When was the last time a passion project truly captivated your heart? Join me, Dom Lamor, and fellow creator Michael Jordan (not the basketball legend, but just as inspirational in his own right) as we wander through the art of embracing our creative endeavors and the life choices that come with them. From strategizing personal efficiency to cherishing moments with my partner Adrian, this episode uncovers the balance between productivity and personal growth—think less of a juggling act and more of a choreographed dance.
Embark on an auditory expedition from the bustling streets of St. Louis to the serene trails of Missouri's state parks. As your guide, I'll reveal the unexpected joys of urban exploration and how a serene hike can lead to writing a guidebook or uncovering a community of vinyl record lovers. This talk isn't just about the destinations, though; it's about the shared experiences that weave through the challenges of adjustments, the tranquility of nature, and the melodies that soundtrack our lives.
In our grand finale, we toast to the possibility of a renaissance for concept albums and films, basking in the power of cohesive storytelling. The conversation wraps up with a heartfelt thanks to the voices that have graced our podcast and the welcoming embrace of St. Louis, a city that still holds mysteries for me to unravel. So, if you're looking to feed your soul with a blend of art, adventure, and authenticity, fluff up those headphones and settle in for a journey that transcends the airwaves.
When was the last time a passion project truly captivated your heart? Join me, Dom Lamor, and fellow creator Michael Jordan (not the basketball legend, but just as inspirational in his own right) as we wander through the art of embracing our creative endeavors and the life choices that come with them. From strategizing personal efficiency to cherishing moments with my partner Adrian, this episode uncovers the balance between productivity and personal growth—think less of a juggling act and more of a choreographed dance.
Embark on an auditory expedition from the bustling streets of St. Louis to the serene trails of Missouri's state parks. As your guide, I'll reveal the unexpected joys of urban exploration and how a serene hike can lead to writing a guidebook or uncovering a community of vinyl record lovers. This talk isn't just about the destinations, though; it's about the shared experiences that weave through the challenges of adjustments, the tranquility of nature, and the melodies that soundtrack our lives.
In our grand finale, we toast to the possibility of a renaissance for concept albums and films, basking in the power of cohesive storytelling. The conversation wraps up with a heartfelt thanks to the voices that have graced our podcast and the welcoming embrace of St. Louis, a city that still holds mysteries for me to unravel. So, if you're looking to feed your soul with a blend of art, adventure, and authenticity, fluff up those headphones and settle in for a journey that transcends the airwaves.
I've had this idea for a long time. I haven't gotten started on it because I don't know what the end goal is Like could it actually get made? Is it a play? Like, what is it and what could we do with it? And he was really encouraging and basically his perspective was it doesn't matter, just start and things will come. But the point is to just start.
Speaker 3:Ladies and gentlemen, and anyone else who is here, my name is Dom Lamor and you are listening to the Black man Talking Emotions podcast. On today's episode, I speak with Michael Jordan and not the one you're thinking about and we speak about our careers, married life, new adventures and so much more. These are things you should notice anyway. To live only for some future goal is shallow. It's the sights of the mountain which sustain life, not the top. Here's where things grow, but, of course, without the top you can't have any sides. It's the top that defines the sides.
Speaker 3:Adrian asked me what do I want to do differently next year? And I said I want to be more efficient. That was my goal for the year. I don't want to feel like I'm procrastinating. I don't want to feel like I'm lagging off. I don't want to feel like anything was not given the proper amount of time that I needed to give it and things that like we're getting in the way.
Speaker 3:Social media you know, once a year talking to someone, the next second you've been scrolling for 30 minutes. You're like, oh shit, I didn't even realize that. How did that happen? You know, I listened to a lot of podcasts, so that kind of consumes my ears for a lot of the day and I wanted to change that. So I've been doing more books. I stopped getting no social as much. I've been scheduling everything. I literally have been knocking out these episodes and really getting some great conversation out of friends. I've newsletter scheduled to be posted for future episodes already. I future episodes scheduled to be posted.
Speaker 3:With being so, on top of all the extra work, I have found myself, you know, having a lot of extra time as well. So Adrian and I have been able to, you know, go on a walk here and there or actually sit down for dinner and talk, and I'm not rushing to do something else, I'm not rushing out to do anything. It's been really consistent in, like I said, just very efficient, and that's the goal. Man, I just want to keep on improving. That's kind of my goal for the year. I don't want to forget last year. I feel like people have really new year, new me. I hate that term because really I want to take everything that I learned last year, or everything I didn't do last year, and I really want to improve on that. And this year has already started off. I feel like I've already started to hit the stride of creating positive habits, putting myself in places where I can look back and be like, oh damn, I don't even have to worry about that, I already did it and that's going to be crucial.
Speaker 3:I mean, we got some trips coming up this year. We're going to Dominican Republic and Haiti. I might be going to Ireland again. I have a lot of wedding trips. We're going to be going all over the country, but we're going to be busy and I just want to make sure that this, this podcast, is taken care of, because this is one of my favorite things that I do Getting to talk to people, getting to see people like you. I haven't sat down and talked to you in a while. More than likely, it was when we were, when I was in Kirkwood and we went to get coffee together, where I got some you and I time. So, with all that said, I appreciate you being on the pie. How's the time of the year going for you right now?
Speaker 1:First of all, I love kind of hearing where you're at and how good you feel about everything. I think that's wonderful. I think you know you talk about being efficient and I've I've similarly thought a lot about that idea of efficiency, especially with the stuff that I do. I mean, you and I are both creators. I guess I don't really know what the right term is for what we do. I mean, we have things that we do. We have passion projects that we work on. I think the ideal goal is to actually make that passion project be the job. Sometimes I get lost. I realized the other day that I get lost in all of the tasks.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I have so many different things going on that I have too much. I have, like, my hands in too many different places, and I do that because, you know, I have to make money to survive but I want to put everything I can into the projects that I want to work on and want to eventually become, and it just kind of gets stuck in this like web of too many things. Yes, and by trying to do so much, you actually don't do as much, and so, like what you're talking about, I really think that's wonderful, that you are finding your flow essentially and prioritizing what you want to do, which is awesome. Yes, and this year, like that is something that I will try and work towards. That I'm not quite there yet, but you know, other than that, 2024 has been fine so far.
Speaker 1:All of the little pots and plates that I have spinning are spinning, which is good, and kind of some of them starting to rotate a little bit faster, which is nice. We'll see where it goes. Still a lot of questions to be answered, but we'll see They'll come.
Speaker 3:I feel like, more than anything, what you just said, that kind of I think it's quicksand, that's what I, when I hear it, I think a quick stand, and that comes from one of my favorite films of all time, the Replacements, starring Keanu Reeves, of course.
Speaker 1:Gene Hackett, of course.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's such a good movie, absolutely.
Speaker 3:In that movie. They were talking about fear. What are some fears of yours? And everyone was like I'm scared of spiders and this and that. But then Shane Falco was like quicksand, I'm scared of you know, one thing going bad, then another, then another, next thing, you know, you feel like you're drowning and that was why the efficiency seemed so important for this next year.
Speaker 3:I feel like I've done so many projects. I've done so many things. Last year was such a dope year. At four big shows that I produced, I performed almost every weekend. I felt like over over 40 weekends.
Speaker 3:I did a wedding and I was in a different city, on a, in a different state, somewhere else doing something. I traveled to Japan. I got to see so many things. I never thought I would be able to see them from St Louis. I always tell people in my head I'm a kid that lived at Cherokee, ninianda, right off of Jefferson in St Louis Benning Park. That's my life. I never imagined I would leave that corner. And when I got off the plane in Japan, I still remember being like man. If you would tell the kid who learned about Japan in the first grade hey, you're going to go there someday with your wife, I was like, dude, that's crazy, you tripping. I wanted to, but it was like I've never believed I would be able to.
Speaker 3:And last year I did that and with that incredible stuff, I still found myself beating myself up for not doing stuff, getting stuff done. And I'm the same way as you what you said is so true where I want to make sure that I at least put 100% towards what I really want to do. And you get to this place where you see the world going by. Your passion becomes this habit for some reason, where you have to work, doing something else or you have to do this, and then you get married and you have your duties as a husband, and then you have family and you have friends and you have all this stuff going on, but the thing that you want to do so bad seems like it's getting pushed down more and more. And last year I found myself finding ways to fight for what I truly enjoy, for my passions, for my career. And, like I said, I don't want to forget that. I don't want to push that away. I don't want to be like last year I did it wrong. It's like, no, I want to learn from last year and this year. I already have a better plan for the year than I did in the past, and that's including music. You know, doing an album. I want to produce my own album this year. I want to continue to do the podcast. This is a goal until September.
Speaker 3:I want to interview people that I didn't believe I would be able to interview. You know one of my passion ideas. I don't think this will ever happen, but it's one of my ideas for this show. I would love to interview one of my ex-girlfriends. That sounds crazy, I know. I know it sounds crazy, but it would be a dope conversation in my opinion.
Speaker 3:One, the idea that you know we're not children anymore. You could be in a place where you can have a conversation with someone from your past and be mature enough to get through it. Hopefully, that's the ultimate goal with it. And two, when you talk to those people who know you so well. You know I forget what I was just watching the other day, but it was maybe a reel on Instagram or something that was talking about how you date this person. They're your best friend, they know everything about you. You break up and it's like almost like you just have to put that information in a file cabinet and just forget about it, and it's like that would be dope to reopen one of those file cabinets and be like yo you good, I'm loving what you're doing. I hope you're doing well. Tell me about your journey, tell me about things that you've done, how you've grown. That would be a fun opportunity. That talking to my grandpa again will be fun.
Speaker 3:I just really loved knocking off that history and all of that's going to come with a lot of persistence and a lot of me really focusing on the goals. And last year I wouldn't have been able to do the stuff that I wanted to do because it wasn't. I wasn't focused. Let's put that out, take that out. I am very focused on the goals. I am constantly writing and putting information into my notes to work on. It's just when you look at the results from social media, when you look at the people around you working and doing what you're doing and succeeding, you feel almost some pressure or rush to continue to do this. Or you see they're using this new app. I need to learn this new app. Or, oh my God, we got a new social media that takes pictures and they're like I forget what it's a last time lapse or something like that, where you're taking these little snapshots and it's like, how do you use this? How can this benefit my career? It's like I'm just letting that shit go, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because, like you said, you'll just sit there and you will be surrounded by all this shit and then you're like fuck, it's been four months and I haven't started this video, or I haven't started this script, or I haven't wrote that song, or I haven't done this poem, or I haven't done anything, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in the real estate world they call that analysis paralysis of like you're analyzing the deal and it's got to be the perfect deal and so you're not writing an offer and therefore you're never going to even start, and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think it applies to the artistic world, and I was having a conversation with my friend the other day. We went and grabbed lunch because I have this idea for, you know, a feature movie that I think could be shot in St Louis and would be very fun to do and could be shot with St Louis talent and things like that, and I wanted to talk to him about it and I was like you know, I've had this idea for a long time. I haven't gotten started on it because I don't know what the end goal is Like. Could it actually get made? Is it a play? Like what is it and what could we do with it? And he was really encouraging and basically his perspective was it doesn't matter, just start and things will come. But the point is to just start and I think, personally, for me, I get locked down and I know I'm locked down and I need to see the full picture in my head before I start moving towards something.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think that prevents me a lot from not starting anything, and that's the wrong way to approach life. And so I, you know, talk about things we're working on in 2024. I think that's one thing for me. I'm just, I'm just going to do it and I'm just going to start, I'm just going to outline and then I'm going to start, you know, writing 20 minutes in the morning, just do it, just put words on paper and then see what happens. You get stuck in your own head for lack of a better time.
Speaker 1:And you can't get out of it and I roll down into that quicksand and you need Keanu Reeves to reach out and pull you out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what a great movie. I read two books last year that kind of touched on that effortless master's tree, which I really enjoyed that book and then Rick Rubin's book, where two books I read and he had a moment where he's like everyone works different, so don't follow other people's thing. If you feel like you got to do it a certain way, do it the way you do it. But the ultimate goal, like you said, is to make sure to do it. And he had this one thing where he was saying he feels like artists avoid the spiritual supernatural moment in between writing. You know the idea that they'll start writing something and then at the end be like I don't know where that came from, I don't know how that happened, it just happened. And he's like if you don't do it, if you just don't stay in the habit and you don't push yourself out there, you can't allow that supernatural to do its work, because it's always there to help you. You're an artist. It doesn't matter what's going on. You put the pen in the paper. Eventually it's going to come out the way you want it to and you're going to look up and be like what was that? And that's kind of one of the things I did last year.
Speaker 3:Last year I started off the year saying I want to write 100 songs because I want to work the muscle. Now it's kind of the thing I got from those two books work the muscle. Kind of putting in your brain that creating is what you want to do. And just start creating by the end of the year into this year. It's like I don't have to sit down and say, hey, I want to sit down and write a song. Now it's like, oh, I got an idea because I've been writing so much consistently, pushing it out good or bad.
Speaker 3:In the Master Street book it was talking about the idea have you ever sat down and wrote a bad song? I was like I didn't try to make it bad. The idea with this practice in this book was to truly sit down and say I'm going to write a song that's bad. I am purposefully going to sit down and write a song that's bad. It's just adding to that consistent act of doing the art, because eventually you get to a point where you're like I'm going to make a bad song and then you're writing. You're like wait a minute, this is actually kind of good.
Speaker 3:That's the same situation. It's just a matter of doing it consistently, pushing yourself into the direction that you want to go. I agree with you. I understand it's one of those weird things that I'm very fortunate I've been talking to Adrian. It's just refreshing for me. But I understand that it's out of nowhere. It's just a matter of I got to a place where I actually said I wanted to work on this and it's been working. It brings me to you.
Speaker 3:There's this quote from a song actually on the Wale album, the album about nothing. Jerry Seinfeld was on that album with him and he was talking about marriage. Wale, famously, one of his songs was like he's like, 30 years old, never been to a wedding. He just doesn't like the idea, the energy of all that. He's trying to keep away from it. He just has doubts. He doesn't believe anybody could be planned or ready for wedding or this, and that he's asking Jerry Seinfeld about this and Jerry, in his very Jerry, no, like, very Jerry Seinfeld about it, he's like do you feel like, even if you plan like you're ready? And he's like I mean you can't plan for growth.
Speaker 3:That's his thing. He's saying marriage, you become a new person in its growth. It's different. You're going to be a different person after that and I've seen a lot of people speak on this subject recently for some reason and I'm curious on your behalf because, like you said, your performer, your wife's a performer You're in a world where you don't have someone in your household who's looking at you like why are you doing this? No, you're looking at someone else who's also inspired, who's also pushing himself to move forward in the industry. How do you feel being married has affected your work ethic or your content creations, like has it changed anything for you?
Speaker 1:That's a really good question. I mean, in general, being married for me doesn't feel any different than you know when Abby and I were just living together, because we were together for eight years beforehand, and being married is rather just a continuation of that. It's cool to be able to see things like my wife, but from that standpoint it's the same.
Speaker 2:I think in terms of how I approach creating things.
Speaker 1:I am very, very grateful for Abby because she is very different from me in the way that she approaches her art. She has an unbelievable faith in herself and in the fact that what she wants will come to her eventually, as long as she keeps moving forward. And I am so inspired by her and her ability to just move forward, doing what she wants, how she wants to do it, and you know basically where she wants to do it, because I'm not that way. I often think about like what's the point of this? Where's this going to be, how's it going to live? Like what's the strategy of getting people to watch it? And blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 1:And so I run into all these walls and I get down on myself and I go up and down. It's a very roller coaster ride for me and she has to weather that storm and her approach is always like do what you love and what you love will come back to you, and I am really trying to hold on to that and kind of take that to heart and it's wonderful to watch her live that example. Just like everybody else who does what we do, you know she's got disappointments and things like that and struggles and she works through it. But that energy and faith that she has in herself and the universe is one of the most beautiful things and one of the things that I love most about her and one of the things that inspires me the most about her. And in terms of like, how does that move into the day to day? I don't know. I think the biggest question right now for us is where do we want to live?
Speaker 1:She's been taking online classes at the Groundlings in LA from St Louis.
Speaker 1:We live in St Louis now and she's to the point now where she needs to be in person at the Groundlings classes and it's going well. She's progressed through the levels and made it through, and so now the question is, like, she's talking about going out there for six or eight weeks or whatever it is. And then, you know, my question to her is you know, do you want to be in Los Angeles? Because you're to this point now where, let's say, you go out there for eight weeks and you do this class and it goes really well, and they want you to do the next one. Well, you're going to have to be in Los Angeles again. Yeah, and it's just kind of like, if that's what you want to do, then you know that's kind of where we need to be and that's okay. Like I'm here to support you on that and I'm happy to do that, but it's just kind of a question of is that where we want to be? I think you know during the pandemic.
Speaker 1:We were blessed with all these cities being like you know what, everybody went home. It's cool you can audition for many where and we'll bring you in we get it.
Speaker 1:But now we're to the point now where these major cities are kind of like eh, you need to be here, we don't want you out of town or is anymore, and it's just kind of like. Kind of like what it was beforehand. So now the question is what spot do you want to be in and do you want to make that transition again? That's the biggest thing that I think we are questioning right now and is kind of like the internal struggle, and we've just been kind of waiting for like a sign. And I finally said to her the other day I was like I think we just need to make a choice and commit.
Speaker 3:I feel like, since I know your wife and I know how talented she is, I've always felt like anyone with her got to kind of be ready to move at any point, Because I think Abby is one of the most talented performers I've ever met. Easily and someone's going to hit her up like yeah, we need you to come work in New York or we need you to come work here, and she like it makes sense that that would totally be something because, like you said, I remember her moving to Chicago. I don't even think she had an apartment yet, she just was like yo, I'm moving to Chicago. Abby is one of those people who I mean she believes in herself because she has the goods, she's really good at what she does and she puts the work in. And to also be a creator and a content maker and to be with someone like that, I'm sure that's just like you said, it's a thrill to be able to see someone like that, because it should inspire you as well or at least scare you enough to do stuff it scares me.
Speaker 1:It leaves me to have the scariest side of things. I'm like oh, you're getting my act together.
Speaker 3:I want to thank you for listening and I want to thank Michael for being on the pod. This week has been a lot of fun for me. Michael is one of those guys that whenever we speak, we leave the conversation with more to talk about. We have a lot in common and it's so cool how the universe brings people together through friendships. Michael's wife, abby and I went to college together and we've worked together on multiple shows in Chicago and Los Angeles. I try my best to keep in touch with my people. Michael has fit into the crew perfectly. Nothing but love for those two. How do you feel you're dealing with St Louis now? I feel like every time I talk to you, I ask you this question just because I know my hometown and I love my hometown, but I know how difficult it can be for people, especially if they're not from there. How do you feel you're molding into St Louis?
Speaker 1:I have nothing but good things to say about St Louis and I've been trying to work, so just a little bit of background. Abby and I grew up in Knoxville, tennessee. Abby grew up in St Louis. We met in Chicago. I was there for 10 years. Then we moved to LA. That's where I met you.
Speaker 3:Right down.
Speaker 1:In 2018, and we were in LA until the pandemic hit and lost both our sources of income. Out there. We kind of ride it out as long as we could go and then we came back to St Louis which is where Abby's family is from to kind of like weather, the rest of the storm, and then we got engaged and then we got married and it's been four years now. I never expected to be in St Louis. It was never a place that I thought I would be. I had always visited it on holidays and things like that and enjoyed it, but it was mostly family stuff Living here.
Speaker 1:The things that I love about St Louis are the city itself feels like a small little Chicago. It annoys me that you still have to have a car to navigate the city. That frustrates me. I love the pockets of St Louis, the neighborhood pockets. It's insanely annoying that you can't get from pocket to pocket in an easy fashion. I love that there is a bunch of nature everywhere, especially within like two hours of St Louis. You can be in mountains that feel somewhat similar to the Appalachians, which is pretty amazing.
Speaker 1:And St Louis has been very welcoming to me in terms of the friends that I have met. There's an improv theater here that I performed at for the first year, which was great, and then I discovered rock climbing and now have that core group of friends who has been really opening to me. And so St Louis has loved me and I am trying, and have been trying, to figure out why I don't feel that same connection and I think that for me, as I've tried to wrestle with this, I think it stems from I don't like being in the suburbs, and we are in the suburbs and I would like to be in a city, and I think that might change my perspective, but I don't know. I'm constantly looking for all these like external validation, and I know that's wrong and I need to focus inward and figure out what it is about me. So I still don't have a good answer for you, dom.
Speaker 3:And like-.
Speaker 1:None is good and I but I have nothing but love for St Louis, because it's had nothing but love for me. I just am trying to find my footing here and I just can't seem to find it, and I don't know why that is. I feel like it's taken longer than any other major move that I've made in my life, and I'm not sure why.
Speaker 3:And see you saying that suburb thing. I totally understand that and just to knock it out of your brain, moving to the city isn't gonna help that, because there's part of the city that feels like the suburbs. That's the one of the craziest things about St Louis. You could live in the city and feel like you live in the suburbs, unless you live downtown near Bush Stadium and you're in one of the lofts down there. You're not gonna really feel like you live in a city. If you live on the South side, off tip awhile, you're gonna feel like you're in the suburbs and you're gonna be in the city then. So I get that. It's just one of those things.
Speaker 1:I mean, I don't need to live downtown but I do wanna be able to like walk from my house or apartment or whatever to a restaurant. Yeah, and you know what I mean. Like put me in Tower Grove South and I'll walk to Grand and go to those places that I want that feel.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And whereas, like where we are, like I have to get in a car, no matter where I go.
Speaker 3:No, I understand.
Speaker 1:You just have to get in a car because there's nothing close.
Speaker 3:And that it breaks my heart too. I lived off of Grand and Shenandoah at Tower Grove for a year and, like you said, I was able to walk right over there on South Grand to Rooster and all those restaurants my favorite Chinese food restaurant across the street. I got to really interact with these places. I worked at the Fox. If I truly wanted to just walk and not ride the bus, it was only like a mile and a half walk. It wasn't that far away of a walk.
Speaker 3:So I get that Everything you're saying makes total sense.
Speaker 3:It is really interesting and the worst part about it is like for me as someone from St Louis, having grandparents and family from St Louis. You hear the glory days of when the Tralee system was one of the best Tralee systems in the country and back then the Tralee would go as far as Baldwin, from what I believe. Maybe not that far, but it for sure came out to the suburbs, it came out to Kirkwood, it came out to Webster Grove at least. And the idea that they destroyed that and the reason why now you have to drive a car is because of the reason why they destroyed those Tralee systems they wanted to make sure the cars in interstate were used, and I feel like this past week I've been having this discussion more and more about how America has put itself in some of the weirdest situations globally and homebound, and we're just gonna stay here right now. I'm not gonna jump on anything globally right now because there's so much going on but that's one of those things where they were like you know what we're gonna do?
Speaker 3:this American made and all of these cars are made here in America. We're gonna build this interstate and that's gonna be the way it is. And they destroyed people's lives, destroyed homes to create all of these highways. And now we look at everybody and we're like the highways are too stuffed, they're not big enough, it wasn't efficient in the first place. And what you're saying is so true. When you get a taste of living in the city or metropolitan, where they actually have a good train system or bus system, something, it just it makes life a lot easier. I get it Everything you say and I get, and I'm not gonna pressure anymore. I just, like I said, it's one of those things that I'm always curious about. My friends who moved back home or who's never lived in St Louis, who's go to St Louis and they struggle. Now you know J Boogie, stephanie Peterson's husband. He kind of has those same quarrels. He really loved living in New York and they go from New York to St Louis. I get it, I know it is not the same.
Speaker 1:I know I, you know you add to it as well, like try making friends in your 30s. It's just hard, yeah, it's just hard. But, all of that being said, I have made some great friends and they've been very welcoming to me and I love them for it. It's just I continue to search for that answer and it just hasn't revealed itself to me. But I've done some amazing things.
Speaker 1:A lot of the stuff that I'm working on now has been spawned from St Louis and Missouri and the people that I've met and the connections that I've made and I'm moving in this direction now with the things that I'm creating and doing. That is pretty awesome and I never would have thought it would have been possible, and it's all because of my time living here in St Louis and in Missouri and I recognize that. And so that's that struggle that I have of like, what's the internal struggle with me, based on all these blessings that are coming into my life from having been in the city and with the people who are in my life, around me, so that so I've seen you've been doing these dope reels and I saw the one that you did with the Dogwood Trail.
Speaker 3:I think it was Mark Twain's steak park, I believe. Right, you got this great camera views and you're on the trail, you're hiking, you're going through it. Tell me about that and creating those reels. Are you doing those by yourself? And also, like you said, you've jumped into the hiking lifestyle in Missouri and you're seeing all of these incredible parks. Just talk about how that's affected you and putting together those reels and your purpose for doing all that.
Speaker 1:So I grew up in Knoxville, tennessee, which is in the Smoky Mountains. They were in my backyard and so I was always hiking as a kid. My mom loves the mountains, still loves the mountains and then I moved to Chicago and it's flat and I didn't have a car and I lived in the city and when we were in LA, one of the things that I really loved about Los Angeles is once I was there for about a year I started unlocking all of the stuff that's just around Los Angeles. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:What you're saying. I totally understand that you could go to the beach, you could be in the mountains, you could drive to the desert. You could be anywhere within an hour.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's kind of amazing. I always called it. Once you unlock California, then the whole state just opens up to you and you're just like, oh my god, everything is here. It's incredible. So I started hiking a bunch in LA and then when we moved back to St Louis, I just kept doing that. I was like I'm just gonna go hike. It was still the pandemic. Not a lot of stuff was open. It was something I could do outside by myself and so I went and, luckily, if you go south from St Louis down 55, for about an hour and a half, you end up in Mark Twain National Forest and there's just a ton of state parks down there. And I think the one that really opened my eyes to all the beauty that Missouri has was Han State Park, specifically the Whispering Pines Trail, and I hiked that and I was like this is amazing. I had no clue that this was in Missouri and I had in LA.
Speaker 1:I just started filming my hikes. There's a YouTuber named Craig Adams Craig with a K, and he goes all over the world and makes these amazing relaxing hiking videos and I was like man, I wanna be that guy. If I could do that, that would be awesome. And so I was like, all right, well, I'll just start. And so I just started filming my hikes with my phone and a tiny little tripod I mean I'm talking like a foot tall Film that I would upload them to my YouTube channel.
Speaker 1:You know, when I started going around Missouri, I started doing the same thing and it's just me and my phone and I set it up, I walked past it and then I turn around and I come back and pick it up and they cut out everything but the good part, just kind of put it together and started putting it up on YouTube. And then I just started doing a blog post about it as well, to kind of coincide with it, and would post that to my website. I was like, all right, if I'm gonna make videos that'll keep me going outside, if I have this schedule, then I will start doing this once a week. And I did, and I just started exploring all of these state parks that Missouri has. And then last year around February I got an email from a publisher at Falcon Guides, which is a hiking guidebook they do guidebooks for states all over and he was like, hey, we're looking to do a hiking Missouri guidebook.
Speaker 1:Are you interested in writing it, yo and I was like uh yeah, and like terrified yeah, and so that really then kicked it even more in a year, like okay, now I have to hike 40 hikes all over the state and do all this additional work in terms of, like you know directions and how to get there and blah, blah, blah and like all this fun stuff on top of writing like 500 words per hike, and so that then even more so kind of encouraged me to explore more of the state. So I'm going to Kansas City and I'm stuff south of Columbia, branson and all that like everything.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Mark. Clean State Park is one of the few places north of 64, like in the northern half of Missouri, but it's a beautiful park and I never would have gone there had this book opportunity not come up. And so now I've kind of up my game a little bit, like now I have a better camera and I'm trying to learn that and do more of that. But it all kind of funnels through my YouTube channel, so I try and post like roughly like a seven to 10 minute video about the hikes and it's just me kind of showing what this hike is talking about it. And then I go back and I do a bunch of research on it and then create a blog post with more information and things like that and then got this one big video and then I'll take clips from that big video and use them as like Instagram reels and YouTube shorts and things like that.
Speaker 3:Man. It's so bizarre how these conversations do this sometimes, because we just spoke about your incredible wife, abby, and one of her big things is do what you love and it'll come back to you. And then you tell me about one of the big things you're working on now and that strictly came from you enjoying the outside, filming yourself just doing it, because you know I love doing this. I'm just going to do it and boom, an opportunity comes in. It's like that's kind of stressful, but this is really cool. That's what it's all about, and I truly believe in that energy. When you put that energy into the universe, when you speak it into existence, when you say this is what I enjoy, I love this. Those opportunities tend to happen because people will notice it and that's so dope.
Speaker 3:I, especially being a kid from Missouri, I feel like, like you said, north of 64 or 70 has not been explored. I had a girlfriend who went to college in Truman and Truman and I never went up there to visit her, and so I don't really know much about northern Missouri at all. I know central Missouri. It's both flat.
Speaker 1:I know, yeah, there's not a lot up there, it's flat.
Speaker 3:It's not. I bet it's a lot of farms. But with that being said, with the camping and the hiking, I didn't start hiking until I went to LA as well. When you're home in St Louis, you got to be in the right crew to get to understand that part of the state and I don't think I would have appreciated it as a kid either. I feel like as a kid I'd be like ugh, it's just Missouri. You know, I would have been like this is stupid. But then to go other places, like we high care Georgia, go to California, we did all of the, we did a lot of national parks on the way to Georgia to get to see that stuff and then come home, realize just how green Missouri is, you realize just how different every aspect of the environment can be when you're in different parts of the state.
Speaker 3:When I lived in Chicago, like you said I'll never forget my cousin from Chicago came to St Louis for the first time and they were riding my bike for like three, four hours one day up and down the same hill. It wasn't like they were taking it on a long day, Literally were riding down the hill, walking the bike back up the hill, riding it down the hill for like four hours for real and later that night we were talking. They were like you know, like it's just the greatest thing ever. I've never been able to ride a bike down a hill before and I'm like, what are you talking about? Like you can ride your bike in Chicago. She was like no, you don't, it's flat, it's flat. There are no hills in Chicago and those little things I wouldn't appreciate. But then someone else comes and shows me you're lucky and, Like I said, looking in that video, it made me want to go in that hike that you put from Mark Twain.
Speaker 3:It was a really pretty Hike and that's the one thing I rave about Georgia. I rave about how green and pretty it is and this and that. But I grew up around that and it just was something I didn't appreciate because I was from it. You know, I think it's dope, I think it's really cool. I love. I'm looking forward to seeing the more the newer ones with the higher quality and the Information that you put in, and I would love to see that that trail book when you get that together, because that sounds like yeah, yeah, yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1:I got nine more to go. So close, close, I'm so close. We're in a nine that you're doing two that are basically straight south of st Louis, almost to the Arkansas border, and then I'm gonna do like a trip to Branson and knock out three around Branson and then Three more around KC.
Speaker 3:So what is it? Yeah?
Speaker 1:six, seven, eight, maybe eight more.
Speaker 3:Okay, eight more when you speak about Branson and whatever you write, it's a touchy subject for people from Missouri. Just so you know Older people from Missouri, my great-grandmother. I always remember this. She would, always. She traveled the country. Wherever the greyhound would take her, she would go. She was always seeing the Grand Canyon, these incredible places. But when I ask her, whenever I ask her, where is your favorite place to go visit? It was always Branson, always, never failed. She went to Washington DC, chicago, all these places a million times. Branson, missouri, is my favorite place to visit in the country. So when you speak on it, just be conscious of that.
Speaker 3:There are some people who love Branson so much. If you find yourself being like it's kind of run downtown, but don't say that.
Speaker 1:I've actually never been in. I've driven past it a lot, yeah, but I've never been to it. But I know it feels like it's gonna be a lot like pigeon forage, tennessee. Now, I could be wrong, I don't know, I haven't been there, been in my brain. I'm like, oh, this is pigeon forage. They've got a bunch of live shows, yeah, you get to go to. They got a big holiday stuff. There's probably a theme park around there.
Speaker 3:Yep Silver Valley City. Yeah so I'm in my brain, I'm like yeah, it's gonna be like pigeon forage, I get it but we'll see.
Speaker 1:But thank you.
Speaker 2:I'm just gonna give a rundown of all the boys I've been in love with. So there was there. My last boyfriend turned out to be a girl. Yeah, apparently I kissed a girl and I liked it. He said his name was Joel, but it was Jolene Jolene, jolene, jolene, so. But then there was Betty. He was cool. He was the kind of a Leely. Rose is by the stairs. Surprise is something that we cares.
Speaker 2:We didn't care that much because I caught him and another girl and I was like, hey, hey, what's going on? So we broke up. But I really loved him and so I was not gonna store. A week later and I was like I hate to show up out of the blue uninvited, but I, I couldn't stay away. I couldn't stay away and I couldn't see my face and that you'd be reminded that for me it isn't over. And that didn't work. He was just like, hey, you're crazy bitch. Oh, him, and I got in this back-and-forth argument cuz he'd always call me baby. He'd be like baby, no, I need you, I need you baby, baby, I'm a suponent, I'm a suponent, I'll give you a name to bring the morning. So we just fought all the time. So we are never, ever, ever Getting back together. And all these guys want to break up with me. I'm just like, and I'm like, why don't you stay just a little bit? And so, yeah, right now I'm.
Speaker 3:This is my girl, abby, performing in the first show that I did in Chicago was called what is love, and, and Abby got to do her scene and it put together a couple of things with me and she did a little stand-up and I just really wanted to showcase her. So you kind of see the bridge between me and Michael, with us both being associated With this incredibly talented artist who I admire so much. So I hope you enjoyed Abby, and of course, you can check out my music on all streaming platforms and you can check me out for more information at down. The more calm where you can get anything and everything down the more. Living in LA, you were one of the few people that whenever I started talking to vinyls, your ears will pop up and you go why don't say I got my vinyls too, and LA, truly, I think I had a big push Before I moved to Chicago, in St Louis, where I got a lot of the vinyls for my grandmother and that was kind of where it stayed.
Speaker 3:For a while I was just with those few Records. I was still exploring those. I thought they were really cool. Then I got the LA and then I was like you know what now. Now I'm gonna really start collecting vinyls, really start putting the work in, really start putting together a cool Collection. I wanted my collection to be diverse. I wanted to be able to be in any room and no matter who I'm talking to, including you. If you're like, oh, I just got this vinyl, no big deal, I'll be like, well, I got this bottle. Like you want to be able to show off how cool your vinyls are that you have. I really enjoyed some of those nights that we would come over and I'll bring like a red Fox album or this and that and you would be.
Speaker 3:Oh that's so cool. Look at this album and we'll be going through the different things. Just talk to me about why you're Also a kind of sore of the vinyl and in what Drove you towards it.
Speaker 1:I think the best thing about vinyl records is that you can't skip songs.
Speaker 1:Yeah you drop that needle and then that record spins until it stops and flip it over and you do it again and so it forces you to Listen to a whole album. Yeah, and I think as a kid that grew up in the 90s Like just did like the tail end of tapes, like I remember getting my first tape, but really CDs were the thing, and like the ability to skip Tracks on a CD was just too easy, and so as a kid I would find myself Just playing my favorite songs on Whatever CD I bought, and so you'd like buy the CD for like three songs and you'd listen to those three songs over and over again.
Speaker 1:At least I did and Then you get to the iPod and now you only have songs to choose from yeah not listen to like anything long and so, like, when there were surgeons of Vinyl records happened, I think, for me, what really drove me to it is it forced me to listen to the whole thing, which is awesome, yeah, and I love that and it's something that I just didn't do as a kid, and it's a little embarrassing to like say that of. Like, you know, I love music and I love all types of music, but when I was growing up, I really loved my song and I played my song over and over again and that's nothing embarrassing about that, because that was the way it was.
Speaker 3:You know, we were making mix tapes for girls and stuff back there, like that's the world we grew up in. So like I mean, we grew up in the time where we discovered something that I'm sure our parents would have died for. They had to play those single Vinyls to play that one song over and over, and over and over again. They had to find that single vinyl to play it over and over again. We just pushed a button.
Speaker 3:I know we pushed a button and if I'm in the car now, I don't even listen to the radio anymore, because I can listen to what I want to listen to now. Yeah, it's a whole different luxury, so don't feel bad about that. I mean, like I said, man, if, like I forget, there's a joke where a guy was like talking about how You're mad at these kids, but they literally have boobs and butts in their pocket right now, they can look at whatever they want on their phone. Now how can you be upset about these kids when they have this power that any of us would have died to have? There's nothing to be ashamed about.
Speaker 3:But yeah your discovery of being able to listen to the album, being able to sit down and be like you know what. I don't have a choice now. I'm gonna have to enjoy or appreciate what's on, no matter what song it is. That is really a Dope way to look at it for me. I enjoy the crack, like everybody else's. They all just love the crack of the vinyl and you're like that's very Annoying way of saying why they love it. But for me like my mother bought me about six vinyls for Christmas this year and we just listened to one yesterday while we were doing less, eating dinner and, like I said, it's a mood setter. There's nothing you could put on music on your phone. You can. You can place music on your TV now. You can you just listen to Apple music, whatever. But to turn on the lights, mood lighting, candles, whatever you want, and just go over to. I have this Bluetooth Gramophone, that's how it's attached to my record player, so you turn the gramophone on and you just drop the needle. There's nothing like that. Now, that's the most unique way to To experience music. And I'm listening to we were listening to Sammy Davis juniors live greatest hits album. So all of the tunes were greatest hit songs, but it was live Performances of those tunes from different shows. Yeah, and it was just phenomenal. It's just so cool To hear like you know who can I turn to? What kind of fool am I and be like I've never heard this version of this song? Yeah, I've heard so many. Youtube is giving me the opportunity to explore his whole career in three days. I could listen to every video and song that he sang on YouTube in three days.
Speaker 3:But specifically, some of these vinyls were created just for vinyl. There's no other place you can find the tracks that you get on these vinyls. When you get these specialized vinyls, you really are capturing a moment in time and it's in that time that you're getting to discover it and live it. And the only time you'll get to do it again is when you play that record again, and there's nothing cooler than that to me. I just I've been the guy to this day where, if I hear a new song, arlo Parks is a great artist in England.
Speaker 3:I heard her album, I heard one of her songs, I heard one of her songs and so I listened to the song and I was like that's a great song. I need to, I need to hear this album and so I went and just listened to the full album all the way through, because that's the kind of person I am. So, like you said, records really add to that. I don't know that thing that's in my head. That's like I need to hear the fool or I need to get the full experience. I don't feel like one song gives you the full experience of what the artist was truly talking about on that album now. But, that being said, there are albums now the Drake album. Drake didn't want album. I think more life. I forget what album it was, where he called it a playlist. He didn't call it an album, it was a playlist. And I think about them like there's so many artists now who just make playlist albums that I wouldn't enjoy listening to the record, and I don't. But when you go just back a little bit or there's still artists like Greg reporter, and Leon Bridges is a great example, his latest album that's a great listen all the way through.
Speaker 3:You know, and I don't know, I'm a big history buff too. I, like I said, I got John F Kennedy's speeches. You know that's something that my grandmother had in her collection. Motown put out Martin Luther King's. I have a Dream speech and I'm searching up and down for that original print. I want the original print of that speech for Christmas.
Speaker 3:This year Got what people call the first concept album In the we Smile hours of the morning by Frank Schumacher, where the whole album is this really lullaby sad love album, where he's really just every song is in the same vein, every song just flows right into each other. And it's this experience and they didn't have that before that album. So while I'm listening to it, I'm like imagine living in a world where you just hear people putting out singles, you hear people putting out greatest hit albums, because after Johnny Mathis put out his greatest hits album, everyone was like, oh, I want to cash in on that. So they started just putting in cash all these greatest hits albums. And imagine one day you go to the record store to pick up your record of the week and Frank Sinatra just dropped in the wee small hours of the morning and you listen to it and you're like, wait a minute, like he's telling a story throughout this entire album.
Speaker 3:And that's the first time you listen to an album where that happens, where someone truly tries to capture one theme throughout the entire album and you just broke up with your boyfriend or you just went through a horrible experience, and this is the album that you pick up and you get to really put this album on in every moment where you're like I need someone that understands. And that's the album you can play now, because you're the whole album focused on this one theme. That's the stuff that gets me. I just love that history. I love that story. I love while I'm listening to it and the friends talking to me about what album is this? I love being able to give that background, because you don't get that anymore.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You don't get that anymore.
Speaker 1:I agree. I think the heyday of albums are like the 70s right, we're going to give you this whole complete concept of an idea and music and it just got bigger and bigger. I think film in the 70s kind of reflected that of like you had these three hour long epic dramas that weren't musicals from like the golden age of Hollywood. It's like no, we're going to sit with these characters in their lives for three hours and like everything was bigger and longer and you really get to immerse yourself in that. And then from that point it got shorter and shorter, and shorter, and shorter and shorter and shorter up until you know. Now, like you know, you're getting like 10 second clips or whatever. But I've started to notice at least in film we're starting to get longer movies now Like no, it's coming back.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oppenheimer, three hours long. Killers of the flower moon. Three hours long, like you're getting.
Speaker 3:I can't wait to watch that when I'm really looking forward to it. It's coming out on Apple TV on the 12th.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I was like I can't. I would have said I'm literally going to make some popcorn and I would have legit sit down and watch that one because I wasn't able to go see it in theaters.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm interested and I'm curious to know your thoughts if, like, if that will start to filter into music as well. I think you know, to be honest, like the last major album was probably Taylor Swift 1989. Before that was probably Beyonce's lemonade. You know what I mean. But like these, yeah, these are just fully conceptualized pieces of work.
Speaker 3:Well, all right, let me. Let me throw one in there, actually the one that I thought of when you said the latest album album, I thought a silk sonic.
Speaker 1:I got that right back here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, that's the one that I'm like. That was a full themed album, that front to back. You play it and it felt like one of those albums from seventies, but it's great. What you said I I don't know. What you said was very strong in the sense of do you think it's going to translate into the music with the films are doing right now and I think, a guardian to the galaxy, volume three, where the whole gimmick of that out, that is, he uses music to tell the story and but he's using hits, classics, and I don't feel like that would work with newer music.
Speaker 3:That movie doesn't work unless you have earth, wind and fire reasons playing in the middle of a fight scene. It doesn't work. Without that you could, you could do newer music, but it doesn't hit the same way. And newer albums you have artists who are truly putting in some great work. Now, like John Legend put out an album I always listen to it front to back because he still goes by that. But the thing is, even in a John Legend album his newer ones, you could see the singles are really the ones that he's focusing on and he's not. He's pushing those out and they don't even feel like they fit on the albums. So most of these I mean you know Olivia Rodrigo and you know Pitbull, you know all of these big time superstar pop stars. Now TikTok is the world right now. You know those 42nd clips is the world. And putting together a song that's two minutes four seconds that you can release on SoundCloud or you can release on TikTok through a real and a dance challenge and all this stuff, that's what's making people shit ton of money right now and the industry isn't going to translate over to. If Lady Gaga decides, you know what, I'm bringing real albums back next year, she's going to put out that real album and it's going to be great and it's going to sell millions. And then Adele will put out a real album and it will sell millions. But they're going to sell millions because they're established, well known, big time powerhouses already.
Speaker 3:A random person like me putting out an album and I'm like I'm bringing albums back, no one's going to give a fuck unless there is a full music video experience that's attached to it, with reels that pop off different challenges for people to be able to see it for a second and it captures them and they're like. I want to experience that over and over and over again. That's how it works now. That's how it works and it won't change until someone else comes and makes more money.
Speaker 3:And I don't think a full LP, 16 tracks with a theme and four minute long songs I don't think that's going to be something that people will that are pushing $100 million marketing campaigns into these albums. I don't think that's going to be the album that's going to generate more money. I think it's going to be the, the too many long song, the, the one minute freestyle in between, another two minute freestyle that you could post on Instagram, you could post on TikTok, you could post on YouTube shorts and you can create this one minute thing that people want to keep clicking over and over and over again. That's the thing that will continue to make money.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're right, and it's frustrating and I I think there's got to be a breaking point. But you just said something that was really interesting to me and it sparked an idea. So we have the era's tour in theaters, which was such an experience. Everybody loved it and it's cool and I'm really. I think it's really awesome what Taylor Swift did and that was, you know, essentially a greatest hits album concert. But you just talked about, like writing an album, 16 track LP. But what if you did that and accompanied it with a film? Like what if it was just the soundtrack to a film? I think Tommy's the who. I think they tried to make Tommy into or the who's Tommy. They tried to make that into a film back in the day. I'm sure it was crazy. I haven't seen it, but I imagine it was the walkers.
Speaker 3:Also, Hard Day's Night is another the Beatles album.
Speaker 1:Hard Day's Night was another, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and then Lemonade. Lemonade is the newest version of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's interesting to see like if, instead of a music video, what if you just wrote a story like a feature, but it was just not a documentary? Like write a story and then just have an album be the underscoring of it all or the soundtrack to it all?
Speaker 3:That's Purple Rain. That's what that movie is.
Speaker 1:Purple Rain. Yeah, man, that's exactly what it is.
Speaker 3:He wrote a story about himself, and the music throughout the story is the album and it was the most successful soundtrack ever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm curious if that would come back.
Speaker 3:I'm sure it. Just you got to have that type of a budget you know, saying like you got to be able to really do a full production. And maybe I don't know, maybe you know because during the pandemic, bo Durham did his special. That was highly successful, highly popular and it was very much music based and it had different concept videos with each song and that's maybe the modern way of doing it. He didn't film that on anything but it's iPhone, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I watched it. It was great. Yeah, I think that will be the defining piece of art that came out of the pandemic. That encapsulates what that moment was like, which is bonkers, that we live through that shit. Like it's crazy when you think back on it of, like, what were we doing for two years? We're going crazy.
Speaker 3:All right. I mean, I always feel like I have to emphasize this. It was a horrible time for a lot of people. People lost family members, people lost loved ones. That was hard, I will fully admit that. But for me I've never had a problem. You know, entertaining myself, and in the pandemic my wife literally moved into the house with me. March of that year literally March the first day we moved in together. We went to a wedding on March the ninth in St Louis, got back March 12th. By the time we got back the whole city was shut down. You know what I'm saying. So our experience living together started the month that the pandemic started. So I got to meet this new person. I got to move cross country with her. We proposed to her Like that was some of the best time of my life and it was literally focused me, wife Tom, because before that, living in LA, that last year oh my God, 2019 was literally I work all night, adrian works all day.
Speaker 3:We see each other before we go to sleep and when we wake up and that was it, and it was constant that that that Mondays was my day off, that was our date night. That was the only day we got together and then the pandemic hit and I'm like I get to really meet this person, I really get to explore a life with this person, I get to see what type of person they are to live with and we just we love to live with each other. I was doing bartending lessons every Friday, so my best friend, chris would Face Tommy and I would teach him for new cocktails and we would drink so much, we would eat so much I mean some of the best meals I ever did. It was just an incredible time. But, like you said, the fact that we lived through a time where I literally was off work almost a full year and I got to explore a hike, I got to see new parts of the country.
Speaker 3:I went to Bryce Canyon, grand Canyon. I went to Yo 70 that year for the first time. I lived in LA for five years up to there but I hadn't gone to Yosemite yet. I got to go to the Senoia's. I got to explore Mesa Verde. I got to see so much of the country, so many things. You know it really was. It was really an incredible time to live through.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, we've made it to that point did, and, as you clearly can see, I could talk to you all night. This is really this is the type of stuff I love to talk about and I love talking to you. I love the way you think, I love the, the way that you approach life, and I've always appreciated your relationship with Abby, she being one of my favorite people in the world. You're such a great guy. She needed someone like you me, knowing the people she worked with in the past, you are truly the best type of person for her and I'm just so happy that you two are together and you're able to Compliment each other and I appreciate you for that.
Speaker 3:I'm not sure how many people told you hey, I appreciate you from being with one of my friends, but I appreciate you because you're you're a great guy and you've always been welcoming and wonderful from day one, and I appreciate that. With all of that said, made it to any any conversation. Talk about everything we want to talk about. The last thing I have to ask how do you feel?
Speaker 1:I feel good. I really enjoyed this. I mean, I've been listening for a long time and I feel honored to be on. I also knew you're. You were gonna ask me that st Louis question and I wish I had a better answer for you, but I'll find it. It'll come. I don't know, maybe I just need to accept. I don't know, man. I don't know what my fucking problem is, but I feel good about this. I'm grateful for you and everything that you do for this podcast, man. I've listened to a lot of people that I know and people that I don't know, and I'm.
Speaker 1:I just want to give some love to all the people who have been on in the past For kind of paving the way for people like me to come on and feel good about it and also just love you man, because you Are great, met a lot of abby's college friends but I feel like you and I have had the chance to be Be close and our friendship, and I'm very appreciative of that. So thank you for all of this. Cheers.
Speaker 3:Eva.
Speaker 1:Cheers.
Speaker 3:I want to thank you for listening to the black man talking emotions podcast. The open and quote credit goes to robert m mpersig and shout out to michael for being on the pod. You can follow my at mshep j o r d a in the number nine On instagram. Please subscribe to the podcast, share the podcast and give us a good rating five stars, please, and thank you. You can support the show by clicking the link at the bottom of the episode description. Also, tell me your stories about these subjects at doml underscore am O u r on instagram or at downlorn more calm. I'm down lamoor. Much love.