Dr. Glenn & Phyllis Hill: From 25 Years of Pain to Passion: Secrets to Emotional Intimacy

Dr. Glenn and Phyllis Hill spent the first 30 years of their marriage dealing with major conflicts, especially when it came to their sex life, which inspired his reason to become a Marriage and family Therapist and a Clinical Sexologist. In this vulnerable conversation, Phyllis and Glenn reveal their journey from a disastrous wedding night to having the best sex of their lives in their 60s. They share hard-won insights like the 19-second rule to end triggers, why reassurance can damage relationships, and their innovative Core Emotion Wheel technique. 

After 45 years together, Glenn and Phyllis are living proof that emotional intimacy only gets better with time. Join them to discover the secrets that can get your relationship out of blame and into love.

IN THIS EPISODE, YOU’LL HEAR:

• The one question to ask that instantly diffuses fights and triggers 
• Why their therapeutic work failed and how they developed a new emotional framework
• Why children connect better than adults and how to reactivate your natural wiring
• The Secret Code to Access Your Partner's Nervous System (and how it can bring you closer in seconds)
• Learn the Core Emotion Wheel: A Simple Roadmap to Your Partner's Heart

EPISODE LINKS

• Free Gift - Video Tutorial & Download the Core Emotion Wheel. 
• Course  - Use Code: SRI20 for 20% off their Foundations Masterclass
• The Connection Codes Podcast
• Phyliss & Dr. Hill’s Website 
• SxR Episode #50 - Overcoming Triggers in Intimacy

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Transcript

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Introducing Dr. Glenn and Phyllis Hill

Dr. Willow 1:15

I'm Dr. Willow Brown, your Taoist expert at Sex Reimagined.

Leah 1:20

And I'm Leah and guess who I am? Your tantra expert here at SXR.

Dr. Willow 1:26

We love to bridge together Taoism and Tantra because they are two sides of the same coin when it comes to sacred sexuality. But today we interviewed two incredible people, a married couple who they've been married for 45 years. Y'all. I mean, that just doesn't happen that much these days but Dr. Glenn and Phyllis Hill. And they spent the first 30 years of their marriage in a lot of pain, a lot of conflict and really bad sex life. And now they are in their sixties. They are having the best intimacy of their life, the best sex of their life. And they have a method for you that will get you out of trigger fest with your partner and into connection. It's called the connection codes and you're going to hear all about it in this episode.

Leah 2:09

And I have to say, like, they needed this intervention so desperately in their relationship. It took them 25 years of unhappiness starting with their freaking wedding night. You're going to hear all about it and it's going to be so easy to apply what they're teaching to your own life. So you know what to do, baby.

Dr. Willow 2:29

Tune in, turn on, and fall in love with Dr. Glenn and Phyllis Hill.

Interview with Dr. Glenn and Phyllis Hill

SxR Announcer 2:35

Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is shame free and pleasure forward. Let's get into the show.

Dr. Willow 2:44

All right. We are here with a Dr. Glenn and Phyllis Hill. And we're so excited to learn about this incredible thing that you guys offer the world, the connection codes and how you've helped thousands of couples come back to love and your own personal journey with this work. I'm so curious about that. So welcome both of you. We're so happy to have you.

Phyllis 3:07

Wow. Thank, thank you. Well, thank you guys. And you know, we've really always loved diving into the content that y'all put out there before we are guests and that has been really incredible for us just to see just the ways that y'all explore as far as people connecting and just the topic of marriage and how we are searching to be able to be more connected.

A Terrible Start to Happily Ever After

Phyllis 3:32

And of course our story, we thought we had it all. You know, on paper we sure looked good when we went into marriage and we thought that alone would give us kind of a free pass and that we would have a great beginning and that it was just like the opposite. And it took us so many years. To undo the damage that we did really right away. And just that pain and that disconnection that happened. And I think we, and we suffered in silence a lot at the beginning because we were so kind of shocked, didn't know who to talk to. And it, it just didn't make sense to us. Cause we thought we had done all the right steps and it prepared so well and had so many things going for us that it just didn't make any sense. And I, you know, Glenn is the researcher, always has been, reads like books like crazy.

Dr. Willow 4:25

Reads all the research papers. Like that's what he does instead of watching Netflix at night.

Phyllis 4:29

exactly where I'm into my novels, right? And

Dr. Willow 4:33

That's like me and Leah.

Leah 4:34

Yeah.

Phyllis 4:38

the novel girl and you're

Leah 4:39

yeah. Boy, watch out.

Dr. Willow 4:42

Smutty, smutty novels. She's a smut

Phyllis 4:44

there you go. So, you know, I just, Glenn was always searching for the answers and to figure out. It just didn't make any sense. And, you know, people often ask us like, why did y'all not give up? Like it just, and for us it was like, well, that didn't seem like the answer either. And we had children right, you know, early, right away. And so it was like, man, you know, kind of the, the idea of separating and then doing the single parent thing for us, that just. It's like, that can't be the way that this has to play out. So there's got to be better answers.

Dr. Glenn 5:16

Yeah. And the problem is that 24 hours before our wedding, we were excited about having a after just like every wedding I've ever been to. I've never been to a wedding where the vows are, you know, we'll be madly in love for six months, maybe two years. And then we'll dissipate it into some level of blahness. I've never heard those wedding vows. So everybody thinks that they are, you know, that they found the one, you know, it's going to be amazing love of a lifetime. And we were wrecked immediately. Our wedding night was a disaster. Mostly thanks to me, not on purpose. I just didn't know I was completely uneducated, unknowledgeable. And that set us up only for about a quarter of a century.

Leah 5:52

Oh yeah.

Dr. Glenn 5:54

Thank you, Leah, for laughing.

Dr. Willow 5:56

Not too long. Not too much. Many couples go much, much longer than that. So, now how long were you guys together before you got married?

Dr. Glenn 6:04

Four years.

Dr. Willow 6:05

Four years. Okay, now did that get, those four years, did those give you some insight to what was to come when, in those first couple years of marriage?

Phyllis 6:13

Probably not because we were long distance a good bit of that time and just really, yeah, not, yeah, I think clueless is probably.

Dr. Glenn 6:24

Yeah. And I just couldn't believe that 48 hours after our wedding, we were just lost from each other at that point, did not know that, oh, this is going to be for two, two or three decades. Why we didn't know, cause it's been pretty overwhelming. So I was just completely perplexed and befuddled and bewildered. It's like, wait, this cannot be, I adore this person. She adores me. We want to be together. How in the heck can we lose each other, miss each other? and actually Phil, a little less than a quarter of a century, Phyllis said to me, I was a contractor then a builder, and she said, Babe, as hard as you work, we should be rich, and we're not rich. So, we have to do something different. And she made me quit working and go back to school. And that was a big level up as far as, you know, finding what's happening. Initially, just with us. We didn't care about anybody else. We're just like, what is happening with us? And now we realize that this is the connection coach are based on the human condition. This is true for every human on the planet, cross cultural, cross language. And we've been thrilled and stunned by that. But again, initially we were just like, we have to figure something out here. This everything that we tried wasn't working. And then we'd go to marriage seminars, I'd read a book and there'd be a little something. But we never really figured out, you know, you know, what was the cause of the disconnect.

Phyllis 7:41

Well, and for us, I mean, our story, which is, you know, out there for sure. We've been pretty public about it is that we thought the only issue was sex for us. And so we worked really hard on making that really great. And then we realized, but there's still something missing. There's not an emotional connection. There's, there was such a mess with that.

The Infamous Dishwasher Story

Phyllis 8:05

And, we probably a major event in our lives, which at the time we didn't know it was going to be so major is what we call the dishwasher story. And at this point, how long have we been married?

Dr. Glenn 8:17

At least 20 years. And if we would have known that we were going to be doing what we do now. We would have written all these

Phyllis 8:22

things on the calendars, like, okay, the dishwasher story here. It was August the third. Yeah, that was a big day. But we would have these interactions where, and this is one of those, you know, I came into the kitchen preparing for dinner thinking I needed to unload the dishwasher. I open it, well, it was already empty. So Glenn comes into the kitchen and I said, Hey babe, thanks for unloading the dishwasher. And his response was, well, it's not like the only thing I've done today, which was typical. I would respond. Yeah. That was a typical response. And I would either roll my eyes. Or I would just go, Oh, good grief. Or sometimes I would say, you know, you could just say you're welcome. But that was our pattern. Like that played out over and over for us. And that particular day I decided, or I became curious and my curiosity led me to say, what do you hear me say when I say thank you for unloading the dishwasher?

Leah 9:22

Mm.

Dr. Glenn 9:22

to realize that this has happened thousands of times, very, very similar interactions. And what we had missed was that Phyllis is one of the most productive people on the planet. She's perpetual motion, and I'm not. I'm fun to have around, but I do struggle getting things done. So when she would say, thanks for learning the dishwasher, or whatever it was, whatever task it was, I thought she was making fun of me. I thought that she was going, Oh my gosh, it's a miracle, Glenn did

Dr. Willow 9:48

saying it sarcastically, like, thanks a lot. Uhhuh.

Dr. Glenn 9:51

I knew how much I struggled getting tasks done. And again, this has nothing to do with Phyllis. This didn't even exist in Phyllis's universe, but that's what I experienced with her and she slowed down and she goes, what happens for you there? What do you hear me say? And I told her, and that's something we'll talk about in a minute called the, Ooh, she owed me for the first time in our relationship. And she went, Oh, no wonder you respond the way you respond. Cause I just insulted you. I just made fun of you. I just demeaned you. Of course, you're not going to say you're welcome. I mean, when somebody insults you profusely and you go, you're welcome, that doesn't make any sense. And she had completely missed that. And I had missed it. I had no idea. I mean, because my experience was real. I knew that she was making fun of me. I knew that she was doing this just to be a jerk, which again, not true at all. It had nothing to do with Phyllis as a matter of what was happening inside of Glenn. But that was a huge benchmark in our relationship. Big, big turning point.

Dr. Willow 10:52

It really points to how our insecurities are sort of how we see the world seeing us, you know? Like I just had one come up recently where it was like, I'm not being seen, you know, it's like, I'm totally being seen. That's my own insecurity, you know? So, and then I could color the world with that lens if I wanted to. Or take a breath and change my perspective. So that curiosity that you dropped into, I mean, that's the name of the game right there.

Phyllis 11:20

Yeah. Yeah.

Leah 11:21

How did that inflection point, right, the dishwasher story, that being an inflection point, how did that change how you responded to each other from that day forward? I imagine that was such an aha moment that things shifted.

Phyllis 11:37

Yeah. They really did. And for me it was like, I saw him in a different light and it made so much sense. It was like two decades of missing each other. All of a sudden was so clear. Like, Oh. You know, I am genuinely thanking him for helping, you know, with something. Yeah. Yeah. And I never, like, even in sharing the story with you guys, you know, he says I'm the most what do you call me? Like I get so much stuff done. Yeah. We're the most productive people. Yeah. And of course. And I don't view myself that way.

Dr. Glenn 12:14

They're not productive Olympics if there were, she would get a medal.

Dr. Willow 12:17

She's a gold medalist.

Leah 12:18

Right.

Phyllis 12:19

No. You know, like I didn't view myself that way. I was just doing whatever I needed to do. You know, I was just doing the thing that was in front of me. So he viewed me as like the giant, the Olympic star of production. And I'm just going, well, you got to feed the kids and then you got to do the dishes or it's gets gross. Like I didn't view it as in this is a really big deal. Where for him, things are more challenging. Tasks are more challenging. And so. I thought that for all the years we were fighting over logistics, like logistical things. And in that moment I realized it's not about the logistics. It's about what's happening for that person. Like what's happening for Glenn when I say thank you, it's as though I stabbed him with a ice pick and it's so painful for him when I say that because of his own internals. And so after that moment, first of all, it was a super bonding moment because that in previous had always turned into either a fight or at least silence for a while. And yeah, and so in that moment because of my curiosity and then his response and I saw it, like I, I didn't try to logistic him out of it. I didn't try to explain to him that's ridiculous that he hears that or experiences that. I just sat with him in it. Like I heard him, I moved towards him physically. Like I touched him. I. I was hearing his words genuinely. And so then after that moment, whenever we had interactions that for me didn't make sense in my brain, I would go, okay, just get curious, ask him what's happening for him. Then I began to hear the way he experienced life, which was super different than the way I experienced life. And it changed for us so radically because my response to him was in a sense, I will just hear you. I'm not going to try to talk you out of what you're experiencing. I just am going to make space and hear you.

Dr. Glenn 14:38

Yeah. Which the trick is, and from a completely good intention, great heart, Phyllis had been trying to out logistically for me for years. You know, I would say, you know, it's not like I was the first thing I've done today. She'd be like, I didn't say it was. well, I don't know why you have to make such a big deal out of it. You don't need to act like it's amazing. You know, like some big, big accomplishment. What? I didn't say any of that. I said, thanks for unloading the dishwasher. And what she was experiencing and what I was experiencing in the exact same setting were two very, very different things. And we had no idea about that for many, many years. It was kind of out of exasperation that Phyllis even tried. Because she had rolled her eyes and walked out of the room many, many times. We're just like, this is ridiculous. It's so absurd. I say, thanks for allowing the dishwasher and we're off to the races. How is that possible? I said a few words, I think it's six words, a positive, and now we're at war for three hours. It's

Leah 15:32

soincongruent with where you both know your heart is. And I think this must have been so healing. This must have really been so healing. To be able to see each other, see more of each other.

Phyllis 15:44

Well, it began a completely different journey because the curiosity worked in that setting. And so then the next time we had an interaction that I, you know, I thought I would get a very simple response. I, and if I didn't from him, I would then go, what's, what do you hear me say? Or I would go, what's happening for you right now. And then to hear what was happening for him was. Just always a, it was like a bridge. I was able to walk across that bridge and join him instead of being on the other side of the river with no way to get over to where he was. And so this led to a lot of healing and the emotional side of it changed our connection. Which of course, again, I'd already mentioned that, we always thought that our biggest issue

The Best Sex Requires an Emotional Connection

Phyllis 16:37

was sex. And then we realized how we're really missing each other emotionally in a big way. Which led glenn down a very different road research wise. And really got him super curious about the emotion side of us and of humans in general, which is, you know, even though his doctorate is in sexology, so sex has always been a big research point. It's like, it's not just about that. There's got to be really good emotional connection to have the best dynamic sexual connection. And so that is, you know, the, the research and even the connection codes and the book that we've written and all those things come from this kind of discovery that so often couples fight over logistics. Like even you hear it, you know.

Leah 17:31

Small little fights that don't make

Phyllis 17:33

I mean, yeah. Comedians make so many jokes about like the tube of tooth. Yeah. Yeah. The tube of toothpaste or...

Dr. Willow 17:40

It's so easy to just get lost in those tit for tat triggers, you know, back and forth becomes a ping pong game and you just go back and forth, back and forth and never really taking that pause. That curiosity is really a pause. Like let's just hang on, let's pull back, get a bigger view of what's going on and then you can change your perspective because there you are having the same experience. But there's as many experiences as there are people, you know, there's, everyone's got their own perspective and everyone's got their own truth. This was a thing in one of my past relationships where it was like, but that's not the truth. I'm like, well, that's not your truth, but it's my truth, you know? So we really have to pull back to see that.

Leah 20:11

I really love to for those people who are familiar with the Gottman work, your story illustrates something really beautiful, which is so many times we have that disruption and we turn away. And what you all did in that moment is you turn towards. And you decided to get closer instead of to get further. And I think that's such a beautiful point in looking at sex. You know, this podcast is called Reimagine. We're reimagining sexuality. And so what does it mean to have the most profound, most connected, most pleasurable, most ecstatic lovemaking? It comes way before you get into the bedroom. It comes way before we take off our clothes. So what was the next breakthrough that started to contribute to these codes?

Dr. Glenn 21:02

Just have to say real quickly, Leah, and you're very kind. This was not a "we" thing. all of the benchmarks have been things that Phyllis has figured out. mean....

Leah 21:10

Way to go Phyllis.

Dr. Glenn 21:12

Yeah, yeah, I always say I'm the educated one. She's the smart one.

Leah 21:16

Right on. That so cute.

Dr. Willow 21:19

Love that.

Dr. Glenn 21:20

But she's the one, literally, and she's the one that actually figures out what works and how to apply, how to implement all of these data points, which really are irrelevant. I mean, it's great. I love researching, but the data points are irrelevant if you don't actually do something with those. And she's amazing at that.

Phyllis 21:36

Well, it is amazing. We're such a good mix, right? Glenn's willing to do all the research. I don't want to read any of it. And in the tools that we've developed that we now teach, it's kind of like, I always go back, "you got to simplify it". That's my word to him. Always. Like, that is too smart. Bring it down to my level. I'm always telling him that, like, bring it down. And I want it to be fast. I don't have time. I don't want to read a bunch. I'm like, give it to me in the abridged version.

Dr. Willow 22:05

Yeah.

Phyllis 22:07

Cliff note girl. And unless it's a really good novel, don't give me cliff notes. I want to read the whole thing. And it comes to, you know, self help, whatever, I want the cliff notes. Give it to me in a, the, the best, easiest way to understand. And I love that about the connection codes is that really that is what we have because we have realized in all the couples that we've worked with that most people want to see results quickly and they want this tools that make such a difference

Dr. Glenn 22:39

And they need to because they are in pain.

Phyllis 22:41

Yes, one of the things we learned during that season for us, Glenn was always the why guy he

Why vs What Happens

Phyllis 22:49

would come at everything about us with a why. Like why did you say that? Why do you think that? And I would just freeze. Like I hated the why question. For one thing, I knew I would always get it wrong. I would not answer correctly. And where for him, he was genuinely trying to understand, it's kind of that research mind. Well, we, through this, we understood and did a lot of research about how humans respond to the question why. It's like we feel an attack when someone says, you know, why and so we've changed that. This is one of our tools is instead of saying why, just say what happens. And it's so interesting to see in that, you know, the difference, like what happens is an invitation. It invites you to slow down and figure out, yeah, what is happening for me? And from the other person, it's an invitation, like I really want to know, I really want to understand what's happening with you. Why seems like an accusation, like you've done something wrong and you need to explain yourself. So that's one of the tools that we teach.

Dr. Glenn 24:01

Yeah, well,

Dr. Willow 24:02

you give us an overview of the connection code? So this is one piece of it, right?

Phyllis 24:07

yeah

Dr. Willow 24:08

Yeah.

Phyllis 24:09

it's tools like that. I would say that if people, it's a guide, it's a, you know, that's how we kind of describe it. It's a guide for how to connect deeply with humans, whether you're married or not married, we're always trying to connect deeply with people. The tools are super practical, just like that one, why versus what happens. To see that change in how people respond to us when we say you know, just take that out. We always tell people to just try it for a month. Take out the word why and put the words what happens into that. Which is such a simple thing. But then you start seeing, wow, people really respond to me differently when I'm not using that word why.

Dr. Glenn 24:52

Yeah. So the connection codes when, when I got my master's in marriage therapy over my private practice. Yeah. I was startled at how ineffective all these things that I had learned were. And I literally spent many, many thousands of hours in school learning this stuff. And then I started researching how effective is marriage therapy. And the vast majority of the population says it's not really. And a tremendous number of people said it's actually detrimental. It's harmful. And of course, it's all over the board as far as people's perspectives. So I just started basically with a blank sheet of paper and I said, okay, I give up. I'm just going to observe and we spent two and a half years just observing interactions and notating. Okay. It doesn't matter who is partnered. Initially I was looking at marriage, but it can be mother, daughter, cousins, coworkers,

Dr. Willow 25:38

Any intimate relationships? Yeah.

Dr. Glenn 25:40

But yeah, well, any interaction. I

Leah 25:42

Because we all wanna be seen and we all wanna be understood. I mean, those are basic biological impulses desires.

Dr. Glenn 25:50

So again, we just start data pointing it, but we have three categories, disconnect, neutral and connect and just noticing and it just became organic. We started noticing, okay, every time Willow asks Leah, Leah, why do you do it like that? Why do you do that? Leah moves away from Willow, either geographically or relationally. And so we just start notating that we didn't start out really with a an agenda as far as the, the language, we just wanted to know, what is working. And then we, for the next two and a half years after that, we started feeding people and I would say in that situation, Hey, Willow, can you just find out what happens for her and we'll go, what do you mean? I'm like, just ask her. Hey, Leah, what happens for you in that situation? And then we started noticing that no one disconnected and we don't say never always with human research but with human behavior, but that's what we noticed. They net, they didn't always connect. So there are plenty of neutrals, but they never disconnected. And so we're like, ding, ding, ding, we have a winner. And so we just went through and started noticing when people disconnect. And I was excited about that. And I remember the day I came home and I said, babe, I think I found it. I think I've found what causes people to disconnect. And again, me, the educated one, she, the smart one, she goes. Well, that's fine. But what causes people to connect? I'm like, I don't know who cares about that. We figured out all the disasters in life. And she's like, well, that's not really our objective. We actually try to help like, you know, help people connect. And then she said, Wait, what if we reverse all of these things that cause disconnect is that what would cause people to connect? And she was right. Always is.

Dr. Willow 27:25

Brilliant

Dr. Glenn 27:26

Oh, okay. We can reverse these disconnects and make them connectors. And that's what's now called the connection codes.

Phyllis 27:33

Let me back up a little further because part of the whole thing too, is that most of us, maybe most is not the right word. Many people don't know how to connect to themselves. They don't know what's happening for themselves. So we, you know, we talk, we say you know, right now, like take Y out and put in what happens. We'll. Yeah. Yeah. Many times people go, I don't know what happens to me. Like for me? Like they don't know the wording. So a lot of the research went into just what's going on in the brain and. I know for me, I, you know, I'm still, I think to this day, I'm in my sixties. I'm like, how did I not learn all of this early in life? Like I didn't know that your brain houses emotion. So I'm just like, no, no, no. I used to very confidently say, oh, I don't do emotion. Glenn has enough emotion for both of us. We're good. And I took a lot of pride in that, like I don't do emotion. I do work, tasks was my thing, which I, you know, I thought I could opt out of emotion. And then when I finally got to a place in life where my body started rejecting my crazy lifestyle, then I had to slow down enough to go, okay, now what? What is emotion and Glenn was doing all this research, which again, you know, my thing to him was, I don't, I'm not going to do the research. I'm not going to read the book. So make it as simple as possible for me at that time. I was running a company and I had too many irons in the fire. Like, I'm like, I'm, I can't slow down and I don't want to read the books that you're reading. And so when he started teaching me about emotion it was life changing. Like to find out my brain houses emotion I am experiencing these core emotions, which, you know, there's a

The Connection Codes > Lonely, Sad, Hurt, Fear, Anger, Fear disgust, Pleasure, and Pain

Phyllis 29:25

lot of talk about emotion out there, but often it is complicated. It's like we have a list of 150 and then to go, wait, there's only five regions of the brain that house emotion. Let's keep it more simple. Like let's talk about the five and don't give me a list of 150. And so that's part of our research and that's part of what we teach now is the five regions, which one of the regions, which is the pain region, we actually break into three. So it's a total of eight because the brain, when it fires in the pain region, it looks very different on a brain scan. And so loneliness looks different than sad and hurt. So those are the three. And, you know, part of it is when you start to learn about emotion and then you can tune into yourself, you learn to tune into yourself in a simple way. There's eight of them. It's like, huh? Okay. What is happening for me in the fear region today? And then I slowed down enough to go, Oh man, felt some fear before we got on the podcast because we couldn't find the link. And so it's like, okay, that was my fear region going. And then to even learn how to process a lot of people say, okay, now you've taught us how to tune in, but what do you do now? Well, process means you say it out loud to yourself, to someone else. Yes. You say those emotions and then you, you actually can feel them leaving your body. You're not

Dr. Willow 30:52

have less charge.

Phyllis 30:55

Yes. Yes. Your nervous system calms down like you're not as dysregulated. And so all of these simple things. is part of Glenn's research. He was using it with his, in his private practice, and then he's bringing it home and sharing it with me. And I kept saying, simplify it, simplify it. You got to get it shorter.

Dr. Glenn 31:14

Yeah. One of the things that and a whole bunch of things we're having at the same time, but what I began observing was that we eventually call it the court case, that these couples, these relationships, these people, interactions, whatever, we're trying to win the court case. So I'm trying to show that actually, and you know, Willow, you mentioned. that proving the truth. And that's what everybody did. And they're trying to find the truth. They're trying to prove the truth value of their perspective. And after observing again, literally thousands of interactions, I'm like, okay, I've never seen that work because even if Willow proves that her point is correct and Leah's is wrong, they still didn't connect.

Dr. Willow 31:55

it doesn't matter, it doesn't make us closer, it might drive us further apart?

Dr. Glenn 32:00

Right. And that's what we started saying is that, okay, congratulations, Dr. Willow. You won the court case. You lost the relationship. Leah doesn't want to be anywhere near you anymore, but you did win the court case. So let's celebrate, you know, pop a cork. We'll have some confetti. It doesn't work. And so there were, I'm again, had begun researching emotion already. And. Thinking, wait a minute. It's emotions that connect humans. It's not logistics. Logistics are not irrelevant. They do exist. They do matter, but that's not what happens in the relationship. So then I began studying emotion like crazy, learning we have five neural regions. That's just the human condition. That's true for everybody on the planet. Hurt, sad, and lonely look so different on the brain scan that we actually divide those two.

Dr. Willow 32:43

interesting. Yeah. Is that in the limbic system or in the

Dr. Glenn 32:48

The limbic system's, the central command center for emotions occur throughout the body, but the limbic system is the central command center. Everything processes through that other than hurt, it can process through the spinal cord, but that's a boring detail.

Dr. Willow 33:01

I can't wait to read your guys's book.

Dr. Glenn 33:04

that's not even mentioned because that's such, you know, academic stuff. cares.

Leah 33:07

Oh, yeah, but we care. we love that stuff. Yeah.

Dr. Willow 33:13

Maybe we'll read your dissertation.

Dr. Glenn 33:16

But I mean, we actually have A fibers and C fibers that conduct pain and hurt fires through the A fibers sad and lonely process for the C fibers. Because hurt is so urgent and if you have your hand on the hot stove, we don't have extra seconds here Whereas if you're lonely and lonely is just as damaging as any of the core emotions. But lonely is not going to kill you in the next two seconds

Leah 33:39

What are the other five?

Dr. Glenn 33:42

So the five regions are anger, fear disgust, pleasure, and pain. We divide discussed in the guilt and shame. We divide pain into hurts had lonely. So we come up with the eight. And again, that part of the power of this is that it's the human condition. It's not a personality profile. It's not a theory, not a philosophy. We finally have been able to narrow it down to the human condition. Therefore, now we know through experience, therefore it applies to every human. It doesn't matter the culture, the language of the connection goes to spread to over 60 nations. Now, not because we're good marketers it's organic and trust me in that. I mean, especially. But people can't help but share it. You know, they experienced this, they see a difference and they share with 10 people in the next two months.

Leah 34:26

Okay. So to kind of recap, my understanding is like, you start to tune in to these simple emotions that when you're in the presence of upset, right, or incongruency or something happens and you're dysregulated whatever that moment is and you can catch it. Then it's bring awareness to one of these eight categories. You tune in and you start to feel it leave. You start to go, okay, this is now being kind of released. Then

Dr. Glenn 34:56

Mhm. Well, to understand to that core emotions are different than secondary tertiary emotions. And we get down to the core emotions because if I walk in the room and I say, Leah, I'm so upset, she doesn't really know what that means. She doesn't mean something and I can explain it to her in the next 3 to 5 sentences. But she doesn't know what upset means. If I walk in the room and I say to Leah, Leah, I'm feeling fear. Every human on the planet knows what fear is. And what the research shows was, if I say that to Leah, it actually tickles the fear region of her brain and it becomes a shared human experience. And we bond through that. And I haven't even told Leah what the fear is about yet, but she's already tuned into me. Whereas if I say I'm upset, I'm overwhelmed, I'm stressed, but you're not wrong. I mean, those are true words, but Leah doesn't know.

Leah 35:44

But we can viserly connect to each other now. And is it because of the mirror neurons? Like when you watch a commercial and you get all teary because they're all teary and it's that empathy thing that gets lined up.

Dr. Glenn 35:55

You've seen a video of someone, you know, it's a horrible thing, but it's one of my favorites. Somebody saying goodbye to somebody on a train and they're running down the platform and

Leah 36:02

oh,

Dr. Glenn 36:02

slam the pole.

Leah 36:04

yes.

Dr. Glenn 36:04

And you feel it in

Leah 36:06

I love that.

Dr. Glenn 36:07

That's not possible. How can you feel it in your body? This isn't your frame. You don't even know who this is. This is a video

Leah 36:14

And it's an

Dr. Glenn 36:14

in a movie.

Leah 36:14

Actor. I mean, it's not even real, but we feel it.

Dr. Glenn 36:17

Your whole body just reacted in pain. Because we are coded for that. That's hardwired. Leah's not trying to be a sweetheart and feel the pain of the other person. She can't help it. She's like, you know, we've shown people just pictures of cuts, you know, on a hand. And literally the pain region of their brain activates. That's not possible. You don't even know whose hand that is. You don't know how they got cut.. It's just a human coding. That's what happens.

Dr. Willow 36:43

yeah. It's fascinating. Okay. So let's, I want to circle back to how do we flip the script, so to speak? Like, how do we go from like this? This was a disconnect to turning it into a connect.

Leah 36:57

Yeah, so I get like we start to feel empathy, right? It's like, okay, I get you. I'm getting some more information of what you're feeling.

Phyllis 37:03

So, well, I want to mention it now cause I don't want us to run out of time, but we want to show, we want to do this for you guys in your audience. We call it the core emotion wheel. And you know, we also talk about a four minute tool to conquer conflict and that it is, it's the core emotion wheel that you do with your partner, with your friend, coworker that tunes you in and it brings the empathy out. It also brings the awareness out and it's a connector when you use these eight core emotion words. And well, of course, Glenn's already mentioned it, but what we have found that's so incredible to us that it works in all different languages, all different nationalities because of the commonness, no matter what language, everyone understands the word fear. Everyone understands the word anger. Yes. And so, you know, there's such a connector there and, you know, you kind of go back to the dishwasher story that we shared, what's happening for you now, you know, in, in knowing and understanding emotion, Glenn would say, well, you say what you would say. When, if I said to you what's happening for you in the dishwasher story,

Dr. Glenn 38:20

And again, a referenced the ew earlier, the ew was just an audible response. We know from research that if I'm audible with her, it tickles the pleasure center of her brain. If I'm silent, it tickles the pain center of her brain, typically loneliness. But anyway, she said that to me today, I just go, wow, that's a new, that's two versions of the I feel some shame whenever you say that. And we call it the three phrases. Phyllis would go, Oh, what's happening with shame? What am I missing? And the third phrase, we don't have time to cover, but third phrase is powerful because she's telling me she's missing it. She's not telling me that I'm an idiot. Cause I haven't explained it better, which doesn't sell for anybody on the planet, whereas she just says, I think I'm missing something and she is missing it because I haven't told her yet. She's not missing it because she's dumb. She's missing it because I haven't told her yet. And she's going to use the three phrases. She's going to go, Oh, babe, what's happening? I think I might be missing something there. And I'm going to go, well, when you say thanks for loading the dishwasher, I just get hit with shame. I feel less

Reassurance May Be Taking Your Relationship In The Wrong Direction!

Dr. Glenn 39:13

than I feel stupid, incompetent, unproductive, not like you, the superstar Olympic you know, gold medalists in productivity. And she's not going to, we call it following the energy. She's not going to resist my energy. She's not going to go, what? No, babe, you've got strength to, you're great. Which the research showed, and that sounds so good. It sounds like, oh my gosh, she's reassuring him, that's so beautiful. It actually makes it worse. The research shows that humans don't experience an emotion for more than 19 seconds, if it's not reactivated and reassuring people reactivates the core emotion.

Dr. Willow 39:48

Interesting.

Leah 39:49

That's so and everybody interesting! Ding! Ding! Everybody Ding get that? Ding, ding. Reassurance could be taking you in the wrong direction.

Dr. Willow 39:58

Yeah.

Phyllis 39:58

So, it's so worth repeating because. We think that the person needs to hear our words of no, that's not true. You're the best, but actually it, it reactivates if they have shared like shame and they've said, yeah, I just feel shame in this moment. If you will make space for 19 seconds to sit in that with them and to be like,

Dr. Willow 40:21

Yeah.

Phyllis 40:22

You know, what happens with the shame? What

Leah 40:24

happens with the shame?

Phyllis 40:25

You're giving them the platform. Like you're saying, I'm going to listen to what your experience is versus the immediate jump in to go, no, you're the best. You're so incredible.

Dr. Willow 40:38

It's like a spiritual bypass to do that or an emotional bypass, you know? And going into the emotion sitting with them in that sort of fire is where they can unravel parts of it that aren't even themselves, probably coming from, you know, upbringing and society and all of that. And then find the morsel that is actually for them and turn it into, I call it medicine, you know, there, there's medicine in there for you.

Dr. Glenn 41:05

Well, again, what the research showed, we did tons of exit interviews where we watch an interaction for five minutes, 10 minutes, whatever. Then we do an exit interview and we say, so when he reassured you and he told you that, you know, you don't need to feel fear about this. You're okay. You're great. You're going to nail it. You're awesome. What happened for you? And we saw a theme develop again, after hundreds of X interviews where people said, I realized that I was wrong to feel fear. And stupid. So he just said to her from a good heart and he didn't use those words. He just said, Leah, I want to let you know you're wrong and you're stupid. How are we doing now? Are we more connected? And Leah's like, and again, I'm, I can talk fast. So I out talked Leah and I conveyed to her, I gave her the very clear message, Leah, you're wrong and you're stupid. Leah walked away going, Oh, okay. I don't think I'm going to talk to Glenn anymore.

Leah 41:59

I'm not safe being vulnerable with this person.

Dr. Glenn 42:02

Yes. Right. Right. And then I walk away going, Hey, Willow, do you see how I nailed it? I mean, I helped Leah so fast.

Leah 42:09

False sense of achievement.

Dr. Glenn 42:11

it's amazing. I fixed the Leah so permanently. she has not experienced that anymore. No, no, no, no, no. She doesn't talk to me.

Leah 42:19

And so that's different from hearing what somebody said and repeating it back to them. So I hear that you don't prescribe to that. Okay.

Dr. Glenn 42:30

that. Cause it doesn't really matter. If I'm feeling shame, I'm feeling shame. I just am. Now we're at the core.

Dr. Willow 42:35

We're just getting more and more curious about that, like where is that from? Where do you feel that in your body? What does it look like? What does it feel like? That kind of stuff.

Phyllis 42:43

Well, and it is incredible to think how we, in human interaction, so often we barely miss each other. Like, you know, I think about the encouragement piece. So many of us were raised to be encouragers, say something kind, say something nice. We, you know, we're so quick to think we need to give advice. Like when a friend shares that, you know, they may use the word depressed, right? And we want to cheer them up. So we, we want to give them a solution. Hey, go for a walk. It will help. And it's not to say that there isn't truth in that, but so often people are missing the key and people aren't asking for advice. They just want to be heard. They want to be seen. Yes. Acknowledge. They want to know that they aren't crazy in a sense. Like to be able to share for Glenn to share with the dishwasher story that he felt shame. And me to not try to talk that out of him, but to make space for it says to him, I see you, I hear you and I'm safe for you. I'm not going to try to fix you. I'm not going to try to give you the the antidote like I'm going to sit with you. And you know, we have found that in human interaction, if someone really wants your advice, they're going to word it in a way that it's like, can you help me, can you help me buy a car? You're really good at cars and I'm trying to buy a car. Otherwise people really aren't asking for advice. We're just quick to give it. And instead of the 19 seconds of, I'm going to sit with you in this for 19 seconds, I'm going to

Dr. Willow 44:22

19 second piece. That's new. That's a good nugget for me because...

Dr. Glenn 44:27

I blew my mind when I first read the research on that

Dr. Willow 44:30

that's fascinating.

Dr. Glenn 44:31

just came out for the first time. So now we're kind of confident of the efficacy of it because it's been replicated. But it's just stunning. I remember the first time I read it, I told fellas that's BS, there's no way shut up. I've watched people and emotions for hours and days and then I started researching the research and I'm like, I'll be dadgum.

Dr. Willow 44:48

it takes that much time for it to shift inside of them, right? And then it might lead, like, the shame might lead to another emotion, which might be fear, which might lead to another emotion, which could be anger. But it's gonna shift every 19 seconds. You can feel it viscerally.

Leah 45:03

Yeah. And you can also tell how it just keeps on re triggering itself and re triggering itself depending on the response that's coming towards you. So if one can just stay present and quiet even. And just allow it to be, you know, have some tolerance for that emotion to process through someone's nervous system. Wow.

Dr. Willow 45:25

hmm.

Phyllis 45:26

Well, what Glen was saying, silence actually communicates a

Responses That Convey Presence, Listening, and Empathy

Phyllis 45:32

in the pain region of the person, which is why we teach that you need to be audible. Audible with what we call the oo, which is simply kind of a title for, you know, you just did it Leah. Yes. Yes.

Leah 45:46

yeah. It's like the nod, I'm with you, we're I'm right, I'm

Dr. Willow 45:51

I'm in this with you. Yeah. Mm hmm.

Dr. Glenn 45:53

Yeah. And you're literally tickling the pleasure center of our brains when you're audible.

Phyllis 45:58

Right. Like we feel connected to you. Like you're getting this. And it is interesting the still face experiment, which was done in the seventies it's part of this whole equation too, which is one of the things we teach in our masterclass and we reference in our book is just that, wow, we often give each other still faces and we don't even realize it. And it is that silence, you know, and it, I mean, in working with couples, you know, often the one will say, well, I just you never hear me. And the other will go, what do you mean? I hear every word you say.

Dr. Glenn 46:32

Well,

Phyllis 46:32

15 times you said, I heard you. And it's like, but if the person doesn't feel heard, that's what matters.

Leah 46:40

Will you tell that to my husband?

Phyllis 46:41

out.

Leah 46:44

Okay, will you call him?

Phyllis 46:48

Yes. I would love to meet him. But you know, there is so much to that, like, okay, if I don't feel heard, that's what matters. And so

Dr. Glenn 46:57

then... It's irrelevant if you were heard, what matters is do you feel

Phyllis 47:00

heard. Right. And then you've got to get, you've got to get under that. And it's like, okay, so for you to feel heard by me, what do I need to do? And often it's that I need you to sit in this with me. I need you to be audible. So don't just stare at me blankly because I can't stand that because I start making up all kinds of stuff in my head when you're just staring at me blankly. But it's, but if you are audible, like, huh. You know, even the question. So what happens with the shame? Like if Glenn said to me, Oh, shame. I would say, Ooh, what's happening with the shame? Because I do want to hear the next sentence. I do want to know what his experience is. And then for me not to fix them, not to try to encourage him, because that also says I'm listening, right? Versus when we jumped to the fixing, the person doesn't feel heard. When we jumped to giving advice and encouragement, the person doesn't feel heard. And so it's.

Dr. Willow 47:55

their

Leah 47:56

what would be the what would be the appropriate response? Would it be something like thank you for sharing that? I can't tell you How much that means to me?

Dr. Glenn 48:04

No, you're so darn smartly your way ahead. We're working our way towards what we call the fourth phrase. The first three friends go together. Oh, what's happening there? What am I missing? Once the emotion is processed again, I'm not talking an hour and a half. I'm talking about literally 20 seconds. Then if so, so babe, what do you need? And because that's the human experience. We're just looking to meet needs. She says, so what do you need to which in that situation? I'd be like. Nothing. I just needed to process through what was happening for me. Because it's, we can't say to Phyllis, Phyllis, you need to anticipate everything Glenn's going to experience, which is what she did. Tried to do for 20 years. It was exhausting. She was always trying to stay 10 feet ahead of me because she knew I was going to be reactionary in the next, who knows what two minutes, and we're going to be at war based on who, again, poor,

Dr. Willow 48:52

It's like walking on eggshells. Anyone ever had a relationship where they felt like they were walking on eggshells.

Leah 48:57

I'm pretty sure I was the person, they were walking on eggshells around.

Dr. Willow 49:03

Or that, yeah.

Dr. Glenn 49:04

If I feel hurt by what she said, I'll tell her. Because she, and again, I don't want her to intentionally hurt me. But she's going to hurt me. And probably today, certainly by today and tomorrow. I will feel wounded at some point by her. And I'll just tell her, I go, I felt some hurt. I did this morning already. I mentioned something we processed through 15 seconds, which is for the record, belows my fricking mind. If you had said to me, 30 years ago that this was possible. I probably would have punched you because I would have thought you're making fun of me. He's like, Hey Glenn, you know, this could take 30 seconds to process. You're gonna be like, shut up. Don't be as smart as it does not take 30 seconds. This takes at least three days.

Dr. Willow 49:45

Yes.

Dr. Glenn 49:46

We're mesmerized by this. This is the reason we're so passionate about the connection codes because we're like, oh my gosh. This morning we literally process through something in 15 seconds and to this day because we did it poorly for so long, we look at each other like it Is

Dr. Willow 50:01

we done? Is that it?

Leah 50:04

Alright, time to make dinner.

Dr. Glenn 50:05

And again that doesn't mean it's an afternoon, but we're just gonna process it through in the moment and it blows our minds.

Dr. Willow 50:12

Cool It's high emotional intelligence. Okay, so how does this high emotional intelligence and this ability to process within seconds triggers that often are coming from childhood when we get down to the root of them? Yeah, go ahead.

Dr. Glenn 50:27

I think you're totally correct, except not really. Because this is actually a lot of our research... eventually, we started researching

Dr. Willow 50:35

Uh huh.

Dr. Glenn 50:36

Children do this perfectly.

Dr. Willow 50:38

go through it quickly, right?

Dr. Glenn 50:39

A 12 month old never struggles being authentic. They're always authentic and they don't do that because they're so dang smart. They do that because they're coded that way. So somewhere along the way, they're going to get reprogrammed. They're never going to get recoded. So we're just trying to get people to reactivate it back to their original coding. Because when Glenn is this 12 month old that had a whole bunch more birthdays, when this 12 month old is able to be authentic and just tell the girl what's happening with him, they will connect. Not because I'm so dang smart, not because I'm emotionally intelligent. It's because I've relaxed into myself. And my fear, and I get it, Dr. Willow, what you're saying. But my fear is that people are like, okay, well, maybe I can get my master's degree and then I'll be able to do this. No, no, no, no, no. I want people to relax into themselves. And if I can get Phyllis just to relax into herself and tell me what's authentic with her, we will connect.

Phyllis 51:31

Well, and I would love to do this for your listeners to go through the core emotional wheel together. This because I think that a lot of times if we don't know how to connect with ourselves, if we don't know what's happening for ourselves, we're not able to communicate it to the other. And so it starts with that. And people often go, Oh, I don't, I do not, I don't know what that feels like in my body. I get that. That was me. Like,

Getting in Touch with What Your Emotions Are & What They Feel Like

Phyllis 52:01

because I had pushed away emotion my whole entire life. So when all of a sudden I, I realized this was my problem, my body was shutting down as we know the body keeps the score. I was like, Oh, wow. Now I have to take a crash course in this. So give me the cliff notes and I've got to have something that I can do quickly on a daily basis to connect with myself so that number one, I am healthy. But I also then want to connect with you and I want to be able to do this. And so that's what we call just the core motion wheel that we've created. And for your listeners, we do have a a way if they go to www.connectioncodes.co/sexreimagined we've put together a page just for you guys where you can get a free download of this core emotion wheel. You can get the instructions on how to use it and a video of us doing it so that you can again.

Leah 53:00

that. I just want to point out that's not com, it's co, C O, and we'll have the link in the show notes.

Dr. Glenn 53:08

Yeah. Yes. Connectioncodes.Com is a computer software or something.

Phyllis 53:13

Don't go there.

Dr. Willow 53:14

Okay, show us the wheel. Show us the wheel.

Phyllis 53:16

you. Okay. Well, so the wheel, the one that we are showing right now is actually created with emojis and kids love this one. So we have different styles, but this is the one that is the most fun as far as emojis go and it just lists the eight emotions. So we're going to do this and bear with us. How about that?

Dr. Glenn 53:39

Yeah. And again, the rules are on, it's very important that people do this according to the rules, because if you use it according to the rules, it's a tool. If you don't, it becomes a weapon. You're going to go first. That'd be great. Let's see. For me this morning, I felt a little bit of hurt just our brief interactions and

Core Emotion Wheel Demo

Dr. Glenn 53:55

it was amazing just how you're able to be present and safe for me. It's so much joy in that. and it makes the pain experience actually a benefit because we're more bonded through it. I feel a lot of fear just in any of these interviews that we convey clearly that people understand what's happening what we're trying to present. Because these are very very charged issues and people can get wounded very very easily. I feel anger about that. There's so much information out there that's just detrimental. You know the group I met with yesterday it just drove me nuts. The stuff that they're presenting these horrible ideas that from a totally good heart they think are great ideas. I feel some shame that i'm not better at marketing and presenting and i'm glad we have a team around us that fill in those gaps, but It's just startling to me how bad I do this stuff. I felt some guilt yesterday. I missed with you. I just wasn't really tuned in to what was happening with you. I got busy, which I don't get busy that often. But I just missed with you. And I guess I get a little bit of shame in that too, because I've been with you for 45 years. You'd think I'd be perfect at it now, but I'm not always. A little bit of sadness. Yeah, I guess sad and lonely both. We just had a wild, crazy night last night, ended up feeling a little bit of loneliness at one point and crazy, crazy joy because it was a spectacular encounter with you. But at one point felt a little bit of loneliness, which I'd already processed with you. Did I do anger yet? I don't remember. I feel anger just about getting this message out. We've got to reach 8 billion people because it's the cure for relational cancer and it blows my mind that this is even doable because we've been on this quest for most of our lives trying to figure this thing out. Wow. A lot of joy in that.

Phyllis 55:50

Thanks. So, for me, fear. Fear earlier because we didn't know how to find the link. We missed on that as far as getting on this podcast. So that was definitely my fear region. Felt shame the other day during that photo shoot because I think I always walk into those thinking, Oh my word, we are spending so much money and is this really gonna create good pictures. So I feel shame in those moments. Guilt. Feel guilt definitely yesterday when I missed with you and wasn't tuned in when you needed me to be. Lonely. Let's see I think some just relationally with some girlfriends right now just feel like we've not been able to connect and that's when I really experienced the loneliness. Hurt. Well, for me right now it's a physical hurt. So my leg has really been bothering me so that's, I'm so aware of that. I think, a lot which I think there's a sad in that all the time. You know, just that awareness that I deal with pain all the time. Definitely sad about that at this point in my life. Let's see, anger. Anger is a hard one for me. So the last time I felt anger, I think it was, I think when we were talking about my mom and just how she never had a voice. I really do feel a lot of anger about that. That she was such a silent woman in her marriage and really affected me. So yeah, anger in that. Did I get them all?

Dr. Glenn 57:42

Did you do Joy?

Phyllis 57:44

No joy. A lot of joy that we're going to get to go to the beach next week. I've already, or is it that many days? We'll be there a week from today. We'll already be on the road to the beach. So it's super excited about that. Already planning went shopping yesterday to get some stuff. A lot of joy.

Dr. Glenn 58:04

Thank you. Let me clarify real quick, just cause I don't know if we made that clear. There's a difference between doing the core emotion wheel and the three phrases. You never, never, never, never, never interrupt during the wheel. The three phrases are used in real time, you know, this afternoon, whenever Phyllis says, I felt hurt by what you said, so we never interrupt.

Leah 58:21

That was really cool.

Dr. Willow 58:23

Yeah, so you just go around the wheel and you just kind of name each one of the emotions and where you're at with them. Now, what if someone's in a deep, deep blow up and fight and they do this? Is this going to bring them closer together?

Phyllis 58:35

Well, so what we call that is an Issue Specific Wheel that in the moment there is something big and to slow each other down and go, Hey, can we do the wheel? And it's always an ask because there's times where one is so elevated and they're so dysregulated that they're just like, I need a minute. But when I calm down, I would like to come back and I would like us to do the wheel over what just happened. And then it's like, you've got these rules, right? As we just demonstrated, we didn't interrupt each other. We didn't ask questions, we didn't reassure, but we were audible. And so, you know, I heard what was happening for him. I heard, you know, the hurt and that involved me and I just made space for that. And the importance that people see. And again, that's why we say, make sure you read the rules and you do this so that it's not a weapon where you're just yelling at each other, you know, through the emotion you aren't doing that. And so, you know, this is what couples are using. We are, we're having incredible success with this, which is so amazing matter of fact, I had a really incredible phone call this morning with a client who they were separated and we were just able to teach them these simple tools and it has changed radically for them. They're back together. Matter of fact, they were sharing with me this morning that they are moving to Hawaii, which is just a huge dream for them. And she said, Phyllis, I never dreamed you guys said this to us, that when you start using these tools and showing up for each other it changes the energy you have to deal with life. She said, I can't believe we are both on the same page. We're back together. We're getting our house ready to sell so we can move to Hawaii. She said, this is blowing our minds, but it's because of the connection codes and the tools that y'all have taught us that we are implementing in our lives that now we can hear each other. We can show up. Like they're still the same people, right? They still see the world differently, but now they have the words where they're not wounding each other with their differences. They're just able to show up for each other in their differences and they're hearing, wow, that's how you experienced that. And you know, Glenn and I are just we're on this journey. We're pilgrims on this journey as well. We use the tools every day and we still see the world so differently. often I'll express, I'll experience joy in something that Glenn is experiencing pain in, in that moment.

Dr. Glenn 1:01:04

Exact same experience, exact same situation, just totally different story. And

Phyllis 1:01:07

yet I can hear him and it doesn't mean that I have to stop. Or like we're not going to do that activity because it creates pain for you or try to convert me to joy. Right? Or try to talk him into it. You need to enjoy this. But you know, he'll go, I want to be with you, so I want to enjoy, I want to go with you into that joy experience, but I'm going to process my pain in the experience. And it's like, yes, I'll hear that.

Dr. Willow 1:01:32

know, it, from a chi perspective, it saves so much chi. Like you just said now this couple has so much energy to be on the same page with each other that they can actually sell their home and move to Hawaii. Like what a dream come true. And we waste so much energy on emotions. It is insane. Yeah.

Dr. Glenn 1:01:53

Yeah. Yeah. And again, not because people are trying to, as we just don't

Dr. Willow 1:01:56

no,

Leah 1:01:57

if you want to know what to do and you want to connect with Dr. Glenn Phyllis, they have a podcast called the connection codes, and you can also book a private session with either one of them and you should enroll in their foundations masterclass for emotional connection and we'll have all their information in the show notes. Thank you so much for being here. And I heard something. I believe it was you, Dr. Glenn, who said, we've been together for 45 years. Okay. Did you get married when you were seven? I mean, whatever.

Dr. Glenn 1:02:37

Yeah. I married her. She was in utero. We're

Phyllis 1:02:38

in our

Leah 1:02:38

Wow. Well, looking good. You too.

Dr. Willow 1:02:41

You guys look great. You're saving some good chi with all this emotional intelligence. I

Phyllis 1:02:47

So true, so true. And I do want to mention, because I love that, Leah, that you just mentioned the masterclass, that we actually have a coupon code for your listeners. If they put in

Coupon Code for the Foundations Masterclass

Phyllis 1:02:55

SRI20, they'll get 20% off of any of the masterclasses

Leah 1:03:01

was S R I 20. Great. Thank you.

Phyllis 1:03:05

Yeah.

Dr. Willow 1:03:05

It's such a pleasure to sit with you guys. We're going to have you back because it's so, so fun.

Phyllis 1:03:10

We would love to, actually, I was thinking about that just a few minutes ago, that to really dive into sexuality and

Dr. Willow 1:03:19

I wanted to touch on that. I had a question, never came through.

Phyllis 1:03:22

Yes. Yes. So please let us book another time to really talk about that too, because I think there for us, we went through so much trauma sexually and so much wounding and to see where we are today and the dynamic sexual relationship we have, it's quite unbelievable, but it's so hopeful and to know we're in our sixties and we have the best sex of our lives.

Leah 1:03:45

Ding,

Phyllis 1:03:46

is

Dr. Willow 1:03:46

We love

Phyllis 1:03:47

Yes. We want to share that with your audience as well. Thank

Dr. Willow 1:03:50

Okay. next

Leah 1:03:52

Love, love, love.

SxR Announcer 1:03:54

Now, our favorite part, the dish.

Dr. Willow 1:03:58

just what an adorable couple and, you know, the

The Dish with Leah & Dr. Willow

Dr. Willow 1:04:02

what they've traversed, like what they've been through and 45 years of marriage. Now they're having the best intimacy, the best sex and, you know, sharing these deep emotional connections on a regular daily basis. You can really see that they walk their talk and and that they have a big message that they want to give to the world. So it's really a blessing.

Leah 1:04:22

I mean, a quarter century of distress.

Dr. Willow 1:04:27

How much time is a quarter century?

Leah 1:04:29

25 years.

Dr. Willow 1:04:30

25 years.

Leah 1:04:32

Yeah, I mean, they've been together for almost 50 fucking years, man. That is

Dr. Willow 1:04:38

That's like only our parents have that. People don't do that these days, do they? I guess my brother and his wife, they got married in their twenties, so they'll be doing that.

Leah 1:04:46

Right. It's definitely more rare.

Dr. Willow 1:04:49

it's rare. Yeah, for sure.

Leah 1:04:51

Yeah.

Dr. Willow 1:04:52

I just love their, the simplicity that they've boiled their methodology down to. I think that that is

Leah 1:05:00

Yeah, everyone needs a Phyllis to like essentialize the shit out of system.

Dr. Willow 1:05:05

Like dumb it down, make it easier.

Leah 1:05:06

Yes, I am like, ah, I struggle with that. I love adjectives. I love describing all the things and all the ways you could understand it all around. And it's just too much.

Dr. Willow 1:05:19

too much for people. They don't have the capacity, right? They don't time. Yeah, or the brain space for it.

Leah 1:05:24

Yeah. I was like, Oh, I'm the emotional one. Oh, I love all the details. Oh, I like all the geeky stuff. And I just love that Phyllis is the is the processor, essentializes the system and executes. I think it's a, they're really cool match.

Dr. Willow 1:05:40

Cute team.

Leah 1:05:41

Yeah, and I loved that 19 second understanding. I

Dr. Willow 1:05:44

Oh, that's a great nugget. I

Leah 1:05:46

Really good to know.

Dr. Willow 1:05:48

I'm constantly doing that work with people where I go into the emotions that are stored in their tissues, whether I'm doing vaginal work on a woman or like heart work on a man or something in between, you know, it's, there's, you go into it. And I didn't know that about the 19 seconds. So that's going to definitely color the way that I work with clients in a new light.

Leah 1:06:10

Yeah, and just like in relating with friends and partners, it's like, just be with them and let, and it'll move if you don't get in the way.

Dr. Willow 1:06:19

very Wu Wei. It's very Daoist actually. It's very like non doing. Like don't do, don't go, just be.

Leah 1:06:27

Just be present or just. hold still or just, you know what I mean? Cause you kind of have this, there's something about the timeframe. That increases the body's capacity to go, Oh, I can sit still, I can be there. And I don't mean sit still as in, you know, when they said the face is still, and, you know, I'm saying just like, you're not interrupting, you're not jumping in, you're giving them only 20 seconds to just feel their feelings. And if you don't get in the way, those feelings will move.

Dr. Willow 1:06:59

They will shift. Yeah, because again, that's all those emotions they're like little people inside of us and like all these little people inside of each one person wants to be seen wants to be witnessed. And to be honest you can do this for yourself you really can I'm gonna do it all the time. You can do it with a journal or you can do it in meditation. You can do it on a walk. You can do it while you're Swimming. Or doing Qigong. Or whatever you do, you know, you can actually do this for yourself and acknowledge like, okay there's this sad part of me, you know, let me sit with it and actually feel it and ask it what does it need? You know, there's this angry part of me. Let me just sit with it. Feel it. Ask it, what does it need?

Leah 1:07:42

just what happens...

Dr. Willow 1:07:43

yeah, what happens?

Leah 1:07:44

When I feel sad, what's happening and like getting to know yourself. And I really liked that Phyllis was bringing this piece around. You have to know yourself. Like this is a piece of inquiry, like being able to know your own, these eight different regions of your brain when you feel sad, lonely, shame, joy, pain, all of these things. What happens to you? Do you have an answer for that? And if you don't, sit with yourself and find out.

Dr. Willow 1:08:10

Yeah, absolutely. So great. So check out their free offerings because you want to learn more about these two and all of the, what they're putting out into the world.

Leah 1:08:20

You know, I will say before we close so I just got done today with finishing the our triggers to intimacy where we talk about the patterns and a episode 50 for those of you want to go check it out. And it was cool to listen to Phyllis describe herself because her pattern types are really coming to the surface, right? And so like the classic rigid pattern type is one that sort of, you know, avoids those emotions. Doesn't know what they're feeling and to hear them both talk about her, about being like, you know, she's the one, she's the taskmaster. She gets shit done. She order, order, order, order. Yeah. And those are, I mean, that is such the light side of rigid. And then also sort of the wounded side of rigid, which is not thinking that they can't connect to their emotions as well. Or judging emotions where they want to deflect and not feel them. And I thought it was really cool to sort of watch that type, that strategy show itself, you know, give us a really clear description for this episode. So if you're curious about that go check out episode 50.

Dr. Willow 1:09:25

Yeah, absolutely.

Leah 1:09:27

All right, y'all have a super yummy, sexy day.

SxR Announcer 1:09:31

Thanks for tuning in. Leah Piper is a tantric sex master coach and a positive psychology facilitator. Dr. Willow Brown is both a Chinese and functional medicine doctor and a Taoist sexology teacher. Don't forget, your comments, likes, subscribes, and suggestions matter. Let's realize this new world together.