Michelle Oravitz: Fertility Acupuncture | Unlocking Your Reproductive Potential | #90

Are you struggling with irregular periods, low libido, or fertility challenges? Discover how acupuncture and Chinese medicine can help you optimize your reproductive health and unlock your fertility potential in this enlightening episode with Michelle Oravitz. Tune in now and discover the power of acupuncture, moon cycle awareness, and the mind-body connection.

YOU’LL LEARN

• How acupuncture helped Michelle overcome her own fertility struggles and inspired her to change careers
• The surprising connection between your menstrual cycle, libido, and fertility
• Why a holistic approach is key to diagnosing and treating fertility issues
• Practical tools for getting in tune with your body and supporting fertility naturally
• Strategies for navigating the emotional challenges of trying to conceive

EPISODE LINKS *some links below may also be affiliate links

• Michelle’s | Website 
• Michelle’s | Wholesome Fertility Podcast
• Michelle’s Free Gift |  Fertility E-book
• Reproductive Acupuncture Organization | ABORM
• Book | Taking Charge Of Your Fertility by Toni Weschler
• Book | The Power of the Subconscious Mind by Joseph Murphy
• Institute | Heartmath
• Retreats | Dr. Joe Dispenza

LAST 10x LONGER. If you suffer from premature ejaculation, you are not alone. Master 5 techniques to cure this stressful & embarrassing issue once and for all. For 20% off use code PODCAST20. Register here.

THE MALE GSPOT & PROSTATE MASTERCLASS. This is for you if… You’ve heard of epic anal orgasms, & you wonder if it’s possible for you too. Save 20% Coupon PODCAST20. Buy Here.

THE VAGINAL ORGASM MASTERCLASS. Discover how to activate the female gspot, clitoris, & cervical orgasms. Save 20% Code: PODCAST 20 - Buy Here

KING & QUEEN OF HEARTS. Leah & Willow's King & Queen of Hearts Intimacy Toolkit is on sale. Use Coupon  Code KINGANDQUEEN10 for 10% off. 

Transcript

Leah: 1:15

It is your host, Leah Piper and Dr. Willow Brown.

Willow: 1:19

Yeah, and today we've got Michelle Orovitz, who is an acupuncturist, Ayurvedic practitioner, and certified hypnotherapist specializing in fertility health. Michelle was inspired to change her career from architecture to acupuncture after having her own reproductive imbalances resolved by her very own acupuncturist, who you're going to hear about in this episode. And her method of treatment encompasses not only herbs and acupuncture, but also diet supplements, essential oils, and most importantly, how the mind influences conception. So you're going to love this interview. It was packed full of all kinds of amazing information, especially if you have had a challenge with your fertility journey or you know somebody who has.

Leah: 2:06

So tune in, turn on and fall in love with Michelle.

Announcer: 2:11

Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is shame free and pleasure forward. Let's get into the show.

Leah: 2:19

Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, Michelle.

Michelle: 2:23

Thank you guys so much for having me.

Willow: 2:26

I'm so excited that you're here. It's so fun to talk with another acupuncturist in the field and um, I just love, you know, your story. I want to hear a little bit more about your genesis story, but how you went from architecture to acupuncture after experiencing your own journey with um, the profundity during um, fertility. So it sounds like you had a little bit of a struggle with your fertility journey, but got the support you needed.

Michelle: 2:53

Yeah. So it was actually before I was trying to conceive, but I had irregular periods really from the time I got my period at age 13 up until I finally found an acupuncturist and all the years I basically had like three month cycles and. Really regular, um, looking back, I may have had undiagnosed PCOS. That's kind of like looking back, thinking about my hair shedding and just like all the different symptoms that I had. Also the circadian rhythms disruptions, and, um, and then years later, it's interesting because I was actually, I'm working on the final touches of a book and I remember things that I didn't really remember before. And one of them was, uh, I was doing, I was obviously in architecture, so a completely different career. And then I finally, after going away for a couple of months, months, I went to like Europe and then I backpacked in Cuba. And when I was in Cuba, so the whole time I didn't get my period basically, I was off the birth control pill. It was about three months. I didn't get my period once. And when I was in Cuba, I met a Santeria, I don't know if you guys ever heard of that before. But that's kind of like their sort of spiritual, like, yeah, and, and it's really cool. Yeah, yeah. So basically he, um, they're like spirit, they're, their type of spiritual, it's kind of like, it's specific to Cuba and it's their type of, uh, spiritual, like they have priests and mediums and some of them are like really intuitive. So I went and spoke to one who was intuitive and he told me to look into my pelvic region that there was something going on there. And at the time I was like, what could be, what that, what could that be? Like, it didn't really make sense to me. I'm like, there's nothing really wrong there, but I'm like, okay. Um, and I was 25, so I was just like, okay. So then he said, um, when you go back home, there's going to be an older man that's really tall and he's going to change your life. So I was like, okay, that's interesting. And it was just like, I totally forgot about it. And I didn't really make sense of it even when it was happening. So I finally came home. And told my mom, listen, I didn't get my period the whole time. Fine. I was like, you know, when I was younger, I didn't really think about it too much. I just went on and off my birth control pill. And, and I knew intuitively to get off the birth control pill sometimes. Cause I just felt like this can't be good doing all the time to my body. So I finally went back home and told my mom and she said, you know what? I heard about this guy, Dr. Li, he's from China and he's a, um. He actually happened to be also a gynecologist in China because they do both Eastern and Western medicine. So they do both conventional training and he was a gynecologist in China and he was an amazing acupuncturist, like incredible, the nicest guy in the world. tall stature older. So it was kind of like interesting to think about. Now, um, went there was just like really amazed because coming there smelling the Chinese herbs in his office, like raw Chinese herbs and really getting that whole experience was really, it just felt almost like, like, um, what's the word? Almost like I felt like it was a remembering and I can't really describe that. Like it was almost like a remember, it had a familiarity to it. And it was just a really interesting, cause it's like an old type of smell that you can't really describe anywhere else. And he basically, I came home, I got my period and I started after seeing him, he totally got me on track. And he said to me, a woman's menstrual cycle is so important and it really reflects her health. And I remember him saying that, I was like, I get it, but I was like, okay, you know, but I almost like didn't really put that much emphasis. I just knew something was off that I needed to address. But looking back, I never really put the two and two together, but of course. Doctor Li completely saved my fertility at the time I didn't realize and he also changed my career. I mean he like helped me, yeah it was crazy. And then eventually I just decided to change my career. I studied medicine.

Leah: 7:20

So How do you help your career?

Michelle: 7:22

he changed my life. I mean, like what he has done definitely sparked a fire in me to do what he was doing. Like I was intrigued by the whole acupuncture and Chinese medicine. It was just, I was like, this is incredible. There's something really profound about this. And I've never really felt like I was faced with something so dramatic, even in my life, like life changing. And what I also found was that not only were my periods starting to get regular, but I felt different. I felt more aligned. And I think that part of that was sort of the cascade of events that eventually aligned me in my own life. Cause I feel that our lives, our lives are like metaphors for what's really going on internally and vice versa. Like if we're unaligned outside, it unaligns our bodies. So I thought that was just really, it just, it blew me away, like really did. And it was something that like once you have something so profound happen to you, you just naturally want to share it with the world.

Willow: 8:24

now the work that you do is a lot around fertility. you're also certified with Faborm, which you can tell everyone what that is. Um, it's sort of a sect within the acupuncture world that really specializes in fertility, but you also just help women to have healthy moon cycles. And even the, the gift that you have for our audience is around, um, having healthy and powerful moon cycles, very similar to the work that I do. Although I've always put the sort of this sexuality lens on it, right? I've always led with that. Like that through a healthy menstrual cycle, you have a healthy libido and you have a healthy, healthier relationship to your sexuality. Um, I'm actually right now, Michelle, and this might not even be podcast material, but I'm just, just what's up for me. And so maybe someone out there will be curious about it, but I'm just curious about how the marketing around, um, the moon cycle wisdom has been for you? Because I feel like I've been up against a wall with marketing around sexuality. I've had sex. Several social media accounts taken down. And it's

Michelle: 9:30

Oh wow.

Willow: 9:31

show trying to lead with that doorway of sexuality, you know? And so I'm just so curious about what your journey's been with like leading with this, Hey ladies, get your menstrual cycle, your moon cycle, your fertility years, like balanced and on track. I'm just curious from both the perspective of, um, you know, treating patients and clients. And then also just from a business perspective.

Michelle: 9:56

That's interesting that in today's day and age, um, talking about sexuality is like at all like weird on social media. You would think that it's become, you A lot more, something that we talk about, like, and connect with. But, um, I, I found that with social media, I'm really connecting with the community over the years. And I think part of it's the, so the podcast and I have people reach out, like I've had actually people reach out and tell me about their mental cycle and things that they haven't heard people talk about. And I've even like used it for a podcast, which was like a shorter follicular phase. Because a lot of people are focused on the luteal phase and just like the different things that the different interplay. But ultimately, I mean, it really are, it's like all pieces to a whole. Everything matters when it comes to the menstrual cycle. And I agree with you, Dr. Brown, like I really do believe that libido is, it really is such a barometer to our reproductive health. And that's one of the things that I see when I see new patients. I ask about libido in the intake form because it does show what's going on. If that's shut down, that's a big red flag. Like why? Why is that shut down? Because it should be something that during reproductive years should be flourishing.

Willow: 11:19

You know, that's one of the foundational pieces that I have always felt like a lot of people in the sexuality industry have, have missed is like paying attention to the adrenals, the ovaries, the thyroid, the whole endocrine triangle, and really just, um, addressing sexuality and libido from that standpoint. There are many standpoints to address sexuality and libido from, um, But that is one that I have seen, um, overlooked. So I just, I appreciate, you know, that that's sort of that you're leading with that. I think that's really, really powerful and something that I'm considering switching over to leading from that place. So it's exciting.

Leah: 11:59

So I've got a question, and that is when you're taking a look, let's say a woman comes in, and she is having, uh, struggles and issues of just not being in the mood, her libido is low, and you're taking a look at her moon cycle. What's the symptomology? What's happening with a woman's period that is causing the low libido to occur? That's a tough

Michelle: 12:21

question to answer because there's so many, like with Chinese medicine. We don't really treat the symptom, it's really the root cause, and there's so many different root causes that can cause that. So sometimes it could be like high stress, where the body's using all its energy towards just trying to figure out stress, or if they have inflammation, kind of low grade inflammation, the body's energy is being utilized that way. Because really it's like, not having enough energy is going to impact your libido. Or you can have very low fire, like the yang energy of the body, could, be really low, so that can cause that as well. So it really depends. And one of the things that you can see, for example, with the yang is that you'll see lower temperatures sometimes with their BBT charting. So you'll see that it's not quite reaching high enough. And then you'll see the luteal phase, which is a little bit more of the yang aspect of the menstrual cycle, is a little shorter. So you'll, you'll see certain patterns and things happening where. It starts to make a little more sense. So really it could be so many different roads can lead to the same symptom. And ultimately what you do is it's almost like a puzzle. You look, you observe, and then you ask questions and you try to figure out what's going on emotionally. Sometimes there is trauma, like some people have like almost like trauma that they hold literally in their womb, or there's some past sexual trauma that can also impact, and I'm sure you've seen this Dr. Willow as well. I mean there's so many different layers to my patients. I mean there's so many different, um, different conditions that can lead to the same thing.

Willow: 14:03

Absolutely.

Leah: 14:04

so I imagine that we're taking a look at what's their experience of their cycle. Are they late? Are they, um, are they bleeding? Are they bleeding too much? So on and so forth. What were those symptoms for them? And then also feeling the pulse points is, and let me know if I'm saying this wrong, like I imagine there's all these lines, right? And so you're feeling the pulses and you're noticing which areas, which points are weaker, which is giving you more information about the sluggishness or even the over amping of their different parts of their body that I imagine that those meridians connect to that part of the body. So I'm just like imagining what the diagnosis process is for you guys. And then you said something that I don't quite understand, which is, was it luteal

Michelle: 14:52

Okay. Yeah. So, so, uh, the menstrual cycle,

Willow: 14:56

and lyrical. Go ahead.

Michelle: 14:57

right? Exactly. So the menstrual cycle has many different phases that when people think of menstrual cycle, like typically if they don't really understand anything about it, they'll think about their period. But the menstrual cycle is really the whole cycle from period to next period. And the period from the period until ovulation is the follicular phase. And that's really when the, the lining sheds and then eventually the estrogen increases and, um, the LH increases and, and they start to grow the egg. So it's, it's the follicular, the, you think about the follicle will start to grow and then be ready to ovulate, and then it ovulates during ovulation. And then after ovulation is the luteal phase. And then if you look at the whole cycle in general, you see that the follicular phase is more yin, which is cooler and on the BBT charting, you'll see like, it's typically or normally it should be around 97s. So it could be like 97.2, 97.5 you know, just kind of like stays within 97 and then it dips a little bit and then it raises after ovulation and then it stays around 98. If it's lower, we either work on it through herbs or moksha or have them check their thyroid because it could be something that's a little bit more, generally speaking, I always have people have like a baseline from their doctors. You just always want to rule out any big things. so that's basically what I'll, I'll look at and I'll look at like, you know, what's going on um, is it, does it look like the ovulation stays in the middle? And what I was going to say is, so when you see that the lower temperature, typically that's a yin quality, and then it also kind of increases, it's kind of building the lining, which is blood. Which is also um, it's also a yin substance and then eventually that's going to keep increasing even in the next part. But the cervical mucus is a very yin substance as well. So it's a, and estrogen is considered more of a yin hormone. And that seems to be kind of like the predominantly, uh, estrogen in that follicular phase. And then afterwards you get into the progesterone and the temperature rising, so it's more of a yang hormones. So you see kind of like the yin and the yang through there. So when people come into my office and they tell me that they track their BBT, I celebrate, I get so excited. Because I can actually see things under the hood that I wouldn't normally be able to see. I'm sure Dr. Willow understands exactly what I'm talking about.

Willow: 17:34

Uh, yeah, and for those of you who don't know what BBT means, it's basal body temperature. So it's when you take your temperature first thing in the morning and then you, you know, you chart what your temperature is. So then you get, you get a whole month picture of, um, what's going on with your hormone levels based on your temperature. So it's really, um, Um, yeah, that information when somebody comes in is like gold.

Michelle: 18:04

Great stuff.

Leah: 18:05

that, is that part of the process of trying to get pregnant when

Willow: 18:09

A lot of people will do that in order to conceive naturally. There's a great book on it called, um, Tony Weschler's book. What's it called? Fertility. Um,

Michelle: 18:20

it's, um, I know exactly which one you're talking

Leah: 18:23

I'll look it up for the show

Michelle: 18:24

Yeah, yeah. But it's a, it's a great book because it describes exactly how to do it. And also to really understand your

Willow: 18:30

Taking charge of your fertility. That's it.

Michelle: 18:33

yep. And it also, um, describes like what to look for. So you can actually feel your cervix and your cervix, like feel softer when, during your ovulatory window. Now, not everybody does this if they're trying to conceive. However, I highly suggest it because. It's a great way of getting in tune with your body and then it also confirms ovulation. Because if you're doing just an LH stick, which is a typical like luteinizing hormone, um, tracker like stick. So basically you pee on the stick and it tells you if the LH is rising, typically where that hormone comes from is the brain. So it's not confirming that you really did ovulate. So it's just, it's showing that your body's trying to ovulate. But it doesn't confirm the only way to confirm if you're going to do it through urine is to also check progesterone metabolites, which some tests do. So some people opt to do just that. And then other people want to do the BBT and your temperature will not rise and stay elevated unless in fact you ovulated. So that's another way to confirm and also know exactly when it happened.

Leah: 19:45

Why is it important to take this temperature in the morning?

Michelle: 19:48

So typically to get an accurate read. You're supposed to be sleeping for at least three hours before doing that, and when you get out of bed, you're supposed to also take it before you get out of bed. When you get out of bed, as soon as you get out of bed, your temperature is going to change. So they say to keep it like by your bed stand, and a good thing to keep in mind, they're all digital now, so to put it in your mouth for five to ten minutes if possible before you even turn it on. To get the most accurate read. And so those are kind of little things, little tricks

Willow: 20:22

That's a good little trick I didn't know about. Yeah.

Leah: 20:27

cool. Okay, so let me recap. When we're talking about libido, there's many different factors that an acupuncturist will measure. One is, you know, trauma history. Could it be excess energy stuck in a chakra, stuck in a part of the body that's causing some blocks? Is it, uh, you know, finding out how their periods are responding? Are they regular? Are they heavy? Uh, do you skip them? Are they really short? So on and so forth. Then you are checking the pulse points and the meridians to see if there's any other organs that are affecting what's going on. And then you're getting information about their fatigue and how their energy. Are they, are they stressed out? Are they, are they wanting to sleep all the time? So I've got that understanding right for And then if we segue

Michelle: 21:17

there's a lot more.

Leah: 21:18

now we're taking a look at, at measuring our temperature. Is, I'm sure there's a lot more, but is that, what else would you add and am I

Michelle: 21:26

Yes, you are in the right track, but there's definitely a lot more because it's just, it really depends on the person. So I don't want people thinking like, Oh, you know, it must be just these things. Cause there's so many other aspects to it, but ultimately just to kind of make it really simple, generally speaking, we really try to create balance in the body when the body has that harmony, it naturally self heals. So like technically.

Leah: 23:02

because then there's the nutrition and the herbs and the supplements and

Michelle: 23:06

Exactly. And so like, typically we don't, we're just facilitating an environment for the body to self heal. So technically we're not really healing the body. It's the body healing the body. We're just facilitating an environment where we're removing, like typically this is what it is. You remove the blocks. If there are blocks or you nurture the deficiency, so like people are either, typically you'll find either a combination of these two or one or the other. Some people are just so deficient and they just need tons of nourishment so that their body has enough energy. Sometimes people are really blocked and sometimes that block actually gets in the way of the nourishment. So, then they have Blocks, which is excess and deficiency at the same time. And that's just to kind of make it as simple as possible to understand. Um, but that's typically what you'll find. And then those things can be specific to organs, if that makes sense. So you can kind of like, it's almost like a hologram that you can pretty much look at everything.

Leah: 24:09

To support someone's body getting into balance, at the optimum balance for them to reach their goals, whether that's having more libido or trying to get pregnant, what is the timeline? Like the investment of time to get the body back into optimal shape?

Michelle: 24:25

It number one depends on the person, but as a rule of thumb in general, like just really with fertility in general. It takes about three months for eggs to mature, um, three and a half months for eggs to mature. And it takes about three and a half months for sperm to get produced really from scratch. So it's just the whole process of like that, whatever we're doing for the sperm or for the eggs, it takes about three months for the body to really reflect that. So it takes also time, a couple of months, if you have an irregular cycle. We're going to have to, you know, we're bound by the cycles. We're bound by those 30 days. So it takes like, you have to keep like working with the cycle. Cause that's sort of like the, um, the thing that's leading the way. Yeah. So it basically dictates like everything that we do.

Willow: 25:14

was just going to say, you know, any practitioner, uh, acupuncturist, naturopath, doctor, we just interviewed Dr. Liz Lister for On Hormones. Anyone who's working with the endocrine system and with hormones, the longer you give them, the better. Everyone wants a year, you know, like give me a year with your body.

Michelle: 25:33

Oh yeah. But you're going to scare a lot of people.

Willow: 25:35

conception. But you'll see. Yeah, you'll hear a lot of people and you'll also see a lot of results within that three month time period. So the 90 days is, um, is a really good spot to start with.

Michelle: 25:48

Yeah. And I give, I give that because it's, um, it's, it's the minimum, but that being said, I've had people that have been trying for 5 years come to me and within like a month get pregnant. And I don't know if it's, you know, they just needed that extra something. You can, you can never predict it. You have no idea. And then I've had other people that have come for over a year and I'm even getting impatient for them because I'm like, Oh my God, I really want to make sure this works. And they, they eventually do get pregnant. And have a full term, not just pregnancy, but it's a full term pregnancy because I do also want to mention that it's not, the pregnancy is not as important as the health of the pregnancy because you can get pregnant and miscarry too. So you want to make sure that everything's working towards a good, healthy pregnancy.

Leah: 26:34

So I imagine that this is such a stressful thing, right? Like trying to get pregnant is about, you think it might be sexy, but it ends up being so stressful with like trying to have sex at the best time so that you have the greatest chances. And, and I, I seems like couples really. It can really turn having sex into sort of a chore and it's fraught with a sense of urgency and hope and also disappointment. How do you talk to your patients when they're wrestling with that?

Michelle: 27:11

That is such a good question. I'm so glad that you brought it up because it really is something that some people don't talk about, even though like they tell me everything. It's so personal and it feels almost like they feel like something's wrong with them that they're feeling like this so there's shame around it, but What I always suggest, it's very normal I'm gonna say that too if anybody's hearing this like and and feels that way what you're feeling is so common And it's it's very unlike it's almost Understandable under the circumstance. So what I always recommend is, um, number one, staying present as much as possible. And that can mean doing things that really cause you to stay present or doing like. Some activities that you're just really immersed in that you used to do before, you know, when you met, when you were excited and you met, so bringing yourself back to those moments, but also having sex and being intimate outside of the fertile window and not making it just about the fertile window. Because then it's not about just the frontal window. It's about you guys connecting and then foreplay and like really just connecting as individuals. Yeah.

Leah: 28:26

Yeah, I love that. You know, um, one of the things I saw when, when I was doing some research with you is, uh, you mentioned the second chakra and that there's a connection with creative energy and sexual energy and fertility. Can you say a little bit about that? What's your take on it?

Michelle: 28:46

Yes. I talk about this a lot, actually. Um, so the second chakra is your creativity, but it's also your sexual center and really what is fertility, but the body's creativity. So, connecting with that energy so on the one hand, creativity is on the conception of the mind and fertility is on the conception of the body, but they're still the same thing, just in different realms. So when you're feeding that energy of yourself to One thing that you'll notice is when you're creative, when you get creative, you move away for at least a little time from the analytic aspect of your brain. And that analytic aspect of your brain is what causes you to stress. So when you're getting to this place of like, nothing I can do is wrong, because creativity, you almost have to like, allow yourself to make mistakes. And there is no mistakes, and there's no rules. So it gives you a little bit of freedom in general. And as we know, the fertility journey is stressful. It has a lot of demands. You know, you're constantly being given numbers, which is another analytical aspect. So, and it's, you feel like you're being graded, you're being, you know, there's rules and this and that. And so it's nice just for that aspect to allow yourself to get a little creative and to break free of the rules. And that just personal freedom works on your wellbeing and your mental health, which people need, you know, especially when they're going through something so stressful. And then on top of it, it also just has another added benefit of just getting your, cause you'll start to feel more sexual when you are creative. It just impacts that sort of like, let's get creative in the bed. Yeah, exactly.

Leah: 30:41

right? Yeah, you get, you get juiced up when you're creative, whether you're journaling or painting or going on a bike ride. I mean, there's so many ways to express a sense of freedom and a sense of vitality that is so woven with creativity. That's great advice. And, and I just want to, you know, You know, have the listeners out there, see what that's like, feel that in your body, but especially feel it between your legs. Let that juicy creative energy be felt. See where, how that can be drawn from this life force energy, which is creative in nature. All of this stuff responds in a real incredible energetic field. So I know sometimes people hear the word chakras or energy and they think it's all woo woo, but there's actually some really important. These are all important aspects to how our body operates at optimum level, and the chakras actually have something

Willow: 31:34

Yeah, I mean, the chakras, each one of them ties to one of your glands. And so, you know, as, as Michelle started off our conversation with like, once we get the inflammation cleaned up, once we get the adrenal fatigue cleaned up, once we get the, you know, this or that cleaned up, it frees up your body to be in that creativity, to have more energy to actually, go toward, um, you know, getting frisky and, and, and having more, more exploration, not only in the bedroom, but in your life in general. So it's, um, it's, it's about taking off the layers. I always think of them as like heavy, wet blankets, like let's take off these layers of dampened air energy that's on top of you so that you can act, your true essence can actually come out and shine. And, and in Chinese medicine, sexuality is essence. It's the essence of you. I mean, that's what we are born from. We are born from the essence of two individuals coming together to create this new life that is us. And it's pretty fun to, to play with your essence in a new way. Once you've freed up your energy.

Leah: 32:47

You know, You have to be paying attention to your body. I think especially when you are trying to get pregnant or when you're trying to shift your state, whether that's because you've got adrenal fatigue and you're wiped out and you're exhausted and life just feels hard, um, to battling cancer. You know, whatever the that has you seek out acupuncture, and I wondered if you could elaborate on the importance of body awareness, like being able to track what's happening, how do you pay attention, how do you guide somebody to, to get in touch with their body if they're mostly living in their head?

Michelle: 33:25

I love your questions because

Leah: 33:27

the second chakra, you know, creativity piece.

Michelle: 33:30

yeah, no, I love, I love that you're asking this because it's actually something that I talk to my patients often about. And yes, body awareness is one of the best ways to get to your emotions. So you just can't go directly to your emotion unless you're allowing your emotions to be. You just, I always see it like once the emotion gets activated, then it's almost like trying to stop the wind. You just got to let it move. Trying to stop it or control it. It's just not going to happen. So when you're going through that, one of the easiest ways to really get grounded in the moment is through interoception, body awareness, becoming aware of your body, and that's a practice. And what I found, and I'm curious, Dr. Willow, if you've seen this too, is that when people come into my office and they happen to do yoga or they've meditated or they're connected with their body sensations, and they even tell me that they're feeling the energy moving through their body. Those people respond faster to acupuncture treatments. And I just see this across the board. It's crazy. And I don't know if there's that awareness of that. Like when you, when you make that connection, it's almost like a neuron, like the connection of your awareness to the sensations of your body and having that connect together, I feel like just activates something. And that's why when you're in meditation, you're becoming more aware of your body. Then out off the cushion, like when you're not meditating, you're going to start to become aware of your body when you're in triggering situations. So you're having a conversation rather than getting swept away. You're able to remain present and you're able to stay in your body and feel the sensations that are happening. And by doing so, it almost takes away, it's an easier way to really get in charge of your emotions if that makes sense, when you're really activated. But also another thing that I tend to suggest to a lot of my patients is to become aware of your breath. And that's like a whole other type of body sensation. And what they'll notice, like, what is your breath acting like when you're really stressed out? Is it shallow? Are you stopping your breathing? And then can you increase your breath in and out as you're, as you're just sitting there? And what they're finding, which is really another, a whole other thing is heart math that through breath awareness and control of the breath and breathing through the heart area, you create more, more coherence in your heart and brain. And which is fascinating because we learned that the heart houses the brain and this was considered woo woo, but guess what? It's actually being proven now.

Willow: 36:17

Yeah, this 5, 000 year old wisdom actually has scientific data to it now. I just got back from a Joe Dispenza retreat, which is all

Michelle: 36:25

Oh, I love Joe. I'm going on in January.

Willow: 36:30

Oh, you are? Oh, good for you. You're gonna have an amazing time. So powerful. And, you know, and HeartMath is doing this and a lot of speakers are doing. Neil Donald Welch. I mean, there's a plethora of speakers who are really focusing in on getting the masses into a state of heart brain coherence. And, and yes, when we study Chinese medicine, the word for spirit and heart is shen, and it also houses the mind. So there is that this very strong correlation and connection between the two. And in our work, Michelle, I'm always like, and let's bring in the womb magic too. You know, like, let's bring in that creativity or, or even the clitoris. I have to say that during the, um, retreat, they showed a dissection of the brain. So we were

Michelle: 37:17

Yes, I know exactly what you're talking

Willow: 37:19

strong correlation. And the clit and the pineal gland are a spitting image of each other. They really are. And I've been, you know, teaching people for a long time. Like when you engage your pelvic floor and you stimulate the clitoris, you can see a flashing light in your brain. Like you can feel the pineal gland. So I'm going off on a bit of a tangent right now, but I just got excited by what you were talking

Michelle: 37:42

but it's

Willow: 37:43

And I think that, you know, all of this. Yeah, and it's all part of, like, getting people excited about what's possible inside of their, their health, fertility, vitality, and sexuality. Because they all are coherent, they, when, when they are in coherence, they all tie together.

Michelle: 38:00

So, one thing that I was going to mention is we're talking about that, but then we can't forget about the heart uterus connection as well. And that I always talk about. And then that connection between partners really connecting in that heart level. And then the increase of oxytocin, that sense of connectivity. And so, so just kind of mentioned that as well. Um, as far as books, I'm trying to think,

Leah: 38:25

you say more about

Michelle: 38:26

Oh, the heart uterus connection.

Leah: 38:27

What is the connection? Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking the vagus nerve, but there's probably something more.

Michelle: 38:33

Well, it's a, it's a meridian. That's right. It's a channel. Yeah. It's a deep channel and it's a connection between the heart and the uterus. It's Baomai and it basically, the heart has a very important role and it opens the uterus. And what's interesting is, you know, when they look at the love hormone, oxytocin, it's basically a hormone that is in charge of bonding. And it usually comes stronger, it has a role in opening the uterus. If you think about it, opening the uterus, it causes uterine contractions when a woman's about to have a baby. And so it's, uh, it's one of the things that triggers that nipple stimulation also. So when a woman breastfeeds afterwards that nipple nipple stimulation can contract the uterus back to normal after giving birth. But, it's always, like, the attention's always been on the labor aspect of it. However, it increases, oxytocin increases around, um, as a woman's going to ovulate, it starts to elevate, it increases around ovulation, it increases after orgasm for both men and women, but for women even more, and more so for women, which is why a lot of times women will tend to bond more after having sex, whereas men not as much because they don't have as much. They have a little less. However, like you think about it, I mean, the whole idea is that the heart, which is the area that you feel love and connectivity and connection with people. And then yet, you know, they always talk about the heart opening the uterus. So what does that mean? It means that it opens up for menstruation. It opens up for labor, but it also opens up to allow life in. But it's not something that I guess people have been focusing on as far as studying the oxytocin aspect of it. But it's to me, it is another scientific explanation of what Chinese medicine has been talking about for centuries.

Leah: 42:12

Fascinating, right? It's all so interesting. Um, I'm curious, like, I imagine as people start to work on themselves and are trying to get their system to be at optimal, what, do you ever recommend a book? Do you have favorite books that you like to recommend to your patients?

Michelle: 42:28

know, it's, it's funny cause like, um, I could say like a fertility book and yes, I love, I love all of the fertility books. But there are some books that I feel, um, just energetically can help. Um, and I'm just going to say like the one that's really changed my life, but it was around the time that I was, um, healing my own womb. And it was the power of the subconscious mind that really, really shifted a lot because it taught me how to access my inner workings of my subconscious mind. And it basically was the time around that time when I came and I saw Dr. Li was around the same time and it shifted everything because it was, it really talked about how our subconscious mind. And it really, if you can. If you can connect to that, you can connect to anything. You can connect physiologically, you can find a partner, you can, just like anything. Once I figured that out, I was able to manifest more in my life, but specific things that it's like beyond coincidence. So I know it's not like I'm talking about fertility and I'm saying something that's not really in that genre, but it's just something that I just highly recommend people look into.

Willow: 43:37

I haven't heard of that book, it's called The Power of the Subconscious Mind?

Michelle: 43:42

Yeah, it's an old book. It's by Joseph Murphy and it's an old book. And I remember my mom had the book. I remember recognizing the cover and I was like, I was like, that's so weird. My friend mentioned it. I was like, my mom had this when I was really little. This is like in the seventies. And I was like, this is so weird. So I actually asked my mom, she goes, Oh my God, that like, I did have that book. And it was just, it Another coincidence, but, you know, it's a synchronicity, not coincidence.

Leah: 44:13

Yeah, I think when we become more aware of our unconscious motivations, and then we can start opening the doors to consciousness, it gives us perspective shifts and allows us to look at mindset in a way that Changes how we're looking at the world, changes how we're feeling about ourselves, changes who we're attracting into our life. And sometimes that's just the ticket that ends up leading us to a lot of transformation. So great suggestion. As we start to wrap up this interview, I'm curious, would you tell us about your podcast?

Michelle: 44:45

Thank you so much for asking. Um, so yeah, my podcast is all about fertility, but I interview so many different people like Dr. Willow, like everybody from different perspectives, all the way from like naturopaths to other acupuncturists to nutritionists, and then also intuitives, spirit baby mediums. Like just everything. all walks of life because I love and doctors, medical doctors, I just love getting all the perspectives and it's called the Wholesome Fertility Podcast and it's wholesome. It has, it has the whole, the whole range of everything.

Leah: 45:22

Great, well we'll make sure that we link Dr. Willow's episode in the show notes, including your website and how people can get in touch with

Michelle: 45:29

Well, thank you so much. This is awesome. I love talking to you

Willow: 45:32

Michelle. It's been so fun. Yeah, we've had

Michelle: 45:35

Yes. Thank you.

Leah: 45:37

Alright you guys, thank you so much for tuning in and be sure to stick around for The Dish with Dr. Willow and Leah.

Announcer: 45:45

Now, our favorite part, the dish.

Leah: 45:49

Okay, dish time for Michelle. Um,

Willow: 45:53

fun I love talking with Michelle. I, when I was on her podcast, I think that was, um, that was the first time we met and it was like talking to an old girlfriend. We just yammered away for the whole time. And then I was like, you gotta come be on our podcast now.

Leah: 46:09

Yeah, it's um, fertility is such a painful thing for people. I just have so much compassion and so much relief that I didn't do it.

Willow: 46:19

I know. Yeah. Did you ever get pregnant?

Leah: 46:23

Yeah, uh huh. I got, I got pregnant. Um, in fact, last year, the person who impregnated me, I had an abortion, died. And I was thinking about this, like, I don't know, I was telling Matt about it, or maybe I was telling Pamela, but I said, you know, sometimes I think about, you know, how old my kid would be if I had chosen to go to term, and then their dad dying at a younger age, you know, this kid would have been over 20, done with high school, um,

Willow: 46:55

yeah,

Leah: 46:56

yeah, and just that kind of loss. So I wonder about his existing children because I know he's had a couple of kids with a couple different women. And, um, you know, he had substance abuse issues and, you know, life was, I don't think, easy. And how hard that is on kids. Um, but I really loved this person. He was a really special soul and I feel sad that he's not on the planet anymore.

Willow: 47:23

oh, blessings on his soul. I think you've told me about him before, so. I know I think I would have like a 24 year old or something if I'd had the, the pregnancy that happened to me when I was 19 through rape. So I ended up not having that pregnancy go through. But, um,

Leah: 47:42

19 too.

Willow: 47:43

You were 19 too. Yeah. It's so funny now. I think I'm, you know, I'm about to turn 44 and I'm like, okay, now I kind of want to have, I don't, I don't necessarily want to have my own kid, but I want the family vibes, you know, I'm ready for that. I'm at that point in my life, but I haven't cultivated that. I've cultivated, you know, the freedom and the, the ability to, um, do whatever I want with my time in my life. But, you know, I crave that. Like, having a little girl would be fun, you know, it would just be fun to have like a little,

Leah: 48:18

Yeah, like, I'd like grandkids.

Willow: 48:20

Grandkids! I've always said, somehow I'll figure out how to have grandkids without having the kiddos.

Leah: 48:26

Mm hmm.

Willow: 48:27

But uh, we'll see how that shakes out. But yeah, back to Michelle. I mean, what a wealth of information. What an incredible woman. And I just love that she completely shifted tracks with her career. I have never done that. I've always been on this, you know, holistic health and wellness and Sexuality path since I can remember so I always applaud people who are like, I'm going to do a massive career shift because I feel like I'm at that point right now where I might be doing some massive life shifting. I mean, I'll still do the work that I do in the world,

Leah: 49:03

Yeah. Yeah.

Willow: 49:04

be moving

Leah: 49:06

I mean, as you know, I've, I've contemplated a number of times shifting gears completely and just going, sex is hard to sell.

Willow: 49:15

I know. You would think it would be easy,

Leah: 49:18

Especially when you're not actually literally selling sex, you know, you're selling education. Um, you would think it'd be so easy, right? Like you, you get into this industry and you're like, oh my god, this is gonna be a breeze. Um, so it is, it can be

Willow: 49:33

We get flagged. I think I'm on the flagged of the flagged list, like the double triple flag

Leah: 49:40

yeah, fuck

Willow: 49:41

I put up, fuck those flags. I put up a, a Google ad for just my acupuncture practice and I got flagged You know, it's just like, yeah, just like. I could just like say hey I'm Willow on any platform online and they'd be like flagged. Yeah.

Leah: 49:59

I think the thing that stood out for me in this episode was the piece on Like, you and I often are talking about how, you know, second chakras, creative life force, you know, it's, it's, that piece is very well known to us, but I never really thought about telling someone to start with, with, um, creativity first. I always think of it as, when you get in touch with it, you're going to feel a creative flow and you can harness it and direct it into any sector of your life. But how wonderful, it was very refreshing to go, that's right. You don't have to start with feeling the creativity. You just need to start doing something that brings creativity to your life. So however you like to express yourself. And I think creativity isn't just about artwork. It's about, uh, anything like cooking or, or working on your bicycle. So you can take a bike ride. I don't know. There's so many ways to express it. And I think that can bring you into tune. Yeah. And then you could go to the sex after getting juiced up with something that's creative for you. I

Willow: 51:04

Yeah, well, and there's creativity is fun too, you know,

Leah: 51:08

And it's fun!

Willow: 51:09

there's a fun free flow to it. So it's like most of what we do creatively, if we're doing all of our creativity at work, it's work related. So there's pressure around it. But when we just like, Go hang out and putz around in the garden for an hour. It's like all of a sudden our nervous systems drop into a more creative flow, a more open place where we can allow that sensual sexual energy to float through us with ease.

Leah: 51:36

Yeah, so some of my favorite ways to just jump into creativity is getting flowers and arranging them in a vase,

Willow: 51:42

You're

Leah: 51:43

cooking something yummy, and it's painting a rock.

Willow: 51:46

You are a fantastic rock painter, my dear. One of the best. Oh my god, I have to tell you, I walked past this whole rock garden yesterday, and I thought I was going to take a video for you, but it was like all the people who had passed away, and it was this gar it was like a, like an island. It was like a plant island right on the beach. You know, you walk along the beach, like on the cement, on the sidewalk down in Southern California, and it was just one of those plant islands, and it just had billions of rocks, like millions of rocks. Everyone would

Leah: 52:19

I want to contribute a rock to that.

Willow: 52:22

You could put one out for your friend who would have been the baby daddy. There you

Leah: 52:26

Yeah, I could. I like the idea of like rock bombing a neighborhood where you put all these painted rocks along the street and little kids find them and

Willow: 52:35

Oh, that's so

Leah: 52:36

Um, all right, y'all. Well, this is fun. Have a great day. Love, love, love.

Willow: 52:43

Much love. Ciao.

Announcer: 52:45

Thanks for tuning in. This episode was hosted by Tantric Sex Master Coach and Positive Psychology Facilitator, Leah Piper, as well as by Chinese and Functional Medicine Doctor and Taoist Sexology Teacher, Dr. Willow Brown. Don't forget, your comments, likes, subscribes, and suggestions matter. Let's realize this new world together.