In this episode of The Property Mindset Podcast, join host Phil Gadd from First Tracks Real Estate Group as he sits down with mortgage expert Stephanie Roughead to debunk two major misconceptions in today's real estate market. Discover how you can buy investment properties with less than 20% down and learn why selling your current home before buying a new one might not be necessary. Stephanie provides actionable insights and strategies to navigate the real estate market effectively, making this episode a must-listen for both aspiring investors and seasoned professionals.
Tune in to get expert advice and elevate your real estate game!
Show Sponsor: First Tracks Real Estate Group - eXp Luxury
In this episode of The Property Mindset Podcast, join host Phil Gadd from First Tracks Real Estate Group as he sits down with mortgage expert Stephanie Roughead to debunk two major misconceptions in today's real estate market. Discover how you can buy investment properties with less than 20% down and learn why selling your current home before buying a new one might not be necessary. Stephanie provides actionable insights and strategies to navigate the real estate market effectively, making this episode a must-listen for both aspiring investors and seasoned professionals.
Tune in to get expert advice and elevate your real estate game!
Show Sponsor: First Tracks Real Estate Group - eXp Luxury
Welcome to the property mindset podcast. Where we dive deep into the journeys of successful individuals in the real estate industry. Our guests share personal experiences and valuable insights. Providing practical tips and tools for your own real estate journey. Whether you're an inspiring investor. A seasoned professional, or simply someone who loves real estate. This podcast is for you. So join us on an engaging and informative conversation with some of the brightest minds in the real estate industry.
phil-gadd_1_06-17-2024_100939:So welcome back to the property mindset podcast with me, Phil Gadd from First Trax Real Estate Group. Today, super excited. I am joined by Stephanie Roughead, who is a mortgage professional here in Fernie and the surrounding areas. And today we're going to discuss just how Two big misconceptions that buyers currently have in this market. So welcome Stephanie.
stephanie-_1_06-17-2024_100940:Awesome, Phil. Thanks for having me. It's great to be here.
phil-gadd_1_06-17-2024_100939:Awesome. No, I'm excited about this one because there are a couple of big kind of misconceptions currently. I think, a lot of buyers have yeah,
stephanie-_1_06-17-2024_100940:Phil. I think that's so true right now. I'm sure you're seeing it too, right? We've got of focus and a lot of noise in the media, frankly, right? Around rates. Everyone is rates, and the challenge with that is of course, rates are important. I'm not going to say, of course, as a mortgage professional rates are important. But it's really important for buyers to focus on what they can control, right? And rates, unfortunately, is not something that we have the ability to control. And it's important that we don't let these things sideline, like ultimately what our goals are, time is money, especially when it comes to real estate and, look at the people that bought in the eighties when interest rates were 20%. Yes, of course, housing prices were lower, but, I'm sure you can attest to just obviously the increase in property values over the last 1, 3, 5 years, you know, so while people consider, continue to sit and wait it's missed opportunity and I think there is for sure a market out there of people that, are concerned with rates, but ultimately the bigger things are just that they're unsure. There's some of these unknowns, these things they're not sure about, or things that they've heard or read or someone has told them that aren't true. And so the two big misconceptions that I run into quite regularly are clients, first of all, thinking, If they're interested in getting into the market, maybe they already own a home, likely they do, and they want to buy an investment property. The rental market is hot. You and I both know that. They want to get that. They want to get that investment property, but they think they need 20 percent down, right? I don't have the cash, Phil, I want to, I really want to get a rental. I know so many people that need to rent. I don't have 20 percent down. Big misconception, we're going to dive into that a little bit more. The second one is people thinking that they must sell their current home before purchasing a new home. So whether that is they're looking to upgrade maybe, relocate, relocate slightly, within the Valley or whatever market that they're in. And they feel like I have to sell my home first. And we'll talk a little bit about the implications, around that. But yeah, is it fair to say do you hear people like saying those? I'm just curious Phil, like in your experience.
phil-gadd_1_06-17-2024_100939:it's really when professionals like myself and yourself can bring value to people and just change, their mindset. It's really rewarding to see because you do people come to us with these things and you're like no, you just need to speak to the right people because we can help you.
stephanie-_1_06-17-2024_100940:Yeah, absolutely. For sure. And of course, like anything, as we're going to like, look at this I prepared, some slides and stuff to really help bring some visuals because some of the topics maybe we're going a little deep, but I think it's important, right? I think it's important for buyers or anybody to understand behind the scenes, what's your lender and your mortgage professional is working with, like how they're actually determining why does one person say that I can qualify and I can do this and why is somebody else saying I can't right? And we're going to look at some screens. And of course, it's always important. Not everybody's situation is the same, right? It's tough to address the masses. Obviously, your own situation is unique to you. But the first most important before we even jump in is never assume the only way to No, for sure is, of course, to call Phil to call myself to call whoever your trusted professional is and ask the questions, right? So really first and foremost, if we. Start and dive in right away. When we're looking at both of these scenarios of whether you're wanting to purchase a revenue property or you are wanting to or feel like you need to sell your home before you can purchase another one, looking at both of those scenarios, there's a really important tool that comes into play that your lender or your mortgage professional will use. And that's called a rental worksheet or a rental calculation. Now, this is probably not something the average person is going to have come across and you can see on the screen here, I've just shown a small sampling of some lenders rental worksheets. Now, what a rental worksheet is it's a lender's preferred calculation. For income versus expenses on a revenue property. So now again, these different dramatically between lenders. I'm showing 4, 5 right now as a mortgage professional. I work with 25 plus different lenders. So big banks, the credit unions something known as monoline lenders, and they all have their own worksheet and their own calculation. So the output of these worksheets is added to the application. That's ultimately why this tool is used, because the data from the tool is added to the application. How it actually works is that it takes into account the rent being generated by the property. Now, this could be actual rent, as in, it's already an existing revenue property with a tenant that is paying rent, or it could be potential rent. Maybe this is a property that has yet to become a rental. And, That is input into the tool and the expenses related to the property. So these are things like your mortgage payment, condo fees, utilities, maintenance, taxes, et cetera. So then the tool itself will produce either a shortfall which is added to the application. So a negative number that's added to the application or potentially it'll produce a surplus which in some lenders cases we can add to the application as income, which is. Awesome. But side note, that is not something that we can do in every case. Not every lender allows that. So that can be a big difference maker right there. So ultimately these worksheets are going to be used anytime a borrower is looking to convert their existing owner occupied home into a rental. Or if you were looking to purchase a non subject property, or sorry, I didn't if you're looking to purchase a rental or you own any other non subject rentals, meaning the property you're looking to purchase, you have other ones, other rentals. So those are when these worksheets are going to come into play. So they're pretty important for those reasons that, that we mentioned. Um, and I, again it's a little bit of, Maybe you don't need to know this as the average person, but I think it is super important because when we're going to look at a scenario where you can actually see the difference of working with a different lender and how their worksheet can impact your situation. Again, why are they so important? Using a rental worksheet with your lender with your mortgage professional can help you do a multitude of things. And we're going to go tie it back to those misconceptions. Do I need to sell my home before I buy another property? Perhaps not. The rental worksheet and this strategy can help you buy immediately and, obviously in today's market, if you can purchase a home without having a sales clause that gives you the upper hand, Phil, as you can attest to, right? When you don't have to write that clause for the sale of their existing home, um, and then if you still want to sell down the road, you can do so at your leisure. It also helps you to more quickly build your wealth in real estate. So thinking of that other misconception, I need 20 percent down. How long is it going to take you to save 100, depending on the value of the purchase of the home to be able to buy that property? So if you can now get that rental property a lot sooner, you can start getting that revenue stream from your tenants, right? And building that wealth through real estate, you can do it a lot quicker. And we know that today's market is hot. So if this is one way that you can get into it faster, and then ultimately, still, at the end of the day, like we said, if you still want to sell your home. and you don't have any desire to be a landlord or own an investment property, using this strategy in your mortgage underwriting with your professional, with your lender, it can still allow you to sell at your own pace. And ultimately, hopefully for top dollar, right? If you're not in a rush, if you're not trying to get a quick sale so that you can close on the new home that you're interested in a lot less stress for you and again, a lot more potential there. So So, you know, a lender, such as myself, a broker, such as myself, we can approve a client for financing, using the rental offsets, using these calculations, um, to help you satisfy your condition of financing. And then you still potentially can sell your home prior to taking possession of the new property, if it works out that way, but it's a backup so that you can remove that condition and don't have to make that requirement in your offer.
phil-gadd_1_06-17-2024_100939:That's what I love to say to people, especially when I'm You know, they say, when we have that conversation and I ask the question, what, how, what are you doing about the financing? Have you thought about the monthly payments, what's going on there? More often than not, a lot of people say, Oh no, I haven't. And that's great. Cause then I can say IQ, you should go and speak to someone like Stephanie, but. I think a lot of people just simply wouldn't even know this was an option and to have it as an option, I just, it's awesome.
stephanie-_1_06-17-2024_100940:Like it, and when you see the impact of it, so if no, so if nobody, there's no professional in your life that is showing you these different options there's so much missed opportunity. So
phil-gadd_1_06-17-2024_100939:Absolutely. Strategies like this are just phenomenal because they just like. Like you say, they just open up the opportunity.
stephanie-_1_06-17-2024_100940:All right, so let's take a look at a typical client scenario. So let's talk about John and Jane Doe as borrowers. So John is an employee of tech, 115, 000 a year for income. Jane works for Interior Health. She makes 60, 000 a year. Checking in savings a little under 20, 000, they've got some other RSPs and other investments closer to that 120, 000 mark, they own a couple of vehicles as well, totaling 60, 000 and their current home has been assessed and if they were to sell, they're assuming that 600, 000 purchase price or value. Um, for liabilities, they've got a credit card with a bank with 5, 500 owing on it. They've got a small unsecured line of credit with 14, 000. The one loan on the Tundra still exists with 22, 000 owing, and their current home does have a mortgage with 350, 000 owing. So that's a payment for them of 1, 860 per month. They've got a great interest rate still of 3. 29 percent and two years remaining. So after doing some shopping, watching the market John and Jane have found their dream home place that they love, that they're looking to upgrade, and they've got an accepted offer for 750, 000. Currently, the way that the deal stands is they do. They're thinking that they have to sell their home before they can purchase this new property. They've written the offer has been written that way saying that there is this condition, but John and Jane are concerned as is the realtor, they know that the market is hot and they're worried about that clause coming into effect that ultimately could have them losing the offer if their home hasn't sold. Good news is for John and Jane, they're working with an awesome mortgage lender who has lots of options for them.
phil-gadd_1_06-17-2024_100939:Typical. Yeah.
stephanie-_1_06-17-2024_100940:typical. Okay. Yep. Um, So the first option, of course, is the one that they are assuming that they have to go with. Sell their current home buy the new home, and they'll have proceeds from the sale of about 150, 000 down. When your lender or your mortgage professional is looking at your file, they're working what's known with, in what's known as affordability ratios or debt servicing ratios. And most lenders require these ratios to be a maximum of 39 percent and 44%. We won't get into all the details today about what's included in there, but just from a standpoint of this is what we are, these are the numbers that your lender, your mortgage Professional are working within. So based on the affordability ratios of scenario 1 32 and 39%, they're good. This is doable. John and Jane would qualify to sell their current home, buy the new home with$150,000 down. Their down payment source. Of course, in the scenario is gonna be the proceeds from the sale of their home. We know that and yeah, like we said, it works, but again, this requires them to have. The sale of their home complete before they take possession of the new place. And furthermore, it would require them to have an accepted unconditional offer on the sale of their current home before they could remove conditions on this purchase. So it does work, but there's a lot of hoops to jump through, right? So let's jump over. We'll look at the second scenario. So this is keep both homes. And it's funny when you see, maybe see this bill because it's surprising actually how many maybe inexperienced, lenders, bankers, whatever that is will suggest this as an option to clients and say you can't afford to keep both. So this is keeping the both home, keeping both properties. Essentially purchasing the new one without selling their other one. Some instances, yes, it does work depending on the client scenario. But this is their like way of thinking outside the box. And in John and Jane's case, as we can see, it doesn't it doesn't work, right? It doesn't work because their affordability ratios for them are 50 and 58. So outside the maximum 39 and 44. Their down payment in this case, though, although they wouldn't be selling the home, and this is really important to note, is that they still only ever need to do a minimum down payment on a new property. And this is not a misconception that we were going to talk about, but it's also worth mentioning because a lot of people still think they have to have 20 percent down payment. When they're purchasing a secondary or a next residence, they think that they only need the minimum if it's their first time homebuyers, and that is absolutely not true. So if you are going to reside in the property or you are going to be purchasing it as a vacation property for yourself, or even a home for your children to live in, you only need the minimum down payment. And the down payment source in this scenario can be obviously any of their savings. It can be a gift from immediate family. It can be a refinance on the existing home. So we know that there's equity in that home. Your lender could potentially refinance it to get the down payment for the new place. Or even a vehicle refinance. A lot of people don't think of this one, but if you've been really diligent about paying your vehicle down and now you have a free and clear vehicle, lots of opportunity to refinance that vehicle to get a chunk of cash to be able to use as a down payment. But ultimately at the end of the day, no. Scenario two would not work for John and Jane because they cannot afford to keep both houses as residences of themselves. So the last scenario is to rent your current home, buy the new home. With the minimum down payment, so the affordability ratios on this one, we're going to have to dive a little deeper and take a look at some rental worksheets to know if this works or not. The down payment sources still apply to the same 1 is the 2nd scenario. They're not selling their home. So they don't have the proceeds from the sale, but do they have savings? Can they get the gift from their immediate family? Do you have the ability to, take the equity out doing an equity takeout, or is there a vehicle refinance? So there's still tons of potential and tons of options here for John and Jane looking at this third scenario. Okay, you with me still Phil? Good.
phil-gadd_1_06-17-2024_100939:Yeah.
stephanie-_1_06-17-2024_100940:I know it's a lot of numbers, right? And this is where I think I hope you know your listeners I know it's a podcast will perhaps need to tune in and view because it helps if you can see some of this but
phil-gadd_1_06-17-2024_100939:So yeah, Stephanie, that's amazing. So if you are listening to this podcast I'd highly recommend you hop over to our YouTube channel where you can see all this actually visually see all these worksheets.
stephanie-_1_06-17-2024_100940:Perfect. Yeah. Thanks Phil. Thanks for that because definitely nice when you've got the visual in front of you to help put this all together So we're looking at that third option now of keeping the existing your existing home Turning it into a rental. So again, getting back to that misconception that people think they need 20 percent down payment before purchasing a rental. No, one of the best ways around that is keeping your existing home as a rental and purchasing a new home with the minimum down payment. And it's often not thought about, and this is one of the best ways to be able to do it. So this option allows you to do that get into having a rental property sooner. It also can be used these rental worksheets like we talked about before to not be required to sell your home before buying a new home. So we're diving in taking a look at some different lender options. We're going to look at three just for comparison to give you a sense of how this works between different banks. And, obviously a shameless plug for myself, but when you're working with a broker and you have. Someone who has exposure to 25 plus different lenders, and a good broker will explore all these lenders for you, right on your behalf and work their policies to see what makes the most sense for you. So if we look at this first lender, the potential rent on John and Jane's home, we're going to say is 2, 800 per month. Every lender also requires this rent to be verified in different manners because they haven't currently had their home as a rental. They have this lender. Lender one has two options. They can get a market rents assessment. And what this is this is a report done by an appraiser where they determine how much rent this property would earn based on other similar properties in the market that are currently being used as rentals. So this lender will allow a market rents report or lease agreement. So if John and Jane have somebody lined up who wants to rent their home, which is not uncommon, they can have that lease agreement signed and ready to go. And this lender will use that. So they've got both options to verify the rent, and if we look at the actual inputs, this lender is taking into 100 percent of the gross rents they're subtracting that mortgage payment, like we talked about previously, about what John and Jane currently owe on their home, subtracting the mortgage, or sorry, the property taxes, and then other expenses like heat, maintenance, And these again, they differ between lenders and after those trends, all those have been factored in, it's still resulting in a surplus of 310. So we get to add, LenderOne allows us to add that surplus, that 310 into, John and Jane's application. We get to take out all the expenses related to their current home and actually add money to their application. And do they approve? Yes, they do. Their ratios are 37 and 43 using this rental worksheet with this lender. They could keep their home as a rental and they could purchase their new home provided again that they've got the requirements for the minimum down payment. So pretty cool. So
phil-gadd_1_06-17-2024_100939:And I've got a quick question actually which is really cool actually. So the last line on that sheet, the DCR, is that the debt service ratio? Is that what that stands for?
stephanie-_1_06-17-2024_100940:DCR is debt coverage ratio. So a little bit different. Yeah. Yeah.
phil-gadd_1_06-17-2024_100939:I'm on the understanding it's very similar to when I'm looking at multifamily properties, but if that is so that's the ratio that the banks look at to see if it's going to be worth fine. Is that correct?
stephanie-_1_06-17-2024_100940:Yeah. The DCR does come into play again. It's lender specific. Some have requirements. They need the DCR to be higher than like 1%. Others aren't as picky on it, but it's basically exactly that. Like how much equity is in this property? Like how high is the mortgage relative to the value of the home? Things like
phil-gadd_1_06-17-2024_100939:Yeah. So is it a similar calculation? Cause I think so if I'm looking at multifamily, you take the NOI, the net operating expense, and then divide it by the monthly mortgage payment to give you that ratio. And if it's what I'm, what I really like, if it's between 1. 2. And above banks like it, but if it's anything less, then they're a little bit, they want to obviously look into it more potentially.
stephanie-_1_06-17-2024_100940:Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Very exactly the same. Yeah, you got it.
phil-gadd_1_06-17-2024_100939:Yeah, cool. Awesome.
stephanie-_1_06-17-2024_100940:In comparison, let's just, same scenario, exact same scenario for John and Jane, but we're going to look at a different lender. Rent is still the same, 2, 800. This is a different lender. Actually, I will obviously not going to tell you guys who the lenders are, but I will say this is a big bank. This is a big bank. And their potential rent here is still the same 2, 800. The rent needs to be verified by, again, same before, they'll take a market rent or a lease agreement. So we've got the flexibility there. But if you look at their worksheet, and I know it's hard for our listeners, but their worksheet, what it actually does, is it takes the rent, the 2, 800 a month, and automatically chops it in half. It will only allow us to, To use these, this lender will only allow you to use 50 percent of the rent that this property is bringing in. Then from there subtracts the mortgage payment. So it won't include some of the other expenses that we talked about. It's just the mortgage payment, but then you're still having to keep the property taxes in the application. So this is the difference, although everything is the same, this lender results in a shortfall of 460 per month. So there's a negative because of the way of this rental worksheet. And we have to add that shortfall of 460 a month to the application. And because of that, because we've had to do that, it does not allow John and Jane to approve. Their ratios are 37 and 47 percent. So with Lender 2, unless there was some extenuating circumstance to get an exception, it would be a decline. Even though everything else is the same as like we saw with Lender 1. So Yeah. interesting comparison.
phil-gadd_1_06-17-2024_100939:Yeah, definitely. I'm assuming the biggest one there is how they account for the rent. They immediately just chopping it in half. Which obviously, isn't good for the people trying to apply, but yeah. Okay, cool. It's interesting. Yeah.
stephanie-_1_06-17-2024_100940:Yeah, and it is. It's highly aggressive. It's ultra conservative. I mean, I don't know many people like this lender. It can work well if you don't have a mortgage. If the property happens to be free and clear, this lender could be a good choice. But for anybody that has a mortgage against the property, yeah, it makes it super challenging for it to debt service accordingly. And I don't know how many people would be Renting knowing that they only are, getting to take in 50 percent of the actual rent because their expenses are that great. So it is very conservative, but It is their rule. Yeah.
phil-gadd_1_06-17-2024_100939:yeah I'm would I suppose the question I'm, I might have as a buyer someone's talking to me and Google. Um, a question I have maybe as a buyer, so would they say, for example, if you qualified for both, let's say in an example, are we going to get better rates with certain lenders or did you see what I mean? Is if, even if like we're trying a bit of an out of the box situation here, are the ones that are going to get approved, are they going to be worse rates or better rates?
stephanie-_1_06-17-2024_100940:You know what? Great question, Phil. The, all the lenders that were like that I'm looking at and using in these examples today are all a lenders. So they're all like, They're not beer alternative lenders. So I'm really trying to keep apples to apples. So they would, all three of these lenders would have very similar, like top shelf rate. And it's a good point. It's worth mentioning. Yes. Some of these, strategies can be very unique and then you are looking at a beer and alternative lender and maybe there is a fee or higher rates to have them. But that was all the more reason why this is so impactful that this is essentially big banks, a rated lenders, and just the difference between them. So truly it's just. Yeah. Yeah. Your rate could be the exact same between all three and you would qualify with one and perhaps not the others.
phil-gadd_1_06-17-2024_100939:Awesome. Great.
stephanie-_1_06-17-2024_100940:so the last one again, just for comparison sake is we've got a third lender here and same situation. We're still looking at the same amount of rent, but interestingly for this lender, the rent needs to be verified by a lease agreement only. So that means they will not accept a market rents assessment. So you basically have to have. Somebody lined up to rent their place. And yeah, so this can sometimes be a negative too, because if you don't have that market rent isn't available. It's also understanding all of the things, which boxes can we check, which ones can we not. This lender uses some predetermined expenses, so things like insurance, maintenance, repairs, and utilities just based on their own data. Whether that's what. You think it would cost or not, that's what they're expecting you to use. So it's gross rents minus like, so your vacancy, your insurance, maintenance and repairs, your taxes and your utilities. And then it still results in a surplus though, not quite as big as our lender number one, but it results in a surplus of 183 per month. And the good news with this lender is that we can add that surplus into the application. So that can be added as extra income and yes, they approve, Don and Jane approve with lender 3 too. It's right on the button 37 and 44, but it does work here as well, provided that they have that lease agreement ability to generate that lease agreement. So really, Between all three lenders, as we've seen, these three options, and this is again, if we've got two options and depending on the client situation, we could look at other aspects of what those lenders are offering. Then we can drill down more on rates prepayment privileges, all the other things that your mortgage professional should be negotiating on your behalf, right? Because it's not just about the rate getting you the approval, but also the best of all those other aspects of the mortgage too.
phil-gadd_1_06-17-2024_100939:Yeah, cool. And this would work whether you wanted to maybe move into the new property or Rent the new property out and stay in it. Is it a similar thing You could mix and match whatever like worked in this scenario.
stephanie-_1_06-17-2024_100940:yeah, absolutely. And this is exactly. So whether this is someone purchasing or has a rental property. And again, I even think about clients that are really eagerly looking to really build their portfolio in revenue properties, if you've already got one or two rentals. How are they debt servicing? Is this going to be the difference between you getting that third rental? Because these are the worksheets that they're looking at for each of your properties. And so you're, yeah, to your point, Phil, whether it's just turning your existing primary into a rental or purchasing a new rental and you have other rentals. Absolutely. This all comes into play in the same rules would follow.
phil-gadd_1_06-17-2024_100939:Okay, cool. So ultimately, What i'm understanding is this is great. This is a great option, but essentially Properties need to essentially be out of cash flow And have a decent debt coverage ratio to be in the ballpark for qualifying for this type of strategy. Yeah.
stephanie-_1_06-17-2024_100940:Absolutely. Right. We want to look at the other aspects of it. If the mortgage for some reason is huge and in John and Jane scenario here that we looked at, they've got a great rate. They've got 3%, for another 2 years. That could be a big driver for them. For a borrower, if your current home has a really great interest rate on it, and you think, wow, you know what, for a couple of years, while my payment and rate are so low, and that maybe doesn't become the case when interest rates become higher. And same thing when you're purchasing a new property and getting today's rates, right? The numbers may look a little bit different, but. yeah, For sure. So yeah, so there's, just, the difference obviously between the lenders, because ultimately at the end of the day it's the key takeaways, to wrap it up, all said and done. Is, working with someone with many options, I think I hope, in today's, demonstration and what we talked about is seeing that if the client of John and Jane had only been working with lender to who is a big bank, they may be telling this is impossible. So John and Jane would be saying we've got to sell the house. Even though they really were hoping to, keep their existing as a revenue or didn't want to. You want to be able to have those different options at your fingertips. So that when you get the question, we need to sell our house first. You can challenge that and you can know do you, is that really the case? Is somebody taking the time? To dive deep on this and explore all of those scenarios and there's almost always a way I always like to put that out there. Nothing is 100%. Of course, everyone's scenario is different. But if somebody is telling you, it can't be done, get a second opinion, right? Especially if you're working with just. A one lender individual, right? Provider, whether that's your bank, whether that's your credit union, if it's just one institution, right? For sure there's other options and just understanding the potential of building wealth in real estate. Phil obviously does a great job of sharing. I know you do Phil on here, but so much potential. Canada has a housing shortage. There is. Hundreds and hundreds of thousands, millions of people that need to continue to rent. And if you're in a position to be able to do that and the numbers make sense you want everything possible lined up for you to be able to make that happen.
phil-gadd_1_06-17-2024_100939:and that's it. I think the number two is I'm a big believer in, um, it's when you want something that much, just don't accept no. Because there is always a way. I'm massive believer in that. Yeah if you can't find the answer with someone and keep asking the question until someone gives you the answer that you want to hear. Because it always is possible. Everything is possible.
stephanie-_1_06-17-2024_100940:Love it. I totally agree.
phil-gadd_1_06-17-2024_100939:Yeah, cool. Stephanie, that's been absolutely awesome. Very fascinating. Now Stephanie's contact information will be below wherever you're listening to but Stephanie, what's the best way people can get hold of you if they want to talk more about mortgages,
stephanie-_1_06-17-2024_100940:Yeah, absolutely. All methods work. So text, email, phone as Phil said, it'll be below. I'm on social media too, Instagram and Facebook. So look me up on there. Steph, our mortgage. Pro. Yeah, and again, I try to make myself really available to my clients, obviously for these conversations and just knowing that no question, no inquiry is ever silly or whatnot, right? You don't know what you don't know, like we talked about before, right? Never, yeah, never be afraid to reach out. Always happy to help.
phil-gadd_1_06-17-2024_100939:that's amazing. Once again, thanks very much for all of this Amazing information today, Stephanie. And yeah, thanks very much.
stephanie-_1_06-17-2024_100940:Yeah, you bet Phil. Thanks.
phil-gadd_1_06-17-2024_100939:Okay. Bye. Cool. All right. Brilliant. That was great. I'm going to