Healing Abusive Relationships, Culture & Self Talk | Amanda Kate | Ep. 23

If you've been on a journey of personal transformation, you know that transformation is not a painless process... 

Doing the deep inner work can bring us to our knees. Breaking away from beliefs that no longer serve us can feel like we ourselves are breaking. But as special guest Amanda Kate says in today's episode, she'd rather go through the transformation than give up the (often challenging) path of healing. There is so much to be gained when we do this work - authenticity, sovereignty, choice.

As we unlearn and deprogram, we begin to see new choices before us and take our sovereignty back. Those moments when we see the pattern and choose something different, often define who we become. 

In this episode, we explore:

• Unlearning the patterns and beliefs that keep us stuck in cycles
• Healing after an abusive relationship
• Recognizing the voice of our inner abuser
• Anger as a signal that a boundary has been crossed
• Reparenting our scared inner children
• The importance of REST on the healing journey
• Raising our self-awareness to end cycles of harm
• Having grace with our divine, messy humanness 

In this episode, I'm joined by author and transformational coach, Amanda Kate. Amanda Kate is the author of Divine. Messy. Human: A Spiritual Guide to Prioritising Internal Truth over External Influence. And she has an extraordinary way of synthesizing the key phases and revelations along her journey. 

Learn more about Amanda Kate: https://www.amandakate.com.au/

#podcast #abuse #personaldevelopment #selftalk #reparenting #innerchild 

Transcript

Nicole Bellisle: 1:01

Welcome back leaders, we have a great conversation for you today with Amanda Kate, who is a trained kinesiology artist, and best selling author of her book called divine messy human, a spiritual guide to prioritizing internal truth over external influence. And if that's not the best book title I've heard in a long time, I don't know what is inside today's episode, we really get into what the inner transformation journey looks like. What do we actually experience when we start to alchemize our beliefs? How do we identify those beliefs and those limitations in the first place, so that we can begin to deprogram them and reprogram ourselves with something else? How do we alchemize our trauma from early childhood from abusive relationships that maybe we found ourselves in whether that's romantic partnerships, or toxic bosses in the work context, we get into all of that, and more what strikes me about Amanda Kate is her ability to synthesize a complex journey of our own becoming into a language that we can really understand into a transmission of those key learnings and messages along the way, so that maybe we can accelerate our own path, maybe we can have a little less pain, a little less suffering, a little more self love and grace, knowing that this incredible human went through this journey, too, and is now here sharing this wisdom with us today, Amanda, Kate is also a podcast host, a speaker and a life coach. And she really works with people to break through the barriers or the ceilings that exist within self so that through lifestyle changes and different choices, they can begin to step into their fully expressed self. She does this mostly with business owners and entrepreneurs so that they can express their whole heart and soul into business. Walking, this inner path is a form of leadership. And it's certainly not easy, as you'll hear in Amanda Kate's story, but she offers us really beautiful practices and insights along the way for having grace with ourselves, when things get tough when the inner critic shows up when we want to all but give up so that we can keep going because on the other side of this is something so beautiful, so whole, and so loving, that it's worth the pain that we might encounter on this path to coming home to ourselves. Not only does this inner work of alchemy, support us to be better for ourselves, but it also helps us to show up better in our relationships, and our companies, and the impact that we have on the world. So without further ado, it is my absolute honor to welcome Amanda Kate to the show. Amanda Kate, welcome to the living leaders Podcast. I'm thrilled to have you with us today.

Unknown: 4:01

Thank you so much. I'm just so grateful to be here. I can't wait to have a chat with you,

Nicole Bellisle: 4:05

Sam, Sam, I've, I've been perusing all of your many channels and listening to your episodes on YouTube in particular. And honestly, before, before we hit record, when I was watching the one about the dark night of the soul, it actually brought me to tears as I was making some food in the kitchen and just preparing for this conversation. Because I think while we find ourselves in this great transition of moving business into a new paradigm and letting go of what's not working, I don't know that people realize the full extent of the inner journey that happens. And you've done so much in this space. So I would love to just start with your experience of going through this inner transformation. And just how are you sense making all of this in our crazy world right now?

Unknown: 4:56

I think I'm gonna start with saying I don't think there is any sense making of any of it. And I think that's part of the the trust of the journey and part of the stepping into the unknown, because let's face it, where we get stuck is where we know. And we kind of keep going back to it. People call it the comfort zone. But I know for me my comfort zone was anything but comfortable throughout my childhood throughout my adult life until I basically hit I think it was 3637 years old. And I stayed in this really uncomfortable place because it was what I knew. So I tend to call it that known zone and we call it the comfort zone because that's what it's been called. But it's not and it's certainly not where growth happens. And I feel like I was phenomenally kicked out of my comfort zone out of my known zone. And that's really I guess what opened the door for me to find all of this inner work. I always say to people, I can't take you where I've not been I'm so I guess lucky for my clients, I've pretty much been to the depths. And I'm not afraid to go there, I've got a weekend and about three weeks time where I'm going to work out why I do all the problems the way that I do them. So, you know, I do the big work. And I think the reason I do that big work one is because I'm ever curious to is because I know it has completely and utterly transformed my life. And three, it's allowed me to bring the work that I absolutely love and adore into the world. And so it's recognizing that bigger picture as you go along the path. And this wasn't something that I found and chose to do, it found and chose me is the way that it feels. So it really does feel like that projection along the path. I think without going to those depths and realizing that we need to rebirth ourselves, we need to re transform our experiences and our stories and what they mean. So that we can use them in a different way going forward to literally change the world.

Nicole Bellisle: 7:12

Yeah, quite literally. And that connection between inner and outer that you're that you're playing with there, I just find that so interesting, this inner alchemy of really looking at all of the all of the intricate pieces and wounded parts in our children, fears, there's so much in there that we can't see. And the process of actually going in and deprogramming that or deconstructing decolonizing. I mean, there's so many buzzwords out there right now, to point towards this process of alkalinization. And so I want to dig into that a little bit more to ask like, what did that specifically look like? For you were that were there different phases that you went through in this? And what kind of kept you going, even when things got tough? Or started looking really hopeless even? Because I know that that's a common experience for people in this type of transformation?

Unknown: 8:13

Oh, 100%, you often I mean, I still will occasionally bring a girlfriend and go, but I get off the path now. And she's like, do you really want to? And I'm like, No, I don't know, this is what I've been called to do. I think the important thing is to rest when you are feeling that. To go back to basics, I am really big on doing the simple things that make the big shifts in your life. Because I look at the quantum leaps that I've made and people throw those terms around. But the biggest leaps that I have made have been through to small daily practices that keep me grounded and keep me present, that allow me then to look back and go, Holy crap, my life has completely and utterly changed. So I think in terms of that process, you know, when I first found kinesiology, I was in deep trauma. I was in a massively toxic marriage, I didn't even know I was in an abusive relationship. So because it was so normal to me that I had no clue. And that then, I guess, was the main reason for me going into kinesiology was I was constantly finding out how to human almost, it was like, Oh, my relationships not normal. Oh my God, those things that people say to me, aren't what normal loving relationships, you know, express to one another. And even some of the comments that you know, I'd had growing up people are going oh, that's that's actually not normal. And I'd be laughing about it and they'd be going Oh, bless you, honey. Like that's, that's we need to reprogram excuse this isn't this is why you're in the you know, the spotlight bother you are, so to speak. So I guess a lot of that work was really almost rebuilding me from the ground up of me looking at what had happened and understanding that it was trauma. And recognizing because trauma isn't just those big things that happen to us. It's not just the accidents or the big abuses or, you know, those things that we often think of as trauma, you know, war, or, you know, the stuff that comes with being of a different color or being of a different gender, we think of a lot of those things as traumatic, but trauma is anything that our body stores as less than nourishing and nurturing. So when I look at that I have been an abusive parent, and I have to say it, you know, when I was being abused, and when I was in my, you know, micromanaging, controlling explosive because I was trying to keep so much down. I know I've been an abusive parent and I've spoken to my children about us and I know I've done harm. You know, I'm open to go into any counseling Want me to go to I'm open to healing this with you when you're ready to do it. I can't undo it. But I can certainly make as many reparations as possible because I know I've done that to them. And I think that's come through the wisdom of, of, I guess living this and being able to see what causes trauma and and those patterns that come in through life. So I guess that first phase was really, really diving deep into what got me into an abusive relationship, why I couldn't see it, how I allowed myself to be in it for so long. And then it sort of moved into a lot more of the Okay, so this is where I'm going, What's stopping me from getting there. And we worked a lot on that kind of thing, which was still doing a lot of the trauma work. But it was also starting to set me up for, I guess, building my life again. And, you know, I got to this point at the end of last year, and I've done a lot of different modalities, a lot of different work with a lot of different healers. And I got to the end of last year, and I was like, oh my god, like, I feel like I'm healed from that. I know that sounds a bit crazy, but because I don't know that we're ever done with the process. But I feel like that major part has healed and somebody wants said to me at the beginning, it can take half as long as it took you to get to where you got to to get better. And I was in my marriage for 14 years. And it was seven years post divorce that I got almost exactly to the day like within about five or six days, I kid you not. And I went, oh my god, like this is what people were talking about. Like now there's other things I'm working on. There's other things that I want to change to expand and grow into. But I feel like that trauma aspect, I don't have to keep going over it. I've got the awarenesses I've got the understandings, yes, there is still cellular memory in my body because it was, you know, 37 years plus of me in that stage. And in that way of reacting and, you know, exploding things in in unresolvable behaviors, and learning new ways of being, you know, it's been this real, unpacking, relearning something and putting it together. And then going back again, unlearning, working out what it is that I need to learn and then living the wisdom of it. And really making sure that I embody it. And I think you're right, you do get tired on the journey. So there's been times that I've just had a couple of months off. Now, I can't do any more than a couple of months off. For me personally, because of the work that I do. I need to be evolving and changing and doing the work and checking in with coaches and healers, to make sure that I'm on path that I'm on track that I'm seeing, you know what I can't see, because let's face it, it's my story. I can't wait to see it, because I'm in it. And so gaining that perspective is vital for me to be able to do the work that I do in the world. But I always say to people, if you're in that space, take a rest, take a break, go back to your basics, do your breathing, war, get out in nature, go for your walks, move your body. And then when you're ready for the next bit, go in again. And I tend to sort of talk about it in terms of that internal scaffolding and the external scaffolding. So the internal scaffolding is the stuff that we can do ourselves, the external scaffolding of the other providers that we use to help us gain different perspectives and different wisdom and different points of view on what we're going through.

Nicole Bellisle: 14:47

I love that so much. There's there's so much in what you're saying here. And that last piece about sort of, triangulating different vantage points or like using these external perspectives to increase your own self visibility, I think is so key because you're right, we can't see what we can't see. And in order to actually do the healing. The first step is often awareness. And I one thing that I see a lot in leaders, and I think there's so many parallels between what we're doing in business and what we're doing in in families as well. Like there's, there's so many parallels there. And when it comes to showing up in traditional business culture, and really putting on the mask of what we think we should be doing, that we're doing everything right, were operating from these values, or these sets of patterns that we've sort of inherited from the system that that we were conditioned into. And so similar to what you're saying about how you can't always see yourself. We also can't always see the context or the culture that that we're in and till we stop and rest and question these things and start to see, okay, well, maybe I don't want to keep that pattern maybe that isn't serving maybe that is harmful to my family or my team or my future self even. So yeah, there's just there's so much in what you're saying. And I'm curious, once you started to gain more of that visibility, and take those those moments of pause and rest when you need it. What were some of the early signs of change that that were occurring? Like? How was your how's your life different? Now that you've gone through some of this transformation work? Well, I think

Unknown: 16:45

to go back and answer that first, but I think we're all in the water. And we don't realize we're wet. Because we're all swimming in this society. And so, you know, I remember growing up, and I'd hear racist comments, or homophobic comments, or all of that. Now, for me to pretend that doesn't exist in me, is denial and delusion. I am now aware of it. So I don't ever want to cause harm. And I also know that because of my conditioning, I may not recognize that I'm causing harm, unless I check in with people of color, or different races, or of, you know, different genders, because I am white, and female, and identify as a woman and all of that kind of stuff. So we can't always recognize if we've been swimming in that water, what is considered harmful and what isn't. I think the other really important point is to not beat ourselves up for it, yes, we want to change, we want to be Changemakers, we want the world to be different. And we're not always going to get it right, we are going to make mistakes, we are going to trip up. And I think having that empathy and self compassion is what we need to cultivate. So that we can be more comfortable in putting our hands up and saying, You know what, you're right. I didn't know any better. And now I do. So now I can make reparation. Now I can make sure that in the future, I am aware of this, I'm aware that I'm wet when I'm doing this, and I'm swimming in that water. And so I can hop out of the pool or whatever it is. And so I think that's a really important part, I think the first things that I noticed was that my anger lessened. I felt constantly angry for so many years, because I wasn't being seen, I wasn't being heard. I wasn't being respected. I wasn't being honored. Like I used to say to my ex husband, you treat me like a piece of shit on the bottom of your shoe that you're just trying to scrape off. And that's how I felt. But of course being in that state permanently, day in day out. It does make you angry, because it's violating all of your boundaries, when you put a boundary in it is completely disregarded and dismissed. And anger is there to show us when our boundaries have been violated. It's also there to show us there's big emotions that are sitting under the surface when we're hurt. When we're feeling unseen and unloved. It's showing us when we're afraid. And I had all of that bubbling under the surface and I could not look at it. So anger made me feel like I was doing something. Because if I got angry, he would pay attention to me and I felt real. And that was the only time I felt real. Because I had no interaction from him otherwise. So I would create drama to get the outburst to just feel like I existed just for that moment. And then I'd be okay. Not existing again, because I'd feel at least like I existed for a little while. And I didn't really want to exist in that way. And so then there'd be that conflict. But I recognize that the anger dissipated. And I was like, Okay, this is interesting. And then I was able to hear more clearly my own inner abuser, that allowed all of this stuff to happen, because whilst my abuser was bigger than the abuse I was getting from everybody else. I didn't recognize their abuse as abuse. Because I was still the worst person to myself the stuff I used to say to myself, I wouldn't ever dare say to another human being. Now as that dropped, and as I started to respect myself more, all of a sudden I could see the abuse from other people because it was no longer it was just on a different level. And I was like Ah, okay. But then of course I got more courage and I'd start calling it out which increased the toxicity in my marriage. edge, because I was starting to call it out. And I was starting to go hang on a minute, I don't know that this is right, I don't think that should be treated like this. And so again, it was it was gaining more confidence in understanding that hang on, maybe I do actually deserve some respect. Or maybe I do actually deserve some kindness. Or maybe I do actually deserve somebody who may be able to see that I'm not such a horrible human being. And so that confidence gradually started to grow. And then the way I was treating people was changing, because of course, I wasn't just this bowl of suppressed anger, and hurt and abuse. And I look back at a lot of my own resourceful behaviors back then. And when you understand the way that domestic violence victims actually show out in the world, I was like, Oh, okay. It took going to a police station, and somebody actually saying to me, you're in a domestic violence situation, for me to actually even put it that far. I was like, okay, yeah, I'm in an abusive marriage, like, I kind of got to that point. But she said, this is domestic violence. And I remember the next day, I got a call from the Salvation Army domestic violence unit. And I remember saying to her, I'm not being hit, there are people out there much worse off than me. And she's like, Oh, my God. And the number of times through my, through my healing, I said, at least I wasn't here. And they're going you were hit every day, just not physically, it was with words, it was with actions, it was verbally. And so it was also coming out of that and healing all of those wounds that were very, very deep in my psyche. And I still pick up the voice in my head, that Who were you to do that? I know exactly who that came from. I know exactly. Who's saying that over my shoulder. I now have the volume control for it. So it's not that I've gotten rid of that voice. But I recognize that voice. Who are you to do that? Okay, I hear you, I understand that part of me is trying to keep me safe. And I'm going to do this anyway. So I think that a lot of these really big belief system that we have. And I can tell you, because I've spent 10s of 1000s of dollars, not just on education, but on my own healing sessions, I'm probably over six figures these days. Like, I know, you cannot get rid of all of these belief systems that are so deeply ingrained in you. We can't, I don't know if I will ever feel 100% worthy, or good enough. I just don't, I don't know if that's a possibility. Maybe it is because I do believe that we can heal from anything. But those belief systems have been so deeply ingrained since birth. And now 45 have just turned 45. It's so deeply ingrained in me. I hear the voice now, though. And I recognize it as one of those inner children, or inner teenagers, or in a woman who was told that over and over again, through words, actions and deeds. It wasn't just the words, sometimes it was the actions, the dismissals, the abandonment, the rejection. And I'm able to see that hurt in a person and give them the love that they need. And give them the resources that they need as now the grown up in the picture. And that's the difference the works given me is it hasn't gotten rid of some of those voices or some of those on results or behaviors. I'm still on resourceful. At times, it is a hell of a lot less than I was, you know, even a year ago, two years ago, five years ago. But of course, they come up because I'm human. And I think that's the other thing we need to do is we need to give ourselves grace for being human. We're not always going to get it right. We're not always going to be on our a game. And if we can accept and love that, then I think it makes our human experience so much easier.

Nicole Bellisle: 25:10

So true. Yeah, that that grace piece and the the inner parenting or re parenting practice that you're naming here to just help kind of draw the parallel to the business world a bit. You had framed one of your questions of like, wow, if like, I'm my biggest self abuser, right? If someone was talking to me, like I'm talking to me, Wow, that and in the business world, we see this too. Sometimes I'll ask people if, if you if your boss if you had a boss that was speaking to you, as you're speaking to you, as your inner micromanager or that internalized capitalist who's telling you to get back to work and that your worth comes from what you produce externally. It's most people are like, no like that would be a toxic relationship. Would that boss that would be a harmful cycle of communication. And I would want to remove myself from that as best I could. But I think to your point, it's, I mean, we're picking up this, this inner talk, and all of these aspects of our inner culture, from our childhood into our teenage years. And I love that you highlighted that. It's not just verbal, right? It's like our self talk, we kind of get that from what we hear our parents say, or what we hear society say, but the nonverbal communication, of dismissal and abandonment, or undervaluing, and over prioritizing work way over our own health, it's, we take all of that on. So the Yeah, the dissecting that you've been able to do is so there's a complex system in there, there's a living system in there that you've, you've kind of got in and reprogrammed a bit, but done that in such a healing way by rewriting how you relate to yourself how you relate to others, because it was it was so cool to hear that piece in your story that you actually started showing up differently in your relationships, there was less anger, and then it's, you know, kind of ripples out from there. But I want to circle back to this, this grace piece that you mentioned, and drop into what that looks like on a practical level, because I know that you talk a lot about being a messy human, and that this is part of the journey. And I'm curious, when that self critic shows up for you, how are you still able to give yourself grace? What is what does that look like in practice, or in principle?

Unknown: 27:49

Yeah, to go back to again, that that first piece that you're talking about, you know, when when you're talking about, you know how we put this in business, we can't separate this out. And so I really just want to, I guess, put a little pin in that for people. You can't just work on your business self or just work on your relationship self or just work on yourself in this area of your life. It is all inextricably linked, if you want to change, it's doing that inner work, which will change every area of your life because we can't just silo out, you know, the physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, they're all intermingled. What I recognize is, the more work I did, instead of having one knee for work, and one me for my ex husband, and one me for my children and one me for these people, and which was exhausting and tiring as hell, and I think a lot of people do it. You know, I'm picking up those pieces of myself, that I've discarded along the way, or cut off and repressed and hidden away because I'm ashamed of them. I've brought them back into the fold with love. So instead of being all these different people, I'm now that one. Now, if you saw me in clinic in a session, I'd be very much the way I am. Now, if you saw me with, you know, my partner or children, I'd be very much the way I am now. It's just that obviously, people get slightly different facets, depending on what kind of capacity they're with me in. But I'm still with that one entity. The way I've been able to cultivate that grace for myself is really through that deep understanding of human behavior. I started that journey through kinesiology, it was, you know, a door that opened and led me through into this whole new world that I didn't even know existed of that Mind, Body Spirit connection of the quantum physics of, you know, all of that quantum healing aspect, as well as understanding the more physical aspect of why we're wired this way, the physiology the psychology of, you know, why we behave the way we do in the world. And then I've also done the archetypal life coaching, which goes to the ancient archetypes, it's not the union archetypes. It's the ones that were passed on, from the ancients, through paintings through story through mysticism, and the lady I learned that from did 20 plus year priestess apprenticeship. So she's put it together in a in an incredible way. And learning that archetypal stuff has again, given a depth and a different layer to the work that I do, and the work that I've done on myself because when you're learning this, you're going through the process yourself. You're going through those healings yourself as well as then facilitating it for other people. So I don't obviously do anything I've not experienced myself. And in that healing What I've recognized is every single part of me, that is unresolvable the axon resourcefully, that gets into reactivity, those parts are all just trying to keep me safe. They're all just working on old conditioning that they thought would keep me safe and keep me alive till the next day. And so far, they've done a really good job of that. But I don't want to be going back to my two year old, and asking for tools that I need to get through life now as my 45 year old self, but she doesn't always realize that I've grown up, because she's still stuck as her two year old self. Now, that doesn't mean that she's trying to sabotage me, or that she's trying to trip me up or get me into trouble or you know, any of that sort of stuff, there's no blame in that she's doing the best she can. She just doesn't have access to all the tools that I've got access to. And so it's, it's parenting that child, darling, it's okay, I've got this, I'm the adult You can trust me, you're safe with me, I'm gonna keep you safe. And, and having that standard for myself now, that I will not allow anything in my life that does not keep me safe, all of a sudden means that safety really is a non issue. And I can honestly tell my inner children in a teens that I've got this because I will keep them safe. Now, if I told them that I could keep them safe. And then I went out and did something, you know, like, I've never dated another person who was similar to my ex, then they wouldn't trust me. And guess what would happen? They'd arc up like a toddler who doesn't feel safe. If I didn't respect them if I didn't respect myself, and this is why that work all starts with the inner self. Because the more we keep ourselves to the values and standards that we need and desire in our life. The left sees inner children need to arc out because they trust that we've got it. So they're not warring parts within us. It's this congruent hole. And I think that's where the grace comes from, is understanding that we're always doing the best we can. And I know that for certain, even when I have been the worst version of myself as a mother, I was still doing the best I could. I was still trying to protect myself and my children from the environment we were living in. Now, did I have the tools? No, I didn't. My two year old was running the show. And realistically, she shouldn't be when I'm in my late 30s. But I shouldn't be coming down hard on her for doing the best she could. And so that's where the grace comes in.

Nicole Bellisle: 34:03

So, so beautifully put, doing the best we can, yeah, and this, this piece about trust, and cultivating that inner that inner safety. And that inner sense of trust is so beautiful, because it in what you were saying it's like it connects you to your action, it connects you to your choices, and the life that the that you then build from that sequence of choices. So if you are honoring your commitments to yourself, living by your values, setting boundaries and keeping them you're you're keeping all of those inner children safe, as you're saying, and I just feel like what becomes possible from there is is much more limitless. Because if we're operating from that fear and that unsafety we can't actually see all that's possible either. So when we when we cultivate the safety and self, we can take bigger risks, we can be bolder, we can be more fully expressed, because like we've got our own back. And I think that cultivation, once we build that in, in ourselves, I see this in leaders who are outperforming peers, where if if they are operating from that level of integrity and self trust that you're talking about, like that is how they create cultures of safety and trust for their teams. And these are the organizations that are now attracting all of the talent because these are the companies and organizations that are safe to be at and safe to play. Within you have all of your inner children kind of cared for in in these work, cultures of care that are starting to pop up and haven't existed. For all that long. It's like this is fairly new that we're seeing this kind of scale and I'm so grateful that we are

Unknown: 35:59

it's it's revolutionary and I think, you know, people do talk about that safety at work. And I think it's also understanding that we only need to be showing the bits that we want to show at work as well. You know, we don't always want to bring our whole self to work. Because it is, after all work, like for me with my job, of course, I bring my whole self I have, you know, there's no other option really for me. But I can imagine working for somebody else, there would be bits that I would keep just for me, and some people might see it other people may not, it doesn't mean that I wouldn't be hold still. And so I think it's also having grace and acceptance for other people choosing which bits are bringing into the workplace and which bits are going to be, you know, fully shined off and fully expressed, and also honoring those bits that they're going, you know what this actually isn't, it's having full choice, I guess, is the point. And that's the bit that I think is so vitally important in these workplaces, you know, what you are safe to bring whatever you want to bring into this workplace. And also, I honor your choice to show up however, you want to show up and be the kind of person that, you know, obviously, we expect in this kind of revolutionary change of workplace. And I only say that having listened to some podcasts that I mentioned earlier, from this lady who does work in this activism space, and, you know, they were talking about the fact that not everybody wants to bring their full self to work. And I kind of thought, You know what, that's fair enough, actually, that may not be their passion project. So there may bring that little self. However, if they can show up as their authentic in that authentic way, then that's just as valuable as bringing that whole self to work. So I guess I want to just state that because I think it's really important almost to give people permission, one to be their whole self, but to that they don't have to show it in every single environment in every single relationship. And it'd be exhausting to be your whole self all the time. You know, realistically, let's face. Because also, if we are our true whole self, then they're going to see the less results from parts of us, because that's who part of our whole self is. And so again, it's, I guess, giving a few little parameters to it, because I feel like people need permission. This is a new game that we're playing. And we're still writing the rules on it. And so I guess it's also having that permission to, you know, cross out what we put in as a rule and go, maybe that just needs to be a guideline, or maybe that's just, you know, maybe that one doesn't work or whatever it is, it's it's giving ourselves permission to play with the idea, so that we can open up that creativity and find the structures then that are able to work best to support that creativity.

Nicole Bellisle: 39:10

Yeah, it almost it almost sounds to me like that journey through creativity and kind of finding, finding those structures as we walk ourselves home, to our to our sovereignty in a way and that permission that you're speaking about. And that choice of, well, maybe I don't need to show up as my whole self in all situations, but it's still it's authentic for me to choose that and to set that boundary of which pieces I'm bringing, or how how big my expression is in this moment. And that level of, of sovereignty and self management, I think is so beautiful. And in and previously, we have been outsourcing leadership, externally. And we haven't I don't think we've fully seen the potential of when we reclaim that sovereignty and become our own self leaders in this space doing doing that inner healing work and making our own choices in this way. But it also requires us to go full circle in the conversation, to have the self visibility of what our gifts are, as well. And so I think this is another really interesting shift right now where robots AI could take over the things that are more cookie cutter or more machine like as far as functions, but those unique human gifts, I don't think that goes away. So going on the journey of cultivating that and getting people to have the opportunities to align with those opportunities and express themselves into them, I think will create a much different work landscape than we've seen. And so I'm curious now that you're so we've kind of got like the full arc of your journey here. We went into the dark night of the soul a little bit we get to hear Are some of the practices for inter re parenting and what's possible on the other side of that, and I'm curious when it comes to how you're showing up in your gifts now that you've cleared out some of that pattern that you've rewired, a lot of the ways that you're even relating to yourself, What are those gifts look like now? And how are those wanting to shine in the world so that we can see you in those?

Unknown: 41:28

I think it's, it's just a constant evolution, it's, I think there are always different levels of expansion and growth to go through. So as much as I've, I've done a lot of that work. And as I said, Before, I kind of feel healed from that past trauma, there will always be things that pop up, where I'll be like, Okay, I'll look at that now. Now I can look at this, because I've got the space now to go, Okay, where do I want to be? How do I want to be showing, when it comes to, you know, that workplace aspect and and those gifts, robots will never be human. As much as people are talking about it, and integration and blahdy blahdy, blah, they will never be able to hold a paintbrush and paint from the heart the way we do, they will not be able to write words on a page, the way a human being channels their soul through their heart and expresses it on a page. So there will always be limitations, they will not be able to speak with tears rolling down their face the way that humans can. Because we are feeling machines, they are not. And we can try and program that idea of feeling into them. But as you as I know, from my past, when I wasn't truly feeling I was in that robot kind of state, and there are enough people out there still in that state. However, as we wake up, and we allow ourselves to express all those feelings, it is a very, very different landscape. And so I think especially for me, you know, as I'm moving forward, it is tapping more into that creativity is allowing that creative expression out into the world more, whether that be through, you know, I started a new podcast a few months ago that I'm just playing with, again, you know, we'll see where it goes, I'll see what happens. There's no expectation on it. Again, I've got my notes, my second book in my drawer, and who knows when that will come out. But I just keep adding notes to it and seeing again, it'll happen when it happens. It's it's bringing the work to clients from a perspective of having walked the path. And now being able to look back and help other people walk that path. Helping them understand that yeah, okay, it took me seven years. But hopefully now I can distill that a lot better for you to be able to get you to a place that I'm at a hell of a lot quicker than I did. And also knowing that sometimes it will take that long. You know, if we're not prepared to look at something, we're not going to look at it until we're ready. And so again, having them be, you know, kind of graceful with themselves to sometimes go you know what, I'm not ready to look at that. I don't want to deal with that yet. Fine. Let's park it. It's being in full choice. And I think that's the beauty and the magic. And you know, I don't know what's coming. I don't know what's going to happen in two months, let alone six, let alone 12. I have a grand vision of what I want. But again, the universe may decide different. Right? Right. It's dynamic. Just gotta trust that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Nicole Bellisle: 44:51

Wow, well, perhaps a beautiful place to leave listeners of coming back to that choice point as well. It's a choice what we pick up and when and deciding when it's right for us. And I want to I want to give you the last word here, if there's anything that you're wanting to leave listeners with, as we wrap up here, or invite them to if there are ways that they can learn more about you and your work. And yeah, I just so appreciate everything that we covered in this beautiful conversation.

Unknown: 45:22

Thank you so much. I think the the thing I want to leave people with is, you know, I guess the meaning behind that title of my book. You know, when I was denying my divinity, and papering over the facade of my messiness, trying to pretend that I had my shit together. My human existence was really tough. When I bring that divine, messy human into the light, I am honoring the divine in me, I'm also honoring the messiness and understanding that it will always be there. And it's made my human existence so much easier. And so if we can tap into that side I'd then that prioritizing of internal truth of external influence becomes easier, because we're able to turn down the noise on the outside world and tap into that divine messy self. To see what fits for us in this moment right now, before we then move forward taking action, it's a slowing down. It's a quietening. It's a listening to self, rather than a running forward and hoping to hell that you can just push through it all. And and I think if people can tap into that, they will start to recognize that they have all of the answers they need within them. Sometimes they just need a bit of perspective in terms of dusting it off or shaping it or helping them put it into, I guess, a package that works for them. And so if anyone wants to find out more, they can just go to my website, which is Amanda kake.com.au. And all my social links are there. So yeah.

Nicole Bellisle: 46:59

Amanda, Kate, this has been wonderful. Thank you so much for being here, listeners. Thanks for tuning in. And we'll see you next week.

Unknown: 47:06

Thank you