Whine & Dine
Toxic Relationships
Join Robbie as he shares his personal journey growing up gay in a conservative evangelical family of ten, facing bullying in North Carolina, and moving to the UK at 19. Hear about his coming out, the fallout with his family, and his thoughts on relationships, technology's impact on connection, and the importance of respect and commitment. This episode reflects our times and the resilience in seeking truth, love, and acceptance.
Join Robbie as he shares his personal journey growing up gay in a conservative evangelical family of ten, facing bullying in North Carolina, and moving to the UK at 19. Hear about his coming out, the fallout with his family, and his thoughts on relationships, technology's impact on connection, and the importance of respect and commitment. This episode reflects our times and the resilience in seeking truth, love, and acceptance.
Hi Robbie, how are you doing?
Speaker 2:I'm pretty good, thanks, how are you?
Speaker 1:I'm good. I'm actually excited that you're here.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you, I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 1:You came to my lovely, humble home.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's nice to be here. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's about time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know it's been. We've been friends for a couple of months now, yeah it's been a while. It's been a while and I've not been here, so I feel really bad about that.
Speaker 1:Good for you here, thank you, thank you, no problem. So tell us about yourself what you're from, what's your background? Sure, you should just yourself.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, no problem. So I'm Robbie Platt. I'm from the States originally. I've been living here in London since well, in the UK since 2004. I was born in Long Island, new York, one of ten children in my family.
Speaker 2:Ten children in your family, ten children. I've got seven brothers and two sisters and we moved from New York, long Island, just outside the city, outside of Queens, to North Carolina when I was about 13 years old, 1986. A little town called Asheville, which is in the mountains, the Appalachian Mountains, beautiful, beautiful part of the country, and I was there until about the age of 19 and then kind of started, went to university, university of North Carolina at Asheville sort of my first year at uni and then I came to England. Did you go to Asheville recently? I was in Asheville about ten days ago, yeah.
Speaker 1:Ten days ago, so you were the brother's wedding right.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's right, one of my little ones got married second time.
Speaker 1:He got married, actually which?
Speaker 2:I'm so jealous about because I haven't been married yet once and I'm 40. But yeah, second marriage for him it was in Charleston, south Carolina, beautiful part of the country again. Yeah, it was very nice, very nice.
Speaker 1:So how was it? How do you upbringing as a gay man? Was it easy for you?
Speaker 2:Absolutely not. It was the sheer opposite. So my family, the reason we have ten children, is because we're you know quite, it's quite a conservative family. My parents are like evangelical Christians, basically wanting to get Christians, if you like, and my dad converted to Catholicism like, I think, in sort of the late 90s when I was still living at home and many of my brothers sort of followed in his footsteps. I've got two sisters and my mother who are not Catholic, but I think pretty much the rest of my family is.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Actually, my brother Timmy, might not be Catholic but like most of them are.
Speaker 1:So that means, if you're Catholic, therefore, you must be conservative, and you must not be, not for gay rights, but you must be way more strict in order to support you.
Speaker 2:No, not necessarily. I mean, there's different factions of the Catholic faith and I think where they are they're actually part of this. I forgot what the name of the sect is, but they're sort of a stricter sect, a more traditional sect, where they actually give the, what's it called, not the sermons, but the. I guess they are called sermons, the masses, the masses. Yeah, that's right sorry, I can't remember In Latin, you know.
Speaker 2:so it's very, very traditional like they follow some of the original sort of rules that were in place from the Catholic Church first came into existence and they continue to. I think the priest actually delivers the sermons with his back to the congregation and the reason they do that is because they're sort of facing God, I think, and they're kind of meeting the pack or something like that, but it's just all kinds of little weird nuances.
Speaker 1:Did you used to go all the time to the question? I didn't go to that particular one.
Speaker 2:I went to a normal Catholic. I say normal.
Speaker 1:Sorry, I should probably shift to a different one, but I went to the more modern version of the Catholic Church, the more white one, the most known.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the most known exactly.
Speaker 1:And you moved to the UK when you were 19.
Speaker 2:I moved to the UK in 2004,. I can't remember exactly. I think I must have been 19 or 20.
Speaker 1:I think I might have been 20 actually when I first came here, and so the reason I did.
Speaker 2:I mean this is very personal, but I had a bit of a I guess I came out. I knew that I was gay from sort of when I was a teenager late teenager and I knew that once when I was in high school I did feel like I was bullied quite a bit in North Carolina, didn't feel like I could really be myself. So I knew that when I went to university that there would be an opportunity more of an opportunity for me to come out and be open and be myself.
Speaker 1:Sorry to hear that. I mean, why were you bullied? Because did they know that you were gay? Or did they bully for other reasons?
Speaker 2:Maybe it was my perception, maybe I wasn't actually bullied, I don't know.
Speaker 2:But I just feel as though I didn't really, you know, sort of fit in that. Well, in high school that's really crazy I was really self-aware of sort of myself being gay and you know, many of my friends sort of picked up on it and kind of like talked to me about it and I always denied it. I was just adamant about like just not associating with it. I viewed it, as you know, as was at the time more common as being sort of a weaker version of myself. You know, like a sort of you know, almost an issue.
Speaker 1:I think we all go through that. We also go through that through our teenage years. So did you date girls?
Speaker 2:I did, I did Many. Oh my God. I think I dated three. I want to say three, Okay and it's. Oh my God, I have a funny story that's three more than I have Three more than you have had One of the girls I dated. It was so funny. Our first date was to go to the movies and we went to go see the movie Chicago which had just come out that musical, and we both loved it. I think I loved it a little bit more than she did and our whole relationship.
Speaker 1:You said it.
Speaker 2:We left the cinema singing all the songs we bought the. We went out immediately like bought the CD. At the time you had CDs in your car and we used to play that like all the time we would drive around. You know, whatever.
Speaker 1:He had it come in.
Speaker 2:He had it come in Anyway, so it's my favorite musical, by the way, awesome, it's amazing, it's great. Am I allowed to curse on here? I didn't. Yeah, you can say fuck, okay, good, can say balls. It was fucking amazing. But I the whole relationship was basically based on the musical and I have no idea how she just didn't figure it out. I mean, we never were intimate, we never had sex, you know? Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:It was just like that. Yeah, but you were young anyway. So you were experimentally and I met her through the church.
Speaker 2:Actually, all my girlfriends, I think I met through the church. So I still friends with them, I am, I keep in touch with all of them, of course.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely Nice.
Speaker 2:In fact, when we broke up, we became best friends, you know. So that was just like a. I think we were meant to be friends.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, of course. So you moved to the UK. Okay, let's go through that. So you moved to the UK. When was the first time you dated a boy?
Speaker 2:The first time I dated a boy. That was actually when I was, when I went to university of North Carolina at Asheville, and partly what led me here to the UK. So I was, I was dating this guy. Oh, I don't want to say his name. I almost said his name. Whoops, I don't want to. I can't believe.
Speaker 1:I remember his name, I'll put that out.
Speaker 2:Actually it was many, many, many, many, many ago. So yeah, I was dating this guy and he was straight, he was in the closet and he'd I think he messed around with a couple of guys when he was younger and just took a liking to me. So we, you know, we started. He actually made the pass on me.
Speaker 2:I didn't realize that he was even gay you know to be or was curious or anything like that. I probably got a little bit of an inkling, but like we got drunk one night and, you know, fooled around that kind of thing at university and yeah, it just kind of took off from there and we had like maybe three or four months of just like absolute. I mean, it was my first guy that I was really properly dating and I was just head over heels with him.
Speaker 1:I thought it was a love thing, you know, it was just yeah, just complete like bliss.
Speaker 2:You know, for that time, Anyway, it kind of fell apart because at the time we didn't have like text messages or mobile phones. It was kind of before that and he wrote letters. What was it? Emails. He was emails, oh, emails, yeah. So what happened was my grandfather actually passed away? So we were called away. We went up to New York where my grandfather lives at the time, went to the funeral and he sent me like a couple of emails. But whilst we were away, his parents actually broke into. They had access to his email somehow. I don't know if he was using their email or whatever it was, but they read the emails and they were equally conservative Christians. I mean, this is this deep self we're talking about in North Carolina. And so they actually drove out to my parents' house and, like, just told them the whole situation which led to-.
Speaker 1:So they outed you because I was going to ask you about that they outed me.
Speaker 2:They outed me to my parents. I have a question about that in a minute, okay?
Speaker 1:No, no, no, carry on, carry on, Okay, okay.
Speaker 2:So I had a bit of a fallout with the family. They we kind of. I stopped talking to a number of people in my family immediately following that when it all sort of transpired what happened, and basically I was still with my ex at the time, but then I woke up one morning and he was gone, all his stuff was gone, and it just broke my heart. I just went into this sort of tailspin of depression and, you know, sadness. It was just complete antithesis of what I had just experienced, like that bliss of like three, four months and then suddenly, suddenly like everything was taken away from me.
Speaker 2:Why, what? Where did you go? So I ended up actually going up to New York.
Speaker 1:No, him, oh him, oh him, when he left you.
Speaker 2:He just he went home. I think his parents came and picked him up and he just left. He took me, packed his stuff without me knowing and and just disappeared. That was it, boke up and he was gone. So everything was taken from me, like really, really quickly it was. It was yeah, it was quite traumatic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's that sense of rejection and in starts earlier and then that that stays with you, that can linger with you even without your knowledge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it can, it definitely can, and I think I think that's probably something a lot of gay men can sort of relate to, you know.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2:Rejection and you know, just just feeling kind of isolated, you know that kind of thing.
Speaker 1:So, speaking of that, because you said you were outed and so was I, and this is what I was going to talk- to you about you were outed as well.
Speaker 2:I didn't realize that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I was dating someone for it's actually for my. I was dating my first boyfriend, the one. His relationship lasted for over 10 years, so I was dating him in the beginning and there was this jealous guy who outed me to my parents Wow. And when?
Speaker 2:I was going to. That is so low. That is the worst thing in the world. It is.
Speaker 1:It is. He's so angry, he's so cold, friend, but I was going to ask you did you feel a sense of relief when you were outed? Because you know I can speak for myself. You know, and just just for one side side note, I was relieved because I was very scared of my. My father used to make jokes all the time about gays, yeah, and then when I was outed, my father was not my number one fan, but he was very supportive of me. Okay, okay but it was kind of relief.
Speaker 2:I know what you mean and that's actually a really good point that I haven't really thought about. But I suppose I had very carefully orchestrated, you know sort of how I was going to live my life. I was going to go to university and I would come out at university, and that was because that was a safe place. I was allowed to be, there was in a community that, like, accepted me, and so I would probably have lived a double life for a very long time. I don't know if eventually it would have come out to my, my family and everything else, but I think it did. It did force me to sort of yeah, to to it accelerated that that sort of whole plan of coming out.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I think there was a sense of relief in that, because then I wasn't able to sort of live that lie which I had, which was all I knew my entire life.
Speaker 1:That's all I knew, you know it's, it's, it's kind of a blessing because you know it happens at the worst circumstances. But then when you think about it, you think like, at least I know, at least I've got nothing to hide anymore. That's how I felt yeah, exactly, Exactly, yeah.
Speaker 2:That's a really good point, yeah, so that that all happened and I I decided at that point that and yeah, I thought maybe it was just best to just try and and I think the best way to get over you know someone or like a loss of really big change in your life is just to it's just to kind of change the scene, the scenery, change you know, change the location or whatever. So same I moved. I moved to New York initially with my brother up there and sort of worked with him in the city. That was good. So I was there for probably six months or so and actually what I did was I worked two jobs and I saved up enough money to to basically funds a study abroad program for six months in the UK in a town called Chester, university of Chester, which is up north, yeah, and so I went up there and I was there for six months and absolutely fell in love with the UK, the freedom I had here, the ability to travel, just all the different interesting people that I met, the history here.
Speaker 2:I just thought this was a chance at a brand new life and I loved every aspect of it. I loved the just the country the history, the beauty, the people, the culture, the architecture, the personalities, the just everything about it.
Speaker 1:It just felt like the right move for me yeah.
Speaker 2:And so, yeah, I set up a life here very quickly. I actually met another guy. I did, yeah, another guy here, first Irish, you know, first Irish boyfriend, that's all I say. First, how many have you had? Oh my God.
Speaker 1:How many Irish boyfriends have you had? Three, three Irish. Oh, you do have a type.
Speaker 2:I don't know if it's the accent or something else, but you know, I think it's something else. Yeah, it might be something else, but they're pretty good, you know, in terms of what you laughing at.
Speaker 1:So let's go through them please. I mean, this episode is about toxic relationships and I know you.
Speaker 2:That's why you know I'm glad you came on the show because I'm glad I have the credentials. I need people like you.
Speaker 1:I need to talk to people like just so I can educate myself as well. I was gonna, let's just jump straight to it, so I'm just having a nice little sip of your wine there.
Speaker 2:I think I need that. Do you like my wine? I love your wine. It's a nice Portuguese wine, portuguese wine. Can you say a little bit about it? Yeah, well, it's like two words.
Speaker 1:Dona Irmolinda, that's what you need to know. When you go to Portugal, you need to order that wine. They have it white red, I think, rosé I'm not sure.
Speaker 2:You know what I had when I was in Portugal. Actually, I went recently because I was trying, yeah you went to Portugal. I went through another breakup let's say about six months ago. The toxic one. Yeah, that was one of. I think all my relationships have been toxic, to be honest, to be fair. But like, yeah, this one was particularly ended badly, but I can talk more about that later. But yeah, when I went on a sort of solo trip, I had something called green wine which I hadn't had before.
Speaker 1:Vinho verde. Yeah, vinho verde. Yeah, yes, that's white. Basically it's kind of white. I mean I like both. I'm not fussing with wine anymore.
Speaker 2:I just hate rosé. You're not fussing, you just drink anything as long as it's white, as long as it feels good, yeah for good.
Speaker 1:Sainsbury's, whatever. Wow. But yeah, I love that wine. I'm so glad you mentioned that because I'm just going to ask you straight up what are the first signs of a toxic relationship from your experience, First signs and knowing what you know now.
Speaker 2:Well, okay, I think, yeah, going backwards, I feel like there's signs at the very beginning that you need to look out for, I think, someone who and this is really interesting because I think there's probably an element of toxicity in all of us I don't think anyone is toxic-free. We all have trauma, we all have situations that we go through that dentus, no one's perfect, so you've got to realize that every single person on earth has good and bad elements, and qualities about them, including ourselves.
Speaker 2:Yeah, including ourselves. I feel like in today's day and age, with just the ubiquity of having all of these self-help and well-being but also having any run at the first sign of trouble, I don't feel like that. That should be the immediate reaction.
Speaker 2:I'm so glad you said that In today's day and age, with so much choice that we have, with everyone being swipeable, I feel like people run at the first sign of danger, the first sign of trouble. I don't feel like that's always the right reaction. I really don't. I feel like you've got, you're going. Relationships are tough, they're hard, they're not easy. They're never always easy. If you're planning to be with somebody for the next 50 to 60 years, you will go through burying most of your friends and family in that period. You will go through moves and loss and trauma and all kinds of experiences. You will go through health crises. You will go through all kinds of situations. It's really about sticking with that person through their lows, through their highs and just being that one person.
Speaker 1:It sounds like when you're with someone, you're in for the long haul, you're in for the long journey, you're in for the marriage. Because you were just reciting marriage vows. I was going to say that is it because let me just ask you this, because you've just mentioned what you need to stick with someone through and through. I think that's generational, because I think the new generation doesn't do that. I know I'm over-generalizing.
Speaker 2:You were talking against maybe around. I'm not with evolution, but I would say upwards of like two million years of history. People are naturally what's the word I'm looking for? I was going to say egregious, but I don't think that's the right word they're naturally sort of flocked towards. They need other people. We partner up. That's sort of a natural part of the way that we've evolved.
Speaker 1:Having that sort of other person. I don't think that's what's happening. Do you know why? Because naturally we gravitate towards one another, but I think society is splitting us up because now what you're seeing in the media is like you need to be independent, you need to be a boss, bitch, boss, babe, boss this, boss that, and you cannot rely on other people. I think that's really dangerous in our society nowadays, totally.
Speaker 2:Okay, I see your point. Yeah, I completely agree with that. I would say that it's not all of us crave to have that sort of that feeling of love At this point in your life. You might not necessarily need it, but it's a longer term investment. You're eventually going to lose your parents. You're eventually going to lose your family. It's about having that other person when you get old and you need someone to look after you. Can you imagine I used to volunteer, like back in the States? I used to volunteer in retirement homes, for example. Can you imagine being that person all alone and you pass away and nobody comes to your funeral.
Speaker 1:It's huge in you.
Speaker 2:Okay, I know you are going to be around to sort of grieve that. But can you imagine being at the end years of your life and just literally not even having a person to pick up the phone and talk to Five?
Speaker 1:on the phone with a relative Like five on the phone with a conversation.
Speaker 2:You want to talk about something that's bothering you and you actually have no one. Your friends will eventually have their own lives, have their own sort of situations, have their own families. It's just naturally what people do. So eventually, as you get older, you're going to find that your friendship groups continues to shrink and shrink and shrink, whether you're gay or straight or whatever, and that will just happen and eventually think about what the purpose of a relationship is. It's not about having necessarily like a husband or wife for the sake of it. It's about having a best friend that you are committing to passing through this journey of life together with.
Speaker 1:And if it's a partner, if it's a loving partner, I mean that's just grave, isn't it? That's just a bonus, and I completely agree with you. So you're very moral. You're very moral, you've got your, you're not going to say I am, you do.
Speaker 2:You might have your life. I suppose that all that church years way back in this video.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, it's bringing all that. It's really paying off. You know it's bringing all that.
Speaker 2:I'm probably the most moral, amoral person there is on the planet. I'm very liberal. You're saying all the right things.
Speaker 1:You're saying all the right things.
Speaker 2:I'm very liberal when it comes to things, but I think that there is a very moral basis for being liberal. So I feel like my whole point of being, my whole point of being, comes from very. You know I believe in equality. I believe people should all have equal chance in life. Is everything okay? Okay, I heard crashing in the background. Is your? That's just me thinking Okay.
Speaker 2:All right, just making sure. Yeah, you know. So I really feel like you know, my pushing the boundaries of society is really about fighting for what I believe to be morally right and I feel like there are changes that need to happen. Still, you know, like I don't know.
Speaker 1:Like what, like what? What would you change now if you could? No, actually, you just said it. You just said it. People cannot be so so, living in fear of missing out all the time. People need to be more, need to rely more on one another.
Speaker 2:It's weird, because I would say there's elements of me that are very progressive. There's also elements of me that are very traditional.
Speaker 1:Although that you put that in traditional versus progressive. So if you're not pro-marriage Progressive, well, what is?
Speaker 2:No, I mean traditional for me is preserving the past right. It's preserving the past is protective of what was, and I feel like there's elements of me that is definitely, you know, wants to do that. You know, when it comes to sort of relationships and sort of the way you treat other people, like it's on a personal basis, you know, making sure that people have, you know, that commitment and things that I think that this generation is now sort of starting to forget.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Totally agree with that, I think that's before you know.
Speaker 2:Society today is sort of pulling people apart. Technology is pulling people apart because it's making them more individualistic, which I don't agree with. I believe that we need to be together and look out for each other. So that's like my traditional bits.
Speaker 2:And I think being progressive is where I think there have been gaps in addressing that in the past, because society hasn't always been equal towards LGBTQ plus people, towards people of different color and backgrounds and different you know sort of, you know whatever, whatever it might be. So there have been gaps in that and I feel like that is the number one principle driving a lot of my personal beliefs in my life.
Speaker 1:And there you have it.
Speaker 2:So there you go, Srinigwa and there you have it, and there you have it. I'm still going to let you this up?
Speaker 1:Exactly, yeah, I guess I obviously agree with everything that you just said.
Speaker 2:By the way, this wine is delicious. It's going down really, really well.
Speaker 1:It's Portuguese, right, I mean enough said yeah, but we were talking about the first signs, the signs that you would now avoid with your actual boyfriend. Yeah, okay, if you had a boyfriend now, what would I know? It's a bit like of a contradictory thing to say, but what would make you run for the hills? Whoo.
Speaker 2:You know this is beyond we're getting deep now. We're getting deep now, okay.
Speaker 1:I haven't even started yet, oh.
Speaker 2:God, okay, right. So this is, this is just the beginning, right? So let's see, I think one thing.
Speaker 1:Do you ever not wear shorts? Every time I see you, we're always wearing shorts, even when it's cold.
Speaker 2:I like to show off these legs. Baby, you know these legs. These legs are great.
Speaker 1:I can tell you're single.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to show off the package, okay.
Speaker 1:Good for you, sorry Go on, we digress.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we digress. Sorry about that. Okay, so I think the thing that I like to tell all sign is I know it sounds really petty and small, but if, if your, if your partner is always on his phone, always on his phone, always answering messages, always answering messages, and then you text him and or her, or whatever it is, you know, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, partner.
Speaker 2:And they, they take a while to get back to you. That's a bad sign.
Speaker 1:That's a bad sign, I think because so, when you're with them next to you is always on the phone, and then when you, you go to your home, et cetera, and you message them, and they'll message you when, when it's too long for you, so when it's too long a wait for you.
Speaker 2:Once too long of a wait? Yeah, I would say an hour, two hours. I mean. If it's the middle of a work day, then you know.
Speaker 2:if it's the weekend and it's like you know one to a single and you can see that there's two ticks, that kind of thing, and you know they haven't replied back and yet when you're with them you see them responding to people, like much more quickly. You know there's something wrong there. I don't know. For me it's not even about that. That was just. That was an example of where I think respect has begun to fall and your partner has begun to look for ways that he can push. He can push that line of respect Because you know, for me, I've been in relationships with narcissists. You know several times in the past, more than once, and you know, I think, what it is about, sort of the other person coming in and trying to seed control, trying to kind of almost emotionally nip you out. He's just taken a puff of my vape and I don't I think that was way too big of a puff.
Speaker 2:So when you suck it when you suck it, you've got to like suck it gently, like this and, yeah, I still don't understand the concept of vaping.
Speaker 1:It's not a nice concept, it's great.
Speaker 2:It's much better than smoking, which I used to do back in the day you remember what you were saying before. Yes, I do. I was talking about respect.
Speaker 2:I don't know what that is, I feel like. For me it's about looking for those signs of respect. Where you see those cracks happening in that level of respect, you should address it early on. But I feel like if there's a consistent, sustained attempt to not responding, going out and just trying to think, not inviting you to things that you would typically invite your partner to Like, what If there's a house party or something and everyone else is bringing their couple? And your partner says I'm just going to spend some time with my friends.
Speaker 2:Yeah that doesn't sound good. No, no. Things like that Because you should want to spend time with your partner.
Speaker 2:I agree you should want to be spending time with your partner If he or she or they or whatever, knows that you're going to be sitting at home not doing anything to put a link in your thumbs and you've not been invited. And this excuse is oh well, you know, I don't know, through inviting partners or something like that. And then you find out oh well, you know, the other partners have gone. And then it's like you know what is, are you hoping to pick up? Are you hoping to hook up with you know what I mean? Like all these questions start to flow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah especially when you're like that's actually an element of control. That is an element of control.
Speaker 1:Especially when they were like ultra tight, like X small t-shirts when they're mostly. Who are you trying to impress? Why don't you partner with a home? I didn't call for your chair, oh perfect.
Speaker 2:I didn't lose your chair. There you go, try that, try again. Oh, there we go, that's better.
Speaker 1:Anyway, this is one digression, and then yeah, so why are you dressing up? You know, if you don't want to go out with your partner, I get it. You need to have your own time, your own me time with your friends. But who are you trying to impress when you go to those parties that you just mentioned? Exactly, Like wearing really attractive clothes, clothing, I mean I'm all about like freedom. But then I mean, do you want to be with me or not?
Speaker 2:Do you think this is a bit too extreme. I don't know. I think it's all right to celebrate. You know the way that you look. There's nothing wrong with a bit of white party. There's nothing wrong with people looking at you and saying, oh, I like those arms, I like those guns. You know, I like those bombs.
Speaker 1:What's wrong with liking that with your partner next to you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1:Why do you go out? And then, who are you trying to impress?
Speaker 2:That's almost like saying you know, you know, wear a hijab now, you know like and just like, cover yourself up when we go out, because A bit too extreme though, isn't it? I don't feel like that's necessary.
Speaker 1:No, it's up his religious.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's true, but there's a reason. There's a purpose behind that, though, and the purpose behind that is to cover up, you know, sort of the sexual curves and that kind of thing. Right right, and you know, I just don't. You know, I think there's nothing wrong with celebrating the way that you look and you. A partnership should be about equality, you know, and it's not about you controlling or preventing them from. I guess I guess boundaries, but you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but that's my point. Yeah, it's not controlling, it's not in security, it's not jealousy. Well, it's about, yeah, it's about boundaries. What is the Again, if you're in an open relationship, which I was going?
Speaker 2:to ask you about. Well, okay.
Speaker 1:But I think, yeah, there's a you. Okay, so I'm just going to say it you were in an open relationship. It does not seem correct. You've told everyone I was not in an open relationship no. I would you were. You went into an open relationship there were boundaries to.
Speaker 2:It's not a traditional open relationship. The relationship that I had with him right, oh God, I just dropped my bag. Can you pass it over please? Okay, a bit too nervous, are you? Yeah, I got nervous there. The open relationship that we had it was called different country, different rules, and basically what that meant was if we were both in the same country at the same time, if there was someone else who was involved with If we decided to bring someone else in.
Speaker 2:basically Sorry if we slept with other people it was together, so it was like a threesome, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1:So now, you never did that on your own.
Speaker 2:No, if we were in the same country it had to be together. But if we were in different countries we were both allowed to kind of shag whoever we wanted, but we had to report back what we did, because there was a health reason behind that. Because if he went and shagged 20 people which I mean I don't think he'd ever do that. Well, actually he would, and so would you, mrs St. I would not, not that.
Speaker 1:Not in a relationship. Not in a relationship, no, I was actually pretty good.
Speaker 2:I actually rarely kind of like, but I always reported it back. I was always very honest and truthful about it and, to be honest with you, I found that when I got into the relationship and I fell in love that I didn't really desire to sleep with other people.
Speaker 1:But that's the point to me, that's the point of I wouldn't be in an open relationship because I'm too jealous for that. But I also think like if we can do it good for you, more power to you and all that. But I just think there will always be one person. There will always be one person. If you're in a trouble, for example, there will always be one person that feels a bit left out, and then that person is going to suffer in silence.
Speaker 2:So my issue with that is you suffered in silence. Well listen, my issue with that is that when you get with somebody right, you know and you've committed the rest of your life, it's not about keeping that person in prison. Can you imagine like okay, this is the last penis you will ever see for the rest of your life. You know You've just married this person. You're never going to see another penis for the rest of your life, so what?
Speaker 2:I don't feel like that's realistic. I think if you look at history, everyone has cheated, everyone like it's just ridiculous the levels of amount of people that actually cheat on their partners. It's probably close to 100% you know, it really is.
Speaker 2:So to put these unrealistic constraints on a relationship, I think can actually add pressure. So I think what modern society is trying to address and they're probably not doing it correctly it's about alleviating that pressure a little bit. It's about saying this is respect. Respect is the number one core thing that is important in this relationship. So I'm going to be honest with you, I'm going to be transparent with you, I'm going to be sure that you know I'm going to respect the boundaries.
Speaker 2:We discussed what the rules are and we both adhere to them, I agree. And then when we do that, you know we're respecting each other.
Speaker 1:But that's what I'm going to tell you. What's the?
Speaker 2:rules that respect, because cheating is disrespect, cheating is lying, is deceitful, betrayal. But if you've discussed those terms, then I think that alleviates that pressure and it allows you to still have an open and transparent and honest relationship where you both respect each other, where you don't feel forced to cheat.
Speaker 1:Or if cheating happens. You just said it, cheating happens all the time. Everyone apparently will cheat. But yeah, that's fine, it will happen. It will be human beings, men having men cheat more than women. I'm not sure, but I think times have changed. But I think that I used to be the traditional cheating way, apparently. But I also think that when you cheat, yes, it's bad, it's betrayal, it ends a lot of relationships, even friendships. But in friendships and sexual relations, loving relationships, you need to work through. If you want to, if you think it's worth it, just work through. Cheating happens, but so does communication Nothing. Communication is key and if you don't communicate with your partner, with your friends, with your acquaintances, I don't think there's any point. And I think open relationships, open relationships is a result of communication, but cheating happens there as well, you know what do you mean?
Speaker 2:open relationships are a result of communication. What do you mean?
Speaker 1:Because I think, in order to have an open relationship, you need to have a dialogue with your partner. You can just be open without your partner's knowledge. That's called cheating. Right, yeah, exactly yeah yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:So I guess, I guess, I guess there is an element of us having like sort of an open relationship. But, like they were, there were very strict boundaries. It wasn't like a traditional one where you can just go out and sort of shag anyone that you wanted, anytime you wanted. There was. There was various specifics, you know, to it. And you know and unfortunately, those were respected, which is why I broke up. Why then did you very sad, like I don't think it should have, but you know, there we are, I think you know, you can have one person in the relationship, you need two people.
Speaker 2:So there we are.
Speaker 1:So what's your mindset now?
Speaker 2:Where's my mindset now? Just sorry.
Speaker 1:That's your mindset.
Speaker 2:Interesting question. I am in a position where it's it's been hard. You know I've spent the last sort of six months, you know, trying to move on, trying to rebuild and you know, unfortunately, like you know, a lot of things haven't rebuilt themselves.
Speaker 1:I've had just to clarify. Just to clarify you did break up early this year.
Speaker 2:I broke up with my ex partner six months ago, exactly Six, six months, yeah, so yeah, so it's been kind of like six months of like you know, I think I think what it is is people often underestimate how, how trauma, traumatizing, you know, a breakup can be for at least one person, if not both, in the relationship in different ways. Maybe I don't really know, because I haven't spoken to my ex partner since, since the breakup really length. Yeah, I think we've had maybe one or two conversations, but they've not really been substantial no.
Speaker 2:But the thing is, I think you know when you have a breakup, it's almost like, almost like you know grieving for somebody's past on, or you know grieving for a life that you were planning on, that you may have spent years or your entire life, sort of like looking forward, and you kind of put the pieces together, yeah, and then suddenly all that's taken away from you. So you do have sort of like you know, months of sort of grieving and trauma and just it sucks.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And anxiety and everything else and lots of interesting things that you that you would have had at one point, and just not really sure what the next stage in your life should be, or what you want it to be, or even wanting to have the next stage, you know. So it's been a real struggle.
Speaker 1:But do you know? Because how many of you have you had again?
Speaker 2:So far, I've had three official ones, because I was going to ask you how? No, no, no, I had four official ones for official ones.
Speaker 1:So how long in between relationships did you stay single for?
Speaker 2:You know what? That's a good question. It's so between boyfriend one and boyfriend two. It was, I want to say, about six years. Boyfriend two and boyfriend three is four years.
Speaker 1:Six years, four years, ok, yeah, it's been a while.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Why do you think you're lonely? I take a little time to get over people.
Speaker 2:What about the other way around? And that's why that's, and that's the way it should be, probably because I mean like if I, if I was able to sort of like get over somebody within like a week or so or two weeks or a month or two months, you know I'd be, I probably would have had 18 boyfriends. You know, at this point in my life I'm 40 years old you know, I probably should have had more boyfriends or, I don't know, should have. It's my personality type. You know I've had the number of boyfriends that is right for me, right. I've been at my own pace and that sort of was worth for me. So the next one, who knows?
Speaker 2:You know, I have no idea I am dating again. I have started dating again. I am seeing various different people at different points, just to try and just get to know people. I'm at the getting to know you stage kind of thing, and I've met some really, really lovely, lovely guys. I'm trying to sort of like I'm on quite a few different dating apps. I'm on hinge, I'm on Tinder, I'm on Grindr. So Grindr isn't really what's wrong with?
Speaker 2:no, scruff. No because scruff is scruff is just scruffy sex. It's kinky sex, and I mean as much as I like.
Speaker 1:tell us where we went last, last Saturday.
Speaker 2:Rose. We went to Rose Speaking of kink. Yeah, yeah, that was good, that was good fun.
Speaker 1:I think that's a good journey, though I mean you create your own path, no one else you know. And then who am I and who are you to criticize my path? You know, if I want to be single for two weeks, so be it, Because I know some people cannot be out of relationships.
Speaker 2:But you know what I mean. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:I have been single for four years now, I think.
Speaker 2:Have you? Yeah, are you looking for a new relationship?
Speaker 1:Actually four years Four-ish. How did we meet, by the way? We met on the orange Facebook, actually. No, we met on Tinder. We met on Tinder.
Speaker 2:We met on Tinder. We did, we went on a date, didn't we? Yeah, couple of dates, yeah.
Speaker 1:We went there, you go everyone.
Speaker 2:We went on a few dates and that's how I got to know Robbie, and then and then next week Robbie went on a second date, and then he found out how much of a mess I am and invited me to his podcast and you know it's been More productive use of time. It's been a love story ever since. As friends.
Speaker 1:As friends, as friends it has, it has as friends and I think that's probably how most of my things are going to end up.
Speaker 2:Good feel, you know at this point you know probably friends, because I don't see myself as finding my future husband right now. I mean, I really don't think it's something you can plan for.
Speaker 1:Listen to me. I also think it's too early for you.
Speaker 2:It's too early to tell, but listen, I really think that it's not something that you can plan for my exes, who were both substantial, really good long-term relationships, first one being my ex-fiancee right. Mm-hmm, I didn't know that. Yeah, I've been engaged before, but this last one I also proposed to you as well last summer.
Speaker 1:You're very impulsive. No, no, with your ex. I know it said his name too, but I think you have a very impulsive personality. Why? Because you know actually I'm probably making this up, but I do think that you jump into situations. In general, I'm not going to mention anything and I think you know people take risks in life and I think they pay off. You know they're meant to pay off, but I didn't know you were engaged twice.
Speaker 2:No, I wasn't engaged twice. I've been engaged once.
Speaker 1:No, you said, you felt, and then the last one, and then I proposed to you, but he rejected. Oh, so you almost engaged, but you would have been engaged if you had your way.
Speaker 2:He actually ended up laughing at me and this is one of the narcissists that I've dated Laughing at me and actually we were away. We were at a wedding and ended up telling quite a few people who attended the wedding about it and it was just like really actually really low, really horrible thing to do. It is.
Speaker 2:And I ended up laughing about it and actually like he ended up thinking it became so second nature Like I think probably till the story 100 times that he did in front of a couple of people that we were mutual friends with at the time and they were just in shock.
Speaker 1:Tell me later who they are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I will. They ended up looking at him and saying you know, you can't do this in front of someone who's just proposed you know you can't. And this is his heart and his life. And you're like sitting here just laughing about it, like that's a really serious thing. For some, that's a big step for someone.
Speaker 1:That's really bad. How much of laughing though I was in. Why was he mocking?
Speaker 2:I think it was because I well, in fairness to him, I did it when I was very drunk. I got quite scared to do it when I was sober. We were in a town called Tassis in South France and we're at the top of a cliff and you know.
Speaker 1:I almost did it.
Speaker 2:The sun was setting. It was really really beautiful scenery. I can still picture it like vividly. It's cheesy, but it's so cute it really is no, it would have been lovely, it would have been awesome.
Speaker 1:But I got too scared.
Speaker 2:At that point I even asked him to sit down next to me and kind of like, just, I was like, okay, what do I do? Do I get on my knee? What do I do? I'm not sure. Oh my God, we got up scared, I'm scared. We went down to the town, to Tassis, and we actually sat down and started having dinner and we sat next to this couple living that and I just remember that one of them was a wedding planner and it was just. It just felt so natural. I felt like that was the right thing to happen. At that time I really thought that this was the one for me. Like, honestly, I can't even tell you the level of euphoria and everything else that was going through my blood, my veins, just being with this person. But yeah, that whole situation was turned around on me by him and he actually ended up laughing about it.
Speaker 1:Do you think that was kind of a toxic sign? I'm not saying you should do what it could have, but I'm just asking do you think this is so people know? People learn from it. Do you think people should be wiser?
Speaker 2:The result of that.
Speaker 1:People listen to you.
Speaker 2:The result of the situation was that we had a chat and then we talked about making it work and we said if this works, I really there's no going back from it. This is all or nothing. This is all or nothing because I'm now going to be 40 next year. This is not a joke. We've already spent three and whatever years on and off dating, and so at this point this is a serious step. So let's really go at it and give it a try. And it didn't work out. Unfortunately, Now we don't talk to each other, so I guess it didn't work out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it didn't work out so, but you also. You said you're 40 years of age and you're also a smart guy. So if you have your next class sales, you think I'm a smart guy, really Me Fine. I think if you have your next relationship, we're going to avoid from the beginning, knowing that what you know so far Like quickly.
Speaker 2:I think it's down to. There was a lot of disrespect, I think in the last relations Do you have any examples Apart from the ones you? Mentioned. I don't want to slag off anybody on this. This is not why, however. However, examples of disrespect, I think, are, well, you know, laughing about engagement rings, for example. That might be why.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that kind of, that kind of like you know.
Speaker 2:I think it's about you know the true test. I think you know. I think most relationships are very blissful, very you know, you know cordial at the very beginning. In fact, most are Not all of them In the beginning. Yeah, you know in the beginning and I think you know the true test sort of comes in within a couple of months of being together and you might have a disagreement.
Speaker 1:All living together.
Speaker 2:It's about it's really about how you communicate when you're disagreements. It's about how effectively are you guys able to?
Speaker 1:Not just that.
Speaker 2:So who is Okay, let's do this, or have a discussion where you have a different opinion and I think, if you can have a different opinion and you can't like sort of be okay with that, yeah, and that is definitely a, you know, a tell all sign that you need to run for the hills.
Speaker 1:Do you know who was the bossiest? The bossiest Out of the two? Oh, the other one Okay, because I think that's.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean I say that he probably would say the same about me actually.
Speaker 1:That's the thing you know. You don't know the other person's version of it, but from what I've known you so far and from what you've been telling me, I don't think that relationship was meant to work. But who am I to say? I mean? But do you think he was the bossiest?
Speaker 2:In what way I think it would have Listen, and I don't want this to be a podcast about.
Speaker 1:No, but it's about toxic relationships and my question is would you take no for an answer? Because that's very toxic and that's the sign of toxicity?
Speaker 2:Would you take no for an answer that people don't realise? I am actually trying to think about that. I am. You're not going to be there by six, best friend, I think he was very bossy. Oh God, yes, I think he was very bossy. I actually don't think that he would have taken no for an answer. I think it was his way to the highway.
Speaker 1:Okay, do you know what? I'm going to edit this out? You can't just be attacking him for no reason, because I know what you're doing right now. Yeah, I did it out.
Speaker 2:I did it out, by the way. I need to. What did my phone say? I need to?
Speaker 1:You got like three messages, or four or five or six. Okay, right, okay, robbie, yeah, so right now you're not in a relationship mood, so you've been having your fun, you've been going on dates.
Speaker 2:I would say I'm in a relationship mood. I would say that I'm going on dates to get to know people Right and hopefully there will be a spark, there will be something that will happen.
Speaker 1:But what do you want out? Of?
Speaker 2:this, I think when I said the beginning of the podcast, which was to I would like a best friend, an equal, someone who I can spend time with, someone who understands me, someone who will take me out to dinner, someone who goes to the movies with me, someone who will travel with me. Yeah you're in a relationship. Basically I guess so. But I mean, what is a relationship like to find it philosophically? I don't know what is a relationship.
Speaker 1:Let's get philosophical, Because I think if I've had my traumas, I gave my exes some traumas. I mean just being real. I'm sure you did girl, but I think that's unfair Because to the next one, and I don't want that to happen. But reality is it's going to bleed into the other relationships. Your traumas will Not yours personally, but my traumas will bleed into the other person's relationship.
Speaker 2:That's why everyone should do therapy.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm going to say I really believe that there is not a human on earth that should not be in therapy. Therapy is really good, even if it's just to have a neutral point of view, someone, a neutral listener, just to listen to your issues Like a therapist, listen to you talk, whether there's issues on or not, whether there's trauma on or not, whether you've been traumatized or not. It's just good to have an objective point of view, because your friends are always going to say things that you want to hear. You know you're.
Speaker 1:And we never listen to them, do we?
Speaker 2:I mean your true friends probably won't like, push you back on you a little bit, but, like generally, your friends will take your side and that's why you're there. Your friends and your family will do the same. So you essentially create these bubbles of reality because you surround yourself with people that are supportive of your viewpoint, of your experiences, and will stick by you and will stick through whatever space that you've been through.
Speaker 2:So it's really important to have a sort of very neutral, a very objective sort of point of view that is able to balance things out a little bit, because that is probably the truest answer that you'll get from someone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, completely yeah. Okay, ask me your worst. Just one last question about relationships, because this has been really really informative. I really I've really enjoyed it, thank you. When do you know a relationship is over?
Speaker 2:When do you know a relationship is over? When you have to ask that question. When you have to ask that question, when you say, you know, does he love me, does he really care about me? You know, when you start having those doubts, you think that's the beginning of the end. It's sustained. I think that's the end. I think when you get to a point where you're like, is this going to last? You know, does he love me, does he actually care about me? When you're asking those questions, you're in some serious, deep shit. I mean, like every relationship is different. There isn't like a Bible verse. You know, playing on words, going back to my sort of religious beginning.
Speaker 2:But there isn't like a Bible verse you know in terms of when, exactly precisely, the relationship is over, because every relationship is different. But I do think that if you're at the point where you're asking those kinds of questions, that you're in some serious deep shit.
Speaker 1:You're telling yourself subconsciously that you need to do something about your relationship.
Speaker 2:You're saying. You're saying this doesn't feel right. There's something in me that doesn't feel balanced. What do I need to do to fix this? And that's also interesting Is it really you? Is it the other person? You can't ever control the other person. You can't force someone to love you. You cannot force anyone to love you. You cannot force anyone to want to be with you. So when it's over, it's over and the best thing to do is to walk away. Unfortunately, you know it really is. I know a lot about relationships with someone who's failed at so many.
Speaker 1:No, but that's how you know.
Speaker 2:That's also like, it's how you get up, you know yeah.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about the LGBTQ plus and then we'll wrap this. Okay, shoot me. So I'm just going to talk about stereotypes. All right, let's get a bit controversial.
Speaker 2:I like a bit of controversy. Go on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so do you think we, so to speak, we live up to our reputation of being very poor Pramishers, pramishers being very fickle in relationships and careless in a way. Because what do you think? Because I don't share that opinion, but tell me yours.
Speaker 2:That's interesting and I think there's probably an element of truth in that. There's probably elements of exaggeration or positioning from wider society, some perspective from wider society or misperception from wider society that has fed into that as well. I do think that we in the LGBTQ plus community have had a lack of sort of people to role models because we haven't had marriage until globally until the last couple of decades.
Speaker 2:So it's a very new concept for us. So our world is still sort of coming around to that, and that's a huge societal shift. Whether you like it or not, that has changed the playing field a little bit. Some people have agreed with this, some people don't. Whatever your politics are, it has shifted the way that people receive relationships, the longevity, whether trying to get out of it, what the purpose is, et cetera, and so forth. Is it to heteronormative whatever? That's a different debate.
Speaker 2:What I'm saying is that the effect, the implications that having equal marriage within the LGBT plus community has had an impact. It definitely has, and I'm one who's 100% in support of it. On the other hand, I do think that technology, the advancements that we've had in tech, in dating apps, in all of that has become so ubiquitous across the board, and it's not just gay relationships but straight ones as well. People have become a lot more sort of. I think their behavior has changed because things are more disposable, things are. You're able to sort of have a turnaround more quickly. You have more options. Everyone has more options these days, whether you live in Zimbabwe or whether you live in California. You literally have these apps now that make the options that you have out there in the world in terms of dating, much more sort of flexible, but it also makes it harder to find the one right, because there's not too much to choose from.
Speaker 2:So okay, let's use this analogy. So think back in the 1960s when they had black and white TV and you had five channels and there was always something to watch. There was always something. I grew up in the 80s and we had, I think, eight channels, 10 channels, and we always found something to watch as kids and we loved it and we had a great time and it was wonderful. Today you have thousands of channels. In fact, you have an infinite amount of channels because you have on demand TV.
Speaker 1:And you spend more time browsing. You spend more time looking for the right thing and you're satisfied.
Speaker 2:And that's exactly what has happened to relationships as well. We treat everything that way today. We treat everything as though it is disposable onto the next, onto the next, onto the next. What can be better? What can be better? What can be better? We're obsessed with that today and that unfortunately feeds into everything from food choice to relationship choice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:To choice, to choice, to choice, to choice Anything that has a choice.
Speaker 1:There's more in the menu, there's more in the cart, so we're.
Speaker 2:It's like a buffet of opportunities that you Imagine coming to a buffet and they've got burgers and fries, or you've got a buffet and you've got every food in the planet. You'd sit there with every food in the planet, probably a lot longer thinking about what the hell do I want to eat? I have no idea. And you probably would end up getting a little bit of everything and then moving on to the next because you'd want the next thing. You want the next thing, you want the next thing, you want the next thing when you're in that buffet, when you're in that buffet.
Speaker 2:But if you've got burgers and fries and that's all you've got. You know? Yeah, let's, you're going to enjoy that burger a lot more.
Speaker 1:Let's go with that metaphor. So while you're in that buffet, you're missing out on the Alakard restaurant next door? Yeah, you know what I mean. So you're probably looking at it in the wrong places as well, you as in you and I. Anyone.
Speaker 2:I think technology is both a curse and a blessing. It's allowed us to do a lot more and advance in a lot more ways, but I think having this much choice actually the whole thing about technology is it's not natural. It's not natural. Our evolution has not kept up pace with our developments.
Speaker 1:I blame ourselves because we created this. We have Not robots. The robots didn't create this.
Speaker 2:We did With AI. They're about to start creating stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but who created AI? Yeah, exactly, it was a program. Ok, let's end this on a really light note. Ok, so let's talk about the name of our podcast. What's your favorite food?
Speaker 2:My favorite dish. My favorite dish? Yeah Well, I didn't talk about my race at the beginning, but I'm a quarter Italian, I'm a quarter African-American, I'm a quarter German, I'm a quarter English. I grew up eating Italian food, though and I'm from New York, of course, you know, so I would say my favorite food on the planet is lasagna.
Speaker 1:Which you cooked, which you cooked for your friends, and I was there.
Speaker 2:Which I cooked and I think it's a great lasagna.
Speaker 1:And you mentioned your grandmother. Why?
Speaker 2:Josephina Borisi, but she is a Josephine plat. She was from Sicily. One of 13 children came over. Was she in Golden?
Speaker 1:Girls.
Speaker 2:I think they immigrated sort of to that.
Speaker 1:That one was from Sicily.
Speaker 2:Oh, was she. Oh yeah, the little one. Yeah, I remember you talking about the glasses.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Nice. Do you have any recommendations in London? Because we both live in London, so why do you go?
Speaker 2:In terms of food places, yeah, Well, I'm going to the house of Momo tonight, which is a lovely Indian place in Doulston, and I think it is actually some of the best Indian food I've had. It's just a little dinky place like there and I think it is actually incredible.
Speaker 1:Is that where we went?
Speaker 2:We went yesterday, we went on Saturday. Yeah, we did Love that place.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. What about your favorite drink? It doesn't have to be alcohol Margarita, apart from this Portuguese wine, amargarita Margarita. Yeah, ok, ok.
Speaker 2:So, every time I go on holiday, my first drink is a margarita.
Speaker 1:Have you had a cup of tea? That's my favorite.
Speaker 2:I used to be my favorite, no, but when I went to Porto I had a Portotinto, portotinto.
Speaker 1:Portotinto, ok, ok.
Speaker 2:Which was really good. Actually, I loved it. It's wine, right? No, it's port with um.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wine, port wine, oh port. Yeah, sorry, port is wine yeah.
Speaker 2:That's right Port with um fizzy, what's it called?
Speaker 1:Is it kind of similar to Sangria and Tinto Verano?
Speaker 2:It's almost like the Portuguese version of Sangria.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't think I've had it. I don't think I've had it before. Do you know why?
Speaker 2:this Sangria and Tinto Verano. Do you know why this tooth in the name is for?
Speaker 1:it? No, I don't. Oh, is it because one of them has spirits in it, like vodka, sangria?
Speaker 2:They're actually the same drink, but it's only a regional difference in terms of the language.
Speaker 1:Oh, it is so.
Speaker 2:In the south they call it Tinto Verano and in the north they call it Sangria.
Speaker 1:And in Madrid, which is central, they call it Tinto Verano. Oh do they do.
Speaker 2:Oh, they do All right.
Speaker 1:Ok, yeah, at least they did when I was there.
Speaker 2:I don't know, I've had too much wine.
Speaker 1:I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I've had so many glasses of wine.
Speaker 2:Doner Melinda is killing you, I'm always upside down. I may be saying this the wrong way.
Speaker 1:Robbie, I really, really enjoyed having you all over. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:I have really loved being here. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:How was your experience?
Speaker 2:It's been great, actually it's been. This is my first podcast, actually, so I must say I have found it really fluid and easy and lovely and you've been a great host. Thank you so much for having me on the show. Everybody you need to sign up to this podcast because it is yeah, it's great. Oh, thank you, I'm back and I've listened to them and it's just amazing, so thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Let's end that now On that note. Thank you so much, everybody. See you next time MUSIC.