260 | Creating a Culture of Accountability and Feedback

In this episode, Jenni Catron discusses the topic of avoidance cultures and the importance of accountability and feedback in creating a healthy work environment. She emphasizes the need for leaders to provide clarity to team members about their roles and responsibilities, as well as the importance of peer-to-peer accountability. Catron also highlights the value of feedback in personal and professional growth, and provides four key aspects of quality feedback: relationship, positivity, consistency, and thoughtfulness.

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Transcript

Jenni Catron (00:01.196)
Hey leaders, welcome to the LeadCulture podcast. We are a part of the Art of Leadership Network and love joining some other amazing shows in that network. I'm your host, Jenni Catron, CEO of the 4Sight Group. And we're a company dedicated to helping leaders develop thriving teams, healthy leaders, thriving teams. That is our focus.

So each week I'll be your guide as we explore practical strategies to equip you with the tools you need to lead with clarity, confidence, and build unstoppable momentum in your organization. My mission is to be your trusted coach, empowering you to master the art of self -leadership so you'll learn to lead yourself well so you can lead others better.

Each week, we take a deep dive on a leadership or a culture topic. You'll hear stories from amazing guests and leaders like you who are committed to leading well. So let's dive in and keep learning on this leadership journey together.

All right, I have a topic for you today that might not be your favorite. I want to talk about avoidance cultures. You ever been in an organization like that where people just kind of tend to avoid the hard things? I've noticed kind of an interesting dynamic in several of the faith -based organizations that I work with. And I don't think it's exclusively related to just faith -based organizations, but I think sometimes in an effort to be nice,

we unintentionally create a culture of avoidance, meaning we don't have a hard conversation or we don't ask that uncomfortable question or just ask if somebody has finished something that they were supposed to be working on. And so we avoid situation and we either hope it goes away or we hope someone else will deal with it. You ever notice that? I'm sure you've done it because I have done it.

Jenni Catron (02:14.868)
it is probably a little bit of our human nature, right? To kind of avoid the hard thing. But what that does is it starts to create a really unhealthy and dysfunctional behavior in our culture that eventually starts to take over and becomes our norm. And so again, I understand the desire to do it. Most of us don't want to be the person who everyone dread seeing. Like if you become the...

you know, person who's always following up and checking on everybody, that's also not what we're talking about, right? There's this healthy balance of good accountability and feedback, which are the two things we're going to talk about today. Because avoidance cultures are unhealthy cultures. They mean that team members are not having honest conversations. They mean that work is getting slowed down and sometimes stalled altogether.

Avoidance cultures foster silos and they prohibit collaboration. And perhaps the thing I kind of hate the most is that avoidance cultures kind of create a culture of tattling, where team members out of exasperation with their coworkers go directly to a more senior leader to referee something that would be better resolved by peer -to -peer accountability. I find myself a lot of times kind of

in when I was on staff at several organizations where I was in a more senior leadership position, people would come to me to solve things. And I'd like, well, have you talked to the other person that they're frustrated with? No. And I'd immediately redirect them to go back and have the conversation with the person they needed to have the conversation with. Because to elevate it to a leader might feel like a simpler solution in the short run, but it

breaks down relationships in the long run. So today I want to give you two things to focus on to diffuse avoidance in your team. Like if you're noticing, we have a tendency to avoid work around, not go directly to one another. I want you to pay attention to these two things today because we want to raise the accountability and the feedback quotients in our teams. Essentially, we want to get comfortable with

Jenni Catron (04:36.63)
the uncomfortable, right? We want to get to a place where our teams are much more comfortable having the uncomfortable conversation. Now, pay attention to what I'm saying here. These conversations still can be a little uncomfortable when we have to hold somebody accountable or we have to give feedback when we're not avoiding the issue, but addressing the issue. We want it to still be mildly uncomfortable. we get, if we make those circumstances completely comfortable,

then we probably have lost a little heart or emotional intelligence. So, but we want to get more comfortable doing the uncomfortable, where we know in the long run that this actually is really good for our relationship and it's really good for our culture when we can go to one another and sometimes have the uncomfortable conversation. That makes sense? Okay, by the way, these two skills that I'm sharing with you are in my new book, Culture Matters.

a framework for helping your team grow, thrive, and be unstoppable. I'm kind of so excited about this book that I keep sharing little snippets, which my publisher probably doesn't love that I'm kind of giving all these snippets a little early, but I'm super excited about this content. And I think you're going to love the framework and seeing it all mapped out in the book. And so I'm really excited about that and being able to share even more with you in the coming weeks about how to get it early.

all the extra things you're gonna get with it. But for right now, here's a couple little tidbits from the new book that I'm super excited about. So let's talk about this idea of accountability. Accountability. Okay, in my 25 years of leadership, which feels crazy to say that, I really have noticed a decline in accountability. Now,

There might be lot of circumstances or reasons why this exists. I've been in different organizations and so I've been in different circumstances. But by and large, I work with a lot of organizations and I generally feel like we have gotten less accountable, both in employees being accountable for their responsibilities and for managers holding their team accountable for those responsibilities. I think that lack of accountability is on both sides.

Jenni Catron (06:53.366)
And again, I suspect there are various contributors to this, but one that stands out to me is the over -criticism of management. Like we've decided we don't like the word management. Decades of leadership material have criticized management while elevating leadership. Now I'm a leadership junkie. I love all things leadership, but if you read my book, The Four Dimensions of Extraordinary Leadership, you know that one of those four dimensions is leading from the mind, which is management. It is that ability.

to help get things done and move things forward. So again, this would be fine if leadership were not disproportionately portrayed as gregarious and relational while undervaluing the discipline and diligence great leaders employ to direct and manage their teams. And so my belief is that management is a function, not the only function, but one of the functions of healthy leadership. And so I think as we've criticized management,

we have diminished accountability. And so I want us to get back to good, healthy accountability within our organizations because I really do think it impacts culture in a significant way. By definition, accountability means an obligation or willingness to accept responsibility or to account for one's actions. Pretty standard, pretty makes sense, right? The best...

teams embrace a culture of accountability, which is they accept responsibility for their actions. That's what that means. Each team member accepts responsibility for their role and they understand that they will be expected to account for their actions. So when a team member comes on, this is their role. They're saying, yes, I am taking responsibility for my role and I know that I will be held accountable. Like this is, it is

at its simplest as employees, it's a transaction, right? Like we're giving our time, energy, we're being responsible for the role that we've been given and we're getting compensated in return for that. And so there's an exchange there which makes accountability really important. Like if we've agreed to, this is my commitment, I'm going to show up here, do this work and I've accepted the responsibility for this role, then I equally need to accept being held accountable

Jenni Catron (09:17.388)
to achieve those ends. Now, some of you are like, of course, but some of you have also noticed there's been a drift in this. And so we want to be really intentional to say, accountability is a trust builder within organizations. That's why it's so key to culture, because when we know that everyone on the team is going to take accountability for their responsibilities, we know we're going to move the mission forward. So a key part of the LeadCulture Framework that

that we use here at 4Sight for culture consulting is about providing clarity for team members. And this is where this gets really important because while we all agree that yes, we have responsibilities, we need to be held accountable to those responsibilities. What I often find is that employees actually lack the clarity for what their role or their responsibilities are. And so when team members lack clarity for their role and responsibilities,

it becomes difficult for them to be accountable. They don't understand what they're accountable for, right? There's fuzziness. I'm not clear on what exactly I'm supposed to be doing. And as a result, they become complacent or disengaged, right? And sometimes we think it's bad behavior. Sometimes we think it's bad attitude, but they actually might be lacking clarity that helps them know how to contribute more effectively. So we have to pause, especially for those of you

in senior leadership seats where you are setting the organizational structure, you're defining the job profiles, you're clarifying roles and responsibilities, you want to first ask, if you're seeing a lack of accountability within team members, you want to first ask, have we given them the clarity they need to know what they're accountable for? And then if that's clear, then we kind of lean into the accountability conversations to help them understand what's expected.

What often happens, again, if a team member lacks clarity, they might deflect that responsibility, claiming, I didn't know that was my responsibility, or I thought someone else was doing that. Now, where this often shows up is maybe if you've had a shift in organizational structure, maybe a shift in mission or vision, and it's impacted people's roles, and all of a sudden things have gotten a little fuzzy.

Jenni Catron (11:36.682)
We need to make sure that we're being really purposeful as leaders to provide clarity that helps everyone understand what's expected of them, because then we can create that accountability. And that accountability is not just manager to employee. It's also peer to peer, right? If I know what my peers are supposed to be doing, then it's easier for me to follow up and say, hey, did you have a chance to finish that report? Were you able to follow up with that client?

Right? As soon as we're clear on one another's responsibilities, it makes the accountability conversations much easier. Accountability is only possible when organizational clarity has been provided. Where accountability goes wrong and gets labeled micromanagement is when accountability isn't accompanied by ongoing conversations that clarify expectations. One of my favorite tools for creating a culture of accountability is just the simple question.

Who is doing what by when? Who is doing what by when? That simple question will alleviate a lot of confusion and it provides immense clarity. Whether that's in a one -on -one conversation, like if you're leaving a conversation, okay, so you're gonna do this by this date or I'm gonna do this by this date. Like if you say that out loud to one another, you've created an agreement. You've created both the clarity and the accountability.

to say, yep, this is what we've agreed to. Also in team meetings, like finishing meetings with that question, making sure that when team members leave the room, they are clear on who is doing what by when. We know what the action plan is. And then it's a lot easier to have the follow -up conversations with one another. When they don't meet the expectation in that agreement then, right now, now that we've clarified the agreement, when somebody doesn't meet that expectation, they have less defense.

for when they're held accountable. So when you do the follow -up and you say, hey, Jen, you said you were gonna have that article written by the state. Do you have that ready? And because I made that agreement in the meeting, I don't have an out for it, right? I have to be accountable for why I didn't get that article done in time. Another powerful and important part of healthy teams.

Jenni Catron (14:02.326)
is that when everyone on the team has clarity of their responsibilities and who is doing what by when peer -to -peer accountability becomes more common and is far more productive than a culture that encourages tattling. As soon as everybody is clear on what one another is doing, then it's much easier for us to just naturally go to another team member and not have to raise it up to a superior somewhere in the organization.

the greater the clarity, the more accountability naturally occurs at all levels of the organization, both laterally and horizontally. And so just that simple question, like if you took one thing away from this today, leaving every meeting with who is doing what by when will radically increase accountability in your organization. So I want you to be thinking about that. And then let's look at the second one, feedback.

Here's a quick question to get you thinking about this one. What's it like to be on the other side of you? Now, I don't know who gets credit for first saying this. Jeff Henderson is the person that I've heard say this frequently. What's it like to be on the other side of you? It's one of the most powerful questions we can learn to ask. Healthy teams foster a culture of feedback, right? We want feedback to be common because feedback is our friend. It helps us know

how to improve, how to take action. Feedback is essentially evaluative communication, right? It is communicating in a way that is giving you more insight, more data for you to get better. I really believe that communication is an act of respect for others, right? And so feedback is an act of respect. Obviously we want to do this with great emotional intelligence. We want to be really thoughtful of how we're giving feedback, but it really can be an act of respect.

feedback while sometimes more personal and sensitive than standard communication of information is the ultimate act of respect for those we engage with. It says, I value you enough to give you feedback that I think is going to make you better or feedback that helps you understand how something was experienced. Feedback done with a desire to help others grow and improve builds trust.

Jenni Catron (16:29.568)
and emphasizes care. These are the kind of cultures we want to be a part of, aren't they? Right? Places where feedback done with a desire to help you grow is extraordinarily valuable. Think for a minute about one of your greatest seasons of growth, right? Like you've probably had those seasons in your work life where they were just exponential seasons of growth. And I bet that it involved someone giving you feedback.

at a critical moment. Like when I look back at the key moments of growth in my story, it often involved another mentor or friend who is willing to give me feedback, willing to say, hey, can I give you some feedback? Can I tell you a little bit about what I'm noticing because I think this will be helpful for you. It also could be something as simple as the tennis coach who corrected your serve. And while you felt really clumsy for a while, in the long run,

Your serve got exponentially better. might be speaking from experience there. Maybe it was the coworker who alerted you to how your hurriedness makes other team members feel anxious. Also might be true of me. Feedback given with an intention to help another person get better is invaluable. And so we want to remember that when we're receiving feedback, when somebody cares enough to give us feedback, like think about this. It's actually really uncomfortable to give people feedback.

especially if they don't ask for it, right? One of the best things you can do is actually open the conversation to others. Hey, what's it like to be on the other side of me? Hey, did you see anything that I need to hear? Could you give me feedback on how I led that meeting? Like anytime you could open the door is really, really valuable. Cause of course you're going to benefit from the feedback and it gives people permission. But when somebody gives you feedback because they really think it's important for you,

There's a different friend of mine who, when she has feedback for her team, she'll say, can I give you some feedback? Like she asked for permission before she just gives it. Well, it immediately helps people kind of like, okay, she cares about me. She's asking if I would be open to receiving this feedback. Again, your emotional intelligence, that you're actually doing it with a heart for care matters, but feedback given is absolutely invaluable in our growth.

Jenni Catron (18:51.906)
Let me give you quickly four key aspects of quality feedback. When you think about a time that someone gave you some challenging feedback, what caused you to receive their input? Right? Like if you think about it, there's some things happening that help you receive feedback better. To give and receive feedback well, four aspects are essential. The first is relationship. Even though it was hard to hear, maybe some constructive or difficult feedback,

you likely received it because the person who gave you the feedback was someone you had relationship with, right? That you had a relationship. That person was invested in your life. You knew that they wanted the best for you. So relationship matters when you're considering your team or other significant people in your life that you want to give feedback to. Are you building relationship equity that gives you the influence to be able to give that feedback?

Second thing, it was both positive and constructive. I bet you can count multiple times that that person also gave you positive feedback. So the best feedback in our life is coming from people who are both giving us positive and constructive feedback. If you're just getting positive feedback from people, they're just blowing smoke. They're just trying to win you over. If you're just getting constructive or critical feedback,

Either that person lacks some emotional intelligence to understand they need to also give you positive feedback and or they just are kind of being a little hard on you. So the best feedback is both positive and constructive. Their investment in providing positive feedback gives them credibility to also deliver constructive feedback. And so I want you to think about this when you're thinking of giving feedback to another team member, one of one of your staff that you are giving both positive

and constructive on a regular basis. And you're not saying, I'm not talking about the sandwich thing where you give a positive and constructive and then a positive in the same breath. I want you to be giving positive feedback consistently so that when you need to give the constructive feedback, you've made the deposits, right? You have, again, the relationship where you can do that. Number three, number three, consistent.

Jenni Catron (21:12.504)
Their feedback was also consistent. So if you think about that person who you received feedback from, well, it was consistent. They didn't just swoop in during the good times or the bad. They are consistently engaged in your work and their feedback demonstrates an ongoing commitment to you. Again, it goes back to the care for you, right? Like they are consistently involved. are consistently giving feedback. Leaders who provide feedback well, consistently use their one -on -one meetings.

performance reviews, and other organizational systems to provide a consistent and predictable rhythm for giving feedback. They're not just waiting until their back is against the wall and they absolutely have to give you feedback, right? Like they are looking for opportunities to constantly be investing in you. And then number four, it's thoughtful. They employed emotional intelligence in how and when they shared the feedback. They were conscious of the setting

and the timing to ensure they were giving you feedback in a way that allowed for it to be best received. So good feedback is well -timed. You are using emotional intelligence to kind of gauge, this a good time to give this feedback? Is this the most helpful time to give this feedback? You're thinking about how do I give this in a way that is thoughtful about the experience, you know, the circumstances, the dynamics that that person may be is,

going through and giving feedback at a time that it can be best received. So I've given you a lot to think about today, but this idea of accountability and feedback, so critical to helping us create healthy cultures and avoid avoid avoidance cultures, right? Like we don't want cultures of avoidance where accountability and feedback are absent. So how are you doing leaders?

in these areas. Like as I talked through the accountability and the feedback, where do you need to focus? Where are some places where you could improve? How is your team doing on accountability and feedback? Right? Like how, as a team, how do you guys do in this area? Are you good at just holding one another accountable, being clear on who's doing what by when? Do you have healthy rhythms for feedback with each other? Do you have healthy peer to peer accountability?

Jenni Catron (23:36.152)
Do team members give and receive feedback well? And based upon what I shared today, what could you do to increase these skills for your team? Again, this might be a great episode to listen together as a team or maybe share with one other person, maybe another person on your team that you're like, gosh, I know we need to work on these things, but I'm not sure where to start. So share it with one other person who maybe is feeling the same dynamics and tensions.

So you guys can look at it together and determine how could we help increase the accountability and the feedback in our culture. And of course, if you'd like some coaching to help support you through your avoidance culture, our 4Sight team of certified LeadCulture coaches would love to help you. So you just need to drop us an email at podcast@get4sight.com, podcast@get4sight.com, G -E -T, the number four.

S -I -G -H -T, and you can schedule a free 30 minute coaching call. We would love to help you look at that avoidance culture that maybe you're feeling and help give you a few suggestions for how you can increase accountability and feedback. All right, friends, I hope this got you thinking today. I hope it helped just give you a little more insight on some of the simple daily behaviors that impact your culture.

So if you enjoyed this episode, do share it with somebody else on your team, somebody you were thinking about as you listened to me this afternoon or this morning or wherever you might be. As you listened to this episode, who'd came to mind that you're like, gosh, I think they would benefit from this. Share it with them. I would love that. And then if we can support you in any way, be sure you're connected with us on social media at Get 4Sight on all the socials. I'm at Jenni Catron on all the social channels as well.

And then make sure that you are signed up for our Insights newsletter. This is my weekly newsletter. I talk all things leadership and culture. I share new ideas or new resources. That's the first place I share them. And you can sign up by going to our website, www.get4sight.com, G -E -T, the number four, S -I -G -H -T .com. There's a little box that'll pop up that says, sign me up for the weekly Insights newsletter. Just pop your email in there and we'll stay in touch that way.

Jenni Catron (26:01.73)
Friends, thank you for listening today. Thank you for leading well, and I will see you next week.