What if the key to understanding your child's behavior lies in their sensory responsiveness? This intriguing episode invites you to journey into the world of neurodiversity with special guest Orit Berman, a seasoned occupational therapist with a specialization in AYERS Sensory integration and DIR Floortime. she has extensive experience working withchidren with developmental difficulties. We unpack the spectrum of neurodiversity and how it can shape our lives, offering an empathetic ear to parents who may be feeling overwhelmed.
We delve into the importance of sensory awareness for both self and children, discussing how our 10 sensory systems can influence our everyday activities. Whether you're an under responder seeking strategies to kickstart your tactile system or an over responder searching for ways to tune down your sensitivity, we've got you covered with practical tips and takeaways. And if you've ever wondered why car sickness happens or how sensory processing can impact family dynamics - there are some enlightening insights too!
In the final part of the episode, we reveal how sensory sensitivities can impact your child's behavior, with Orit offering valuable advice from years of supporting children with sensory processing difficulties. From understanding the seven sensory systems to adopting Dr. Sandy Gluckman's heart parenting technique, we provide an array of resources to help you navigate this intricate journey. So, tune in and empower yourself with knowledge and understanding, because understanding neurodiversity can be your key to a more peaceful and rewarding parenting journey.
The information provided in Midweek Insights is for general informational and entertainment purposes only and is not intended as professional advice. Listeners should seek professional advice relevant to their specific circumstances before making any decisions.
While we strive to provide accurate and up-to-date information, the dynamic nature of certain topics may result in changes or updates. Midweek Insights does not guarantee the accuracy, completeness, or suitability of information discussed in the episodes.
Guests on Midweek Insights express their own opinions, which may not necessarily align with the views of the host. We encourage listeners to form their own opinions based on additional research and diverse perspectives.
What if the key to understanding your child's behavior lies in their sensory responsiveness? This intriguing episode invites you to journey into the world of neurodiversity with special guest Orit Berman, a seasoned occupational therapist with a specialization in AYERS Sensory integration and DIR Floortime. she has extensive experience working withchidren with developmental difficulties. We unpack the spectrum of neurodiversity and how it can shape our lives, offering an empathetic ear to parents who may be feeling overwhelmed.
We delve into the importance of sensory awareness for both self and children, discussing how our 10 sensory systems can influence our everyday activities. Whether you're an under responder seeking strategies to kickstart your tactile system or an over responder searching for ways to tune down your sensitivity, we've got you covered with practical tips and takeaways. And if you've ever wondered why car sickness happens or how sensory processing can impact family dynamics - there are some enlightening insights too!
In the final part of the episode, we reveal how sensory sensitivities can impact your child's behavior, with Orit offering valuable advice from years of supporting children with sensory processing difficulties. From understanding the seven sensory systems to adopting Dr. Sandy Gluckman's heart parenting technique, we provide an array of resources to help you navigate this intricate journey. So, tune in and empower yourself with knowledge and understanding, because understanding neurodiversity can be your key to a more peaceful and rewarding parenting journey.
The information provided in Midweek Insights is for general informational and entertainment purposes only and is not intended as professional advice. Listeners should seek professional advice relevant to their specific circumstances before making any decisions.
While we strive to provide accurate and up-to-date information, the dynamic nature of certain topics may result in changes or updates. Midweek Insights does not guarantee the accuracy, completeness, or suitability of information discussed in the episodes.
Guests on Midweek Insights express their own opinions, which may not necessarily align with the views of the host. We encourage listeners to form their own opinions based on additional research and diverse perspectives.
Speaker 1:
Welcome back to another episode of Midweek Insights and thank you for being here, for tuning in, for showing up. Can't tell you how much I appreciate that and how much I value you being on the other end of this. So thank you. If you like this kind of content, make sure you subscribe so you can get episodes fresh as they come out ready. The goal is to share one episode every two weeks and maybe an in-between insight if inspiration drops, but in the meantime, one every two weeks is what you can expect from Midweek Insights.
Speaker 1:
Today I have the incredible mom of two, two very smart and wonderful little boys who have extra layers within the neurodiversity spectrum. Oret Burman is an occupational therapist specializing in the AIIS, sensory integration and DIR floor time. She has worked with children with developmental difficulties and learning challenges for nearly 20 years and she ran her own pediatric private practice for over 10 years. Her practice, called Held, was born through the merger of her professional and personal experiences in the world of neurodivergence. Her work involves offering support for parents with children under 12 who are feeling overwhelmed in their parenting journey. I had to listen back quite a few times to process all the valuable insights and information that Oret shared in this episode, so I hope you will find it as useful as I did, and with that I'll take you straight into the conversation. Enjoy. So I want to start with what is neurodiversity for someone who is completely unaware? Let's take it from the very basics so we can understand. That is a starting point.
Speaker 2:
So how I like to think of it is if you imagine two rainbows, the one is beautiful and vibrant and colorful, and there's obviously your red, yellow, green, blue, all of that, and on the other side you've got the same magnificently beautiful colored rainbow, but on each layer there's like an extra layer of glitter. And if, when you pick up each layer of the brightly colored one the first rainbow it is so beautiful and you can appreciate every single aspect, and when you pick up the one with a glitter, there's always a little bit of sparkle left. And I think that, for me, is how I like to understand neurodivergence is that everybody has layers. Our little kitties and adults with neurodivergence have extra layers, so they have like an extra layer of glitter and it's a little bit harder, maybe, to get rid of off your fingers, but it also means that it adds so much beauty and so much sparkle. I think that if you look at it like a spectrum, you've got people who can function very highly academically, they can function very highly socially. Then you get other people who maybe are kind of in the middle, like everything's kind of OK, it's not always fabulous. And then you get others who maybe excel in some areas and struggle in other areas.
Speaker 2:
And for me the neurodivergence just means that you're on the other end of the spectrum or reaching the other end of the spectrum, versus where everything is falling into line. So it might mean that you have these unbelievable superpowers in huge interests in something, or the way you think is so different to the kind of the run of the mill that you are able to see things in a very different way and obviously there's so much beauty that comes with it. But on the other side of that there's also a lot of struggle and you're kind of oftentimes it's like you're running upstream. And I think neurodivergence is such a broad word and it covers so much that I almost fits every single one of us into it in some level. And there's things that maybe we've struggled with, where we've had to work a little bit harder.
Speaker 2:
For neurotypicals it might come much quicker, but it's not to say everything just falls into place and everything is just fine. And no, I'm not saying that everybody's neurodiverse, but I do feel that it is a spectrum and there's some areas where you will fall somewhere on that spectrum, provided you are more functional. You might not be labeled neurodiverse, but I think if we look at it more as glitter falling, and when your kids have done crafts with glitter, there's always two months later there's your fine one on your face or something. And I really do believe that. I believe that these little people have come to teach us so much more than we ever expected or ever thought we could learn, and it's really about us opening ourselves up to seeing a different way, to seeing how we can handle it. As a mom kind of drowning through this whole system, I'm not for one second saying it's easy.
Speaker 2:
I'm living it every single day, and it's really hard, but there is truly so much beauty that comes with it as well.
Speaker 1:
Wow, I love the way you described that. That really explains it in a nice way that we can all understand. So if somebody wants to come to you, what are the signs that somebody experiences? I mean, because we could all have our difficulty with someone, with something, with an activity. How do we know that it's something that needs more assistance than your normal? I'm just struggling with something. At what point will we know that I need to seek out some help for my child? Or? I know you work mostly predominantly with children, right, not adults.
Speaker 2:
No, so this is how things are shifted. So I used to work with children in a private practice and I used to work with children with learning difficulties and developmental difficulties or delays, or whatever you want to call it. And what happened is I noticed that while I was working, these moms and dads would come in for feedback and they would be the people who are perfectly put together and drive the big car and have the perfect house and everything was in place. And they would arrive at my session for the feedback and burst into tears and fall apart and no one on the outside would realize how this mom or dad was struggling. And, as I, you realize that there's this need, but because I was working with children and you don't really have time to fully support the parents. And then we went on our own journey and you kind of go to see the people who, the professionals who you've referred to you think you know who to see and some of my.
Speaker 2:
I always laugh because there's some parents that actually want to phone and apologize that I sent them to the people Because absolutely not everyone is for everyone and absolutely what's going to work for you is not going to work for me and vice versa. But some of them as a mom, from a mom's perspective, were hairy. There was no warm, fuzzy, soft place to land at all. It was like right, you know, and I am someone who really loves the direct approach, I don't want the fuzzy, fuzzy but like a little bit of warmth would be nice, sort of very interesting for me and I really really realized that there is not a lot of help out there for parents who just need a soft place to land with someone who understands, where they can vent, where they can talk about how just life is hard. It doesn't necessarily mean you need to go back so far. Yes, there is absolutely a space for psychology therapy, all of that absolutely yes.
Speaker 2:
But sometimes we just need to know how am I going to deal with this particular situation or understanding why is my child doing that? And my practice is called held and it literally is holding you so you can hold your family. So it's really a soft place to land and there's like I have such a range of people that come. I've got kind of adults who are just really struggling and they haven't understood why they're struggling and then realizing that actually maybe they themselves have said three issues which we're going to get into more about for the first time in their life.
Speaker 2:
They're like, oh, that makes so much sense. Some of them have come in with the reports thousands of reports that they've got from people and we sit and we just piece it together and help them to understand what it all means. For some of them it's literally driving them nuts that their children are so disorganized or they themselves are so disorganized, and kind of putting strategies in place. And occupational therapy, by definition, is about function. So it's about really helping someone regain function to be at their optimum level of independence. So you know, this road is really like a big roller coaster and you don't really know what's coming. And I think what I love about Health is that it doesn't need to be. You know that you're in this therapy sessions with me for like two straight years. It can be hit a wobble. Come on in, let's work through it. It's very functional and I am loving working with the people I'm working with because first of all, I'm living it and second of all, I really don't know everything.
Speaker 2:
And kind of working together we're figuring out what can make it better, and that for me, is the most rewarding part you know, to see parents kind of land break and then figure out that they've got enough to keep going or piece it together or what can they do. Another aspect actually has been kind of the family dynamics, so obviously the mom and the dad, that then maybe the grandparents are not understanding why the child is behaving in a certain way, and kind of helping you know what are you gonna do on a Sunday lunch when there's this judgment, or you're in the supermarket and you're trying to reach about what's in it Judgment to the parents, to the parents towards the parents for not being good parents.
Speaker 1:
Is that just to clarify, yeah. Not the subplaining, yeah yeah, from the point of view of the outsider right, Because they don't understand if the child doesn't. So how do you help them with that?
Speaker 2:
Well, it's very dependent on each situation, each family dynamic. You know it's generally speaking, I wanna say 99% of the time it's coming from a good place. People I like to think people are not mean, they really wanna help and they don't like seeing their family members suffer and struggling. And I think the old school way of parenting was very much. We do and the child responds, and that's how it is. And we are learning more and more that it's not about having no discipline, it's not about having no in fact it's all about having boundaries, but it's also about honoring the person that it is.
Speaker 2:
I think for me, if we go back to, the true meaning of discipline, is teaching and we need to actually hold the children and guide them, and we can only do that if we're coming from a regulated space ourselves. So one aspect which we're gonna chat about now is the sensory integration side, and obviously there's obviously emotional, there's so many other areas and it all needs to kind of fit together. But I think you know a lot of the time we're certainly here in South Africa. I think there's a lot of helpful kids with sensory integration needs from OTs, but a lot of parents themselves don't realize until they are going through the journey with their own children that they themselves have stuff.
Speaker 1:
So Can you just give me some show signs of sensory integration needs, like if I have a child, I'm not sure my child has this. What do I look for that starts to alert me a little bit to go and seek some help, because we might just think of bad behavior. So some signs of Absolutely so it might be.
Speaker 2:
You know, what I wanna say is it's difficult because sometimes it looks like a behavior thing and sometimes it can look like a naughty child. I cannot stand that word naughty, it is too horrific. But what the population call a naughty child so it's things like difficulty getting ready in the morning. Maybe it could be struggling in a supermarket.
Speaker 2:
It could be getting home from school and throwing their toys, because now they've held themselves together the whole day at school and now everything falls apart. It could be sitting still at supper. It could be, you know, not being able to see things through. It could be very picky about, maybe, how they eat or what they eat or where they eat, or controlling behavior. It could be quite reactive behavior. It's so broad and I think for us, if we, maybe, if we go through the systems just briefly, you know, we can look at how eating every system has a way that it impacts us that we might not even be aware of, and it's I think.
Speaker 2:
I want to start with explaining the difference between sensory integration and sensory stimulation. So sensory stimulation is getting the input in. So say, for example, the child is bouncing on the trampoline. That is sensory stimulation, 100%, and that's absolutely fine and there's a place for sensory stimulation.
Speaker 2:
If you are wanting to regulate a system, you need to integrate the sensory input in. So the way we do that is, the child will need an adaptive response. So they need to be if you want to have a better word, but you need to be doing something else while you're getting the input, so they can still be jumping on the trampoline, but then you can be throwing a bunch of things and then you can be throwing a ball to them at the same time, or there can be three balls on the trampoline and they've got to jump over them. Because what happens is, if they keep jumping on the trampoline, their system actually starts to habituate, it get so used to it that you're not triggering the response anymore, but you almost jump, jump, jump, jump, jump, and you can go on and on and on and it almost loses its input.
Speaker 2:
Whereas if you add an adaptive response in, it triggers much faster and the input is going to be much more powerful and generally speaking, you might need less of it. But that does depend on the child. And then I think also we need to just explain about under responsive and over responsive. So within each sensory system you can either have, like this massive dam that needs so much water to fill it, and those are your under responsive kiddies. So they take so much, they take so long for the input to register, for it to hit its threshold, and on the other side, if you imagine a time in the lisp or cut, they just need a little bit and they bubble over or to reach it they don't need a lot at all. So when we go through each system now, we're going to keep talking about under and over responses. So we're going to keep thinking about the big dam where we need a lot to fill it.
Speaker 2:
And then the little tiny cup. And I think that, if we think about it ourselves, we wake up in the morning and here in South Africa we have loads heading right to Kime Coffee. You then wake up late because the land didn't go off, and then you've got to get the kids up and the kids are in like a mood. So it's like a bit of a tough morning nagging, nagging, nagging. Got to get going, got to get going, go downstairs. The garage door doesn't open. Figure out that. Get out.
Speaker 2:
Now you're late, now you're rushing, you're going fast, your adrenaline's going. There's so many bad drivers, the lights are coming at you like this. You finally get the kids to school. They all flustered, you're all flustered, and that's the start of the day, and so it starts building and building. So, besides for this under responsive and over responsive to specific systems, obviously we are one being, and then the input's going to keep coming in and unless we learn what things help us regulate, it just builds up more and more and more and more, until supper time comes and your children don't want to eat what you've made for dinner, and it's like the end of the world. And we cannot expect children to be regulated. If we are not regulated, it's just they're going to feed, they're going to feed off us, and it's really important that we are understanding of ourselves as well as of them, because we also are humans, believe it or not, and we also need.
Speaker 2:
We also need time to just figure out how we're going to actually centre ourselves.
Speaker 1:
So I love that and I just want to ask how can we for us and our children, what actual things can we do to regulate that? So we're getting all this stimulation, the traffic, the stress daily? Is it different for every person? Is it about discovering what works for us?
Speaker 2:
What are some of the Absolutely so, desi, should we go through the systems very quickly?
Speaker 1:
Yeah, let's do the systems, and then you can give us your tips and takeaways that we can actually use.
Speaker 2:
Because also, you know, you can be antirresponsive in one sensory system and overresponsive in another, and even within one system it can sometimes fluctuate, so it doesn't necessarily mean it's always going to be that. But if we can recognise kind of what's going on, then that's much better.
Speaker 1:
Yes, yes, yes, that makes a lot of sense. So what are the systems? Let's go back to that.
Speaker 2:
So we're going to talk about 10 systems today, the 10 sensory systems. So we're going to start with tactile, which is your touch system, and it's you've got these receptors in your skin and you feel light, touch and pain and temperature and vibration. So if your child or you are an antirresponsive person, so a big damn, you are going to want to touch everything. You maybe are someone who I mean you can see, I'm wearing this very fluffy jersey.
Speaker 2:
I am a touch seeker, I want more and more tactile seeker, but I love that, I love clay and I love, you know, anything with a texture I will sit and fiddle or touch, whereas my husband, he wants the labels cut out of his clothing because he is and he is an over responsive. The littlest thing will push him over and, and you know, the more stressed we are with work, with life, the more heightened our sensory systems become. So, around exam time for kids, around deadlines for us, and if there's financial pressure, that's increased or you're going to be heightened. So it's really nice to know which of your systems you can use to regulate yourself, as well as why you are feeling dysregulated and then what system to tap into. So so the thing for an antirresponsive is you can do back tickles you can do like little little pages that you can play with, and massages you can wear texture texture clothing and all things that are going to feed that system.
Speaker 2:
If you are over responsive, you are going to react very quickly to the input. So it might be that. Do you have you ever, like, pushed your sleeves up and then the sleeve gets stuck and the underneath one, the sleeve?
Speaker 1:
gets stuck.
Speaker 2:
So are you someone who that will irritate, or do you almost forget about it? I think I forget because I can't have a memory.
Speaker 1:
I don't have a memory of it bothering me, so I think I forget, yeah.
Speaker 2:
So for someone who is at a response, who is over responsive, that is going to bug them to the point that can think of nothing else. And if that has happened and now they are meant to be focusing in a classroom or sitting in a presentation, that is all they can think about, to the point that it sometimes is actually really sore, truly sore, hurts them. So if the chair is too hard or the duvet went past them too lightly and it like irritated them, it literally goes through them and causes them pain and discomfort. So it is the kiddies who don't want to wear shoes, who are very picky about their clothes, who want labels cut out those kind of things. So there are lots and lots of different things you can do for that. There's brushing programs, there's massage programs. There's kind of offering different ways of getting used to different stimuli.
Speaker 2:
One thing that I really love is water play, because across a lot of systems for me water play is very common because the child can have control over what they are doing, how much, and it is just tranquil. It just is tranquil. So I am not going to say always, but often a bath, be it for an adult or a child, is a very common space. Yes, yes, yes. Okay. So that's your tactile, then your proprioceptive system is knowing where our body is in space, and we have receptors in our muscles and our joints that tell us where we are. And proprioception is like standing on the podium in the first place. It is like the most phenomenal sense, because if you think of an Oreo cookie, do you get Oreo cookies.
Speaker 1:
Yes.
Speaker 2:
Yes, okay, but if you think of an, Oreo cookie.
Speaker 2:
You've got the tuba-skeptar and then you've got the mushy parts in the middle, right. So proprioception is kind of the mushy part in the middle and when you take apart an Oreo, that mushy part is always going to go along with one side of the biscuit more than the other. So the one side of the biscuit is your tactile system, your catch system, and the other side is your movement system, which we are going to get to next. But proprioception, because it is in your muscles and your joints, it is part of everything you are doing, right. So if we can get into that system we can help regulate a lot. So it is your calming and your regulating system and proprioception is deep touch, deep pressure and things like I will never forget.
Speaker 2:
I had a little child who I mean the sweetest little thing. They were very under responsive and they would come in, little five years old, little, come in and hug me, but so hard that I would actually worry they would break a rope, like just no idea of that grading of how the force of movement is. So you really do want to give kind of an under responsive. You want to give them a lot of input, them to be the ones pushing the others on the swing. You want to give them the opportunity to do pull ups. Yeah, you want to give them the opportunities to push the other kids on the swing. You want to give them opportunities to do pull ups, even adults. Weights are excellent for adults who need a lot of prophesive input.
Speaker 2:
Any time that you are pushing against and using resistance, you are activating your proprioceptive system. However, if you are over responsive, you might see that the children don't actually want to. They don't actually like it because they might feel quite unstable. They're not getting feedback back from their body. They don't really know where they are in space and it's quite a scary feeling to feel so. Things like do you know animal walks? Like if you pretend that you're a crab or you pretend that you're an elephant those kind of things are excellent. Wheelbarrow walking, pushing, pulling, lifting heavy boxes For adults, like if you're going to be going shopping by the bags of potatoes and then you can carry that to the car Pushing those kind of things can be really helpful. Trampolines, drinking through a straw, crunchy snacks Anything that's going to really give you chewing gum is also really great.
Speaker 2:
So that's your proprioceptive system, your vestibular system, which is your movement sense. We've got receptors in our inner ear that measures your position and changes in head position and linear movement is very calming and rotational is excitatory. So if your child is doing somersaults and getting completely wild, it's because their system is getting upregulated and what they need is your proprioception to bring them back down If you get very dizzy or car sick. So car sickness is having an over-enlightened system because just a little bit is looking you over. So a nice trick is you can put your hands on your head and you push down and you actually push your head into your hands and that can help. To comment, I don't think I mentioned it before, but it's quite important for the person to be active in doing the proprioceptive thing. So while a massage is really nice, that's more on the tactile side, whereas doing something resistant would be actively targeting your proprioceptive system, which will be much more regulating.
Speaker 1:
So how could you be active within that To?
Speaker 2:
do the massage yeah. So I guess more like a time massage, like where they lift you and you're pulling against them, so you're not just passive OK. Things like that. But there's a space for a massage. I mean, there's something really comforting and calming for about a massage. Saying that they're people who are drives them mad, and if someone's reflex smothering the oil and not like them, it can actually irritate more than not. So we've got to actually know our own systems, to know what works and what doesn't.
Speaker 1:
OK.
Speaker 2:
So what will you see if you have an under responsive system? They might be moving all the time, they might be jumping up and down out of their chair. They might not want to be able to sit at the table for a full sapper time.
Speaker 2:
Their devilish behavior, lots of jumping of higher areas and if they are over responsive, so it takes just a little bit of input they might be quite fearful. Escalators going in and out might freak them out. Heights falling maybe very hard for them to learn to ride a bicycle, skateboards they want to control up their body. So things are. Let them rather take the lift, rather, let them take the stairs to go down and give them the deep pressure. So let them hold tight onto the railing as they go down, or give them a heavy backpack If you know you're going into a busy environment. Let them have the proprioception. That's kind of giving them weight so that while they are moving there's something that's counteracting For the movement seekers. You want to feed that system. So martial arts, swimming is amazing and letting them do gymnastics, those kind of things, and in the same way, for us go for a run in the morning or do your yoga or whatever the case may be, changes in head position really target the system. So any inverted position handstands, headstands is all feeding that system. So, again, if you know that you're going to have a big day ahead of you and you know that that makes you feel calmer. That's how you start your day. If your child is a movement seeker, let them get dressed upside down, let their heads hang at the back of it while they put their pants on and when you know why they're doing what they're doing. And I do want to say sensory integration is not the be all and end all and answer to everything, but it is a massive part of us and when we know, it's much easier than to work with it.
Speaker 2:
Ok, so the fourth system is your visual system. Obviously, your sight, and it's your color, your perception, your depth or all of that the light, the dark, whatever. So if you are under responsive, it takes a lot. So you're going to want very bold colors. You're going to want very pats, pats, pats. You're going to want very pats patterned backgrounds. Maybe if you are reading a text text, you want to use highlighters so that it's exciting and you're feeling that system. For someone who is over responsive, you might want to wear sunglasses.
Speaker 2:
You might want to have like if you imagine you've got a page and then you just cut out a little square, so if you are reading on a worksheet you only can see the part that you're actually reading and the rest is covered, so that it's not overwhelming on the page. And that can really help kids and adults who are feeling like oh, so much. Too much yeah, and actually it's just them.
Speaker 2:
So they really are clear clear of the ways. Another big one is organization. You can tell a lot about where a person's at with their organization, so some people need to have everything lined up and in order and other people it's just chaos. They cannot find a system. For some people it's actually helpful having a whole mess because they feel. My late grad used to talk about having an organized mess.
Speaker 1:
She knew exactly where everything was but it was just an nightmare.
Speaker 2:
And then there are other people who it needs to be meticulous, and the minute a pen is in the wrong place it throws them out. So again I've got another story. So my littlest boy, he is so adorable and when he was a baby he must have been, I don't know, just over a year, I think, and he is very visually sensitive, very, and we'd gone away and his nappy had leaked and I had obviously taken all the linen off the bed and he came in the room and, if I tell you, freaked out that I had broken his bed, but like epic, tantrum, epic, and at that time I didn't really yet know that he was so vaguely sensitive and we were like I'm changing the linen, Like what have you talked about?
Speaker 2:
And how we kind of the clincher was. When we got home and he moved to a big boy bed, I bought this cool, graphic, awesome linen which I loved. He would not enter the room, he wouldn't go in his bedroom until the linen was plain. And even today, like his linen is both plain gray, plain white, like plain, plain plain and just calm, and I think what's so lovely is that we really can use things that are all around us very easily to help us if we know.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, things to know, to be aware, and not just to go back into you being so difficult and all that which is your first response, if you don't understand it right. That's so crucial.
Speaker 2:
Exactly OK. Then the order group system number five yes, and Tessie also. I just want to say like this is obviously really simplified. Yes, of course, there's always more to it.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. This is just a general understanding. Yeah, of course it goes deeper.
Speaker 2:
So the order tree system is about your tone and your volume, and so I have permission to share the story. My husband can actually hear the sounds coming through his cell phone charging A kid. You know, I call him Spider-Man. He has to switch the TV decoder off at night because he can hear that. I mean, I don't hear a thing. I don't know what he's talking about. Honestly, I can't hear that. He can hear if I would imagine a leaf falls at our front door when we're in our bedroom with the door closed, Like it's unbelievable. So for him, driving in a car with music and talking and kind of having to concentrate and cars coming.
Speaker 1:
Too much.
Speaker 2:
It's too much. So either the music must be on or we're talking.
Speaker 2:
And we've kind of figured out. He's figured out what works and what doesn't, but it really does impact function. Because if you're in a shopping center and you've got people coming past and trolleys and you literally hearing everything, the button to the lift going and people moving, the hangers on the rail, and it's just like and it builds up and eventually you overflow. So we've got to know, you know, is it going to be that you're going out with headphones, like you're wearing headphones now, mm-hmm, so just those themselves, if you had to go shopping with them, can tell out a lot of the extraneous noise and and. And the other thing is like if you are going to a Shopping mall to go because your proprioceptive system is going to kick into to down, down, play everything and regulate you much more.
Speaker 1:
And who would have thought some little gum Gum is amazing. Yeah, wow.
Speaker 2:
So if you are under a sponsor, you're gonna speak very loudly, kind of have no volume control, and you're gonna want more, more, more. Music gonna be loud and you know, if you having fun it's gonna be loud and the TVs on full blast and and maybe you bang things like when you put stuff down. It's it's. You know, someone who's noise sensitive will be a little bit quieter. And now, when you have in a family dynamic someone who is Noise sensitive with someone who is yeah.
Speaker 2:
I mean, it's good to crash because that they they not doing anything on purpose, but the one is needing the noise and the one is the freaking out and so things that. And you know, if you are over responsive, you're gonna notice sounds other people don't notice and you might cover your ears quite a lot, and it's just really about being prepared so Even even like clocks, so you don't want to have a ticking.
Speaker 2:
Yeah that I can't have a ticking clock, yeah so there's, there's amazing like listening programs that you can. You can do. That really can't help regulate your system and Having relaxing music playing in the background just to kind of regulate. And so the olfactory system is your smell system, and this is quite a powerful one because, as we know, smells relate to memories and emotions and so if you're under responsive, you're gonna sniff everything. Sniff the cokey before you use it, you're gonna smell the food. You're gonna want spicy food. You want to want, gonna want fragrant.
Speaker 2:
Aromatics and If you're over responsive, you want very little. Maybe you want to a perfume, maybe you just use a neutral kind of smell and Even washing powder can can really irritate someone just from a smell. So the children might refuse certain foods because of smell. And and you know, if you've got boiled eggs and you open the box, that initial smell, yes, it's not great. But for some of us you just yell and it's over in a second. For others, I mean that can you just a gag response like it's terrible. So things are. And you know, for seekers it would be. For for seekers being the people that are under responsive and Maybe carrying a little hanky with an essential oil that they can sniff every now and again, other fragrance they love, or having a strong perfume and or let's go to the other side, which is, which is your over responsive?
Speaker 2:
you might want to have, and you know, only wash in a fragrance free kind of thing, have no Like smelly shampoo and maybe you stick to the same one so that you're used to it. So you want to kind of use maybe to fuses so that the whole room is a neutral fragrance that you like. Number seven is taste. So obviously, now, if you are eating something and you are someone who really likes spicy food, really likes lots of very rich flavors, you might be someone who is under responsive and you need one more and more to reach that. But on the other side it might take the smallest thing and you don't want to, you don't want to carry on, or it might be off-putting or send you into a stress response. So, keeping that in mind, you know, for those kitties who want plain, plain spaghetti with plain boiled fish, that kind of thing and you really do you need to play into that.
Speaker 2:
You, you don't want to give your child, who is Sensitive to flavors, a curry. It's, it's not gonna work, they're not gonna eat, they're not gonna be calm at dinner time. So it's, it's about really thinking about which, which input are you are you going to be the most successful with? And the word that's popping in my head Of kind of the previous generation is pandering. No, it's not pandering, it's, it's about it's. It's about Knowing the system. And then you try and push, you try and so you're saying introduce it at some point.
Speaker 1:
You're not saying completely, you know just absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2:
But you're not gonna introduce it at a time when they're exams. Yeah you're not gonna introduce that at a time when you know you're gonna be moving house and your packing boxes, Because everything's heightened and the response is is going to be much, yeah, yeah okay, okay, so temperature temperature.
Speaker 2:
Temperature is also accessed, obviously, through senses in our skin and if you are and responsive, it might be that you don't really register when you know I might be freezing cold outside and the person is still wearing shorts and a t-shirt. My little boy, we call it the polar bear. He sleeps in summer pajamas right through winter. I've got like as a vest Pajar winter pajamas, a gown of lamb like you.
Speaker 2:
So it's, it's two complete extremes, and I do find myself nagging him Please go put something more on people. He doesn't need to. And I have to remember back off, sometimes, if we are going out and it's freezing cold and he's saying, no, he's not gonna wear a jacket, and I will insist because you're gonna get sick. So there is a little bit of having to happen as well, but it is understanding that you. I don't know if you've ever heard this, but when we had babies we were told always have one extra layer.
Speaker 1:
Yes, I have actually one more than us right, one more than what we're wearing.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, my little boy is one or two, and that is his norm, exactly. Yeah exactly and so things are. You know you can, you can carry, they can carry a fan so that they can always be cool. It's the people who they'll always be folding paper into a fan so that they can always fan themselves.
Speaker 2:
You can help by putting layers on. So have a t-shirt underneath and then just layer on so that they feel in control, that they can take it off. But someone who I guess it kind of works in reverse as well, you know you want to be able to layer so that the person who is over responsive can quickly Put more on, if they're very cold or whatever.
Speaker 2:
It's kind of just the, the extremes, and then it also goes down to temperature, food temperature, of drink, the bath. You know, if I think that the bath is a really nice temperature, I'm probably gonna burn him, because for him a lukewarm bath is warm and so it's really taking that, that into account, and then our pain receptors Also. You know, is that number, 10? This one is number nine. We nearly there.
Speaker 1:
I'm just gonna come to some of your time. Yeah, go on.
Speaker 2:
Pain receptors, so that's also in our skin and it's there to keep us safe.
Speaker 2:
Now if you are under responsive to pain, it can actually be quite dangerous because you're not registering what's going on. And I used to work at a pre primary school and there was the most fabulous jungle gym and this little boy. He constantly had bruises and Like he would just fall but get up and carry on. And the one day he fell from the top of the jungle gym all the way down and he did not even cry because he doesn't register pain easily and obviously it's important.
Speaker 2:
I mean, if you burn yourself, you need to get that Reflex yeah, but if it's, if it's a lower registration, you're gonna want to help Increase that system and know it's not by hitting and hurting, but it's about going through the other systems so that you can get a more reactive response For that. And then obviously you get the other side of the coin where you know you Can't use belt, yeah.
Speaker 2:
I always say it's like a soccer player, you know like the ball touches this and it's like the drama exactly. And so we can use sensory systems and Intensity diets to calm down our sensory systems. And you've got to actually acknowledge that they are experiencing the pain at such a level, because it really is real for them and even though it seems like it's very dramatic, you know, we we need them to understand, we understand and acknowledge very sore, but actually your finger did not fall off. So it's that kind of that kind of balance. Yeah, okay. And then the last system is Interaction, and this is kind of your internal system. So am I full and do I need the toilet? And all of those kind of things which we take so for granted because it's automatic, yeah, but for someone who, who is under responsive, they might not get to the toilet on time or they might, you know, just keep eating and eating and eating and eating, or not realize that they actually really hungry. Those, those are.
Speaker 2:
It's a very important system and if you are over responsive you might keep running to the toilet and every five minutes the child's raising and I need the toilet. I need the toilet and you think, oh, they're trying to get out of the lesson. But actually they are getting signals that they need to go to the toilet, but it's too quick, they don't actually need to go to the toilet. So things you can do is having timetables. You know you can go to the toilet here for the lesson and then maybe give them a little card.
Speaker 2:
So that they can go once in the middle of the lesson and then they go at the end again and then they can get to the next class. But we, we, we have to be sure that that is actually what's going on and that it's not that they're struggling academically and trying to get out of it. And that's why I say it's not the be all and end all. There's so much that kind of works all together, but if we do understand the sensory systems and I think it really helps us with an in and to understand why the behaviors are coming through. There's just two more things that I really want to say.
Speaker 2:
The one, the one thing, is the importance of patience. You know, we we need to be super patient with the children, but we can only do that when our cup is full. And I'll never forget when we kind of were in the real mess of our journey, it used to irritate me that every professional would say to me I need to fall my own cup, because, first of all, I had no idea I'd like almost lost myself that I didn't even know what would fill my cup. It felt like if I did anything for myself, I was being a princess. I felt like pressure because it probably would cost a lot of money to have to go and do like hair nails, massage and what I've realized it doesn't need to cut money.
Speaker 2:
It can be having a cup of tea that is still warm. It can be going to sit on the toilet with a lid closed, breathing for five minutes. Whatever it is for me that I can do right here, right now, just with me. Those are the things that are going to regulate me, and I think it's such a shift in this pressure to go out and do stuff, because when we're struggling it's just too much.
Speaker 1:
It adds to the pressure. You can't think about beyond that. Like you said, you just do exactly your response. What do you mean? Go pamper myself when I'm feeling all this shit, whatever I'm going through right now. So, yeah, that's really important. And even just time alone with friendships or something away from that moment, 100%.
Speaker 2:
Okay, well, now you've given me two more. There was only one, but now there's two.
Speaker 1:
I could keep you either.
Speaker 2:
The one thing I want to say is just around leaving your child going off with your friends. I think having support, having people who you feel that you can leave your child safely, that will understand, I think, is really important. And sometimes that doesn't necessarily mean it needs to be family. It can be good friends who maybe are going through the same thing and who just have an understanding. And, yes, it's going to be more stressful for them in that moment while your child is in a struggling state.
Speaker 2:
But if you do go for a 10 minute walk and you leave your child with them, you will come back a lot stronger and more able to be patient. Which leads to my next point, which is for me, with any diagnosis, with any difficulty, I believe the most important part is connection and if we can figure out how to regulate ourselves, that we can then truly connect with our child. That will regulate them and you can then deal with anything. But I think what happens is when our child is freaking out, falling apart, we get stressed. I mean, if you're standing in a shopping centre and your child is having a complete health down and you've got 10 people watching you, yeah, yeah, yeah, like the judgement is a killer.
Speaker 2:
It's an absolute killer, but to get to a place where it's all about connection.
Speaker 1:
And you know pre-empting.
Speaker 2:
So we're going in the shopping trolley. Put the child in the trolley. Do you want the jacket over you and let them block out all the visuals? Do they want to push the trolley and get the proprioceptive input? Do they want to be in the trolley and get the movement? Do they want you to go to a quiet aisle? Take them out the trolley, sit on the floor, give them a big squeeze and love, even though you are under pressure. It's going to take you an extra two minutes, but that is going to buy you an extra hour and I think if we can focus more on the connection which I'm telling myself at the same time as I'm telling you, Then we are already leaps and bounds ahead.
Speaker 1:
That's so much information, so much useful information. I'm definitely going to have you back because there's a lot more to talk about here, but I also just want to say, if you have a quote or a parting thought for whoever's listening, you've given so much already and I'm also going to ask you to send me some resources. So if there's any assessments we can do or questionnaires just to see if we are in any of these sensory groups, let's say you know we test ourselves or our children. Yeah, Absolutely.
Speaker 2:
And I want to say is the, the? I would recommend that you do it through an occupational therapist and reason being. We all have things within each system that are a little bit more or a little bit less. The issue is when it affects function, that's it. You only deal with it if it affects function. So we can try ourselves crazy Like oh yes, I'm over responsive.
Speaker 1:
Yes.
Speaker 2:
But if you're actually able to deal with it, then it's not a problem. It's something you know about yourself and that's great.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
So that's the first thing. The second thing I think there's so many. I think that one thing I want to say is so Sandy Gluckman is an unbelievable woman. To listen to Dr Sandy Gluckman and she talks about heart parenting. I mean, she talks about a lot of amazingness, but if, if you, one thing that has helped me is having like a physical gesture or reminder to ground me. So she talks about heart parenting and you, you literally put your hand on your heart, you feel how fast your heart is racing and just by breathing or doing whatever you need to, you bring your heart rate down. And I think it's Dr Dan Siegel who says that your child's heart rate will mimic your heart rate. So if we can bring our heart rate down, theirs will come down and the whole stressful situation will kind of just calm and you can then deal with whatever you need to deal with. And and is this always possible?
Speaker 1:
No.
Speaker 2:
But it certainly is something to aspire to, because I think the more agitated we get, we're expecting the child to calm, but they're feeding off us.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, it's a lot of pressure on us, but, yeah, it's worth doing All right. Thank you, you are incredible. You've given so much.
Speaker 2:
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:
I really enjoyed listening to everything you've had to say and I'm going to is this kind of something I have to listen back to a lot, because you gave so much information and I really appreciate you being here with me today.