Humanizing Leadership through Authenticity and Vulnerability | Gerardo Segat | Ep. 29

In this week's episode, join us for an enlightening conversation with Gerardo Segat, a distinguished CEO, Chairman, and entrepreneur turned international business coach, as we delve into the transformative power of authentic leadership.

We unpack the often overlooked truth that leading with vulnerability and authenticity yields far greater results than traditional, fear-based approaches. Through our dialogue, Gerardo offers profound insights into maintaining humanity in leadership amidst the complexities of today's tech-driven world.

Discover the keys to navigating uncertainty with radical clarity, humanity, and positivity, and learn how aligning inner values with external actions can lead to not just successful outcomes, but deep fulfillment and connection.


Key topics explored in this episode include:

• The impact of authentic, vulnerable leadership versus traditional fear-based methods.
• Strategies for remaining human-centric in an era where technology risks overshadowing genuine connection.
• The concept of leading with radical clarity, humanity, and positivity to master today's business challenges.
• Transforming the four universal fears into pillars of love-driven, liberated leadership.
• The future of leadership: cultivating a culture of vulnerability, support, and mutual growth.

Tune in to uncover the indispensable role of emotional transparency in achieving purpose-driven, impactful leadership, and how creating environments of empathy and mutual respect can lead to shared victories and a thriving organizational culture.

Learn more about Gerardo Segat, whose "purpose and legacy is humanizing leadership," and whose "secret weapon is sensitivity." (How could you not after a purpose statement like that?)

https://gerardosegat.com/ 

Learn more about Living Leaders at https://livingleaders.org

Transcript

Speaker 1: 1:01

Hey leaders, welcome back. As you know, I get to have the most incredible conversations on this show with leaders who are really walking the talk, embodying this new paradigm of doing business, and I'm coming to you on the other side of this conversation with our guest today, gerardo Sagat, and I am just absolutely filled on a sole level with hope, love, vision for what the future can hold for us if we are able to show up in our authenticity and our vulnerability. There's a whole different set of outcomes or consequences that naturally or organically come when we lead from this place. Gerardo is really on a mission to humanize leadership and he has this incredible way of going first when it comes to modeling vulnerability in safe spaces that he's helping to curate for other leaders, effectively inviting them into their own authenticity and vulnerability, inviting them to embody these skill sets that are more human-based or more emotion-based, these skill sets that are not gonna go away, even as tech radically transforms our culture and our world. We're going to need leaders who are connected to their human sentience and to their humanity. Gerardo is really on a mission to help leaders uncover exactly that.

Speaker 1: 2:30

In today's episode, gerardo shares some amazing real-world examples, as well as some frameworks to really help us. We explore topics like overcoming our fear as leaders, and Gerardo shares the top four fears that when working with leaders from around the globe, he has noticed that their fears really boil down to these four fears, and he shares what's possible on the other side of moving through. He also helps to paint the picture of what becomes possible in our lives and our companies and teams when we live from a place of radical positivity, radical humanity and radical clarity. Inside the episode we'll get into what he really means by each of these, with some practical tips and examples for how we can ground these into our own day-to-day practices. What I absolutely love about this conversation with Gerardo is that it acknowledges that leadership is often an inner journey. First and foremost, goals that we set for ourselves as leaders are not something that exists just out there, these things that we chase.

Speaker 1: 3:40

There is a deep sense of purpose and values-based goals that exist in each and every one of us that is unique and if we can uncover these, so much becomes possible in the ripple effect of the impact that we then have. Gerardo also understands that leaders are often faced with the impossible task of navigating the old paradigm that is very rooted in fear, in control, in some of the false beliefs that leaders are supposed to have all the answers or know it all, and there's a level of isolation that can happen, a level of loneliness that can happen when we are leading on an island or leading from the top of a hierarchy with no one to really lean on and be vulnerable, with no one to really share what it is that we're going through because we have to hold this illusion of having it all figured out. We have to wear these masks as leaders, but what happens if we, as leaders, are models for taking off this mask and stepping into a new, authentic, humanized version of leadership and of work? That is what we get into inside today's conversation. It was honestly so nourishing on a soul level, as I mentioned, on a heart level, and I think you'll really feel in your bodies the difference between the paradigm of leadership that Gerardo is painting a picture of versus the template of leadership that we have traditionally been sold in, these more fear-based organizations rooted in scarcity, rooted in hyper-individualism all these things that we see at playing out at a global scale and are leading us towards a future that feels unsustainable.

Speaker 1: 5:35

Gerardo has a different model and gives some practical ways to understand when you're in that model instead of the old paradigm. So, again, I can't wait to get into this conversation. I know you're gonna take so much out of it. Let's dive in, gerardo. Thank you so much for being here and welcome to the Living Leaders Podcast. I know we have a lot to potentially get into today, just given your experience and how you're thinking about humanizing work and bringing more authenticity into leadership, and so thank you for being here and going on this journey together today.

Speaker 2: 6:09

And Nicole, thank you for inviting me to your podcast.

Speaker 1: 6:13

My pleasure, gerardo, I think, giving your vast experience with entrepreneurship being a chairman, being a CEO, I mean you've sort of seen leadership from all different vantage points and many different scales of business and of impact. So I think where I'd love to start today, learning about your leadership journey and how your definition of leadership or success has evolved over time.

Speaker 2: 6:40

I think we have to go back in the past. Well, I come from, you know, I'm kind of one of those guys who has taken a direction that did not belong to me. Because of live events, I lost my dad when I was six and my mom when I was 15. So didn't have any money, Study at university was paying off my study by organizing parties and clubs, et cetera. So that somehow built within myself an idea of success that was very much based on outer elements. So, you know, I had in my blood being an entrepreneur because my dad was an entrepreneur, and so the idea of a successful entrepreneur to me looked like, you know, big group, lots of people, lots of offices, lots of money, you know, lots of these external signs. So that is the direction I took.

Speaker 2: 7:47

And then what happened is that once I got there, I actually had this strange feeling. So okay, and you know what's next? First question, and second, also, you know, I was standing in that position and saying, but this is not so funny. You know, this is not so meaningful, this is not so fulfilling. And, to be honest, I was very lucky I reached that position, because I guess maybe by now, if I didn't, I would still be, you know, pursuing that.

Speaker 2: 8:26

But you know, when I got there, I, you know, I had this kind of feeling, so that somehow at that time I actually decided I said, okay, I'm gonna get rid of all this, okay, and so I'm gonna exit my business. You know, I started a small business myself, a secretary in a service office, and it became a 400 people operation with 10 offices around the world, et cetera, et cetera. So I sold back, I exited my business, sold it back to my partners, and I didn't know, to be honest, what I was going to do. So it was a kind of leap in the dark. And then, gradually, you know, little by little, then we went into a completely different direction.

Speaker 2: 9:22

So I liked coaching and I re-qualified as a coach. You know, all these gradually even going, taking that direction meant looking inside, okay, and start looking inside myself. So more inner than outer. And so, to answer your question, the events, the way that my career evolved and the way the leadership for me evolved, was from outer to more inner, okay, and now, at this point, after I changed, I exited my business in 2016,. So it's now seven years and now it restarts going outside, but from inside, so it's kind of inside out, but that is the way leadership changed. For me, leadership is inner, it's not outer anymore.

Speaker 1: 10:23

I love the recognition of that shift and I'm reminded of this book I think it's called the Second Mountain where it introduces this concept of climbing the first mountain of success and getting to the top.

Speaker 1: 10:39

And we do this through all the conventional means necessary and the traditional definitions of success that we've sort of been enculturated into through our culture, through our context, through our upbringing, anything like this, and that actually getting to the top of that gives us this vantage point of huh, there is actually something missing.

Speaker 1: 10:59

This is more hollow than I would have thought. Getting there is not actually getting there in the sense of how we might want to feel. And so I really resonate with your story of getting through some of that more traditional success climbing to the top, so to speak, and then kind of seeing wait a minute, there's got to be something more here and then being faced with that choice to take a big leap of faith and I love that you went for it and that you made the change, because I think not everyone does. And the fact that taking that leap of faith kind of brought you to the more internal aspects of leadership I think is really beautiful and ripe for where leadership seems to be going on the planet, like you said, so I want to dive into that a little bit, to just understand more about this inside out approach to leadership. What does this really mean to you and what does this look like in practice, as you've been uncovering this inside out approach?

Speaker 2: 12:06

Once you actually start doing it, because of whatever reason mine was what I explained before Somehow you start gradually smelling it and you actually it's like eating a nice plate of pasta or a bad plate of pasta. So you start, the taste, the smell of it is much nicer and therefore this invites you to discover more, eat more, etc. I think bottom line, what I think is crucial, is actually to have objectives that are inner and not only outer, either to have only inner objective or to have inner and outer objectives. Okay, by the way, the outer objectives that you may want, from my experience, are simply outcomes of what you do inside of you, and so setting yourself inner objectives, I think, is very, very important for guiding you in the right direction.

Speaker 1: 13:22

I'm really hearing in what you're saying that when we get in touch with that level of attunement or that level of values alignment within ourselves, that I love what you said, that you can you develop a taste for it, you develop a smell for it and you kind of know when you're in it.

Speaker 1: 13:41

And what I hear in what you're saying is like we can trust that, we can trust ourselves to know the difference and we can trust ourselves to know when a goal is coming from that space, from that values aligned space, coming from kind of the inside out, as you said, instead of maybe just subscribing to a goal or a narrative that we have seen externally, that we adopt because we think we should, or we adopt because we think it's going to give us the belonging that we seek and yet often don't know how to articulate that.

Speaker 1: 14:18

This is a big part of what we're after as human beings. And so when I imagine goals coming from this place of inner alignment or values alignment and I imagine a group of people beginning to do that as well and kind of coming into this more self aware space, the possibilities feel really endless to me as far as the type of team or company that that can evolve into. And so I'm curious what you've seen as far as multiple people kind of coming together in this self aware, values, aligned, purpose driven, letting their goals come from the inside out, like what becomes possible when we get to do that with others who are committed to leading from this way too, if that makes sense.

Speaker 2: 15:12

That's a big question.

Speaker 1: 15:15

I'm full of them. I'm full of big questions.

Speaker 2: 15:18

First, I wanted to give you a kind of a small example.

Speaker 2: 15:24

Okay, yeah, because we are talking very philosophical, but the reality is then these can translate into practice.

Speaker 2: 15:33

So, very small example If you think about your next important meeting, okay, and you normally have objectives for that meeting, I want to, you know, end up the meeting with a contract signed or we have, you know, those are always external Okay.

Speaker 2: 15:53

So if, together with this, or if, in to replace that outer objective, you actually set yourself as a goal at the end of the meeting, I want to feel exit, or I want to feel why that often should even changes the way that you prepare the meeting and what you're actually going to do during that meeting, okay. So that's a very, you know, practical example of when I say, even in a tiny event, okay, just together, without the signs, add an inside sign if you want, okay, how, I don't, I want to end up the meeting. What do I want to feel at the end of the meeting? And I'm going to give you a second example. That's a little bit more, that's a bigger one, but it is still something that you can do. When you say inner objectives, you know, in our leadership, daily life everybody, we, you know, we shout we wear masks, we blame, we ignore, we postpone, we destroy.

Speaker 2: 17:11

We you know, we judge, you know all those behaviors, harmful behaviors okay, we all have them, come from fears that we have. Okay, so they are harmful defensive behavior from fears. Now, what I did, and also what I then, throughout the years, did with my clients, is to try and build up this pyramid to get from those harmful behaviors to the ultimate fears that are causing these behaviors. So, you know, continuously asking myself, okay, but why this behavior? Why this fear? Because you might end up with fear, but those are not the ultimate ones, there might be intermediate fears. So I built up this pyramid and what I ended up is I ended up with four fears. So the four ultimate fears of a leader. The first fear is being meaningless. Okay, so no meaning in what you do, no meaning in your life, in yourself meaningless. Second fear, big fear, is loneliness, so being lonely or ending up alone. The third fear is dependency From something or from somebody, today or in the future. And the fourth one is uncertainty. So those are the four ultimate fears of a leader. We all have them, at just different intensity, a different level, okay, so now you know, in an easy way, if you flip those fears, you come to what I call the inner treasures of a leader. So meaning love, freedom and certainty. So those are the inner treasures. Only every leader has them inside. They just need to go and look and find them With an inner journey. So that's another example. So myself, today, I Set myself my objectives are meaning love, freedom, certainty. When you set yourself this kind of inner objective, the decisions you take, what you do, how you see things Changes completely Absolutely. So this is to give your audience a practical example what to do. So what I can do is actually build this pyramid yourself and get to those ultimate fears, flip them and then you see what kind of inner objectives you can have.

Speaker 2: 20:22

To answer your question about what can happen, I think you know lots happens Individually, okay, and therefore lots can happen at in any community where the individual is a part of Individually. I can tell you Probably the Two very strong things, consequences effects Well, three I think. One is radical positivity. So when you, your life is, when you are authentic, when you are vulnerable, when you are have deep authenticity, when you have a purpose in life, you know what happens is that you always look at a positive side of things always and you that that says, you know, if you see a person that is like that, it's a clear sign that there's something inside. You know the deeply authentic human connection. Purpose exit, even the the most negative, even the most negative. The second is Radical humanity. So all those human skills that we call soft skills, that in reality I don't know why we call soft, because they are human Empathy, gratitude, you know your, your name, everything very strong in in the person.

Speaker 2: 22:07

And the third one, which is the one that I personally like the most, is Radical clarity. So you know we talk about intuition, you know something inside, so and somehow we say, okay, go and listen to your intuition and act According to your intuition. Somehow it's like an inner voice. If you want, that is, hmm, you know, there is sometimes distance or there is fog collided the way you want inside that you can't see and you hear a little voice Saying you something Okay, that is yourself, your inner, okay, that is your, your inner human being telling you things. Okay. So you say, okay, follow that. So intuition exists because there is no, because there is no connection with a human, inner human being. You know we call it intuition. The reality is when there is connection, it turns into clarity. So people who are deeply connected, people who are Authentic, people who are vulnerable, people who have a purpose in the life they are, they have this radical clarity.

Speaker 2: 23:26

Now what the consequence of radical clarity is that With radical clarity you create magical spaces. Okay, so the leader who has radical clarity Creates magical spaces. Those are, I don't know, win-win scenarios. So in any kind of situation they go a difficult negotiation, management in the company they create win-win scenarios. Okay, they're able to see and spot what is the win-win scenario. That is always there. Sometimes we don't see it, but if we have this radical clarity, then we are able to spot immediately.

Speaker 2: 24:11

The second type I've seen is impossible to possible. So something that looks impossible, turn it into possible. Those are the kind of magical spaces that I call magical spaces, because then you know they spread positivity all around. And you know these people. They are simply they are light. You know they are like shining stars. So they they spread light all over because it is contagious. Then the effect is just spreading all of that around them. So the same goes to the people, so to the team, and from the team it goes to the families and it goes to you know, it just spreads because you know I tell you one thing, and sorry if I talk too much, but this is beautiful Thank you people, any people, and leaders Are just looking forward to find themselves in two scenarios where they can be the true self.

Speaker 2: 25:17

Anyone is looking forward, Desperately looking forward to be in a situation where they can be themselves. Now, if you think about leaders, Okay, well, you know we demand from leaders, you know we ask them to have human skills, we ask them to. They are on the spotlight and therefore they are subject to judgment and if more than anyone, okay, those people are in situations where it's not easy To be the true self. What we demand from leaders they, where we put them Somehow Leads them To be lonely. You know it's, it's a solitude position of that, this desire to be in situation where you can be yourself. It applies to everyone, but fully. This in particular, Okay, and the you know, nowadays this is coming out. I can give you an example of this.

Speaker 2: 26:36

I am a member of this organization called YPO, Young President Organization. It's a community that was founded 70 years ago in the US and it's now the largest community of CEO and leaders worldwide 35,000 people in 140 countries. Now they've done a survey. They've asked what is number one reason for your membership? Okay, we're talking about the community of CEOs. What is the number one reason for your membership? And the answer has been. I will explain to you what it is.

Speaker 1: 27:21

It really points to what you were saying about loneliness as well, and what I have been really feeling, as you've been speaking so profoundly, is that if we really distill this down to a patterns level insight, it feels like the difference between leading from fear and leading from love. And when I think about the four fears that you mentioned and really facing those and getting into this space of radical positivity, humanity and clarity, there's a relaxation in a lot of that too, in fully being in our humanness, our clarity of purpose, relaxing into trusting that things will work out when we align and when we connect authentically, and so I can see how organizations that are being led from these aspects of radical positivity, humanity and clarity. There's almost a relaxing into the ability to be authentic and the ability to stay connected to our intuition, as you were saying. Like I was really feeling, wow, there's something about that. When we're connected and attuned to that more intuitive intelligence, that's maybe always available, but if we're in a fear state, we sort of block access to it.

Speaker 1: 28:55

And I think about one of the other fears that you mentioned of uncertainty and how we are at such a time when leaders are, as you said, expected to do these impossible things to navigate complexity and uncertainty, to have the answers, to be able to unlock the full potential of their team. It's like what does that even mean? Like these are impossible scenarios for anyone leader to hold. And yet, if we can kind of let that go, trust the intuition to guide us, trust ourselves to really see the authenticity or the potential in other people, the solutions that come from that open receptivity, as opposed to the solutions or ideas that come from that contracted fear state of how I think we're running many of our organizations today. It feels so different in my body, right. So I'm also reminded of what you said in the beginning of the conversation, of this is something you really learn to smell and taste and feel the difference in your body, even energetically.

Speaker 1: 30:07

And so, as you've been speaking, I've just really noticed that in these two comparisons, and it doesn't surprise me that this global organization of CEOs are most needing these safe spaces I know that's a term that's often overused and abused these days of creating safe space, but a place where they can really beat themselves, take the mask off, where it's okay not to have the answer.

Speaker 1: 30:36

It's okay to be a whole human and be going through a divorce or having an infant child and trying to lead a company where you've got one team member who's struggling with alcohol or drug abuse. It's like the human nature of what we face. We often don't have the space inside our organizations to move through that and it feels and I know you say this in some of your material this emotions focused approach to teams and really being in the desired feeling state and then letting your behavior or your action come from that. So there's just so much that you're talking about. That is a wild paradigm shift from the fear-based organization into this open and receptive clarity of purpose and I yeah, I'm just soaking it all in and love how you've articulated what becomes possible in all of that too. I'll just leave the floor open for whatever is maybe still percolating in you around either these fears or the emotions focused team building and what you're seeing in that space.

Speaker 2: 31:48

Yes, I want to tell you one thing now, because one of the things that normally people say you know it's you know you can be successful. Without that you can reach success, and that is true now, well, external. So if you can get to or reach external goals if you want, you don't actually need that, but the reason why you need it is that at a certain point in your life, if you only focus on external, there will be one moment and the latest will be just before you die that you regret, that you will have resentments. Okay. So, if you know, taking care of your inner, looking your inner, knowing, being cautious, etc. Allows you to avoid that at a certain point in life, whatever your life events are. Number two is do you know what you're missing? If you actually add that? Okay, and I'm going to give an example.

Speaker 2: 33:06

There is a beautiful book that I recommend to you and your audience, called the Heart of Business, and it is written by a guy called Uberjouli. He's a French guy but who about 10 years ago, was called a CEO of an American group, best Buy, a large consumer electronics. The book talks about this story. Okay, and I recommend it because it has a lot of practical examples and it tells the story of this guy who was called to become the CEO of Best Buy. At the time, best Buy was almost bankrupt. So what he did? He came in and placed human connection and purpose at the center of the business. What happened is, after a few years, the stock price multiplied by 11. It is one of the most totes cases taught in business schools, one of the most famous turn around in business history.

Speaker 2: 34:10

Okay, so it's not that it is nice. Okay, it is nice. And it also reflects on external signs. So we don't forget the outcomes. But the outcomes are a simple consequence. Okay, but they're there.

Speaker 2: 34:34

And you may think, oh, yes, I can reach success, but the question is, what are you able to reach? What would you be able to reach if you looked inside and had a kind of inside out life, etc. I can tell you my example. I can tell you that, looking outside became a successful entrepreneur. Build up a group, 400 people, 10 offices around the world, etc. Okay, impacted 400 people. Today, I created a show which is called Out as Humans. It is featured at World Leader Convention, okay, and the aims are creating that safe space that you talked before for leaders to open up to be vulnerable, take out their mask, etc. Etc. So impact the world. Okay. So the change that happened to me by going in there is impact 400 people. Yes, maybe I could have done you know little acquisitions here. There become more. You know thousands. Imagine thousands of people impact the world in the other way. That's my experience.

Speaker 1: 36:02

Yeah, that's really a shift away from chasing goals externally as well and letting it sort of be the byproduct of how we live and who we become, letting it be the consequences. You say, and I think flipping the sequence feels really critical. It's not you chase this, you get it and then you become better or more successful or a more holistic person. It's not if this, then I become, that, it's flipping that equation or flipping that sequence and saying, no, let me become that first and really get to know my purpose and how I want to show up in this world, how I want to feel, and then let everything else sort of be a byproduct of that. And, as you said in the beginning, I just imagine the ripple effect of that type of impact as well, as we impact our employees or our teammates and that ripples out to their families and their communities and beyond, and that to me feels much more like an ecosystem or just a system that is built on love, generosity, reciprocity.

Speaker 1: 37:22

You talked a lot about mutualism earlier as well, and I can see all of those quote unquote symptoms, if you will, of that sort of way of being becoming possible, and I don't think that those things are possible. These more purpose centered organizations, like you gave in this example with Best Buy. I don't know that those types of outcomes are possible in the model that we've been operating in, and so I also want to ask the question, because there can be so much attachment to our own fears that it can feel so real in our minds, right. So how can we let go of the old way of doing things without fear and really kind of trust this inside out approach for anyone who's afraid to do that and to kind of take that leap or make that shift? What?

Speaker 2: 38:22

would you say to them? But I think what would I say to them is it's fine, you know, because it's fine that it is like this, I mean, it's normal that it is like this. I mean, I think the first way to approach this is it's fine, and the second is it's fine as a starting point is not that there, but the direction must be a different direction. Now that direction must be structured in a way that it is gradual, because you know, we are all different, people are different. But, to be honest with you, you know, I've experienced board meetings, I've experienced virtual events with unknown people, where people share the most intimate fragilities just after half an hour, okay. So, yes, the key is to target leaders, because then from leaders, you have a ripple effect downwards, and so the key is to create safe spaces for leaders to change. Okay, and those spaces should be structured in a way where you know it is gradual, okay. And when it is gradual, then people little by little open up. Okay.

Speaker 2: 39:55

Sometimes one of the things that I do is to get speech about vulnerability to boards. Okay, so I go and talk about vulnerability half an hour, and half an hour and half an hour I actually share my deepest fragility, and then I ask them to share this. 99% of people share it half an hour, okay. So it's not. You know, your mind, our mind, my mind, your mind is protective. It is built to protect yourself, okay, it is created to protect yourself. So it sends you thoughts. This is impossible, this is risky, this is fearful, this is like a counter. It is the mind. The mind is like, you know, like you have an arm, a leg, okay, you have a mind. You're not your mind. You have a mind, okay, so your mind sends you thoughts. Okay, most of those thoughts are protected, and so it's normal you have some kind of resistance when you're asking people to.

Speaker 2: 41:11

You know, share fragilities, but the reality is that people are just looking forward. They desire to be in those spaces. So it can happen that they are in that space but they don't open up. You know what will happen For sure. Maybe they don't open up, but for sure they will say I'm sorry, I can't. Now that I'm sorry, I can't, which I get sometimes in those kinds of events with boards, okay, values, even more than sharing the vulnerability, because that's a first step, okay, and then what they will see is that they will see other people doing it and they will see how they feel and they will see the effects, and they will see all these, and so next time, in the second opportunity, they will do a little bit, and then a little bit more, and then a little bit more, and then a little bit more. You know, but this is how it happens. So, providing something that gradually allows them to open up, to be vulnerable, it's a way. The best way that you can do this and therefore create that safe space that allows graduality is by example, by example.

Speaker 2: 42:34

You know the reason why those people share intimate fragilities and end up crying or hugging. You know, it is an incredible human experience that I live every time. Okay, it's because I go there and be myself, it is because I go there and share my fragility. And so, you know, somehow this is contagious, because humanity is contagious Wherever you go. You know, wherever you go, I had experiences of what you may think, that the worst, the most material people on earth, even sitting up there, prime Minister, I had experiences. Okay, that you know, all different people are the same, exactly the same. It works this way.

Speaker 1: 43:29

Yeah, we are all human, definitely, and I love thinking about fragility or vulnerability as contagious as well and kind of being bold enough to go first and to really model that and be the living invitation to others to discover their own vulnerability, because it sounds like you're really in going first and kind of modeling this behavior, modeling this authenticity.

Speaker 1: 43:59

You're making it safe for them to do that too.

Speaker 1: 44:02

And we are creatures of mimicry in a lot of ways, right, we mimic behavior that we like, we mimic people that we like, we learn by observing how others do things.

Speaker 1: 44:12

It's a very even though we get to move at our own pace, as you were saying, and everyone's going to be a bit different because of our unique intersectionality and the maybe, the traumas that we've had or the past that we have, whatever it might be, we all get to move at our own pace.

Speaker 1: 44:29

And so I'm hearing, you know, we don't need to steamroll that, we don't need to force ourselves to be more vulnerable than we're ready for or to be, to put ourselves in these spaces of vulnerability before we're ready to do that or before we feel safe enough to do that. We can curate spaces that elicit that and, at the same time, what I'm hearing too in what you're saying is it seems like this modeling is a way to sort of accelerate the opening up, not in a forced way, but in a very organic way, where maybe someone is going along at their natural pace but there's sort of this moment of opportunity where they could do something that would, in another space, feel uncomfortable or maybe feel out of the norm. So I love this idea of being really conscious of not only the spaces that we, as leaders, curate, but making sure that we end up in the spaces that curate us too, because it goes both ways.

Speaker 2: 45:36

Yes, you know the word the press, the media, the computer, these that you know it's always the leader has to the leader. But the reality is that what is missing? You know, look as a CEO, okay, myself, yes, you know you have to give positive feedback and people and this and that, yes, it's true. But you know what I wouldn't like somebody coming here and saying, oh, you've done a great job. You know, the reality is that when you are number one, there's nobody to do this. Okay, so that's why the place of the leader is, I say, solitude and loneliness and so on.

Speaker 2: 46:18

But the reality is it is crucial that they, you know, do this change, because then there is a ripple effect downwards.

Speaker 2: 46:29

Okay, and this graduality, again, to try and give you know your team, okay, you sit on a monthly basis and, you know, start talking about you know myself, my team, my company, you know all of this and just, you know update and say, okay, what's in the last month? What is the worst feeling I had? What is the best feeling I had? And then you say, okay, this was caused by this event and this event, instead of you know, talking events, talk an emotional update. You know that's a very easy way to instigate that change because when you start talking emotions, you start getting inside, okay, and it's easier than sharing your most intimate fragility. But it is maybe easier if you sit with other people and say, oh, this month I felt angry because of this and you know, I feel a little bit without energies but feel emotions. Emotional updates okay, good, bad, good, bad, insecure my work, you know, my team, my company, etc. That's a practical example of how you can start changing that.

Speaker 1: 47:53

Yeah, it reminds me. I'm part of this group called the Old Girls Club and it's all mostly female. Well, I guess it is all female or identifying as female executives, business owners, founders, and there's a channel in the Slack group that is called how Are you Doing Really? And it's amazing to me that even in an online space, even in a virtual space, there's been this community there's about 1200 women at this point that the way the host has kind of curated the people, but also it's the questions that she asks as well and the different channels that she invites us into.

Speaker 1: 48:36

And there's so many of us who are either solopreneurs or CEOs and we're facing exactly this human challenge that you're naming of solitude, loneliness, and so it's amazing to me like we'll turn to this Slack channel, this virtual community, to really share how Are you Doing Really, and it's all emotional based updates and we get to hear the vulnerabilities there, and I've learned so much from witnessing others in their vulnerability and I've really, over the years and maybe you've seen this too I've really adopted this belief that we as leaders are more and more becoming space facilitators.

Speaker 1: 49:24

We kind of have this, I think of it, as like a sacred responsibility to ask better questions, whether those questions are human or based in innovation and visioning, and it sort of invites everyone to have a seat at the table and it's kind of this new vision of what a leader even is, and so I'm kind of curious to go there. Next, as we sort of wrap up is as you look at the way not only the way leadership has evolved throughout your journey as a leader and now in the ways that you're supporting other leaders, like I know, you talk a lot about leading four leaders or leaders for leaders, and in the example you gave, we could really see that when you look ahead to the future and this, this mix of emerging tech and AI, potentially increased complexity and uncertainty what do you see the future role of leaders being and what are some of the most coveted skills that you would hope they have?

Speaker 2: 50:32

The more we somehow decide that the direction is tech, so AI, because this is the direction the less humanity apparently is present and therefore the more humanity becomes the changemaking skill of leaders. And a friend of mine recently asked it's funny this a friend recently asked what will be the type of human intelligences for AI that would be least likely for AI to surpass humans? Okay, now the answer from chat GPT has been five intelligences. So the first one is bodily, kinesthetic intelligence, the second one is naturalistic intelligence, the third one is existential intelligence, the fourth one is interpersonal intelligence and the fifth one is interpersonal intelligence. Okay, so, to summarize, awareness of your body, awareness of nature, awareness of your values, your identity. So the reason why you exist, why do you exist? Okay, the awareness of the other person, interpersonal and interpersonal is self-awareness. Okay, so not me.

Speaker 2: 52:14

Chat GPT seems to tell me that the skill that they will not get is awareness, self, not only self-awareness, awareness in general. So I don't say this. I've been told by chat GPT that this is where the direction that we are going, which means inner to me. Okay, so the direction is inner. So anything inner is leadership skill of the future. For me, the leadership skill of the future is awareness, and part of this awareness is self-awareness, and so I see in the future, that's the direction where leadership will go. So more human skill, the development of human skill, will be crucial, etc. Etc and everything that we talked about why? Because anything that happens is evolving. It is meant to be to bring us a better state of being. Even AI that you may fear and that somehow you know, anything that comes, it is to bring us to a better state as a community, globally. So everything that happens globally and personally, it's exactly the same thing.

Speaker 1: 53:53

I believe that too, really to my core, that it's a journey of constant evolution, and I love that even AI is telling us that really, the magic and the beauty of being human is our humanity. It is our sentience.

Speaker 2: 54:11

So AI tells me that the skill I should focus on are those ones. Okay, so this is what it is and it makes sense.

Speaker 2: 54:26

It makes sense, to be honest in the sense that it is more and more scarce. We say more tech, more tech, more tech, more tech. So less human, less human. So by saying that, the reality is that human becomes the changemaking skill, and so this is how the world will evolve, in a more positive way, because AI stress human skills, so we will focus on those human skills and therefore, when we focus on human skills, the world will be a better place in the future.

Speaker 1: 55:00

Yeah, and the tech really gives us the space to be able to do a lot of that inner work, because I think leaders and really anyone in Western work culture, there's been kind of a scarcity of time and a scarcity of energy if we're operating from burnout or fatigue, and there hasn't been as much space as there seems to be now to really look at these things.

Speaker 1: 55:27

And we also have the reflection of these big worldly events that invite us to really reflect on our humanity and how do we want to show up for ourselves and each other and what needs to actually go into that, what needs to go into my ability, cultivating my very ability to show up to hard things, or more human based conversation? And yeah, there's, I think there's so much really beautiful human based self responsibility that we get to have. That isn't a burden but it's an evolutionary opportunity. And so I've, yeah, I've enjoyed this conversation with you so much and I really share and hold this, this same vision for the future and evolving into a better, a better space for ourselves and, I guess, want to leave listeners with any opportunities. If they've really been resonating with what you're saying, where can they find you? How can they learn more and be in your presence more.

Speaker 2: 56:31

Well, it's very easy. Visit my website, GerardoSegatcom.

Speaker 1: 56:38

Beautiful. I love yes, I love the simplicity of that. It's clarity.

Speaker 2: 56:44

It's very easy, yes, and you know if I can leave your audience with a suggestion coming from the heart is there is a path that is is being created for each of us and it is that path. It is a path that is able to give all the positive and everything that we like. What we need to do is, unfortunately, we don't have a system of education, we don't have a word that works, that takes us and put us on that path. You know straight away, since the beginning. So my, my suggestion, from my artist to each one of them out there, is to actively go and look for that path in whatever way you think. Coach, you know, whatever is the way that you decide, but take some time to check that whatever direction you are going is your direction and if it isn't, then move on to find what it. What is the direction? I move on to that direction.

Speaker 1: 58:09

What a beautiful place. And invitation to to conclude this conversation, of inviting us to sort of lead ourselves home and be on this path. So thank you for bringing us home to that part of this conversation and for being on the show. It's really been such a joy to traverse these topics with you and to learn from your perspectives. Thank you again, Gerardo, for being on the show.

Speaker 2: 58:34

Thank you, Nicar, for giving voice to my thought.