best approach to this situation. Maybe I need to, like, pretend I'm a little bit more like this. And it never really works. So I would say, like, really, unless you're a terrible person, embrace who you are, right? And if you're a terrible person, go find some way to fix that, right? But the fact is, most people aren't. 

[00:36:55]
So be yourself, and you'd be surprised how people react to your authentic self. I mean, that's the other part too. Is particularly as I think a lot of people have grown up in work feeling like they needed to adopt a persona, right, a persona when they walked through the door of work. And I think that's how a lot of people have grown up. And I think for a lot of people who've been around a while, you know, kind of reverting to authenticity is seems quite daunting in many ways, but it's also very liberating. So that's what I would say to people, is, if you know, be your true self, because that's who I'm going to ultimately connect with, because if I'm connecting with somebody who's not real, that connection is not going to work long run.

[00:37:31] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah, yeah. I think when you mix authenticity with the kind of care that is not only courageous but transparent, it can create that sort of dynamic that does create the maximization of the experience through these interactions. Other words, tell people what you can do and what you can't do. Let the cards lay out and hey, you know what? I love the way doctors put it, you know. And doctors are the best at sales, because what they do is they tell you, Look, if you do this, you could die. If you do this, you could live. What would you like to do? Well, I'd like to go the life route. Okay, well, I can't guarantee you're gonna live.

[00:38:07] John Golden
Yeah, well, I was like too about his experts, right? And, you know, doctor's a good example. You go to a doctor, I have greater trust in a doctor if I ask him a question and he tells me he doesn't know the answer, or he or she, whatever. That for me is very credentialing, because if I'm engaging with an expert, and I ask them, and they genuinely say, you know, I don't know the answer to that, you know, I can certainly find it out for you, then I know that's a real expert. That's not somebody who's faking, because you can't know everything to begin with. But also you're exhibiting some humility there. You're not saying I know everything about everything. I'm the doctor here. I know everything. I know a lot, but there are things that I don't know. Therefore, I trust you more as that person than I do as the All-Knowing all scene.

[00:38:49] Dr. Nate Salah
Good point. That's a really good point. Same thing we'd say in accounting, if someone just says, Hey, that's an easy answer every time you ask them. When it comes to some complex tax strategy, run because there are no easy answers. You're right. There's a humility that comes aside that I don't have an answer for that. Here's what we're going to do to see how we can solve that problem so we can get that question answered, call some colleagues in, do some research. You're right. That's a place where you say, Okay, you're someone who I can trust isn't going to just give me an answer because it makes them look good. 

[00:39:22] John Golden
And just the final thing I would say now, to round out everything that we were talking about before, is at the end of the day, like authenticity also means doing what you say you'll do, and as we talked about consistent, because I think the other part is the follow up afterwards. Own that last impression. You know, own your lasting impression, not your last impression, but your lasting impression. So if I say I'm going to get back to you with something tomorrow, and it turns out that I can't get it to you tomorrow, take the time to go text Nate, sorry. Nate, I know I said I'd have that for you today. 

[00:39:53]
Unfortunately, it's delayed to tomorrow. That is a lot different than me coming tomorrow. You're expecting it doesn't come the next. It comes, but you were expecting it yesterday, so you were kind of he was supposed to send that so, yeah, you got it the next day. No big deal. A 24-hour different but it has diminished slightly your thoughts about me, because I didn't do exactly what I was going to say, and I didn't and circumstances change, but I didn't take the time out, or didn't show you the respect to communicate back to you. I just assumed that you'd be okay.

[00:40:24] Dr. Nate Salah
Brilliant, own the lasting impression that just might be the title of this episode, my friend, it is so true to do that have the communication. Don't wait. As you rightly said, I just had this happen with me with a package that I thought was going to be here didn't come on time. I was supposed to get it and it's someone else, and I had to have the communications look, it was supposed to be here. This didn't happen, but the person I was speaking with was so thankful that I kept them in the loop, and that lasting impression now is in a much better place than it would have been had I went and hid somewhere and waited.

[00:40:56] John Golden
Yeah, absolutely. And I just think it's so critical, and that's where so many people undo all of the great work that they did. It's just because, yeah, people are busy and things you know slip through, or something's delayed or whatever. It's just like when you call a customer service and they say they'll fix something for you within a certain hours or whatever, and if you don't hear from them until three days later and you're calling them up, but even if you get that call from them to say we're still working on it, we haven't forgotten about you. That's what people want. They want to know that you care, and if you can consistently show that you care just in these small ways, then you've probably got a customer for life.

[00:41:32] Dr. Nate Salah
Well said, John thank you so much. 

[00:41:35] John Golden
Yeah, no, thank you. This is a fascinating conversation. I really enjoyed it. Thank you. 

[00:41:38] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah, Full of Wisdom. Well, my friend, we did it. I'm so honored you were able to join me on this episode of A Call to Leadership. Now this might not be for everyone, because you really have to be in a certain place in order to take the kind of steps to level up your leadership, and I want you to be taking steps. And for those of you who feel like you're ready for something like this. There's a place you can go. You can go to our website, greatsummit.com, I'll make sure that's in the show notes. But here's the cool thing that we have. We've got a master class. We have all different kinds of events. We even have our Leadership Club, where you can meet other people just like you to go deeper in your leadership journey, you and I will get to spend some time together and really focus on aiming for greatness. I can't wait to see you there. I'm Dr Nate Salah, and this is A Call to Leadership.