Authentic Storytelling Builds Trust | Jason Cercone | Ep. 21

What if sharing the authentic story actually got us better results? What if being real was more important than being perfect?

Jason Cercone joins me on the show today for a conversation about brand authenticity and storytelling. Although imposter syndrome might keep us too afraid to share the good, bad, and ugly, doesn't it also make us human? The journey to hitting our goals or building a platform like a podcast (which happens to be Jason's speciality), is not linear... 

It takes putting ourselves out there even when it's scary and learning to befriend failure as a teacher. As Jason shares in the episode, it also takes commitment and perseverance. The myth of overnight success might be alluring, but authentic relationships of trust are built in the challenges along the way. To share the authentic story is not only healing for us as individuals, but it gives others permission to be their whole human self.

In this episode:

• Why authentic storytelling gets better results
• The importance of building trust as a brand
• The connection between personal evolution and brand evolution
• Why staying in integrity yields better results
• How play and curiosity keep us going when mastering a craft (like podcasting)

Meet Jason Cercone

With nearly a decade of experience in the podcast world, Jason Cercone has built his brand around the consumptive power of storytelling and simplifying podcast guesting. He helps leaders craft their authentic story and tell it with confidence as a podcast guest while simultaneously maximizing the value of each guest appearance and establishing thought leadership in their niche. You'll also find him hosting Evolution of Brand, a podcast featuring stories and strategies for building an authentic personal brand.

Learn more: https://jasoncercone.com/podcastguestingsimplified/

Transcript

Unknown: 1:01

Hey leaders, I'm joined today by Jason silicone. Jason is a podcast branding strategist and he supports people to find their authentic voices through podcasting, he supports people to find their authority, find that their thought leadership and really have that shine through in their respective niche through the really powerful platform of podcasting. In today's show, we're gonna get into the power of storytelling as both a technology and a medicine, for revealing the often unseen aspects of the human journey towards success, and towards reaching our goals. The journey to becoming a thought leader and finding your authentic voice, shining your light out in the world can be a difficult one. Often, the journey of entrepreneurship is actually a spiritual journey of personal transformation, and self discovery. Because we are faced with our biggest fears, our insecurities, the imposter shows up at every turn, when we are about to grow to the next stage of our evolution. Inside the episode, we're getting into all of that, and more. And we're not shying away from the hard stuff that can come up on the path to evolving your brand, which is really evolving yourself, our brand our businesses, what we stand for, this is all an extension of who we are as leaders. And today, Jason has a lot to bring to the table around how we can be thinking about this, and using it in both the evolution of our brands and the evolution of ourselves. Let's get into it. Jason, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to share your gifts and your wisdom with our listeners today. Thanks for being here. The call, thank you so much for having me. I'm really looking forward to hanging out with you today and having a great conversation. Likewise, Jason, one of the things that I admire so much about the work that you do is the way that you're connecting the journey of branding, and all that comes with that all that comes with investigating that personal brand, helping it grow, having an impact in the world, and the connection that has with the personal transformation journey. And I want to I want to start by asking you, How did you choose this as as your life's work? Like why is this your why? And what are some of your favorite parts of doing this branding work with people? Well, we and we should clarify a lot of the branding work that I specialize. It's in the podcasting space. And I feel that this platform allows so much freedom to explore your stories to explore your authentic self. And to have all of this come into the world in a way that can be easily absorbed. And something that I've been grabbing very tightly to lately is the fact that I get to have a phenomenal conversation in this moment. As we sit here right now you and me in a call this is one on one. And I get to connect with somebody that's like minded, we get to share ideas, we get to learn about one another. And the byproduct is the fact that the audience is now hearing the conversation and they get to experience it and learn from it as well. So I look at podcasting as a phenomenal platform for building relationships. And to me, that's what life is all about. So that's why I love what I do and how I got here was not planned. And I always tell this story. I got into podcasting back in 2015. Well, after I'd finished my undergrad studies, well after I went to I went to Duquesne University here in Pittsburgh for my master's degree in leadership. And podcasting was something that I never even really knew what it was I had got my first iPod. And there was a little section that said podcast and I remember thinking what the hell is a podcast. So pretty much just breezed over it for many years until 2011. I met someone that did a podcast and he told me more about it. I'm still friends with him to this day. And then in 2015, my friend and I launched a podcast. And we did so for the wrong reasons. We did it out of spite, because I felt that I could do better than this guy who was trolling me on Twitter about something else I was doing in my professional career. It was very, very silly. When I look back on that, I look back on it with fondness and I always smile because I say it got me started. But it was the worst reason to start a podcast and never should I be comparing myself to others, especially when I had no experience. But what I've learned in my time in this space and connecting with so many people, whether it be just through having these conversations through the microphone or working with them more intimately. Everybody has a story to tell. Everybody has this authentic side to them. Sometimes they need to tap into it a little deeper than they are sometimes it takes a little bit more effort to get to that authentic story. But once you bring it out and tell it to the world, and it starts hitting the right people in the right way. You can see a person make a big break through. And I can't get enough of that I love seeing other people succeed. I love seeing people take their brand to the next level, because they're utilizing all of these tools that have been inside them the whole time. So to wrap things up, that's why I love what I do. And I can't get enough of that fact, I get to do that every day. It's pretty friggin awesome. It's amazing. And as someone who has struggled with finding my authenticity, and my voice, is at least in the beginning of my journey into podcasting into bigger expressions of leadership over the years, I can really hear the pain in that moment that you that you're alluding to where, you know, you have something authentic to offer, but you don't yet know how to communicate it to the world. So I guess, talk to us a bit more about what is that suffering in the people that you're noticing? What what are some of those pains that they're feeling? And then what's the transformation that that you've seen them go through on their journey to having greater impact, essentially, because this is a really powerful journey for each of us to go on of really getting to know ourselves and then translating our authenticity into impact? So what have you seen in in the people that you've been working with, I think the biggest thing that holds people back at the very beginning is imposter syndrome. And that creeps up often. And sometimes even after you've made major breakthroughs, and you've reached many different levels of success, it can still creep in, it can still be a very nasty culprit. And I think a lot of that makes people say no one wants to hear my message. No one cares about my story. What do I have to offer that somebody else hasn't already said 15,000 times. But what people fail to realize in the very beginning is yes, your message, your knowledge base everything, you know, that may have been put out there. But it's been with somebody else's story tied to it. Nobody's heard it with your unique spin on it yet. So once you find experiences that have happened in your life, and you're able to tie that together with what you do, I most entrepreneurs start their businesses start their brands, because they discover a problem, they feel they have the solution for it. And then more than likely they've experienced that problem themselves. So they have stories that tie into what they're trying to accomplish. Once they get to that point, where they realize that their spin on this is unique. It's different. And it might appeal to person A, when person eight heard that same message from somebody else and said, This isn't for me. It's all about attracting the right people and people love stories. I love a good story. Nicole, you love a good story. It's why we watch movies. That's why we watch TV shows, it's why we get invested in the content that we consume. So when you're telling your story, maybe the break, or I should say not maybe absolutely the right people are going to resonate with your message, the wrong people may turn away, and that's okay. You don't have to appeal to everyone. And if you try to, that's a fool's errand, you just can't do it. There's just no way to satisfy 100% of people 100% of the time, you're going to have detractors. And as soon as you can make peace of that, and start focusing more on the value that you have to give, that's when the transformation starts to take place. And that's when the breakthroughs happen. And that's a big thing. And as I said, I applaud and push people towards the podcasting platform, because there's so many opportunities to find shows in their niche, where their passions lie, and connecting with like minded individuals that are creating content based around those passions. If there's a connection, and there's synergy, and you do it strategically, you do the whole process, right? magic can happen. And that's when your story starts to resonate with the right people. And they start to come into your world where you can continue to bring value to them. And then when they know it's the right move for them to make a purchasing decision, or invest in something that's going to change their life, they now trust you as the resource that's going to help them reach that transformation. So in the beginning stage, it's it's overcoming that impostor syndrome. And once you get to a point to where, you know, the right people are going to resonate with your story. That's when things start to unfold in a very powerful way. I love it. I think this point about not diluting your niche in favor of trying to get everyone to like you basically, I think that is so key because what you're pointing to here is a level of trust that is embodied, at least that's what I was really hearing what you were saying where if you're embodying your authenticity and very clear there it was standing in the truth of your niche. People will feel that and they trust you because you are trustworthy, basically, right? Like you're you're standing In that truth of yourself, and I do think that's such an attractor. And I think back to moments when, when I've looked out at the landscape and maybe done a competitive competitive analysis, or started to look to people or accounts on social media that I've really admired. And you started to get into that emulation game a little bit of how do I be like them? How do I replicate what they're doing? Like I am seeing their version of success? And maybe I'm wanting a piece of that. But in emulating that to a tee? Am I sacrificing a piece of myself? Or am I missing? What my authentic niche would be that that part like you said that no one else can contribute to this world? Because that is that is your unique gift that no one else has? No one will say it in the way that you do. No one will show up to the challenge and the exact way that you do. So yeah, I'm really appreciating that distinction of don't get caught in the comparison game. shining in your uniqueness is part of the journey to success, and the inner transformation that comes from being with your inner imposter or befriending your inner critic. I mean, these are really difficult things to do. And I'm curious in what you've seen, how have you personally overcome that? Or how have you seen others overcome the hurdle of, of the imposter syndrome when that does creep up, because you're right, even when you have more and more success, it does always show up again, and we go to that next level? Well, it's the old adage of, there's always a faster God, right. So even if you've reached a high level, somebody else is probably higher. And when you see that, you might say, Oh, God, I'm not there yet. But again, you have to almost develop tunnel vision, to where those highlight reels that you're seeing, no matter where you're at, in your journey. If you get captivated by these highlight reels, you're not going to truly appreciate everything that went into the whoever created that highlight reel, like what they had to do to get there. And that's something that I advise anybody that's looking at social media, if you see somebody that's talking about all these grand things they've accomplished, I applaud them for doing that. But you don't know exactly what it took for that to happen. Or if that's just what they're putting on the surface, because you might pull the curtain back and discover chaos at every juncture. So you can't get fixated on what somebody else is doing. And live in a highlight driven world. You have to write your own story and keep your focus on what it's going to take to make that story come to life. And you develop it as you go, you get more confident in the message you're bringing to the world, and you don't let outside forces dictate what you need to do. That requires patience. It requires a dedication and commitment to what you're trying to accomplish. And if you start to venture outside of that, that's when those highlight reels and all these things that other people are accomplishing can really start to mess with your head. And it can tell you that you're not good enough. And that will throw you off anything that you might be doing. If you're starting your own podcast. If you look at somebody else has been around for 20 years with this massive audience, and you wonder why you don't have one? Well, it's because they've been around for 20 years. You can't expect that to happen overnight. Many, many podcasters do come into this thinking, I'm gonna start a show and everyone's gonna listen to me. But then when they don't they get disappointed and think they're not good at it. No, it's the wrong way to look at it. You have to start from the beginning and get good at your craft and develop captivating content that makes people want to pay attention to you. When people start to pay attention to you, they start telling others to do the same. That's how you grow. That's how you build an audience. But so many people want that quick fix because they saw a highlight reel. And they don't get it and they walk away. And that transcends podcasting. That's something that affects us at a lot of different ventures that we have in our world. Like I said, I've just gotten to a point where I spend less time on social media. Because what I've discovered and this is more of a personal thing, I could be wrong. I could be right. But it does vary from time to time. But we're in a very algorithm driven social media world now. So reels and tiktoks and algorithms trying to predict what we want to see. And at times, I could scroll through three or four reels and say, well, the algorithms off today they have no I don't want to see this. This has no bearing on my life. And it's not helping me grow. But other times for whatever reason, they'll feed me a bunch of motivational stuff. That's the kind of thing I'd like to pay attention to. So again, that algorithm is trying to figure us out and bring us this message of what we want to see But there's more to gain from just keeping our eye on the ball, not letting that throw us off course. fixate yourself on the right things. That's how you'll grow. And that's how you can overcome any of that impostor syndrome that might creep into your life at any point in your journey. This is incredible advice for so many reasons. And I feel like, yeah, putting the blinders on and having that devotion to your craft, as you named. It isn't a fair comparison to compare ourselves to someone who's been doing it for 20 years. And yet, we totally sensationalize the overnight success, the entrepreneurs on Shark Tank, the, I mean, even falling in love, right and having this big, love story, and it's quick and all Yeah, now you're in it. And it's just not just not what the journey truly is, the journey often looks more like a squiggle, which I know there are many frameworks out there that kind of point to this. But we certainly use that terminology in the sustainability Executive Education course at Harvard that I'm a part of. And it's amazing what happens when you acknowledge that the journey isn't linear, because I think people relax into, Oh, I'm not, I'm not behind, it's okay to be human. It's okay that I took this detour. And then this thing happened in life. And now all of a sudden, I'm having the to be over here. And oh, I tried this, I prototyped I got got it wrong. And seeing that not actually as wrong or as a failure. But I think this whole overnight success culture and the devaluing of failure as a form of learning, keeps us stuck in that highlight only culture and only showing the positive not showing the dark shadow work, even the the difficult inner moments where maybe you're coming off of a zoom call or shutting down a podcast and you don't love how it went. And now you're crying and having to pick up the pieces or really nurture that inner child or whatever it is. Those are the stories that I hope we tell more of as medicine for our humanity of it's okay, it's okay to to be messy. We are kind of messy as a species. It's okay to embrace failure to because if you learn from it, there's no shame in it. And that's where I feel that we've lost that message as we've moved on. And as a society, and personally, as we've grown up into adulthood from childhood. It's like we had this, I don't even know what to call it. This. This is a complete mindset shift about how we embrace failure and learn from it. As we sit and record today, I posted a new episode of my podcast on LinkedIn. And part of the message that I put along with a little video to push people towards listening. It was it was an episode about pricing and charging what you're worth. And I put in there full transparency, I struggled with this big time. But getting help with it and understanding how to charge what I know my value is has changed everything. It makes me feel better about the work that I do. I know that so many people struggle with that. So I don't want them to think that it's always been right. For me, it's always been perfect. No, I've gone through the same pain. And I've grown from it. I learned from that mistake. Think about infants, infants don't just come out running down the road at full speed, swaddled there, we handle them with such TLC, we don't want anything to happen to them. And then as they start to get a little older, they start to move, then they figure out, they can roll over, then they crawl, then they start to pull themselves up and they walk and they fall 100 times. And we look at that and say well, that's they're just trying, they're just trying to get better when every time they fall. That's a failure. But they we obviously don't have they don't have the logic concept built yet. So they are going to follow them to try again and fall and try again. And then they get it and they start walking and they start moving faster, then you can't keep up with them. And they're taking off in the store. And there's this evolution of how a person goes from hardly moving to walking. And there was so many failures along the way. But we never think twice. Fast forward to adulthood. We try to run so far from failure, because we think we just can't put this blemish on the world because it's going to completely demean us as a person. No, it shows that we're human. And it shows that we are going to try something we're going to make a mistake and if we do make a mistake, we're going to evaluate it, determine what worked and what didn't and then say okay, I can take a little bit of what worked and apply it to how I try tomorrow. I'm going to be much wiser. I'm gonna gonna be a much better position to succeed. That's what we have to embrace. No matter what you're doing anything in your professional journey, even your personal journey, if you aren't willing to accept that failures are inevitable, and they can be treated as learning experiences, you're going to hold yourself back in a major way, because you won't try things. Because you're going to be afraid of a negative result, you have to look at that negative result as a teaching moment, that will make you a more well rounded, professional or more well rounded person. And then you utilize all of those skills to just blow things out of the water as you move forward. takes time, it takes patience, and it takes perseverance. But it also takes a strong will and mindset of understanding that even if I fail, doesn't matter, think about I always compare this to golf. I don't play. I mean, I play a ton. I'm not the best golfer in the world, I put my fair share of shots in the water, so does Tiger Woods, we don't just throw our golf clubs away and stop playing the sport. We look at that mistake and say, Okay, what do I got to do to improve and get better from that shot, Tiger Woods has the best rule, you're allowed to be mad at yourself for 10 yards. After you get 10 yards from where you hit that shot, you can't be mad at yourself anymore, you have to start thinking about what's next. I think we start treating our failures with that same respect, okay, I'm gonna allow myself to be mad for a minute. But I got to start thinking about what's next. That's gonna put us in a better position to succeed on our next drive. I love that mentality of I'm going to feel this, but I'm going to put a time limit on it. And then I'm gonna think about what's next that that relationship to, to failure, there's a couple of things in what you said that are really standing out. One is it let's just stick with the golf metaphor for a second. Golf isn't only hitting balls is waking up early, having the self responsibility to get a tee time that you want it is knowing how to drive a golf cart and everything that came before that, and so on and so on. And, and then there's the relational aspect of who are you with on, you know, out there playing golf with and what are those conversations that are happening. And I think often when we look at work, or when we look at the output only the product only, we're not seeing the other half of the cycle. And we talk a lot about this on the show, because a lot of our listeners are doing things like cycle thinking, they're starting to design their business models in more seasonal ways as a way to mimic nature, instead of being in this mechanistic view of seeing our organizations only as a machine. Instead, we're starting to see them as living systems. And nature has spent 3.8 billion years prototyping and failing and learning and doing exactly what we're talking about here. And she has figured out the power of seasons in in many places, right, and so to have a season of rest, or to have a season of reflection, feeling and then getting back out into the action, and only then getting back out into the producing or the harvesting is a very different mentality than then we're used to. But I think one thing that you're really hitting home, for me here is making the unseen, seen through through the stories of trials and challenge. And that it actually for me, there's a layer of integrity or dishonesty if we're only telling the glorified part of the story. And we're not sharing the vulnerability of what it actually took to get there. And what did I have to overcome? And what mindsets did I have to break through to even be able to be this version of myself who can now stand in the face of this next fear? Because the neck like next will always be there. It's we're always in constant motion. And so when we think about our relationship to fear and some of those mindset breakthroughs, you've pointed out a couple of kind of mindset shifts that that seem to have either worked for you or working among people that you support. Are there any other major mindset shifts on this journey from discovery, really discovering your brand, all the way up to having that fully embodied, authentic impact that we're talking about here? Like what are those breakthrough moments that we can be looking forward to or figuring out how to nurture ourselves through because we know it's not going to be all pretty phased out of what we're saying? I think a big part of it and this is where a lot of people fall short is lack of commitment. You have to be committed to what you're doing. If you say that you're passionate about something, and then you walk away from whatever you're doing in that space a month later. You're not passionate about it. You think you see an avenue to quick read Chis without having to do the work that gets you there. If you can find yourself in a field, where you're passionate about your message, you can wake up every day excited about the work that's in front of you. That's passion. That is commitment. Now getting to the front, you're getting to be from a, in order to do it effectively, you don't want to rush it, obviously, because we talked about what you can learn on the journey, you miss a lot if you're just trying to reach the destination. But you have to be committed to whatever your project is. I'll bring podcasting in as an example. Because we see this so much in the podcast space. People hear podcasting, oh, this is sexy, I want to start a podcast, then they get into it and realize how much work is involved. On that front end, they never made a commitment to say, I'm gonna put a year's worth of my time into building this podcast, I'm going to get better at my craft, I'm going to connect with some great people. And along the way, not only do I get to have those powerful connections and have great conversations, I'm now creating content that I can share with my audience. And they're going to get further in direct and further invested in me and my brand. They just look at it and say, Okay, I'm going to start this podcast, and we're going to talk for a little bit, we're going to put it out into the world. And it's going to be great, you know, I know that mentality exists. Because I did that in the very beginning myself. I didn't put we didn't put any planning into things just started the show. And for whatever reason, I was ignorant to the fact that you gotta be really good at this to make people want to listen. Of course, we got some people to tune in. But overall, it wasn't what it could be. Because I was very green. And I needed to learn and I needed to get better. And then I finally realized that down the road, and I took time to educate myself and get better. So I learned from my mistake. But too often we attack anything that's in front of us with little to no commitment about seeing it through. And that's where we end up falling short, because we end up saying, well, this isn't working, I'm gonna shift course, I'm gonna go this way, I'm gonna try this new, shiny object. And we're not thinking about the fundamentals that are going to get us to that end line and inline might even be the wrong thing to say, because I look at it as a constant evolution, you can reach certain points and certain benchmarks, but then you need to push yourself to get to the next level. And then to the next level. That's how you remove complacency from your life. And if you're, if you're committed to a project, if you're committed to a brand, if you're committed to a business, if you're committed to a strategy, whether it be podcasting, video, social media, you name it, you have to think about the long term and you have to think about the journey that's taking place and what you're going to learn along the way. Something I say on my podcast often is a big sports fan, not to bring another sports metaphor into things. But here we are, you can watch sports center and see the touchdown celebration, or you can even watch the game. And when the player scores, they get to celebrate. Oftentimes, that's what we fixate on. But what about the 99 yards? What about the drive? What about all the mistakes? What about the near interceptions? What about how things almost completely changed along the way? How did the players persevere as they work their way down the field to get to that point, those are the learning moments. And when we embrace those, that's what's going to allow us to excel in everything that we're doing, and ultimately take our brands and our own personal stories to new heights. That's where it's at. That's where the magic takes place. It's so interesting to, to look at it through this lens because I see the sickness of our societal culture when it comes to instant gratification, external validation. Wanting it now, but not knowing how, like a cute little rhyme just came through there. But yeah, it's like we just we want the shiny thing we want the the touchdown, as you're saying. And I think one thing worth noting is that, yes, it takes hard work. And yes, it takes the devotion of showing up and really mastering the craft like to really master something is a lifelong journey or it can be and it's it's beautiful. There's beauty in figuring out how to master something, I think at the same time. And this shows up for me a lot as someone who can fall into the category of perfectionist or, you know, I just I want to do it right. I want to do it the right way. And I'll sometimes sit down and I'll be so overly diligent. I will be hyper vigilant about the details of something that it's actually to a detriment. And I've learned recently that this is actually a trauma response, which has been great information for me on my journey. So I've learned how to or I'm really I'm learning into how to bring play into the learning how to how to use that as kind of Like the equal but opposite energy of Let Me Be devoted and do the super hard work. But let me have some frickin fun with this. And it's like having conversations like this and building relationships and, and I often you kind of said this in the beginning too. But it's really interesting to think about how the audience is in conversation with us right now as well, even though they're not here live with us, they're going to hear this at a later date. But what this conversation kicks up in other people, and what they then go share with others are the new thoughts that they're having the aspects of their evolution that are now catalyzed by conversations like this, this is so fun. To me, this is the fun part of having a craft and being in devotion. And I mean, I can only imagine how much fun you've been having working with podcast guests, and in particular, because it's quite, it's quite a journey behind the scenes, but then you do get to show up and you get to be in that touchdown. Celebration moment. And, and that's beautiful. That's also a beautiful part of the mastery 100% It's, it's not putting the cart in front of the horse. It's about appreciating everything that you need to do to get to that level. But not trying to get there so fast that you miss things. I preach to everybody that I've ever worked with, or ever spoken to in any capacity. Podcast, guesting is an absolute blast. If you can think of a more fun way to grow your brand, please tell me because I want to try it. Because I've been having a damn good time getting to make connections just like this. I get to join like minded professionals who have a mission with their podcast who are looking to grow something special. And I can contribute to help them do that. And in doing that, I get to establish my thought leadership as someone that knows what they're talking about, and someone that can bring more value to a person. And as the listeners hear this, when it's live, they can discover whether I'm a person they want to know more about want to learn more from or if they want to go a different direction. And either choice is completely fine. But I get to put my message into the world. And in a more simplistic level, I just get to have a great conversation today. In this moment, as you and I are putting this episode together, you and I are just having a great time, we can let everybody know that we also recorded an episode of my podcast before we did. So even then it's a great screen time together today. Yeah. Today, right. And we've learned a lot from each other. And we've got to explore a lot of different speaking points. And again, like you said it perfectly. It's so fun. It's such a blast to make these connections because that's what I look at podcasting as you can treat it transactionally. And you can show up thinking that you have to sell or you have to close somebody, or you have to make this grandiose performance, not the case, podcasting is all about establishing strong relationships. And it starts with the person in front of you. As a podcaster. I know that a podcast, the podcaster is trying to accomplish building content that's going to resonate with their audience. So it can take their brand to new heights. In understanding that, it allows me to bring value to the mic, so I can help them do that. I'm thinking long term, I want them to reciprocate. I want them to come and join me on my show and help me do the exact same thing. But then once the message is heard by the world, like I said before, if someone resonates with what I have to say and would like to connect with me, I'm happy to connect with anybody and have a conversation, I think it's been revealed I like to talk. So I'm happy to open up my door to anybody who wants to know more about how to embrace this strategy in this philosophy, to grow their brand and take things to new heights. And if someone doesn't feel that way, that's okay, too. They're allowed to move on and find the person that impacts them in that positive way. So you're right, having fun with what you do. It makes a huge difference. And I think it speaks a lot to what we spoke about earlier about commitment and passion. If you have fun with what you're doing, and you can wake up in the morning and look at your schedule, and instead of saying I have to do two sales calls today, I have to do two podcast interviews, and change that one word of have to get and say I get to do two sales calls today. I get to do two podcasts today. It makes all the difference in the world and it's gonna get talking mindset shift. It puts you in a much more positive frame of mind. And when you do that, oh boy, you can become unstoppable with what you're doing. Agreed. The other secret ingredient next to play has been curiosity, as well. And I think this comes up in the podcasting landscape. And you mentioned thought leaders, too and so I want to dig into this a little but more because there's a lot of work that goes into refining your message and getting it to be coherent, and being a transmitter of your purpose through how you communicate how you show up authentically, all all the things that we're talking about here. And I think, in addition to the play the curiosity of talking about things that really interests me, right, and then going away and doing a little more research, or I guess, these days, it's throwing it in an in an AI search to see what it kicks back like that can lead on to another topic I know. Ah, but it's that Curiosity has really kept me going over the years to have, instead of looking at this with judgment, instead of instead of looking at this with, oh, shoot, I could have done better. It's like, okay, that was really interesting. Like, how, how do people do X, really efficiently and really effectively, like, I bet I can learn that, let me let me stay in that state of open curiosity, and have a healthy relationship with learning so that, that I can continue to evolve, I love this word evolution and in all that you do in your brand, and because I think it, it's so alive, and it's it's an ever unfolding journey to be evolving into who we're becoming. And I think for, for a lot of us who feel that passion and want to learn how to use our voices to communicate our purpose and become a thought leader. I mean, that's another category, whether whether you're a podcaster, whether you're an executive of a fortune 500 company, once you're at that level of being a thought leader, because you've done the due diligence, to master your craft, and now you're out playing on the edges of okay, I've got this great base of knowledge, so many reps of practice. Now I get to have fun out on the edge. What about this thing, let me try this thing. And the way that that inspires people, when you're when you're in that thought leadership seat, it's it's one of those things, I think, similar to podcasting, that it seems so sexy to be a quote, unquote, thought leader, like everyone wants to do it, every so many people want to start a podcast right now, because it's sexy. But if you can be committed and put in the work, now you have a platform, now we're holding conversations that are built on relationships, of reciprocity, and trust, and now together, like we can really do something with that we can really have an impact. And so I want to, I want to dive into this idea of having a platform because you're basically helping thought leaders, find their authenticity, develop a platform, learn how to hold space for impactful conversations that are going to shape not only how people think, and what they choose, but it's really going to shape who they become. And sometimes I think of this as a great responsibility. But I'm just I'm curious how you relate to that. And how are people in your world navigating said responsibility? Once they have built a platform like what what happens then? Well, it's all about the value that you can bring to the people that find you. And that's what gets you to that thought leader status, when people start to look at the value that you're bringing in. This is not even talking about the value that you would charge for thought leaders are putting their message into the world knowing that they're not going to be splitting atoms and reinventing wheels. But they know that their message is going to provide impact. And they understand intuitively, that once a person trust in your message and gets more invested in the information you're giving, that's when they'll take the right the next step and make a purchase. They'll they'll invest in you, maybe you have a course maybe you have a book, maybe you offer coaching, whatever your platform is, you have to get people there, but you can't just grab them by the scruff of the neck and drag them there. Because everybody purchases at different times. Now, when I think about this, I always think about when my dad bought his big screen TV, he looked for the right TV for maybe four years. And I think it was finally at a point right mom just said buy the damn thing. Because he was just not pulling the trigger. And he finally did, he was super happy and I'm more impulsive when it comes to things like that. But it was this thing that if you know if Samsung or a company would have reached out to him in that moment, he probably would have just ignored it and kept moving because he is a more meticulous shopper. So many people have their own buying patterns. And they can continue to get more and more invested in your message, the more value you put in front of them. That's going to establish that thought leadership and the more invested they are, the more likely what happens is when they do take the next step and they were to join your course join your coaching program join your mastermind. They might bring a friend, they might tell another You need to be here, like I've learned so much. And I want you to come with me. So now you're working smarter, not harder. So you have a responsibility as you establish this slot leadership to bring value to the world now where it goes next. That's different for everybody, I think it's hard to throw a wide net over the direction that it goes. But I don't think anybody can get to a point where they're experiencing thought leadership and putting a good message into the world without finding the platform that works best for them, and then consistently putting value on that platform. For me, it's podcasting. For someone else, it could be video, it could be Instagram, it doesn't matter what it is, where you feel the most comfortable, where you can create the most powerful content that impacts the right people. That's where you're going to shine. And that will establish your thought leadership. Once you're there, you can write your ticket, but you also have to not get complacent with the value that you're bringing to the world, you have to keep that message flowing in a positive way. And that's going to just bring more and more people into your orbit. And we are attracted to value, there's no question about that. And it's very easy to tell the person that is a little shady or a little shifty, their message just doesn't sound right. Like when you look at him, that's really gonna something's not right here versus the person that has people lined up down the block, waiting to say thank you, because I had this problem. And you helped me solve it. If you've got that same problem, okay, I'm going to trust the fact that this person has a lot of people thanking them. They've built a community that they can speak to. That's how this thing grows. And that's how this thought leadership becomes realistic. And then you can grow everything that you do around that, but you have to earn it. And I think that might be what a lot of people miss, especially if they're in the shortcut mindset. If you don't earn it, it's very hard for anybody to truly respect where you are. And sometimes that can negate the results that you experience. Well said, I see the parallels with big companies and executives as well, because people want to work for a trustworthy organization. So very similar, you have to have a culture of trust, where you can show up in psychological safety, to be yourself to get your livelihood met all of these things. And I think people in recent years have really developed and deepened their intuition when it comes to noticing the shakiness, like you said, or the shiftiness and seeing right through that mask. And seeing the inauthenticity of that there, it's like a big veil got ripped off of our eyes, in the pandemic, especially where I think a lot of intuitive, like no bullshit meter, kind of evolved during that time. And now, we're making choices based on trust, we're making choices based on the intuition that we feel in our bodies to go on this person's podcast and not this person's and to buy a product or an offering from this President, not from this person, or go work for this company and say no to that one, because they're not embodying the values, like there's a mismatch between what they're saying and what they're doing. And something in me consents that, and that feels off that doesn't feel an integrity within myself. So I love this, this movement, really into more evolved intuition. heightened levels of of authenticity. And I think it's really going to change the game, the more people get into learning how to do this, and realizing that the results are magnetized by being in in the thought leadership and being in the authenticity. And so it's almost like a big divestment happening right now out of the bullshit out of the toxic work culture and a reinvestment into the people who are who are doing the work like You're like you're saying, and so I appreciate that you're showing up in this world supporting people to do that it's part of this much larger shift into more conscious leadership which I know we got into on your show a bit, where we get to have that self awareness and build that integrity within ourselves and support others to do the same and then we're so much better off quite frankly, we have so much more abundance to work with, we don't have to protect ourselves quite as much because we don't have predatory capitalist predatory capitalism, knocking at our doors being like, give me all of your money and all of your lifeforce like we're just gonna suck you dry. Like no thank you that we tried that model. It didn't work, dying. And so what what is the new model? I really think it's, it's rooted in exactly what you're talking about. And I'm Want to come back to storytelling as as a powerful medicine? And perhaps this is kind of where we can bring this amazing conversation to a close? Because you're such a good storyteller. So I want to ask if someone was so welcome. It's Yeah, been a joy to be in this conversation. I'm just imagining all the other stories that people you've worked with are now out there telling, and how that impacts people. It's, you've got a whole mycelial web happening now. But if someone is wanting to get started with unpacking their authentic story, and beginning to tell that to other people, what advice would you have for someone who's who's just getting started with wanting to be in that more authentic story of their lives? It starts with peeling the onion, to use a popular phrase, you have to go layers beneath the surface to really get to that authenticity. And a lot of times that authentic story can be born from pain. And more than likely, it doesn't have to be massive pain, it could just be a small nagging thing, but you have to embrace even the shitty parts that you may have experienced in your life. Because those were learning experiences, even if you don't look at it. On the surface, or at the time in the moment, as learning, you can look back on something that may have happened in your past and say, Wow, man, I've really come a long way since that happened. But the important thing to realize is, even though that happened, and again, this is subjective, this is different for every single person. That's what makes it unique. And that's what makes it special. But looking at those factors, and not trying to shove them under the bed or underneath the carpet, and actually bringing them to the surface. It lets others resonate with you and realize that not only are you a human being as well, but you're experiencing something that they're also experiencing, you're not the only one that's had troubles, you're not the only one that's had problems, you can flip this on its head and use the successful side of things to you're not the only one that's experienced that either. But once you fully embrace all of these things that have happened to you, and you can bring them together in a way that when you talk to somebody, you're relaying it in a very positive way of here's what happened to me. It wasn't the best, but I've learned so much. And now I'm here. Many people are going to fall in love with that, because that's the hero's journey. That's what we watch movies for maybe so I mean, I like the heels. I like the antagonists more than the protagonist, that's just me, but in the appreciation of what the hero can accomplish. That's what we all want. We all want that moment of glory are stories that are built inside of us. They have that component built baked right in. We just have to be willing to get past putting flaws of ourselves into the world that might make it's going to make people realize that we're not perfect, but guess what, they probably never thought that anyway, we probably had just preconceived in our mind that we have to put this shiny, polished product in front of people. That's the only way they're going to respond to me. But you said it before. There's some beauty in the messiness. I feel that you have to learn from those experiences and grow beyond them. And not try to get people into your world and teach them something if you don't fully understand it yourself. But bringing the story to life is all about tapping into the things that have happened to you over time, like a big part of the story I tell about my evolution as an entrepreneur, started when I was 13 years old. I was big in the card collecting. And I got an opportunity from one of the card shops that was down the street from my house. He needed a partner of his needed some help at one of the card shows. And they said hey, would you like to set up a table, you got to pay a small price to have it but you can sell your cards and you can be a part of this. And I was always at those cards shows. And I was like, Well, yeah, I understand how this works. And even at the age of 13 I had no idea how to run a business, but I could put a couple little things together. And it sparked something in me that said, for the long term, you need to do this. You need to be doing your thing you need to be finding the best way to move forward with your own possibilities. I love telling that story because it wasn't the most successful venture in the world. Of course not I probably blew all my profits at that same card show. I can't remember everything verbatim but I know how my habits were at the time. But it sparked an entrepreneurial bug or the entrepreneurial bug bit me I should say. And it sparked my interest in doing my own thing as I got older and moved on through life. That's a big part of my past. I love bringing that story out. But I'll also tell the story of my last corporate job. I thought things were going tremendously. I had just interviewed for a corporate management job, I had just a regional management job, I should say, I was given more responsibility. Even though I didn't get that job, I was told that it gave everybody something to think about. They wanted to put more on my plate to bring me up, and I felt things were going great. And then a month later, I got fired, out of nowhere, completely, unexpectedly shocked the hell out of me. Even thinking back to that day, I still think, wow, what the hell happened. But that was many years ago, and I've moved on and gotten past it. But I'm not afraid to tell that story. Because it happened. It's real. We all go through shit. But we all have to look at what happens within that shit. Take all the positives, and build something better for the future. So I look at that job losses and say, yeah, that sucked. But I learned a lot when I worked for that company, I can now apply a lot of those skills to how I help people today. That's how I took a negative and made it a positive. And that's part of my story. It embodies everything about who I am and how far I've come. And I'm proud to tell it to anybody, without an ounce of fear. When you can get to that point with your story. That means you're comfortable, you're confident, you can tell it with conviction, and you're going to bring something special to the world. So that's how you get started. And then you run with it from there. Oh, powerful words. Powerful words. Wow. Thank you so much, Jason. It's been so nice to have you on the show. And I yeah, for anyone who has resonated with you today and wants to either keep listening to you or learn how to work with you. Where can they find you on this thing we call the Internet. Best place to go is Jason circling.com. Because you can choose your adventure. From there. You can learn more about my podcast guesting simplified program, check out my evolution of brand podcast. I don't want to speak to the new podcast, and I'm bringing out because I don't know when our conversation is gonna be live. So I don't want to put any false hope in the world. But everything is connected through Jason serko.com. And if you want to have a further conversation, I offer free Discovery sessions where we can share some ideas I can get to know more about what you want to accomplish. And we can determine if our values align so we could potentially work together. Excellent. Ah, all right, listeners. Thanks for tuning in. Thanks for being present today. We'll see you next week. And Jason, thank you again for sharing your wisdom today. I appreciate the opportunity to call this was a blast. Thank you so much for having me.