Om Rupani 2.0: Masculinity vs. Femininity - The Role of Dominance & Submission in Relationships

Om Rupani, a renowned BDSM & tantra educator and author, sheds light on an intriguing perspective regarding the dynamics between men and women. In his thought-provoking insights, Om explores the notion that both genders are yet to fully grasp their roles in creating a nurturing and balanced relationship. During this heated discussion, you will hear Leah and Willow agree and disagree with what Om is trying to convey when he speaks of men not knowing how to hold a container for women and women not knowing how to care for men’s hearts.  

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS

• Om reveals the role men play in relationships—the concept of 'containment'. Describing how men need to hold a solid emotional and energetic space for women, an aspect often overlooked.
• Om introduces the fundamental elements of 'dominance' and 'submission.' A provocative discourse shedding light on men as natural dominants and women as natural submissives.
• We debate on the cultural biases against men—the statement that many women's visions of men are damaged and they don't genuinely see men led to a lively discussion about assumptions and stereotypes.
• Tips for long-term relationships: how to shift perceptions, drop antagonism, and foster agreement.

EPISODE LINKS *some links below may also be affiliate links

• Om’s 1.0 SxR Episode #12 - The intersection between BDSM & Tantra
• Om’s Book - Prerequisites to Ecstasy 
• Om’s Website - www.omrupani.org 
• Om’s Free Trainings - www.omrupani.com 

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Chapters

• 1:37 Introduction to Om Rupani and His Work
• 3:23 Exploring the Intersection of Tantra and BDSM
• 4:12 Understanding the Complexity of Erotic Makeup
• 6:22 The Journey of Self-Discovery in Sexuality
• 7:23 The Role of Men in Relationships
• 7:56 The Importance of Containment in Relationships
• 9:10 The Challenges Men Face in Embodying Masculinity
• 9:44 The Journey of Men Learning to Provide Containment
• 11:58 The Impact of Ego on Men's Ability to Learn
• 12:42 The Importance of Being Coachable
• 14:12 The Role of Women in Relationships
• 24:28 The Role of Dominance and Submission in Relationships
• 40:45 The Importance of Agreement in Relationships
• 45:31 Understanding Abusive Relationships
• 45:50 The Concept of Dominance and Trust
• 47:32 The Struggle with Pride and Victimhood
• 48:20 The Perception of Men and Women
• 49:10 The Misunderstanding of Competition
• 50:32 The Importance of Trust and Openness
• 52:49 The Misconception of Men's Hearts
• 1:00:44 The Role of Authenticity in Relationships
• 1:02:53 The Importance of Self-Reflection
• 1:05:34 The Dish with Leah & Dr. Willow
• 1:11:11 The Struggle with Trust and Control
• 1:12:31 The Importance of Self-Awareness
• 1:16:02 The Challenge of Letting Go of Control
• 1:16:50 The Importance of Healthy Relationships

Transcript

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 1:38

Om has been teaching workshops in B D S M, Tantra, and Man Woman relating for over 15 years. He has a book, Prerequisites to Ecstasy, and you can find out about his work www.omrupani.org. That's omrupani.Org.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 2:00

Yeah. You know what's cool about this episode is it gets a little hot under the collar, I'll tell you right now. And it really shines a light on where men and women are dropping the ball in having the types of relationships we most desire. And in being seen and in being held in a way that we desperately need, but we haven't had a lot of good modeling for it. So it's like we're more messing up left and right and he just lays it out straight. So, you know what to do. Tune in, turn on, and fall in love with Om Rupani.

Announcer: 2:42

Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is shame free and pleasure forward. Let's get into the show.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 2:51

Om I have to say that your interview from the last time we got to sit down with you was really one of my favorites out of last year. And so I'm tickled to be able to sit here with you again and you've got such a wide and interesting and very clear perspective, I think, in a lot of sexual relational dynamics. And so, we're just going to dig right in. Welcome.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 3:21

Thank you for having me.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 3:22

Yeah, it's such a pleasure to have you again. And you know, with your expertise in the crossover between Tantra and bdsm and how how we can really explore and expand our sexual capacity to such a greater degree. I imagine a lot of people are having to clear some really old latent shame or some shame that's up for them currently. Some.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 3:49

conditioned cultural

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 3:50

conditioned guilt and shame and and also a lot of healing around sexual trauma. So, what are some of the things that you've seen people transcend through their journey with your work?

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 4:05

Big question. You, put in a few really big topics in there, so let me see how I can tease it apart. I think one of the most satisfying things as a teacher, as a coach, And in observing people take this journey is they realize actually the depth and sophistication of their own erotic makeup. I don't think human beings are giving themselves credit for how complex their Eros is,

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 4:36

Hmm.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 4:36

Yeah.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 4:37

oftentimes it is that limited framework that they're approaching and is the cause of their frustration. So the end result of that may be, I don't feel satisfied. I keep feeling there is something more. And they're like, well, what? Where is the answer? Is the answer simply in something that's quick and fixable, like, couple of new positions? Or is it really in a whole other journey? And it turns out it is in a whole other journey. It is in a deeper journey of self. It is in a deeper journey of understanding just how complex we are in our erotic makeup. It is an understanding how much our past experiences, our childhood experiences, the messaging we received from early on is impacting our erotic expression of our relationship decisions decades later. And then the exploration begins, and so many of the pieces start coming out, and sometimes it is emotional release and catharsis of a childhood piece that comes out. And as a result of that, something else opens up in their erotic realm. So it really is like almost giving ourselves credit for how complex we are. Then this is not simply about you know, like some, one, one ingredient that is missing from my sex dish and you as a sex expert, can you tell me, can you hand me the correct spice so I can just fix this? Right now?

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 6:22

All right.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 6:23

I see the richness in the journey, and that's been the case, I think, for my own journey, and that's kind of the richness I see that's unfolding, it is a discovery, it is peeling back of layers that I see that's like the easiest. That's like the overall answer I can give as far as watching people in their journey, including my own.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 6:45

You hit so many like right on spots and I think it's human nature to kind of want to go for an easy, quick fix. You might be feeling less than satisfied, or maybe you're wishing your partner had a stronger libido, they acted more interested in sex. And so you just want that thing that's going to fix it so that you feel more successful. And yeah, what a lot of people are missing is that this is an adventure and it's a journey. And if you study it, God you probably won't get bored. It's pretty damn interesting.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 7:18

I can almost outline a typical process for you, if you like, just to tease this out.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 7:23

That'd be great.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 7:24

And this would be specifically my work is a lot with straight couples, with men and women couples, as you probably know, I work with bdsm, I work with polarities. Oftentimes I have long-term couples wanting to come in and saying, can you help us take our relationship deeper to spark our eros, right? What are the pieces that come up? First of all, I will see there's a lot of, let's not even go through all the pieces. Let's just give a few highlights. One thing I can see right away is the man is doing a crappy job of giving his woman containment

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 8:03

Containment And how would you describe

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 8:06

not being a good yang structure,

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 8:08

he is not holding a solid energetic space for her in a consistent basis. He's not an energy in which she can come and kind of feel held and feel contained in her mental noise. In her anxiety,

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 8:24

Hmm.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 8:25

He is not providing that strength in which her system can calm down. In BDSM terms dynamic, we can say it's the kind of man who can take his woman into subspace, who can put his arms around his woman, who can calm her system down. He does not know how to do this. Give this to her. He has never learned. He doesn't realize this is one of the things he's craving from her, and this does not exist between the two of them. And because of that, a whole slew of problems and anxieties are on the part of the woman.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 8:55

She's having to hold.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 8:56

so now she shows up with her list of complaints. I don't feel he shows up. I don't feel he's strong. I feel he is too weak. I feel I can't trust him. I don't feel he is there.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 9:06

Right.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 9:06

So like that's one problem. Now what is the other problem? The man has severe distorted images of what he's supposed to bring as a

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 9:16

Mm-hmm.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 9:16

man. So he needs work in his masculine embodiment.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 9:19

How does he do that?

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 9:22

That takes work. That's the whole thing. So it's like this is when you start peeling back the layer, the initial complaint might be our eros doesn't work when he puts his arms around me, I just don't feel good.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 9:34

Mm-hmm.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 9:34

I'm like, he's not giving you containment. He doesn't know how to give you containment. It could be further disaster, he's seeking containment from his woman. Complete mess.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 9:44

Yeah.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 9:45

So now I gotta talk to this guy and like tell him, no, this is one of your basic obligations as a man, is to give your woman containment. Nobody's ever told him that. He is still a, he might still be a mama's boy who thinks the way his mother gave him containment is the way his wife is supposed to give him containment, a completely disaster premise in the system. Now how much work does he need to do to pull that out of his system?

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 10:13

So, so there's a clearing process and then there's

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 10:15

a clearing process. So like, this is the process of like digging deeper to say, this is the way the man needs to show up. So the woman goes, oh my God, I can relax into this man. And on the other side of that receiving of that containment, the woman's trust in eros opens to this man, this is what they're looking for.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 10:32

Yeah.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 10:33

So it's a bit of a diagnostic process. So to me, this is all about what makes it work to me. This is not, I'm prescribing you an ideology. I'm like, these are the pieces I feel need to be in place. And then we have to figure out, well, what do we need to do to put these pieces back in place? Because as a culture, we don't seem to have the wisdom of doing this properly from the ground up.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 10:56

It's not being modeled strongly.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 10:57

It'snot being modeled, it's not being taught. Men have no idea what they're supposed to be providing the women so the journey oftentimes is this digging. Like they can't even, they're not even completely articulating what is not working. It's any more than a person who goes to, a doctor, goes in with a diagnosis, all he says is, I got a pain here.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 11:19

Right

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 11:19

And it's kind of up to us, the best we can do

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 11:22

figure out where this that pain actually is.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 11:24

Figure out what works, what doesn't work, and at least go to the usual suspects and see is could this be the problem? And then for them that becomes their journey. For a man to learn, to provide containment to his woman as a single piece is a whole journey. For him to look at his models of masculinity that keep him from doing that is a whole other journey.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 11:47

mm-hmm.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 11:47

Well, and then there's all the insecurities to process and the ego flares that arise that no man likes to be told that he's not being a man.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 11:57

That can be it's, the other ego problem. Men are often very easy to coach in this because their ego is very much on the line. Because if they admit that perhaps they actually don't know how to handle their women's body, their ego will tell them. You may not have known how to handle any women's body during your lifetime.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 12:17

hmm.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 12:18

You may, you may have been a pretty mediocre level all your life. You don't even know it.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 12:21

That could be a pretty big shock to a man's ego later in life. Yeah.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 12:25

It can be a very big shock. I encounter this challenge quite often with men, and quite frankly, the older they are, the higher the challenge is because some part of their brain computes. If I admit that I'm a lousy lover today, it means I've been a lousy lover for 30, 40, 50 years.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 12:39

Did you ever have a point, a turning point with that particular piece yourself, Om?

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 12:43

I personally am blessed to be a complete geek.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 12:48

So you were always a great lover.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 12:50

My personal inclination always has been give me better information. And if I find better information, I am hungry for it.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 13:00

Ah-huh.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 13:01

Show me a better way to do something. My excitement always comes on the end of, oh wow, I can do this better now. So I am like truly a good student. That's why I go to all the teachers. I learn from as many people as possible. I don't even care if a hundred percent of what a teacher says is something I can take away. I'm like, if 30, 40, 50% of what you're saying I can use, here's my money. Tell me what you got.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 13:24

Fuck. If I just get one golden nugget that

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 13:26

that

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 13:26

I can integrate, that's usually a satisfaction.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 13:30

I go to all teachers. I've been in Leah's class and Charles's class and I love to learn. Yeah. So I would think that is a more correct attitude. I love being coachable and I actually think that is the characteristics of the best people out there. The people out there who are running the world, they are actually amazingly coachable. That, They're amazingly coachable. They pay people a lot of, this is something I've learned, even coaching men. The more successful the man, the more money he makes, the more coachable he is. in that. Yeah, Yeah. yeah Like, here's the money, tell me how to be better, if at the end of this hour you have helped me any, that's what I want.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 15:20

Well, that's a really good thing. Just to highlight for those of you who are listening, that if you are getting the call, like you're noticing, the signs are arising in your life, whether it's the outside world letting you know, or some sort of felt sense inside of you, that's like, I got some work to do. To come into the mindset of watching the judgements come in and then switch it to curiosity. See if you can't shift your mindset. Get really curious about what does it look like to be someone who's coachable? How does someone who's good at being coachable respond to confrontation, to suggestions, to ideas, and also to inquiry. Are you willing to actually reveal parts of yourself that are needing to come to the surface even if it doesn't make you look good it might make you feel vulnerable, but man, that's where the transformation is.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 16:15

Yeah, I'd really encourage people, and I think especially men, I think I see this problem more in men than women. Of the ego and not being coachable and feeling, oh I know everything already. And I think that makes us mediocre any field and that mixes mediocre as lovers and in relationships. You're with a partner and in your head and wondering about yourself your, your attention is in the wrong place. Your attention needs to be on your lover in the first place. And those who are not coachable, their attention tends to be on themselves.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 16:48

S So, it's interesting because obviously Willow and I are women and we work with a lot of men who are struggling with some of these things, or we're working with a woman who's really frustrated with these things in her partner, and there is sort of a tight rope, right? One of the things I've had to learn is like, how can I teach this from the feminine so I'm not out masculine, or overpowering the whole process. And I think you, you come from a really strong sense of authority and embodied experience. So what's the reaction of men who are grappling with this at first with you? Do they tend to reject it or do they fall apart? Or do they like go, okay, I'm all in. What's been the,

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 17:42

I think by the time they seek me out, by the time they're ready to pay me money they're coachable.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 17:47

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 17:48

And I think that's simply a self-selection process. I'm sure there are plenty of men who would look at me and say, who is this arrogant idiot? I don't care. What the hell does he know? And they're, that's their prerogative. But I'm lucky enough that I think by the time they show up in my workshops and classrooms and they pay me my money, they're usually coachable. And if they're not I scream the, I insult them in class and said, do you want your money back and get the hell out?

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 18:11

You don't mess around.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 18:13

My, I don't mind killing off a student first day in class.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 18:17

Yeah.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 18:18

I'm like, I will kick you out of my class if you don't shut this down.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 18:21

Ah-huh. Ah-huh.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 18:22

because you are you are draining the energy out of my class. And I don't want that in my field, your wasting my time.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 18:33

Mm-hmm.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 18:34

I don't need your money that bad. If you are not here to be coachable. See the door.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 18:40

So what per, what percentage of the men who come to you are actually struggling with that particular piece around not being able to contain the space for their woman?

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 18:52

All of'em. All of them. It's a pandemic these days.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 18:57

There's no modeling for it.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 18:59

There isn't any modeling for it. If there is, there's a modeling for the opposite of it, that today's men's are mama's boys. They are, they're really in a bad shape. They are expecting to get containment from their women, which is about as anti erotic and anti aphrodisiac as things can be, your woman to hold space for you. Expecting your women to contain your women. Simply it's like, get the hell outta here.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 19:25

There's something about it for, on the women's side too, though, where we have had to, as a collective, as women have had to rise up and find our own inner strength and get this, like, I can do it on my own and I don't need a man. We've swung to the other side of the spectrum, and so there's also an enabling that is going on from the woman's side.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 19:47

There is, I think the biggest work, one of the biggest categories of work I see needed on the feminine side is for their receptivity.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 19:54

Yes,

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 19:55

their receptivity, and for this false pride that I can do fabulous by myself. If you, again, if I had a woman like that, I would also say, there's the door. If you can do fabulous by yourself, you don't need me. Why are you here?

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 20:07

Yeah. Go on. Yeah.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 20:08

I want people in my field who are failing, and in truth, most people out there are failing. But if you can't come in and say, listen, whatever I'm doing isn't working, then I can say, here, try this. Let's start here.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 20:23

I think there's so many distinctions that could be parsed out here. I mean, one, I'm always hesitant to go, it's, it is a either or, I tend to seek the, and I think that there is a place for us to contain each other, but we're so out of balance with the skillset of actual containment by and large. I mean, I certainly as a woman have a nurturing instinct, right? And I love to hold a man and support a man unfolding, and releasing, and being soft and vulnerable. I wouldn't want to do away with that. But that's certainly not the dish I would want to eat every day or be the only thing I get in touch with in the bedroom. Because then you go into caretaker mode and the whole caretaker piece, there's a lot of research that can prove that kills sex drive, like there's no tomorrow. And if you are the type of partner that is making your partner care for you and take care of you and do all this stuff, they're worn out. They don't need another baby or a parent that's elderly.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 21:29

So I will, I'll tell you this. I will qualify what you're saying. Yes. Women are nurturing. Yes, we want that nurturing energy, we want your feminine energy. Truth is you would rather pour that nurturing feminine energy on a man who's strong as a motherfucker.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 21:48

it's true.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 21:49

You don't want to pour it on a weak man. You don't.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 21:53

because then it's an endless give

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 21:55

No you don't. So you are, when you're saying, listen, I don't mind nurturing my man. What you're saying is I want my strong man to be human. I expect him to be human. I expect him to have bad days. I expect him to go through difficulties. And if he does, I'm his woman. I'm

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 22:13

Yeah. I like to be the strong one too. I don't always want'em to.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 22:16

Which is not the same as I've got a bitch ass of a man who is weak, who can't hold

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 22:22

Can't

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 22:23

Life is bulldozing him, he can't hold himself, and now he's coming to mommy to be held. You're like, no, get the fuck outta here. Can we curse on your podcast?

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 22:32

Yeah. We're cursing away

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 22:34

So that energy really doesn't work. And truthfully, even when a man is in breakdown, I'm like, you get maybe one day a year. That's what I tell man. Or you get

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 22:46

You

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 22:46

a special one had a, you had a death in the family. Your father just died, your mother just died. There's a tragedy and you're truly in your chaos and your woman is holding you through that. That can be beautiful. That is genuine support. That is genuine partnership. Certainly on a day-to-day basis, you don't want it because you will devolve into caretaking. We don't want that. And as you know caretaking will be anti-aphrodisiac. Even when you are wholeheartedly supporting your man when, if he's a strong man, but he's still going through a challenge, when you pour that caretaking energy into him in that intervening time, in that time, the eros will die.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 23:31

Yeah.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 23:31

until he picks it up again and becomes your man again you are not going to be squishy and wormy and girly for him. It'll be like, no, I can mother you for a few days. But while you're in that mode, and it can be a beautiful thing, when a man is down that his woman is holding, chances are eros will take the backseat. You will be in a different archetype. Mm-hmm. Our energies are that powerful and non-negotiable. If you go into that caretaking mode, Eros will disappear. And Eros is not number one priority every single day of your life. So it's fine if it goes for a little while. But if it's there on a regular basis, you're not going to be hot for that man.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 24:10

I think there's really a big piece around the sexuality component here is like if you really are able to contain and hold space in life and all of life, but especially inside of sexuality, because that's where a woman gets to really feel her Shakti and feel her essence and feel her receptivity, feel that superpower within her. That can really change a lot as we go to every other sector of life, but there are, there's sub and dom in sort of every dynamic when we're work, when you're working with BDSM and sometimes men like to be sub, correct? Or what is your Yeah. So how does that work?

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 24:53

so this is my short answer to men who say they are sexually submissive and they want dominant women to handle them. I tell those men, save up. Save

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 25:04

your money

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 25:05

Yeah.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 25:06

so you can hire a professional Dom.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 25:08

You're going to have pay for that.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 25:09

Yeah.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 25:11

I'll be as blunt as with you. You're going to have to pay for it. I train professional dominatrices. I create beautiful practitioners who are trained to handle men and take them into their submission. Without exception, every single woman in my program, in my practitioner training herself is a submissive in bedroom.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 25:35

Oh, I was wondering because I've been reading a lot of books.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 25:39

not one of them. Not one of them wants to handle submissive men for the joy of it.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 25:48

Right.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 25:49

one of them personally gets off, they all want

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 25:54

to be held.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 25:55

They want to surrender, they all want to submit. And human life is complicated and there are exceptions, but they truly are exceptions.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 26:03

Okay.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 26:04

They truly are exceptions, So for the most part, even the professional dominatrices they are submissives in the bedroom.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 26:11

mm-hmm.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 26:12

Okay, so they're not going to go into a marriage necessarily with someone

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 26:16

Not unless they're getting, not unless they're getting something else from the marriage and in exchange for it they're essentially, the man's live in dominatrix.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 26:25

Okay.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 26:25

But chances are even in that dynamic, their own eros, the women's own eros is not going to be online.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 26:31

Not getting satisfied.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 26:32

No, she may handle that man. I've seen these contracts. I'm all in favor of people making rich and complex relationship contracts. I have seen men who have 300 million in the bank and they are submissive and they basically have a live in dominatrix. A gorgeous woman who's by their side, essentially their wife.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 26:52

Mm-hmm.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 26:53

But they don't have intercourse and she doesn't get off with them. She handles his system, she enjoys it, she does it well. She gets a lot of other benefits for it, but her eros is when she's getting her own someplace else. And all of that is completely fine. But as far as the archetypes are concerned, as far as the energies are concerned, There isn't a whole bunch of women out there who are like, I love my submissive boy. Where can I find my next submissive boy? And I don't have anything against it, please hear that I don't have any judgment against it. I am simply reporting statistically, I have looked far and wide because I want to study this field. I've, that's why I even talked to professional dominatrices. I'm like, are you women naturally dominant and do you love submiss? They're like, no, we do this for money.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 27:44

Yeah.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 27:45

well, I was I don't know where I saw this online. I was Googling something, was looking at statistics and I think it showed that 60 to 65% of women identify as being submissive and wanting a dominant partner, whereas only like 30% of men identified as being dominant wanting a submissive partner. And I thought that was pretty telling to look at just how, the percentages of men who don't feel that part of eros calling to them, or aren't j Yeah, I don't know what that is. I don't know. Again, if it just comes from a lack of modeling or if we've gotten so polarized with how we look at our gender roles that some of this has gotten really confusing, and so we've maybe gotten a little neutral or we've become more afraid or we're power grasping.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 28:39

I think it is symptomatic of the imbalance.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 28:44

Mm-hmm.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 28:45

I think it's symptomatic of the imbalance. I think men, a lot of men are hopping out of their dominance.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 28:57

Yeah.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 28:57

It's too scary for them, it is too expensive for them. They don't believe their dominance will be rewarded, and to some degree they are not wrong in that fear.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 29:07

True.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 29:08

I have darts thrown at me all day long on social media by people who say, you are a neanderthalic asshole.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 29:16

Mm-hmm.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 29:17

Right? You should shut the hell up and go away, right? I have women literally posting, somebody just posted this in one of my posts. It's 2023, we don't really give a fuck what men think. Nobody gives a fuck what men think. And I'm like, if this is the level of vitriol, but you know, these opinions are not unique. You know, there is this much misandry in our culture today. The future is feminine, men are crap. Men are responsible for all the problems of the world. Shut the fuck up, we don't care what you have to say. Women rule the world. I'm like, go rule the world. Go fucking rule the world if that works for you, because no one's stopping you these days. If you women want submissive men, have 10 of them, please, they're waiting in line for you. They will come put on their tutus and clean your fucking toilets for you. You know that? Put a ad out saying, submissive men want it for service, and you will get a very long list of applications. So if they turn you on, the world is yours to take. Why aren't you happy and thriving? And a lot of those men are, listen, if this is how I can get close to women and be successful with women, I'll take it. If that is the pathway you give to them to success with women, if this is how you can get access to women's bodies, if this is how women can give you their approval, if you're only submissive to them, there are a whole bunch of men, they'll say, I'll take it. I'll take it. And, but it's not a winning formula. But that's what's happening. They're like, okay, women want us to be submissive and weak and feminine and cry and show them our feelings. If will that get us their love and approval and sex and bodies, we'll do it. Men are flexible that way, but they are not the ones who have come up with this premise, but they really have to work against the current to step into their dominance and say, this is actually who I am, take it or leave it. It takes a bit of aggression on their part to be able to do that, and many of them simply don't have that in them to do it themselves.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 31:27

And then what kind of transformation do you see? Because it seems like that's the more, that's the more natural way. Like that's the way of nature, like the yang holds.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 31:35

They are weak and undesirable men and they are revolting to you women. That's the bottom line. They don't turn you on. You encounter those men and your rectum churns in revulsion at their weakness, at their lack of masculinity, at the fact that they have no edge. Your reptilian brain tells you this man cannot have my back. This man cannot protect me, wrong choice. These triggers and these circuits are really non-negotiable. They're very primal because they're based in survival. You women have an immediate response to these weak men. You may be too polite to express it, but those men are failing. This whole model is failing. You women are not rushing to these men with open arms saying, oh, come to me, my submissive boy. I love you.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 32:30

Well, I think also a lot of this stuff doesn't get revealed necessarily early on in the courtship. And we're also presenting different parts of our psyche at different stages in the relationship. I know, by being self-reflective and pretty honest with myself, when I'm dating someone, I tend to present high sexuality and then I get safe and kind of comfortable and then my sexual impulse starts to dim a little bit. And so I've watched, and then having to like work with that and find creative ways to fuel the flames and get things ignited again is a process for a lot of couples. I've watched men who have that impulse, who have sort of that Dom, there's a kinky kind of dirty boy in there that wants to be able to be unleashed, but he's had so many encounters with the feminine that rejects some aspect.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 33:27

They don't feel safe with that.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 33:28

Yeah. That it's like it becomes too risky to, in the mind says it's too risky to take those risks and to put that out there. And I'll be honest with you Om, there have been stages in my life where that wouldn't have been welcome. I would've resisted that. I would've fought against that strong, more harder dominant desire. Now I'm in a stage of my life where I really crave that. And this is what I think is really exciting about healing and sexuality is stages. They, they evolve. They things shift and change. And if you can stay open, then more and more is open to you. But it's interesting when I reflect on my life, wow, I don't think I could have, I wasn't ready for that concept then that would've been a closed door. And so if you've closed the door on someone before getting them to trust you, when you want to open that another door, or maybe five more doors, when that initial rejection happened with not just you, but a couple of partners, how do you navigate that?

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 34:35

You're describing a very multilayered process. Let me see if I can tease it out. So one thing I will question in your premise is this, I don't think at any stage in your life was your system ever closed off to receiving good containment.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 34:49

True.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 34:51

So that's something if a strong man had presented to you from the father onwards, and many women did not get it from their fathers either. That's where the disaster started. Father was supposed to be the first model of holding his little girl and giving her containment, making her feel safe, making her feel held, making her feel, I've got you.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 35:09

You're right.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 35:10

And you didn't get it From there comes all the adjustments, and to some degree, all the mal adjustments. What are the adjustments? Oh, the primary masculine figure in my life is not giving me that containment. Now what? I'm kind of screwed I have to give it to myself. I have to self contain. If the primary masculine is not giving me that containment, can I actually rely on men to give containment? Maybe I should not rely on them to give me containment, another problem, right?

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 35:42

That's a big one.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 35:42

Start with containment, so if you are not able to receive a man's containment, forget about the rest of it. If you are able to trust a man's containment, receive it. Be receptive to it. To me, that's like the first door you walk through. That's where trust gets established. That I actually need this man to bring this energy and as a woman, I need this energy from him. And other things flow from it, right? If you mistrust a man's containment, it's there's no starting point, right?

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 36:12

You have to

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 36:12

Beyond that. Beyond that, if you are afraid of men's dominance, I would put that in the category of feminine wounding, because you think. Men's dangerousness is there only to hurt you because you've been hurt by it.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 36:32

That makes sense

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 36:34

It's not the case.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 36:36

Mm-hmm.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 36:37

That's like saying, I got bit by a rotweiler when I was five. All dogs bite people. All dogs attack people and dog owners will tell you that's not entirely true.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 36:50

Mm-hmm.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 36:51

Your statement is not false. But dogs primarily protect people. They love with their ferociousness.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 36:58

Right.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 36:59

A dangerous dog. Do dogs, bite people say, yeah, my Rottweiler, if you tried attacking my baby, that Rottweiler will fuck you up. But the Rottweiler would do it, protecting my baby or me. The same metaphor applies to dangerous men. To dominant men. They're not there primarily to kill you and hurt you to damage you. They are there to protect you, but their dangerousness cuts all ways.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 37:31

Yeah. And I think that's what is confusing because many of us have been exposed to whatever the toxic patriarchal archetype can look like, where you just have a pretty unhealthy man domineering everybody without love, and it's, and everyone's in pain around it. And so I think, especially my generation, it's the, being raised with the generation that came after the women's lib movement and, you know, being being groomed to be able to compete with men in every sector by and large. There's been a lot of interesting conditioning that I think is unusual when you take a look at human history that goes, I reject any of that biblical bullshit that puts women down and objectifies them, takes any choice away from them. I know there was a real hyper vigilance in me that in order to rebel against that original grooming of two, two big religions that really put women lesser than men, there became a fierce hyper vigilance to watch out for the guy that was dominant because he would take your autonomy away. He would start to control, you would become this weak thing. And and so I think there's another piece of conditioning that really has to be reworked for women around looking at men differently, being able to embrace and support and inspire a man's power. And And, and all of that curious what you have to say.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 39:16

You I agree with most of what you're saying and my approach to it is even more simple and basic than that because it's kind of how my brain works and I like to really things down. So I will just give you from all that you said, leaving the Old Testament out of it. Mm-hmm. This is what I would say. All human beings act in self-interest, Which is totally fine. Right. All relationships are based in self-interest, which is totally fine. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Don't do any relationship that is not in your interest. Don't do any relationship that is not helping you, favoring you, bringing richness into your life. Don't be with any man if being with him is not enriching your life, adding to your life, period. And I think that's pretty self-explanatory, Mm-hmm. Right? Leave everything else aside. If any man, the way he is, the way his personality is, the way he treats you, the way he talks to you, the way his energy is, if you feel contracted and shrunk and taken away, leave him, he's a bad, match.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 40:21

I don't think that a lot of people are actually experiencing that. It's their fear of experiencing that.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 40:26

Well then that fear has to be dealt with, but there's another point you made there, which I think is the biggest point of them all. You have been taught to compete with men.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 40:37

Right.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 40:38

right? The key to all relationships. This is an entire video series that I'm going to be putting out pretty soon. The key to any functional relationship is agreement. That's it. You want to fix all your relationships. I mean all not just romantic relationships, your relationship to your parents, to your father, to your every relationship is about people being able to come into agreement. And if women have been taught, if feminism has taught you that a core virtue of modern women should hold, is never come into agreement with a man, they have put a surgical strike on the success possibility you have with men. They have taken away the one ingredient you need to create successful relationship, which is agreement, and they've told you never agree with a man, compete with him. Instead, Mm-hmm. you're screwed. It's a surgical strike on what makes relationships work.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 41:37

It's really come from this place of like, self-preservation. I think over the eons, like there was a lot of lack of safety, right?

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 41:47

I don't buy that premise. I don't buy that premise that for eons, men have had their boot on women's throat. I think it's bullshit. Hmm. Men love their women sacrificially. Men have sacrificed themselves for their women and children.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 42:04

Yeah. That story doesn't get told very often.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 42:07

Yeah, I mean, both sides are true.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 42:09

shields in front of their women and children.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 42:12

It's so true.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 42:13

When men go to war, it isn't because they have a hard on for it. It is because they have been pushed against a wall and they know if they don't go to battle, there are barbarians at the gate coming to rape and kill their women and children. And to prevent that from happening, they go out there and often die. And if they succeed as a tribe, they succeed in passing on their DNA, it is built into the evolutionary model. It is a logical thing for men to do, to love their women and children sacrificially. That's how they get to pass on their genes.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 42:49

Mm-hmm.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 42:50

who did not protect as women and children had their women and children and die, and those genes never got passed on. That cowardice is not selected for in evolution. Sacrificing yourself to protect your DNA is actually selected for, so this entire nonsense that men have simply used women as chattel it's not true.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 43:13

yes, but I will push back just a little bit. And that is the women being property for so long and there's a, there that is a, that's a thread that you can't just wipe off. And, but I do also completely agree with you that men love women and have always loved women and cherished women and want to please women. And to think that was just absent from humanity is, is nonsense.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 43:43

incorrect. And if you, if you hold that premise of what the average man is, your brain will logically tell you, do not come into agreement with this man. Will mean you will forever be playing a zero sum game with him.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 43:58

right. right

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 43:58

Mm-hmm.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 43:59

Will forever be playing a win lose game with him. That for you to win, the man has to lose. This is the entire premise of feminism. This is the entire premise of patriarchal theory, which is men have been winning at the cost of women for eons. It is time for women to win at the cost of men. Both those premises are incorrect. Neither of those premises makes room for agreement between men and women.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 44:26

Right. It's it's just more war. It's

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 44:28

It is all war and it is a zero sum game. And I think even women playing the zero sum game for the past 60 years. I don't know how happy you are playing that game. I don't know how successful you are.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 44:41

A lot aren't, and they're not able to trust men. And

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 44:45

You're not

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 44:45

that's, I think one of the big things going on in the world right now with women is they don't trust themselves and they don't trust men. And so how can a woman, so how can she receive from a man, how can she be contained if she doesn't even have that trust in herself? So how can working in this realm of sexuality open up those doors for a woman who's stuck in, I keep taking physical abuse or verbal abuse from one relationship into the next relationship because I don't think I'm worthy and I don't trust that I am worthy and I can't trust anyone. But I keep attracting these same kind of people who give me that behavior.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 45:28

by, yeah.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 45:29

Yeah.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 45:30

Again, I don't know. You're really conflating abusive relationship with healthy relationship. I believe This point I'm making actually like links back to what Leah said four questions ago, which is like, I'm not able to trust the strength of men. I'm not able to trust strong men. I'm not able to be receptive to them. And I'm like, that's the key part. You have to shift.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 45:49

Yeah.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 45:50

You have to believe a truly dominant man is your monster.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 45:55

Yes. Gimme that monster.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 45:58

You, he needs to be your, he is your Rottweiler. And as your Rottweiler, you need to feed him raw meat. You need to keep him strong, but you need to trust he's your rotweiler. If you make that rottweiler weak, if you become antagonistic to his strength, when the time comes, he will be useless to you. So that is where the healing is needed. Men are not here to kill you. Men are most often here to kill on your behalf. that dangerousness is needed. don't make room for it, I think you're still running in shadow. You're running, you are afraid of men.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 46:36

Mm-hmm.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 46:37

And then he becomes afraid of himself, you know and then that it kind of kills a massive part of sexual energy.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 46:44

It does because he wants to win with you. And if you're saying, if you're like this, you can't win with me. So he is probably going to take that someplace else.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 46:52

right.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 46:52

So what does, what would advice would you have for maybe a woman who's dating or even a woman who wants to heal her relationship and knows that she's been emasculating, and overly critical, and really wants to make a shift and do some repairs? We've got two women, right? We've got a woman who's dating a number of people trying to find that next love of her life. And then you've got a woman who's wanting to repair some of the damage that she's caused. What would you say to them in terms of inspiring this, power and strength to arise in him? So he can be all he can be.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 47:33

I think the biggest obstacle I see in women when they claim they want to undertake this process is they, their pride gets in the way. They're getting too much payoff in their victim hood. They're getting too much payoff in finding men wrong. Not completely ready to give up. Give up all that stuff.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 47:53

I agree with that.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 47:54

They are not yet ready to simply come into a place where they can adore men and masculinity in mass. It is a revolting idea to many women, which to me is very telling. Like, can you do a devotion ritual worshiping all men on the planet? They'll be like, fuck you. You know what? Let me tell you something. You too goddesses know this teaching that many men, it isn't all that hard.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 48:25

It's not hard, it's beautiful.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 48:28

for men to do a honoring all women on the planet. you tell men come in this ritual, get down on your knees. Open up your heart to heal all the women of the world. Ask forgiveness of all the women of the world, they will do it with open heart. They have no problem saying, I adore every woman on the world from a newborn baby to a great grandmother. I adore the feminine.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 48:53

Mm-hmm.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 48:53

And you know, they mean it.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 48:57

And I love all you men out there who, who keep showing up that way. It's awesome.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 49:01

men have never lost track of the fact, of course, I love women. Women are amazing. Women are beautiful. Of course, I need women. It is not in men's constitution to win over women. They don't get it, they, there's no payoff in it. Their win is in, in making a woman happy. Win is in having a woman smile at them. Their win is having a woman like them. Their win is in succeeding in making a woman happy. There is no such thing, only the most psychopathic sadist would get happy, making a woman miserable, and we are not talking about

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 49:40

Yeah. We're talking collectively as a whole.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 49:43

Collectively, men's win comes from making women happy. It's how we are built. We are not built any other way. So this entire premise that we are here to make you miserable and to just win at your cost, it is not true with the way we are built. We have no payoff. Being with an unhappy woman is the most miserable thing for a man. That's where a man fails. You want to see the biggest, baddest man fail? Have his woman be miserable with whatever he is doing, and he will fail.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 50:15

I hate that.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 50:16

So there is no such saying as a man being with a miserable woman, feeling I am winning.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 50:21

No.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 50:22

doesn't work.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 50:22

true

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 50:23

It doesn't work, but I don't think, I don't think the

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 50:24

I don't think it goes the other way either. Yeah.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 50:27

I think I think what's interesting though is I had a voice that kind of popped up during some of that. It was like, there's so many men out there whose hearts are shut down, and I get this complaint a lot from women, and my pet answer has always been, are you the type of woman that his heart is safe to be around if you keep on attracting a lot of men with hearts that are shut down? And so I think what women A don't realize is how they contribute to that heart closing down to them. But B, what do they need to do in order to have that heart open back up? Because there's a alchemical response when your partner is really deeply receiving you in their heart, I think, especially as a woman.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 51:15

I I can answer this because this is a topic that has come up in my own inquiry, and this is something I've actually received beautiful wisdom from some of my own teachers. I'll give you two part answer to this. One part is this, women feel entitled to men's hearts. we are at a stage where we are all in agreement, men are not entitled to women's sex.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 51:40

Mm-hmm.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 51:40

We are not entitled to your sex. You open up your sex to the man that you want. You open up your sex when you want. You decide when you want to open it. You decide when you want to close it. And any man who says otherwise, he can go fuck himself. We don't have a right to a woman's sex. And she say, conversely, women don't have a right to a man's heart. But women don't work according that premise. You come into a first date with a man and say, I can't feel his heart. That would be the equivalent of a man saying, oh, she came to the first date. She didn't, she didn't give me

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 52:12

She didn't put out

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 52:14

right, right,

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 52:16

I told her, take your panties off at the restaurant. And she didn't. Oh, her sex is so closed. We would slap that man in the face. face

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 52:24

Yeah. We don't appreciate it when a man acts entitled.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 52:26

So are you the kind? You haven't earned the access to his heart mm-hmm. A man still has not earned the access to your sex yet.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 52:36

Right.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 52:37

And women don't like hearing this.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 52:39

I don't that, maybe it's all about the delivery, but I do think that because this has been.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 52:45

Well, it depends on where the woman's at in her journey and all of that.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 52:50

I don't believe men's hearts are closed. I think if you, if it appears that the man's heart is closed, it's because he has lost so often with women. Mm.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 52:59

Yeah.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 53:00

that he's simply in a losing state with women.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 53:03

Hmm.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 53:04

Okay. So the language could change a little bit around

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 53:06

just as women, just as a woman is likely to protect her sex after she's been bulldozed by men who did not take care of her sex.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 53:16

Yeah.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 53:17

Men are just as likely to hold their heart in reserve because they have lost too often, too consecutively with too many women. Women who only cared about the consequences to their heart by their relationship decisions. Nobody really cares about men's hearts the truth be told.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 53:33

I don't, I don't think that's, I think that's a not a very I don't think that's a very generous assumption. Is part.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 53:39

No, it is my observation. I believe this is one of the narcissistic tendencies of women that you think you are the only ones with feelings in a relationship. It's because you talk more about your feelings. I don't see women having any awareness about the damage they're leaving to men's hearts behind them. I don't think women have any sense of it whatsoever. All they care about is my own heartache. Oh, the men who broke my heart. Men don't talk about their heartache as much as you do.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 54:07

No, no we're there. That's, I think that what you're observing has some truth to it, but I think it's really missing some nuances too. Because a lot of people in this audience definitely care about who, how their partners are feeling and doing and what's opening and what's closing.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 54:29

I think even when you women claim you do, ultimately you're claiming, how do your feelings impact my feelings? This is what I hear.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 54:38

Om, I'm going to, actually, I'm going to push back a little bit because I think it comes back to what you said earlier, which is we are all looped in to what's in it for me. And that doesn't make people bad because they are looking out for themselves. Oftentimes when we say something like, well, they were just looking out for themselves, as if that's an unnatural thing for them to do. It doesn't mean they don't care. It just means their first point of attention is going to be on how they're feeling, on what their perspective is, on what they're observing and witnessing whether it's accurate or not. And let's face it, most of the time it's not completely accurate because how can it be? We are the subjective beings, taking in what's happening in our environment. And so we can be a little trigger happy when it's me, me, me, but that doesn't mean we don't have the full range and conscious ability to step outside of that.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 55:38

Yeah, and I do think it's individual. It depends on where somebody's at in their journey and how conscious they are of the other peoples emotions

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 55:44

I'm absolutely not saying that women are not capable of feeling into men's hearts. I've just observed over and over it's simply not a priority or a focus point for most women.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 55:53

Well, hold on, here's what I think. I think it's another skill that hasn't been trained. It's not something that's been modeled really well.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 56:00

women have been trained to be dismissive towards men's feelings. It's been overemphasized that your feelings matter, your preferences matter, and men are supposed to there to provide you with your experiences and your emotional journeys. I don't think we have that much focus on men.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 56:16

Well, that's interesting. And I think you, I think that's true. I mean, I think my husband would say that in terms of like, who gets to whose preferences get fulfilled the most. It's mine. And he would say, when we first started dating, it was so funny. He was like, you always know what you want. I mean, I can't come up with shit that quick. And at first it was like, he admired that and then, later he was got annoyed by that. Like that I always knew what I wanted to eat.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 56:48

So you always got what you wanted

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 56:50

Yeah. I always had an answer, and, and so those preferences have actually been some static in the relationship. And to play with okay, well, I don't know why I have been groomed or conditioned to have an answer for what I want or need. And it can come up to the surface so quick. And I wonder now that you've sort of said that if that's a common thing between a lot of men and women, that men don't, they haven't been allowed the space to have their own preferences totally explored.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 57:27

I think that's a huge part of it, and it, I think it comes back to that piece around women not being able to receive. So it's like, if a, if, woman can really own that superpower and embody that, that power of receptivity, then a man has the chance to actually feel himself, feel his own emotions and then she can receive them. So it's more of a magnetic thing and then the heart just opens.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 57:53

And it's also true that our emotions can bulldoze

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 57:57

Oh, for sure.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 57:58

and, blow out someone else's nervous system. Because we've been given more permission.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 58:03

Especially cyclically and when we look at, yeah, when we look at the hormones, I mean, we have more complex hormonal situations going on. And hormones rule our emotions, so that's a factor as well. But yeah, it's, we, if we're overtaking all the space for the emotion and making that the main priority, oh me, my, my emotion and what I'm going through and what I'm feeling and my heartbreak and my this and my that. Yeah. There's no room for a man to even feel his much less express it.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 58:33

I think that's very common. I'll tell you what else

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 58:36

it might be common, but I think you're wrong if you think women don't care, that care.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 58:43

They may not know how to care for it, but they do.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 58:46

Listen to me. Women are never going to admit they not care about anything. You say puppies you care. Of course we care. Dogs you care. A man you care. Man's emotions. Yes, we care. We care. We care about everything. Are you actually putting your energy there? If your if your emotions are taking over 98% of the field, how much are you caring for the man's emotions?

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 59:09

Well, I will do some homework on this because I am thoroughly curious to know. Here?

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 59:13

I will. I will. I will. I will share one other observation with you, which may, if you take it to heart, it may really blow your mind.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 59:21

Okay?

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 59:22

The fact this phenomena that women don't have focus on men's hearts is one of the main reason men don't commit to women.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 59:34

I don't doubt it

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 59:36

you think you can men win men over with your beauty, with your sex, with your body. We love your body, your sex, your beauty, but we will engage with you sexually.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 59:49

right.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 59:50

Will be your sex partners. And if women are constantly baffled that the man that they had chemistry with, the man they got along with,

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 59:58

Right,

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 59:59

never committed to them, did not want to commit to them, and then you come up with your own theories of Our men are commitment phobes, men just want sex. No, truth is you never touched his heart. You were never interested. When opportunities came for you to feel into his heart, you walked right past them and you were talking about something else, or your own emotions. And he said, why am I going to want to connect with this woman.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 1:00:24

Or even because we're so wanting to be loved and desired, we aren't really ourselves. So what is there to love if you're not showing up, being yourself and you're always trying to be desirable and interesting and attractive, and the point of his attention. Because a lot of women will tie themselves up into pretzels trying to be what she thinks will get her love instead of just being her loving self. To allow that energy to even come back and forth. So we're completely distracted in wanting to remain desirable and attractive to that person because we desperately want to be loved, but we're missing the boat because we're not really being ourselves. And so I think we all come by this as innocent babies because we're groomed to go. I mean, I remember like the first pushup bra and the makeup and the tight shirt, and I just thought, well, if I looked sexy, that's what men love. And it took me until I was 25 before I got the clue I wasn't being myself at all. And so, what can you fall in love with? Who are you even falling in love with if someone isn't being authentic? And, and so this is really a painful realization for a lot of people to come to because what they've been spoonfed is lovable, especially a woman's conditioning. To find out that all that gets you is sex and a body close to you, but it doesn't get your hearts together. You know, is, it's heartbreaking. And then you gotta work from the bottom and you gotta really shift all of that. And it's a journey.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 1:02:09

Yeah. We've, we've covered so much today and I mean so much food for thought and things to think about and really just a lot of great, I think come to Jesus moments about where we're at as men and women in the world and like, let's really look at it and we all have a different perspective and I think there's value in all of it. And so as the listeners are tuning in to this to this episode. Like really listening to what Om's saying and really taking in and putting your ego aside and, looking back at your own history and your own life and getting curious, like where, where have I played that part in a relationship and where am I now? Am I playing that in my current relationship or is there some place, yeah, is there some place inside of me that can really receive a new way forward? I think that's really what this whole thing is about is like, let's reimagine what it would be like if we if we could just meet each other where we haven't for so long.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 1:03:16

Yeah, yeah. If we could learn some containment practices,

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 1:03:23

Learn how to receive it. Learn how to give it. You know

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 1:03:26

And I think too, just to kind of, you know, put an exclamation point on what Om was sharing. Regarding the heart piece and to just go, what I tell my women in our classes is treat a man's heart the way you want him to treat your yoni, which is patience. No entitlement. You knock on the door, you ask permission, are you open to me coming in? Sure would like to hang out here. And you give them the space that they need so that their trust and opening should they have closed some doors that you're patient. You wouldn't want someone to keep pushing you and pushing you and pushing you and acting as if they have a right to your body when your body isn't open. And and, and instead of assuming that, you know, ask and give some space for the answer and, be mindful of judgments and see if you can't get curious about them. so that a real open-ended conversation can arise.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 1:04:31

Yeah. Curiosity is, is key. Om, how can our listeners find you?

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 1:04:37

Ahh you can go to my website. Everything is there omrupani.org. I have a teaching website, uh, that's different from that omrupani.com, which has a lot of free material and videos.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 1:04:49

Yeah, I've watched a bunch of it. It's good

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 1:04:51

I have a bunch of free stuff there. You can check it out. You don't have to

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 1:04:54

tell us about your book.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 1:04:57

I have a book called

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 1:04:57

great things Prerequisites to Ecstasy,

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 1:04:59

which is about relationships, especially how to make long-term relationships work and function. So you can check that out. It's on Amazon.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 1:05:06

So thank you so much Om. We've had

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 1:05:08

so much fun. Thank you.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 1:05:10

It's been so enlightening and just what a great

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 1:05:13

These

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 1:05:13

interview.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 1:05:14

conversations.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 1:05:15

yeah. The Take this to a dinner party y'all, because this is some good dinner party fodder to discuss and you know, watch your tribe be more enlightened when it comes to loving each

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 1:05:25

other. Absolutely.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 1:05:26

We'll see you on the flip side. Thank you so much. love, love.

Om Rupani | sxr guest: 1:05:30

much.

Announcer: 1:05:31

Now, our favorite part, the dish.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 1:05:36

Ommmmm oh my God. Oh, my goddess. Oh. Um, what a dish he is.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 1:05:47

know. He just really brings a pretty strong perspective forward. You know, I have to say like, okay, yes, I see his point and there is truth in it. And there are as many truths in this world as there are people. Because everyone has their own viewpoint and their own perspective. And, um, you know, I. One, I mean, I'm going to say it really touched me. Halfway through the interview I was like, oh my God,

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 1:06:15

Yeah. It is a little intense.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 1:06:16

it was a little intense. But then, but then in the end I was like, okay, yeah, I softened and I was listening and I was like, okay, I can see where I have not taken care of the hearts of men, you know, in the past. I'm not doing that now, but even in some recent past, I could have taken better care of the hearts of men.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 1:06:39

I can, I can totally own that. I can take up uh, more emotional space, um, selfishly, you know. And, and sometimes my husband can, you know, like, I mean, really when I think about it, I mean, there's been times when Matt has completely steamrolled the emotional space available to the two of us and I back down and you know, go, okay, well. You know, your feelings are going to matter more than mine right now, because there's just not enough room for both of us. And, you know, so I think we both get our turns, but it still may not be equal. And how important is equality? Well, maybe it's very important. I don't, I can't bottom line this shit, because if I start acting like I know, It'll, it'll come to me quicker that I know nothing. So it's just kind of better to go, what the fuck do I know? I mean, I, I came in this body, so I am more sensitive to patriarchal experiences. And, and it's probably those triggers have been taken out on the wrong men and I can see that and own that. And I'm, I feel so relieved that I feel like I've been in recovery of not seeing men or misjudging men due to my own self judgements. And so, I mean, I can see that and I can get that, but he almost made it sound like, you know, it's hopeless, women will never get something, you know, or,

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 1:08:08

well, well,

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 1:08:10

sweeping

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 1:08:12

he was just speaking. Yeah. He was speaking about the collective and generalizing basically the whole time. Which is, you know, which is okay. That's fine. We just need to preface like this is a generalization, you know, and, and so, and he's got such a dominating personality.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 1:08:29

Which I do love. I mean, I love his like,

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 1:08:32

For me, it's a little much. I'm a little bit like, thank God Leah's here to kind of step up to

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 1:08:39

I, I'm into it. I, I, but I like it when someone just stands up and is clear in what they think and feel and I also really appreciate someone who's unapologetic.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 1:08:50

Yeah.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 1:08:51

Now, where that starts to feel like a overwhelming, um, thing is when there's no willingness to have a flexible To be, to be influenced by others.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 1:09:08

And to, and to say like, that, that all, that You women do not care about the hearts of men. It's almost the same as saying, like, you men don't care about holding space for women. It's not that we don't care or that we don't want to, it's that we don't know how to. Right? We haven't known, we're all learning right now.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 1:09:31

Yeah. Yes, and I and you know, I have a feeling that he had a tough day on Facebook. And I have seen a lot of his posts over the years and I've always kind of been cheering him on like you go be audacious you say whatever the fuck you want to say, you know, cuz he doesn't Um, he doesn't let people, like, shut him down. Um, which I appreciate, like, he can come back. My husband is like that too. Like, they don't shy away from an argument. They don't, their nervous system doesn't seem like it floods the way mine would, and then I just have to turn around and go, this is not, this just feels toxic to my field. And I'm getting upset, and I, and I don't know what to do with all of that. I, I often admire people who can, um, spar, intellectually, you know. Like they have some kind of capacity that I don't

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 1:10:26

Yeah.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 1:10:26

Um, and so he kind of represents one of those people to me. I feel like he can most of the time speak a lot of wisdom, straightforward. He gives it to you straight.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 1:10:37

Mm hm.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 1:10:39

but And I, but what I experienced was a charge

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 1:10:45

Mm hm.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 1:10:46

And when there's a charge to something, um, you know that it can't, it's not like this pearl of wisdom because it's charged up with Hmm, I know I'm kind of like, I'm starting to come up with like sea metaphors. Barnacles, you know, I don't know. It's covered in sand, it needs to be rinsed. It's in murky water. I don't know. Um, It's still a pearl. There's still a pearl of wisdom, but it's slightly covered up. You can't, you can't hold it and treasure it and.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 1:11:27

There was so much truth to what he was saying, and you know, and what I was saying before we got on our dish is like, we started out the conversation talking about how men in general, as a generalization, don't know how to be a container for their, uh, partners, female partners. And um, you know, we're, we're both in full agreement with that. Yep. Totally there

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 1:11:52

but I also feel like that lacks some compassion. Because I was like, you know, it's almost like, I don't know, like, because they're idiotic? No, it's because they, no one's ever modeled

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 1:12:03

No, they haven't learned.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 1:12:05

And I know that there's a way for all beings to support the aptitude to become more competent in, in ways of loving and supporting each other that, you know, would be awesome. And yes, it'd be wonderful for men who are romantically involved with women. It doesn't have to even be romantically, just our relationships between men and women, um, that there be that. Place of holding so that a woman can really be unedited

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 1:12:38

Yeah.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 1:12:38

in her full embodiment of her emotions, her sensations, her expression, and we're so, we have so many reasons to be wound up tight.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 1:12:53

Mm hmm.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 1:12:54

Um, and to feel like we're all alone, and no one's gonna save the day, um, I gotta do it all myself, um, I love you but I don't really trust.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 1:13:05

Yeah. I mean, that's the other side of the spectrum that we've had to swing to and, and, you know, when I was saying we've been, uh, sort of oppressed for eons. The feminine has been oppressed for eons. I'm not just talking about women in physical bodies as human beings. Look at the earth. Look at how oppressed the earth has been by, you know, domination by yang energy by domination and so it's it's beyond just like human male female. But but i think um i i really thought that what he was saying about like If you're holding that, if you're holding on to that as if it was like a bite you got from a dog when you were five years old, if you're still holding on to that bite from that dog, you're never going to be able to enjoy dogs now. You're never going to be able to enjoy or to be present with what is now. And so

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 1:13:58

by the

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 1:13:58

that's very

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 1:13:59

was going on with the dog when he bit you? Does anyone care about the dog's feelings? I thought that was genius. I'm like, right, like we're so consumed

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 1:14:08

With our own stuff.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 1:14:10

and it's like our, our ability to be Not just like, more self aware, but like, aware of others and their own experiences. And I also thought it was interesting, um, you know, what, I would love to kind of parse out, like, okay, what role What would men want from a female partner to learn containment? How, what's the best

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 1:14:41

What would, what would help them learn how to be a container if their woman was a certain way?

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 1:14:47

Yeah, like, what's it, what, and this might be, you know, something that can only be answered personality by personality, you know, about what would work and what, what would backfire,

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 1:14:57

Well, I think one of the biggest things just answering from my own experience working with people for so long is the receptivity piece. You know, if a woman cannot receive and the reason she cannot receive is because she doesn't think she's worthy, that's the root of everyone's shit.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 1:15:14

outside of herself before she can get to the truth.

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 1:15:17

Of course, that is happening all the time and there's so much resentment built up in it and nobody can see straight because it's just a smorgasbord of emotional trigger back and forth, trigger ping pong game. So you know, if she can be In true receptivity, he can be in his masculine. But that's where we have, as, as women, we have had to hold so much masculine. I mean, all the women who come to me, it's like, they're exhausted because they're holding so much yang. And the reason they're holding so much yang is they don't trust their man to do it. And the reason they don't trust their man to do it is because he doesn't know how to do it. The reason he doesn't know how to do it is because she hasn't given him a chance to do it. We have to give men a chance to be men.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 1:16:03

Or we haven't cultivated trusting ourselves enough to be able to relinquish control and let someone else pick up the slack. Because there's a story that goes, I'll just be disappointed. They'll just let me down. They won't do it right. I have to do it all. And it's just a self serving martyr, you know, And I'm guilty of it. I mean,

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 1:16:27

Oh, yeah. We've all been there.

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 1:16:29

there in my, um, human design chart. I got the martyr and, um, it's a tough one. It's a toughie, but

Dr. Willow | sxr co-host: 1:16:37

And it's not about making yourself wrong for doing it or, you know, if you do it again, like just whatever, just self

Leah Piper | sxr co-host: 1:16:43

and by the way, I believe that there is a healthy mama's boy out there and I'm not afraid of the mama's boy. Thank you for loving your mama and, um, And do the work to clean up what isn't healthy between you and your mama. Thank you so much. Love, love, love.

Announcer: 1:17:01

Thanks for tuning in. This episode was hosted by Tantric Sex Master Coach and Positive Psychology Facilitator, Leah Piper, as well as by Chinese and Functional Medicine Doctor and Taoist Sexology Teacher, Dr. Willow Brown. Don't forget, your comments, likes, subscribes, and suggestions matter. Let's realize this new world together.