A Call To Leadership

EP240: Cell Block Salvation with Jason Courtney

• Jason Courtney

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From the brink of a 50-year prison sentence to a life of purpose and redemption, Jason Courtney’s story is nothing short of remarkable. In this episode, he shares raw, unfiltered details about his turbulent past, the life-altering moment in prison that changed everything, and how he transformed his darkest days into a future full of hope and success. You won’t want to miss this incredible tale of second chances, resilience, and the power of transformation.



Key Takeaways To Listen For

  • How a tumultuous upbringing led Jason to a life of rebellion and the surprising moments that sparked his transformation
  • The role of forgiveness and grace in healing fractured family relationships
  • Jason’s firsthand account of life in prison and the powerful spiritual awakening that transformed his life behind bars
  • Unlikely friendship and life-saving connections that Jason made during his time in prison
  • Ways Jason’s faith journey shaped his entrepreneurial success and approach to leadership



Resources Mentioned In This Episode
Residents Encounter Christ


About Jason Courtney
Jason is the founder of "Deals With Jason," based in St. Louis, Missouri. With a background in the building and real estate industry, he has experience in short sales, house flipping, and commercial developments. During a challenging period, Jason developed a business model that benefits both homeowners and buyers. Homeowners can turn unwanted properties into quick, hassle-free investments, while buyers who don't qualify for traditional loans have a chance to rebuild credit and become homeowners again. Jason is passionate about helping others while building a portfolio of passive income.



Connect With Jason
Website: Deals With Jason


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For tax, bookkeeping, or accounting help, contact Dr. Nate’s team at www.theincometaxcenter.com or send an email to info@theincometaxcenter.com.



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[00:00:00] Dr. Nate Salah
The only time I've ever been to prison is to visit, and that's the way I would like to keep it. However, I've always wondered what it's like to be on the inside, and I've invited a guest who is going to share transparently, vulnerably, not only the pathway into prison, into the confines, but even more endearingly, the freedom that he found in those walls, in his faith, in his journey, and in his future. Jason Courtney is a dear friend and a colleague. I am so thrilled to share his story with you. Jason, thanks for being on the show.

[00:00:51] Jason Courtney
Man, I'm always excited to spend time with you.

[00:00:54] Dr. Nate Salah
Oh, man, back at you, brother, back at you. You have an amazing story, and I just cut right to it because our listener is someone who cares deeply about the experiences of life. You've had an amazing life experience. You are at a great place right now in your journey, and we'll talk about that later, but I think it's so important to explain and talk through how we got there and some of the challenges we face along the way, and you and I share in let's call it waywardness. Waywardness when we were younger, right?

[00:01:26] Jason Courtney
We were prodigals, for sure.

[00:01:29] Dr. Nate Salah
Yes, yes, yes. But prodigals get redeemed. 


[00:01:33] Jason Courtney
That's the beauty, yeah, and understand what they were saved from, right? Yeah. I think that's the gift of the prodigal that the older brother didn't get.

[00:01:41] Dr. Nate Salah
It's interesting you bring that up, so let's talk about that. Well, how would you consider your youth life? Would you consider it like a prodigal, like you wanted your inheritance, or were you wanting to get out and do your own thing, be your own man?

[00:01:55] Jason Courtney
What a great question. So I have thought actually through that many times. And I believe that, you know, my upbringing was rough. My dad was alcoholic. There was a lot of physical abuse, emotional abuse, stuff like that. That went on. However, I wrestled with that first when I had a counselor say, hey, what was your dad's dad like? And my response was, I don't know. I've never met him. He died when my dad was 12, and then he immediately says to me, blew me off my feet. What makes you think your dad knew how to be a dad? And all of a sudden, I understood grace in a way I don't think I had ever seen it before, not that I'm justifying the things that my dad did, but you have to have men in your life to mentor you and teach you what it means to do what is right in every situation of your life. Being a father, husband, even a boyfriend, good son, and hopefully a responsible adult, right that doesn't rea, wreak havoc everywhere it goes, which is what I did.

[00:03:03] Dr. Nate Salah
When you heard that, that's such a powerful, introspective question when you are asked that I never been asked that, but I suspect it changed your view of your dad.

[00:03:14] Jason Courtney
I really did. I really did. I think that I hated my dad. You know, there was hatred, because I think when your father is so, you're supposed to look up to this man. And I did. It's crazy to think about, but even though I was being abused by my father, he still was a superhero to me. But there's something about a mental screw or the person that you're looking up to the most is beating you up like you're a man, right? When you're a little kid and your brain can't conceive that, it creates massive confusion and belief about things that aren't real, because that didn't seem like it should be real, but it was. And so when I was encountered things in life that I should have easily been able to say that's not real, or that's true, that's false. I really struggled with making wise decisions, because I think I had such a chaotic childhood.

[00:04:07] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah, I could identify, so my parents were divorced when I was young, and the whole like holding child support over the head, and like, you're not going to see your dad, and all this other stuff, he was not. He didn't know how to be a dad, really. And I never thought, well, he's had almost 20 siblings, and he was second to last. I wonder how his dad, I never thought to wonder how his dad even was able to Father him. Probably, you know, there's that disconnect, right generation at all. Yeah, right. So it's like, where is that grace? Really? It is a young man. It's tough because, you know, I wanted my father to be a hero. I wanted to make him proud, especially even like even free teen. You probably, I wanted to walk like my dad. I wanted to talk like my dad. I want to eat like my dad. And so I think

[00:04:55] Jason Courtney
I know for me, I didn't want to go to church like my dad. Interesting. My mom dragged my butt to church right now, then they have to go. I'm like, I want to go with it. I want to do what he does. You know, I ain't going. But anyway.

[00:05:06] Dr. Nate Salah
No, no doubt. And you think about your own walk as, as a parent and I, my wife, has massive grace on me, as well as having conversations with our son to say, I'm still learning, because at some point you have to take responsibility, even as a parent, say, Okay, I'm not going to make I'm going to be learning. I need grace, but I need to give grace, and I need to give grace upwards because they just don't know, and that's not an excuse. It's not a way to give them a pass, but same time, it's a release for us.

[00:05:41] Jason Courtney
Yeah, I think there were other things, too that helped me as I got older. Like, I didn't understand that drinking was his problem, like I did know that he was drunk every single time there was some sort of abuse going on, right? There's one instance I remember. It's like ingrained in my brain. He came home and punched a hole in every single cabinet in the kitchen. I mean rage, right? Scared the daylights out of me. I want to say I was probably eight or ten somewhere on there, but I'll never forget that. And it wasn't until much later in life that I knew that alcohol did that to you. I didn't know as a kid that if you drank alcohol, here's what happened. And I heard words like, oh, he was drunk. What does that mean? You know what I mean. So, there was so much to learn that no one was teaching me.

[00:06:25]
I didn't seem like, anyway, in my mom's defense, she was going through it too. My brother and sister going through it, too. So it wasn't like I was alone in it if you will. But there was no education, or my mom was wonderful. Loved us dearly, and I do want to say this because one of the new things I don't like talking bad about my dad just because the end of my dad's life was the greatest, let's say, ten years. And I don't know if we're going to get into me going to prison and all that stuff, but when I got out of prison, I confronted my dad about all these things that he had done to me. Now, I didn't talk about what he did to other people because I was trying to reconcile my relationship with him. And most of it, he didn't remember. Some of it he didn't. He apologized for everything he remembered and those things he didn't. And there was a parting of the seas moment here where my dad and I were on equal playing field.

[00:07:17]
He wasn't my dad anymore that I had to be scared of as a little kid where, I'm an adult now, and I can probably whoop him, I mean, so there was a bit of common ground that happened there, and my dad got to be my hero. So the story turned out fantastic. And so when I tell the story, initially, I'm like, Oh, I hate saying that. My dad was an alcoholic. He was abusive, and blah, blah, blah, so I want to preface that before I forget. Yeah, the ending of the story could not have been more of a fairy tale. I couldn't have orchestrated it better myself. Only by the power and grace of God could it have even turned out the way it did.

[00:07:53] Dr. Nate Salah
Well, it's the story of redemption. It really is. It really is, and that there is possibility for there to be reconciliation. But I think that you would not have understood that had you not going through your own transformation. Well, that's a fact, yeah. And before you went through that transformation, you were in a lot of trouble. I mean, you brought it up, so let's talk about it. What was going on?

[00:08:15] Jason Courtney
Soul facing three life sentences. It was rough at the time. I remember when I got arrested, and I was selling drugs, right? That's kind of how that was all. Thing happened, long story, but not a fun one. But when the SWAT team the heavy guns that St. Louis County pulled out to capture little old me, was so unbelievable. People up on a roof with guns, jumping out of vans with guns. I mean, I'm looking around thinking, What is going on? Never for one second did I think they were there for me. And then I heard this van get out behind me, and I look in my rearview mirror and I'm covered with red laser dots. I mean, covered. And I've never been so scared in my life. My hands almost went through the roof of the car. I was so scared. And I only tell that because I was living such a reckless life and had no idea how what do you need all those people to get little old me for that's what I thought. But I was a drug dealer who was moving lots of product through their county, and they weren't having it.

[00:09:19] Dr. Nate Salah
Because doesn't sound like you had a little baggie full of something with marijuana. That doesn't sound like that kind of.

[00:09:28] Jason Courtney
Yeah, we were moving pounds and pounds. You know, I'd say, I don't want to glorify it, but a lot, it was all bad.

[00:09:33] Dr. Nate Salah
Would you consider yourself an entrepreneur at the time?

[00:09:37] Jason Courtney
Apparently, apparently, it's funny. I was talking to somebody about my dad owned a custom home-building company, so he built custom homes for a living. And I'll never forget when he said to me, if you can sell drugs, you can sell custom homes. I was like, Really, I could build a house because I grew up, you know, on the cruise and cleaning up job sites and stuff like that. So, I understood the building of a house, but I never thought I could. I. To sell. Somebody, you know, that came into the office, a house, and that would learn all these skills on how to draft these ideas that I could give to an architect that could create. I don't believe what my dad believed in me, right? He knew I could sell, and he was a sales guy, right? And so he gave me an opportunity. I was the top sales guy the entire time. People thought my dad was feeding me deals and that I was, you know, like, of course, he's Bill saw, no wonder his sales are so high. Never wants to my dad Feed me a single deal, but all I did was exactly what he told me to do. And I can tell you a funny story about that if you want.

[00:10:35] Dr. Nate Salah
But, well, let me ask you, this was this in conjunction with the same time you're selling drugs? Oh no, it was out of prison. You're out of prison. Well, let's go back to that. When you got pulled over with all those police officers, did you know you're going to jail?

[00:10:47] Jason Courtney
No, I was living in la la land, thinking I was making a lot of money selling drugs. Thought I was so

[00:10:55] Dr. Nate Salah
Al Pacino, huh? You get yourself a fancy lawyer. Good to go, right?

[00:10:59] Jason Courtney
Yeah. Motorcycle. A couple out.

[00:11:01] Dr. Nate Salah
Say Hello to my little friend.

[00:11:05] Jason Courtney
So I don't know who I thought I was. I was literally air. I remember one time, not this particular time, and I have to say I had a bail bondsman in St Louis and one in Lake of the Ozarks because I would get arrested all the time. And so there was one time I got pulled over. I think I just robbed a beer truck or something like that. I can't remember exactly what exactly what it was.

[00:11:23] Dr. Nate Salah
Wait, wait. Like a gunpoint?

[00:11:27] Jason Courtney
No, I would wait till these, uh, beer trucks would back up to like a Schnucks and start unloading from the back, and I'd lift up the sides and load my car with some bush. Yeah, I was too young to go get it, right? So I've never had a legal drink in my life. We can talk about that too. I quit when I was 20. Was 20, but the cop, I remember saying to my dad, will have me out in a half. And this cop, he told my dad that, by the way, my dad said, Well, leave his butt in.

[00:11:52] Dr. Nate Salah
So your dad believed in consequences and not withholding consequences

[00:11:57] Jason Courtney
Actually, I would say the contrary. Tell you another story. My brother and I rode dirt bikes all over the area where we lived, and we were always going out and having cops chase us, and we'd run off into the woods, and our dirt bikes really couldn't chase us. We, one time, got chased by an officer, and he wrecked his car. So they're definitely trying to find these two punks on these motorcycles driving around. And we got home and we took the motorcycle apart, put it in the garage, and made it look like there's no way we could have been the guys that were out doing this. Our motorcycle was in pieces. It doesn't even work. It wasn't us. And my dad thought that was so clever that we had gone through all the trouble to do this. He lied to the cops and said it definitely wasn't my boys their motorcycles.

[00:12:42] Dr. Nate Salah
But in this instance, where was he in this journey when you arrested, indicted, and sentenced?

[00:12:48] Jason Courtney
Yeah, this one was different, you know, because now this has gotten serious. This isn't Jason getting in fights and being pulled over with marijuana in his car, whatever he's going to prison, and what was the sentence? So, two counts of kidnapping, three counts of armed criminal action, first-degree burglary, first-degree robbery, and assault. All those happened in a four-hour period, by the way, which, again, during that time, I didn't think I was doing anything wrong, or maybe I did, but I must have dismissed it because I must do this. So the story is, one of my runners ran off about $20,000 worth of product. And the way it works when you're dealing, you know that much is it's all fronted, right? And then you have to go back and pay. So I couldn't pay my dope dealer. He couldn't pay his dope dealer, you know how it works, and then all of a sudden, someone's got to pay. So, I was the low man on the totem pole. So I thought it was really the guys that were working for me that were lonely toe pole.

[00:13:45]
So I went after him to try to figure out, Okay, what did you do with my money or my dope? One of the one of the two, he had developed a cocaine habit that I didn't know about, and he spent the money. So he got scared and went into hiding. And so I had to go find him, and that's where all this happened. So, I found his roommate. I said, you're coming with me, and you're gonna help me find him. I found another guy that I knew, that knew him, told him the same thing. So because I took those two guys against their will, kidnapping and the assault and the burglary and robbery is because some of the guys that were with me stole their wallets. I mean, just really ridiculous stuff. I never had a gun. I never, you know, call the things I said I did.

[00:14:25] Dr. Nate Salah
What was the term that you that was sentenced?

[00:14:27] Jason Courtney
I got 50 years. 50, 50.

[00:14:30] Dr. Nate Salah
50 years. Do you remember the sentencing? Oh, yeah, where your was? Your family there? Who's there?

[00:14:36] Jason Courtney
My parents were there. Do you remember that moment when the sentence was issued? Yeah, I wanted to kill my attorney. Your furious. I'm sure I was told I was getting 10 years, not 50. And so as the judge rattled off my sentences, I was doing the math in my head, and it came up to 50, and I didn't understand what it meant to run sentences concurrent versus consecutive. And. So I'm thinking, 50 years, rest of my life, yes, like, what am I going to do? Well, turned out to be a 10-year sentence because they ran them all concurrent, and so I only had to serve the biggest one, instead of serving all of them individually.

[00:15:13] Dr. Nate Salah
I can only imagine the looks on your period space, your mother's face.

[00:15:17] Jason Courtney
I don't remember it, but I can only imagine, however, my dad told me he loved me for the first time, it was worth it almost to hear him say those words. You know, it was like I've been trying my whole life to please this guy. And one thing he told me, after I got it, he said, Jason, you know, when you were in prison, I knew where you were, and I didn't have to worry about you anymore. That was another thing I'm thinking you worried about me. I didn't think you ever thought two sense about me. I was a burden to our household. You know, that was another moment where I thought, Oh, he never really said he cared about me until much later, but I was grabbing it whenever I could grab it. You know.

[00:15:55] Dr. Nate Salah
When he said that to you, that was a turning point, I suspect, in how, for how.

[00:16:00] Jason Courtney
For him, for sure, for me, I almost didn't believe it came out of his mouth, you know what I mean. But I never forget it. I could still hear it.

[00:16:09] Dr. Nate Salah
How just a reminder how impactful parents are to their kids and what they say.

[00:16:15] Jason Courtney
I think it's worse now than gone. They passed away. It was easier to talk about, yeah, when you can go to your house and say, Dad, I love you. And he said I love you too. Yeah, there's something great about that. And when they pass, it's over, yeah? I mean, like, that was another thing that really messed me up, especially as my career as an entrepreneur. It wasn't until my wife, I guess, depressed. I didn't feel depressed. I felt fine. But my production, my work, became minuscule. Now, I was lucky to be in a place where I didn't my income was being taken care of by passive income to where I didn't have to work. But my wife says to me one day, she says, you're in a funk. And I shared with my mastermind group, all right, same thing.

[00:17:00]
And they said, Well, you need to get out of your home office and go work in an environment with other people that are, you know, doing stuff like that. That's how I got connected with my partners. But my wife says to me, you always shared your wins with your dad. So every time I close a big deal, or I, you know, do some stuff, my dad would be like, Hey, man, would you close this week, you know, and there was this cheerleading thing going on. And again, I want to emphasize the last 10 years of my relationship, where my dad couldn't have been actually more than 10, probably close to 15 were just so he was my best friend. There was no more of this. He was teaching me finally, and now he taught me about business, not about life, right? Because he struggled with that himself. But I was grateful the camaraderie was made other people in our family jealous. It was so like that you and Jason have that type of relationship now, and my dad be like, yep.

[00:17:50] Dr. Nate Salah
And you had later in life, after you left prison, and you had a much different faith, spiritual journey. And a lot happened in prison. So you get to prison and you've got this 10-year sentence, and for those of us who have not served a prison sentence, just the thought of it is overwhelmingly scary. I mean, just wonder. You wonder right at the time, were you thinking, oh no, is am I going to be Bubba's best friend? Are you thinking, I'm gonna lick every person with my fists that I.

[00:18:22] Jason Courtney
No, it was fear like you've never experienced. So you don't really think about Bubba so much as death, right? Death is more of unnecessary fear Bubba. You don't have to worry about bubba. There's no gay guys in there to take care of. You make the wrong move and someone's when I first got Well, I'll tell you a little bit about the Diagnostic Center, because I didn't really it didn't hit me until after the gate shut behind me at the diagnostic center that I was not getting out for what I thought was and you hear that sound, right? Oh, and then you're stripped butt naked. You're sprayed down like an animal with these chemicals, and then they hose you down. I mean, it's just you're no longer a person anymore, if that makes sense. In fact, you're given a number, and you're identified by that number. I was no longer Jason Courtney. You're just a number. I needed to be humbled though I was an arrogant punk that thought my dad was gonna bail me out and I could do whatever I wanted. What an idiot, you know?

[00:19:20]
I mean, I was and I feel like I always learn things the hard way, and I was thinking about this actually on the way. Here I still do, but I don't know if that's so odd, I feel like we always learn more when we fail than we do when we succeed. Here I am thinking I'm unique that I learned the hard way. We all learn better the hard way, don't we? Yeah. I mean, that's your expertise.

[00:19:41] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah, oh yeah, yeah. That's the sting of experience the school of hard knocks, right? You're learning the hard way that door is shutting behind you. You're not getting back to smell that fresh air of freedom for a lot of years.

[00:19:52] Jason Courtney
One other thing that shocked me is I only got two pairs of underwear and two pairs of socks. And I thought to myself, how's this gonna work? I gotta be there seven days a week. That hygiene is getting easier there.


[00:20:06] Dr. Nate Salah
So you get to prison, you probably start making some friends. Now, where are you? And I know, because I want to make sure we talk through this, because your faith is your rock, but you didn't go in with a rock of faith, but you came out.

[00:20:19] Jason Courtney
I went in worse than not having I hated Christians. As a little boy, my mom would take my brother and I to church with us, and the deacons, I guess, and the elders. I'm not sure how they were structured. They were very mean to my brother and I. So I thought, so I'm like, That's what Christians are. Like, I don't want to be anything like them. Now, I was sober for about a year before I went in, because I was out on bond for two years. So I started to experience life without drugs, and it was pretty great. And so I wanted more of it. And so I found myself on a happiness quest. Is when I call it, I'm not sure that's what it was, but that's what I all I knew to call it. So I just wanted to be happy. I wanted my life to be not like this anymore. And so I joined AA to help me with my drug and alcohol abuse, and I turned myself into a treatment center and tried to learn how to live life without medicating my problems, right? Because drinking and drugs, those are all just symptoms.

[00:21:18]
They are not the problem. So if you're doing your listeners are dealing with someone with an alcohol and drug problem, trust me when I tell you that ain't the problem, they need to stop doing it to figure out, but they need to learn how to live life on life's terms. And I didn't know how to do that. My dad wasn't teaching me, right? This whole mentorship thing that is so important, which is why your groups are so important. And how many times in our group? Do we hear this absent father wound from people in our group? My dad never did. Taught me this, this, and that, you know. And now we get to say, no, no, my kids are not going through life, not being taught these things, and we're being more intentional about our lives. But if it wasn't for the group and those things coming up, would we do it? Probably not, you know. So I'm really grateful for grade seven and the ability to be vulnerable.


[00:22:04] Dr. Nate Salah
Absolutely, and the ability to be vulnerable. And that's right, put yourself in a place where it's safe enough to be vulnerable. Now, was the further were there safe spaces in prison to be vulnerable?

[00:22:15] Jason Courtney
No, in fact, here's my best description of what prison was like for me, and I think for everyone, it's the loneliest place on the planet, where you're never alone. So if you can try to wrap your mind around that feeling, that's what it's like. There's no joy, there's no hope, there's no peace, like you have to create that for yourself, and then hopefully other people decide to join your party, right? Which happened to me later on. But, yeah, sleeping with one eye open is a real thing, you know, once you get a cell. So there's something really nice about having a cell. If you have a cell mate, you only got to watch one guy, right? But when you're in an open dorm with 1800 people, I mean, this is a very dangerous situation to be in, everyone says you don't have to worry about the big guys, right?

[00:23:02]
It's the little guys you got to worry about. Nobody wants to fight the big guys. Now the big guys, I would say, they carry a lot of fear, because no one's going to fight them. That guy's going to get stabbed when he's at least expecting it, and there'll be nothing he can do. The other guys might choose to fight you if they think they can win. So I think the nicest guys are the big guys, because they don't want to create any riff. Their life's at stake.

[00:23:27] Dr. Nate Salah
Where were you in that between all those guys? Were you just?

[00:23:29] Jason Courtney
Well, So I got kind of lucky. I was in a dorm when I was challenged by other inmates. So everybody gets tested, if you will. I don't know if that's the right way to say it. And technically, this sounds very terrible, but it's simple, as long as you fight back, you're not going to win the fight. There's going to be 10 of them, you know what I mean. So you have to fight back. And I was lucky that when it happened to me, it happened in the dorm, and the more people that see that you're going to fight back, the easier your time is in prison, but I was a fighter. I was third in state in my division in Taekwondo. I mean, I could take you out.

[00:24:05] Dr. Nate Salah
You can. So it's almost like a rite of passage in that, you know, you're going to take some hits, you'll have some bruises, maybe even something broken, but it's part of the passageway to being heavy respect.

[00:24:16] Jason Courtney
Oh, you're going to get busted up pretty good, yeah. But the guys that curl up in a ball and don't fight, their stay in prison is the most miserable. It's almost makes me want to vomit talking about some of the things that happen to those guys. Because if you're a bully, are you going to take something from someone who doesn't fight back or someone who does? Right? So the crucial, it's crucial that you fight back. You're not going to win, but you gotta please don’t curl like a little ball, right?

[00:24:39] Dr. Nate Salah
So there's a toughness, but at the same time, you gotta be smart about how you go about it. But that's not always how it is in prison because there was a point where you had to have some vulnerability, especially when you were challenged with some bigger issues on your journey, your spiritual journey,

[00:24:58] Jason Courtney
Yeah, for me. In prison, I had a best friend, and him and I just talked last week, and it's been 20 years, right? So I got out, I went in, and 95 got out in 2000, so 24 years it's been you can't make it in there by yourself, and hopefully this comes across okay, but you have to kind of stick with your race too, because there's a lot of races inside the institution, and any intermingling of those races, whether you're Mexican, white, black, or Korean or whatever, you don't hang out with people, and now you have to do commerce, if you will, within those groups. But you don't they are. You stand up for your kind if you will. Now again, 24 years ago, maybe things are a whole lot different. Now, hopefully, they've figured out ways to make it. Do you really want prison to be nice? You don't want to make it nice. You know what I mean. But my buddy and I there, I can easily say there were at least two times in my particular stay there where my life was in danger.

[00:26:03]
And had it not been for my friend and Holy Spirit, which we'll get in later, I'd have been dead for sure, one for sure, the other one, maybe not for sure, but probably, and same for him. So we had each other's backs. That's another thing, right? So if I have a problem with you, I know I'm gonna also have to deal with four other people. And you know, Chris and I, we just basically took care of each other. We had other friends, too, but him and I were super tight, and you weren't getting through either one of us without having to deal with the other. And I think there was some protection of that from a secular perspective.

[00:26:36] Dr. Nate Salah
So tell me about how you were engaged at some point to not hate Christians anymore.

[00:26:47] Jason Courtney
So I was on this happiness quest, right? So I started studying world religions, and I really liked Hindus. You know, Hindus seem to be pretty cool. I could chill out and smoke weed still, you know, all this stuff. And so I enjoyed the meditation. For some reason, I got a lot out of the meditation stuff. And then I started digging into their beliefs. And it was very easy when you started looking at world religions to see how ridiculous they really are if you actually look into their origin and where they started. And when I found out that Hindus believed that the Earth sat upon a sea turtle who walked or was perched on four elephants? I'm thinking, No, they can't still believe that, like we have satellites now we've been up in space, we know there's no sea turtles and no elephants. And so I asked, and no, they still believed that that's where the earth sat upon the sea turtle. And I thought, okay, that's ridiculous. I'm out of here. I'm not that's not true.

[00:27:41]
I'm not going to believe that. So then I got involved with Jehovah Witnesses, and the Jehovah Witnesses fooled me, good. I mean, I thought they were the creme de la creme. They had the truth, if you will. And so I started learning about this Jesus guy a little bit, and I had been in AA, so I knew about God, and I knew that some things started changing in my life. When I stopped drinking, and I started applying the principles of AA to my life, I started seeing benefits to this. So I was like, oh, maybe there is really a God. This might be true. So which one now, right? So it's like, okay, I believe there's a guy, but which one? So I started searching all that out, which is why I got into the origins, but the last one I wanted to be true was Christianity because of my experiences as a kid. They weren't good. And I make sure I come back to that because I have to clear that up. Okay, so in the process of doing this, I believed in God, but I didn't know the significance of this Jesus guy.

[00:28:39]
But every single religion I studied dealt with this guy, and I'm thinking, Okay, I thought you would all have different people to do, but all of you are talking about this guy. Not everyone's talking about Buddha, you know, not everyone's talking about Joseph Smith, but everybody's talking about this Jesus guy. And so I don't think I was tainted about Jesus when it came to Christianity. I was just tainted about people that believe said they were Christians because I didn't think they were. I thought they were hypocrites. You know, that's probably a lot of people think probably is. Well, I did not want to be. My life was a total lie. I lied all the time through AA. I realized, in fact, in AA on how it works, the first paragraph it uses honesty, I think, three or four times. And honesty is the key to almost everything. And if you'll just tell the truth, if you'll just be honest about everything that you do, all of a sudden, your life starts getting better. So I knew I didn't want to lie anymore because my whole life was a lie. And look what it did. I wound up in prison like I really knew how to run my life, You know.

[00:29:41] Dr. Nate Salah
Was there anyone in prison or that was visiting prison that spoke to you and began to be instrumental in that journey?

[00:29:51] Jason Courtney
Yeah, so there was an organization called REC Weekend Residents Encounter Christ, and it's a Catholic organization that brings other. Church denominations in with them to the prison, and they share the gospel of Jesus Christ, and at the end, you get a home-cooked meal right. Now, let me tell you, I hadn't had a home cooked meal in two years. So here's some more really great God things. My buddy Chris was not working, but I did. I was working in the Advent building, so I couldn't sign up for this event, and I wanted this home-cooked meal bad. I'm like, Chris, you gotta, you gotta get my name on that list so you can't sign somebody else up. You have to wait in line. And don't think I'm not the only one that was a home cooked meal. And there's 18,000 inmates in this facility, right?

[00:30:37]
So Chris gets in line, gets to sign up, coughs or acts like he messed up and writes My name in, and I bet, and only like, I think, 200, and it reminded about 100 maybe 100 of us or 150 of us. So anyway, I'm in, and I'm getting my home-cooked meal. I don't care what they I don't even know if, what kind of an organization it was. I didn't care. I wanted cookies and I wanted home-cooked me. So we get there, and I walk in, and I see these, you know, just fold-out tables full of homemade cookies. And I'm like, Oh, this has gotta be what happened.

[00:31:08] Dr. Nate Salah
Like heaven, that's like an episode of Survivor.

[00:31:11] Jason Courtney
And then, I walked in, and this lady hugged me. I hadn't been hugged or embraced in two years, and when she did, I was like, What in the world was that? What is it that I'm feeling, you know? And I thought, Oh, well, she's a girl. Me. I haven't been with a girl in a while. Maybe I'm just hoarding, I don't know, right? But it was different. It didn't feel like that. It was something like a motherly even more powerful than that. I'm not sure I can think of a word. And so I thought, Okay, that was weird. So I grabbed a couple cookies, and I ran into this other lady that was a little farther down. She was an older lady like my grandma. She hugged me. She had a black eye, and we'll get into that later. I'm just like experiencing things in this event, like, I don't think you can do that anymore. You probably can't hug inmates. It's, I don't know, but they did when I was there, and it meant everything to me.

[00:32:01]
So I go in and I'm listening to these stories about Jesus and stuff, or whatever. They're sharing the gospel. I'm like, just trying to get through the day, because it's seven days right before you get your home-cooked meal. And so I'm listening all the stuff like, Hey, I'm going back to my cell every night. And I'm like, whatever. Don't really care. Then this guy gets up, and he says he was a younger guy, football player, big guy. And he says, Hey, there's a simplicity, guys. If what I'm telling you if you decide to live your life according to this book, and it's not one book, it's 66 books, right? We forget that often, 66 books of how to live your life. If you'll follow this, you're gonna have a great life, you're gonna have good relationships, you're not gonna hurt people, you're gonna actually help people. How's that sound for a life? Forget eternity. Forget it. He didn't even bring up eternity, right? He just says that's pretty cool, isn't it? And I was like, that's what I was looking for, this happiness quest, right? And I'm like, Okay, so now I'm listening.

[00:32:57]
And then he says, but if I'm wrong, that there is an afterlife and you're right that there isn't, and you die, you've lost, lost nothing. You've had this great life just by living by these principles. And I knew about principles because of AA right, and I applied them, and they worked, so I knew there was some truth in acting right. Then he says, but if I'm right and you're wrong, and there really is an afterlife, and you die and find that out, and it's too late, you've lost everything. This life here on earth is a vapor compared to eternity. A million years can go by in eternity, and you're still at the beginning. You know what I mean? How about this? 10 billion years could go by and you're still at the beginning, and I'm like, Oh, that's a pretty big you know, I'm doing this weighing out the odds here. And I'm thinking, Okay, now I'm going to listen to who this Jesus guy is and try to kind of figure that out.

[00:33:52]
But I remembered every religion I had studied was dealing had to say something about him, you know. So I knew there was some significance. So at that moment, I said, I'm going for it. Now. I didn't tell my buddy Chris because that was weakness, right? Because we're just here for the food. I'm like, okay, man, I think I'm gonna do this. And then the next day came, and this is what changed everything. This is gonna be hard for me to get through, Nate, so you're gonna have to fill the dead space here. But remember the old lady with a black eye? Yeah. So the very last day, they were doing what was called foot washing, which I was like, don't forget, two pairs of socks, two pairs of underwear. Everybody's feet stinks in prison. I'm just sorry, just the way it is. And I'm like, I ain't letting these people wash my feet. But all these other inmates were like, doing it, you know, they're going up getting their foot washing. This old lady, she sat right in front of me, just about as far away from me as you and I was kind of hiding in the corner, and she washed probably, I'm gonna say at least 15 to 20 inmates feet.

[00:34:52]
I'm glued to this lady because she's like my grandma. I'm thinking of her like my grandma. She got a black eye. Oh, she was mugged two days before this event by. Someone just like us that she was ministering to, right? And so that hit me, and I forgot to tell that part. That was a significant part. I'm thinking, Who is this lady that she would come in here and share goodness with the type of people that just beat her up and left her for dead and took her purse and she still had joy and peace in her life, and I'm like, Oh, does that happen, you know? So that's why I was glued to her, and it's, that's why it was important for you, because I'm watching this lady with everything in me, and I'm watching her wash these and meets feet. So everyone was done, and I didn't get my feet washed. And so she looks at me, and she does this to me. What am I supposed to say to grandma and black eye when she does that, you know? So I said, No things. I'm okay. I don't want my feet washed. She's just never said anything. Just whistled me over again or fingered me over whenever.

[00:35:51]
And so I sat down, took my socks off, put my feet in this bowl, and she went to grab the pitcher, and the pitcher was full to the brim. She could hardly lift it up. It was just full to the brim. Now she had already washed 20 inmates feet. I knew she washed 20 inmates feet. She knew she washed 20 inmates feet. How in the world did that pitcher get full of water again? So she looks at me, and I look at her, and I'm thinking, we're talking, but we're not talking. And I'm like, I don't know. She's like, do you see what I see? And I'm like, Yes, but I couldn't talk to her. I didn't know she starts a weeping. I wasn't in a place to weep just yet. Yeah, she knew that she had saw a miracle, and I was too skeptical. I wasn't sure what I saw. But that's when it really changed. It was in that moment when I think I had made a decision I was going to do this thing when that guy gave me my odds. But at this moment, he started speaking to me. I wasn't no longer in control of the outcome of my decisions.

[00:36:54]
Yeah, what was I supposed to do after that? You know? So she's weeping the entire time. She's washing my feet. I'm trying to figure out what in the world just happened. What did I see? And was this real? And she didn't talk to me too much because she was weeping, you know, like she knew something so special about me, something was happening for me right there at that moment. And she was a kind of a part of it, you know, she was a huge part of it for me, but I think she was saying thank you, Lord, for allowing me to see this or whatever. And so right after that, we got up her people that she washed their feet, we got in the circle, held hands, and began to pray, and I fell to my knees and wept in prison. It's just not a good place to be weeping and showing weakness, right? But it didn't matter anymore. I didn't give a rip about none of them guys, and I just remember thinking to myself, I'm more free now than I ever was before I was behind bars.

[00:37:55]
And it was this overwhelming feeling that I couldn't explain, but I understood love and freedom in a way that instantly, that I had never knew, knew so apart. And I wish that for everyone, but doesn't happen that way for everyone, you know, which was also an eye opener way much later in my walk, you know. But from that moment on, I became his and I did whatever I thought or was told was appropriate to be a follower of Jesus Christ at that very moment. And it was an easy road. It wasn't hard. It was easy. Like people say, Oh, it's going to be hard to be a Christian. No, it was so easy. I was so grateful. And, you know, I went around the entire institution telling everyone about this Jesus that I just met, which doesn't work very well either. I got punched in the face once. I got thrown out of a building once. But I thought like I got it figured out. I got life figured out now, and I want to tell everybody, but nobody until they're ready. Bit discerning, like I'm thinking, Did I just get fooled? You know what I mean? But I knew I didn't I mean the things that I understood after that moment. Oh, and about an hour later, they asked if anyone wanted to be baptized, and I raised my hand, and I was baptized the very next day by submersion.


[00:39:15]
So, one other twist, Chris wasn't telling me, and I wasn't telling him, but Chris got saved. The same stinking day, we both got baptized together, right? So it just solidified our friendship. You know what I mean, that even though we had different experiences at that event, we both encountered Christ and both got baptized. And I wonder, I don't know if this is true, but had Chris not also had an experience that day, how that would have hindered our friendship? And it was after that where Chris saved my life, and I saved his right. So would those things have occurred if only I became a Christian, or if only Chris became a Christian? I don't know. I think God knew, yeah, God knew that he had to take us both.

[00:39:55] Dr. Nate Salah
And your obedience in that in that moment, is part of that story. And even you wonder, had you not gone to prison? I'm sure you thought about that all the time.

[00:40:03] Jason Courtney
This is why I can talk about it, you know. I mean, like, I don't care because that's what it took for me, you know. I mean, and if that's what it takes for you, do it, go to prison, you know, because your eternity depends on it. And it's not a joke, you know, it's not a game. And it's like when people think I'm silly for being a Christian, I'm like, I think you're silly for thinking that we came from the goo to the zoo to you, we didn't. I mean, I believed in evolution. I believed in everything I was taught in school. It's the dumbest theory, right? Because it's theory of evolution. It's not the facts of evolution. It's the dumbest theory we've ever come up with as humans, and we're all willing to accept something so ridiculous. Instead of somebody designing the whole thing, and he's got a plan for you.

[00:40:51] Dr. Nate Salah
We have to have a part two, because you eventually get out of prison, and this is when the art I meet, yep, and I think that's a good point of transition for us to believe a cliffhanger for our listener, because that impacts your entire story as it moves forward, and how you've become a successful entrepreneur, not just because you're a smart guy, but because you've planted your life on a rock.

[00:41:16] Jason Courtney
Can I share something my wife sent me this morning? Absolutely. So there's some stuff going on in one of my companies that is heavy on me. I've had to get back involved in some things that I didn't really want to and so anyway, I was telling my wife about it, so just pray for me. Blah, blah, blah. Here's what she says to me, and I thought this might be really significant for your last comment. She says I love you. Big Daddy. Calls me Big Daddy. She said, You are the man for the job, not because you have what it takes, because he does, because I can do nothing of any internal value without him. And she reminded me of that today because I was taking it all on myself, like I know I can fix it. I know I can. I mean, I've done it before, but there's so many other components going on where I just this derailed my plans.

[00:42:06]
And so she's reminded me, you can let it go because he's got this, you don't have to worry about it. And can I tell you I had done nothing but wash dishes and sell drugs, as far as experience, and I have more than I deserve because of him, not because of me? I didn't go to college, but everyone that works for me did, right? I think that's an Elon Musk ringer. I thought that applies to me.

[00:42:35] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah, it's a good place to hang our hat and to be reminded of that power that's beyond our own hands.

[00:42:41] Jason Courtney
Well, guys, done some miraculous things in my life, and I can't wait to share them on part two.

[00:42:44] Dr. Nate Salah
Can't wait to have you back. Well, my friend, we did it again. I'm so glad you joined me on this episode of A Call to Leadership. If you've been with me on the show, listening in, you'll know this, but if you're new, you may not know that I created a free course for you, that you don't need to provide an email address. You don't need to go anywhere but to stay right here in the podcast. I created the very first six episodes of the podcast because I wanted you to have the kind of value that you need to take advantage of to thrive as a leader. So if you haven't done that yet, listen episodes one through six. I'll see you on the next episode. I'm Dr. Nate Salah, and this is A Call to Leadership.

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