The Sex Reimagined Podcast

Leah & Dr. Willow: Pain or Pleasure? (Part 2) Fill Out This BDSM Form to Find Out | #103

• Leah Piper, Dr. Willow Brown • Season 2 • Episode 103

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In part 2 of our deep dive into BDSM consent & preference forms Leah & Willow dive deep into their personal experiences with BDSM. Willow shares her initial trepidation about psychological kink play, admitting, "I was so afraid to play with the psychological kink for the very first time." But she goes on to describe her first experience as "so fucking profound," revealing the unexpected healing she discovered. Leah, in turn, opens up about her own journey, discussing her surprising fantasies & the paradoxes she's uncovered in her desires. Their honest dialogue illustrates how BDSM can be a powerful tool for self-discovery when approached with intention & openness. Listen to the full episode now for an uncensored look at BDSM consent practices. 

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS

  • They walk listeners through a detailed BDSM preference form, covering everything from orgasm control to aftercare needs.
  • Both hosts share their personal comfort levels with various practices, demonstrating the importance of individual boundaries.
  • They discuss different dom styles and submissive archetypes, helping listeners understand their own desires.
  • The importance of clear communication, consent, & safety is emphasized throughout.

EPISODE LINKS

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Announcer:

Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is shame free and pleasure forward. Let's get into the show.

Leah:

Here we are, Dr. Willow Brown, your Taoist expert here on the Sex Reimagined Podcast. You already know me, Leah Piper. We are coming back to part two of our BDSM preference and consent form exploration. If you haven't listened to part one, I suggest you go do so. And then come back for part two.

Willow:

Absolutely. There's some juicy stuff in there.

Leah:

any, any thoughts, feelings that arose from our first part of the forum that you wanted to comment on before we dig

Willow:

I felt, I felt like excited, you know, I felt like, okay, this is a really good tool for a practitioner to use. And it kind of sets the tone too, for like, this is a professional session and you know, it gets everyone on the same page. In Tantra sessions, we do something, um, We do like an intake form and we have a little, you know, intake session with the person. But even aside from that, we'll sit down and we'll speak out our intentions, our boundaries, our fears, our desires. If y'all have checked out our Tantra Ritual for Men and Women courses, then you know this. It's really a cool way to start. Set the tone for any, um, Tantric ritual that you're doing. And so I think that this really sets the tone for a BDSM

Leah:

In fact, this has all the trappings of a ritual. Um, you know, it's really looking at what's being co created and then you create a container for it and everyone sort of sets their intentions and is prepared to have an experience and you have one person who's holding the space, staying grounded, and in helping someone else shift their system into a different state. and it's really

Willow:

powerful. And it really has like a beginning, a middle, and an end. So there's a whole arc to it. It's, it's kind of, um, like a story. Like I love how when OM teaches it, you know, you're starting with containment to help someone go into a subspace. And then, um, You know, and when I say subspace, basically what I'm saying is like, your nervous system relaxes. So you become more receptive. And then in the end you, you kind of end with that as well. You go through the arc of it and then you end with that containment, which really leaves the person in this place of being able to integrate what they went through with a lot

Leah:

Yeah, absolutely. I love subspace. It's a beautiful state to be in. It feels a bit of like an altered state where you're in deep relaxation and you have greater access to your subconscious, I think, in those states and you get reprieve from the craziness that's outside in the world. That's why people love it. It's because you get to just, oh, you just let everything go. It's like you set everything down at the door. And someone is holding you in such a way that you don't have to attend to all the noise that's around you. The only thing you're attending to is sensation and it's a deeply meditative and powerful Shift in awareness, shift in consciousness. it's similar to meditative states when we go into sort of those zones of just emptying out. yeah, it's quite lovely. It's so relaxing.

Willow:

like a little It's like a little vacation, you know,

Leah:

when you're really tapped into subspace, you actually have the opportunity to fly really high and go to some really cool places. But you can do that because of how grounded you are because of how the Dom holds you and keeps you.

Willow:

Yeah. in, you're tethered in. It's that container that I was speaking to in a podcast episode the other day. It's like the taller that glass is, the higher water can reach. So when someone's in that subspace, like they can really fly very high in that, um, outer realm of consciousness while they're being held and contained and grounded.

Leah:

Yeah. Willow and I were, were, uh, interviewed, uh, yesterday on another podcast and she had this really great metaphor of how the dom is the glass that holds the water. and the water is the sub that is allowing itself to be held and the more the dom is grounded, like the more the glass gets larger and the more that water of the sub gets to fill the glass and it ends up being a place for two people to get really full. And containment is one of those things that helps bring a submissive into their subspace. And that requires the dom to be grounded, to be paying attention. One example that I've heard Om use in many of his dom archetype meditations is the visual of a soldier guarding its perimeter. The soldier has a high level of awareness. It's aware of everything around him. he's prepared to go into action at any moment. their attention isn't split. as the dom continues to bring that energy into him or herself. They can start to go in and let go. And they do that by the dom putting them in various positions, supporting their body through grounding touch. Often times rope will help someone go into subspace because they feel contained in ropes. Ropes is becoming a more fascinating art form to me because you can really see how quickly people will drop into subspace just by having been tied up and I believe it activates a part of the system's felt sense memory of being swaddled as a baby when you feel held and protected. Um, it's very relaxing. Another thing that can put somebody into a feeling of containment is actual position. So there's certain poses that submissives are often asked to go into and when you have that experience repetitiously where the sub in this held position whether they're on their knees or against a wall and they've got their hands clasped in such a way like they call it the box pose where you're grabbing either elbows um there's these various positions they're rather erotic positions, but what it helps the sub to do is to get out of their head because they have to hold the position. And it also gets them to be still. It gets them to be quiet. You're not talking, you're not engaging in conversation, you're not doing the nervous, you know, shallow talk that we tend to do when we're nervous, right? It's like, no, you have to be quiet. You get into this vulnerable position, maybe your ass is in the air, and clasped against a desk and your legs are spread, and then nothing happens. You're just standing there in this vulnerable position. And it's amazing how although that is a position of containment, it can then turn into a position of penetration. And I don't mean like Physical penetration where someone's sticking something inside of you. I'm talking about penetration meaning the energy is penetrating. Meaning there's a penetrative feeling in the pose because it's building anticipation. It's building a sensation of oh my god, what's going to happen next? So it's a very, it's filled with this very interesting duality of I'm dropping into deep relaxation and yet I'm excited. My arousal's going up because what's gonna happen next? And those two things happening at the same time is really cool. It's really hot.

Willow:

you feel altered. Yeah, because we're not accustomed to feeling those two things at the same time. And I like how you just really explained that, that, that that's a position of containment. I hadn't really like caught on to that yet, but like that those, those, Containment doesn't always necessarily be like, I'm holding you tightly, I'm containing you. It could also be like, I'm putting you into a certain, um, uh, position or, or even a certain act. And in that you will feel that sense of containment, that sense of dropping into more receptivity and relaxation.

Leah:

Yeah, I was speaking to someone who I worked with kind of briefly as I was dabbling in some of this and he was like, I just, I just, Like I love being treated as if I'm a chair or a table. Like I'm beneath you. And he was like, I want you to just like text, be on your phone, completely ignore me, but like Use me as a chair, use me as a table, like, put your legs on top of my back, and I can't do anything, like, the whole time. My job is just to be an inanimate object, and I'm like, oh, that's easy, sure. That'd be great! Go ahead, get on all fours!

Willow:

Yeah. Yeah. I

Leah:

So, um, yeah, it's pretty fascinating, fun stuff. Okay, so, um, and then I want to caution you, if you have not listened to episode one, this gets more intense. as we go through the questions. So I really want to encourage you, let's start you off with the less challenging questions first. Like, one of the first questions on the sheet is, what type of touch do you desire? And now we're starting to get into some more heavy duty stuff, so I just want there to be sort of a trigger warning. Please do not start here. if you want to see the form or print the form, it is in the show notes. we, uh, left off on last week's episode with esteem and identity play. We talked about humiliation, verbal degradation, race play, and identity attack and deconstruction. Pretty heavy, interesting, themes there. Next we're going to go to sexual and erotic play I would like to receive. So Willow, our first item here is Orgasm Control, Forced Orgasm on a scale of 0 to 5 5

Willow:

Okay, I don't know what that means, so let's So,

Leah:

yeah, let's go a little deeper. uh, Orgasm Control would be like edging, where someone is like getting you close, getting close, but then they back you away from it. So it's like, they keep on tempting you with your orgasm, but then you can't have it. Or they'll be like, don't you dare come. Don't you dare, you will be punished if your orgasm slips by, better hold off. And then, um, uh, forced orgasm is when someone forces you to have an orgasm. So this can be quite an aggressive type of erotic play where they're forcing you into the orgasm. It's like, you don't get control of your body, I'm controlling your body.

Willow:

both could be really hot, so I have to choose oNe? intense.

Leah:

Um, you, it says, it's not two questions, it's all on one line. So, you would just give me a number. You could circle one and cross off one if there was one you weren't interested in. Like, I love edge play, but I don't know that I would enjoy forced orgasm. If I were the I know my, my inclination is edge play, but I mean the forced orgasm could be a fun experience too. I It could be interesting, Yeah. Yeah,

Willow:

open to trying. Um, so, scale of zero to five? I, okay. Well, there's such different ones. So I would give one of them like a, the edging one I would give a five to, and then forced orgasms I might give a A one or maybe a two too.

Leah:

Okay, and if you are a rebel and you are listening to this episode right now without listening to the first episode, I'm going to give you just a little bit of framework. Um, on this scale of this form, the 0 to 5, 0 means it's off the table, 5 means, Oh yeah, I really desire that. And, um, 0 to 5 can also represent the intensity with which you want the item. And also, Willow is answering these questions based on a dom she has in mind. So her answers might change if she were thinking of a different dom than who she's currently thinking of. So we kind of, we made a placeholder for the dom that she would consider filling out this form

Willow:

I think it's also important to say that um, You know, these are these are up to interpretation, you know, so

Leah:

totally. I'm not an expert in this quite yet, so it's,

Willow:

So like if I let's say i'm working with the dom that I have in mind and even his you know perception or idea of what a five is for you the edging orgasms, what are they called again?

Leah:

Um, uh, it's called Orgasm control or forced orgasm. Like, I could also be mis describing what an orgasm control is. I'm, my,

Willow:

that's your understand?

Leah:

I'm assuming that orgasm control means edge play, because I don't see edge play on here yet.

Willow:

Well, it makes sense. Orgasm control. Like I'm in control of your orgasm and I'm going to, you know, be on the air of the side of not allowing you to have it versus forcing you to have it. Um, so yeah, I think, you know, all these things. So. To say that everything could be left up to interpretation, I'm saying that so that you all know that when you're actually in the scene, you have choice, you have free will, like this form that we're going through is not the be all end all of your, your scene and your experience. You get to say stuff in the middle of the session too. Okay,

Leah:

Okay, so, um, final answer, orgasm control

Willow:

Orgasm control. Five, one.

Leah:

Okay, sexual objectification. Zero to five.

Willow:

Oh, I think it's kind of hot.

Leah:

Yeah, totally. I think it's really

Willow:

I think I'll give it a four.

Leah:

public display.

Willow:

I'm a fan.

Leah:

Me too. God, I have a total exhibitionist in me. I like being a voyeur too. Um, I didn't always though. Being a voyeur used to make me really uncomfortable. No, I don't. A voyeur is when you like seeing people on display,

Willow:

Oh.

Leah:

watching other people do things. It depends

Willow:

on how they're doing it and what they're doing. Like, I've had so many experiences at Burning Man where I'm like, oh, this is like watching art, you know, and then other experiences, same, like, around the corner on the playa, and I'm like, this is just nasty.

Leah:

Right. Kind of grossed out, right. Okay, um, A scale of 0 to 5, being sexually ravished.

Willow:

Oh, five, of course.

Leah:

Okay. Psychological play I would like to receive. Parent, child, and then there's initials here that say DDLG, but I don't know what that stands for.

Willow:

Okay, so I have

Leah:

Oh, maybe it's, uh, Daddy Little Girl.

Willow:

Oh yeah, so I have played with this and it is, um, It has been, so far, a bit uncomfortable. So, so I'm gonna give it like a one, two, maybe at the most.

Leah:

Okay, yeah, I have to say I'm a little kinky in this area. Um, and it is, it doesn't have any reflection on my relationship to my father. Or my mother for that matter. Um, but there is something for me in the psychological play of this particular dynamic that speaks to my need for and desire and turn on for approval.

Willow:

Okay, I

Leah:

so there's an element there of like being told what a good girl you are, what a pretty girl you are. Like there's a lot of kink in that for me that really speaks to this. side that I didn't realize could be sexualized in a really hot way. Um, I think it's very taboo. Uh, and it's understandable that it can be triggering for people because it's so, because you would never want to do harm to like a real child, right? So when you think of like parent child play, we're really playing with these edges and this is why some of this is like there's a yes dynamic and a no dynamic. Um, containment is a big yes dynamic. Penetration might be a no dynamic, depending on how the penetration is coming towards you. Psychological play is very taboo because of how much of it is a no dynamic. Um, so this is where I really want to caution the listener, stay open. This stuff doesn't always mean literal. In fact, very rarely is it literal. Yeah, so keep that in mind. Okay, um, Psychological play I would like to receive, consensual non consent, 0 5,

Willow:

Uh, yeah, like a three.

Leah:

3. Okay, let's, let's parse that apart a little bit. Consensual non consent, very triggering for a lot of people because it implies, you know, for some people they want, you know, They are turned on, often times it comes along with a lot of shame, from like rape scenes. A lot of erotica has a lot of rape scenes in it. And you'd be surprised at what a turn on that is for the reader. Um, if you had told me that there were things that were very rapish, I don't know, 8 years ago, I wouldn't have believed that people got turned on by that. Um, but now I can see in my own exploration of some of my own darker eros and some of the subconscious stuff that's in these other corners of my mind, there are places where actually consensual non consent is actually very hot for me. Um, I have had this, I remember Matt and I were going through security one day and I got like one of those really scary alerts where like all my shit got alerted. And they were like wiping down my laptop and looking through like my monk fruit sweetener and it was and they would wipe it down and it would go through the system and it would alert ding ding ding I'm like oh my god they think I have a bomb. Um and I just had this crazy split second of a fantasy of being strip searched in front of everybody. And it was such a turn on. I was like, I kind of want this to happen. I told Matt and he completely laughed at me and it was like this thing we joked about the whole trip. Um, but like, yeah, like, and I wanted the, the security guard to be really mean, you know, and be rough. Like, I have no choice. I'm about to go to prison for a bomb, you know? Like, I have to cooperate.

Willow:

Well, we know what your next scene is gonna be

Leah:

about. Right? So like, there's like, consensual non consent, and I have another fantasy that tends to be, it's been a go to. Um, God, I hope it's okay that I'm revealing this shit on our podcast. Sometimes I'm like, I wonder if this is going to be the show that goes too far, and I'm going to get like cancelled or something... Um, but there's another one, like I have this scene of, of being, not a little girl, but like, definitely a teenager, an inappropriate age, um, and I'm like at a boarding school, and there's a headmaster, and the headmaster has to make sure I'm clean before I go to bed, so there's like an examination, and I can't say no to the headmaster. Now, if that literally ever happened to me, like, that headmaster would be in a shit ton of trouble. There's no way that I would be silent. You know, like, I would be getting out of that school, my parents would make the call, the lawyers would be called, the cops would be called, like, the whole nine things. But in the safety of my own head, that's a theme of, like, consensual non consent that I find erotic.

Willow:

Uhhuh. What do you about that one?

Leah:

not being a choice. There's an adult who has more power than me.

Willow:

See, you really love the subspace. Like that's

Leah:

I, I

Willow:

much more

Leah:

do. Yeah. I'm a total subby sub. Um, and so I have these, you know, I like the psychological play way more than the impact play, which has more to do with sensation on the skin and on the body. I'm more like, let's fuck with my head. Um, I like, I'm, I'm delighted that that's a turn on for me. It's also kind of surprising and I'm scared what other, how other people will judge me. But the truth of the matter is, if I'm being totally transparent, there's a lot of, I don't know, there's something there.

Willow:

Well, what is it? Like, let's, I want to pause it. Like, what is it

Leah:

I think it comes to, I think it's, I think there's the objectification scene, right? It's like, here I am exposed, I don't have choice. That mean headmaster is putting me in very precarious, vulnerable positions, right, that are very submissive. I don't get to have a voice. I don't get a say. there's a part of the psyche that wants to give up all responsibility. You know, so I can explore desires, but I don't have to be accountable necessarily for those desires because someone's forcing them on them on me.

Willow:

I think that's the beauty of the subspace. It's like, you're not in charge anymore. You give up

Leah:

You're giving that authority to someone else.

Willow:

And it's like, it's a, it's a relaxation, especially I think for, you know, a lot of, Well, I don't know if I want to put genders on this, but a lot of people hold so much together in their lives these days. It's like, between the family and the work and the social environment, plus getting exercise and eating well, you know, it's like there's so much to keep held together. And when you get to go on one of these little trips, one of these little journeys through your own inner psyche, you get this opportunity to like, just let go and surrender.

Leah:

Yeah. And decision fatigue's a real thing. And although I just described two, you know, fantasies of mine, that doesn't necessarily mean that I want to play those two fantasies out in a scene. I'm just being transparent of like what in my head has a turn on value to me. Um, it could be played out in a scene, but. Could not,

Willow:

Yeah, I really like that you just said that. I think that's an important distinction for anyone who's curious about this track of sexuality. It's like, just because it's a fantasy in your mind doesn't mean that you even want to play it out in a, you know, curated situation. Much less real life. Um, but I think

Leah:

Right. And does it mean that I advocated being played out in anyone else's life? Like, obviously those things are illegal.

Willow:

for a reason, yeah.

Leah:

Everyone follow the law, Okay, Yeah.

Willow:

Okay, carry on.

Leah:

Okay, carry on. So, consensual non consent. Fear play.

Willow:

Fear play. Let's go into

Leah:

play. Yeah, that's an interesting one. Um, I don't have a lot of experience or knowledge at all in like really knowing what to say or give examples of that. Um, I, I mean it sounds pretty self explanatory. It's like doing something that really accelerates the adrenaline in someone else. Um,

Willow:

if it would be like, uh, like, like, gun to the head or knife to the throat or that kind of thing?

Leah:

yeah, but I don't know that that's I don't think people play with guns that I'm aware of.

Willow:

Not real guns.

Leah:

Right, right, right, right. I know that like there's knife play and a lot of the knife play that I've seen is like, it's like a wooden knife. It's nothing that is going to break the skin, but it's, but it's pokey. Like the point of the wooden knife has a poke to it, but it doesn't break skin. I actually like the feeling of like knife like Emplements, um, dragging across my skin. I actually find that to be very exhilarating and I'm not someone who likes a lot of sensation, but because that sensation is not sharp, it's more, again, it's more psychological. You have this thing that's shaped as a knife, you know, and someone's pointing it towards your nipple. I don't know, there's something that could be an example of maybe something that's sort of fearful, right? Something that kind of spikes the adrenaline, gets the endorphins running. I

Willow:

I suppose there could also be psychological fear as well. Um I don't know. I'm going to say, like, zero to five on the, on the fear play. It so depends on what it is, but I'm going to start trepidatiously, so I'll give it a, a one.

Leah:

yeah. Like this is one, this is a good one where you really want to ask your dumb what does fear play mean to them? What's on the table? so yeah, weigh in if you know what fear play is. Um, cuckolding or exclusion play.

Willow:

Okay, explain.

Leah:

Okay, so cuckolding is when a man Um, I think there's fem, what, there is a term that's feminine for the feminine, but in this case, um, cock holding is when a man is watching in one form or another their partner like being fucked or being sexual with another man. And normally, it's like that other man may have a bigger cock, maybe a different race, like there's this feeling of like, my woman's about to get satisfied from someone else other than me.

Willow:

And they're satisfied by that.

Leah:

they're being emasculated around

Willow:

And they like that.

Leah:

And many men get major payoff on that. There's a huge, giant kink community all about cuckolding. There's podcasts just about cuckolding. Um,

Willow:

on our

Leah:

yeah. Where this can have a really interesting healing effect is you have men who feel very insecure about the size of their dick. And, and so like they go through the fire of watching someone else fuck their wife with a bigger dick. And so much so that the thing that they're most afraid of is being taunted. You know, like his dick satisfies me so much more than your little prick does, you know, like kind of awful humiliating things. But the payoff is there's something, there's some sort of reward system of like going through that really hard thing that actually ends up being a massive turn on. I don't totally understand it yet. But I find people who, who are willing to go there. Wow, you've got guts.

Willow:

I imagine, you know, it's like we're all afraid to face our biggest fears, like we just resist and try to get away from them at all costs, right? But it's like when you actually do sit down and look at your greatest fear and actually just be with it and experience it, you usually find it's not as gnarly and as bad as your mind made it out to be.

Leah:

true. I think even going through that, that process of actually watching your partner get so pleasured, being able to also experience the pleasure that's happening in the room, facing your deepest, darkest fears. Um, you know, one of the things I've said on this show a number of times is there's something really powerful about fetishizing your fears. And the reward of getting an orgasm at the end. I mean, if we could, if we could dissolve our fears that way, why wouldn't

Willow:

Yeah. Exactly.

Leah:

when you know that at the end there's aftercare. And you're going to be able to process it and be held in that and be celebrated and be respected and all these other things that come with what happens after the fact, you know. I think that's something people don't fully understand is a part of the process.

Willow:

that's a really really important thing to remind everyone about because, you know, it's, it sounds like, well, why would you want to go there? You know, but there, there is, there is so much healing in this. It's really wild. It's really wild.

Leah:

But to also know that your dom is also not a therapist. Like, your dom, your dom's not holding the

Willow:

some are, there are some therapists

Leah:

I've been told to be very cautious about that, is, is to not, as the dom, never try to hold that space. It's way too much responsibility. You should not be treating your dom, nor should the dom hold themselves as a therapist. I, maybe there's people out there that do it, but I've just been told that could get

Willow:

Yeah, I could see that. I could see

Leah:

yeah. so if we just stick with cuckolding for a minute, how would you feel about being a part of a cuckolding space?

Willow:

I mean, if my partner was

Leah:

you were the woman?

Willow:

me getting fucked by a guy with a bigger dick, yeah, I'd be down.

Leah:

Okay, what number would you would you give

Willow:

Sure, let me help you out there, partner. Um, I would give that a four.

Leah:

Okay, and I would be very like, if this were like a real life thing with me and Matt, I'd be like, oh geez Can I handle the fallout?

Willow:

Uh, yeah, you would

Leah:

I would be really questioning, like, he says he wants this, but what if he can't come back

Willow:

and so that would be your fear that you

Leah:

That'd be my fear. Yeah, yeah. So that would make me probably say like a one or a two, because I would need a lot of reassurance. And I would need to go really

Willow:

yeah. Yeah,

Leah:

Like, there probably wouldn't be any sex on the table.

Willow:

Yeah, I mean and and you have a a solid husband in mind here and

Leah:

Yeah. I have a lot to risk, because there's someone real. Right, right, right. right, right.

Willow:

might have a different answer, you know if I was married too So

Leah:

there's a, the next one is exclusion play, and exclusion play, I think, has a lot of breakthrough potential around jealousy. Because what these scenes look like is the person who's so overcome with jealousy, that's been in so much pain for being the jealous person, is the person who's being excluded. And so there's multiple people in this scene, and it could be a group of people, it could be two other people, but you're basically being left out. And basically being told, uh, because you're not good enough. You're not worthy enough, you're not hot enough, you're not skinny enough. Like, all the things that we just, it's horrifying, right? The things that we're so afraid of. Someone is better looking, they'll fall in love with someone else. Like, that all gets played up in the scene. So, zero to five, how do you feel about exclusion play?

Willow:

um, okay. I You Like, as the subject of like, I want to be the one excluded,

Leah:

you would be the one excluded.

Willow:

gosh, I really don't like being excluded.

Leah:

Yeah, it's a really awful feeling.

Willow:

Uh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go trepidatious on that one. I mean, I would be curious about it, but I'll give it like a one, two, maybe at the most.

Leah:

Now, and I've sort of explored, I've never done a scene with this, but I've talked about it. And, and so like the spirit of the sub is coming from a place of staying in total, pure, submissive archetype, which is I am of service. And what, so you guys, you know, they'll say, we're going out to dinner, but you have to stay here. I will get the room ready for when you come back.

Willow:

Uh, okay, okay.

Leah:

Yeah, I will be waiting for you when you get back, you can use me as a stool.

Willow:

also, you're

Leah:

Yes, yes, I will, I will fold your clothing as you ravish her, you know.

Willow:

mine down to a one, no, two

Leah:

Okay, okay,

Willow:

I might try

Leah:

But I thought that was actually very compelling. It's like That was the part that was compelling to me is I'm gonna stay right here and try to stay in like this authentic, loving, submissive pose of total humbleness, of not taking my love away, of staying in the spirit of like total service to these other two people. I was like, there's something that soothes the fear here. Of the part that doesn't want to be left out. Now there's all the other things that arise, like being a doormat, you know, that, that like my modern woman comes up and wants to have like a total tantrum over. Um, so that's interesting. All right. Next is feeling punished and used.

Willow:

Feeling punished and used. Hmm, I would say probably a one.

Leah:

Okay. Really? Okay.

Willow:

I, yeah, I'm gonna go trepidatious on some of these things because I haven't experienced them. And to be honest, I was so afraid to play with the psychological kink for the very first time, and then the very first time I did it, like, whoa, it was so fucking profound, I couldn't believe, like, what healed in my psyche, in my mind, in my heart, in my body, and so, you know, I think it's fine to, if you haven't experienced these things, go

Leah:

Yeah. Go light. A thousand percent. Great. Absolutely. Couldn't agree with you more. Um, I like feeling used. Feeling punished. I would separate those two. They're not separated on here, but I'd have two different

Willow:

Yeah, I think I might, too.

Leah:

Um, okay. Sensation play I would like to receive. Rabbit fur.

Willow:

Yes, please. Five.

Leah:

Do you know what a pinwheel

Willow:

Yeah, I like those.

Leah:

Do you?

Willow:

I'd give it a three.

Leah:

Okay, I'm not a fan. Um, they're like these little metal, it's a little metal wand with a little, a round disc that's got spikes on it

Willow:

yeah. To me it feels good, it's like acupuncture. Stimulates the, brings the blood flow up to the surface.

Leah:

Oh, interesting. Okay, that's cool to know that connection.

Willow:

Moves stagnation.

Leah:

Knife play, and in parentheses it says no cutting.

Willow:

Okay, I would do a Yeah, like, I'll go trepidatious with a three on that.

Leah:

You would do a three on that. Yeah. I'm, um, yeah, cool. That's brave of you. Um, yeah, yeah. Nipple clamps. Have you ever nipple clamps?

Willow:

Yeah, I mean, I'd have to get warmed up to some good nipple clamps, but uh, when I get warmed up, I'm like, yeah, hit them hard. So maybe like a, still in the three realm because I have super sensitive nipples. Oh, Um, next is somatic edge play I would like to receive. So, breath play. Do you know what that is? That's a really high gradient type of play. You'd have to work with someone with a lot of experience, a lot of safety awareness. Um, that's when like someone constricts your ability to breathe. I actually really So it's not just choking, it's like taking your Yeah. Actually quite enjoyed that. So I would give that like a four.

Leah:

Okay, um, what about choking?

Willow:

Yeah. I like it. Four.

Leah:

Yeah, I like choking too. Didn't know I would. That

Willow:

I'm like always grabbing whoever I'm with their hand like it's squeeze a little more

Leah:

Right, right, right. right. I know a lot of women who are like, Come on, give it to me. How about gagging?

Willow:

I have not tried that so I don't know I'm gonna just go with the one

Leah:

Okay. I have tried a ball gag once.

Willow:

The Bial gag

Leah:

Biaalll gag. Um, it's about how I feel about it. Um, yeah. Ball gag,

Willow:

um, you weren't a fan? I just having my mouth

Leah:

but I had to describe them to a, from a Dom that was like, there's something so hot about a woman who's willing to sacrifice her vanity for something like this. It's like, you know, your makeup is melting. you got tears running, you got drool all down your chin. Like to me, that is just so repulsive. Like it's just everything in my system is like no thanks. Nor do I want to choke on anything, and he's like, yeah, but you have no idea like how hot it is. When a woman will sacrifice that.

Willow:

You know what, for me, the ball gang is like, like I feel like if my mouth is like wedged open for too long, I'm gonna get some kind of like TMJ contraction in my, I just don't want that.

Leah:

And it just reminds me of a pig with an apple in its mouth. And like, that is just another thing that's just sort of a turn off for me, but I'm really trying to stay open minded, to go this is a real, people are really into this. And he was saying something that there's some sort of Tantric relationship to

Willow:

it. Oh, for sure.

Leah:

There's something about having your throat open...

Willow:

You're getting that vagal nerve. And that even drops you even more into that receptive subspace. You've tried it once. Now, what was your experience with it? You didn't love it?

Leah:

So it's like even though I really have an aversion to it, I really want to stretch myself in that department because I want to know that deeper. I only tried it once. Yeah, I didn't, didn't love it? And it was a small ball and everything. I think there was just too much energy around it. So it was like, okay, that was my first time. I might need to go deeper into subspace before I could really surrender to its, to what's, what's, what the potential of it is. I would love to come from a dropping the ego piece and allowing myself to let go of vanity. Because I know that that's the part that I have an aversion

Willow:

Oh, see, I'm fine with that part. I don't mind the drool in the makeup. It's like, I just don't want my jaw to go into it.

Leah:

I don't want my jaw to hurt either.

Willow:

So, um, but I, you know, I'm open to trying it. It's not something that I'm like, Oh my God, I want to try that. It's more just like, okay, yeah, I'd be open to experiment, experimenting. Now what about pain on a scale of 0 to 5? like, a heavier hand. I mean, I'm super energetic on the, you know, on the, um, blueprint scale. Super energetic and sensual, so, I mean, I think I must be a shapeshifter, though, because I can just rock it all. I like, um, to be kind of, you know, thrown around and spanked

Leah:

Well, one of the things that Om has shared with me, he goes, the people that I know go the deepest in subspace and can take the most amount of pain, masochist wise, are always leavers. The schizoid pattern type. Yes, and I can see it in class. The ones that run skits are like, they fly. It's like someone is holding the ground for them, and they look so beautiful in the depth of the intensity that they can have. Because it's like someone's holding them in their body, and having that being held, they just, phew. They go out, their whole body is shaking. It's wild, the impact that they can absorb. I'm just shocked.

Willow:

Yeah,

Leah:

And I think it's because they're so safe for them somehow. It feels like such a paradox, honestly.

Willow:

That's what's happened for me when I'm feeling really safe with the dominant partner and they're just kind of having in their way. It feels like a massage. Honestly, it feels good. It feels like oh, yeah It's just so stimulating to the skin. I mean, you know, I'm a Chinese medicine person. So I'm like cut me harder. You know gua sha that inner thigh like let's get rid of this stagnation and let's get rid of the the stuck energy in the body I mean you can do any that so many multiple

Leah:

ways. Right. And you have got a strong discipline for those things too, so you do hard things. For the sake of, like, long term improvement. And I'm like, I'm like short term pain. Fuck long term improvement. Okay, um, pain plus pleasure. What would be your scale for wanting to explore the combination of that?

Willow:

Oh, them at the same time. Yeah, I'd be very curious more to do that more. I'm gonna have some, but I would give that a three, four.

Leah:

um, next is being spit or pissed on.

Willow:

I'm gonna have to say zero.

Leah:

sure,

Willow:

No, you know,

Leah:

No

Willow:

if that's your thing, God

Leah:

yeah. Um, sex and penetration I would like to receive from my dom. So the first item on here is caressing, stroking, cock, or pussy.

Willow:

Well, with the Dom I have in mind, I'll give it a five.

Leah:

Next one is vaginal penetration by fingers.

Willow:

Five.

Leah:

Next one, anal penetration by fingers.

Willow:

Five.

Leah:

Next one, vaginal penetration by vibrators.

Willow:

Five.

Leah:

Next, anal penetration by butt plug or dildo.

Willow:

Three.

Leah:

Next, vaginal penetration by cock.

Willow:

Five.

Leah:

Next, anal penetration by cock.

Willow:

Mmm. One.

Leah:

Next, cock sucking, pussy licking.

Willow:

Five.

Leah:

Next, face fucking. Mmm. For those of you who don't know what I mean by that, it's like fellatio. So the dom would be fucking the face of the sup.

Willow:

Yeah, it just depends on the position, but if my neck feels fine, three?

Leah:

You can always safe word. Mm Dom style and temperament I would like to receive. Stern and strict.

Willow:

Mmm. Uh, are there more

Leah:

options? Yes, but this is the one to is first one.

Willow:

Stern and strict. Uh, three.

Leah:

Okay, warm and quiet.

Willow:

Um, I kind of like that. I'll give that. a five.

Leah:

Mischievous trickster.

Willow:

Five.

Leah:

Punishing and sadistic.

Willow:

Four.

Leah:

Shaman transpersonal.

Willow:

Ooh, five. I knew you'd score a five that Um, okay, archetypical expression. My submissive loves to be told what to do, Zero to five. So, me as a submissive what to do, Um, Three. Um, I love to be controlled sexually. Zero to five. Three?

Leah:

I love to hear good girl or good boy.

Willow:

I hate that, actually.

Leah:

Okay, zero. I love that, Um,

Willow:

like being called girl. It's a weird thing for me. Like, even when people, like, friends are like, hey girl, I'm like, don't fucking call me girl. Yeah, so, I must have had some kind of experience that I don't remember when I was young, you

Leah:

Yeah, you're like, treat me like an adult.

Willow:

Fuck you

Leah:

I really, that would have bothered me as a kid, but as an adult I like it. Um, okay, uh, my submissive loves meaning I love to be sexually used.

Willow:

Three.

Leah:

I love to be punished.

Willow:

Three.

Leah:

I love to serve.

Willow:

Two.

Leah:

I love to be in protocol etiquette. And just to give a brief explanation of that, we don't have time in this episode. But like, protocol and etiquette is a certain way that a submissive is expected to behave. And there are strict protocol lines that some doms prefer. They want kind of like perfection. And doms who kind of like a little brat who keeps on breaking the rules of protocol. So that they can be punished.

Willow:

Yeah, two.

Leah:

Okay. Um I love to please my dom.

Willow:

It is fun. I'm giving it a four.

Leah:

It's interesting. I love to be a good girl. Um, but I don't necessarily love to please my dom. Isn't that

Willow:

it is interesting the questions as we're getting into them a little bit more and like, you're like, wait, did I just contradict

Leah:

Right. Like, I have mixed feelings about this one. Even though, like, I would give a five to being a good girl.

Willow:

I think I just,

Leah:

I would probably give a one to wanting to please my dumb.

Willow:

Not

Leah:

I'd so, this probably says a lot of weird shit about me. Alright, but we don't judge, we celebrate. Um, we look deeper actually. These are wonderful reasons to look deeper and to sort of explore the paradoxes within us and see what needs to be questioned, what needs to be evaluated. That's why I'm interested in this. Okay, I love to receive physical pain. One, zero to Five.

Willow:

Three.

Leah:

I love to receive emotional pain, Zero. to Five.

Willow:

Zero.

Leah:

I love to be in devotion.

Willow:

Five.

Leah:

Now I can do devotion to my dom, but to please my dom, there's something that really rankles with that one, so really interesting things to look at there. Okay, aftercare. My preferred form of aftercare is first one, receiving physical comfort, zero to five.

Willow:

Yeah. five.

Leah:

Um, my preferred form of aftercare is having alone time, zero to five.

Willow:

One.

Leah:

My preferred form of aftercare is talking and processing.

Willow:

Three.

Leah:

I like aftercare to last how many minutes? Five, ten, fifteen, twenty.

Willow:

Twenty.

Leah:

I thought, I really thought this was interesting and to me my answers would change depending on who the dom was.

Willow:

That's true. Yeah. For sure.

Leah:

Like if it was Matt, definitely physical comfort.

Willow:

Yeah.

Leah:

But otherwise, I want to be alone or I may want to talk and process after being alone.

Willow:

Oh. You want to be alone? Okay.

Leah:

I do, I do. I want to be in my own Yeah. being of what I just went through. Um, I might be having a contraction, and sometimes I want to experience that first by myself without the presence of someone else. Sometimes I just need to be in that or sometimes I'm like really like still and I just want to be, I want to integrate that on my own without having to be outside. Sometimes I just need a little bit of that, like I want no attention on my nervous system.

Willow:

Yeah, interesting.

Leah:

Um, all right, sensual pleasure I would like to give my dom. So here's the submissive in giving mode. There are times when it's appropriate and necessary for the submissive to pour into their dom. Because if all a dom does is serve without ever being given to, they will also go on burnout. and they're, they won't be able to show up in their best dom. So there are times when you can't just expect a dom to just pour into you endlessly with you never pouring back into the dom. That's a whole thing. Um, so if you wanted to pour back into your dom the sensual pleasure you would want to give this particular dom, um, willow, and this would be a yes or no answer, massage and pamper my dom's feet with my hands and or mouth.

Willow:

Hmmm... Yes.

Leah:

Give my dom a soothing massage.

Willow:

Yes.

Leah:

Give my dom a body to body sensual massage.

Willow:

Yes.

Leah:

Dance sensualistly or sing for my dom's pleasure.

Willow:

Yes.

Leah:

Okay, sexual pleasure I would like to give to my dom. Stroke massage my dom's cock or pussy.

Willow:

Yes.

Leah:

Suck my dom's cock or pussy.

Willow:

Yes.

Leah:

Lick and worship my dom's asshole.

Willow:

No.

Leah:

okay. then in both these categories, I should have also mentioned that there is an other category and you can write what you are open to in case any of those things aren't a match.

Willow:

Okay.

Leah:

Submissive's protocol, etiquette, and safe words during scene. The submissive will embody their archetype throughout the scene from beginning to end. This is something you would sign at the back of the page. Submissive will address their dom by title at all times. Submissive will maintain golden silence and stillness and postures as their default position throughout scene. Submissive will speak in requests, suggestions, and desires never directly directing their dom's actions. Submissive safe words are green, yellow, red. Green equals all good. Yellow equals pause scene. Red equals scene over. So in this form, this is the expectation of how a submissive will, um, present and how they will carry themselves throughout the scene. Now the submissive ethos is as follows. Submissives will enter the scene, this scene, for a deeper expression of their submissive archetype. They will leave their other archetypes out. Submissive will embody their three masteries of formality, devotion, and service. Submissives will receive their dom's energy with graciousness. Submissive will diligently balance the energy they receive from their dom by reciprocating and pouring back into their dom. Submissive will enter with a desire to surrender to their dom and to have their dom win with them. I think that last one's really important. Mm. Here are some yes and no's. Submissive's psychological characteristics relevant to a DS scene, play, and dynamic. Submissive's Willow, do you tend to go into a freeze state during high sensation or overwhelm?

Willow:

Freeze state meaning like, out of, what does

Leah:

A freeze state or disassociation.

Willow:

Oh. Um, no.

Leah:

Okay, um, are you carrying processing trauma from your past?

Willow:

No.

Leah:

Can you be counted on to call

Willow:

That's not true. I mean, emotional trauma.

Leah:

Yes. then yes. Can you be counted on to call your safe words and boundaries in real time?

Willow:

Yes.

Leah:

Do you tend to re evaluate your consent or decisions after the fact?

Willow:

Yes.

Leah:

So you tend to re evaluate your consent and decisions, going, Oh, I wish I wish I hadn't consented to that.

Willow:

I don't know. I don't think I have enough experience to say or no. But I do change my mind a lot.

Leah:

Okay.

Willow:

That's why I'm saying yes.

Leah:

Are you carrying a strong victimhood identity?

Willow:

No.

Leah:

Do you feel well resourced to deal with any emotions that may arise post scene?

Willow:

Yes.

Leah:

Okay, so these are really important questions that would convey to the Dom whether they want to work with any of this.

Willow:

Mmm. because they might go through this whole thing and be like, Uh, let me refer you out.

Leah:

Right, because there's such thing as called like a delayed rupture. Where someone has a great scene, they have a wonderful breakthrough, they're super happy, aftercare goes great, and two or three days later, they're pissed, they feel victimized, they feel like that they did something wrong, something's bubbling up, and they go to, and they go to blaming instead of taking responsibility for whatever's coming up in the subconscious. And I, I would be hesitant to want to play with somebody who has that habit.

Willow:

For sure. Absolutely.

Leah:

Okay. Now post scene connection expectations and desires. I would like our container to close at the end of our current scene. Yes or no?

Willow:

Yes.

Leah:

I want my dom to check in with me day after our scene. Yes or no?

Willow:

Yes.

Leah:

I want my dom to be available for extended processing if something comes up for me after scene.

Willow:

Yes.

Leah:

I would like an ongoing friendship and dynamic aside from our scene play and scene dates.

Willow:

Yes.

Leah:

Okay, and then, um, there's a, any health conditions pertinent to BDSM scenes that you would answer. Psychological conditions pertinent to BDSM scenes you would answer. And then there's a consent and waiver. I test that I'm engaging in any and all aspects of BDSM of my own free will and for my own pleasure and enhancement. I certify that I am over the age of sexual consent. I take full responsibility for all of my emotions that may arise during and after the scene. And then you would date and signature.

Willow:

Cool, I love it. I think this consent form is gold.

Leah:

Yeah.

Willow:

It really, like, it really, like, I would feel so safe and so on the same page as my Dom going into a scene after that extremely thorough evaluation.

Leah:

Right, And um, and with all the things that you said yes to and that you gave numbers to, a tiny fraction is what would actually go into the scene.

Willow:

Right, not all of that is You're flogged and choked and tied up and psychologically humilated

Leah:

flogged, and spanked, caned, and, you know, it's just like no one's got time for that. It's like, it's just, it's a habit of exploring your desires. It's a habit of, of seeing where you're at in the moment. And then that gives the Dom all this beautiful fodder to create an experience for you. That they then get out of their own way for. So it's like they open themselves up to the archetype of the Dom. And you have two souls that are interacting in the spirit of what is going to most open someone system. And sometimes that's not an orgasm. Not everything, you know, sometimes it's a cathartic release. Sometimes it's just peace and it's Not about pleasure.

Willow:

Yeah, sometimes it's just about like playing out something that's repeated in your life so that you don't feel so connected to it. You have a little bit more space from it. Um, one thing I want to say about this consent form too for everyone listening, if you do go down this road, is this is your consent form so you can take it into your relationship with the next Dom or, you know. So, and you can tweak it from session to session and, and kind of like keep it and you know, it's like a little, you don't have to redo the whole thing every time, but just, you know, use color codes. Session two, okay, now I'm at a level four for this. I was at a level one before, you know, and session two, you mark it in red. Session one

Leah:

Though OM would probably have you fill out a new one every time. Yeah. But I mean, I, I mean, essentially you could do that.

Willow:

You could do that and I just think, cause, you know, it takes a long time to fill It

Leah:

It is! It's very laborious, I have to say. Um, and so, there are times when I just go, I'm not doing anything on the second section. I'm focusing on these three categories.

Willow:

Just these three. Yeah. Well, that's great.

Leah:

Especially with someone who you're, you're just sort of feeling, and, and that's actually what I want to do as a practicing dom. It's like, let's just focus on these three categories. That way I don't have to even put my attention on the rest of this that I'm not even ready to explore as a dom, being a baby dom right now. Um. Yeah. Which is really interesting. this just really gets a lot of things out. you really start thinking. I mean, just even in this conversation, we're starting to connect the dots to weird places and paradoxes and these other things. So I feel like every time you can kind of process this out loud, you reveal more parts of yourself that you haven't been conscious of before, which is, I think, in the consciousness space, really cool to see and feel into. So thanks!

Willow:

Yeah, thanks everyone! Let us know what you think about these conversations that we're having and what we are exploring our edges around sexuality. Uh, cause we're openly sharing it with you. Very vulnerably, very openly. we would love to know, um, what your thoughts are.

Leah:

what's your experience?

Willow:

And even if it's like, I think this is a bunch of hoo ha, and I wish you guys would go back to your Tantra sacred sexuality. We promise we're not letting that go.

Leah:

no, no.

Willow:

We could never, because it's ingrained in us. So, it's just, we're just, adding more, you know, more to the fire

Leah:

Yeah, we're looking for ways to make sex dirty because we know how to make sex beautiful. How do we have all of it? And we want to just make sure that we are covering wide ranges of the sexuality landscape. So if you are a pro dom or a pro sub, please reach out to us. We'd love to have you on the show. We want to get like a lot of other opinions and people who do this work and more definitions of what all this stuff is. Because we're just scratching the surface. So, um, hope you have a beautiful day, evening, or morning. Please stay tuned. Next week we'll have a whole new episode. And we send you so much love, love, love, love, love.

Willow:

Love. Bye, everyone.

Announcer:

Thanks for tuning in. This episode was hosted by Tantric Sex Master Coach and Positive Psychology Facilitator, Leah Piper, as well as by Chinese and Functional Medicine Doctor and Taoist Sexology Teacher, Dr. Willow Brown. Don't forget, your comments, likes, subscribes, and suggestions matter. Let's realize this new world together.

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Leah Piper

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