My BarStory S02E10 - B. Nicole Bush and Allison M. McMeechan

Technology has put a whole new twist on the challenges of work and family. Senior Associate Attorney with the Family Law Group B. Nicole Bush, and Reminger Shareholder Allison M. McMeechan talk honestly about the reality of being a professional and a parent in a Zoom-powered world. New technology gives us new opportunities and often new stress! Hear the lessons they've learned and the challenges they still face in this latest episode of My BarStory.

Transcript

Kari Burns (00:05):
Hi, I am Carrie Burns, chief Strategy Officer of the Cleveland Metropolitan Bar Association. This year, our theme is in it together, focusing on mental health for attorneys. Join us as we dive into inspiring stories, challenges, and triumphs, highlighting the importance of wellbeing in the legal profession. And remember, we're all in it together.

Nicole Bush (00:27):
I'm Nicole Bus and I'm with the Family Law Group.

Allison McMeechan (00:31):
My name is Allison McMeen, and I am a shareholder with Reiner, so I thought maybe it'd be fun. Nicole and I were just sitting here talking about the fact that we haven't seen each other for maybe 20 years. I don't know, somewhere around there, 15 to 20 years. It's

Nicole Bush (00:47):
Been

Allison McMeechan (00:47):
A while. A lot has happened in both of our lives, and it might be helpful for us to first catch up a little bit, and I hope everybody will allow us the opportunity to do that. All right. You wanna go first?

Nicole Bush (01:00):
Sure. Yeah. I, I have been practicing since 2013, and I did not have kids when I started, but I now have two. And we have a, an 8-year-old and a 5-year-old, so two daughters, you know, it has been a challenge, I'll say that. How about for you? Yeah.

Allison McMeechan (01:21):
So I became a lawyer in 2004, and I became a mom for the first time in 2010. So I do think I had a little bit of an opportunity to get used to the practice of law and the challenges that come with it before I introduced kids into that equation. I have a son who's now 14, and he'll be a freshman in high school. And I have a daughter who is 12 and going into seventh grade.

Nicole Bush (01:49):
Do you remember what it was like when, when they were really little and then trying to balance all of that?

Allison McMeechan (01:57):
Yeah, I think I try to forget it sometimes. <Laugh>

Nicole Bush (02:00):
<Laugh>.

Allison McMeechan (02:02):
I just told a client today that my son was my easy baby. I didn't realize that at the time because he was my first, and I didn't know what being a parent meant. But looking back on it now, I realize how lucky we were. 19 months after James was born. We brought Harper into this world. She was screaming when she came in, and that continued for at least all of my maternity leave. <Laugh>.

Nicole Bush (02:30):
Oh my goodness.

Allison McMeechan (02:31):
And probably for the first 15 months of her life. So navigating full-time work, one baby, and then another baby who is definitely a little bit more difficult was a challenge. So I, I, I remember it, but I do say, I think I, I try to forget it. How about you? 

Nicole Bush (02:50):
It's the same kind of thing. It, I think the firstborns are a little easier on us. It's difficult enough having a new person in your family <laugh>, and it's a huge change and shift. So I feel like the first one gives you a little bit of a break in terms of certain things. And then the second child, you think you have it all figured out, and then they come in and, and same with me. My, my daughter Caroline came in kicking and screaming and, and still is. She's a lot of fire. Yeah. But that's, that's also what makes it a lot of fun. I definitely found that I have personally had a lot of what I would call maybe good luck with employers. I've had a few jobs since they were born, and I've actually can say that I've been lucky that all my employers have been very understanding and supportive.

Nicole Bush (03:44):
Because it gets hard for the scheduling or if daycare cancels on you, what are you gonna do that And technology. Yeah. Thanks Covid for that. Because now all of a sudden, you know, most of my, at least for my, my practice, most of the things are online or in Zoom. So I, I have found that that has made things so much easier. Oh, and e-filing that just wasn't even, I've only been practicing for a little over 10 years, but there was no e-filing for most of that time. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. So all those things I think have made life a lot easier for me. But I've heard a lot of the other stories. Yeah. And I think the biggest thing for me has been the pressure. Maybe I've put on myself to make sure everything works Yeah. At all times. And I'm firing on all cylinders, and I'm doing this, and I'm doing that. Is that similar for you?

Allison McMeechan (04:36):
Yeah. I think that we try really hard to be perfect at everything, and that's just impossible. When my kids were both born, I was working with a small firm when I passed the bar and made the choice to be employed at a small firm. I think my perception was that would mean more flexibility, more family friendly. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, that wasn't necessarily the case for me. That's based largely on, you know, one of the principles in the firm who believed in FaceTime and being there did not believe in remote work. And that was a challenge. I, as I said in in jest as it relates to my daughter, it, she was very difficult. And so I was tired all the time and found, I struggled a lot in those early years when I was practicing, just trying to, to understand that I didn't have be perfect at everything.

Allison McMeechan (05:28):
'Cause I really wanted to be. I did then find a, you know, I moved changed employment and my second firm was far more family friendly, which also helped because I had a three and a 5-year-old, and then a mom who was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. Oh my gosh. So I started a new position really at my worst, I would say. And, you know, the, the two principles in the firm were wonderful and very accommodating and allowed me a ton of flexibility that I didn't even realize was an option. They recognized that as a professional, I was able to get my work done, whether that was in the office or in a hospital room with my mom, or in my living room, or wherever I needed to be. I could still be a productive employee. Regers the same way. I mean, they have very, very strong family values and are very supportive of the women in the firm and specifically moms in the firm. We have, you know, women with newborns and we have women with, you know, college age and adult children. And so we've all navigated that path one way or another.

Nicole Bush (06:35):
That's awesome. I mean, I think getting away from this idea of the nine to five rubric that you're sort of stuck in even before, you know, the technology change, just, yes, I can work at eight o'clock some nights. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. Or maybe I have to log out to pick up my kids a little early, but then I can always just get back on when they go to bed. I mean, no, I don't love doing that. Don't get me wrong. But it, it's just nice to know I can, yeah. And then I, I feel like I can balance it out because I think for me, and I, I think I said this previously is for me it's been that mindset that you mentioned with one of your principals, just sort of the FaceTime thing. I even, I, I kind of feel that way myself in this weird way.

Nicole Bush (07:19):
Maybe it's 'cause it was drilled into me for a very long time. Although I know you don't need to do that to get things accomplished. It's something that I still have to remind myself that I can do this without always being in the office. And my employers have always been very understanding of that. It's been me and my own high expectations. Or not even high expectations, just sort of ridiculous. Sometimes if you can get things done and they are done and they're done well, it really should matter where they're getting done. Yeah. And I think just committing to good communication with everybody. And if a firm has that, I think it's going to be successful for everybody. And you're not going to have the turnover Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. But I think people are learning that as we go along.

Allison McMeechan (08:07):
Yeah. Well, I think Covid forced us to learn that we can have flexibility prior to the pandemic. I went into the office every single day that just, unless there was a reason that I, I couldn't be there, I was generally there every single day. And the pandemic forced us to realize that we can work remotely and successfully. I probably in some cases are more productive at home because there aren't the distractions of my office phone. Other, you know, colleagues coming in to chat, going to get lunch. I mean, the things that happen on the day-to-Day basis when you're in the office. I really can focus when I'm working remotely. And I do think you know, in order for employees to be successful, we have to be permitted some level of flexibility. It may not work for everybody. I, I think you have to be very disciplined.

Allison McMeechan (09:03):
But to your point, if I start working a little bit later in the morning, but then pick things up after, you know, my kids are in bed, I'm still getting the same amount of work done. It just may be at times that work for me. You know, my aunt just said to me the other day, I was talking to her about my kids and she said, you know, little kids, little problems, big kids, big problems, <laugh>. And I'm starting to realize that I'm getting into that phase. Sure. And they probably need me to be present more than they ever have. And, you know, we have activities and sports and things that require me driving them and Right. Activities in sports start at weird hours that people who work can't always accommodate. Right. So you really have to have the flexibility to be able to do all the things. And again, it may not, I think we all need to recognize that we may do all the things, but maybe we're not going to do them all. Perfect. And having that sort of realization has helped me to get along a little bit better down this road.

Nicole Bush (10:06):
Right. so you're basically, you're previewing for me my future <laugh> of Human taxi cab. Which I've, I've heard this. I'm starting, my, my oldest Charlotte is starting to get into that now. And I'm realizing that is a real coordination effort between everybody. Like, it's like my husband and also letting everyone know at work if I have to leave early and all this. So yes, you trade one set of, I don't wanna call them problems 'cause they're really not problems in a negative sense, but scheduling issues we, we will say with another. So that, that is interesting. So thank you for that preview and confirmation of what I face. But yeah, I think that when there's this idea that we want work to sort of be integrated into our lives, I think a lot of lawyers do this where work does kind of become an extension of us.

Nicole Bush (10:58):
Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And that's for good and for bad. I've kind of chosen to think of it as something I can embrace provided that work comes with me and works with me. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. It's not just about, well, I'm only a nine to five and then I completely check out. 'cause We both know that doesn't ever happen anyway. Yeah. Even if I make that effort, I'm still sometimes going to think about a case. I'm gonna be doing something. So if we're really embracing this idea that it's sort of an extension of us, I think that having that flexibility to integrate it in that way and have some flexibility and understanding has been really helpful. On, on the flip side of that, I, I do see where, again, there have been people that they get so anxious because they're not believed if there's something they have to do earlier, there's no trust.

Nicole Bush (11:45):
Yeah. And I think that's the other thing. You just have to build up that trust with, with your employer. And I don't know what that looks like at every office, but maybe I've overdone it <laugh> because look what I'm doing right now. Yeah. You know, here's my work product. Here's the, I guess, I guess a lot of us show it through billable hours. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Right. Look, I'm actually getting my billable hours in. And I'm sure that varies from office to office. Bigger firms may have more expectations on that. I think that's been something that there's ways of measuring that to build trust.

Allison McMeechan (12:20):
So yeah, if you're making your billable hours and you're doing it from your home it really shouldn't make a difference. Right. If your clients are being serviced people aren't calling and complaining that they're not hearing back from you and you are meeting whatever metrics you're supposed to meet, then I think it should be a no brainer that you're a candidate to be able to have that flexibility. You've proven that trust. I think it, my, this point in my career, after 20 years, I've earned that trust. I, you know, it may be different for young lawyers who are new to this Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> they may need to build that. Right. And then FaceTime might be required. I mean, I think that that's part of this discussion too, is it's not going to work for everybody right away. And I don't think we can ever really walk into a new employer with an expectation that we be given Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>,

Allison McMeechan (13:15):
You know, this amount of flexibility or this, you know, in return for what, I mean, I think we have to be able to show that, that, you know, we, we have earned the ability to do that in some regard, which isn't easy. Most women who have sort of gone through this and are certainly even in a different position of life than we are, they had to, I hate to say they had to earn it, but they did. Sure. And I think we have to too in some regard. And, and you know, at least to be able to sort of have an ability to say to your employer, look at what I've been able to do. Look at what I've accomplished. You know, I would like this in return, whatever that may

Nicole Bush (13:52):
Be. I mean, that's the employer side of things. I've, well, because I practice mostly in Cuyahoga County, the judges that I deal with are mostly female. And that's great. <Laugh>. You run into, without of course naming anything <laugh>, have you run into problems with court with scheduling issues? Something comes up. I know I've heard a lot of stories about that from other people. So I don't know if that's been your experience. Luckily it has not been mine. Yeah.

Allison McMeechan (14:18):
My cases, if I, if they are even in court, are generally non adversarial. And so there's a lot of flexibility in terms that's good of rescheduling and largely, at least in probate with the hearings that I'm having there by Zoom, which is so much more efficient. And I think helps clients also in terms of not having, you know, the flexibility perhaps to leave an employer. They're able to participate in a hearing remotely. It's a lot easier than having to come downtown for a, you know, non-adversarial guardianship hearing as an example. If a parent can do that from home or from their place of employment, it's a much less of a time commitment. And I'm finding most courts are amenable to having hearings remotely. Certainly some of the cases that I've had in, in farther counties recognize, you know, the economics also of a lawyer driving from Cleveland to Mahoning or Kasho or wherever that may be, where if you can participate by Zoom, you're certainly saving your client a lot of money as well.

Nicole Bush (15:18):
Yeah. That's what I have found too. I'm not complaining about that. It works for everybody. Yeah.

Allison McMeechan (15:22):
Well, and I have found with planning, most of my clients are more than happy to have at least an initial conversation by Zoom. It saves 'em from having to come downtown. Again, time-wise, it's much more efficient. I think there's, you know, people don't have to take off of work to schedule a meeting to talk to a lawyer about estate planning. They can do it over their lunch hour if it's a, you know, one hour zoom or whatever the case may be. And then you can do it for wherever they are. Last year in July, my son's soccer team made it to this national championship in Denver. Oh, wow. And so I brought my computer, I said, I'm going, I, I can't miss this. It's a once, possibly a once in a lifetime opportunity, but I am going to leave on Sunday. That was the end of pool play.

Allison McMeechan (16:07):
I had a ticket, I was coming home. Well, then of course they advanced <laugh>. And I said, okay, I'm moving my ticket and I'm leaving on Monday. You know, and then they advanced and I'm like, now I'm leaving on Tuesday. <Laugh>. But the beauty of that was I had my computer, I had Zoom meetings with clients from my hotel room in Denver. Right. My work was not affected. I was able to do both. I mean, I could see the, the soccer match and then I could jump on a Zoom and, you know, have my meeting with clients and everybody. It was, it was the perfect opportunity to really, you know, show to my family. Yes, we can have a lot of fun, but sometimes there does have the, the balancing as an adult is right. There has to be, you know, some work in here as well. But I was so thankful for having that opportunity to be able to do that and be able to stay and, and participate in something that was so important.

Nicole Bush (16:57):
I think a lot is placed on us too as females that expectation that we're always going to be available at all times with our children, which of course I wanna be, don't get me wrong. But it, it, you know, sometimes if just like anybody who works, I mean, there's something that comes up, are you really present? Those kinds of things. And so, yeah. I agree that it's nice that we can actually kind of intersperse our commitments with our family, with, with work, so that we can be there for these moments like you described. I think that's something that I never knew even when I was barred that that's possible. It just wasn't even something that was really discussed Yeah. That I was aware of. Of course, I worked in an office where technology was not the strongest, you know, God bless 'em. Yeah. but, you know, as things have emerged and, and been innovative, it, it's been a huge change. So I'm just grateful that we can now do these things without too much of the scrutiny that comes with, you know, what I, what I've seen in the past with some people and what I've heard from others. So,

Allison McMeechan (18:04):
Yeah, I think it generally makes for happier people. I mean, at least I, I find that I am, I love my Tuesday work from home day where I am just operating at maybe a bit of a slower pace. I'm not running in the door from the gym, getting in the shower, getting back out on the road, commuting downtown. It's just, it's slowed things down a little bit and affords me an opportunity to spend time with my kids in the morning that I wouldn't otherwise have. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And those are the moments that I really think if I'm not there, I'm missing out. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> on a lot, you know, as they get older. I think just being there for the conversation to listen to what they're talking about amongst each other, it helps me to feel much more connected to them. And I think having the flexibility in, in my work life allows me to be more present for them. Right. And I wouldn't not want to work, you know, I mean it's, yeah, I want to work I want to do what I'm doing. But I do think that right now work has taken definitely a backseat to, to my family life. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And I think that as we go through our own lives, there are going to be times where we will have the ability to focus more on work. And right now, you know, I'm trying to focus very hard on my kids. Yeah.

Nicole Bush (19:21):
It's an ebb and flow, and you're not always going to have your kids in your house forever. Right. And it sometimes it feels like forever when you're having moments, every single parent I've ever met from the very start, and sometimes it was annoying to hear was, you know, it all goes by so fast. And I'm thinking, okay, that's fine right now. 'cause I'm exhausted and I wanna cry. But they're so right. And I can see that. I'm glad they said it because it does make you focus on what's really important and, and how can work fit into that. I'm so grateful that I work because it makes my mind sharp and fresh. And I, these other people who mothers who are able not to work, I admire them so much that they're able to do that. And I, I just wasn't one of those people that could keep very sharp <laugh>. Yeah. Like, when I, I was ready to come back to work and balance my life after maternity leave each time, I just felt it made me sharper and better. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> for parenting as well. So I'm glad that we get to do that now.

Allison McMeechan (20:25):
Yeah, I do too. I think that there are so many opportunities for women to continue to stay present and continue to stay in the workforce and continue to do all the wonderful things that we know that we can do. You know? Yes. In some cases it might require an accommodation, but that doesn't make us any less than Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> in terms of an employee. In fact, if anything, I think it probably makes us a better employee. Right. and you know, I, I agree with you. I mean, sharp is a great word. I mean, it's, I'm, I think I'm so much more hyper-focused at work when I'm doing, when I'm at the office. And then when I'm home, I'm able to say, now it's time for me to focus on my family or what, whatever it might be. But it is nice to be able, I think having a balance is, you know, so important.

Nicole Bush (21:13):
Absolutely.

Allison McMeechan (21:15):
Should we keep talking? What do you think I could talk about all the laundry that I have to do and <laugh>

Nicole Bush (21:22):
Makes,

Allison McMeechan (21:22):
Make for dinner tonight? Because those are the other pieces of it Right. That we don't actually, I mean, that is a big part of this actually. Yeah. Is we're focusing so much on talking about work. That's so true. But it's all the other things that we do when we

Nicole Bush (21:33):
Go home that

Allison McMeechan (21:33):
Is also work. Yeah.

Nicole Bush (21:34):
And you're not actually clocking out. No, no. In fact, I mean, I would argue that my <laugh> I would argue that I'm much better at my job than I am at home when, because it's like I get home and I feel like I'm failing all over the place with laundry and food. And I, I am usually, thankfully my husband and I share a lot of that load, but, you know, he can't do everything <laugh>.

Allison McMeechan (22:00):
Sure.

Nicole Bush (22:00):
So, you know, I, and he's working remotely most of the time as well. So that's really helpful. So we've been able to tag team a lot of things. I don't even know how people do this by themselves. I mean, amazing to me. But Yeah. I, I fail so much at home. I am like, maybe if I took my work mentality back to home and I was like, you know, very organized. It just doesn't happen. Yeah. Something. Totally. It's like I shut down <laugh>. Right.

Allison McMeechan (22:26):
I know. I mean, I specifically recall one instance when, I don't know, it was like dressed like a superhero day or something. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> and my daughter's school, and Okay. I forgot. I, I mean Right. But also she is old enough arguably to Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> remember if it was important and she was so upset. And I just remember looking at her and saying, could you just gimme a break, Uhhuh? I mean, I just, I I'm sorry that it happened. Right. But also give me a break because I have so much on my mind all the time. Right. And it's not that superhero day was not important. It just wasn't at the forefront of my mind. Right. And I think that's the other thing where we start to feel probably, I, I mean, I think that's where I put the most pressure, at least on myself, is because I don't ever wanna let anyone down, whether it's my client, whether it's an employer, whether it's my husband, whether it's my children.

Allison McMeechan (23:21):
I mean, I, my friends, you know, I don't want to let anyone down. And quite frankly, that's exhausting. Right. It's guilt. So I think think it's managing expectations and just sort of saying, I'm not gonna remember all the things all the time. I'm gonna try my best. Right. I've never been the mom that will bake something for the class party. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. But I promise you, I'll bring him as many plates and napkins and <laugh> all the things that you might need. Happy to help. You want a donation. I'm happy to contribute to the extent that I can. And my son, actually, now we joke that this is like an something that they understand in our family too. He took a Spanish class and they had a party. And the, the party, the first semester he signed up to bring salsa. What he didn't tell me was it actually was supposed to have been homemade salsa. Oh. <Laugh>. So I of course, went to the store and I bought him barrio salsa, and he then tried to tell the teacher how he made it

Nicole Bush (24:17):
<Laugh> Oh, wonderful.

Allison McMeechan (24:18):
In class. So when the next party came up, he texts me from school and he goes, mom, you'd be so proud of me the minute she opened up the spreadsheet to sign up, I signed up for plates. And I was like, that's my boy <laugh>. Yeah.

Nicole Bush (24:32):
No, that's, I think that's important though. Like, you know what you're able to do. Yeah. And you're setting those limits and boundaries, and you don't have to be the person that makes all the food, the brownies or whatever. And there's people I know that would actually say, oh, you have to do that. You know? No, you don't. Mm-Hmm. I could buy the brownies. It might be a better use of my time. And everybody's time where you can watch me freak out <laugh> 11 o'clock at night trying to get the brownies done. Yes. And Oh, I forgot about it, you know? Yeah. It's, it's just, there's only so many hours in a day, and I do some things well and some things not well, you know, and there'll be other weeks where I'm on top of it, I got the brownies done.

Allison McMeechan (25:15):
That's right. You know,

Nicole Bush (25:16):
And, but those are few and far between, of course. Yeah. But, and I

Allison McMeechan (25:21):
Don't think that your children will ever think about the fake that you bought store-bought brownies.

Nicole Bush (25:27):
I don't think so either. I don't either. Because I, I'm pretty sure my mom did that a couple times. And it's not a memory, it's just I'm sure she did. Right. Because I certainly, if she didn't, I don't remember. Oh, yes. She was in the kitchen for hours and I'm so grateful. <Laugh>. Yeah. I don't remember that. So,

Allison McMeechan (25:43):
<Laugh>, well, my mom was a p pediatric nurse practitioner. Oh, okay. And, you know, after she passed away, the amount of people that reached out to me to tell me what a difference she made in their lives Oh wow. Was so incredibly overwhelming. And like, that's what I remember about my mom. Right. I don't remember that we bought a Halloween costume versus making one. Although she did make them, which is also remarkable because she worked full-time as a single mother and, you know, managed to do that stuff. But I remember everything that she did really well, you know? Right. And I, I hope that that is what my kids will remember. Right. You know, is what I did well. Right. Of course, I did things that were not great. Sure. but it's really more about focusing on you know, the positive attributes that we have and, and hopefully being able to focus more on those. Because I'm not acting like a lunatic having to make brownies at 11 o'clock at night. Right. Instead, I'm completely relaxed because I picked them up at Giant Eagle before I came home.

Nicole Bush (26:44):
<Laugh>, you're just a smart, you're smart shopper. That's right.

Allison McMeechan (26:46):
Exactly.

Nicole Bush (26:47):
I, well, and I just think I wanna be, I wanna be some, somebody that my girls look up to, and that they see that sometimes it's really difficult and that's okay. Yeah. I mean, we try the best to do what we can, and sometimes I'm gonna make a mistake and I'm gonna forget. Or maybe I got it all together this week. That's always wonderful. And then I'll fail the next week. It's fine too. Yeah. But you know, I wanna be able to pro promote the idea that you can love what you do, which I do. You can whatever it is that you choose to do with your life, whether you're working or whether you choose to stay at home, whatever it is that your passion is, that you can pursue that and also make room for <laugh> for family, of course. And also for making mistakes and laughing at yourself every now and then. And also pulling your hair out occasionally they'll see it all. Yeah. And they know that. Well, I can do it too, <laugh>. Yeah.

Allison McMeechan (27:45):
So, and it is okay to fail. Yeah. I mean, that's, you learn from failure. Right. We all have failed and we're going to continue to. Right. You know, and I, you know, I tell my kids it's the same thing with, you know, what we do, if you make a mistake, just own it. You know, people are gonna be much more receptive to your honesty, you know, that you made a mistake rather than trying to work around it or cover it up or tell some sort of tale. And, and, you know, at the end, I feel the same way with clients. If I make a mistake, I own it. And it's very rare that I've had people Right. Not be understanding. Right. 'cause you know, we're all gonna make mistakes.

Nicole Bush (28:23):
We're not computers, we're humans. And I think that's exactly right. It's sometimes really hard to just, it's like pulling off a bandaid really quick when you make a mistake in you're, oh my gosh. Ugh. But I always tell my girls that's the best way to go. And I said, mom makes mistakes. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And you have to be very straightforward and get it done. Yeah. Just get out there with it. So, yeah. Absolutely. Well, I, I really do appreciate the opportunity to speak with you again, Allison. It's been a really long time and I really enjoyed having this conversation with you.

Allison McMeechan (28:57):
Yeah. I'm so glad that the bar brought us together. Yeah. and what a fantastic topic for the bar to be focusing on. Absolutely. I think it's really a wonderful opportunity for all of us working women to know that we aren't perfect and we don't need to be. You've got two very accomplished women here who understand that they're not perfect either, but we just do the best that we can.

Nicole Bush (29:20):
Absolutely.

Kari Burns (29:20):
Thank you for listening to another My Bar Story. We truly are all in it together. Would you be comfortable sharing your own stories, like the ones we just heard? Visit c metro bar.org/mental health and sign up. We'll see you soon with another Bar Store.