Season 2 Episode 1 Gregg Behr, When You Wonder You're Learning

PODCAST EPISODE Season 2 Episode 1

Gregg Behr

Executive Director, The Grable Foundation
Chair, Remake Learning
Co-Author, When You Wonder, You're Learning

Quote of the Podcast – 

"Everyone longs to be loved. And the greatest thing we can do is to let people know that they are loved and capable of loving.” Fred Rogers

Introduction of Guest BIO – 

Gregg Behr, executive director of The Grable Foundation, is a father and children’s advocate whose work is inspired by the legacy of his hero, Fred Rogers. For more than a decade, he has helped to lead Remake Learning—a network of educators, scientists, artists, and makers he founded in 2007—to international renown. Formed in Rogers’ real-life neighborhood of Pittsburgh, Remake Learning has turned heads everywhere from Forbes to the World Economic Forum for its efforts to ignite children’s curiosity, encourage creativity, and foster justice and belonging in schools, libraries, museums, and more.

In 2016, President Obama recognized Gregg as a Champion of Change for his efforts to advance making and learning; in 2015, he was recognized as one of America’s Top 30 Technologists, Transformers, and Trailblazers by the Center for Digital Education; and in 2014, Gregg accepted the Tribeca Disruptive Innovation Award on behalf of Remake Learning and Kidsburgh.org. Recognized for his deep and determined commitment to his hometown, Allegheny County once declared “Gregg Behr Day” in celebration of his advocacy for kids, their educators, and their families. He is Co-Author of the book When You Wonder, You're Learning.

Interview

Agents of Change: Leaders/Innovators

•  30,000 Ft. View – Why so we, as a society invest in education?
• What drew you to education?
• What do you love about what you do?
• Tell us about The Grable Foundation
• Tell us about Remake Education

·       Tell us about your book:  When You Wonder, You're Learning

• Tell us a story or favorite memory about your work in education?
• What are the biggest challenges to you?
• What would you like decision makers to know?

Podcast/book shoutouts

• Book – When You Wonder, You’re Learning: Mister Rogers’ Enduring Lessons for Raising Creative, Curious, Caring Kids 

• Remake Learning 

• Remake Learning Days 

• Podcast – Remaking Tomorrow

Education Perspectives is edited by Shashank P athttps://www.fiverr.com/saiinovation?source=inbox

Intro and Outro by Dynamix Productions

Transcript

Liza Holland [00:00:02]:
Welcome to education perspectives. I am your host, Liza Holland. This is a podcast that explores the role of education in our society from a variety of lenses. Education needs to evolve to meet the needs of today and the future. Solving such huge issues requires understanding. Join me as we begin to explore the many perspectives of education. Greg Behr is the executive director of the Grable Foundation. He is a father and children's advocate whose work is inspired by the legacy of his hero, Fred Rogers.

Liza Holland [00:00:39]:
For more than a decade, he has helped To lead Remake Learning, a network of educators, scientists, artists, and makers that he founded in 2007 to international renown. Formed in Rogers' real life neighborhood of Pittsburgh, Remake Learning has turned heads everywhere from Forbes to the World Economic Forum for its efforts to ignite children's curiosity, encourage creativity, and foster justice and belonging in schools, libraries, museums, and more. In 2016, president Obama recognized Greg as a champion of change for his efforts to advance making and learning. In 2015, he was recognized as one of America's top 30 technologists, transformers, and trailblazers by the Center For Digital Education. And in 2014, Greg accepted the Tribeca Disruptive Innovation Award on behalf of Remake Learning and Kidsburg .org. Recognized for his deep and determined commitment to his hometown, Allegheny County once declared Greg Bear Day ex in celebration for his advocacy for kids, their educators, and their families. He is coauthor of the book, When You Wonder You're Learning. Alright.

Liza Holland [00:01:53]:
Greg Behr, welcome to education perspectives.

Greg Behr [00:01:57]:
It's an honor, Liza, to be here. Thank you.

Liza Holland [00:01:59]:
Very much appreciate your time and will kick you off with the same question that I ask every guest. In a 30,000 foot view, why do you think that we as a society invest in education.

Greg Behr [00:02:12]:
It's hard for me to imagine a more important topic. Right? If we want Vibrant communities. If we want vibrant democracies, if we want shall discover his, her, their potential, then the thing in which we as a public need to invest the most is education and learning. And to be sure, that's focused on our young people. But if we ever get to a better place and can really focus on lifelong learning, I would love to see that as a goal for public education, public learning in America and beyond. I just can't imagine a more important thing to talk about in which to invest to figure out how we ever do it better and do it right by the learners themselves.

Liza Holland [00:02:59]:
Well, I tell you with the pace of change that we are facing today, I think we all have to be lifelong learners. And so some of us may have to retrofit how we learned, and hopefully, we can bring that to our students today.

Greg Behr [00:03:13]:
Well, isn't that true? I mean, we talk about young people all the time and how we develop the learning experiences that they want, need, and serve in and out of school precisely because of the social and technological changes and undulations in their lives. But those undulations are the same things in my life and your life too. And how are we navigating them? What does it mean to be human and humane in these ever-changing, beautiful, difficult, messy, horrible, wonderful times? Like, that's something we all need to discover and rediscover consistently.

Liza Holland [00:03:49]:
Absolutely. I was at a workforce development event, and one of the CEOs of a big business there in the northeast said I need people who can learn, unlearn, and relearn. That's what I need for my employees. And I thought, gosh, is that not lifelong learning?

Greg Behr [00:04:08]:
Well and when you read those reports from whether it's CEOs, you know, our biggest companies or scientists and learning scientists or educators themselves, What is the thing that we want the most? Curiosity. Right? And it speaks to that sense of potential and wonder and learning and unlearning and relearning and learning Yes.

Liza Holland [00:04:29]:
Absolutely. So tell us a little bit about your education journey. What drew you to education?

Greg Behr [00:04:35]:
I think probably like a lot of teachers and educators themselves, although I acknowledge I'm not in the classroom. I'm at the thirty thousand foot level of the education space. One, it's a product of your own experiences. And so for me, it's a product of my own experiences. I feel really lucky and privileged when I think about from my early learning experiences, and I was the kid who failed kindergarten, so I had to go twice. Wasn't and it wasn't because of those amazing teachers. You know, I was probably the boy who was just a little too young and so needed to, fingerpaint and do things twice. But I think back to those teachers whose name I could call out, you know, missus Donohue and missus Tomasello and missus Spisnagel and missus Miss Duppelby and mister Seif, I hope your listeners are thinking of their own teachers in their lives.

Greg Behr [00:05:22]:
I really had deeply caring adults Who loved what they were doing, loved it right in front of me and the and my classmates, and really created vibrant learning experiences. I attended public schools, you know, k to 12, and I just feel incredibly lucky about the learning experience that I had. And that was also true at home. Again, incredibly lucky and privileged with my childhood and the support that my parents provided And how they supported my interests, my passions, same for my brother. How lucky is that? And it's that, You know, it shouldn't be something that about which we're just lucky. Right? You know, the reason I got into education is we should be as a public society, deliberate dnd intentional about creating wonderful and wondrous learning experiences for our young people, both in school And in all of those out-of-school places too, those museums and libraries and early learning centers and after school programs and online and all the places where kids might learn. And to me, it's it's just so fundamental because if we want people, if we want our citizens to be able to be those lifelong learners that we were describing, if we want them to be able to navigate ever changing economic conditions, If we want them to be vibrant and engaged and active citizens, then education is the thing in which we have to get involved. And so personally and professionally, I just was drawn to it in the sense of how do we do that work and do it ever better, ever mindful about how great learning happens and be really mindful about improving upon an incredible base that was laid for us when we were younger.

Liza Holland [00:07:07]:
What a great answer. So now that you are where you are, and it is a a little bit more of a 30,000 foot view, which we'll get into here shortly, what do you love about what you do?

Greg Behr [00:07:18]:
The people. I work in education philanthropy, which is why I reference being at 30,000 feet. And, Liza, what I love about the work that I get to do is bearing witness every single day to amazing educators in classrooms, in administrative offices and school districts, and also those librarians and museum exhibit designers and youth workers and artists and technologists and others who are always saying like, how might we? How might we create, again, wonderful and wondrous learning experiences to forget. So 1, I get to bear witness to that. 2, because of the generosity of the Grable Foundation at which I work, Our job is to give away money. And so what an amazing wow. What like an amazing crazy thing to be able to support good people doing good work trying to bring goodness into this world. And there's also an opportunity in education philanthropy to be that curious learner, You know, to be reading and learning and watching film or whatever it might be about the education landscape, what's happening in other parts of the world.

Greg Behr [00:08:24]:
And so we're always wondering, like, in this part of the world in which we're working, how might we make conditions ever better for kids and also the parents, families, caregivers in their lives? And so bearing witness to goodness, being able to support that goodness, and then the continuous learning about how we might support the good doers among us in the field of education. I'm just about the luckiest kid on planet Earth. Certainly the luckiest kid in Pittsburgh.

Liza Holland [00:08:51]:
Isn't that fantastic? Tell us a little bit more about the Grable Foundation.

Greg Behr [00:08:55]:
I love so first of all, led by incredibly generous And wonderful trustees, supported by a great staff. The Grable Foundation was created in 20th century. Eric Grable had been a businessman, ultimately, what became Alcoa. And, you know, in in so many ways, he's a rags-to-riches American story started as a pots and pans salesman and then came to invest in a company called Rubbermaid. Well, it wasn't called Rubbermaid at that time, but it became Rubbermaid. And it's that fortune from Rubbermaid that ultimately funded the foundation. Now Eric Grable passed away in the late 19 fifties. It was his wife, Minnie Grable, who lived until the early nineties who endowed the foundation and created it as a lasting gift to the children and families of the Pittsburgh region.

Greg Behr [00:09:45]:
And so we're focused on kids and learning, especially kids who for economic reasons don't have the same opportunities as their peers. And so the grant-making foci of the foundation range from early learning to enhanced learning in our public schools, Out of school time, which for us is after-school mentoring and summer learning. Those places where parents and families are learning together like Museums and libraries and parks and support for parents and families as they navigate the sometimes complexity Of the educational landscape. And so you think about kids and learning, I hope you'll think about the Grable Foundation and the incredible generosity and legacy of Eric and Minnie Grable.

Liza Holland [00:10:26]:
Well, the kids of Pittsburgh in the area are definitely benefiting from that generous spirit and whatnot. It's neat that you have that specific focus so you can show, hey. Look at what's happening in our community.

Greg Behr [00:10:39]:
And we get to learn from colleagues around the country. You know, whether it's the Patterson Foundation in Sarasota or the Skillman Foundation in Detroit or the McKnight Foundation in Minneapolis, Nellie Mae up in New England, the Rakes Foundation out in Seattle. There we definitely have cousins all across this country. Foundations doing amazing work in service to youth and the caring adults in their lives in geographies, you know, far field from Western Pennsylvania, and we learn from them all the time.

Liza Holland [00:11:10]:
That's such a wonderful thing, and I I feel like the education community is very much like that as well. And, so that kinda gives me the good segue into I am a a large admirer of yours and your podcast. Can you tell us a little bit about Remake Education?

Greg Behr [00:10:25]:
Yeah. So our podcast, which I cohost with Ryan Radzewski, he and I are coauthors of a book entitled When You Wonder You are Learning. We're both deeply involved in a learning network that we call Remake Learning in these parts of the world. So Remake Learning in brief, is a now 16-year-old network of more than 600 schools, museums, libraries, learning settings, after-school programs, campuses, all of which are focused on relevant, engaging, and equitable learning. It's an amazing learning ecosystem. We call it today an incredible learning network involving thousands of educators and their allies and partners in the field of education. And a number of years ago, I guess it must have been at the height of the pandemic as, you know, you and I and so many others were wrestling with ex What we were experiencing at the time, but also looking to ideally a more hopeful future into which I on my best days, I I hope we're living into. Like, what would it mean to remake the learning landscape in a way that's befitting of today's kids and supportive of their educators? And so among other things, Remake Learning launched the Remaking Tomorrow podcast.

Greg Behr [00:12:41]:
And so it's a sort of podcast you can find Wherever you find your podcast, if you just, were to search remaking tomorrow. And Ryan and I have now hosted, I think it's nearly 75 episodes With some of America and actually the world's most interesting and amazing educators. Folks like Kya Henderson, who was once chancellor of the DC public schools and is currently the CEO of Reconstruction dot US, an organization focused on unapologetically black learning for black learners. Right? But we've also had, superintendents. We've had Leaders of associations of museums across America. We've had authors like Todd Rose and Angela Duckworth And Emily Oster and others. It's just it's an incredible group of people whom Ryan and I have gotten to meet through the podcast and had some amazing conversations about the future of learning and how we might support our young people and the work that parents and families as well as educators might do to support our kids in the great ways that they already are and that we need to as we go forward.

Liza Holland [00:13:54]:
Well, listeners, I Highly recommend checking out remaking tomorrow because I had certainly learned a lot. Not only listening to guests, but also listening to you guys as hosts as well. So thank you so much, and that link is in the show notes if you happen to be on there.

Greg Behr [00:14:10]:
Thank you.

Liza Holland [00:14:11]:
So I would like to touch on one more thing before we get to your book. This ecosystem that you have developed with Remake Education, How do you connect that community? Are you like a convener? Do you have events? Or what is the communication system between that ecosystem like?

Greg Behr [00:13:53]:
Yeah. It's constant movement building. Right? So if we think back to how Remake Learning came together more than 16 years ago, It was over breakfast of pancakes and coffee with about a dozen people who themselves, some were teachers. There were folks who worked in museums and libraries. There are a few entrepreneurs and technologists. You know, sort of a complementary group of people who themselves cared about kids, cared about learning but had never worked together before. Right? And it was a sort of energizing breakfast that everyone at that table said, oh my gosh. I can think of 2 or 3 people that should be part of this conversation.

Greg Behr [00:15:09]:
Right? Like, as we're thinking about ex What is more learner centered? What is more future focused? How might we do better by kids in this region? And it's something that's snow snowballed such that, you know, today, as I mentioned, there are 1,000 thousands of teachers and administrators and designers and artists and technologists and makers and others who are involved in this network. All of it's supported by this incredible team that supports Remake Learning. And so we often talk about the five C's at Remake Learning, and I hope I get them right, Liza. I might get some. Right? So we talk about the communications. Right? The storytelling that brings narrative and commonality to, you know, a disparate group and yet Similarly situated group of people who are committed to relevant engaging app and learning. So communications, you know, from a website to a podcast to Films and video and audio and all sorts of things that contribute to storytelling. There's an incredible amount of convening, and there are working groups around STEM learning, around maker-centered learning, personalized learning, civic learning that bring together ranges of people From, you know, all types of learning organizations on subjects specific matter.

Greg Behr [00:16:26]:
There's great celebration. Every year, we celebrate Remake Learning Days, Which is a chance to engage parents, families, and caregivers in how learning is being remade, how to support their kids in their care if they're lit up by coding or art design or or other subject matter and then really how to build demand for parents, families, and caregivers in this work. So there's the convening and coordinating that happens through those working groups, but then also, you know, monthly meet ups and in person meetings and Zoom meetings and annual assemblies and conferences. And then catalyzing is the 5th c, grants that are made available sometimes in very small amounts of, like, 100 of dollars To sometimes tens of 1,000 of dollars that give permission and opportunity for people to work together in advancing developmentally appropriate And yet maybe, you know, slightly untested, you know, not yet developed like moonshots as we think about the types of things that we wanna be doing in our schools and museums, libraries, other sites of learning. And so that money, again, often distributed in what we call little bet amounts. You know, there's been 1,000,000 upon 1,000,000 of dollars distributed to educators and partners throughout the region to support relevant, engaging, and equitable learning experiences over Now 16 years.

Liza Holland [00:17:45]:
Boy, and 16 years, that is really something to aspire to because so often you get initiatives that have a lot of energy, and then it just kinda peters off and dies. And so you obviously have some great magic there to be able to keep that the momentum going in your region. That's wonderful.

Greg Behr [00:18:03]:
Well, and ideally, we keep people at the center. Right? I mean, this is ultimately about people trying to do good. And Western Pennsylvania is home To Fred Rogers. Right? He filmed that iconic Mister Rogers Neighborhood right here at WQED, America's 1st public television station Beginning back in 1968 and running the next few decades well, next 4 decades. And we often say that the people involved in roommate learning, in many ways employing the Fred method. Now we didn't use phrases like whole child and learning sciences during Fred Rogers' lifetime. But, essentially, today's great educators, today's great technologists, and others are employing everything that we're learning about whole child development in terms of academic, social, and emotional growth that every child needs and deserves coupled with all of that we're learning about learning itself. Right.

Greg Behr [00:19:00]:
The learning sciences. So whole child plus learning sciences equals the Fred method. And there's a wonderful Fredness. There's a, you know, wonderful humanity and, you know, a core sense of love in this work of Remake Learning. And it's that love, I think, that Fredness That keeps it going.

Liza Holland [00:18:59]:
Well, that's probably the birthplace then of When You Wonder You're Learning. Tell us about your book.

Greg Behr [00:19:24]:
Yeah. That's right. This network, this landscape that we call Remake Learning in so many ways is the springboard for this book that I coauthored with Ryan Rieszewski. So When you wonder your learning, since you can find ideally at your local bookstore or Barnes and Noble, certainly on Amazon, wherever you buy your books. It's a book that reintroduces us to Fred Rogers, but in some unexpected ways. We're reminded of the emotional connection that we had to Mister Rogers that So many generations of Americans had and still have. Right? We still have deep feelings, many of us, about Mister Rogers. And we present Mister Rogers as a learning scientist who is decades ahead of his time.

Greg Behr [00:20:03]:
You know, Liza, I know you know well. If we look The literature from places like MIT or Stanford or right here in our own backyard at the University of Pittsburgh or Carnegie Mellon University. And as we read about how great learning happens and the types of things that we need to be doing for kids, well, the evidence is now bearing forward what Fred did all of those years ago. So, you know, here as we sit in 2024 and beyond, Surprise, surprise. The blueprints for the future of learning for America really rests in the incredible work ex of Fred Rogers and what he did in Mister Rogers' Neighborhood all of those years ago. And so we make that emotional connection between what Fred did, But then demonstrate how that's a path for what we need to be doing in our schools, at home, in our neighborhoods to create, You know, environments that are full with connection and curiosity and creativity and genuine wonder to support the development of kids and their futures in ways that they want, need, and deserve.

Liza Holland [00:21:11]:
Well, you are so right about Fred Rogers, and there's a reason he captured all of our imaginations as little kids just totally ready to sit down, and he brought the real world in. He brought the fantasy world in. He brought so many wonderful things to learning that we may do okay with our little ones, but we by the time they get To high school, we've sort of beaten that out of them, and we need to fix that. Absolutely need to fix that.

Greg Behr [00:21:36]:
And you're absolutely right about Fred. Right? And the incredible thing now as adults Looking back at what Fred did is that it wasn't by accident. And it wasn't even just good design. He was actually incredibly deliberate and intentional about everything on that show. Who we met, the wardrobe he wore, the lyrics, the puppetry, everything. And Incredibly, it was all grounded in science. This is the really interesting part of Fred's story is how we ended up at a place called Arsenal Family and Children's Center. It's a family center that still operates in the east end of Pittsburgh.

Greg Behr [00:22:10]:
And at the time, he'd been enrolled at at the Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, he was studying at the University of Pittsburgh, and he decided that he wanted to use this newfangled technology of TV of kids To, as he said, minister to kids. Yeah. Minister to children. Right? Because he recognized how that technology was so attractive to kids. Like, think today of the the devices, the software, the opportunities in kids' lives. Right? Akin to television. And Fred ended up At this place called Arsenal Family and Children's Center where there have there was a remarkable happenstance, Liza, of 20th century psychologists and psychiatrists, pediatricians. There are folks like doctor Benjamin Spock, Eric Erickson, maybe most importantly, Margaret McFarland who became Fred's lifelong mentor and dear friend.

Greg Behr [00:22:54]:
So Studying at this place where there in retrospect was a Mount Rushmore of 20th century people working in the field of child development theory and practice. He took all of that and in ways that are entirely seamless to us, blended it into that program. And with today's eyes, we can look back and see what Fred did, which enables us to look forward to see what we need to do for today's kids. That's the FRED method.

Liza Holland [00:23:21]:
To some extent, I think we need to get back to some of the things that he really put forward for sure. Did you ever get an opportunity to meet him?

Greg Behr [00:23:20]:
I did. So one of the great joys in my life is that I met Fred Rogers. Living in Pittsburgh, it's incredible the stories that people have because he was one of us. Right? And I also, during the for the last few decades of her life, got to know Joanne Rogers, Missus Rogers, his wife. In fact, Joanne wrote the forward to our book. It's probably one of the last things she did on planet Earth before she passed. And I remember Liza week so I remember calling Joanne When we were thinking about this book. Right? And we're like, oh, we're thinking about this book and representing Fred Rogers as a learning scientist, and here's how we're proposing to do it.

Greg Behr [00:24:05]:
She loved it. She was so amazing. I mean, Joanne was the she could give you a hug through a telephone. It was amazing. But what she did say was ex Make sure you present him as a human being. Right? Like, his work is accessible. His work is a blueprint for us. But if you present him as a saint, It won't be.

Greg Behr [00:24:23]:
And here's the thing. He wasn't a saint. Like, the guy got mad. The guy got angry. He was just like you and me. And so we always took that deep to heart from Joanne. And then also people that worked with Fred, whether it's someone like Bill Eisler or head of sheriff, so many others, David Newell and others who worked with Fred with whom we've gotten to interact and connect and and really understand the neighborhood and how it worked. And, you know, we call it the Fred method, but it in so many ways, it was like the Fred village method because it was all of those people and others who contributed to the neighborhood, Which was at the core ethos of the neighborhood itself, to be sure.

Liza Holland [00:25:01]:
You know, one of the things that I was thinking about that as I was starting to read your book, I haven't had the luxury

Liza Holland [00:24:04]:
of getting to read it all yet, but just the memories that I personally have here, you know, decades later. And one of the things that I loved was his ability to talk to kids about it's okay to fail. It's okay to make a mistake. It's okay to, you know, to to try again. And that's something that I just really feel like we should infuse back Into our teaching because this whole fanatical test score get let's gotta get an A thing is causing a ton of anxiety out there.

Greg Behr [00:25:41]:
Yeah. He Liza, you're so right. He in that program, you know, and he often talked about 1 little buckaroo on the other side of the screen. He conveyed and created an environment of psychological safety

Liza Holland [00:25:53]:
Yes.

Greg Behr [00:25:39]:
Which is what kids need. Kids need to know that they're safe and that it's okay to ask questions. It's good to wonder that they have caring adults around them who are going to support them. And you know and your listeners likely know that at the core of every single one of those programs was the sensibility that I like you just the way you are. Right. Now importantly, when Fred said that, he wasn't saying, like, hey. everything that you do is great or, like, everything that you do is is okay. Ex What he was saying was, I see you, I recognize you, and I refuse to reject the humanity that you bring to planet Earth.

Greg Behr [00:26:31]:
Right? I like just the way you are. And that conveyed confidence and safety and warmth and welcoming For learners, which is what every learner in every classroom and every library and in every home and in every neighborhood and every bus stop, We all need that.

Liza Holland [00:26:49]:
And every employee in every organization and all the way through our society. Absolutely. So incredibly powerful.

Greg Behr [00:26:58]:
You're so right, Liza. I mean, it's not we're not just talking about our our our young people or our teens. We are talking about people and humanity. Right? That's been a surprise for me and Ryan as we've had the incredible privilege to travel around the country and to talk about this book. How often in ways that were initially unexpected to us, people would come up and say, there was something incredibly healing about reading Fred about Fred in this way. And it's a reminder that I mean, it goes back to the early part of our conversation. Learning isn't limited to our young people. Learning is is something that's ideally positively and constructively contagious for us all.

Liza Holland [00:27:40]:
Absolutely. So we've talked a lot about the amazing great stuff that's been happening, but education is not an easy boat to turn. Tell us about what the biggest challenges that you've faced in doing this work have been.

Greg Behr [00:26:29]:
Impatience. That's my own challenge. Right? Yep. And because and I think I became more impatient when I became a parent because you just feel and smell and taste and touch very personally how a kid gets 1 shot At 1st grade, 1 shot at 2nd grade, 1 shot at 11th grade. And then you start to see Your kids and other kids in every community. Right? And it it somehow parenthood, you know, or it could be your nephews or nieces or your neighborhood kids. Like, it comes so personal, and so you become incredibly impatient. And yet, I'm someone who also deeply believes that systemic change, whether it's in our school systems or in our learning landscapes generally, doesn't happen in grand moments.

Greg Behr [00:28:46]:
It's not like, and now we shall let no child be left behind. Right? It's, you know, whatever the aspiration is, like, now we land on the moon. You need those moonshots. But the thing that we've learned in the course of the collective efforts of Remake Learning in this part of the world is that systemic change actually happens in dozens and hundreds, even thousands of little bets.

Liza Holland [00:29:12]:
Yep.

Greg Behr [00:29:12]:
Little bets made by real people in real learning places, and it's the compilation of all of those little bets that actually yield systemic change, actually yields the culture, The mindset, the expectations that deliver the results our kids need.

Liza Holland [00:29:30]:
I'm so glad you talked about that because that is so very, very true, especially change that's going to be sustainable. Yeah. All those little bets, those little wins, that's fantastic.

Greg Behr [00:29:10]:
It's gotta be sticky. And I will add to that something I'd said earlier. All of the work of reform or innovation or whatever word we wanna use. Honestly, we'll be completely faddish and passing unless parents, families, and caregivers Genuinely value it. And so in the work of education, we have to find ways to build allyship, genuine allyship and partnership with our parents and caregivers.

Liza Holland [00:30:06]:
And I feel like even our business and industry and, you know, nonprofits and all that other kind of thing too. It it's a societal thing. It's not something that is done in isolation. If we wanna live in that wonderful, You know, positive economic, helpful, supportive world. It's gotta take all of us. It's that whole it takes a village thing. Yeah.

Greg Behr [00:30:30]:
Yeah. You're absolutely right, Liza. It's the neighborhood. Right? Mister Rogers built a neighborhood. Mister Rogers built a neighborhood.

Liza Holland [00:30:29]:
Oh, man. Yes. That is a perfect way to bring that back around. So final question. What would you like for decision-makers to know? Ex and that could be at whatever level you can choose.

Greg Behr [00:30:49]:
Oh, it's a great 2 things. I'm hopeful I know this myself. But others whether they consider themselves little or big decision-makers. I hope there's deep appreciation for educators and who they are and what they do. You know, we get into this narrative sometimes that our schools haven't changed since the industrial age. And I can't imagine a profession that's been more deft, more attentive to its own craft, more flexible, than has the teaching profession. And so I would want policymakers, decision-makers, administrators, board members, whomever, to deeply appreciate the teaching profession itself and what teachers do. And then My second hope would be that we think seriously and deliberately, you know, maybe inspired by Mister Rogers about what joy and love actually look like and feel like and what we experience when we experience joy and love in our schools and how we can make sure That it's just embedded in everything that we do because as Fred taught us so well, learning and love are linked.

Greg Behr [00:32:01]:
There will never, can never, won't ever be great or good learning, absent genuine love and caring.

Liza Holland [00:32:09]:
What a fantastic way to end this marvelous conversation. Thank you so very much for taking the time to be with us today.

Greg Behr [00:32:16]:
Liza, thank you, and and thank you for what you do with this podcast. I'm grateful.

Liza Holland [00:32:21]:
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of education perspectives. Feel free to share your thoughts on our Facebook page. Let us know which education perspectives you would like to hear or share. Please subscribe and share with your friends.