This will work. Okay. We finally meet here. And yeah. So welcome to our meeting. Thank you for your willingness to be interviewed here. Sure. And yeah, just to lay a little groundwork for our conversation today. First of all, it's the first time we've met. Yeah. And we met through a social media site that we're both part of, Quora, so part of the trust, love, and attachment space.
Is that how it's? Yes, in the therapeutic relationship, yeah. Therapeutic relationship yes. I read a lot of the posts there and enjoy reading the posts, yeah, me too. I don't know how we connected, and so I really don't know anything about you or about your situation, except for a little bit that you shared in the brief questionnaire.
So this is the way we start each session, actually. What I would invite you to do is to take a moment and reflect on your life, your situation, your relationships, your feelings, your thoughts, any area of your life that you, currently engage in. And then what I'd like you to do is to speak one word or short phrase that simply names your feeling state in these various areas.
And then go for as many words as you desire, and then stop when you choose. Okay, so different words, these words can be for different areas? Yeah, all one. Okay, it could be Yeah, it could be a mixture of words for one or just as you reflect this is like a little technique is to see. See what word just shows up in your awareness.
That's just simply names my interstate in relationship to these areas. And so you don't need to go into any detail or explanation, just simply name the feeling with a word or short phrase. Okay. I'll say proud, impressed hopeful, disengaged, disempointed, disappointed, scared
Hurt.
I feel resilient. And
Yeah, I think that's it. Okay, perfect. Okay, gotcha. Yeah, so just to share a little bit of just about that exercise. Basically, it's an invitation, just touch on the various emotions that you experience just with your awareness. And then and then also to recognize that our inner life is a mixture.
It's a mixture of feelings, a mixture of feelings and thoughts and they're fluid and some come and some go. And so You know, the idea there is to recognize that our inner life is a mixture, and sometimes contradictory, sometimes love and hate can exist in our experience at the same time. Yeah. So that was perfect, what you did.
Okay, so the alright, so the invitation here today sometimes just going acknowledging those things might, Open up perhaps something you might like to explore today or to expound on or to address or share about whatever or perhaps if you're coming into our meeting with an intention, we could go wherever you desire our conversation to go.
Gosh, I, of course, there's something like that feels really in front of me as far as. What's impacting me currently. It's also raw that I don't know that I'll be able to maintain myself very well. You mean here? That I'll be able to speak very well because I'll be crying. I anticipate it.
Oh, here. Okay. All right. I just want to let you know, feel free to cry or to feel whatever you feel. I am in I graduate with my master's in therapy. Basically, I'm going to be a therapist in a couple of months I graduate. And I'm also in my own therapy, and it is just really been the most amazing year.
And it's also just going really poorly right now.
A lot of those words I use were the first ones were how I feel about myself. I'm proud of myself. I feel good that type of thing. And then I'm realizing just how human therapists are and that they,
they're not perfect, right? And they really can disappoint you and I'm experiencing that.
Thank you for letting me know I'm not perfect.
I'm glad to hear that, actually. Anyway, I hear what you're saying there. Go ahead.
So we, we've, she's the first, I've been in therapy for, since I was 15, for 20 years. And she's the first therapist I've had that has done really relational work. With me as she's a psychologist, she's newer. She just started her own practice. And I had a history of these really insecure attachments with women who I looked up to like teachers, things like that when I was younger.
And I hadn't experienced that kind of insecure attachment for a really long time until this therapist. And I guess I'm, it's upsetting right now for me because. I think I started to really experience a secure attachment with this person at the same time realizing that she might not have been very safe to have that kind of attachment with.
And it it's very, a lot of ambivalent feelings there that kind of contradict each other.
within you or with her or between you?
There's this really unconditional love I have for her and appreciation I have for her in this year. And there's also just the truth that she lost her way a little bit.
Keeping the frame,
w with you keeping the frame with you, in other words, are you saying like appropriate boundaries?
Yeah. You're saying? Okay, gotcha. Yeah. Not necessarily appropriate ones, but just maintaining professionalism and Professionalism. Oh, okay. She's not she hasn't been very, I think her biggest misstep is she didn't realize her own countertransference.
I see. Okay.
And it has really impacted us. I think probably completely. I don't anticipate we'll be able to repair this. I see. But. Okay.
Yeah. So this has been a rupture, you'd call it in your relationship? Like a devastating rupture. Yeah. Rupture. Okay. I'm just I'm just curious in what you're saying, because I'm just curious about the boundary violation, let's say.
What. What did you experience her doing that was a violation of? professional boundaries.
I'll try to keep it somewhat concise and still a full enough picture. So when we're between session and kind of the closer I feel or safer I feel, the more obvious it is that I don't know her, right?
That she has been historically pretty rigid about her own self disclosure, right? Her own personal details of her life, which is fine.
But is that out of things that you've asked her about and that she hasn't revealed or just she hasn't
Kind of both. Both. Okay. Yeah. And I have Googled her and I've always, I've been honest with her about it.
I tell her about it. And she's always said she's always responded the way I thought she would, that it was normal. I know that a lot of patients do this. I know I'm not crazy, blah, blah, blah, or creepy or anything like that. But I guess I stumbled upon something that she didn't know was out there, right?
And I didn't even think it was a big deal at all, but it really struck a nerve with her. And this is where the countertransference came up, comes in.
I'm sorry, real quickly, so this is something that you brought to her attention that you found on Google? And that you were just pointing this out to her, and her response to that was what?
Her response to me outwardly was She told me that it made her feel weird. It made her feel uncomfortable, made her, it scared her about me. Like she felt that I was maybe creepy that type of thing. Okay. So she was upset the fact that you brought this to her or she was upset about the content?
That I found it. That you I even found it, yeah. Oh, I see. And the reason I didn't under, I didn't know what had happened to her previously. She had a therapist. who stalked her online and really weaponized a lot of things and really tortured her for a long time. And it just brought that up.
Of course, I didn't know that. I see. And so she has stepped back from our relationship because of this. It really gave, it really scared her. Okay. And I have sensed this, that she doesn't feel the same for the last six weeks.
I'm just curious what, do you know what scared her the most about all of this?
She didn't go into detail. Oh, but it was bad enough that he like showed her a gun that he had in his office. Oh, like he really, I don't know the details, but I think it was probably a lot worse than I understand. Okay. And so pretty gnarly, whatever it wasn't good. Okay. All right. So the counter transference really affected me, right?
Because I'm trying to do repair work, right? I upset her. I scared her. I don't really understand why it's not working. So upsetting to her, but it doesn't really matter. She's upset. I'm trying to do the repair work and it's not repairing anything. I can feel that she's still very distant. I can feel a lot of things and I'm noticing she's too sick this last week, so we've been two weeks apart.
And with this distance, I'm feeling the frustration I've had and the things that haven't been fair to me. The counter transference that has hurt me and stuff like that. The. The unprofessionalism I don't think any of her intentions were ever malicious, just are what they are or just in her professional life.
Just, I don't know. Her professional life. Just for me. Just toward you. Okay. Yeah. That she wasn't, she, in other words, you're aware or you feel that she wasn't intentionally trying to hurt you? I don't think she was intentionally trying to hurt me, but I think she was intentionally trying to keep me trying to communicate that she wasn't uncomfortable.
Oh. And that she didn't wanna go back to how we were essentially I see. Where we were still comfortable with each other. I see. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So she felt that you couldn't go back to that. State prior to yeah, she's been very clear on different occasions that she's not comfortable doing that. I see.
And I didn't really she didn't tell me that. I didn't know what was happening. I only know that she felt different. I see. Okay. She's pretty much telling me, I don't know why you feel that way. I don't feel different, but she's recently said, I think you're right. I have stepped back and I just didn't realize it.
I see. And I'm not, I don't really have the impression that she plans on returning, so to speak. I see. And I don't really feel like I can do therapy how it is after what we had. Gotcha. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I hear you there. Yeah.
A couple of curiosities. So how long were you in therapy with this person?
It's been about 15 months, 15 months or so. Okay. All right. Yeah. We see each other two to three times a week now twice a week, but for a while it was three times, so pretty intense. All right. Yeah. Yeah. So it seems or does it seem like that this is the ending of the relationship? Yeah.
I'm anticipating next week that I have a lot to say. And I don't want to say it, but she's been, she's hurt my feelings a lot and it's been unfair to me enough that I have to talk about it. I can't not. And I really think it'll light us on fire. I don't think we'll be able to come back from it, but I'm not going to close the door if she's willing to.
I'm willing to, but I just don't think, I think it might be a relief for her to walk out the door. All right. Okay. So you're wanting to at least have another session with her to express. Some of your feelings here. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, and see where that goes right, but Sounds like you don't have a lot of hope that things can be repaired.
Is that accurate? Yeah. Okay. All right I'm curious just about the feelings that you feel about all this like what but how would you? Articulate your feelings if you could maybe just you know, I feel so many again ambivalent feelings One hand On one hand, I feel so proud that I got to, I did the work to feel as secure as I do.
And that I feel as level headed as I do, given the circumstances and I think that's a real growth that I made and I am proud of that. Okay. And whether we continue on or we don't, of course it'll be so hurtful, but it doesn't really unravel. all of the work I did over the year.
Huh. Huh. And I'm really proud of that too. Gotcha. Yeah. Awesome. So I feel good and I feel sad. I feel sad that she might not, she had really good intentions, but maybe she didn't have the depth of integrity she needed to really follow through with those intentions and whatever like I've done, right?
And that is really sad. But it is. She hates when I say it, but it sometimes things just are what they are and it is what? It's . Yeah. That's always true, isn't it? Yeah. Things are always what they are what I heard you say was that you are aware of the growth that you're Experiencing out of all this.
Is that yeah that there's some something that you're Experiencing that's it's good. It's good. Yeah, and it really doesn't how this ends really doesn't cancel the appreciation I have for she may not be perfect, right? Of course, but she really did create a space for me where I did really feel safe.
And it allowed me to feel brave to really venture into things that were really important and hard to talk about. Great. And she, to do that, she had to take risks, relational risks. She had to be vulnerable herself. And
I can take the good with the bad, I'm trying to. Okay. I'm curious if you could put words to your tears right now. What are your tears speaking, if you could put words to your tears? What did they say? I think it's just grief. Grief. Yeah. I'm grieving. Yeah. I'm grieving the loss of the relationship.
Is that basic? Yeah. A relationship that was largely very healing for me. Yeah. Yeah. I guess I hear in your tears of appreciation. Yep. Yeah. It took, yeah, that's true. It took It was like I said, she had to take relational risks, she had to really walk close to boundaries because I needed that.
I just, I needed to feel special, I needed to feel loved. I needed to know that I really was.
Yeah, you got something real positive out of this relationship. Yeah.
I say, lovely to get in touch with. The appreciation because, and that that's often one of the things that shows up at the ending of sort of something or relationships is the appreciation of what I got out of that relationship and sometimes recognizing that appreciation is part of the healing process.
Yeah.
I think she's I know she's a good therapist and I really appreciate that.
What's happening now doesn't my how I felt about her wasn't fickle it wasn't I didn't have her on this idealized pedestal. I knew better than that. I did it first and I very quickly brought her down because of something like this happening. I wanted her to be able to get back up and dust herself off.
I didn't want her freaking out. And and I have room for repair of all of this. I can. I'm just not so sure that she can. I feel like this awkwardness that the tables have turned, and I've become the one waiting for her to catch up. Or the one For her to catch up in what regard?
Insight. Taking care of herself. Oh, okay, so you're waiting for her to get some insight into her part in all this? Okay. How would you know what, whether she's gained insight or not? I think she, I think usually she is, I don't know. I think this is such an awkward wrench that was thrown into us that neither of us expected. And I think it would've been harder, hard for her to expect it. But the fact that she didn't realize that she had stepped back is what she calls it. For over a month when I was telling her I feel like something's off. That really tells me that she really wasn't aware of her own countertransference, at least to some degree.
Or at least not willing to admit it to me. I don't know. And we both know that transference is so subconscious and really hard to see. I think it's really awkward to tell her I'm patient and I have room for you to be your human self and I can give you Time should come back and you know that type of thing because it just doesn't feel like what a patient says or does Yeah, so I don't know that feels awkward I feel fine, but I feel like she might feel wow, this tables have really turned and I can't work Okay, yeah, I guess that's all an unknown Yeah, it would be an assumption for sure.
Yeah, and Whether she would share anything with you about her insights or whatever is that something that you would desire from her, that she would do that, or expect her to do that? I,
I would like it if she, I would appreciate, and I think I would deserve for her to tell me at least, Where she's at with having stepped back, how she sees that. Is she planning on staying there? Is that more comfortable for her? Or is he trying to come back? Is she trying to work through her stuff?
That type of thing. I think that's fair to ask for. I'm not. I don't want to ask like too many details I know that's not appropriate, but I just want to know if she's with me but just in terms of And you're concerned about how she's processing all of this, right? I'm, no I might have misspoke. I'm not of course I am. I love her. I care about her. But no as far as what I want to talk to her about, what I want to know is if she stepped back like she said she is, I want to know, is she planning on meeting me again?
Is she planning on coming back? Is she planning on meeting? Okay. Is she planning on coming back? Are we going to be able to resume how we were? Or is she expecting me to adjust to this new dynamic? Okay so you're waiting for her to express that. But what's your stand about all this? I'm not going to where she is.
Okay, all right. I can't. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I hear that. And so whether she would want to do that or not, does that make a difference for you? Yeah. What difference would that make for you? If she expressed to you her whatever yeah, we could maybe give this another shot or not.
I don't feel like what's happened Is too much for me to work through with her, but the key word is like with her I need to know that she's,
she's trying to get back to that relational work. Cause it's not been relational. It's been very doctor, her last name, it's not been her Yeah, her human self and her doctor self. You know what I'm saying? Her professional self and her relational self. It's just been very clinical feeling and it's been really It's fine if that's all we've ever been but it isn't and I don't know and I don't feel comfortable going backwards It feels backwards to me and I don't I'd rather maintain what we had.
Okay. Okay. Okay. Another thing, I hear you're concerned for her feelings. Is that true? Am I hearing you? You're concerned about her feelings? I'm concerned about her, yeah, how, I'm concerned about if she's comfortable doing that. If she's comfortable. Okay. All right. How what do you see occurring from this point forward?
What would you like to occur from this point forward? I would love if she told, so the, when she told me she had stepped back, that was two sessions ago. It was only two sessions ago, and as I explained my, why I'm, I googled or whatever, she said to me the more you explain this more, I realize this is really my stuff.
Okay. And so I have some hope. Yeah. I have some hope that she's planning or trying to like work through that to like, come back to pace with me, but I don't know. Yeah. Okay. Ideally, of course, she'd be like I'm like, I'm already back or I'm trying to get back, okay. All right.
So are you saying that you want to have a discussion with her about these things in another, session whether it's the last one or not Yeah, i'm still working through how i'm going to approach next session some of me is afraid that So she called in this week both days Tuesday and Thursday when we see each other And she said she was sick and she's never canceled on me You know last minute before and some of me wonders if she really was sick Usually, I'm not paranoid like this, but some of me wonders if she's just trying to work out how to proceed with me and I, some of me even wonders if she's getting ready to terminate me.
It feels that way. So I really don't know how I'm going to approach Tuesday yet. This is, these are all things I've been thinking over the last day or two. Is it true that you want to terminate, you want to terminate the relationship? No, I don't want to terminate the relationship. I want to know. I want to make a decision though.
I don't want to play, I don't want to collude with her. I don't know. I don't know if it's necessarily with her, but I don't want to collude in this enactment where we ignore the elephant in the room, which is how much our dynamic has changed.
And I really just want to. Do the really uncomfortable thing that I don't want to do and just really acknowledge it and confront it and acknowledge how things have changed
yeah, i've acknowledged it to myself for long enough Yeah, and I thought I had caused this rupture right this googling rupture. I thought it was my fault So everything she's been doing over the last weeks that pushes me away I've been like pushing down because i'm thinking This is a rupture that I have to work to repair and when it's repaired I can acknowledge these things with her But I'm not gonna make it all about me right now when you know, I hurt her whatever And so I push those things down and with this two weeks in between sessions and the distance and time apart It's been a lot harder to push those things down.
It's you know, how time apart brings clarity sometimes or the opportunity to see things. Huh. I'm sorry, it's been hard to put what down, to push what down? To push negative feelings down. To push negative feelings down, that's been hard. Yeah.
And you're trying to push them down. Yeah, like the things that she has done that have felt hurtful or pushed me away. So what are the negative feelings for you? How would you name? The negative feelings that you experience in relationship to all this. I think the most, the biggest one is probably disappointment and unfairness.
And you won't allow yourself to feel that feeling.
I definitely feel it. I just haven't allowed myself to talk to her about it. Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right. Okay. So are you saying talking to her about it is going to help you through these feelings? I think, No I think talking, I think I plan on talking to her about it because
if I don't, I'll, and we just continue on how we're going. To help her understand. I don't know if she really realizes what she's doing, what she's been doing.
Okay, to help her. Because helping her helps me. Helping her. Yeah, helping her because helping her helps me. Okay, helping her is helping you in what way? Because if she understands. If she doesn't realize that she's subconsciously doing things that are pushing me away, that are making me uncomfortable, making me not feel very safe, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, then I'm gonna continue feeling that way, and she's gonna continue doing them.
Okay, so you want her to understand what she's doing and how that impacts you. Okay, and so if you felt that she understands what she's doing, that's going to help you to deal with your feelings? It's going to help our relationship, I think. It's going to help your relationship, okay. Yeah. Okay. It's just though I've never played such a game of balancing in my life, like knowing When is a good time? What is how should I word it? What will be the most effective way to communicate to get my needs met to help our relationship to propel us forward? Yeah, when I said I didn't, I couldn't go back. I meant I couldn't go backward and stay like she stepped back.
I'm not willing to meet her there. And be have that kind of dynamic going forward. I right. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I mean by I won't go back is mean I won't go backward. I won't have less of a relationship than we had. But at least not much less and not for very much longer, but I'm very hopeful. I would love to think that we could work through this. I'm willing. And I actually think I could, I don't know. I don't know about if she, if that's the same for her. Yeah, okay. Yeah, that's what I'm still working through. It's only been the last day or two that I've started to feel like this might not actually work out. I've started to get in touch with how bad things actually are and I we don't meet until Tuesday and I'm still working through on how to approach Tuesday.
Do I just go with the flow? Do I just, do I ask her how she's doing, feeling how she feels about us, how she thinks I think whatever? Okay. Or do I just tell her what's been going on with me, what I've been thinking? Okay.
No, we have a session on Tuesday and Thursday. Oh, Tuesday. Okay. Gotcha. Okay. So would you say it again, what you just, what you're articulating here in terms of, Do I this or do I that? Yeah. So there's, I think I have three options. I can, the first one feels like avoiding, I can just pretend and just go with whatever the session takes me, okay. Okay. My second option is I can try to involve her, ask her not make so many assumptions, ask her how she's doing. I can acknowledge you said a couple of sessions ago, you step back. I'm wondering where you're at now, how you feel about that, where we're, where you plan on going with that type of thing.
And then there's my third option of just really bulldozing the whole session and being like you this probably will be our last week. I don't know. Okay. I'm going to say a lot of things that are going to be hard for you to hear. And they're hard for me to say but they're true and they're authentic to me and I need to say them yeah, I think maybe a little bit of all three of those would be the wisest.
A little bit of all three, a mixture of them, okay. Yeah. Okay. But I'm scared of the idea that she plans on terminating me. I really, it's not that I, it's not the idea of being Of us not seeing each other anymore, but her doing it would just fuck, freaking suck. Would it be that you would feel rejected? Yeah, and if she does it, then I don't really get to say all the things that I, my piece, you know?
I'm not taking it harshly on myself,. That's good. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised given how the dynamic has changed and kind of the tables have turned a little bit and she all of that. Maybe it doesn't feel ethical or even wise to continue therapy to her.
I don't know. There's a lot of assumptions and a lot of things.
Who knows what she's going through out of having this thing being revealed. To her, and who knows? All we can do is speculate. But she's gonna go through what she's gonna go through in all of this.
Right.
And there's the, there's also the part of me that's like she, that feels really entitled to seeing this through because we both work really hard for the trust that we have for each other and the security we have in each other, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I just, I'm slow to, to blow that up to assume that she can't or won't or wouldn't be interested in it.
So you don't want to blow it up, right? Yeah. I do because I'm like, I've got that fear response, right? That's like just leave before she blows it up. That's don't put yourself in that vulnerable position to be really terminated and rejected. The one thing that she said over and over, she would never do.
But at the same time, I don't like playing games. And if I'm aware that I'm doing some kind of mind game, I stop and I don't want my ego to, you don't wanna avoid, you don't wanna avoid her, right? Yeah. Don't, you don't wanna avoid her. I don't. I don't want my ego to be what steers how this goes. To decide how it goes. Oh, to decide how it goes, I see gotcha, okay. I don't want it to get in the way.
Okay.
Okay, so I don't want my ego to decide how this goes. Yeah, I don't want to blow it up because I'm scared of rejection or I'm too uncomfortable not knowing. But I also, I don't want to torture myself either and drag this out if it's over.
How could you torture yourself if you tortured yourself?
How would you by hanging on to something that's gone, hanging on to something that's gone? Okay. Yeah, I hear that. All right. That's you could torture yourself that way. Yes. Yeah. That's why I call that a great awareness we hang on to the past.
It's over.
I have a lot. I have a lot to I've lost so much sleep. I think about and process our whole 15 months and these last six weeks and it's just so there's so much to be proud of and thankful for. And, of course, that kind of progress and that kind of space that allowed that kind of progress and fostered it is really special and would be a big loss. Yeah, I'll let you know how it goes. . You know what are we talking about here? There's what's going on and there's what's happened between you and your therapist and all of you know what you've described there, and then there's the feelings that you feel.
in reaction or response to it all. And the feelings that I'm hearing, feeling loss, hurt, rejected grief and Perhaps some others there too but that kind of touches on the feelings that you're feeling. And one of the ideas here is to really honor feelings, that's what you're dealing with, and that's a process.
You're processing these feelings. And so processing them is important. What's processing feelings? Nothing more than feeling them.
Yeah, a lot of fun. I know absolutely. I get that. Because every negative feeling I have my brain counters it with a positive one Or a positive memory or I know this hurt but Maybe maybe this or that. I really don't get to land anywhere.
I feel really on tumble, but these different emotions and feelings and things, and that's just not a comfortable place for anybody to be myself included. I know it's not comfortable. I know that's our human challenge. Is it's a learning to confront and face these uncomfortable feelings that show up in different circumstances.
So we try to, in some ways escape from the feeling and so we have numerous ways that we use to avoid our feelings. Okay. And so one of the ideas in therapy is just simply learning more and more to feel your feelings, have a place to feel your feelings.
And it's also if I have a bad feeling and a good feeling tries to come in and replace it, I have to remind myself that two things can be true. This could be bad and this could be good and they can coexist. They don't have to replace each other. And then I'm thinking, am I just trying to Am I so uncomfortable and I can't tolerate these negative feelings that these positive ones come in to relieve myself and is that reality or do I need to go back and really sit in that sad feeling and feel that or accept it as a truth that it feels like, or does it feel like a truth because I'm scared and I want to run because I'm scared or Is it?
Does it feel true because it is true. It's just holy crap. It's just a lot to think about. And it, it takes a lot of work and intolerance and presence of mind to not get carried away and to not panic and to try to stay present and Rational. And that's where I feel like the growth has come for me, because the fact that we're having this conversation and I'm not, I'm somewhat coherent six months ago never.
Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Good to acknowledge your growth. You can see your growth. Awesome. Really great. Okay. All right. Very good. We're coming towards the end of our meeting here today. All right. So this is how we end each session is take a moment to reflect on your here and now experience.
What am I feeling in this moment coming to a close? And then a few words. Yeah. How do I feel about this meeting today? And is there anything that I take away from this conversation? Maybe you might begin a couple of sentences with the words I'm realizing, or I realize, and then fill in the blank, I think the biggest kind of, I think the light bulb moment of the session for me was that I have the option to involve all three of those options where I can go with the flow a little bit.
involve her in her present now feelings and assert how I'm feeling and how this experience has been to me that I don't have to choose one that type of thing. And that, that feels obvious, but also a relief.
Excellent. I'm sorry. I don't remember what else you wanted me to say. Yeah. So what's your here and now feeling? If you could just put your here and now, this instant as we're coming to a close what's the here and now, this instant feeling?
I feel curious. I think curious. I still, I feel curious. I still I'm still like motivated to, Explore I don't wanna make assumptions or conclusions without more information, yes. Yes, I get that. That's great. Even if it feels safer to do that. A lot safer,
Okay. Very good. Yeah we've covered a lot of ground here. I hear all of what's occurred in your relationship and I also hear the feelings and emotions. And maybe a possible next step for you, perhaps in working through this whole thing, see where it goes and, yeah, that's all you can really do is take this one step at a time or take the next step and see where it goes and and honor, honor those choices that you just came up with.
Yeah. Thank you for the hour. All right. Okay. You're very welcome. And yeah, so yeah, thank you for your willingness to engage in this conversation. I appreciate our conversation. Thank you. Me too. And I wish you good things. Thank you. You too. Take care.
