Impact Masters Podcast
#35 Impact Master Itumeleng Moagi: From Soweto to tech Entrepreneurship
What if you could overcome immense historical inequities and rise to become a leading figure in the tech industry? Join us as we sit down with Tumi Moagi, an influential entrepreneur and community advocate from South Africa, who shares her incredible journey from her roots in Johannesburg to her roles as the co-founder of Invoice and the country head for Africa's Talking in South Africa. Tumi’s experiences growing up in Soweto amidst apartheid, and her reflections on how music and a community-centric upbringing shaped her resilience and cultural identity, offer a captivating backdrop to her story.
As we delve deeper, Tumi opens up about the challenges she faced growing up in poverty, overcoming language barriers, and leveraging education for personal growth and success. Her candid insights reveal the struggles and triumphs of navigating social dynamics during her education and early career in the tech industry. This episode also highlights Tumi's strategic pivots during the COVID-19 pandemic, where she shares the emotional and mental toll of entrepreneurship and the resilience required to adapt and survive in a rapidly changing market landscape.
We wrap up with a powerful discussion on building a borderless African tech ecosystem and the importance of authenticity in contributing to Africa's broader cultural narrative. Tumi emphasizes the need for local solutions crafted by Africans for Africans, and the significance of community support and global partnerships. Tune in to be inspired by Tumi Oryaku’s unwavering dedication to empowering developers and driving innovation, and gain valuable insights into the future of technology and entrepreneurship in Africa.
Subscribe and show some love. Ubuntu.
What if you could overcome immense historical inequities and rise to become a leading figure in the tech industry? Join us as we sit down with Tumi Moagi, an influential entrepreneur and community advocate from South Africa, who shares her incredible journey from her roots in Johannesburg to her roles as the co-founder of Invoice and the country head for Africa's Talking in South Africa. Tumi’s experiences growing up in Soweto amidst apartheid, and her reflections on how music and a community-centric upbringing shaped her resilience and cultural identity, offer a captivating backdrop to her story.
As we delve deeper, Tumi opens up about the challenges she faced growing up in poverty, overcoming language barriers, and leveraging education for personal growth and success. Her candid insights reveal the struggles and triumphs of navigating social dynamics during her education and early career in the tech industry. This episode also highlights Tumi's strategic pivots during the COVID-19 pandemic, where she shares the emotional and mental toll of entrepreneurship and the resilience required to adapt and survive in a rapidly changing market landscape.
We wrap up with a powerful discussion on building a borderless African tech ecosystem and the importance of authenticity in contributing to Africa's broader cultural narrative. Tumi emphasizes the need for local solutions crafted by Africans for Africans, and the significance of community support and global partnerships. Tune in to be inspired by Tumi Oryaku’s unwavering dedication to empowering developers and driving innovation, and gain valuable insights into the future of technology and entrepreneurship in Africa.
Subscribe and show some love. Ubuntu.
yes, yes, yes, yes, thank you so much. Thank you so much for joining us. It's a beautiful day. It's a beautiful day and today, africa's talking podcast in collaboration with impact masters podcast, brought to you by mk or michael Michael Kemali if you want Amazing, amazing guest, you have today. You can hear her from afar laughing. She's amazing. And today we keep talking about Africa and African stories, bringing you Impact Masters. And today we're joined by the guest coming all the way from the land of Mtsansi, south Africa, if you want.
Michael Kimathi:So, before even we talk to our guests, today it's something that is amazing, that is happening across Africa, the 54 countries, and they keep growing. I feel like we should just combine all of them and we have one continent that is united with one purpose and doing amazing stuff, especially in tech. I'm so selfish with this, especially in tech, because the three things that that remain constant across music, entertainment and technology. So today we have a Tumileng Mohagi or Tumi Mohagi, but she prefers to be called Tumi Ariyako, oriyako, oriyako. She will tell us why, and I think we were talking earlier and she wanted you know, to understand how this goes.
Michael Kimathi:But I think also this is important for women, who are making moves, movers and shakers and she's really big. To show you how big she is, she's a co-founder at Invoice here and country head in South Africa at Africa Stalking. She's based in the city of Johannesburg, south Africa, and she's done amazing stuff, especially with developers. She's so passionate about them, helping them, connecting them, giving them free stuff to test their solutions, among as many other things that actually she does day to day and I work closely with her and I'm so excited from day one when I knew her, and I'm sure you guys are going to be excited. So, without further ado, without so much shenanigans, I want to welcome Tomi Mohagi. Tomi, how are you? I'm good.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Oh my goodness, this is so exciting.
Michael Kimathi:No, I mean it is yeah, welcome. I'm glad that you found it Well done to you guys.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Congratulations, thank you so much.
Michael Kimathi:I mean, this podcast is awesome, oh yeah, yeah Also congratulations. And it's not just podcast, but also there is a video rolling, so you're going to see her. You're going to see how beautiful she is. I'm trying not to get the camera told her let's go and do some coffee. Can I not prepare? You know, I'm looking homely and all that. I'm like the people you'll be talking to, they don't judge, so you can tell us all this. So, Tumi, how are you?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I'm very well. I'm so excited At last you're doing this, and I'm honored.
Michael Kimathi:I am honored to be invited to do this me too.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I am so honored. Accepted the invite. I am sorry, guys, get what she told me myself uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.
Michael Kimathi:This is what she said. Let me see what she said and I love this. To me, I really love this. I love this. Let me see quickly yeah, yeah, this is really good. Is that your mk? Let's do these where you at? I'm like that's amazing. I love that energy and that's what actually changes things. If you don't know, yeah, that's that actually changes the dynamics of things. So to me, uh, when we have these conversations, we like to know who you are, not just you know the stuff that is in a profile and stuff like you like presenting to the corporate world, like who are you? Where were you born? What is it like? You know, where did you go to school? How was it?
Michael Kimathi:You know, things that actually someone, when they listen to you, they're like you know, that's me, maybe you know back in the day and actually I can be this, I can be this and I can be able to like reach out and say you know what? This is, what is happening. Yeah, how can I figure that out? And also figure it out, so tell us about you.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:That's never like. That's one question I don't know how to answer properly.
Michael Kimathi:Just answer yeah.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I'm going to give it a try. Yeah, I'm going to give it a try. So I am known as Tumi Mo'achi, yeah, but my full name is Itumeleng Mo'achi Oriyaku. So, yes, I would say my business profile and my professional profile. I'm known more as Tumi Mo'achi, and at home I am Tumi Oriyaku, a mother, and at home I am Tumi Oryaku, a mother. Tumi Oryaku is a mother of a wife. You know, I'm a giver. I take care of my family. I have two kids Wow that's beautiful. So that is.
Michael Kimathi:and just before we started recording, by the way, guys, these two kids look like Nelson Mandela. If you have a chance to see who they are, you'll either greet me or just tell me you got your dream, but they resemble.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I keep telling you you and many, many other people, which is weird, I think my friends from West Africa and East Africa are like oh, he's a little Mandela. I'm like where? Yeah?
Michael Kimathi:Yeah, they look like Nesma. You know, this is something that actually I think shines that star that maybe they're going to do great stuff. I really hope so.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I really want the best for my children. Yeah. So yeah, that's Tumi Oryakru. That's my personal profile. My professional profile I am Itumeleng Mo'ahi. Otumi. Mo'ahi, I'm an entrepreneur. I would like to believe that I'm a problem solver. I really believe in community, in handshakes, making things work, collaboration, um. So that is what I do professionally I join the dots. You know I'm very big about partnerships.
Michael Kimathi:You know about cooperation, cooperation and you're really good at things.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:You're so good I really hope so yeah um, there's no, there's no hope with this.
Michael Kimathi:You're good. You're already doing amazing stuff already. Okay, I can say that because I work closely with you and what you have achieved so far, I can really say you are good. I really you are a definition of people who are supposed to be doing partnership, because you do them happily and also you make everyone feel taken care of and even beyond that, you follow up, which most people after the partnership has happened. They don't follow up, but we'll get there. So where were you born? Where did you?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:school. I was born and bred in South Africa, in Gauteng, soweto.
Michael Kimathi:Did you say Soweto? Yes, you know. When I visited South Africa, they told me you better take me to Soweto. So I can see how it's a big culture. That's where the Amapiano came from right?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yes, I think so.
Michael Kimathi:And I think the older journal, what was the name? The one that those three, I think there are two ladies and a guy.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Is this music? You know, I really like it, no problem.
Michael Kimathi:I Is this music, you know I really Okay, no problem, I don't have my facts when it comes to music. Most of the journals actually they've been like originated from that and then being evolved. Now they are big in the world, but that's because I love music, yeah. I feel the problem.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I always say I always struggle when people ask me about Amapiana and I'm like I don't, you don't you don't love music I. I don't know why I'm not a music person.
Michael Kimathi:I don't know why never even listen to any music.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Um, I, I do listen to music, but I, oh, I'm a taylor swift kind of girl, oh you know, okay, so that is africans.
Michael Kimathi:we need to convert one of us, but I like funny I like East African music.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:The pop you like in band. Ah, Sao Tisou Sao?
Speaker 4:Tisou. Oh, my goodness, give me Sao Tisou. What's up, what's up, sao Tisou.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Anytime, anytime, the vibe, yes, yes. That was like. That's also how my husband won my heart.
Michael Kimathi:In a that there was like, that's also how my husband won my heart in a way okay, we see you, we see you okay.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:But yeah, so, born and bred in Soweto, that was after the whole apartheid of okay, well, I was born in during apartheid, but, like I would say, I don't think I was, I don't think I've experienced it as much as you know how my parents did, because I was young. You know I was still small, so raised in Soweto. I grew up with, I was raised with my mom and dad, of course by my mom and dad, but I lived with my grandma, oh right that was when we were small so my mom and dad lived at my grandma's place okay it's like one of those community.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:My grandma is a nurturer, so she, oh, she was a nurturer. Her beautiful soul continued to rest in me, so we lived there until, I think, until I was around nine, ten I think so and then um.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:But I do have memories of daycare. You know, my grandma would fetch me, or our neighbor which would fetch me. Um, my grandma would fetch me, or our neighbor would fetch me um. My mom would usually be at work. And, funny, at that age my dad was not around because he was a construction worker and I guess, this is the the effects of apartheid, oh yeah where he would be working out of town.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Um, you know, to try to make ends meet and I would only see him probably after two weeks yeah he would come home every fortnight for a weekend and likes yeah, so that that is my my um kindergarten memory and then primary school. I went to um, uh, I then started living with my parents after they had bought a house and I think also that memory reminds me. So that memory of primary school and stuff reminds me of community and that's probably where it comes so naturally in the work it reminds me of community, because even our teachers at daycare knew our neighbors.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:So it's not like today, where it is quite strict and more business. Yes, it can only be, your mom or dad or you know you need to actually sign a paper to say who can come fetch your child. Yeah, then they knew our community members and there was a big, a good relationship with them yeah so, um that, that memory really um attaches me to community, it reminds me it, it gives me that feeling of exactly what, how community molded me right um and then um, moving to, to, to my parents house.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:That taught me a lot about independence, right, because my mom I mean I have very humble beginnings. You know I'm not from a wealthy family and stuff, so I've seen my mom and dad work hard and for peanuts. I've seen them sweat sweat, sweat for peanuts. And that is why I'm saying I am grateful that now we're at the age, and that's this is why I love tech.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I'm grateful that we're at the age where collaboration is the north star, yeah, of success yeah right, yeah because, um, I saw how my parents did it by themselves yeah, was it more competition for them or? No, no, it's just lack of opportunities. My mom at that time was a till packer. Yeah. My dad was a construction worker. Yeah Right, my dad would come home fortnightly because he worked out of town. But that man worked so hard, he studied so hard, did not get recognition, but he continued to work and work. It's not like he was a bricklayer or anything like that. He's never been that.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:He was always a safety and health officer, but because he was black, he could not earn enough. He got the job, but he did not earn enough. And I've also also been in a position where I work hard, work so hard. But, my white boss told me I want to promote you but I can't Because you're black and because you are young I was 19 years old then Because you're young. So yeah, there's, you know the effects of our country's history.
Michael Kimathi:There's so much you can do.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yes, she literally said it. I want to promote you because I can see your potential. Yeah. But our environment does not allow me to do that, so I'm assuming my dad went through the same thing.
Michael Kimathi:And this is you at 19.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Now you can imagine, maybe during apartheid and all these other things that are going on in South Africa, went through the same thing. You know, and this is you at 19. Now you can imagine me at 19 and you know all these other things that are going on in south africa me at my first job. Yes, oh, my god. So, um, yeah, so I think the the working hard thing yeah, I got that from my parents because, I've seen how they struggled for peanuts yes, yes and I.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:We were so poor I didn't know how we're going to get out of poverty. It was, it was. You know. You know when you're in a situation and you have no exposure.
Michael Kimathi:You don't see tomorrow you don't see tomorrow. You're like if I live today and I'm alive tomorrow. I'm going to fight again. I've been in that situation. I'll tell my story. I know how that feels like. Yes, it's really hard, and now you have children.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yes, really hard. And now you have children, yes, who you don't know what's gonna happen to them, in case they pass the exams and with them I want my my children to know that, um, they need to fight themselves out of any situation. Yeah right, yeah, um. Yes, right now things are cushioned. It's nice you know, because they're young but even as young as they are, they need to know how to fight themselves out of a situation, because we're not going to be there forever they need to know how to be creative.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:One thing about poverty you will be creative.
Michael Kimathi:And innovative at the same time.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:You will be innovative Because you don't have any other choice. You do not have any other choice.
Michael Kimathi:And you have no one sometimes to fight for you at the position of influence.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:And I'm mentioning poverty because that was my struggle. Yeah. Right, and I'm sure people have other struggles, you know, outside of poverty.
Michael Kimathi:True, true.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:But I'm just mentioning what I had to deal with. So yeah, that is where I just want to explain the kind of person I am, how I you know please, by all means community was like. You know what I? I think, um, when I'm thinking about where my love for community started, it's definitely from getting the love from the people around me and having the safe, that security, knowing that I'm at daycare, my mom's at work, someone's gonna come for me, yeah, someone's going to come for me. Someone's definitely going to come for me. Yeah, yeah.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:And when I was in primary school to high school, I had to witness hard work through my parents, you know so when my parents couldn't. Okay, so the high school I went to it was one of those, you know um, one of those ghetto high schools where, um gosh, wait a minute to me yeah.
Michael Kimathi:So primary. You were in kindergarten, so primary school. How was it?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Primary school. It was also in one of those um it was better than what we got from.
Michael Kimathi:Soweto. Yeah, it was a bit of an upgrade, so it was outside Soweto it was outside of.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Soweto. It was a bit of an upgrade, so it was outside Soweto. It was outside of Soweto. But it was also in a rough area. But it was an upgrade from a high school. So I needed to go to an English school, so that's where my parents took me.
Michael Kimathi:What language did these people maybe went to, you know, primary school in Soweto spoke?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:In Soweto we spoke Setswana, so they were teaching your home language, depending on which school you went to.
Michael Kimathi:So even English actually was translated to Setswana.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yeah, so you get books in Setswana. You math, you study it in Setswana. Biology, whatever it is that you're studying, you do it in Setswana.
Michael Kimathi:It's so hard to understand Because I'm sure even there are different dialects. Hard to understand? Yeah, because I'm sure even there are different dialects. Maybe there are different accents and sometimes translation is not the right, the perfect one, perhaps.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Perhaps, but I was too young to even really know that. Yeah, because. I think I did primary school in Soweto for a year. Yeah. And then I went to another school and it was that was a very good school a very good school, but they had some administration issues. So I only went there for six months. That was grade two, yeah, and then in june I was then moved to another school to grade three so I did two grades in one year wow that's amazing yeah, in that year it was the same year I had to learn english.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I remember remember my first day at the Bupilo. That was the first English school I went to. I got into class and I went there during the year. So I think I started around February, March, something like that. So I got there and the teacher's like close the door.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:You know what that means. So I look. She's like close the door. I don't know what it means, so I pick up a piece of cloth and I give it to her. She's like close the door. That was embarrassing for me. That was so embarrassing for me and the kids are laughing at me.
Michael Kimathi:Because they think there's another. Yes, like who's this they call them in Nigeria, mumu Mumu, that has now to speak English.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:And I don't know why that memory stuck with me, but it always did.
Michael Kimathi:It always did. I promised myself that yes.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I promised myself that you know what, and probably that was where my need to learn started. So I picked up English, and so research says that if you teach a child in their mother tongue, it's easier for them to pick up to learn. English Other than the other way around. Yeah, and I believe so, because during that period I picked up with English, I learned, and when I went to the second school in that same year, I actually got an A for an English assignment in that class.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:And to me that was a very proud moment, because I had just gotten there and I had to write a speech about my favorite animal and I wrote about how I love tigers and I got an A and my teacher was so impressed.
Michael Kimathi:But to me you are also smart. So that's why I say how people speak doesn't define how smart they are. You cannot just hear someone speak and you say you know what, you know? Yeah, because accents in.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:English. We have a way as and I don't know if this applies, I don't think from my experience in other African countries nobody really cares how you speak your English. They care about the message.
Michael Kimathi:But in South Africa we have, yes, we have this class. You know classism.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:If you speak well, you fit in. You fit in a lot of stuff you know and if you don't speak so well, we laugh at you Like did you hear how he pronounced this word? And that's also what I grew up with in primary school. If we had foreign teachers, it's like oh, did you hear how he pronounces this word? And how he pronounces this? What, yeah? And how he pronounces this.
Michael Kimathi:What yeah, so you focus so much on things that really don't matter?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yes, and I went to a school where the accent is different. It's very sharp. So people, they don't talk like this. They used to talk really hard. What? What does that mean their pronunciations was pronounced like was deep?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:So we call them colored schools, so those are a mixed race. You know when, when, um, uh, people that are mixed race, so perhaps black parents or, uh, you know, uh, white parents with indian, yeah, just the the mixed race. Um, yeah, descendants, yes, yeah, so that's what, um, that's the kind of school we went to. Because of that, laughing at people that can't speak English. I had to learn, I had to teach myself how to learn how to speak proper without pronouncing my T's like a T. I don't talk like this.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I talk like this. I did not go to a school where there's all whites and stuff, no, but you had to learn. You had to learn how to speak f and because I had insecurities about my poverty, I did not want to be outcast like do me. You can't be poor and not speak well and not study you cannot be. Yes, choose your struggles, yeah, you know, yeah, and I remember in primary I never used to study much.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:You know, I never used to study. I didn't like it. I don't know how I used to embrace education, but I did not like it. It was only when I got to high school that I had to remember, I had to know. And because you're young, you're in primary, things are easy. Yeah. Right.
Michael Kimathi:It's easy to pause. Yeah.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:But then it only hit me when I got to tertiary that, no, I need to focus. Yeah, you know I need to fight for myself. Yeah. And that also contributed from like a bit of bullying.
Michael Kimathi:Yeah. You know, so in primary school were you bullied? Yes, how?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:We had, you know, some guys in our class that he would just come and just take my stuff.
Michael Kimathi:Push me around, you don't matter here.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yes, I would report him to the teachers.
Michael Kimathi:But nothing will happen.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Nothing happens. I report him to my dad. On days when my dad is able to come to school.
Michael Kimathi:He would come. Yeah.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:But I think bullying has something to do with how people are also raised, because they don't care they feel always powerful more than you know this guy used to take my pens all the time and I would tell him. I'm gonna tell my dad yeah and he's like your dad's gonna come to school for a pen, you know.
Michael Kimathi:I thought about it like that's so traumatizing for a little girl.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:He's kind of right, I'm sending my dad to this school for a pen. I need to find a way to fight for myself. Yeah. And I found a way to build a relationship with my bully. That was the only way it could work for me Okay, okay, that was the only way, I think, I still remember his name.
Michael Kimathi:His name was Ashley.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:As your partnerships comes in, Okay, no worries, yeah, go ahead. I think that was the only way I could build a relationship with him. So, if he took my pen, I'd be like take it, I have another one, you can have it, you know. And now he started to come to me when he lost his pencil. Like yo Mwahi, can I borrow your pencil, Mwahi? I'm going to take.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Take it you know like you're speaking. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like take it actually. Yeah, you can have it. You know, yeah, um, and that that. So it doesn't mean that he stopped. I still feared him a little bit, but I didn't show him yeah this time I was like I'm not gonna show him, I fear him. I'm just gonna build that relationship so I'm not vulnerable yeah, right, yeah high school, I still got bullied okay I like my bully.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:This time she was bigger than me. I was so scrawny, I was tight, I was skinny. So every time she would chase me around a classroom I would go under the tables and she can't go under the tables because she's bigger than me, you know. And. But I also learned how to use humor to cover up for myself, to teach myself how to protect myself. So that's when the bullying subsided, I think the one thing that taught me how to build relationships was that my friends would laugh at me when I was getting bullied.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:They couldn't help.
Michael Kimathi:Yes, they couldn't help.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yes.
Michael Kimathi:They wouldn't speak.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I remember I once had a friend that I thought she was my best friend. Yeah. And she would always laugh at me when I'm getting bullied. Yeah. And that's when I was like I need to monitor the friends I make, the relationships I build, and I need to learn to detach from whatever it is that is wrong. I just have to. You know it's okay.
Michael Kimathi:Put a block and you know, move on.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I'm not going to be liked by anyone.
Michael Kimathi:Yeah.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:But whoever likes me, I will give, I will give. Yeah, yeah.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:And perhaps that also speaks about why it's so easy to work so hard in a community, because, even though I'm not a developer, yeah, I will attend a hackathon yeah with ease and mentor the devs. You know, uh, provide assistance where needed and if there's technical assistance needed, then I would direct you to the right person to say let me link you to this person, he's gonna sort you out. And now, with that kind of a relationship building skill, people actually find comfort comfort in with coming to you and ask for help yeah because you know how to sort their problems out.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:You might not be the person that's gonna sort it out, but you are the person that links them that connects them to what they need, you know? So, yeah, I think, maybe, maybe that's what made me the person I am today. You know all the little struggles that I had to go through and understanding or finding smart ways, if I may put it that way, and finding smart ways to leave or to get out of a struggle, yeah, so you joined that.
Michael Kimathi:This is high school. And finding smart ways to leave or to get out of a struggle, yeah, yeah. So you joined that this is high school. That's why you're in primary school, You're bullied. High school, were you also bullied? Yeah, first few years, and then now you go to tertiary education. Was it the same case or everyone was focusing on like do I make something out of myself?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:So I think another reason why I was bullied was because I was always the weirdo. So you see, yeah, you see how people like music, people like this, people like that I don't know.
Michael Kimathi:I was always like, sort of like the outcast, you know, laid back. Yes, when everyone is sharing, you know what's cool, what's happening?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:yeah, I'm not, you know I'm not the one in a group of like in a group and in a deep conversation no, I'm not in clicks yeah, I could never do clicks yeah I'm always probably the kid that's walking alone
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:yeah, you know yeah but everyone knows you and they like you, but I'm just the one walking by myself, um, didn't have a click. So even in tertiary I would have I had a group of friends, but I was always the one that would laugh at the most. You don't drink, you don't party, you don't you know you, you just like school. So in tertiary, um, um, I went, I went to a private tech college. So, and when I went there it was I studied IT programming, right, and I remember the first year you do A plus and N plus and programming and, of course, marketing and all of those business and stuff, and for your second year you have to choose between networking and programming. So in my class and we only had one tech class- yes, I don't know why.
Michael Kimathi:What do you mean? One tech class?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:There were just 20 of us in a tech class.
Michael Kimathi:And that's it.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yes, the rest went to tourism business and marketing.
Michael Kimathi:I see yeah.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yeah, so all 20 of us in one class, and out of the 20, I was the only programming student.
Michael Kimathi:Who chose I want to do programming. I was the only one that chose programming, yeah.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Everyone else went to networking. Yeah. Everyone just preferred N+. Yeah, and I cried. Why. Because our dean then was like we. I cried why? Because our dean then?
Michael Kimathi:was like we're going to have to move you to a different branch where there's more programming students.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:And I was like but I want to stay here, I want the because I was at the I wouldn't say the coolest, but the more. What do you call it? The upper class, the upper class branch?
Michael Kimathi:Oh, there are some affluent people.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yes, yes.
Michael Kimathi:People also are more friendly.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yes, more friendly. It was not as crowded as the other branch.
Michael Kimathi:And, given your background, to adopting to these people who see you differently. You didn't want that experience. Yes, yes.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I was so afraid of that exposure If I'm going to go to another school, where there's masses, you know. People are going to think I'm a weirdo and stuff like that. I cried, I cried, I asked him. He was like if we keep you, you're going to have to get 100% in everything. You know that's going to, because that's you know that's going to, we're going to have to uphold the grade.
Michael Kimathi:And right now you have no one to reach out to.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Nobody. Nobody in my class wants to do programming. But do you think that?
Michael Kimathi:decision was more selfish. Like you know, you're investing all the resources to teach one kid. Why can't we combine these? And you know.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I guess from the school side it was going to be a waste of resources.
Michael Kimathi:Yeah, yeah, that's how I feel, because at the end of the day, it doesn't make sense.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:You're investing so much into just one person, where that person can use the resources of another branch. So I had to get over it, tried it out and then the next year for my second year I went to the bigger branch and, funny enough, the people there were very welcoming very accommodative, very different cultures. I think I made more friends there than I had at, the more.
Michael Kimathi:Were there more girls in that side.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:There were a little bit more girls than there were in the first branch.
Michael Kimathi:Oh, I see.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:But I don't know why the girls that we had in the second school didn't want to work as hard. The guys were more focused. The girls didn't. I think because of that time, because that was around 2007. Oh yeah. There was not enough exposure into tech. Yeah, true, true so some of them were trying it out.
Michael Kimathi:And they couldn't understand why we couldn't understand.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:And I mean, I think, also the teaching style, because we got there and I was still confused. I was like I don't understand programming. I don't understand it.
Michael Kimathi:So there was also a problem with the teaching.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I think so.
Michael Kimathi:Yeah.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I feel like if, if, if, because the exposure I got at the other branch was different. Yeah. That's what made me love languages you know. And then the, the, the second branch I got.
Michael Kimathi:It was like here's your textbook, you guys go learn and stuff you know um and you're like the same experience you had, but now it's with more people having the same, because now you're going to learn for yourself the same way we would have exactly yes, exactly, I felt like I could have just done that harry could have given me the chance at yeah but um, I then just, you know, teamed up with people that know what programming is and most it was majority guys, I think the girls that were.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:There was only three of us that were really passionate in in class about programming yeah three girls and the rest were like the guys that were working hard yeah, um, I remember once we were writing an exam and I think it was Project Logic and Design we used to call it PLAD and this girl again, this girl sitting next to me and I'm writing. I'm writing Just as I'm about to get done, she grabs my paper and gives me hers. I'm so shocked. What happened? She just swapped our papers. I'm like what just happened?
Michael Kimathi:That means you have to start all over again.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yeah, she's like shh, and this person hardly attends class Hardly. If she does come to class, it's a Friday.
Michael Kimathi:What does she do throughout?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:the day, I don't know, she copies or something she writes and then she brings it back. Luckily she brought it back, but just as they were collecting and I was like what?
Michael Kimathi:Were you done when she grabbed? Yes, I was done.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:And I wasn't aware that she's looking at me, because I'm just busy writing.
Speaker 4:And then, just as I'm done, the last. Yes, she grabs it.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:So I'm in shock and I'm panicking, because had our lecturer seen that? He was going to think it's a, it was an arrangement, yeah right, and I was going to fail yeah I was probably just going to be cancelled on that, on that class or that exam yeah so I'm shocked and I'm panicking and I'm looking around. I'm like what is why? Why is this happening to me? What, what is it about me?
Michael Kimathi:that people see that you can take advantage of why is it?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:what is it about me that makes me look like so easy to to?
Michael Kimathi:easy target. Yes, you know, and she gave it back.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I was just relieved, I, and I immediately gave my paper away. I didn't even you know after you write an exam after you, you're done. You want to double check your answers? I did not even do that.
Michael Kimathi:So she put you in a disadvantage? Yes, she put you in a risk.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I was like why.
Michael Kimathi:And also she made you ask yourself a lot of questions.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I guess at that point yeah.
Michael Kimathi:What's happening. Did you pass the exam though? Yeah, I did. I loved PLAD.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Project Logic and Design. I've always liked it Nice, so maybe that's why I also like Project Management and Style yeah. And then we had system analysis and design. We used to call it SAD. That is like you know, you would understand system analysis and design SAD.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:That's like, oh, that is like all the you know you're planning all the SQL stuff and whatnot and relationships and stuff like that. So yeah, but I mean those were the kind of subjects I enjoyed when we got to tertiary and that was something that made me fall in love with tech, because I've never had exposure to these things In high school. When you go to computer class, it was just an Excel sheet that was already opened for you and you know that's where you would learn to type. So in tertiary.
Michael Kimathi:That's when I got my first computer because of the projects we got so that you can explore other things that exist in a computer that's how I got into tech.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:That's what made me excited. You know, we were still burning discs, I mean music onto a disc.
Michael Kimathi:Yeah, they're called diskettes. You guys use diskettes, right, or you just use the CDs.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Before we had, we had that.
Michael Kimathi:What do you call?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:it. Yes, we had diskettes right, and then we had CDs afterwards.
Michael Kimathi:And then DVDs and now flash discs, and now we're moving to cloud.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Now it's cloud.
Michael Kimathi:It's yes, and now we're moving to cloud.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:So now it's our process. I don't even have a flash drive.
Michael Kimathi:Someone will listen to this 50 years to come.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:What are they talking about? Cloud, I know cloud.
Michael Kimathi:We're talking about CD and the skates and you know DVDs, cloud, maybe it will be something different. That's how tech moves forward, I think from the years you've said is more than 10 years ago.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yes, yes, yes, it is yeah, and it actually does feel like it's old.
Michael Kimathi:No, it's like 10, 12 years, 13 years, people use diskettes.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yes, which could not carry one MB Floppy disks, that's what we used to call it Floppy disks. Floppy disk, that's how old I am, oh my goodness.
Michael Kimathi:No, come on, guys, like 12 years ago, that's what people used yeah.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:So yeah, that's where my tertiary journey started.
Michael Kimathi:Wait a minute. Three MB of space.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Imagine.
Michael Kimathi:Three MB.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:You would save your Word document in there and then you have another fluffy disk for your Excel and then your PowerPoint and your access file and your yeah, it was Word, excel, powerpoint, access. That's where, like you know all the relationship things.
Michael Kimathi:You can't save a photo in that.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:No, you couldn't no photos no music.
Michael Kimathi:Just it has to be a very short you know, document that doesn't have too many pictures yeah, yeah, and now we have micro sds which are one terabyte seriously, yeah, yeah yeah yeah yes, and the one that we're using here to record is like 128 gb. Just a small piece of. That's how piece of plastic yeah, yes it moves so fast that sometime, if you're not catching up, you'll just be, you know, redundant yes yeah, so go on, go on. Sorry, I had to mention that so that people get the context of what actually happens and I like that.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yeah, so people really understand, you know, like the, the uh, and I'm sure I mean this has been brought up in some of the courses and stuff that hey you know, this is where we started, but the reality of it.
Michael Kimathi:I think, Turing something whereby the technology changes after every 18 months. Yes, yes, and it doesn't just change or improve, you know, in small margin it changes altogether Everything that you think you knew. You need to relearn or maybe upgrade your knowledge about it.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:That's the thing about tech you cannot use two years ago's knowledge today. It does not work. Even six months ago it does not work. So yeah, I think that is something I've always liked about technology. I wanted an industry where I need to constantly learn. I really need to constantly be learning something new and always be because you have felt like an outcast for so many years in tech, you find your people. We are all weirdos in our own right. And it's fun and it's like being in the creative industry.
Michael Kimathi:yeah, creatives are weirdos that have accepted themselves and they like themselves and they see things and they see things differently and they embrace it.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yeah, so that's also tech yeah I feel like people in tech don't have to explain themselves, you know yeah unlike if I'm going to be in business, there's a structure and a way to look and feel and do themselves. You know, yeah, unlike if I'm going to be in business, there's a structure and a way to look and feel and do things you know, but in tech, it's you you are enough, and you come as you are, as long as you have a drive for knowledge you know, um and um.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:So yeah, there was. There was tertiary and then after tertiary I really thought I was going to get a job in IT. I was excited, but also economic pressures you know there's pressure, pressure, pressure to find a job, because you can't just be at home and try to find a job. It doesn't work. So I found a job at a media monitoring company and we did media analysis. So anything that's on the news the radio, tv, newspapers, magazines.
Michael Kimathi:Did you guys listen to the TVs the whole day? Yes, Writing notes Even adverts Were you writing notes or recording.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Okay, so there's different departments. Okay. There's print, there's broadcast Right Print. There's newspapers and magazines. In those there is um, there's daily newspapers, there's weekly magazines, monthly magazines, business animals all the different types. So there's different, different types of customers, right, and they want they will tell you I'm getting mentioned in this particular newspaper and, uh, so you need to tell them on which page they got mentioned and you need to show them a clip of the article and you need to measure the worth of that article financial worth.
Michael Kimathi:So you have to write a whole report.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Advertising value equivalent. So if you were to place an ad on that paper, on that same page, on that same spot, it would be worth this amount.
Michael Kimathi:Why was this important?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:This is for PR, so public relation offices on that same page on that same spot. It would be worth this amount. Why was this important?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:This is for PR, so public relation offices use it to know the worth of their brand, right, if you want to know what is Africa's Talkings worth? And I tell you, you guys got featured in five front page newspaper. I mean in five front pages of a newspaper, a daily newspaper that is read by five million people in the country. And then so that matters, that detail matters to the PR managers. It's like quantifying what value you'll get if you advertise. If you were to advertise, what is the value of that particular?
Michael Kimathi:You think that's still a thing, or is it just it's still a thing.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Media monitoring companies still exist. It's just that things are different now, because everything is online. Yeah.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:You know, and now we're looking at a click per second, we're looking at different kind of metrics instead of print, even though you still have print papers. Even though you still have print papers, but people don't really read hard copies as much as they would read an article online. And by the time you get a hard copy, it's all new and you don't frame hard copies anymore. These newspapers I'm telling you about in 2008 and 2009, you would cut it, they would frame it if it was good news.
Michael Kimathi:We were in news.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:The big telcos, you frame it. Yes, it means something to them and the executive members. They want that piece of information before even they wake up in the morning. You know how we wake up and the first thing we want is Twitter or this and that. That was the first item they want. I want to know what the world is saying about my business, Because then I need to have a response before 8 am.
Michael Kimathi:So you monitor it in every.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Every article we used to monitor.
Michael Kimathi:So how many dailies did you read before midday?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Oh gosh, in Joburg alone, I think we had 13, 7 to 13 days how many were you?
Michael Kimathi:whoa, the company was big no, the guys who just ran these dailies oh, there would be around 12 people okay, so at least two each, or three each one, yeah, so yes, two each.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:So, and remember, you're looking for different things. You have people that are reading for the banks people that are reading for the telcos people that are reading for community banks people that are reading for the telcos people that are reading for community.
Michael Kimathi:Did you do this overnight? Now that you said, you know the CEO when he wakes up?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:They start at 4.30. 4.30 am you have to be in the office.
Michael Kimathi:It's like how radio morning shows work. You have to be there, maybe do your research after a while Don't need the storage room.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yes, exactly Wow. Don't these destroy it? Yes, exactly Wow. The print monitors. They come to work around. So the newspapers, if they drop them off at 3 am, the print monitors have to be there, and this was the days of scanning stuff.
Michael Kimathi:Now the print papers are available. The fax age there's a scanning machine.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:There was these huge, super expensive scanning machines that would scan the newspapers into these for OCR, so that it's faster for the readers to punch in the keywords and find our customers. If you want to be fast. So that by 8 am, we have all your coverage. And then you also have the broadcast people that would be listening to the 8 am news Five minutes, five minutes. Five minutes after they mention you, we have to send you an SMS.
Michael Kimathi:You say just five minutes ago, they mentioned you.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:And they're saying this and this, so you must respond now because broadcast is as live as online, right? If I call the radio station, I'm complaining this news to me.
Speaker 3:I never knew this exists. I'm complaining this news to me.
Michael Kimathi:I never knew this exists.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I'm complaining about the president of Kenya, the presidential spokesperson.
Michael Kimathi:Or press.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Or press, so anyone has to. I mean the presidential spokesperson has to have a response within five minutes.
Michael Kimathi:Yeah, I know this actually happens with the president. Yeah, you know, because at the end of the day, that's how they know what is going on where and everything, but never new companies. Actually at least articulate about how they mentioned, when they're mentioned, where they're mentioned yes, and it matters where you are mentioned too.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yeah if you're mentioned in some station that's full of propaganda. They don't really care, they'll they don't even have to respond but, if the prominent ones, you know the big stations, the ones, that where business go, because that's where the investors are right, then you want good press right, then that's where they would have to make sure you're always on the ball with these stations. And then you had the analysts. The analysts are the people that go through the items that we've been monitoring for a certain period of time.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Some companies wanted their monitoring. I mean analysis every week, bi-weekly, every month and every quarter. The motoring industry they want it every month. They want to know if they're launching a new product, a new model. They will be on their watch Every week. They need to know who are the magazines that are reporting about their cars, who are the reviewers of their cars, what are they saying If they paid someone to review it. They need to know that those people got press coverage or broadcast coverage and it needs to be analyzed, you know, because they need to take that back to their leaders to say South Africa is saying this about this German car yes, so this is even overseas kind of conversation that is happening in real time.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yes, it influences, and let me ask this to me. Even international brands like fashion brands we used to do precise monitoring yeah I can't mention brands of course but, you would be surprised at the kind of brands that we were, the ones that you would pay high prices to just get a bag yeah, what are people? Talking about yes, we got mentioned in in south africa on this particular magazine and you need to measure it. You need to measure the article.
Michael Kimathi:Tell them what it's worth and where was it?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:placed yes, what that mention is worth and they take it back to the head office to say this is what they're saying in South Africa about us. This is how much the store is making.
Michael Kimathi:So we need to push these kind of products to the SA market.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:So do you understand where?
Michael Kimathi:yeah, so this one of like top PR, uh, you know organization in South Africa yes that one was the, the biggest and the best? Do you think also that, also informed, how you know, we have most of the stores, most of the companies opening in south africa or um.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:This was just you know yes, I think, I think media monitoring just um did influence a lot of the, a lot of growth in in a certain in particular uh markets yeah yeah, because, like you said, that exposure yeah, they want to monitor that exposure so that's what? Yes, yes to know whether it is actually worth an investment or not, you know one of the biggest. I remember I used to do everyday reporting and analysis for one of the biggest millers in SA.
Michael Kimathi:What kind of miller Beer?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:And brewery it was a brewery, so they would report every morning to London to say this is what's happening down in SA and there was so many, so much investment flown down Coming from.
Michael Kimathi:London. Yes coming from.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:London to SA, Because of that coverage, you know, because of that exposure it grew them yeah. It grew them so much.
Michael Kimathi:Yeah, yeah. To me this is really interesting because I'm learning so many things at the same time, and I'm sure anyone who will listen to this, will listen to this, will learn this. Yeah, and this tells me a couple of things. Number one is that you cannot take things just for granted. You need, you know, analysis, you need research.
Michael Kimathi:You need to put people every single day worried about what is happening on the ground, how your decision are informed and all these things. But nevertheless it also gave you a lesson that you have done all these computing stuff. You know you have done programming, but now you are here analyzing data. You know writing, done programming, but now you are here analyzing data. You know writing reports, working under pressure, because I don't think if you guys like even from for that, you have pressure to deliver at 7 when these people wake up. What did you learn out of all this?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:you need to be very precise and intentional you need to be intentional and very precise Customers, don't? So when a customer complains, you need to understand. You need to understand their complaint. Yeah. To you it might be. Ah, come on, I missed an article. It was just one article out of 50 that I give. But, to them that one article means so much to them. It influence, it has business means so much to them. Yeah, it has business influence.
Michael Kimathi:Attention to detail. Attention to detail, you have to be very precise. Yeah.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I also learned to work hard. Yeah. So when I was in that company, I used to work with people that have been in the company for more than five years and they haven't been promoted Because and they did not mind.
Michael Kimathi:I don't know why. Or they just accepted their fate and said you know what?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I have a place to be because when I got there yeah, so the first thing I got there as an admin person- okay and I told myself I'm not going to be admin forever, yeah. I went to my supervisor and I told them I'm going to work hard to prove to you that I'm capable.
Michael Kimathi:You're more than an admin.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yes, but I'm more than admin. She told me that you are the reason I'm able to take leave. I can now take leave. No, that was not a promotion.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Okay, I see I was doing her job, but I did not. Yeah, you are, so it was. I was doing her job, but I did not have the title and and even the pay and even the pay. I will tell you how I sneaked into the system. I wanted so she was a very nice boss and I could understand the dynamics that they had and that it was not in her control. Yes, she was white, she was Afrikaner. Yeah.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:But she did not have control. She everywhere where she could place me to be seen, she would do it. Yeah. But she had no control of how leadership made up their mind. You know, she would mention me in, in, in meetings, she would mention me in places that were speaking about growth yeah but she had no influence over you know, uh, what management does about that yeah, so the best we can do is I'm just gonna do your job when you're not here.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:You know so I so we can prove that the work can get done. I ended up being the supervisor of around 20 more or 40 people, so I was a supervisor of two departments, and these are people older than me.
Michael Kimathi:There are people that are 60.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:60-year-olds that have been in the industry for like 5 years, and I've only been there for a year, but I was able to know more than they did, and this was because I had a thirst for technology the curiosity why this is happening how can we do things faster? How can we move more? How can we be more swift in?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:our processes how can we move more? How can we be more swift in our processes? How can we be more efficient without draining ourselves? How do we create a culture where people are able to express themselves? And I would get feedback from the people. I'm supervising that, wow, since we are under your leadership things are more fun.
Speaker 5:The pain might be the same. The frust pain might be the same.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yeah, you know the frustrations might be the same, because we're still monitoring, you know yeah but we there's job security like we feel. We feel like we belong.
Michael Kimathi:You come to work and you're not thinking anything negative about your boss and stuff like that and that to me that was rewarding yeah, that was very, even beyond the pay, even beyond the yes.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yeah, yeah, you know was very rewarding, even beyond the pay, even beyond the title yeah, you know, and because I couldn't get the pay I wanted and grow the way I wanted, I then started building relationships with my customers, nice.
Michael Kimathi:Right Nice.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Because I need recognition, I need to be known in the industry. Yeah, right. That if you want something done, dumi can get it done for you. So that is how I also got some exposure. Unfortunately, that company got liquidated because of bad leadership. What? Yes, it got liquidated.
Michael Kimathi:When you were working there. Yes, one year down the line.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:It was two years. Two years down the line, yeah, two and a half years. There's no more company, no more company.
Michael Kimathi:So what do you do at this point? It was too much pressure.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Going through liquidation? Is you know when you find out about liquidation? Yeah. Or the way we found out. Yeah. It was sudden.
Michael Kimathi:I hope it's not in the news that you peruse every no, no, no.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:It was before Twitter got smarter you know smarter than us. Yeah, we just once had a company meeting and they're like yo, there's no money, we're liquidating the company. Wow.
Michael Kimathi:Just like that. Yeah, and you're in denial. Right, you're like no no, no, maybe these are pulling our leg and they're also sounding hopeful.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Oh, we, we're speaking to this bank and this bank. Maybe they will invest, and whatnot.
Michael Kimathi:And then you know, this is done.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:You know it's not going to happen. And now you're looking at unions. Now there's unions coming to you guys telling you oh, we can help you get a severance package, we can help you with this, with that, and you invest so much of your energy into these conversations, hoping to get something out of it and you don't To me. That reminded me of poverty. What it reminded me? That everything can be taken away. Everything can be taken away from you, yes, and when you are the most vulnerable, that's when you get now leeches coming to you and saying I can change you.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I can change you, do this force, force yes everyone like let's go left, let's go right, let's go up. I remember we once went to pretoria and we were waiting the whole day for I don't know who from the union was supposed to come and do what or update us about when our packages are coming out or what they had said to management. But I waited. We waited there a lot of us, all blacks and nobody came, or if they came, probably they didn't give anything substantial and I was like I'm not doing this again. I wasted a day where I could have been job hunting yes.
Michael Kimathi:I do not do this and how far is it from what was this? Is this Cape Town or no?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:no, no, this is Pretoria. Pretoria and Joburg like 60, 60, 60 kilometers.
Michael Kimathi:So that's like one hour, one hour drive.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yes, and you're using public transport, so it becomes more than an hour. So it's like a Matatu to Joburg can take you 45 minutes. A Matatu to Pretoria will take you an hour and 10 minutes.
Michael Kimathi:All these places are close by. Yes.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:If you drive, you get to Joburg in 20 minutes. If you're driving to Pretoria, you get there in an hour or in like 40 minutes it depends on how you're driving. I see yeah. So, but because you're using a matatu trust me, it's going to go through.
Michael Kimathi:You have no control of how things are happening here.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yeah, so it takes you like two hours to go and attend an empty meeting, and you know. So that struggle just taught me.
Michael Kimathi:Nah, I'm not going back to poverty.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:And then one of the ladies that we used to work with was like hey, I just spoke to some of my contacts and I'm just going to open my own media monitoring company. You want to come work for me? I was like yeah, sure, yeah, went to work for her, why not? Unfortunately, not, unfortunately, didn't work out because, also, work culture is a thing and, um, energies did not match you know our work, culture was, was clashing yeah so I left yeah and when I left I was like I'll start my own.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:So I I got a business partner. We started our own. Actually, he was the ones one that was like, hey, let's do this. So we did it and it was good, it was profitable.
Michael Kimathi:What was this business?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:It was media analysis as well Media monitoring and analysis. It was good, profitable. I liked it. I think to date it was still my favorite business. Because, I was young, I could do anything to explore.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I was hungry and I was angry because I don't want to go back to poverty. I had to cash out on all my insurance to feed money into this business, right? Um? Okay, the business didn't didn't work out, but not because of lack of customers. I had very good, lucrative customers and I would share a little bit of what I learned from one of my customers there but it didn't work out because of again, you know, you need to be careful when you start a business. You need to choose your founders or your co-founders carefully, because that affects the business, that affects the growth of the business. The vision I had for the business was different to what my business partner had at the time.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:And I was more tech focused. I really yearned for tech. This was the time where Twitter was now becoming popular, where you could find news on Twitter before press and stuff like that and I was like no, no man, we need to move. Yeah, social media monitoring is now becoming a big thing it's no longer just broadcast in print yeah but then you know, the person didn't believe the same. You know, um, and then I was like yo, I'm out because I'm not growing yeah, it's my own business, yeah it is my own business.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I love it. Yeah, I love it because I get to make my own money. I'm my own boss.
Michael Kimathi:Yeah, I get to hire people and we work together and we enjoy working together yeah, but changing lives yes but, it's not working out.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I'm not growing right. Yes, I've got control, but I'm not growing I went to true. I went to my competitor. I told him look. I'm leaving. I'm leaving.
Michael Kimathi:That sounds funny, but it's not so you go to your competitor to finish your own business. Thank you, guys.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:No not to finish it. Are you that pissed or no? No, no, so, no, no, no. You wanted to make a point it. I went to my competitor and I told them we're struggling with social media monitoring. You guys are doing good at it and we're good partner. But then when I go back to communicate this to my business partner, he's like what you want us to work together with our competitors oh, I see and I'm like you know, there's a thing called co-op petition.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:You sign, there's a contract, you sign where there's certain boundaries that your competitor cannot cross.
Michael Kimathi:It's more of a partnership than a competition. Yes, it's a partnership.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:They cannot approach your customers, you cannot approach theirs. We do not poach each other's customers. You know we work together. We grow each other Like nope, not doing any of that. Yeah.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:But then. So that's when I felt like it's not going to work and another thing that pushed me out of this, that showed me I was not going to work. We had a big customer I cannot mention names, right, but one of the I cannot mention names- it's okay, yeah. We had a big customer, like one of the top agencies in South Africa was our customer. Yeah.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:And so we were starting to underperform. Because now they're getting so much coverage and we are limited with staff and I can only do so much, yeah Right, and we need to upgrade our technology, and, and, and, and. So they call me, they call me into a boardroom. Yeah. My client, gavele is his name. He grilled me, told me do me. I know you can do this, but I cannot stay with you guys to keep messing up.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I cannot keep convincing the CEO that we need to continue with you guys to keep messing up. Yeah, I cannot keep convincing the ceo that we need to continue with you guys, because to her, she doesn't understand yeah if this youngsters, if these youngsters are incompetent, find another company, go hire a white agency that has, that's more organized. That hurts me yeah because, first of all, this is my competency we're talking about and my business. I don't want to be seen as clumsy. Yeah.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:And I know what the customer is talking about, because I was seeing the loopholes. They were growing and we were not growing with them.
Michael Kimathi:Yeah.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:We were not growing with our customers.
Michael Kimathi:We delivered so well.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:We were running out of resources because technology keeps evolving. Technology keeps evolving. Yes, we're doing things. Our infrastructure was now outdated. Yeah. Right, we needed to invest and it would not have made sense for me to seek for investment, to pull back Because, again, my vision and my co-founder's vision was not the same yeah you get it. Yeah, so we would be investing into a mess. Yeah, right, and now? Because there's money involved, everyone's gonna have their own desires for what they want for the business, and if there's no alignment, that's a clash I wanted to cry in that boardroom.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:My voice was shaky as I was talking. Tears were almost coming out of my eyes, but I knew I needed that tough love. When I left, my customer walked out with me and he was like you do understand that tough love. I was like I get it. And I appreciate it, and that was also how I knew I had to leave, because I'm now tarnishing my brand.
Michael Kimathi:You're not going to take it anymore.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Exactly, and I'm tarnishing my own brand. Yeah. You know, yeah.
Michael Kimathi:My own professional brand is now getting tarnished and they're built for some time, though. Yes.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:You know. And then I went to my competitor. I told them look, it's not working out for me. I know I'm the co-founder, but I'm not growing there. And I told them you know all the reasons why I feel I'm not growing. Yeah, um, and they did understand that I'm not sharing information. It was not malicious, it was really just to I was sharing what I am going through, sharing my vulnerabilities to make to show them that I am honest. You know, I'm honest and I want to come work with you guys. There's so much I'm going to learn through you guys because you are at a level that I want my company to reach, but I am leaving. The only condition was that, okay, I cannot work for them and run the company of course, so I left.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I left.
Michael Kimathi:What was the name of the company?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:It was Media Savvy. Okay, yeah, it was Media.
Michael Kimathi:Savvy Okay yeah, it was Media Savvy, yeah, yeah.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:And I started working for my competitor Awesome.
Michael Kimathi:It was awesome they were more accommodating, more supportive. Oh, it was Welcoming new ideas.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:And that is where I also understood partnerships. Yeah. And cooperation. Yeah.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Understood that my competitor is not my enemy. My competitor is my partner and if I build a good relationship with you, we are growing together and we've come to a point where, even when we were applying for tenders, we speak to our partners. Okay, you apply for broadcast and this I'm going to apply for online. Yes, if I get it, if you get it, if you get it, you'll get online from me. If you don't, if you get the, if you get you know your contract, you'll get this from me.
Michael Kimathi:Yeah, we both gain and you win yeah, we win yeah seriously.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:So that that's what I learned, and, um, I didn't last. I told them, though, when I joined them, that I'm only joining you guys to learn so I'm going to last for a year.
Michael Kimathi:I cannot make it more than a year. Yeah, and they were okay with that. They understood okay they thought I was lying so that you come love it and you know yeah they thought it was oh no, you're going to stay.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:You're definitely going to stay longer, but I longer. But I only lasted for a year and then I applied for a tech program MEST in Ghana and I got through. And then I moved to Ghana, because then there was, and I told them, I've got a thirst for tech.
Michael Kimathi:I've got this curiosity for technology. Which year was this?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:This was 2007. I've got a thirst for technology.
Michael Kimathi:I'm in 2017.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:And I'm going to move to Ghana. I've got a thirst for technology.
Michael Kimathi:I'm in 2017. Oh, 2017.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yeah, and I'm going to move to Ghana. I've got a scholarship and I'm going to go there and study, advance my knowledge about technology and business. Yeah. And hopefully I come back and I'm able to start my own company again. Yeah.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Then I went to MEST after a year. That's when we co-founded Invoicia and so what we do at Invoicia we provide access to working capital. So customers, let's say you're my customer and you pay me after 30 days after I've delivered a service and you have other customers that you need to serve. But because you've got this bulk of money locked with me and if you wait 30 days, you're going to lose you know, with your next supply, yeah, we give you we advance you a loan against your invoice so that you can go on with other business and then, when your customer pays, when your customer pays you're able to pay.
Michael Kimathi:You're able to pay back.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yes, yeah right, so that that's that's the interest involved. Yes, yeah so, um it's it, we used to charge like five percent interest right on on your invoice. Yes so um, and, and that works did you?
Michael Kimathi:did you have like upper bound, lower bound, that you can't ask more than these?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:When we started we didn't, and that created a problem. Yeah, of course you know once a business comes and they get $10,000, and now because they're growing. The one thing I love about Invoice here was that our customers were growing so fast, but then that was a problem as well yeah, because you don't have like, yes, liquidity, liquidity, yeah and what we do.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:We outsourced funds from our investors for us to be able to, for, uh, to lend to to those smes and um. So now a business would come for two thousand dollars, three and three and then five, and then, because they keep growing, 10, 20, look, we can't give you more. You know we also are out of resources. And another thing credit is a very sensitive topic in Ghana.
Michael Kimathi:It's not as well structured. Oh, this is only happening in Ghana. Yeah, Invocia is based in Ghana.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:And then we had to change the narrative a bit, because now we needed to de-risk this wonderful solution. Yeah. As much as we're saving. You know like we saved a lot of businesses, especially through COVID. Yeah.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Through COVID, we helped businesses predict what was coming and we were able to find unique ways to give out loans. We also tried giving out loans to your mom and pop shops, because they had more demand during COVID than the bigger stores and unfortunately finance comes with education and the smaller stores. Sometimes they don't want to give the money back.
Michael Kimathi:True, true, you know. So they have all the excuses that you can look for to pay back. Yes, yes, you know.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:so that trial didn't go so well. But with the bigger companies we were able to get a chunk of our cash back. Okay, but then we knew that to get a chunk of our cash back. But then we knew that this was a risk. The money I lose means that I'm losing an investor, right, because now the investor confidence is also dropping and now we're partnering with banks.
Michael Kimathi:We give the technology to the bank, so you don't deal with the customers directly.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:We don't want to deal with the customers directly anymore, so you don't deal with the customers directly. We don't want to deal with the customers directly anymore. So how we work is now either we find a financier that takes all the risk and funnels their money through Invoice so it would be the financial institution that will be lending using our platform, and then we just do the monitoring and the analysis for them, the loan generation and stuff, the overall process.
Michael Kimathi:Yeah, and when did you figure out? You know this is not working. You know as much as good well-intended. You make losses, the investors are leaving.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yeah, it was when we picked up that it's too risky. It's too risky. And again it's too risky. It's too risky, and again it comes with growth.
Michael Kimathi:And which year was this in the business 2020.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:So that was like three years down the line, so Invoice is still running.
Michael Kimathi:But you're pivoting how you are carrying out business.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:So now we're pivoting, and because it's now more tech, I don't need to be on the ground anymore in ghana I don't need to be our. Our clients are more b2b, and covid exposed that we can actually hold a meeting remotely, close a deal remotely. If I have to fly down to go sign a contract, that's what I did last year yeah went to fly down to sign a contract.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I'll do that, yeah, but then otherwise everything is done remotely. Now we're engaging with banks, we're engaging with the regulators and such, and now that's another challenge. Some countries' regulators are stricter than others.
Michael Kimathi:Some are not so structured.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:It comes with entrepreneurship, oh gosh the stress, the stress, so for me it felt like I needed to find myself again as much as like Invoicia worked. It was. Invoicia is my favorite problem to solve. Anything that promises survival for businesses, right, we? There are so many businesses that we saved, especially through covid and that means so much to me yeah that means so much to me because through uh during covid, people lost their partners lost their incomes, you know um, and they had to start shops.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:They had to open up shops, the industries, those industries that you thought were lucrative, like our biggest customer before COVID was the tourism industry and that was from whatever to zero. To zero, absolute zero, and our biggest customer became mining.
Michael Kimathi:There was a point where gold and oil, you know, were and this is in Ghana, or in ghana, or in south africa, in ghana, okay, in ghana.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:This was all in ghana yeah and um. So during that, during the covid period, I was like okay first of all we need to de-risk the business, yeah, and if we're going to go completely into software, yeah. It gives me more time on my hands. Now most of the work goes to the devs, the partnerships and stuff I could do remotely. But I also felt overwhelmed because imagine three years of running a business right and haven't really taken a break, haven't really taken a breather.
Michael Kimathi:The partnership is hard. Yes, it is hard, it's hard work. Sometimes people work without pay. You're putting your best foot forward.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yes.
Michael Kimathi:You make sure everyone else is paid Trust me. And you don't get paid.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I was surviving. Yeah. And I will expose myself. Yeah. I was surviving on $500 a month. Yeah, and I have a kid in.
Michael Kimathi:South Africa. Oh, oh, but this time you've had a child, yes, okay I have.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yes, so when I went to ghana, I really had my child okay right and he was three when I left oh, I see when I came back, he was seven yeah so I have all that long.
Michael Kimathi:Yes, who stayed with your boy?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:my parents. I had to because, you see, yeah, um, as much as I loved working at my competitor right, I was not earning enough to build the kind of future I wanted for my son. Yeah. And the only way for me to get that is to really get into tech. Yeah. And I got that opportunity through MEST.
Michael Kimathi:Yeah, so you had to make that hard decision it was a very difficult one. Yeah.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Even at MEST they asked me are you ready to part with your three-year-old? Yeah. And I told them I don't have a choice. Yeah. If you know my history, you would know I don't have a choice. Yeah. You know, yeah. And yeah, I'm ready to go.
Michael Kimathi:You're going hard, you putting your best foot forward, which actually, I'm sure for ladies you know who really get into the business, they need to understand.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:It's not easy, it's not Neither is it easy to work for someone Emotionally. So there's nothing easy Emotionally.
Michael Kimathi:Yeah.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Mentally.
Michael Kimathi:Yeah. Physically.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yeah, it is not easy, yeah.
Michael Kimathi:Now, at what point? Now do you just say you live, you're living in Ghana, ghana, you know this can be done remotely. Now I'm going back to South Africa. What is that that you had in mind by the time you're going to South Africa?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:so I okay. So with me. I felt a bit um oppressed by the by by the environment, right um the fact that in Ghana we were not getting the opportunities we could have gotten if we were running in a different market. So you feel like South Africa is more well placed for this, even if we come to South Africa today, even if we come to Kenya, because I was also looking at partnerships- in.
Michael Kimathi:Kenya, we would grow faster than what we did in Ghana 10 times, 20 times 5 times 10 times more than what we are doing. So the market there was not that receptive for this idea.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:No, because credit is not respected. Ah, you know.
Michael Kimathi:I see.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:One of our biggest customers and that we had loaned close to like $30,000,. They delayed with with payment and and what they said to us was but why are you guys pressuring us? I'll pay you. I'm like you do know. We have investors that are waiting for their returns and their principles yeah it's like, yeah, but I don't, I use the money for something else, I'll pay you guys. So that to me, yes.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:So that was why it was so important to de-risk. It's important to de-risk your business. Lending is, trust me. There's a reason why the banks and I'm saying this with caution and all due respect there's a reason why the banks are so cautious yeah with lending yeah to be unbanked and stuff if they don't have data about you. It's hard to trace you. Yeah, when you when, when things are tough oh yeah do you understand, because people like the the attitude that you come to me when you ask for money it's different when it's time for you to pay me.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Now I'm the one begging you, Masa, please beg Pay me.
Michael Kimathi:Are you saying that Africans need to change the way? Maybe they trade it? Yes, they should look at it as an investment Actually you can take the money put it into good use and also pay it and grow, because if you and I've seen even banks, I know big uh like fortune 500 companies that have been built with credit? Yes, right, yes, so it's doable people build wealth on credit do you think we need more education?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:on those lines. We do so, yeah, okay maybe we should do a session around that so um but not right now, of course yeah, my financial advisor used to tell me that, um, mostly, or my then financial advisor when I had one. He used to say that mostly black people get dumb credit what's that? So you can buy food on credit. You can buy a car on credit. You can buy clothes on credit, so I can wear this li on credit.
Michael Kimathi:You can buy clothes on credit Liabilities.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yes, I can wear this for six months and still be paying for it 20 rands every month and by the time you're done, it's worn out, it's no longer. By the time I'm done eating my food. I have debt I have to go pay, you know.
Michael Kimathi:Yeah, so there's no much value in that credit. There's no value in that credit. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yes, and that is how you start building a negative relationship with that credit. And you also become being a reckless. I mean, you become a reckless spender Because you don't know the value of credit. Meanwhile and this used to happen in SA, where credit rates for blacks and whites are different- Right.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:So the whites would get a particular rate or they would get access to particular credit like housing and stuff, and the blacks wouldn't. So we get all the dumb stuff like oh, you can buy a car on credit, you can do this all the liability. And when it comes to property, there's so much you have to do to prove that you can afford that you are able to pay back, that you are trustworthy and it's not the same you know for the race.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:So those are the things that you know. The regulators them are trying to fight, yeah.
Michael Kimathi:But actually this even needs to be approached in a way like also there is injustice if you think about it, but as much as that is there because you know right now. Whatever you know, strategies that you put in, they need to be smarter than what actually has been set for you, because it's all a setup if you think about it. So maybe there needs to be more open education, like look, you can start from here and that's the way you'll be able to say you know what. Look, this is injustice and you can be able to address it. Yes.
Michael Kimathi:So you just decide this one is too much.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:So not that it's too much, but I'm not growing in this market so for me I felt stagnant. Like I was telling you I, my income was five hundred dollars yeah my child is growing yeah he was now moving from kindergarten to primary school yeah right, yeah, um, he needs uniforms, he needs a proper education and he's getting older. I cannot be stuck in a market that does not want to grow with me yeah, right yeah, so the best thing for me is to just go home.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna start afresh. Right, I've built a rapport now yeah well, I've built a portfolio for myself and I'm sure I can get something good when I get home, Because now I needed to work in reverse the same selfishness that I took when I was leaving South Africa to go to Ghana, when I left my family and my son, my parents and my son with my parents to go to.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Ghana, I had to do the same thing. Now I'm leaving the investment I thought I made and I was it hurt. It hurt because I left my son.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:No, I left my son. I told him I'm going to bring, I'm going to build a better future for us. So for me to make the decision to leave my day-to-day running off in Voisia and come back to South Africa, it felt like I had failed and we need to communicate this as co-founders and as entrepreneurs in Africa that we are afraid of failing from our businesses because people will think I'm a failure. But now I had to do the reverse and be selfish and be, like whatever dream I had here. I tried yeah.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I tried to build it yeah and it did not come out as well as I thought it would yeah now I have to go home and apologize to my son for not bringing the future I thought we would have. Mommy is not coming back as the CEOo or the see what you know, the, the, this, whatever sea suit of this successful company that we wanted to raise funding. And, you know, become big and take over africa. Yeah, I can't achieve that. Yeah, to go home and I have to apologize to my son for not doing yeah, I left you for four years and I did not make it what Right?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yeah. But I was not giving up. Yeah. I knew that my apology has to come with a backup plan. Yes, yes. And a friend of mine saw a post Africa's Talking hiring for a country manager in South Africa and he was like this description is you? This is so you and I applied and went through a series of interviews and, because of the time difference, I'd be taking my interviews at 4 am in Ghana. What?
Michael Kimathi:4 am, 5 am, but you said I'm not in South Africa, but I'm planning to go back there.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yes, I told them and I made it very clear and transparent that. I am a co-founder, but I'm not doing day-to-day running of Invoice here anymore, so my energy will be now focused on, you know, building this new league of my career now.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:You know I'm no longer a co-founder and the chief operations officer. I'm now longer a co-founder and the chief operations officer. I'm now coming as an employee and you know we had to talk the people that were hiring me at the time. We had to talk. Are you ready for this? Because now you're going to be an employee? Yeah, and the one thing I like about the Africa's Talking culture is, in a way, nobody tells you what to do. True, true, right. You are still allowed to be in your own playground and do stuff to some maximum capacity.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:As long as resources are available, you are able to push through push through and because of the culture at 80, it was the break I needed, the mental break I needed from the pressure, the hustle, the tension of being an entrepreneur, Because being an entrepreneur is glamorous on the outside dark on the inside. There's so much that weighs on you. You know that $500 I used to earn it paid for my child's school fees and his clothes and feeding back home my feeding in Ghana.
Michael Kimathi:You have to hustle.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Rental in Ghana. That's only $500. Yeah, do you get it Like it's not enough Some days?
Michael Kimathi:you don't even have food over the weekend.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Some days we'd attend hackathons for free meals. What Nobody knows this.
Michael Kimathi:And these are co-founders.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:We are co-founders Do you understand.
Michael Kimathi:Show some love to these guys. And nobody knew this.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:And maybe it was not even the same situation with my co-founders, but I know that we had a community where you know your people like there's a free event, there's food, is there food? Yes, let's go, we're going to eat and stuff and we get free t-shirts.
Michael Kimathi:so I ended up wearing free t-shirts most of the time, so you didn't need the clothes.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yeah, I didn't need to buy to shop because I'm in a tech environment, right?
Michael Kimathi:uh, we're all wearing so you're saying this swag goes a long way, to like build the ecosystem, right guys in the ecosystem, swag matters swag matters.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Swag is important. Swag is what made me look like girl is not suffering you know because I'm like I'm wearing a For Loop t-shirt I'm wearing this hackathons t-shirt, this and this.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:You know, and people recognize you also for that, like it's, like the brand association. People recognize you. People see that, okay, you're doing this, you're doing that, you know, and they want to know what you guys are doing. You know what does this mean for you to be at this event and you, you know what does this mean for you to be at this event. And you're networking, yeah, you're building relationships. So, anyway, got the job at 80 and you know, um, yeah, I love what I do. I really love building. Um, I mean, you, you are, you are cutthroat, you are the killer at what you do. You know, uh, um m, you really are good at community building. Thank you so much, jimmy, you're so kind. But this is what I want to ask.
Michael Kimathi:You'll get there. How good I am, that's a story for another day, but anyway. So there's something that is fascinating that is happening in South Africa. Even after interacting with you, I'm really impressed. There are a couple of black developers. People are intentionally like we want to build this. There are people like Startup Nation there are.
Michael Kimathi:Mitchells of the day, people who are intentionally building this ecosystem from scratch. What do you think or what do you think can be done to make sure that these are propelled to the right levels whereby, if Amazon is hiring, they compete equally? If we are building startups, we build scalable startups, Because I feel like, as much as there's all these tech giants and everything that is happening, we need African solutions that are solving African problems like what you guys are trying to do Amazon, Google, Facebook now they have to downsize, you know yes because they've um overhired yes, we are.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Who are getting fired first of course, of course, it's obvious yeah, office was closed.
Michael Kimathi:Sorry, guys, if you listen to this, maybe 2011, 2100 years. Uh, once upon a time, twitter opened Ghana office, the first one in Africa, and now that it was acquired by our African from. South Africa Elon.
Michael Kimathi:Musk. He decided you know what I'm cutting and I don't blame him. Maybe it's a strategy that I need to cut some workforce that I don't feel like they're bringing value to the company. But unfortunately, our new Ghana office we're calling it Africa Twitter office was the first one that was supposed to be closed completely by 1st December 2022. So can you imagine An office that was opened by the Ghanaian president. By this time, if you listen to this and you are one Africa, you used to have 54 countries with boundaries and different presidents.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I want to put that in context, because I feel like I want us to touch on that actually, especially when it comes to you Exactly, so you know the president opened his office.
Michael Kimathi:Yeah, it was so pride moment for Ghana and Ghana ecosystem, but it's getting closed. Yeah, yeah. It's sad.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:So yeah please, by all means. The question here was about now what is needed. Yeah, you asked what is needed in the South African market and I want to answer it more in a context.
Michael Kimathi:Yeah, yeah, for sure, because what works in South Africa, I can assure you it will work in 54 countries. If they replicate, it can work and there's one good thing that happened that I'll share afterwards, if you don't mention it.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Oh, I love good news. Okay, so, and yes, I was saying that. You know, the big three that we mentioned are now downsizing, right, and what we need are solutions, like you said, for Africa. Yeah. Solutions that address Africa's problems. Yeah, and these are supposed to be built by us, the Africans. The Africans yes, because we look, if I'm going to build a solution about credit, it is because I have built a business that suffered with money. Yeah, and I know how. I know the frustration of my customer. Yeah.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:And you work best when you understand the problem. Yeah For AT to come about. They understand the problem of the developer.
Michael Kimathi:In 2G.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:In 2G yes.
Michael Kimathi:Because when AT was building there was no 3G, there was no prospectus of getting these networks In 2G. To understand.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:So we understand our own problems and only we can solve it the best way that is required, using the resources that are needed, right so what the ecosystem requires, we need to empower the devs. Yeah. We need to make sure resources are available for the devs? Yeah, and this is done to communities Right. Yeah. We don't have us as community managers. We don't have the answers. Yeah. Do you understand? Yeah, I get it.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:We do not have everything in a gift pack, yeah right, but if we build a community, then we're building a network yes, if you need this resource, speak to this person.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:If you need this finance, here's a link to whatever investor or an ngo or whatever that's you know, helping you raise a grant or something. Because developers are part of a startup's ecosystem. They're the people that build a solution right, and for a solution to come to market, it needs marketers, it needs business developers. So that means you need a technical head, you need a business thinker, you need someone. You need a technical head, you need a business thinker, you need someone that's good with marketing. You need different resources for you to be able to get your technology out there. I cannot just bring a developer and say give me a kick-ass solution and then, if we don't roll it out properly in the market, it's dead.
Michael Kimathi:If it doesn't scale, it's dying, it's dead. Yeah, you know yeah.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Exactly so. It's an ecosystem. That is what developers need. That is what we need, yeah, and that is why it might not work for your Amazons and stuff, because they have everything. They have money, yeah, they have talent. Yeah they have money, they have talent, but they don't have the African blood. Do you know what I mean?
Michael Kimathi:they do not have the African thirst and also they don't understand what our problems are.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yes, so, and if you're gonna, so, yes, it's obviously awesome to be hired by you know the get hired.
Michael Kimathi:I have my own you know reserved opinion about that, for whatever reason, yeah. So any opportunity that you take, I'm not saying don't work for anyone. No, please, by all means if you qualify, do so. Yes, there's no one who just lands in isolation. It's a global economy anyway. So even if you know they ship you whatever they will ship you to work, please by all means just know those kids are needed at the end of the day and if you feel, by the way, like settling there, please don't feel guilty.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Do not by all means. There should be no guilt.
Michael Kimathi:Everyone has to win and make your own personal decision. But what you're saying is, africa will still exist. There's 1 billion people. They're underserved in different levels and that's a market that is ready for you.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Exactly, and that is why, when we host hackathons, that is why, when we're looking at partners, we're looking at your Amazons. They have the money, they have the resources, we have the talent. Yes, do you get it? Yes?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:We know the problems and that is why that partnership is required. We know the problems and that is why that partnership is required For sure. Do you understand? So what Africa, what South Africa needs is to build an ecosystem, because no man is a silo, no man is an island, and it should not be that way, and that is why I like tech. We are a community. Developers are such a community.
Michael Kimathi:They always work together and they're always looking at ways in which they help each other grow and the entry level. Actually, I would say it's affordable.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:It is.
Michael Kimathi:You need a laptop and a working computer. Look, I mean a working internet when things are tough.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:If things are really tough. People even code on their phone. Absolutely.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:They will tell you. I learnt how to code. I used my phone. You know, Look like we need resources where we take away such stuff, where we give, we're able to give people phones. I mean um laptops yeah to be able to, to learn how to code, to expose them to business incubators, so that, beyond just typing, yeah we actually have a project that you're working on and that can go to market and that is why you and again, I'm not trying to sell at here but that is that is why we're building this community right, because we we want to have a full circle where, when a developer comes in, they're like guys, I don't know how to code, but I have interest.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Come to our hackathons. When you find a laptop, if we're not at the stage where we're able to provide it for you, then you make means, you get a laptop, you learn, you build a product. We give you resources. You know we now have a startup, a startup pack, so we give you resources, affordable and next to nothing.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:And you're able to reach a market yes, You're able to test and reach a market and if you're ready to scale, you're ready to be serving the rest of Africa. For sure, you know and now as to what Africa needs borderless, it doesn't make sense right, it might not make sense to many, but we need borderless. It doesn't make sense. It might not make sense to many. But we need borderless.
Michael Kimathi:It doesn't make sense.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:It doesn't it doesn't matter how you look at it.
Michael Kimathi:From up there down here, from the waters. It doesn't make sense and this is good news that I think we're heading to the right place, but we're taking some time. I think when this African Union the right place, but you're taking some time. I think you know when this, you know, africa Union meets, I feel like one of the things that they can do, maybe even if they want to spend a week there, to deliberate and come with one solution that remove water. Yeah.
Michael Kimathi:We don't care. If you know, maybe the poor nations come the rich nations, it's workforce, you know, at the end of the day, of course someone will lose a little bit until someone gets to where they are, but over time we'll thrive all together at once. And what South Africa did? Because for a Kenyan to go to South Africa you needed to take I don't know the visa used to take two weeks. Sometimes you're denied and all that.
Michael Kimathi:And these two presidents sat and said you know what? Most of the you know planes flying to Kenya, they're most South Africans, because for Kenya, actually any person from, I think, 54 countries if I'm not wrong. Maybe you can check that later they can just come in and get, worst case scenario, get visa on arrival. Which actually makes it more closer than any other country. I don't see why a country in Africa or another African citizen, whichever country they come from, a visa.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:For what reason, I don't know. I also don't see it.
Michael Kimathi:It's not like the biggest revenue generator it doesn't even make sense.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I'm not sure if is it because our countries are not ready for migration, but it's natural, yeah migration is a natural thing, absolutely so. Are we still holding on to to visas because we're not ready for migration? I'm really not sure, but yeah, yeah it's time for us to open up. We've also just rolled out the the africa free trade agreement. You know that requires, know that requires openness.
Michael Kimathi:Absolutely. That requires openness.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:You know the technology. If we're going to look into advancing technology for Africa, things like visas are not required.
Michael Kimathi:And now they're looking at e-visas. I don't know if it's you I share this with, but I think this with. But I think in 50, 70 years, if you're still requiring people to get a visa to come to your country, it doesn't matter if it's Africa or otherwise. No, it's something someone would be asking is it really worth it?
Michael Kimathi:Exactly, I'd rather go to a different country, yeah, but Africans, please African president, you have this on your court and also Africans, because now, like in South Africa, you don't need a visa to go in. I don't know.
Michael Kimathi:Five countries or so, and now Ethiopia, actually for the longest Kenyans don't require a visa to go there, but there are some countries you arrive and they make the process as complex as someone who required a visa. So I'm like you guys choose your struggles. Do you want people to get visa or not? If you choose not to get visa, treat them like these country citizens, because at the end of the day, mostly and I'll speak to myself, most people who come to your country they're bringing opportunity Number one if I'm in your country, I'll spend money, and that alone means I'm bringing resources.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Exactly.
Michael Kimathi:If you treat me well, I'll even spend more money. So let's think about it, and maybe I know there are more complex things than meet the high, but I'm sure there's nothing that cannot be dealt with. It has been done before. There are countries that have boundaries or still have boundaries, but they have a way of recognizing that these people come from the same continent and it works for them. Why are we so adamant about boundaries?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I'm just exactly, that's what. I'm asking Are we not ready for migration? Why are we not? Because migration is natural. It's something that's been happening for generations.
Michael Kimathi:Yeah, and anyone who is doubting this, let me give them a perspective Guys, internet does not have boundaries. Yeah, and anyone who is doubting this, let me give them a perspective. Guys, internet does not have boundaries.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Exactly.
Michael Kimathi:And that's what has changed the world.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Yes.
Michael Kimathi:If you want to change the world, be like internet. Exactly To me, what's your parting shot?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:I would say this is interesting Build communities. Yeah, you know, yeah, build relationships around. This is interesting. Build communities, you know. Build relationships around what you want to achieve, because no man is an island, for sure, you know, and let's not pressure ourselves with unnecessary competition. We're not going to get far if we continue to compete. Yeah, yeah.
Michael Kimathi:Mrs Oriyaku, can I call you that?
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:yes.
Michael Kimathi:Mrs. Oriyaku. Thank you so much for gracing our show, and this is just a start. You know we are coming to South Africa.
Itumeleng Moagi Oriaku:Of course I'm excited.
Michael Kimathi:And there's more we need to do, because I feel like we should be telling our own stories. We should be authentic, we should be raw, we should be like you know, if someone listened to us, they'd say those are Africans. I can relate to those guys. It's not something that is, you know, being shaped, look like you know. We're trying to be like so-and-so, sound like so-and-so and even also clear some of our childhood trauma, you know we had to sound a certain way, we have our own right now.
Michael Kimathi:Right now, swahili is the widely spoken language in Africa, right? Yes, so there are several other things that actually us, at this particular point, can actually contribute to this and more, without further ado. Yeah, it's been awesome. And again, this is Impact Masters Podcasts, brought to you by Impact Masters Media and Africa's Talking Podcasts, and our awesome guest has been Tomi Muhagi or, if you want, mrs Oryaku. One lady in your lifetime you need to meet for sure, and we keep telling our African stories each and every day. Thank you so much for joining us. Until next time, see you.