Lead Culture with Jenni Catron
254 | Leadership Lessons with Lindsey Epperly on Scaling Business and Balancing Life
Join Jenni Catron and her special guest, Lindsey Epperly, CEO of Jetset World Travel, as they discuss business and life. Lindsey shares her story of growing her empire from a one-person operation into a team of over 90 dedicated members, recently recognized as number 1,144 on the Inc. 5000 List of fastest growing companies. Inspired by navigating her industry’s greatest crisis while expecting her first child, a season she affectionately refers to as the “MBA I never wanted,” Lindsey is dedicated to fighting imposter syndrome and teaching others how to turn obstacles into opportunities.
This episode is for everyone and every leader at any stage! Whether you are fearing the risk letting go of something that you know you need to release in order to go on to the next level of leadership, or just finding yourself if a season of hardship and challenge, listen in to what Lindsey Epperly has to say on this week's LeadCulture Podcast!
https://jetsetworldtravel.com/
https://www.lindseyepperly.com/
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Join Jenni Catron and her special guest, Lindsey Epperly, CEO of Jetset World Travel, as they discuss business and life. Lindsey shares her story of growing her empire from a one-person operation into a team of over 90 dedicated members, recently recognized as number 1,144 on the Inc. 5000 List of fastest growing companies. Inspired by navigating her industry’s greatest crisis while expecting her first child, a season she affectionately refers to as the “MBA I never wanted,” Lindsey is dedicated to fighting imposter syndrome and teaching others how to turn obstacles into opportunities.
This episode is for everyone and every leader at any stage! Whether you are fearing the risk letting go of something that you know you need to release in order to go on to the next level of leadership, or just finding yourself if a season of hardship and challenge, listen in to what Lindsey Epperly has to say on this week's LeadCulture Podcast!
https://jetsetworldtravel.com/
https://www.lindseyepperly.com/
We need your help to get the Lead Culture podcasts in front of more leaders! There are three simple things you can do that truly help us:
- Review us on Apple podcasts
- Subscribe - we’re available wherever you listen to podcasts.
- Share - let your friends know about the podcast by sharing your favorite episode on social media!
The Art of Leadership Network.
Speaker 2:Hey leaders, welcome to the Lead Culture Podcast, part of the Art of Leadership Network. I'm your host, Jenni Catron, CEO of the 4Sight Group. We're a company dedicated to helping leaders develop thriving teams. Each week, I'll be your guide as we explore practical strategies to equip you with the tools you need to lead with clarity, confidence and build unstoppable momentum in your organization. My mission is to be your trusted coach, empowering you to master the art of self-leadership so you'll learn to lead yourself well, so you can lead others better. Each week, we take a deep dive on a leadership or a culture topic. You'll hear stories from amazing guests and leaders like you who are committed to leading well. So let's dive in and keep learning on this leadership journey together.
Speaker 2:Friends, today I am joined by my longtime friend, Lindsey Epperly. Lindsey was on the podcast, gosh it's been probably a couple of years ago now and I was excited to have her back on because she has just traversed some really fascinating waters over the last few years. Lindsay is the CEO of Jets et World Travel, which she has scaled from a one-person operation into a team of over 90 dedicated members and was recently recognized on the Inc. 5000 list of the fastest growing companies. Inspired by navigating her industry's greatest crisis while expecting her first child, a season that she affectionately refers to as "the MBA I never wanted. Lindsay is dedicated to fighting imposter syndrome and teaching others how to turn obstacles into opportunities.
Speaker 2:Lindsey is just absolutely a joy. It's so fun to reconnect. You'll hear lots of us just catching up and just getting some of the just insights into the journey she's traveled over the last handful of years. We'll talk about how she refers to herself as the President of Control Freaks Anonymous and all the challenges we face sometimes as control freaks, as leaders, and she also shares about the monster that saved her. And so, my friends, you're going to enjoy this conversation today with my good friend, Lindsey Epperly. It's so fun to have you back. I was trying to remember when you were on the podcast last and I should like be able to actually look that up, but it's been a couple of years, so I'm so glad to have you back and so excited to catch up.
Speaker 1:I am so thrilled to catch up, Jenni. We go so far back with our coaching days and then got to touch base with the podcast several years ago. I feel like we just catch up on podcasts now, but I'm really looking forward to it.
Speaker 2:I was going to say that's our excuse to actually catch up with each other is hey, let's record a podcast, it'll be great, and it's great because then everyone gets to benefit from hearing what life updates we have. That's right. That's right. Well, for those that maybe haven't caught the podcast, that happened a couple of years ago. Why don't you tell everybody a little bit about you, what you do, Give us a little picture of your world?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I am the CEO of Jets et World Travel. It is a travel agency that I founded 10 years ago. Actually, it was originally called Epperly Travel.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I'm founder and CEO of this company that has evolved in so many new and beautiful ways over the past four years that have actually been our industry's most challenging. Right, like having a travel agency in a pandemic is not ideal for success Right, but we managed to turn it into ours. So I reference we and ours a lot, because my husband is my business partner, he is our COO, so that's an interesting dynamic that people are always very like I like to be voyeuristic into, you know like how do you do that?
Speaker 1:and stay married. How does that happen? And I'm a mom of two. I've got two little girls, one and four years old, and you know, the whole idea of balance is definitely a myth, but I think that seasons are really important to lean into as we look at entrepreneurship and creativity and motherhood and all of those things and how they go hand in hand.
Speaker 2:It's so fun to hear you share your story and where you are, because I think when you and I connected, it was before you and Jeremy were even married. Yeah, yes it would have been yeah right.
Speaker 2:So I remember you guys getting married. Then there was a discussion of him becoming a part of the business and now you guys are partners and now you've had a couple of girls. It's so fun to just have been somebody kind of on the sidelines a part of the journey, here and there, and just see all the amazing things that have happened in the last 10 years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, you were more than just on the sidelines, because I remember when he and I were making this decision to work together, which was we were still engaged at the time, right, so we had a marriage impending Wedding going on.
Speaker 1:Yes, the whole thing Lost a key employee and he was like, what if I applied for the job? And I was like, absolutely not, that could destroy our relationship. This business currently owns me. I don't want it to own you too. And I remember, Jenni, that I think I was actually actively coaching with you at the time, or I called you for advice. But I think I was actively coaching and I don't remember what your advice was at the time, other than probably, like I don't know about that, but you were a helpful sounding board for me as I made this major life transition.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a big. It's funny because it's fuzzy now, like going back into the details, right, but I just remember it was a big deal and but I think what was so good about it and maybe this is, we'll just go there right now in the podcast Like I think what was so good about it is that, you know, I think a lot of times people bring family members whether it's spouse or friend or sister or whatever, like bring people in that they know so well and are so close to, without really thinking through is it's the right fit? How will we do when we work together? Like and I remember that part that you and Jeremy actually had some really thoughtful conversations around that position and what you specifically needed and whether that fit his gifts because he was leaving his career. So you want to speak to that a little bit, because I think you guys were actually really intentional to go "well, this doesn't just sound good. Let's make sure this is good.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you for noticing that and appreciating that. And I will tell you that, even as intentional as we were, it didn't lessen the number of bumps along the way to get it to a good working relationship. Right, but the things we were most intentional about, and what eventually led me to change my mind from absolutely not to you know what let's give it a try was we had this vision for our family of freedom and flexibility, and he at the time was working as a financial analyst for Merrill Lynch, and while he had a great job and he had a decent amount of flexibility, ultimately he's still working for a corporation and I am running a business myself. I'm absolutely drowning at the time. And so it was.
Speaker 1:It was an in tandem, a thoughtful conversation about what we wanted and imagined for our family as we were building it out and what skill sets we could bring to say, you know, if he was the same thing as me, then it would be redundant and I would have remained drowning in the business now with just someone else who could do the same thing. Right, but you brought such a unique set of skills. I am everything to right brain, as Jeremy is to left brain, so together we make one whole brain, and it was very helpful in the business because he could see just from the outside, looking in. He's very book smart too. He's got like his MBA. I don't have any of those things, I am like pure hustle and street smart.
Speaker 1:And so he was able to look at the business and say, actually, I see some areas where we could like sure up some systems and processes and I was like, ah, that sounds so painful and boring. That's awesome, yeah, so there were. There was just like a lot of low hanging fruit where he could come in and bring amazing insight into the things that I never would have paid attention to, because I was just constantly chasing, like the next dangling carrot and always thinking about what vision am I casting and what goal are we going after? You know, just the things that I excel at. So, given all of that and now, of course, hindsight is 2020, as intentional as we are, it still was a learning process that the home version of one another is very different than the work version. And even though home Lindsay and Jeremy are madly in love and have deep respect for each other, work Lindsay and Jeremy were a bit office nemeses for a little while to be able to actually work together.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, and so it was a learning experience to say wow, I respect you from a professional level because of the skills that you're bringing to the table, not simply because you're agreeing with me, which is kind of what I wanted to begin with was just someone that said obviously you've done it this way. You should keep doing it. You're doing great, but it was learning how to helpfully disagree and respect each other.
Speaker 2:That's so good. I love how you noticed work Lindsay and Jeremy, and home Lindsay and Jeremy. So how do you guys create the boundaries, because you are business partners how do you create the boundaries between home and work and when you're on and when you're off? What does that look like?
Speaker 1:Yeah, we are. I would say we're fairly good about not, you know, talking about work at the dinner table, especially with two young children. We really want to be present, so we're in presence is one of our family values is to be present it's to be playful and it's to know that we always have choice.
Speaker 1:So we're constantly going back to our family values and making sure that work is not infiltrating in those things, but just little things that we've come to do that are super helpful. I'll tell you a couple. These are such a glimpse into our funny little relationship, but one is that we no longer interrupt each other's days because it's so easy we both work from home that we could just be walking through the room that someone's working in and just launch into like hey, I need you to do this and it just completely disrupts the flow.
Speaker 1:And so we developed what we call dings. You know, like when you go to wait at a deli or something and you have to ring the little ding bell and so he'll walk through the kitchen if I'm working out of the kitchen and be like I have a ding for you whenever you have a moment.
Speaker 2:I have two dings, so we developed our ding system.
Speaker 1:And then also, what is very helpful is we have a standing weekly coffee date where we parking lot the larger ideas that would take longer, brilliant, yeah Right. So that way we're. If that's a ding, the ding's like five minute or less type of activity and the coffee date is for when we have a 30 minute. We've got to talk this through, really get our thinking hat on and solve this problem together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that and I think even if maybe some of our listeners don't actually work in the same job with their spouse, if they're working from home and that's the reality for a lot of people now is like it's easy to just do those interruptions that are kind of normal in a family cadence. But I love what you guys have kind of established and my husband and I kind of have a similar dynamic of like our offices are sacred space. It's like we really try to think about each other as if we were coworkers. You know, in an office, another office environment, where you wouldn't feel as quick to just go interrupt your coworker without like just a check-in or like hey, I have a quick question for you when would be a good time? Because sometimes with our spouses we're a little more just oh, we just expect them to just be able to jump in, but in a work context, like we actually need that respectful rhythm of the work that we're doing, and so I love some of those. Those are great suggestions.
Speaker 1:That's a really interesting way of looking at that too. I've only ever thought of it as couples that work together, which is a very small portion of the population, but so many, to your point, are in the same space these days. Right, even if you travel and work together but you're not actually actively working in the same job. Just being able to go back to that idea of professional respect, it's something that I don't think we naturally assume simply because we're married, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah, I think we just treat it differently and in some ways it's like it's kind of helpful to go okay, yeah, there's like I like, like you said earlier, work Lindsey and Jeremy and home Lindsay and Jeremy, and just the distinction of that. So that was fun, that was totally rabbit trail, but I appreciated your insights on it. This is super, super. I mean, again, I think it just makes us think about some of our work behaviors a little differently. Yeah, yeah absolutely Okay.
Speaker 2:So let me ask you this question Did you always know you were a leader, or are you a bit of a reluctant leader, like, how do you think about leadership and what that's looked like for you? That's a good question.
Speaker 1:So I'll tell you that I always knew I was an entrepreneur and so in that way maybe I did always feel the leadership tendrils kind of, you know, reaching into me. But it took me a while to separate those two things and to really step into what it meant to be a good leader. So I would say I've not been reluctant on any of it. I'm a pretty independent, headstrong individual. I was raised as an. I am an only child, but I was raised by parents who just kind of instilled in me like you can do whatever you set your mind to, and my dad was an entrepreneur and so I just always knew I was going to be an entrepreneur. So in that way there's like a level of independence. But that doesn't mean you're a good leader, right, or that you're an intentional leader or that you even want to lead people. Right.
Speaker 1:And I think the reluctant part for me was when it started, when I started really scaling this business and Jets et has grown in the past four years we've more than quadrupled. We went into the pandemic a team of 10. Now we've got over 90 team members. We scaled by acquisition, we scaled by organic growth. Like this company, we landed on the Inc 5000 list last year.
Speaker 1:This company has just grown beyond my wildest dreams, which means my leadership abilities have had to be very intentional. Right Like, the company I'm running today is not the same thing I was leading four years ago. That felt much more of a solopreneur venture that just had happened to build out into a team. Now it's a living, breathing organization and that means a leader that is capable. So it really took the pandemic kind of leveling the business and me looking around at my industry and seeing what others were doing and going, oh I have an opportunity here. I have an opportunity to step up as a leader, because I know I've got this ingrained in me. I do think it is a God-given gift and so what would that look like? And so many of our decisions in growing the company and Jeremy's the same way have been because we're stepping into that leadership role that we feel like, hey, we're uniquely equipped to do this and so that's really benefited us.
Speaker 2:That's fascinating. I love how you identified going from a team of 10 to a team of 90. That's a totally different ballgame. So tell us a little bit about some of the shifts you had to make. What were the things you had to do differently and like very intentionally go, I can't operate the same way! Like a new version of me has to emerge. I'd love to hear some insights around that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so a few different things. Let me just start with the fact that almost every time that I I've recognized that a new leader, a new version of me has to emerge, it is almost always a direct result of burnout, and so for that reason, I've started very much looking at burnout not simply as a symptom of overwork but as a sign of evolution. And there are the times that I fight it right, where I think like I'm just tired, maybe I need to get a little bit more off my plate, blah, blah, blah. But ultimately it comes down to I probably need to get this entire task that is burning me out off of my plate and to someone else who it gives life to, so that I can then step into the next version of what this company needs of me. And so that has been a huge leadership opportunity and, in kind of like where those milestones were, that's a completely different framing of burnout than I've ever heard before, but it makes so much sense.
Speaker 2:So like, give me, can you give us an example of what was something that was burning you out? And you're like, okay, this I love that, it's a sign of evolution.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I also know like burnout is an actual medical condition Like this is identified by the world health organization. I actually, for my podcast, just interviewed Kate Donovan, who runs a podcast called Fried, and it's all about burning out.
Speaker 2:Yes, I've heard, I've listened to a few of those episodes.
Speaker 1:I might have to connect you two. I think you would get along, but you know it's an actual condition and so if someone has this I don't want to belittle it and say like it's just your mindset. You know there's so much you have to do to get through it.
Speaker 1:And I did those things as well, but I also recognized, so you know, to your question of, like, what actually was going on, a couple of those milestones have been one I went from solopreneur to, you know now, managing a team, and I was the lead practitioner and the lead salesperson for many, many years.
Speaker 1:So I own a travel agency. I was the lead travel advisor and I was absolutely burning out of client work. I just was not. You know, it was like my. What I recognize in burnout is the lack of resilience, and it was like my. My skin was just getting thinner with each client interaction, even the good interactions.
Speaker 2:And, and I just felt like a human punching bag.
Speaker 1:And so when you start feeling that that, to me, was a sign of something's got to change here. And so that was then when I stepped out of out of the client work and into a leadership role. So this was, you know, probably six, seven years ago. And then, even in that leadership role, I was oftentimes working directly with our advisors, who are also clients, because we have a B2B element and I started feeling the same way, you know, after a couple of years of mentorship, and realizing, gosh, I think it's time that I scale to another level again. And then we appointed a managing director who now is the mentor, and now I'm able to really sit in more of a vision casting role, which has allowed us to grow in a different way. Brilliant. And so those were the moments that were really important to me to realize time to up-level my leadership abilities.
Speaker 1:And I think it's so important to recognize too and Shannon Miles, who introduced us, taught me this that if your company is doing what it should, then it's growing, and if it's growing, then every day you're running an organization that's a little bit bigger than the day before, that you have never done before, and so you have to start recognizing your cap as a leader, and what do we do to pour into ourselves to be able to actually humbly grow this thing and not just think, oh, I've got everything I need to be able to run this organization of 90 people? Lindsay from four years ago could not have done that, and so we had to be very intentional about what kind of mentorship we get and who we surround ourselves with, and and and how Jeremy and I both are growing as leaders through that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's so smart. So smart. Was it challenging to let go of some of those things? Cause that's what you knew, right, like you knew how to be the one. You know doing those. You know doing those things, whether it's mentoring the other. Um, uh, I'm sorry, what did you call?
Speaker 1:it yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:The team members, the team members, the agents that's the word that I was trying to come look for, um, but yeah, that's the stuff you knew how to do and then all of a sudden you're releasing that, even though it's burning you out. So talk about, like, was it coaches and mentors that kind of helped walk you through that? Was it you and Jeremy, like, what did that look like?
Speaker 1:It was a combination of both of those things plus the leveling of the business. So I was absolutely president of Control Freaks Anonymous here Like I was the bottleneck that was always keeping my business from growing and I actually I remember Shannon specifically telling me the tighter you cling, the slower you'll grow. You know Shannon's just full of these like amazing insights and I remember hearing that. But it was before the pandemic had leveled the business and I thought, oh, that's good advice, like I'll start loosening up a little bit and like I'll learn to delegate.
Speaker 1:I was doing it just like inch by inch and I think God very much with the pandemic was like no, we're actually going to completely let go of your death grip on this thing. You are going to be forced to as you encounter business failure and motherhood and your own health issues and journey. You're going to actually be forced to learn to rely on a very well-equipped business partner that you've been given, as well as a very well equipped team who's chomping at the bit to get to lead. So over the past few years that has been my biggest learning lesson is kind of letting go of that control. But look at the evidence right the business has catapulted because of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's absolutely right. Like I mean, you see the results of it, but you couldn't have predicted that right, like as much as you would have hoped for it. Like that, that place of like risking letting go of something that you know you need to release in order to go on to the next level of leadership is terrifying.
Speaker 1:It is, and you know what's so crazy and I and I wonder if some of your listeners have found themselves in this place the decision to do that. I was almost willing to burn the whole thing down before I was willing to let someone else try their hand at it, and I remember the specific moment and why I say this.
Speaker 2:I was going to say were you thinking about it that way, like, was it a conscious thought? Yeah, absolutely!
Speaker 1:That's how much I needed to control it, that I also needed to control its demise. So, in the middle of the pandemic, when Jeremy and I so we're all eggs in one basket, right, we're like five months pregnant pandemic hits. We have a home under contract that we have to choose to walk away from in order to keep the business, and so, like every day, we're studying this spreadsheet that is titled Project Slim Fast. So how can we get, you know, reduce it so we can keep our run rate and actually keep this business?
Speaker 1:And I remember there being a conversation early on where I was like maybe this is just a sign because I'm burning out so badly and I've got this baby on the way and this is so much stress on my body, Maybe this is just a sign that, you know, I feel like I've I told him this word for word I feel like I've been walking around with a match that is lit and I'm just you know, listeners I'm like rolling this match between my fingers. Right now I'm ready to flick it on the business and just watch it go up in flames, Like that was how burned out I was and how much I was. Like I'm ready to just and Jeremy goes. Would you, um, would you consider letting me have a go at it before you do that?
Speaker 2:Before you just let it go up in flames. Can you give
Speaker 1:me a chance? And this was like when he was actively like hey, can I be your business partner? He was working within the business and even at that point I had not allowed him to become a business partner because I was such a control freak.
Speaker 2:And so he's like could you.
Speaker 1:Just I'd love to go! And thank God he convinced me to do that because he you know again going back to that different skillset, he is equipped in a way that I am not to let certain things roll off of him and so the things that were really burning me out he was like I have a superpower of patience, of being able to move through this and lead through this.
Speaker 1:And so it was just such a beautiful example of partnership, both in marriage and in business, that you know. I've heard it said that marriage is not 50-50, it's 90-10, because when you are 90, the other's 10. And when he's 10, you know, vice versa, when you're 10, he's 90. And I just saw that so beautifully manifest in the way that we partnered together to not just keep this business, but absolutely grow it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that is amazing. That's amazing and I love your honesty because I think there's so many listeners who can relate to that right, like we probably haven't said that out loud but we like we would be perfectly happy with just like walking away and letting it burn. You know, because when you're to that point, when you're just that tired and you're that burned out, like sometimes you see no other way and you have trouble seeing the potential in somebody else being able to take it someplace. You couldn't Right, and I think I so appreciate your vulnerability and just honesty about that nature of wanting to control something, and especially when we're either in the senior leadership seat, the founder seat, you, it's your baby, it's all that you know, and so it is hard to envision that somebody could do some element of it better than you can. And it's it's just such an important learning, so so powerful.
Speaker 1:One of the things that was most helpful to that note just like a tangible tip for your listeners to take away if they're kind of in this position.
Speaker 1:One of the things that I had to learn within that delegation you know exercise what I learned was to delegate the what and not the how, and what I mean by that maybe this is common practice, I don't know. It took me 10 years of business to learn it was that I would tell the team member what I wanted to see and then I would tell them how exactly I wanted them to do it, because it was the way that I wanted it done and that would keep them from actually being able to use their own brains and autonomous way of thinking and unique skill sets to get to the what. And so Jeremy actually taught me this right Like delegate the what and then look away Like you can create some checks and balances, a system of accountability, but stop trying to micromanage the how.
Speaker 1:And in learning, that process is really what helps me kind of realize like, yeah, no one's ever going to do it exactly the same way as me. That is the point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's such a helpful framing too, because I think I actually had something similar happen. This was back when I was leading a team, when I was working in Nashville and I had four direct reports that worked for me. I was executive director of the organization and we were stuck. It was just one of those seasons where it was like nothing's working and we kind of just had a come to Jesus moment as a team and I said, guys, okay, starting with me, what do I need to hear? What do I need to do differently? How do I need to lead differently? And they said, Jenni, tell us the what and why and let us figure out the how. They were like, like, just let us figure out the how, we will figure it out.
Speaker 2:And they were like really amazing, competent individuals Like I. Like still, most of them are dear friends to this day. But I didn't even realize I was, I was over functioning, I, I was doing too much, I was trying to take care of it all and I think sometimes it's well-intentioned right. I think sometimes we think we're helping our team by, you know, filling in all the gaps and, like you know, not just releasing it to them, when in fact it's actually making them crazy. They're like well, you just let us do it.
Speaker 1:Yes, right, yes, and you just use that word over-functioning, which I think is such a common, you know, groove that we fall into as leaders, and almost all of us are probably able to relate to being a high achiever. Right, like, if you're an entrepreneur or a founder or a senior executive like this, you do tend to go toward over-functioning, especially in times of high stress. That's right, and that's just something that is so helpful to learn about yourself and to learn the ways to not make it your team's burden now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, that's really well said, okay, speaking of high achievers, you talk a little bit about how success and anxiety are linked for high achievers. Can you talk about that a little bit? About that dynamic of success and anxiety and how we, how we're juggling all of this?
Speaker 1:You know, I I became really hyper fixated on this recently because, um, because I've reached a point in my life, personally and professionally, where I and I I have been diagnosed with anxiety, right, like this is not just anxious, this is I have had like seasons of a major anxiety disorder, and they were at their height when I was at my kind of spread most thin within the business. And so, and I think, even at that time, I actually like willingly embraced the anxiety because I thought it's what was making me successful. Like, I actually thought this is the reason this is kind of my secret weapon, right, because, like, I constantly want more, more, more, and like not enough is never enough and if I don't achieve, then my heart will actually stop, because that's like what's pushing it going forward, and I always thought that was the reason I was successful. Like, I thought that was my upward trajectory, and I do think, for someone like myself, I had to learn the hard way that I had so closely linked my success with my self-worth. And so, when the business was leveled in 2020, I had a big identity crisis around that of like, oh, it's failing, so I'm a failure, right, like this is obviously, it just makes sense and and really having to like work through that which allowed me to.
Speaker 1:Then, as the business kind of came back around on this other side, we had the acquisition opportunity. We then were able to grow it organically. I was able to make choices this time around and say, okay, I'm not going to go back to that place of anxiety. I didn't have it anymore because I'd gotten far enough out of the business during maternity leave to say, well, what choices would I need to make to see if I could achieve and I could have ambition without that anxiousness pushing me forward? And I wondered well, that means I won't get as far.
Speaker 1:But at that point, it didn't matter anymore, because I'm now a mom. I have different priorities. Let's just see. And so, on this other side, I really do believe that it is possible for us to still maintain an ambitious spirit, and I think that's a God-given gift. I think that, like we, we are high achievers for a reason. It's not something we should be ashamed of and um, but we don't need to wear our anxiety and our busyness like a badge of honor, and so that, for me, has been a huge learning lesson over the past few years. Um, and I'm just always obsessed with asking other you know people who have succeeded like do you think that it was because of your
Speaker 2:anxiety? Like do you think that was necessary to get you there?
Speaker 1:It's just fascinating to hear people's take on that. Yeah, yeah, I do it on the podcast all the time, like every person I have on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I love it. Just a little voyeuristic with it. Well it is. It is interesting because I do it, like, as you were sharing that, I'm thinking, yeah, it is kind of a badge of honor, right, like it is kind of well, this just goes with the territory. Like, if I really want to accomplish great things, then this is just part of it, this is just what comes with it. Like, sometimes I'm giving myself that pep talk right Of like, yeah, you've just got to like suck it up, you can do it. You've done it before, keep going. So that's yeah, that's really interesting.
Speaker 1:But I don't think, like I don't think we're meant to have to feel that all the time. You know, like I, yes, there are pros and cons with leadership. There are highs and lows, and you're going to feel a lot of those things much deeper because you have more of the risk riding on your shoulders, right. But I don't know that it's necessary to just wear that in a way that takes away from our being able to be present and to live happily in our day to day, right, like this is the same idea of I run a travel agency and we talk about the people that decide to wait until retirement to travel. Right, it's like you're working so hard to get to that point at the end instead of enjoying it in your daily life. And I feel that same way about building a business, like it's not just about the end goal. I want to be able to enjoy my life getting there, especially as the parent of young children.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah, I think, Lindsey, I think that's so. I know a lot of listeners. That's super inspiring to go wait like, because I think sometimes you just get stuck. And I love how you didn't choose the circumstances. You know, you kind of found yourself in the circumstances that forced you to kind of come to grips with it and in many ways that probably was a gift that I don't know if you would call it a gift, but from the outside, looking in in hindsight it and go actually there is a different way, like I don't have to live with this level of anxiety in order to still be successful. And so how would you coach the leaders listening who are feeling the tension of that? Like, what would you coach them to do to find that healthier balance in balance is even the right word but a healthier path where anxiety is not driving us so much?
Speaker 1:Totally, Without having to have their entire livelihood leveled. And, yeah, I would much prefer it for you listeners to not have to go through that. Um, you know the the idea that I kind of touched on earlier about separating your sense of self-worth from your success. I think, um, I think just our culture and anyone who's a high achiever those things just feel very like tightly braided together and so becoming more aware that your wins and losses in business are not reflective of you and your value and your worthiness as a human and, like Jamie Kern Lima has a book out right now, Worthy, that she just came out with that is so central to this idea.
Speaker 2:So I'd recommend it to everyone.
Speaker 1:That is just pivotal. And then another thing too you know, Jenni, you were just saying about, like, that season of life, and I look back now. I do agree it is a gift, and it was a gift even at the time it was so hard. But what I refer to that type of season as, and maybe this like can give some freedom to anyone who's in the thick of one of those, those, you know, seasons of just hardship and challenge. I call that the monster that saved me. And I, during that time of life, I was very it just kind of kind of like obsessed with the story of Jonah and and some of this is because Jonah was called to Nineveh and he was like this is the one place I'm never going to go.
Speaker 1:And I was called back to my hometown, which was the one place I was never going to go. We had to uproot our family from our community, move back to my hometown in order to make ends meet. And I was just like I feel like Jonah, I feel like Jonah and I feel like I'm now swallowed in the belly of the whale. And that was the monster, right, and you're going where is this thing?
Speaker 1:going to deliver me. Like, am I ever going to be able to get out of this? Right now it just feels like, you know, it's this gross, horrible, messy middle of a situation, yeah, and ultimately, that whale is what delivered Jonah to exactly where he was supposed to be and who he was supposed to be, and for me, I look at that as this is the monster that saved us. You know, it was really really really hard at the time, but ultimately this company would not be who it is, our family would not be who they are. I would not be the wife and mother and leader that I am had we not gone through that. Wow.
Speaker 2:Wow, so powerful. Lindsey. This has been just really. I mean just fun to catch up as a friend, but really powerful to hear just your journey and story over these last few years and just how much you've grown and both yourself and the business is just incredibly inspiring. Before you go, I want you to tell folks about your podcast. I love the title. Who Made you the Boss? I was like are you the boss of me was what I wanted to say and I was like no, that's not right. Who made you the boss? So give us a quick overview of the podcast. Like why that? Why that title? What do you focus on? Where can we find it? Just give us a quick synopsis of the podcast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks for saying that the title is so tongue in cheek, because for many of us I don't know if you've ever had this experience, Jenni I have a number of times, almost daily. Where I look in the mirror and like I've, you know, I put my shirt on backwards or I'm like how do you lead this company? And I'm like like if anyone knew right, and I asked myself that that like inner critic comes out and they ask the question of like well, who made you the boss?
Speaker 1:Like that is exactly what I wanted people to feel when they heard that title and when they listened to the show.
Speaker 1:So it's all about like let's tackle those like modern gremlins that get in our head right, like the imposter syndrome and the perfectionism and the obsession of control that's really just an illusion. Like let's talk about that with other incredibly successful people and finally call those things out, because it's such a lonely journey when you are in that leadership seat. A nd I oftentimes felt like people were not willing to just really lay it all out there, and so that's why I created who Made you the Boss. You can find it on any podcast platform that you listen to, but it's conversations just like this right, where we're like honestly diving into the dark side of success and the risk to the reward and what that actually looks like.
Speaker 2:That's so good. Yeah, everybody needs to go check that out, because I mean, as soon as you launched it, I was like, oh my gosh, this is so great, so great. You've had some amazing guests on the show, so make sure we'll put links in the show notes so everybody can go check it out. And then tell us a little more about Jet Set and where people can stay connected with you, learn about the agency and yeah.
Speaker 1:All the things Jets et World Travel. If you're planning a trip anywhere around the globe, please feel free to contact our team. They're a team of travel advisors which a lot of times people hear that and say wait, do the travel agents still exist? They are busier and more advanced than ever because of this world that we're living in now, right? People
Speaker 2:need travel help more than ever. Yeah, of this world that we're living in now, right, people need travel help more than ever. Yeah, you need travel more than ever and there's so many options Like now you can kind of go do it. It's like you actually need somebody who knows what they're doing to make sure you don't book something you didn't intend.
Speaker 1:Yes, it is the. It is the expert that you never knew you needed when it came to your free leisure time, which is something you can't get back right you don't want to get that family trip wrong or that anniversary trip wrong and be the place that TripAdvisor said was good, just because it was good for the guy down the street. Like you want to go to the place, that's great for you.
Speaker 1:And so the advisors are just incredibly well-versed at customizing trips. I use them myself now, too, because I need help all the time with travel. So Jets et World Travel where you can find them. Where you can find me is just Lindseyepperly. com is going to have all the links to Instagram and LinkedIn, where I'm most active. We've got some cool resources. I talk a lot about imposter syndromes. We've got a resource on how to turn imposter syndrome into inspiration and we've got all the links to the podcast, so that way, lindseyepperly. com is just the best place to find everything in one place.
Speaker 2:Awesome, Lindsey, thank you so much. This is fun. I'm grateful for you, grateful for years of friendship and being able to just parallel your journey and just see all that you've done, and you're just such an inspiration. So thanks for joining us. Today, Jenni, I feel the same way. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2:All right, friends, I know that you took some nuggets away from that conversation and I want to encourage you go check out Lindsey's website, lindseyepperly. com. Go listen to her podcast. Who Made you the Boss? So so, so good, and I want to just encourage you to maybe think about some of the things that she shared.
Speaker 2:What's that lid for you? What's that shift you need to make in your leadership? Maybe you need to grow to a new level, to a new season. What's that sign of evolution for you as a leader? And maybe go process that with another friend or another leader, maybe a coach in your world who can kind of help speak into the season of leadership you're in and perhaps that sense of burnout that you feel maybe it is a sign of evolution. Maybe there's some changes that you need to make to lead at a different level. Speaking of burnout, if you found yourself struggling to fit in time for both family and work, over committing and under delivering, maybe struggling to get time off to refuel and relax, or simply not executing the goals that you set at the start of the year? It might be time for a new approach. Carey Nieuwhof has a free assessment that will help you identify the warning signs of burnout and help you determine if you're overworked or overcommitted as a leader. It's completely free, takes just a few minutes to complete and will provide you with actionable steps you can take to start living and leading at your best. To take it, just visit burnoutindicator. com Again, that's burnoutindicator. com to take the free assessment and find a new strategy to lead at a sustainable pace without losing impact.
Speaker 2:Friends, I hope today's episode was helpful to you. I hope that sometimes, hearing stories of other leaders, those moments of burnout, those seasons of kind of being a little bit too controlling, I think we all resonate with those, don't we? And so I hope that the conversation today just helped you think a little differently about how to keep leading. Well, I'd love to hear what you thought of this week's episode. You can connect with me on Instagram and Facebook, at Get4 sight or at Jenni Catron, and then I'd love it if you would share. Share it with another friend, share it with another leader, talk about it as a leadership team and then, if you haven't, would you leave that five-star review. Let us know that this episode and this podcast are helping you on your leadership journey. Thanks for listening today. Keep leading well and we'll see you next week.