The Sex Reimagined Podcast

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr 2.0: From Awkward to Amazing | The Secret Formula to Transform Your Intimacy Game with Women | #96

• Leah Piper, Dr. Willow Brown, Dr. Nancy Moonstarr • Season 2 • Episode 96

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Sexpert Dr. Nancy Moonstarr returns the SxR podcast to debunk myths around male sexuality and shares her five stages for men to enhance intimacy with their female partners. She takes us along with her as she describes how men can go from conversations to penetration using the power of caring, slowing down, seduction, and mindful communication to create deeply intimate and healing experiences with women. 

DR. MOONSTARR PROVIDES ACTIONABLE INSIGHTS ON:

  • Recognizing and addressing "stoppages" in intimacy
  • Debunking common sexual myths
  • Enhancing communication between partners
  • Building arousal and desire in women
  • Embracing vulnerability and authenticity in relationships

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Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr has been a clinical psychologist for over 50 years, and she's been working primarily with men around intimacy. Specifically she has designed a five step protocol, To move from conversation to penetration.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

This is 2.0 for Dr. Nancy. Excellent. Our first one, I think it's Episode 17. You'll have to go check, really listen to that because we go into her five steps in great detail. Yeah. What I love about this one in particular is we talk about the myths because don't we make so many assumptions? We have all this conditioning that over generalizes what men are, what women are, what we do, what we don't do, you know? And it really just creates judgements and so she does a lot of myth busting and I think that's really valuable. And the other thing I love that she brought to the table in this interview is that men don't actually know how powerful their healing abilities are when it comes to supporting the awakening of their female partners. And I think bringing attention to this is important, especially for our male listeners because I want you to know that you're fucking awesome, so there.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

So tune in, turn on, and fall in love with Dr. Nancy, Dr. Nancy.

Announcer:

Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is shame free and pleasure forward. Let's get into the show.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Well, we are back. It is 2.0 with Dr. Nancy Moonstarr. We're so glad to have you. Welcome

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

Thank you. Thanks for having me on here.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

the last time we sat with you, Nancy, you went over this sort of five stages of what a man can do to move from conversation to penetration. And I thought that was so valuable. Leah and I both were like, wow, what a great protocol for men's brains. because men really like to have something to do. Like, how do I do this? What's the formula? What's the protocol? And I'm wondering how they could use that same protocol since we're sort of orienting our conversation toward healing from sexual shame, trauma and, you know, societal guilt around sexuality. How they could use that same protocol to heal themselves from that and potentially their partners as well.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

Sure. Well, I came up with these five stages because men tended to move to sexual intercourse based on their own pace, and women generally want slower. And so I stepped it down and made it simple. By the way, some men don't really want a protocol, so it's a guide. And do you have to go through it exactly like I say, no, but I give a lot of tips on how to do that. And I like to think of men and women rising together. So men have so much power to help heal the world, help heal the feminine because we know there's been invasions, body invasions, boundary issues, and that's, you know, it's been in the media and that all comes back to intimacy and really good intimacy in doing it right? And so how do you do it in a way that works and is right and is regarding of your partner? So there are stoppages for either side, whether you're a man, woman, Venus, the Mars, however you want to orient yourself and when you have a stoppage it is time to pause and honor that. I typically work with the men holding a space for women because we think more traditionally about women being invaded and having these feelings and these stoppages because they've been hurt. So even a pause for you at any stage, holding her hands, looking into her eyes. And just breathing with her, and I'm here for you. Let's breathe together. If you have a big stoppage, that's a great simple place. There's embraces, one is at the back of the neck and at the center of the back. If you're laying, you're standing whatever position. And if you can pull her closer to you if she has a stoppage, or you can ask to be held that way yourself or just ask to be held vice versa. So this can apply to your partner or to yourself, but it's really great to tune in, tap into those blocks and stoppages. Those are signs that something's happened and something needs to be neutralized or work with acknowledged.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

and will you define for us what you mean by stoppage?

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

A stoppage is when one of you freezes, tenses up, feels you can't go on. You get close, even close to an orgasm, but stop. Get close to getting close, whether it's touch, whether it's sensual touch, neutral touch, sexual touch, and there's some kind of barrier, breakage, breakdown, rupture. And you can feel it. And the way you notice it is something inside you. You know, your partner's not responding you're not responding. All of a sudden you may lose a hard on and you want to go into your body then and learn to breathe and get in touch with what's going on from here down. Because our society's so big on here up and we do a lot of what some people call spiritual bypassing. So when you have a trauma and even motivational speakers will often sort of encourage or maybe misinterpreted to pack it down, just move, push through it, move past. And you may need to do that momentarily because you don't want to just break down on an interview here and start bawling or fall apart. But you do want to come back to addressing. So I'm calling it a stoppage, but it's some type of break that goes on. And the more sensitive you are to your own self and your own body, you will be to your partner.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Yeah.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

Great.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

I love how you defined that and sort of, if I were to language that in my own words, because I've had those experiences where I got overwhelmed and suddenly I've gotten ungrounded. A fear response arises there's this break in trust. Am I okay? What's going, what's happening? It's like suddenly my world sort of zooms in and there's a feeling of panicky, maybe even like fight, flight or freeze for some people, depending on if they're recalling a trauma state or they're things are moving too fast and it's just bringing up a trigger. You know, some people, those triggers can be very subtle. They're not as obvious. For other people, they get really panicky and they, their reaction may be very strong. For reactions that are like more subtle. I imagine that men could get really nervous about missing a cue from their partner. So what are some of the things that you would teach a man to look out for? So he feels confident that he's not going to miss a cue, especially when he knows that his partner's had some sexual trauma and maybe he's nervous about pushing things too fast or, maybe he's just more oblivious. He's never been with a partner that he knows has sexual trauma, and so he doesn't know to be aware. Those are a lot of kind of scenarios I just threw at you, but to keep it simple, what are some of the things that men could feel more confident looking for if they were worried about a partner getting trigger or having a stoppage.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

So I like that you mentioned men get nervous because men do, men have performance anxiety. Men want to do it right. And that's one of the myths that I address, that you know, your partner really doesn't want a porn star with those acrobatics and gyrations. Your partner wants, first of all to be invited into being touched sexually. And then once that happens, then satisfied. And satisfied can mean with or without an orgasm, with or without penetration, with or without an erection, an Ejaculation. We have myths around all of this. And so what I encourage a guy to do is just be himself and work on an exchange. We have a very physical base on sex and I like to add that there can be words to that, not all the way through. Because when you're in the heat of passion, it's hard to talk. It's hard to think,

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Right, right. You don't want a long conversation, no paragraphs.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

Yeah, but it's loaded up in the beginning before you get sexual and in between. And on the afterglow I call it. So after you have finished, whether you've had intercourse, whether you have, but you've completed the sexual segment of time. After glow, hold each other. Milk that moment, take advantage of that and just dreamily experience it together.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

Yeah, that's a really great time to kind of check in and be like, what was your favorite part? What really worked for you? What did you like? You know, after you've just kind of basked in it for a while, then kind of, you know, really relaxedly open up the conversation. And was there anything that you could have been better? You would've liked more?

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

And, and now you just did a huge conversation there, because even if you're in silence and enjoying each other, that's important. And just vocalizing, oh, that felt really good, or it feels wonderful right now. Or something very simple. And the rich conversation that Dr. Willow was going into, I usually like to preserve and save that for in between sexual segments. And so it's great to set up regular chats about sex. We don't naturally do that because we have these mythical ideas that sex just happens and it happens dreamily, or it happens like pornography says.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Or we're uncomfortable with actually giving sexuality words and a voice and to describe things. We can get a little squeamish.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

Yes. And I talk about this in my book, by the way. I'm writing a book about, you know, what goes into then five chapters and then how to communicate about sex. You know, we had the Puritan settle this country. And so generally we have a lot of emphasis on sex procreation. But in today's world, that's not the biggest reason that people have sex. There's, many other reasons. And can we talk about it? And what did your parents tell you about sex? What did their parents teach them about sex? What did you learn in school? And we don't even teach it in school until it's too late, middle school. Now, some European countries like France start in first grade in a hallelujah. So coming back.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Some of those Northern European countries are really way ahead of us in what they're saying and the pleasure forward education that they're including in their sex education. We've got a lot to learn from that of the world.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

And women have been not encouraged to talk about their pleasure, period, in any realm. Women have come from a background of not expressing needs or wants. So for her to even speak about what she wants or needs in the bedroom and then add on top of that she doesn't have the language. If you ask a woman, what do you like in sex? That's like, it's a huge,

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

She might not even know, much less, not have the language. And I think that comes from, you know, these eons of like be seen but not heard, be, you know, beautiful and be had, be owned, but don't be you know, don't be heard. We don't want to hear what's really true for you, what's going on inside. I think over generation then we stopped paying attention to what we actually did want or need. And then now we're, I think we're waking up out of that right now. Women are like, okay, let me figure out what I do like, like what I do want and need, and then learn the language for it and then also learn my partner's language. Like how do I speak to my partner in a way that he can actually hear me? He or she.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

So a guy benefits from knowing that she's not going to find it easy, so he can lead her out and into conversation. That's healing.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Yes. I love that.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

That's huge.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

Yeah. Even just the simple words from your partner, like I like it when you tell me what to do. I like hearing what you want. You know, those simple phrases can go a very long way for a woman.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

Yes. And when you hear your partner say something, anything about sex, if you can say, tell me more, get that going and, because you might be stunned and it might be something that you don't experience or you don't get or you're surprised by. But that's a great beginning. And then you can pick up on these chats. And I like chats on a regular, reliable, predictable basis. Again, we think, oh, we're going to talk about sex, but it doesn't just happen. You really have to bring it in. And I like it in neutral places, like over dinner, a drink, a relaxed moment over looking, gazing at the sunset, you

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Cup of coffee. Yeah. Glass of wine.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

And to bring the tentative person in using words like what was romancing to you, the word romantic. What was sensual? What was enjoyable? What really pleasured you? Rather than saying what was sexy and what if your partner could handle sex and sexy and erotic and go for those terms, but be prepared because our society does this elevation, yet denigration of sex. We're a mix here. So many things, almost everything is sold because it makes you a better sex partner. This alcohol, this car, this truck, this product. And it's not just for women, this is for men. And, yet if we come into being able to talk about sex, and I'll get into a con, you know, somebody will say to me, shhh the people right behind us and I'll be, you know?

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

All thet get hushed at the dinner table in restaurants constantly. They're like, Willow, keep it down over there. I'm like, what?

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

like, Willow's got such a soft voice, just wait till I start talking about it.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

I know, right.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

My voice carries.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

So, getting back to stoppages too, I didn't feel like I went into that too much. You are working with the unconscious, with stoppages. So you were so right to say reaction when there is a reaction and a reaction can be this, can be a flinch, can be a dead, don't go any further for either party. Okay. And when something is strongly reacting, like, oh, I so didn't like what he or she said that, that's a sign. Go into that for yourself. Try to understand what am I reacting to? And if you can notice that or pick that up on yourself and say, I want to share with you that I had a reaction. If you notice in your partner, Hey, you know, kind of noticed you weren't with me and you were, and so if you can use I statements like I'm feeling left out here. I'm feeling, rather than you're not responding or you're, moving too fast, you're moving too slow. You know, making it about I, because we are so sensitive about our sexual relating.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

One of the biggest triggers that we go through as humans and yeah, that real, that N V C non-violent communication, like taking ownership and responsibility as you speak to it. Like, I, like you just said, I am feeling this.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

I'm noticing I'm feeling afraid for some reason, and I know there's nothing to be afraid of, but I'm noticing I'm feeling unsettled. I'm noticing when you touch me like that I get panicky. You know, I'm noticing that I'm tightening up.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

I'm noticing on the.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Yeah. I I want to check this out for a minute.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

And, and on the other side, oh, I noticed that you're not with, you're slowing down. Something's going on. Help me. My mind is thinking that you've been hurt and that you've afraid of something. Let, let's take a moment.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

What about if your partner, if you're noticing they're not present. Like they've just gone and they're somewhere else, so how do you take ownership for that? I'm noticing you're not present right now.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Like, I'm noticing you're not here anymore. Where'd you go?

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

How do you say that?

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

Those are simple things. But the biggest thing is to start noticing it in your mind and go, oh, that they're somewhere else and say, you know, say it, I need to, it seems like you're someplace else. So you say it softly. You're not assured because we really are never inside anybody else. So we can just say what we imagine. My, sense is you've left me. And, that can be because of something that is a stoppage and your partner may not even know they've left. So that's why my second stage, first stage is conversation because you're connecting here first. My second is rituals, because rituals bring, and again, I'm focusing on women. Because women want to be seen and heard for who they are as a being first. So take, bring it here. Plus erotic and sexy is here. Okay.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Amen.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

My second stage is rituals because she's coming from doing it all from a busy world and working and you're bringing her into this general sensitive, interactive realm now because intimacy only happens now and in the present. And I like rituals because it marks us as, Hey, we're starting this very, yes, it's a great transition. And there's a lot, some of them are just breathing. Eye gazing can be very simple. Hand holding, kissing, throwing, kisses to each other. And we were talking about how do you handle these stoppages? So, hey, can we just pause for a minute? I want to hold you. Can we pause and breathe? Because your partner may deny it and say, no, nothing. Say, well. And you might, in your neutral in between chats, say, I really loved it up to this point and for some reason I felt like I dropped it. Or could could you take my hand and show me? And if you were in the midst of it and she's stopped, have her take, where would you put my hand right now on you that you would be able to handle? Where would it be? What would be safe? And let, me just have you guide my hand. Now that might be too much too, because she might never have had that before and say, well, how about I put my hand on top of your hand and you move it on my body? Where you want me to touch on your body?

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

That's a good, that's a good work around.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Yeah. And, what I like about that is curiosity, because one of the things you could do to reassure your partner is I've gotten a little lost and I'm wondering if we could work together and just play for a minute? You know, would you, hold my hand and just move my hand wherever you want to be caressed? And you don't even have to know. We can just experiment, so it's like you don't have to get it right. This is just, we're just being curious and I think there's something about that when we can shift the, because we can get so, we can be so quick to judge. It's kind of like you said, Nancy, there's a defensiveness that can happen really fast. We can jump to a sensitivity that has us tighten up even more and then feel judged and then want to be defensive. But if we can lean into curiosity, it's, I'm really curious about something, if I were to shift my touch over here, I'm curious if that would and so I mean, I guess when I just as I talk this out loud, I'm noticing that there could be a lot of words that could kind of get in the way of people like stepping out of what they're feeling. So do you encourage sounding to sort of give biofeedback, for the partner to know, Hey, we're headed in the right direction, or Hey, we're headed in the wrong direction, so that words don't necessarily get people in trouble. I'm curious how you.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

Yeah. Yeah. We can use too many words. And I like the idea of mmm's and ahs. Those are good signs and nods and not junking up the passion with too much questioning or too much as one of, I heard about one team who said, well, I don't think I'd like being asked all those things through all five stages or something like that. I thought it was great. The mother actually was wise enough to want to show the daughter one of my webinars, and I said, with a parent present. That's a great idea. That's a great and men will be surprised how women will react to them being able to converse and being sensitive that she doesn't know how or will ask general questions about it, What's it like for you? Who's a guy that you admire that he's so the man and he delivers and he's even, you know, juicy somebody you'd want to kiss, but you also admire, who in the public eye would you pick?

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

I, love this one, Nancy, and I want to point this out. So so Nancy, episode 17, I was telling her before we went on air how it, her episode for the podcast is one of our highest rankings. So you got to go check out our first interview with Dr. Nancy episode 17. And, you really pointed this out beautifully, that one of the ways to sort of ease a woman, a partner into some of this is, who's your top three crushes in Hollywood? And what movie was the one that like really kind of opened you when you watched them? Yeah. What turned you on? who's so cute and why? And like, is it their humor? Is it their bod? Is it their eyes? Is it their smile? Like, what is it that kind of trips your trigger? And although it one, shouldn't try to compare themselves to a movie star by any stretch of the imagination. you can. So how does that, it's good information, but how would that help a male partner? What does he do with that information about who her Hollywood crush might be?

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

Well, first of all, like Dr. Willow was saying, you got to get conversation going about it. So you're giving the go ahead and the invite and if you can bring her in, Bravo. Next. If it's a brand new meetup, It opens the conversation because if you are one orientation or another, or you're only vanilla or you want to find that out.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Oh, good.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

If you're into polyamory, whatever style you're in, you want to, those are deal makers of breakers. So you want to find that out or you just are interested in having a sexual, an active sexual relationship. And if your meetup is saying, well I'm really just looking for a friendship, or that's not important to me, or you know, the you want to find out more about that? Because you don't want to spend a lot of time like, oh gosh, you, I'm not into celibacy and I'm not Yeah. you want to make sure that you're getting conversation going. And there's many men who for the first time in however many years they've been with somebody will start this. So start it. Do start a conversation.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Okay. Okay. So what I'm hearing you say is what this whole idea is about, you know, whether that's a book, a movie something that public figure that is alluring to her or someone she finds sexy, or if she could have it all her way, who would she want to go on a date with? It's not so much about getting cues that that's the type of relationship style she wants, or that's the type of,

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

Well, now that's second.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

a conversation started, right? It's

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

Yeah. Yep.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

we're moving in the direction of romance, we're moving in the direction of what titillates you, but not being too literal. Is it? am I on the right track?

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

Well, yeah, you're kind of stepping into it now. I also love that style of conversation, that topic, a movie for ideas in the bedroom. So if you're at the place where you want new ideas and you do not want X-Rated, you don't want triple X rated, you're just not really into porn, either of you or one of you. There's so much content in so many movies even saying like, oh, you know what? Oh he was way too fast on the draw and the first time they had sex. Yeah, in Bridgerton, Man, he dropped the ball that was way too fast. And she was left out of, that's a good conversation. Oh, now he's warming up, you know, seven episodes, seven times they've had sex. Now finally he's kind of coming in and, you know, or Mrs. Maisel.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

It's such a fun way to go about having a sexual conversation.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Yeah, I'm watching Queen Charlotte right now of the Bridgeton series, and I'm like, oh, I have a lot to say about this. What is going on with that king?

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

right,

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

He's so confusing.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

And The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, was pretty milk, you know, vanilla. Well there wasn't a much sex, but there was one really hot scene where she was wearing under clothes. Of course, it was a lot of under clothes because in the sixties we didn't have the skimpy as much, some. And boy was she sexy looking.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Love that.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

But it's, these are safe places to start for those who don't want to go right into the

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

especially for those that are more sexually conservative.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

Yeah.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

There's not a lot of talking about sexuality is a little uncomfortable.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

Especially

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

in the throat here. You know, like ease somebody into it, make it non-threatening. And I think this idea of talking about a show, I mean even humor, right? Like I think you and I, our last episode we're talking about Seinfeld. Like there's some really funny scenes from things that we're all familiar with that really help loosen up a conversation and get us pointed in the right direction.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

Yeah. So, you were kind of hinting, and especially for those who would need to move slowly, which by the way is most people.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Indeed.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

It's true. I know Leah and I

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

to remember

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

live in a world where Yeah, we're like, let's just move it along here.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Yeah. Just Like, who wants to talk anal?

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

And it, but here's another erotic tip. A woman loves to be kept wanting and longing. So if you start really slow, even if it's a many year relationship and you slow it and you back it way down that can be a blast. That can, these tips can work there too.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Yeah, I mean I,

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

Than being wanted as a woman and, when you keep that wanting alive for a longer period of time, it really does prolong that honeymoon phase.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

I build through my five stages, which the third one is touch, and then the fourth is sexual touch, and then penetration is last. You want to build the longing, wanting that she is begging for you, you know, in the right way and to be begging for and.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

And make her beg.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

Tease her until she can't handle it anymore.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

Yes.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

On every level physically with touch, but also spiritually, emotionally as well.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Yeah. So, guys out there I'm going to let you in a little secret and that is, where do you like to be kissed? And then you kiss her cheek and then maybe the corner of her and then the edge of her jaw. And you just go so slow and then watch her body language. Where does she open? Which side of the neck? If you whisper her name in her ear if you blow a hot breath, you know, like the, kiss her collarbone, kiss her shoulder, kiss her jaw, kiss her neck, kiss each eye. I love it when my husband, He does the best nose kiss on the planet. And it just softens me and gets me all gooey and I could just sit there all day and have my nose kissed. So there's like these little things. There's so much to find out. And how charming and delicious is someone, just a pepper kisses all over your face if that's what you like.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

Yeah, there, are many women who are not comfortable with that and not comfortable with touch in general. So there's different approaches to individual. You know, think about each woman that you're with as like its own unique flower. And so this flower has these petals that bend this way and this flower has this scent and this flower is a little bit different over here. So really it's about being curious, like what is going to get her to open, right? What's going to get to breathe deeply to sigh, to open her nervous system and to be in a receptive state.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

Right. And I wanted to mention another myth that guys are overcoming and have a tremendous impact to heal. And by the way, in my book, my third chapter has many myths, some for men, some that apply to women and some to couples. And so this one really affects women that men only want one thing.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

It's not true.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

It's sex.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

So much more.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Boy, were we fed that line.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

Well, but it's still in the collective, still present. So that has to be addressed. And if you hear a hint of it, pause, even if you don't have a word, just pause and take notice of it and see if you can get some discussion about, what do you mean that I only want you for sex? I spent three hours on your computer. I got your printer hooked up. I'm not going to do that for whatever it is. You know, you take that on. Take that on.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Can you say more about that? Can you give us more examples of proving why that's a myth that men only want sex? What else can you point to that help people go, oh, I never thought of it.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

Well, physical is okay in a relationship, and if it's only physical, both men and women can do, it's not sustaining, it doesn't sustain anybody I've ever met, ever been introduced to. It's not enough by itself. And it's not just women, men the same way. And quality men want the whole thing. They want to be your friend. They want to be a companion. Oh, And they are, you are their confidant a confidant. Men don't have guys that they can go to and talk about being hurt being slammed at work, being put down by family members being not communicated to. Men can't go out with guys even to talk about sex. That's rare. I have run into men who have guy friends. They, but women talk to their girlfriends about sex. Yes. And women put relationship in what's going on at the top, top when they get together. And guys are like, well, we watched the game. Well, yeah, we shared beer. And Yeah. He's still dating so and so, or, you know, there'll be conversation, but. to you, you are his confidant and his best friend, his buddy. You're going to do things, you want to, you know, join each, he wants you to come and see him race or whatever he's providing or whatever show he's done. And he wants you to know about his accomplishments and share those and celebrate those.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

He wants to be seen. He wants to be noticed. He wants to be visible. He wants to make you proud. I mean, there's all sorts of things that men show up for in their vulnerability that isn't so overt, but really matters.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

And he wants you to take him on too, where if he says something that doesn't make any sense to you or you disagree with, say something he wants to be spoken to, he wants an equal partner. He doesn't want just somebody who's non-responsive. Yeah.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

To everything? Yeah. What other myths are there?

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

Well, there's a whole list of them, but I'm going to mention a few. For women, men naturally know more than women about sex, and I was sort of alluding to that earlier when she's expressing or talking about sex. So guys and gals start out as kids knowing the same baseline. Neither one knows what they're doing. Guys are supposed to know by the time they're adolescents how to do it. And they're listening to guys who are lying about having sex or

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Or they're watching porn.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

Watching porn and claiming that's what they did. Yeah.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

And the often the popular boys are the ones who have the girls who are having sex with the girl. Okay. It depends because if you're in a faith-based school, that can be different. Or if you're in an all boys, all girl, although so, the idea is she doesn't know either, but she expects him to kind of know more because testosterone is more direct than estrogen and progesterone because testosterone is interested in sex on a regular, reliable, frequent basis more so, and estrogen is more moody and more flowing and more particular and has to have the whole thing right. So men have a bigger visual cortex. They have a bigger sexual processing center. So you do have an edge. You, do have to have sex. I mean, it's very rare a guy doesn't, that's more like a have to. Whereas women is more choice. There are exceptions to both and so if, you understand, you want to educate yourself and if you can understand, help your woman. And if, women and girls can understand, guys need your help. They need you to know you're sitting too close. No, you can't put your hand on my thigh. No, you can't move your chair that close to me. I was sitting in an outdoor seated area drinking an adult beverage and yeah, I was encroached upon. It's something that we need to give voice to, but we don't easily give voice to. It's very difficult for women. We think, oh that's simple. And especially at my age there's things I don't even think to, or I'm you know, hesitant to, or I pause or stunned type thing. So does he know more than women if he's educated himself and at least if he's watched porn. Now women, a lot of women watch porn, so he is got some ideas, but what's left out of porn is that it takes them 45 minutes to get warmed up. I interviewed a porn actor who's very big and explained and also explained about getting an erection and how to maintain, it's all orchestrated. It's not automatic and it doesn't say automatic. And the women in there, most women don't look like the women do in there, and they don't give all those, you know, the Meg Ryan, I want what she's having in that movie. So, understanding that you're both learning and you want to learn together and make this collaborative. Boy that's hot. That's wonderful.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Yeah, I think it goes back to this thing that boys only want one thing, I remember sort of coming of age and it was going, boys are the ones who want it, so they must be the ones who know how to do it. And we look to them to inform us what we should like and what a miseducation all of that is because they don't get any better of an education than girls do. In fact, they get probably more misinformation than anything else. And so to encourage the female listeners out there that it behooves us to go through our own discovery of what is it that we do? Like we have our own map. How can you be more responsible with your own sexual awakening by discovering for yourself your own body, like that's such an invitation. To be in better partnership. I think from a heterosexual standpoint with your partner is if you can know a little bit about what opens you, what turns you on, what delights you, what's romantic? How much time do you love it when someone is, you know, holding your hand versus cresting your face versus making out, versus, you know, touching you with fingers or a mouth. I mean, all these things may be sometimes hard to look at if you're shy, but it'll serve how beautiful your sex life if you've got some self-knowledge.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

We're leaning into the idea that it's a male interpreted and based past to sexual intercourse. And it isn't that you really want to understand. She does respond differently. She needs a warmup. She needs 30 or 45 minutes for coming into this whole idea of you even touching her sexually. And that's not intuitive. That's something you kind of have to

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Gain some skill around.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

And that's another myth that a guy's got to be a porn star. No, she doesn't want, that's a turnoff. If you know everything and if you're just, if you are vulnerable and imperfect, that actually allows her, gives her permission to say, oh,

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

the

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

yeah, like that is so much sexier than any porn star moves you could do. As you being yourself, you being humble, not being a know-it-all. You can still seduce the pants right off of us with your humbleness and your vulnerability and your

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

that's right.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

And your curiosity more so than acting like you have it all figured out.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

absolutely.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

You can be cheaty

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

somebody's like, I got, oh, I got the

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

I got

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

and I got the da, da da da.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

I, got this.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

at my cock size, and

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

right, Right. Because you're always too fast and too hard.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

Yeah, exactly.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

I was going to say, there's great sexiness to Cheaty. Is it on the Good place? Who kind of is like the Clark Kent? As the Clark Kent glasses. Okay. Yeah. And he's got a sexy appeal to him because he is very naive and very like not on top of things.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Well, it's kinda like the Adam Sandler effect now, you know, most of us don't look at Adam Sandler and go, oh God, what a babe. But if you're watching his movie and he's so adorable and charming and funny, there's a Adam Sandler effect has has on women who love someone who's funny, to laugh, who's doesn't mind, kind of making fun of themselves. They're not necessarily making fun of the other to get the laugh. Not, to say that sometimes self depreciation can go overboard, but there is something very charming about sort of the unassuming, funny guy.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

Really good laughter with your lover can feel just as good as an orgasm. We can feel just as good as sex.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

And being close. So another, so another one is if you have to masturbate, a woman's not doing her part or your partner's not there for you, or somehow the partner can feel and take it personally. And it may be that you just need, need to release more often, or you're interested in doing it more often, or you're keeping yourself ready.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Yeah.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

Another falsehood is, porn is wrong and only for degenerates.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

Totally

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

Well, yes, it can be very educational and it happens, it starts very young with boys and it is something that, that men partake of. Most men do.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Yeah.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

I don't if I would call porn educational, but it's definitely a good source can be a good source of inspiration.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

It's very high among nine to 10 year old boys. It is, yeah. It is educational. Yeah. So there's an education because that's what, that's where they're, that's where most are learning about sex.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Yeah, I suppose they're learning, especially what their own desires are. You know, there's this alluring thing of seeing naked breasts and then being able to see what a yoni looks like and you know, all of these things that aren't obvious to a prepubescent boy. Being able to see them, I imagine, kind of helps color in the picture of their desire.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

Well, I think they get images of women's sexual organs and they learn a little bit about and maybe over ooze and all, you know, some look, they're getting something. Of course it's ideally managed by a savvy other, but how many are savvy other to really help with that and feel comfortable and there's a big tendency with parents to feel so uncomfortable with their kids being sexual beings. It's, easier if it's not my kid. I can talk about it and I can bring it, but there's something personal there.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Yeah, there. That is really true. I think both kids are uncomfortable with the idea of their own parents being sexual and, parents are uncomfortable with their kid's sexuality. It's like this really crunchy, awkward sensation for both parties and I find that really interesting.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

I think especially if parents haven't done their own work around their sexuality, like if they're carrying a lot of shame or a lot of guilt, repressed emotions or even sexual trauma that hasn't really been healed, that's going to make conversations with kids a lot harder. Um, Just because you haven't figured out what sexuality is for yourself. So I think that is one of the best things that parents can do to you know, raise healthy, you know, kids around sexuality is do your own work because you're modeling that for others.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Yeah. Speaking of which, Dr. Nancy, what do you think? Two part question. What do you think parents are getting right this day and age regarding informing, educating, supporting kids' sexuality, and what are they getting wrong that if they could correct would really make a difference?

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

Well, the fact that we can even talk about kids being educated with these ideas and Willow was getting into a very rich conversation there and which I like men to also adopt that mindset knowing that he may have a partner, she may have a partner that parents pass something onto the partner because the parents or the partner didn't do their own work around that wound to neutralize it, acknowledge it, tame it, examine it, talk about it, act work with somebody on it. So we're getting some conversations going about what we're doing right. And when I'm on LinkedIn, I see a lot of professionals coaching and sexuality, sexologists, clinical sexologists education around vanilla, kink sex, toys, electronics, the moving into even robots that are providing.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

Yeah.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Yep.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

You know, robotics around sexuality. But, there's a big movement to help those who don't want to talk about it and are finding it difficult to converse about and just what you're doing here, you're influencing people. I mean, there's hundreds and thousands of people who are listening. And then each of us have different products and productions that we've promoted so that thousands of people can be reached and then they'll be working with individuals. So there's thousands more when we move to 10 thousands. But there are books. There used to be, you know, 40 and 50 years ago, it was hard to find a book on childhood sexuality. And 50 years ago, and 60 and 70 years ago, only Dr. Benjamin Spock's book existed and it was called Infantile Sexuality section of that book. And he basically just repeated what Freud taught.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

Mm,

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

was not a hundred percent, but some of Freud's information is accurate.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

yeah.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

since then, starting about 40 years, 40 some, 50 years ago, they're books for children on sexuality. Very simple, very clear pictures, diagrams, understandable words that can be given to kids. And, there are people, professionals who will raise the questions now, not medical folks, because when did a medical doctor last ask you about your sex life and your sexual health?

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Yeah.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

Well I know really great medical doctor, Santa Cruz, CA.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

But, most doctors are not, Yeah. Are not given any education regarding sexuality. It's not even in their educational system. They're not the go-to experts. Even though we tend to give doctors all this credit is knowing all of it. They don't.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

Yeah. You're your best doctor. Really, truly.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's a collaborative approach and yeah. The doc is there to help you like a technician on your car.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

Yeah. Like information, give you information, you got to listen within you got, that's part of sovereignty. We use that term a lot, sexual sovereignty, which is really just like knowing your own sexuality and knowing how to speak up for it, right? Like standing in your own power and your own authentic truth

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Being an advocate for your own pleasure.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

Yeah, around what turns you on and what you enjoy and, and learning how to expand and explore that. But even, you know, along with that, I don't know if it's beyond that, but along with that is having sovereignty for your own health and your own body, your own voice. Having sovereignty for all these places inside of you that that society tells you, you don't have, you know, you don't have choice. And, you should go see a medi a professional to figure out what's true for you. Sometimes we need guidance and help. We need more information. Yeah, we go get it.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

And it'd be, and it's starting, but it's still hard for parents to bring sexual questions to pediatricians. And we are, I have met pediatricians who will thank me for the way I would be open about sexuality.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

Mm-hmm. Me too. Yeah. Yeah. Because I worked with kids a lot for a long time and you know, little girls with constant bladder infections. Okay. What's going on? What's, let's dig a little deeper. Let's ask a few more questions and find out.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

I think there's this really, this under this conditioning that's a part of this subconscious cultural thing that basically says boys are dangerous and girls are in danger. And when it comes to sexuality. So there's this weird preservation of a girl's innocence, of a girl's sexuality. It's basically put the stops on, someone's going to hurt you, take advantage of you. And so do not be you know, pleasure curious. There's this way with which we sort of want to protect shield and hold girls back from exploring their pleasure and their sexuality. And now we sort of paint boys as dangerous, but also they get a lot of green lights that girls don't get. And I'm kind of curious, like, how can we start to shift that to not make it so either in danger or you're dangerous and you have to watch out for yourself.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

Well, I think that's why I've written about these myths in my book. And what we're all doing here is encouraging. Let's talk about them. Because if they stay alive, then they start influencing the way perceptions go in the sexual act, or about sexuality or about gender, non-gender. And this is important to talk about and to face the, this whole realm of, you know, what do we have wrong and what do we have, right? And can I bring this up? Can I take charge of my own sexuality? You know, sovereignty is really taking charge and I can't ever hand that over a hundred percent to anybody. Ever. Okay. But, that's also what makes this realm maybe tricky is because it's a very vulnerable realm for men and women. It's the most vulnerable position to be in, to have an orgasm, whether you're a man or a woman. It's a very soft space.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Yeah, well our psyches are so open at that point of orgasm. I mean, if you want to make a positive impact on your lover's experience of themselves, say something empowering when they're in a state of orgasm because their psyches are way open, you could say, you are so powerful. You are so powerful. And that is going to hit the inside of them in a way that sharing that over dinner will never impact quite the level of during an orgasm. Just like if you were to say something really hurtful during an orgasm, that's also going to be very painful. You would never want to do that to someone's beautiful psyche and self-esteem. And so just know everybody that state of orgasm is so beautiful. It's so precious and it's a white out, so we're not, it's hard to stay completely aware because we really go into this cosmic, the state of meditation that every human being shares is this moment of orgasm. And so I think there's a great responsibility to hold precious that vulnerability, right, Dr. Nancy? Because vulnerable actually translates to woundable. That's why it's so hard to make the choice to be vulnerable, because I'm showing you my guts or I'm wide open. Please be nice. Please hold me gentle in this place.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

Yes, I like the concept that sex is a sacred realm. You know, and that's new for some people and it's new for... I also had a fun exercise at the moment of orgasm because there's so much energy is what you were saying too. I think there's so much energy then if you and your partner set a goal or an idea or something you want to manifest and you hold it at the moment of orgasm, you can do it on when you're solo pleasuring too. There's, a wonderful event that takes place at that moment, erupting and giving energy to that. And sometimes right after it, you'll get like an aha, like on what the next step is on creating that. Or it might come a little later, but it's a way to build and

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

create. I love that.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

create.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

There is a creative balance in the universe that kind of collides together to support this thing you're dreaming awake, and we can be intentional about that does got a lot of juju.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

Sexual energy is the most potent creative life force energy that we have access to, so we can use it to create anything. I want to hear about the next couple stages of your journey. Nancy, so I think we were on stage

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

We're going to sexual touch and then I think penetration.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

So the first three stages, conversation, rituals, and just touch. Touch can be of a few types. There's innocent touch. It's a hug or kiss, a celebratory hug, whatever, high five. And then there's more intentional touch where you're hugging and you're hugging, especially close. And then there's sensual touch where she's working at the counter chopping vegetables and you come up in your full body against her. Or you're spooning and watching a show that's sent, so you're building the whole point is to build up. And, up to that point, you're getting her ready for wanting sexual touch. Because generally a guy won't mind if you just tease him and, grab him in his member dressed undressed, he'll kind of smile or he'll but if you do the same to a woman, she'll flinch or she, it, it, Too much,

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

too fast. Yeah. you gotta

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

right. So you have to build into being able to touch her sexually. And you want her to want to be touched. And so, sexual touch, I actually have four stages in, in four steps in sexual touch. And the beginning is that you're coming towards, I call them neon boundaries around her sexual areas. And up until this point, you don't touch those boundaries. You're coming close, but you do not touch them until she's ready for sexual touch. And then you begin touching the boundaries. You can circle around, you fiddle around, you can feather around. You can use a tongue, you can use a soft piece of fabric, a feather your fingers, your hands. Then you're moving sort of past the boundaries on top of the boundaries over her sexual areas. And back again. So there's a gliding sort of from X-Rated to non X-Rated. And by the way, I use like PG 13 and stuff in my book to explain how to touch or where to where the action is. So you're kind of gliding over and you're building a tease. It's a teasing moment. It's a teasing feeling. If you go directly to and you think she's reacting, that's good. But she may not be ready just because she's lubricated, just because she's seemingly wanting and breathing the right way and awing. So it's gliding over the sexual areas to the other side and then back again. So you're moving back and forth and you've touched the neon boundaries around her sexual areas. You're gliding over top of them, and then you're building up to going into dead center of the breasts, the nipples, the yoni inside the labia and inside the vagina. That's the last, so you're building even in sexual touch. To her being satisfied with your sexual touch and she orgasms a little bit differently than he does. First of all, women can be multiple, orgasmic can be, and everybody can be small orgasms to larger, there's different types, usually internal, inside the vagina and the clitoris are the biggest orgasms for a wo woman. Most women prefer and don't orgasm through penetration. It's harder. So there's a little bit of a myth about mutual orgasm that you can do that. Okay? But either one person does at one point you do, an another. And if you can get her to orgasm before you penetrate, that's fine. That's okay. She may be satisfied. And there's a sort of a deep inner instinct for penetration. And this goes for all orientations. So before you penetrate, you want to make sure that you've built her to a nine. Or a 10 on a 10 wanting you and begging for you to enter her scale. And you can even teach her this, you know? Are you a nine, are you No, I'm in fact I'm back on step two. I'm back on stage two. I really need more touch.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

10 basically signifies the desire for penetration. 10 doesn't actually signify for orgasm. I just want to make sure that distinction.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

Yeah. Different

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

track. Yeah. because we've got different scales, so I don't want to confuse.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

thank, yes, thank you. And yeah, So, it's like fork me, Good Place uses that word because it corrects all your bad language. It's fork me now, you know, that's what the 10 is. Now with orgasm it's not totally under control, under conscious control. It's a building and then it's a rhythmic relaxation. And, undulation and a movement of muscles in such a way that they're contracting and releasing. So once a woman is turned on to a point, just like a guy and, and there is edging where you can take up to that point and stop at a certain point beyond a certain point, you've lost control. And it's basically a non-voluntary control for a woman to become orgasmic. And I don't recommend any system beforehand because you don't want to distract her. You want to make sure that she builds, and then you want, I like the idea of a communication sense of letting you know when she has orgasmed. And it can be a squeeze of your skin, a finger, an appendage, something on you, your leg. So that, because verbal is going to be really difficult for a woman at that point, but it's, but as she's having one or had one Tao. You find your own Yes. System of communication. So in the sexual touch, understanding that's you built up to, that's a building in itself. And then you want her ready. And you may even have her, what you may say to her, well, you put me in when you're ready, or if you want another five minutes, go for it. Let's just do that. Let's just enjoy this. And so she, you're entering at the point that's good for her. And of course guys will say, well, how am I going to stay hard? And how it's a lot, there's a lot going on with a woman down there. You're right, it is a lot to hold your own being turned on and bringing her. But if you don't bring her along with you, it's not going to satisfy.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Right.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

Either of you. And you want her to be satisfied. You want her to remember satisfying sex because the biggest challenge a man has is he wants sex more often. He doesn't get it usually frequently enough, and the reason he doesn't get it is because you're not giving her the sex she wants. Why? Why would, Why would she want sex again if she didn't enjoy it? She wasn't satisfied.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Right. So the key is A, don't panic so much about your erection. It comes back and if you can just relax some of your own performance anxiety regarding your erection, you'll notice that your erection actually stays around a lot longer. It's the anxiety that we surround it with that can be the saboteur.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

Yeah. Yeah

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

If you want to know more about how these five stages really flow and work and how to implement them and integrate them, Dr. Nancy has a free gift for you, and it is her five stages. So tell us more about that.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

All right. I want to add one piece to this erection. So if you do lose an erection, the goal is still satisfying her. You want to satisfy her, men will lose an erection and may not get it back. And you want to, and so my freebie is my cheat sheet on my five stages to intimacy that I just gave a recap on. It's a very simplified version. The book I'm writing, I go into more explicit detail, little kind of like what we're talking about here, giving, filling in the blanks. And in my book I have established a page where you can put your name and email if you want to be alerted to when the book is ready. Now it's not ready, it's going to be later.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

So if you want to be the first to find out when Dr. Nancy's book is going to be available, the soft launch, the hard launch, all those great details. Do we have that link, Nancy, or is that something we need to get from you?

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

Yes, I've given that.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Great. We'll make sure it's in the show notes. We'll make sure you've got access to it. We'll be on the list. So, we hope you will be too. And in the meantime check out that download and get yourself started. And how do you work with people one-on-one? Nancy, do you still offer?

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

I do individual coaching. I also work with couples, and I do a virtual two hours Friday, Saturday, Sunday, taking you through my stages and allowing you to tweak and refine and move through stoppages from conversation to penetration. So that's a separate of two different packages.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Awesome.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

So great. Fantastic.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

so much for

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

being with us.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

us. We love you.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

Yeah.

Dr. Nancy Moonstarr | SxR Guest Sexpert:

Thank you. Same. Same.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

Yeah. Much love.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Yeah. Okay, well until next time, Dr. Moonstarr, thank you so much and everybody love, love, love, love, love.

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Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Okay, it's a very special Dish a Dee Doo Dah, people, because we're together. Yeah, isn't this

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

fun? Yeah, here in Santa Cruz.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

I've come down for a little, uh, quick travel extravaganza. We got to hang at the beach, we got to be at a pool. It was super nice. We had poolside work day, it was super nice. So great. So fun. So lovely. Right

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

over the ocean.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

It

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

was

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

good. I even burned my calf a little bit.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

I definitely got some sun on my chest. And I

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

got to have a cocktail.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

Oh yes. Oh, and then we

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

had a delicious meal. later that evening overlooking the ocean at just, uh, And a scrumptious view with scrumptious food and scrumptious friends.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

It was scrumptious. It was great. So. But we're here to talk about. Dr. Nancy Moonstar. Yeah. Who talks all about the five stages of really dating, it seems like courting to me. Yeah. It's like how do you move from conversation to penetration with a woman, as if you're a man, if you're a penis owner, and um, to do it gracefully, to do it successfully and to do it, uh, with, I don't know, ease?

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

With, with Confidence. With confidence, with also understanding sort of the feminine on a deeper level. Yeah. There's a process, because I think so many men are really hardwired to Need to feel like they're making their lover satisfied or wanting to give them sexual satisfaction and some women really struggle achieving sexual satisfaction.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

Yeah, and it puts a lot of pressure on the woman to perform or to make certain noises or to do a certain thing. Then she's out of her authenticity, which is Snowballs and to him being out of his.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Right and so an avoidance of sex and then you find yourself in sexless Relationships and sexual frustration and like all this drama that happens between partners. Yeah,

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

it's very interesting So her pathway is a way to avoid that.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

She really it matters to her that men feel successful in bed and feel successful at relationships. And giving pleasure to a partner and she's got a lovely method that takes into account that many women like and need a slower process and to really, I think, connect to a woman's mind, her intellect, to understand that in order for her body to get turned on, her mind needs to be turned on, which is why, you know, this whole idea of Conversation to Penetration and, and the type of touch and then just sexual touch. And, and the things that I find fascinating that I want to kind of test out it with my own body, because I'm not so sure about is this piece. She has her own scale. So we teach a, an arousal scale that helps people learn how to edge and increase their pleasure potential using a one to 10 sort of method that helps people track their body and be able to like really elongate, um, their body. Yummy, yummy, yummy arousal. Hers is a little different. Um, you wanna say more about that? Her? Yeah.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

Her arousal is more like checking in around when's it time to penetrate, so, yeah. So, um, and she's like, wait until 10. Yeah. Get, getting that, getting your female partner up to a, a level nine or 10 before getting into penetration. Yeah. Like,

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

she's not really ready until she's at a nine or 10. Which. I mean, ten is still orgasm, so it seems like On our

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

arousal scale. No, on her

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

arousal scale too, I think.

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

I don't think so. I think she's saying that on her A ten is like, oh my god, fuck me now. Like, I want you inside of me now. That's the ten. Really? Okay, well y'all are gonna have to tell us. Y'all have to tell us. After you listen what you think. What's your interpretation? Yeah, because I've been a little like, I don't know, like, I don't That doesn't make sense. If a ten is orgasm on her scale too, then why would he penetrate at ten? Well, I do think it's Maybe she was saying he would penetrate at six.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

Is that what I mean, I could be wrong. Like, I could be wrong. But what I remember is that she's like, yeah, she can have an orgasm, but you don't penetrate her until like A10, which means you might take her all the way to orgasm. Now that's a strategy for a lot of people. They try to give her an orgasm first. Super, super hot, yeah. You know, penetrating. My body in particular is like, I kinda want less. I mean, I love to orgasm without penetration. Don't get me wrong. Like, love that game, but if I'm going to have sex, I don't want to tip over before penetration because I might lose interest. A lot of women are like one and done. They can totally lose interest after they've had a big O. So I'm just afraid, like I notice if I, especially if I have a clitoral orgasm before sex, and I know that I can't really rev up another one. I start thinking about shit. I'm ready to get back on the computer. I'm hungry. I'm always hungry. It's like, I'm more hungry than I'm hungry for this. Like, I already got mine. Which is kind of rude and selfish, but...

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

well, that's it. That's it. This is kind of one of the things that clitoral orgasms will do because it's that high peak and that big drop. Until you learn how to have multiple clitoral orgasms, then it's not really a problem. Yes, which we teach inside of our, uh, Masterclass.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

You can

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

learn all about that.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

So, in which case, then, hey, Nancy's Protocol would totally work for this body. Sure, I'll have a couple before penetration, but there is something, like, really good about, like, And I love to come together. That should never be a goal, but that is really fun. It is

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

very nice.

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

So anyways, let us know what you think. Yeah, let's uh, let's do a little study group. Let's take this conversation to penetration these five steps and let's do some research. Yeah, she's got a book coming out and I believe

Dr. Willow Brown | SxR co-host:

her free gift is also a PDF that kind of lays out these five steps. So test them with your partner or with the person you're courting. Be like, here, try these out on me. Or if you're a man, like, Hey, I'm going to try these out on a woman and let us know, like what, which one of these stages really, really works for you. And which one maybe is like, Oh, I already do that, but now I'm doing it differently. And

Leah Piper | SxR co-host:

yeah, we want to hear your insights. I hope you really loved her busting all these myths. I really love that. Yeah. And, I want to invite you personally to dedicate your body to science. Let's do this research. Let's get in the love lab together. Yeah. All right. See you on the flip side. Love, love, love.

Announcer:

Thanks for tuning in. This episode was hosted by Tantric Sex Master Coach and Positive Psychology Facilitator, Leah Piper, as well as by Chinese and Functional Medicine Doctor and Taoist Sexology Teacher, Dr. Willow Brown. Don't forget, your comments, likes, subscribes, and suggestions matter. Let's realize this new world together.

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Dr. Willow Brown

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Leah Piper

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Dr. Nancy Moonstarr

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