I hope a lot of people are taking the time to really understand what Martin Luther King did for us not just for black people as people as a whole. I just hope a lot of people take the time to really reflect, dig a little deeper than what you're taught at school, Learn about all the accomplishments that he did, learn about how smart he was, learn about his kids and learn about how great Coretta was as being his partner.
Speaker 2:
Ladies and gentlemen, and anyone else who is here, my name is Dom Lamor. Welcome to the Black man Talking to Mostons podcast. On today's episode, I welcome back Scott Jones to the pod. We spoke about Black History Month, but is it not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots? It'll be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met, and it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned with tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity.
Speaker 2:
Martin Luther King Jr that name is powerful when you hear it. That name embodies a leader of people never elected to the office, but he changed the world. Each Martin Luther King day, I make sure to listen to the Eye of a Dream speech just to reflect on his words. And this year I had a new emotion. I was heartbroken. The older I get, the more I understand that that speech was a plead. A plead for white people, just to see Black people as humans, just to see that people Black people are humans like them. Who wants a future that their children won't have to be afraid to live amongst them because of the color of their skin. That's all Something so simple, something that was created out of thin air. Skin tone of another human was turned into a barrier and flipped people's common sense to believe that humans could be property. Well, clearly, this property and later free property, is human right, but they didn't want to see that.
Speaker 2:
I live in a world now where people wear hats that say make America great again. And just 60 years ago we lived in a country that a man became a hero because he spoke up to a race and said treat us fairly. And he died. He was murdered and he spoke about the fact that he didn't think he would live to see his dream come true, because he believed he would be murdered for telling people this dream of fairness.
Speaker 2:
How can you hear those words and feel pride? How can you hear those words and feel that this country has truly moved past these horrible crimes of humanity. How can you hear the simple message from the 60s that states treat us fairly and accept? Over 400 years of unnecessary treatment is truly over. I tell people all the time that I'm very fortunate to be an African-American at the best time in history for African-Americans. These words are true. But another true statement is this America has not and will not ever make amends for the impossibly fractured history of African-Americans on this planet. If you were to say in your own words what does Black History Month mean to you?
Speaker 1:
Black History Month to me means a time for us to celebrate Black people specifically in history. We love to always say that Black History is American history, but Black History in itself is a very rich culture and a very rich thing within the Black community and it's something to be celebrated. And you can take that as a bad way saying that, why is it only broken down into one month? But you can also look at it as a time where it's nationally recognized, as a time specifically for everybody to realize how important Black history is in the fibers and threads of what makes America America.
Speaker 2:
It's kind of like the idea that people misunderstand what they mean when they say Black Lives Matter. It's like you hear Black Lives Matter and you say, oh, it's the same as being like it's Black History Month and being like, well, it's American history. It's like, no, no, stop that, stop all the extra energy you're throwing on it. The reason this is being highlighted is because, historically, it has not been taught. Actually, it has not been actually pushed or even put into the curriculum.
Speaker 1:
And I'll take it a step further. It's such a big deal and a big conversation that some school districts in multiple states are taking it out of their curriculum altogether because they don't want to really recognize how bad Black people had it for a long time. But in the midst of all of that, we still accomplish great things and it's like they kind of want it to be written out and just kind of put together how they pick and choose as they want it to see. But it's like it's not that. It's a very gritty, it's a very dark, it's a very sad history to where we are now and who can honestly say obviously it's better now, but at the same time it's still not that much better.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, and you and I, of course, went to the great Kirkwood High School. If you were to sit down and say this is how Black history was taught to me, other than African American literature, we all had that class. Other than that class, how would you say you actually learned African American history through social studies? World history, us history, all of those classes?
Speaker 1:
The same basics as everybody. It starts with slavery and then it goes to Harriet Tubman, then we skip to a little bit of Frederick Douglass here and there, really not getting too deep into it, but a little bit. Then you jump all the way to civil rights. You miss that whole reconstruction period. You miss that whole time of once Black people were free after the Civil War and everything. It immediately jumps to Rosa Parks, mon Luther King, jumps to all those mainstream people that we talk about all the time and then it jumps to present day and they're just kind of talking more about athletes and you might hear a little bit about the Million man March.
Speaker 1:
It's very broad. It's not very broken down. I would say that was definitely the teaching in our school district and nothing against it. But that's just what it is. And, like you said, outside of us having that African American history class that we had, I believe it was our senior year that Miss Medleman taught us. It was either our senior or junior year. It might have been junior year. Even in that class she did the best she could with what was given to her, but that's really not saying much. It was just that very broad. Slavery, martin Luther King present day. That's about all it is.
Speaker 2:
And see, I've had multiple conversations about this already and it's really fascinating to me because what I really wish I got in school was like a picture of what it was like in St Louis, what it was like in Kirkwood. I felt like grandma and grandpa and my family were very good about helping me with the history and then, of course, miss Miller and Alvin, of course, helping out, and Kathy and all these parents were really good about saying, oh, this is how this used to be, this is how this was back in our day and this is the difference between now and then. We were really lucky to have that, but I felt like I wanted a lesson, I wanted a class that was like Kirkwood history and we actually got to learn truly what it was like to be African American in the community we lived in now and went through those demons or those great positives. We didn't really know what it was like to be black in Kirkwood then.
Speaker 1:
And honestly, the only black in Kirkwood when you think about it is Meach and Park Exactly. Nobody can tell us anything about growing up black in Kirkwood except for that everybody lived in Meach and Park and even that look at how shrunk down Meach and Park is now compared to when we were kids, like our siblings and stuff have only known Meach and Park for what it is. They don't even know that it used to go all the way up to that best Western and everything and all that and there was a barber shop in the park and just like how much bigger homecoming was. I feel like when Meach and Park was chocolate city. I feel like that's when Kirkwood black he kind of like had their own of everything. But that was also a time when everybody's like oh, don't go to Meach and Park.
Speaker 1:
Me and Alvin were talking a couple of weeks ago and he was like, yeah, he's like y'all used to party in Meach and Park. He's like we didn't used to do that. Yeah, like, you know what I mean. So it's like it's just like I'm sure if we really did break it down and go talk to some of them, like older Kirkwood people, and ask them how Kirkwood was the black experience coming up for them in those later days. Like you probably got some family members. I know I have some who were a part of those first couple classes of being integrated at Kirkwood. I want to hear how those days went for them.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I would love to know what it was like to be in that first class, how they were treated, if there was any friction, if there was any riots, if there was any real uprising because I'm sure there was.
Speaker 1:
And it's like I'm sure it wasn't to the extent of, like Ruby Bridges, Little Rock Nine, but we don't know it could have been that bad.
Speaker 2:
It could have, and it could have been swept under the rug.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
But once again, I think we would have heard more from family. The thing that really gets me is, you know, yes, when I was younger, of course, my uncles were opposite of Alvin. They actually were in Meacham Park doing that.
Speaker 1:
Right.
Speaker 2:
Some of all the lands was famous for knowing. You know everybody out there and doing what they do, and the difference was when did that change? We know there was a time where Meacham Park was just a fantastic African-American community that was thriving. We know there was a time that was like that. We understand that. And then, of course, like every black community in St Louis, a lot of horrible things that happened 50s, 60s, 70s. You had people being drafted into war in the 70s to Vietnam. You had people being drafted into Korea. You had all of these African-Americans who more than likely would pulled away from their society and that more than likely changed it from this thriving community into this horrifying nightmare that they felt they had to cut in half so that we can stop the violence.
Speaker 2:
But no one wants to talk about the true reason why it was violent. They don't want to talk about the things that they were taking away from that community and we'll never truly get that answer from both sides. I know my folks are telling me what I hear over here and that's all I have to hear, but I'll never get a confession or a true telling of. You know, it was very much the way we lived. We feel horrible for how we did it. It was the way we were taught, that was what we did. We'll never get that admission. We'll never get that understanding of what truly affected this incredible community, because it was not a bad community to start with.
Speaker 1:
And we can go back to when me and you were on the podcast last time they Kirkwood is like a fantasy fever dream almost, and it's like they don't want to remember some of that stuff and that's probably why we've never really had those conversations of what happened to Meacham Park. Same thing, it's like they brushed under the rug. We haven't heard anything about since Cookie had that whole thing at City Hall.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
Like we haven't heard about with Kevin Johnson, Like if he wouldn't have got executed they would have brushed all of that under the rug.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
And we would, he would have just been sitting in jail and we would have never even thought about it ever again. And it's just how Kirkwood is. But it's like we still see shades of it, just by kind of those train tracks, of how divided Kirkwood still is. Like you have Meacham Park, but then it's like, okay, think about, like my mom's street, there's really no other black people over there.
Speaker 1:
You got to go more towards Robinson and like kind of where you live, that's kind of like where the black people of Kirkwood are, and it's over there like from Meacham Park all the way down to like Marshall Field, greenbrier, those Kirkwood Bluff apartments. Yeah, feel more by where my grandma's house is, but that's very close. You go down to the end of her street, cross those train tracks back there, you're in Meacham Park, like you know what I mean. Yeah, it's like Kirkwood has always kind of been. It's not segregated, it's not the worst place to live, but black people kind of know where their spot is in the community and they're not really trying to push that envelope for real.
Speaker 2:
Lastly, because, like I said, I could talk all night about this. I really could, but you got two kids with the Black History Month being this month where, now that we're older, we're trying our best to explore and understand more. I literally read so many books this year already on African Americans that I admire. How do you hope to teach your kids about the importance of Black History Month?
Speaker 1:
I'm going to teach you probably how my parents taught it to me, just by making sure they're exposed to it. Like a lot of the Black History stuff that I learned I didn't learn at school, Like I learned from my white grandmother and learned from my mom and from my grandparents and mythos who were a part of the civil rights struggle, Like they were in the midst of that. They walked with Dr King, they did all of that. They were very much in the thick of helping Black people. But just going forward on my end, it's like when they have to do book reports or autobiographies it's going to be about a Black person and it's not going to be about a Black person who we talk about all the time.
Speaker 1:
Like one of the very specific memories I have that my mom made me do was about Third Good Marshall. I had no idea who Third Good Marshall was like in the fourth or fifth grade doing that book report. I had no idea who he was and I'm sure nobody else did at the time. But it's just making sure they're overly exposed to the greatness of Black people and it's not being taught by their own teachers or somebody who doesn't look like them. They need to be able to understand that there's Black people who have done great things for us. As a people, it might not be looked upon as great overall as such as Black Panthers.
Speaker 2:
Malcolm X Red Hampton.
Speaker 1:
yeah, All of those people, like Marcus Garvey, like a lot of those names that aren't gonna be in those textbooks, but I'm gonna make sure that my kids fully understand and are aware of the greatness that comes with being a Black person in America.
Speaker 2:
I wanna thank you for listening to the Black man Talking Emotions podcast. The opening quote. Credit goes to Martin Luther King Jr and shout out to Scotty for being on the pod. Follow Jones at T-H-E-E-K-I-N-L-E-Y-J-O-N-E-S-2 on Instagram. Please subscribe to the podcast, share the podcast and give us a good rating five stars, please and thank you. You can support the show by clicking the link at the bottom of the episode description. Also, let me know what you're up to this year. We should collab. Follow me at doml underscore a-m-o-u-r. On Instagram or at domlemorecom. I'm Dom Lemore, Much love.