Lead Culture with Jenni Catron
Navigating the complexities of leadership can be daunting and overwhelming. With Jenni Catron and her guests as your trusted and experienced guides, your leadership journey can become less overwhelming and more fulfilling. Jenni and the 4Sight team want to help you become a healthy leader who leads a thriving organization. Listen to discover the tools and wisdom you need to gain the 4Sight for success!
Lead Culture with Jenni Catron
222 | Redefining Leadership: Navigating the Post-COVID Era and the Millennial Workforce with Holly Tate
When we think of leadership, we often revert to the traditional model of management. But is that model still relevant in a post-COVID world, and with a millennial workforce? That's the question we explore with Holly Tate, Senior Vice President of Growth at Leadr. Holly, whose passion for people development is infectious, shares why she believes the old model of leadership is outdated. We discuss the five characteristics of high-performing teams and the paramount importance of building trust intentionally within your teams.
You'll learn how to foster a healthy culture of feedback and recognize each team member's unique strengths. Holly guides us through the key differences between coaching and criticism, stresses the need for self-awareness, and the importance of individual development plans. We're shifting the focus from climbing the corporate ladder to enhancing the individual's skills and strengths. Leadership is not about titles, but about intentional investment in the growth of your team members.
In the final part of our discussion, Holly provides valuable insight into the challenges of a hybrid work environment. We explore the essential role culture plays as a system that people react to. How can you create a culture that works for distributed teams? What tools can you use to reinforce that culture? Holly shares her personal journey of leading a team from five to almost 40 people, underlining the need to never assume trust and always strive for a balance in everything we do. Prepare for an episode packed with invaluable insights on leadership and personal growth.
About Holly
Holly Tate is SVP of Growth at Leadr. She is a growth strategist, entrepreneur, speaker, and member of the Forbes Communication Council.
Before joining Leadr, Holly Vice President of Business Development & Marketing at Vanderbloemen, where she led partnerships, brand growth, demand and lead generation, sales and marketing alignment, and new industry initiatives for the company.
Holly is founder of performance marketing agency, The Ready Network, and an international speaker on marketing, communications, brand growth, leadership development, and workplace culture. She has spoken at conferences including Pushpay Summit, Texas Ministry Conference, Engage, Northwest Ministry Conference, That Church Conference, and ICMA (India).
As a member of the Forbes Communications Council, Holly contributes thought leadership on marketing and communications to Forbes online where her advice has been featured in 40+ articles.
Resources
We would love to hear from you!
Send us an email at podcast@get4sight.com and let us know if there somebody you think I should interview! Maybe there is somebody who is doing exceptional with their culture, or building a healthy culture, or rebuilding a culture.
We need your help to get the LeadCulture podcasts in front of more leaders! There are three simple things you can do that truly help us:
- Review us on Apple podcasts
- Subscribe - we’re available wherever you listen to podcasts.
- Share - let your friends know about the podcast by sharing your favorite episode on social media!
Hey friends, I'm your host, Jenni Catron, and this is the Lead Culture Podcast, where I coach you to lead yourself well so you can lead others better. My team and I at the 4sight Group are committed to building confident leaders, extraordinary teams and thriving cultures. Each week, we'll take a deep dive into a leadership or culture topic that will give you the tools you need to lead with clarity and confidence and build a thriving team. On this week's episode, I am joined by my good friend, Holly Tate. Holly is the Senior Vice President of Growth at Leadr that you have heard me talk about so often. We are big fans of Leadr and you're going to hear Holly share a little bit more about that resource today. But Holly is a growth strategist, an entrepreneur, a speaker and member of the Forbes Communication Council. Now, before joining Leadr, holly was Vice President of Business Development and Marketing at Vanderbloemen, where she led partnerships, brand growth, demand and lead generation, sales and marketing alignment and new industry initiatives for the company. Holly is also the founder of a performance marketing agency called the Ready Network and she is an international speaker on marketing communications, brand growth, leadership, development and workplace culture. As a member of the Forbes Communication Council. Holly contributes thought leadership on marketing and communication to Forbes Online, where her advice has been featured in 40 plus articles. So she is a busy leader. She has a lot going on. Holly has been a longtime friend. She's actually been on the podcast.
Speaker 2:I think this is the third episode. I should have gone back and checked that before I recorded this, but we'll go do that homework. But today we dig into a conversation about why is management dead? So at Leadr they have a brand new book out called Management is Dead. You want to go check that out. And she really talks about this idea of really moving from managers to coaches, to guides to leaders, and why that matters so much. She tells us about the five characteristics of high performing teams. We dig into those characteristics a bit and then she shares just some of what she's learning as a leader and why we should never assume we have trust and be intentionally and purposeful about earning it. And so you guys, this conversation is such a helpful. First of all, lots of just camaraderie and friendship probably shows up through the episode, but Holly is one of those kindred spirits who really understands the importance of healthy leaders and healthy culture, and I think that shines through this episode today. Holly, it's good to have you back. Thanks for joining me.
Speaker 1:Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to remember now is this you might have been a third time guest.
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 2:I think it's possible. At least two, maybe three. Yeah, at least two, maybe three. So you're a regular favorite, like that might be a once a year thing.
Speaker 1:We should like title that. What could we call that? I don't know, I don't know. I need to title.
Speaker 2:Something special yeah, Something special if you're back three times. Yes, no, but I'm excited to talk today because obviously it would be great to catch up on all things at leader and how you guys are doing. But then you also. You guys have released a new book called Management is Dead and I am excited to dig into that today. But before we get there, catch us up on life. What's going on in your world? Any big news we should know about. Big updates we should know.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you, I'm not. I haven't melted yet in the 100 plus degree weather we're having in Houston Texas this summer. It has been brutal.
Speaker 2:This is where, like you're, smart to live in Wisconsin. Well, we had a hundred degree day this week here in Wisconsin in late August. Yeah, so I got like one day of it. It was only one day. It was like this little, like little blip, and I was like, oh, texas friends, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:It's been. It has been relentlessly hot, so that's the latest. But the good news is I get to travel for work a lot with leader, get to go visit customers and just kind of evangelize the work that we're doing around people development, and so sometimes I get a break from the heat, whereas my husband has to stay here and hold down the fort.
Speaker 2:So especially Houston. Like bless you all. Like I, the few times I've visited Houston. Like the weather is never very friendly.
Speaker 1:I know.
Speaker 2:No, I don't mind hot weather, but yeah.
Speaker 1:It's just really humid.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the humidity is rough, I'm not going to lie.
Speaker 1:So it is. It is rough, it's beautiful here, you know, in the fall, over the winter, but the summers it's gross, yeah, it's intense.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I want to dive into this topic of management is dead. Okay, tell us, tell us why. Yeah, why is management dead, yeah?
Speaker 1:Well, so for those of you who have never heard of, like what leader? What are they talking about? We spell it weird it's L E, a D R. The whole idea is that the old way, which is still a lot of the way that people today lead, which is true management style. So it's, I want to be a good manager, but we believe that that is dead because of so many things.
Speaker 1:Number one the whole world of work looks so different than it used to, especially post COVID. We're all in different places. Now we're all connected 24, seven and especially the next generation. Their expectations of the world of work are so different. So where it used to be that you know, even me, I'm kind of an anomaly. I'm a millennial, but I've been in my jobs for longer than the average millennial typically is.
Speaker 1:But it used to be. You would, you know, join a job and you would stay there for years and raise in the ranks and get your you know a couple of percentage pay every couple of years, whereas, especially the younger generation, they can start a business on Instagram now, yeah Right, they can go to YouTube and learn how to do anything, so they're no longer looking for a quote unquote manager, they're really looking to be led and developed. They're looking for that relationship that they can't get anywhere else, more of that guide and that mentor. And so that's why we believe that management is dead, that supervisory, managing, right Relationship it doesn't work anymore. It's more of someone who's a guide and a coach and a true. That's what we would call a true leader.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah. That's so fascinating because I bet a lot of listeners can resonate with that. What do you say to the person who's like? But what about like holding him accountable? What about you do have to make sure everything's happening and is on task and like, so what's your reaction to the first person that is fearful of, but you still have to manage things?
Speaker 1:Yeah it has to be alive a little bit right, it can't be totally dead. We've we have these five principles that are About consistent leadership, and when these things are present which I'll go through in a second that's where we're able to have the both the accountability but also the trust. I mean, I think about Patrick Lincioni and the five dysfunctions of a team, right, like, yeah, it talks about accountability and trust are at the foundation of every relationship. But especially when we're on a team and I think a lot of us as managers forget about that because we're so Focused on performance, we're so focused and I've been there, I've been that bulldozer manager it's like guys, we got a goal to hit, I don't care about anything else except the end zone and let's go.
Speaker 1:But what I realize is, when I am that focused on management and performance, I Bulldoze, all of the people that are in my way lose their trust and then they either they leave or I have to work is that much harder later to rebuild that trust, which takes way longer than if I would just bring them along on the journey Right and earn their trust in the meantime, in the, you know, in the first place? So those five things are, we really believe in one-on-ones, one-on-one check-ins, having them consistently. I'm a huge fan of weekly one-on-ones. I just think that bi-weekly or once a month is just too slow. Yeah, but you're not having anyone on ones, just start somewhere. That's what I always tell leaders.
Speaker 2:Well, and Holly, take that, take a minute there, and you know, because what's staggering is there are probably people that are like what do you mean by a one-on-one, yeah? So yeah, explain that a little bit of like even what, what that means to you.
Speaker 1:Yes. So a one-on-one is a intentional Scheduled check-in between you and your direct report and again, I like to do it on a weekly basis, but we'd say at least bi-weekly. Yeah, and I, what I try to do is focus in three areas. So first is care. You know, I just admitted that I can be that bulldozer manager sometimes. But the first thing I want to do is really make sure that the person that I'm leading knows that I, I care about them and I care a lot. That's usually why I'm so intense, because I care a lot. But if I don't lead with care, I don't ask Anna and Carissa, you know how they're doing, how's work-life balance, how's the new baby, etc. And I just jump into projects that that can signal to them that I care more about the projects than I do as them.
Speaker 1:As a person, that's good. Yeah, I try to start there. Sometimes it's two minutes and sometimes it's 20 minutes. It just depends on what you know me and that person need. That day, sure. And then I try to touch on development. So care and then development, and this is just the person's best next step. Sometimes you know Carissa who's on my team. She was in your women in leadership cohort yeah, it's for the. You know six months that she was in that cohort with you. We talked about that every week. It was a recurring agenda item. What are you thinking? How are you applying it to your role? Because if she's just going and attending and then I never ask her how it's going, we're not truly developing her and so that's good, I try to touch on that, or maybe it's just reading a book or Taking an online course.
Speaker 1:You know it could. It could mean a myriad of different things, but really just trying to make sure that that person is truly being developed. And then, thirdly, performance, and notice the order Right, so it's like care. Development. And then performance, because if we're letting the person know we care about them, we're earning their trust, which is the foundation of every healthy relationship. Right for developing them. Which means, hey, it's not about me, it's about you, Jenni, how can I help you? And performance goes so much easier.
Speaker 2:Trust because of care and development, their performance kind of takes care of itself at that point, yeah, so passionate about the one-on-one well, and even just that little microcosm, that one you know Characteristic or attribute of a high performing Individual, you know leader is, you hear that is more of a leader than a manager. Like, even as you describe those three things that you're doing in that one-on-one, all of a sudden you go well, yeah, the management, part of that per se, the performance you know where you're checking in on performance, that's a, that's a fraction of it, because you've you really coached and developed first. You cared, coached, developed, etc. So like you can give just a little microcosm there of like that's the, that's the distinction, that's the difference. That's happening. Is that fair?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. I think there's this visual and I think it was Adam Grant actually, where this originally came from. Some obsessed with him on social media, like people, are like Holly, your Instagram is just reposting Adam Grant stuff. I'm like, yeah. I want to repost everything he puts out.
Speaker 2:Right, it's so good. I'm like how can one individual have all of those golden nuggets every day? I'm like I don't know, but he does it. I'm just like I just need to hang it out, like just just go retweet, repost everything Adam Grant talks about, and you know, yes, it is so true.
Speaker 1:But yeah, he posted this visual that I thought was so good, I think. I think when he originally posted it it was about conflict and the idea was that, like what we usually experience as conflict is two or two people pointing at each other, right, and the conflict is like in the middle and we're pointing at each other, you know. But healthy conflict is two people standing side by side, arm and arm, pointing together at the problem. Oh, I think that's the same as leadership, right? Like management is like two people pointing at each other, right, and I think that you know development or true leadership is Standing, you know, hand-in-hand, arms locked, pointing together in the same direction, tackling the problem together. That's coaching, love that compared to management.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's good, that's good, Okay, so tell us about a couple of these other characteristics.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so regular one-on-ones. The second one is consistent feedback. I know, and like literally, feedback is an F word, f word, and a lot of us have had really negative experiences with feedback, and so when we see high performing teams, high performing leaders, is when there's an intentional effort To create a healthy culture of feedback, so kind of like what we just talked about. Right, like when we're giving and receiving feedback, it's it's given from a place of coaching and development and not criticism, and actually learned that for huge any you. You gave a talk on feedback One time where you talked about that difference between coaching and criticism.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean being so clear about what is that goal in mind that that person or that team is trying to achieve. That's good, objective feedback on how they can get there, rather than criticism is Saying that something is wrong or there's a perceived fault or mistake, and so that is a really important distinction for us as leaders, to make sure that we're Coaching and not criticizing when it comes to feedback.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:And then the third one is recognizing our team for their unique skills and strengths. So you know, really knowing our team members whether that's using a tool like Working Genius, which I know you at 4Sight Group use that one a lot MyersBriggs , or Disc I mean there's so many different ones predictable success but really making sure that we know ourselves and our team so that we can recognize them for the unique skills and strengths that they bring to the table and make sure we've got everybody in the right place, sure so.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's really good.
Speaker 1:The last two are clear goals and then making sure that everybody has a development plan. So making sure that goals are clear so that we can all answer the question on you know what's most important right now to our mission or our company. And then development plans. And again, I think we overcomplicate these. I see like executive teams or HR teams spend hours, if not months, sometimes even a year, like we're still working on our development plan pathway and like I think it's just a best next step. And yeah, with every person on your team, what's their best next step and how can you give them one resource to help them get there?
Speaker 2:So those are the five yeah, those are so good One-on-ones consistent feedback, unique skills and strengths, clear goals, development plans.
Speaker 2:I wanna ask you a question on the development plans one, because I am hearing a lot of questions around this lately about, well, what's my development pathway? Like, you know, how do I develop here? And for a lot of the organizations that we work with, you know they would be considered small organizations, small businesses, even if they have up to a couple hundred employees, and so typically in those environments there aren't a lot of like obvious promotional opportunities, right, like on a team of 30, there are only so many directors, there are only so many managers, et cetera. And so what I see a lot is that people equate development with a title change, and I've been trying to help reframe that with a hey, we want everybody growing and developing and continuing to, you know, just develop those skills and strengths that they have and know that they're being invested in here. Is that how you guys would look at that? Development plans as well? It's not just a promotional plan. Is that fair to say?
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I'm so glad you brought this up because I hear the same thing. It's like oh, but we don't have any room for promotions, but I really don't think that's what the majority of people are asking for when they ask to be developed. So I think everybody should read Radical Candor by Kim Scott.
Speaker 1:She talks about this concept between rock stars and superstars, and there's been multiple people on our leader team, like employees at leader, who have read that book and said it changed their lives, because they realize that they don't want to be a manager Like, they don't want to lead people, they want to be the best. I think about Anna on my team. She read that book and came to me and she was like Holly. I feel like I finally have a language to communicate what I've been trying to say for years, which is I want to be the best marketing manager ever and I want to continue to grow in my skills and expertise and become a specialist as a marketing manager. I don't want to be a director, vp or you know and lead people and be responsible for strategy, and that is great.
Speaker 1:Like we need both. We need rock stars and superstars. If Anna and I both wanted to be, you know, the one that wants to get promoted, all the time we'd be in trouble Because somebody would have to do the work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then it said, like your only opportunity is to move on, and what I've seen time and time again is we. Then, you know, if somebody does move into one of those positions because that's the perceived way to develop and grow, then they're, they're promoted out of their actual strengths and you know, and they're miserable, the organization suffers for it. And so I think I love how you framed it as development plans and I love also how you said just what's the next best step. And you know, as I've done this with teams through the years, it's like just a conversation with that employee saying, hey, where do you think you need to grow? What are you passionate about learning and excelling in? What do I see as your leader, not manager? And you know, what do we want to?
Speaker 2:You know, what do we want to map out for the year, six months, whatever your duration is, and that commitment from us as leaders to our team members to say, hey, we want to invest in your development. And it can be simple, it might just be we're they're reading a book a quarter, or they're going to a conference once a year or they're doing a course. You know they're doing foresight leadership Institute. You know, like whatever that might be, we're just intentional on that development. So I just wanted to call that out because I'm just hearing so much about that piece that I think is a topic of conversation right now yeah, I'm so glad you did.
Speaker 1:And just a practical example of that, like in Anna and her review, that we just did because I know that she wants to be that rock star then I am now able to help coach her and say, okay, anna, what is one technical area in marketing where you want to grow in the next six months? And so she went out and found a free online course through HubSpot that she's going to be taking and to help her, you know, be better as a rock star in marketing. Whereas if I didn't have that, if we didn't have that conversation or shared you know language I would probably be like Anna, you should be taking a management course and learning how to lead people. And she'd be like no, I don't like this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's not what I'm passionate about. Yeah, so good. Holly, I'm curious, because you guys work with a lot of leaders and a lot of different organizations. That's one of those challenges or topics that's kind of bubbling up. But what are some other things that you're hearing? What are some of the challenges leaders are facing right now from your perspective?
Speaker 1:Yes, One of the biggest things is just still figuring out this whole hybrid versus in-office totally remote. I'm hearing that more and more. I think the article just came out, which is so ironic, that Zoom is requiring everybody to come back to work which is hilarious.
Speaker 1:I think across the board, leaders are really trying to figure this out, because I think that there's still this fear, going back to management versus development that if I can't see my team, I don't know what they're working on. We lack visibility because we're all over the place. Even for organizations that do have an in-person culture now there's a lot of folks that are working from home sometimes or different hours the visibility piece is challenging. How do we know that we're all aligned, that we're working on the most important thing, that our goals are clear? That has been a big challenge for leaders that I talked to. I really desire that visibility piece.
Speaker 2:Are you seeing any organizations, any leaders starting to crack the code on that? What are some things that you're seeing that are working in helping people navigate a hybrid working environment?
Speaker 1:I think, first of all, have someone on the team that is responsible in owning your culture. Jenni, I know this is what you guys do so well 4Sight the Group. It's just amazing to me how it's still like oh yeah, well, that's just an HR function. The HR leader is like wait, what? My KPIs don't have anything to do with culture. They're all about compliance or performance. Being really clear about one defining our culture. If you're listening to this and you are like what is that? I don't know what that means. You need to 4Sight the Group now. I didn't pay her to do that, by the way. Yeah, getting so clear about it.
Speaker 1:Yes, then having someone on the team. It doesn't have to be an HR, but someone who is that culture champion that is owning that and really driving that up, down and across the org chart. Then the second thing of course, I'm biased. I love our platform for this, but making sure that you're using tools that give you that visibility, not in a micromanage way. When we've built leader, we've been really intentional. There's plenty of tools out there. If you want to be a big brother and you want to track people's time and micromanage them, there's lots of technology out there that will do that. What we set out to do with leader was build a platform that allows it's like a digital workspace.
Speaker 1:It allows teams to work together but also gives the executive team that visibility into. Are the behaviors that we are saying we expect actually being pulled through the org chart Actually developing our people as everyone engaged in growing, and are we getting our work done, making sure that you're using tools and resources to be able to have that visibility so you can confidently answer that question, keep your eye on it and make changes and iterations, as you're seeing that inside of for us at Leader, that digital workspace, I love that you highlight that, because the visibility piece is huge.
Speaker 2:I think one of the things that we've coached organizations on in this area is that we were lazy in the old way and that proximity gave us visibility and it gave us the illusion of we were all aligned, we were all working together effectively In some cases, we were. What the hybrid dynamic has done is again, it's taken away some of that proximity and it's created a gap in visibility. Figuring out how do we fill that gap? One of the things when we're doing the culture work with teams, we're helping them define that culture, build the plan for what they aspire to. We talk about how so much of culture is actually a system which people react to because they're like oh, culture is organic. Yes, and in any organization that's more than a handful of people.
Speaker 2:We actually need some systems that reinforce the things that are most critical to who we are and how we work together. We coach our clients to actually use Leader because it's such a helpful and engaging platform. You can reinforce those things that are so critical to your culture through the platform. Being thoughtful and intentional of yes, this is what we want to look like. This is who we are at our best. This is what we want to look like Even a distributed team in a hybrid scenario and here using those tools that reinforce the systems that make that culture a reality. They work together so critically, but it does take more intentionality. Again, I think it was the lazy way of well, if they're all here, we can have some semblance of control on it. Now we have to have more digital systems that help us do that.
Speaker 1:Nailed it. It's moving from that culture of caught with a C taught with with a T. It used to be that that was based only on the size of your organization, but now, because we're hybrid or we're fully remote, we have to be thinking about culture from the very beginning, as how do we teach this, how do we scale this? Because we can't just sit next to each other in the same room every day and observe behavior.
Speaker 2:That's right. That's exactly right, holly. I'm curious what are you learning as a leader Now you've been in your role? Senior VP.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'm two years now. Yeah, Gosh, that's gone fast. You're crazy. I know you're with me from the very beginning, Jenni. You remember that conversation we had when I was like I think I want to do this job.
Speaker 2:Should I do it? Matt Trusseter still owes me for that. Yes, but yeah, two and a half years you guys have been on just a rocket ride of growth. I know that maybe two and a half years, maybe the same title, but I know that it is continuing to stretch you and grow you as a leader. I'd love to hear what are you learning?
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness, so much. Yeah, I keep telling even my team. I'm like this is going to be in a book one day. I'm in the middle of living it. I feel like I'm only halfway through the book right now.
Speaker 1:My own personal journey. Even over the last year and a half at Leadr, I've learned so much. I came on board two and a half years ago as a one woman marketing team and literally was doing all the things, from building things in Canva to updating our website, to working on strategy and all the things. Then I grew our marketing team to about five people and then, almost overnight, Matt came to me and said our CEO and said hey, holly, I think I want you to lead the sales team, which was a downline of like 30 people. So overnight my downline went from like five to almost 40 people. Oh yeah, because we were building a new team at the time as well that I was leading, and so it was this exhilarating opportunity, right, it was like, oh my goodness, this is my on paper, my dream job. But what I came to learn so many things through that experience. I mean, the first thing I learned was I assumed that I had the team's trust because I worked with all of them before, even though they didn't report to me. I assumed that I had the team's trust. And what I learned so much in those, especially those first six months, was you can never assume that you have trust, always be making relational deposits. We kind of talked about trust at the beginning of had jannies, five dysfunctions of a team, but like never think you have trust and always be working to earn it. And so, because we talked about this before we started recording working genius, I'm a DG with disk, I'm a high D, I'm an in-eargram eight like lots of energy, intense passion, lots of ideas. And so I went in there and was like let's go and didn't bring my team along on that journey, maybe lots of changes really fast. And everybody was like whiplash and all that. So that was a really big lesson that I learned early on, which will kind of lead to the most recent lesson. So all that to say, I'll kind of end the story Like I actually ended up giving the sales team back over to our CEO, and so it was really humbling because I felt like I'd failed.
Speaker 1:It was like that was at the same time that you know, there were the economy started to go crazy and we were all like well, it's gonna happen, you know, and leading sales at that point is hard, and so that was. You know, I really felt like man, I failed, like I have not been able to lead this team at the capacity and at the performance that I really wanted to. But all that to the most recent learning that I've had, because I've never been more energized in the work I'm doing today, in the last like four months and my whole two and a half years. I'm more energized in the last few months than I ever have been at leader and it's because, number one, I'm working in my sweet spot, like my working genius, like DG, every single day, yeah, yeah. And then, two, I had this realization where and I worked one of my coaches helped me figure this out. She said, holly, you can choose to have influence or authority.
Speaker 1:And they're not necessarily the same thing, right, and usually when you are, when you usually have to cash out influence to earn authority, but influence is so much bigger than any authority you could ever have. And so it's interesting because now I have very a lot less direct reports In fact, I only have two today and I had a lot in my downline a year ago, and so at first it was really humbling and it was like, oh my gosh, my team is so small. Now I had this big team and this big responsibility, but what I have more of today is more influence. So I had authority at the time, but I didn't have influence.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And now I've really learned and tried to live into that. What does it look like to really lead from a place of influence and steward that well, both internally and externally? So anyway, that was kind of a saga and pretty.
Speaker 2:No, it's so good. I'm sure so many listeners yeah.
Speaker 2:I was gonna say I know a ton of listeners are listening to that going that I like I. That resonates, I get that. So, yeah, thank you for sharing that, thanks for just being a little honest about that journey for you, because, again, I do think we naturally assume just more is better. So, okay, yeah, let me take on that team, let me take on that thing and I was so guilty of this it's probably still on, but I remember that very distinctly the church in Nashville when it was growing so rapidly. It's like okay, yeah, okay, yeah, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's just like but there's a point of diminishing returns and you're not in your sweet spot and all of a sudden you've lost your energy, your passion, your enthusiasm for the work and you're going. What in the world? This is everything I thought I wanted. And so to pause and do that evaluation, to have honest conversations with your leader and to be willing and humble enough to release something that maybe isn't, you know, in the it's not the best season for it, or it's not the best for your giftedness and to be able to like, really focus on that sweet spot, cause you're gonna be better for you, you're gonna be better for the organization and for the team as a result of that, so thanks for sharing that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, of course, I hope it encourages others to be and to be more open about it, cause when we are, that's where we can all help each other.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's so true, so true, okay. So what is one thing you would coach our listeners to do today? Knowing, like the landscape of leadership, what leaders are navigating? You know a lot of the listeners to lead culture. What would you coach them if you could be the coach to all of us?
Speaker 1:Yes, I mean the number one thing is get your one on one's on the calendar.
Speaker 1:And the biggest pushback I hear is holy, I already have a busy calendar. Like there's no way I can't do it, but it's counterintuitive. But when you get your one on one's on the calendar and you actually have really great one on ones you will be amazed at how much of your capacity is being freed up Because your team will be able to run faster, more effectively when you're empowering them with the care and developments and coaching that they need to go accomplish their mission. So get your one on one calendar.
Speaker 2:So true, I love that so much. I have seen that play out over and over again in my journey and with a lot of the leaders that we've coached, that like really prioritizing that. And back to that trust building piece, like that commitment to your direct reports to give them that focus, time and attention. That one on one space like that is like just such a significant trust builder. That then, and the talk that I did for culture conference, was trust building behaviors and it's those simple, consistent behaviors of leadership that actually build trust and give teams a great foundation for excelling. So I love that so much. Okay, how do we learn more about leader? Cause I think a lot of folks listening actually are like I need to know a little bit more about this tool, cause we've just skimmed the surface on that today. So hopefully we created some curiosity and people can go reach out to you, get a demo, et cetera, and just get connected with you. Beyond that, tell us how to do all that.
Speaker 1:Yes, well, it's leadr. com, but again we spell it kind of weird. So it's L E A D R dot com and you can chat right there on the website with our team or request a demo, even see a product overview. So that is all right there on our website and my emails Pretty easy. It's hollytapes At leadercom and you can always reach out anytime. I'd love to connect with you.
Speaker 2:So good, holly. Thank you so much for coming back, for being a returning guest, for pouring into us as leaders, and we will be sure to put all of that info in the show notes and folks I would encourage you definitely go check out leader L-E-A-D-Rcom and get your one-on-ones on the calendar. Let's do it. Thanks, denny. All right, friends, I know that was helpful to you. I took lots of notes as I was talking to Holly and I hope you did as well. Make sure you go check out leader L-E-A-D-Rcom and check out what they do. Check out, do a demo and see what that resource is all about. But again, having systems, having tools that help you reinforce the best habits and behaviors of your team leader is one of those resources that helps you do that. So I really wanna encourage you to check that out. Let me know what you thought of this week's episode. Connect with me on Instagram and Facebook. You can find us at Get4sight G-E-T, the number four, s-i-g-h-t, or at Jenny Catron, j-e-n-n-i-c-a-t-r-o-n. Guys, I actually love hearing from you, so, like, message me on Instagram or social media, send me an email at podcast at get4sightcom. Is there somebody you think I should interview? Maybe there is somebody who is just doing exceptional with their culture, like maybe you know a leader who has done really good work to build a healthy culture, maybe rebuild a culture. I'd love to hear their story and consider them for the podcast. So if you have some suggestions, send them my way. Podcast at getforsightcom. In the meantime, make sure you are signed up for weekly insights. That is my email that goes out to you every week telling you our latest blog posts, our latest podcast episode where we're gonna be things that we're working on, new initiatives that we have going on.
Speaker 2:You wanna make sure you are in the know on all of that. So go to get4sightcom and you can sign up there. We also have done some updates to the website. We talk a lot more intentionally about the lead culture framework. So if you've been trying to figure out oh gosh, where do we start? I know we need to do some work on culture or I just wanna make sure we are really doing good, healthy, just reflection on our culture and investing in our team. We really walk you through what that lead culture process looks like and so you can check that out there. Then you can get in touch with one of us and we'd be happy to answer your questions or help you work on your culture more intentionally. Well, you guys, thanks for listening today. Keep leading well, and we will see you next time.